Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Home and the Holidays (Pt. 2) | Ep. 56

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Home and the Holidays (Pt. 2) | Ep. 56 · The Parenting Podcast

• 1:06
  Christie: So since last week when we were reminiscing and going through all the holiday memories, I was thinking of this story that happened, just after I had my second daughter.
• 1:17
  Christie: So she was two weeks old because she was a December birthday, two weeks old on on Christmas.
• 1:22
  Christie: That, that's so hard.
• 1:22
  Christie: And we had been at my grandparents having Christmas and at my grand.
• 1:26
  Christie: The presents were hip high.
• 1:28
  Christie: There were 15 or so of us opening presents all at once.
• 1:32
  Christie: Oh yeah.
• 1:32
  Christie: Paper throwing everywhere.
• 1:34
  Christie: And so it was a little chaotic.
• 1:36
  Christie: Well, I get home after, you know, two months postpartum and a two year old in tow through all of that.
• 1:41
  Christie: And I get home and my grandma calls me and she says, I didn't get to see you open your necklace.
• 1:48
  Christie: And I said, oh, Christy Necklace.
• 1:50
  Christie: I don't remember opening a necklace.
• 1:52
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:53
  Christie: So I'm thinking through everything I opened and she said, Christie, I got you a necklace.
• 1:58
  Christie: Oh.
• 1:58
  Christie: And you didn't open it?
• 1:59
  Christie: And she said, I bet it's in that garbage, all the garbage bags.
• 2:02
  Christie: Oh my gosh.
• 2:03
  Christie: So my husband went over, you know, I'm still there.
• 2:06
  Christie: Exhaust.
• 2:07
  Christie: Stood with a nursing baby and a two year old.
• 2:09
  Christie: So I stayed home and he went over and they dug and Doug and dug and finally found what was my necklace, which was when I was three, my family had gone to Hawaii and gone to one of those places where you could open your own oyster, Uhhuh and get your pearl out.
• 2:22
  Christie: Well, she had saved it all these years, and I would've been 21 that year.
• 2:27
  Christie: And had a little necklace made out of it, and I still wear it pretty much every day because it was so sweet.
• 2:32
  Christie: It was the necklace, it almost wasn't, you know?
• 2:34
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:35
  Christie: But yeah, a lot of fun, but could have been a sad ending to that story.
• 2:40
  Cheryl: I'm glad you found it.
• 2:41
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 2:42
  Cheryl: Well, because we've done that.
• 2:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:44
  Cheryl: And we never found things.
• 2:45
  Cheryl: There were some things Right.
• 2:46
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:47
  Christie: Or sometimes you forget about a gift and you find it months later and maybe you didn't even know.
• 2:51
  Christie: Right.
• 2:52
  Christie: That's right.
• 2:53
  Cheryl: You know, that's an apt introduction because like you said, we talked about the lighter side.
• 2:58
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:59
  Cheryl: to the holidays last episode and so today we're kind of look at.
• 3:03
  Cheryl: what is hard, right?
• 3:04
  Cheryl: Because there is just this weight.
• 3:07
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 3:07
  Cheryl: that overlays and shadow that undercurrent in the holidays.
• 3:13
  Cheryl: So to address that.
• 3:14
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 3:15
  Cheryl: And so my question to all's, what is there that's hard about the holidays, right?
• 3:20
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:20
  Cheryl: Because there's supposed to be this wonderful hallmark, the most wonderful time of the year, right?
• 3:26
  Cheryl: There you go.
• 3:27
  Cheryl: All the songs, Right?
• 3:29
  Cheryl: You know, it's a wonderful life.
• 3:30
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 3:31
  Christie: Everything but the problem.
• 3:33
  Christie: you can't reschedule the holidays.
• 3:35
  Christie: They happen right smack dab in the middle of real life.
• 3:38
  Christie: Yes.
• 3:38
  Christie: And that that's what you know, I think we talked about last week, the quote I had heard about holidays being an amplifier of anything that's already going on, the good and the bad, and so since they just kind of come ready or not, then here they are in the midst of grief and loss.
• 3:57
  Christie: financial problems Yeah
• 3:58
  Cheryl: I think they're all kinds of grief..
• 4:01
  Cheryl: Uh, well, Christie, you and I were some friends last night at a little Christmas party.
• 4:06
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 4:06
  Cheryl: and all of them are going through some sort of grief.
• 4:09
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 4:10
  Cheryl: particularly in this case, some of it was illness.
• 4:13
  Cheryl: Uh, one of'em are husband's declining.
• 4:16
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 4:18
  Cheryl: You having lost your dad and mm-hmm.
• 4:20
  Cheryl: just the amplifier.
• 4:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:23
  Cheryl: Amidst all the color and jazz and songs.
• 4:26
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 4:26
  Christie: and there's lots of kinds of grief and loss.
• 4:29
  Christie: Yeah.
• 4:29
  Christie: You know, my, my dad's no longer with us, and this will be our first Christmas without him.
• 4:33
  Christie: Right.
• 4:34
  Christie: My daughter lives.
• 4:35
  Christie: In another state, and this will be our first Christmas without one of our kids around.
• 4:39
  Christie: You know, a different reason.
• 4:41
  Christie: But it's still a missing spot.
• 4:43
  Christie: And so there's just a variety of kinds of grief that are magnified during this time.
• 4:49
  Christie: Yes.
• 4:49
  Cheryl: And you know, there's a big definition to grief.
• 4:52
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 4:53
  Cheryl: and there are a lot of things I realized.
• 4:56
  Cheryl: I'm grieving the loss of that.
• 4:58
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:58
  Cheryl: It doesn't have to do with a funeral.
• 5:00
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 5:00
  Cheryl: And you just mentioned living other places.
• 5:02
  Cheryl: So my son and his family live in India.
• 5:04
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 5:05
  Cheryl: And so they're just not here.
• 5:08
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 5:08
  Cheryl: And that's about a third of the people of our family.
• 5:11
  Cheryl: Right.
• 5:11
  Cheryl: And
• 5:11
  Ellen: And well half your grandkids.
• 5:13
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:13
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 5:14
  Cheryl: And then as they grow up and move on.
• 5:16
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 5:17
  Cheryl: well, we're spending this Christmas with the in-laws and mm-hmm.
• 5:21
  Cheryl: It's change.
• 5:21
  Cheryl: Change, yeah.
• 5:22
  Cheryl: Change is also hard during the holidays.
• 5:25
  Christie: Yeah, because we love our traditions and we had a fun time talking about that last week.
• 5:29
  Christie: And they definitely serve a purpose in our lives.
• 5:33
  Christie: I think, you know, traditions are meant to unite us and refocus us on our values but it can be hard when those traditions can't be carried out the way that you want.
• 5:44
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 5:44
  Christie: Yeah And
• 5:45
  Ellen: if you look through time, you can see that.
• 5:49
  Ellen: the holiday Christmas season has become so much more intense.
• 5:53
  Ellen: Yes, yes.
• 5:53
  Ellen: It starts earlier.
• 5:55
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 5:55
  Ellen: I mean, I remember when I was a child two weeks before Christmas, you were excited.
• 6:00
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 6:00
  Ellen: Wow.
• 6:00
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 6:00
  Ellen: Because maybe your tree went up and things like that.
• 6:03
  Ellen: But now, I went two months before, I mean sometimes I'm actually tired of Christmas music by the time Christmas come.
• 6:09
  Ellen: Nice Yes.
• 6:10
  Ellen: Everywhere you go.
• 6:11
  Ellen: In fact, I got.
• 6:12
  Ellen: Somewhere and it was right before Thanksgiving and I was like, no, you can't start Christmas music yet.
• 6:18
  Ellen: It's too
• 6:18
  Christie: soon.
• 6:19
  Christie: Right.
• 6:19
  Christie: You know Well, I love Christmas music, but yes, I agree.
• 6:23
  Christie: And the same Christmas music.
• 6:24
  Christie: I need some new, could we, whoever, who do we talk to about that?
• 6:27
  Christie: Yes, that's right.
• 6:28
  Ellen: who's the creator
• 6:29
  Christie: of a good news
• 6:30
  Cheryl: song.
• 6:30
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 6:31
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 6:31
  Christie: but I think we're all longing for that joy, and excitement.
• 6:36
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:37
  Christie: Especially, you know, coming out of a couple of years of not being able to have all of those things.
• 6:41
  Christie: Yes.
• 6:41
  Christie: But the flip side of that is what if you aren't feeling it?
• 6:45
  Christie: Right?
• 6:45
  Christie: You know it's, if it's not coming naturally and you're trying to muster it up, it can be draining.
• 6:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:52
  Christie: And it can heighten the disappointment.
• 6:53
  Christie: Yes, that's
• 6:54
  Ellen: very true.
• 6:55
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 6:55
  Ellen: Cuz holidays are the one time we want to keep traditions.
• 6:59
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 6:59
  Ellen: We can let a lot of other things go, but there's just something about the continuity of, every year we do this.
• 7:05
  Ellen: Every year we eat this, you know.
• 7:07
  Ellen: The same stockings or whatever, however you celebrate the holidays, you know, the same Hanukkah, bush, whatever.
• 7:14
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 7:15
  Ellen: whatever that would be.
• 7:16
  Ellen: And so, That's something that we all look forward to, but I just see it all the time.
• 7:22
  Ellen: It's just become so complicated when I was doing Christmas, when I was younger.
• 7:27
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 7:27
  Ellen: we tried to keep it simple, but now you're just bombarded all the time.
• 7:31
  Christie: And you know, I think another layer of complication is, That we are all a lot of individuals trying to do one thing together.
• 7:40
  Christie: Yeah.
• 7:40
  Christie: You know, the other day one of my girls was crying about missing her papa and saying, we haven't really even talked about Christmas, and you know, when we have, but.
• 7:52
  Christie: For her, it was, you know, she just needed to talk about it and, and understand like, what are we doing different?
• 7:58
  Christie: How are we gonna navigate?
• 8:00
  Christie: And, and just have a place to talk about it.
• 8:02
  Christie: And it's tricky because I don't bring it up because I don't wanna make her sad and she doesn't bring it up cuz she doesn't wanna make me sad.
• 8:08
  Christie: And yeah, I'm like, well, we're sad anyway, so let's just talk about it.
• 8:11
  Christie: And you know, I don't always know how to help them navigate through grief because I don't always know how to navigate through grief.
• 8:19
  Cheryl: you are talking about my life?
• 8:20
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 8:21
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 8:21
  Cheryl: For the last 20 something years.
• 8:22
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 8:23
  Cheryl: And it is tricky because.
• 8:26
  Cheryl: I didn't want to act like Bill's gone and he has nothing in our lives.
• 8:31
  Cheryl: Yeah, right.
• 8:31
  Cheryl: But then if you bring it up, it makes everybody sad.
• 8:34
  Cheryl: Right.
• 8:35
  Cheryl: So I understand that just is so horrible because you talk about the empty chair, Ellen, right?
• 8:42
  Cheryl: you know, there's suddenly this gaping, empty chair, and then we go back to all, we always
• 8:47
  Ellen: did it this way.
• 8:48
  Ellen: Do you hang that person stock at stock?
• 8:50
  Ellen: That's gone.
• 8:51
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 8:52
  Ellen: you know those are those things that can change every year.
• 8:55
  Ellen: Maybe a little farther down the road.
• 8:57
  Ellen: You don't mm-hmm.
• 8:58
  Ellen: But in the beginning you feel bad if you don't or you do and Well, and what happens
• 9:03
  Christie: when some do want to and some don't want to.
• 9:06
  Cheryl: That's what I was saying.
• 9:06
  Cheryl: My dilemma.
• 9:08
  Cheryl: part of my children were comforted.
• 9:10
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 9:11
  Cheryl: Right.
• 9:11
  Cheryl: By talking about it and bringing Bill into it.
• 9:14
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:14
  Cheryl: and some of the others waited and later on they said, mom, I know what you're trying to do, but every time you mentioned it, it just amplified.
• 9:22
  Cheryl: Right.
• 9:23
  Cheryl: Loss, loss, loss.
• 9:25
  Cheryl: Here's something else you lost.
• 9:26
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:27
  Cheryl: So I, I don't know an answer, but it is hard.
• 9:30
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:30
  Cheryl: I like the talking about it.
• 9:33
  Cheryl: you're
• 9:33
  Christie: trying to keep it like this.
• 9:34
  Ellen: Well, I mean, grief is one of those difficult things because everybody grieves differently.
• 9:39
  Ellen: They're triggered by different things whether, if it's a grief from an actual physical loss of a parent or a child or a divorce, or just you're in a different place financially, all those losses add up and they seem amplified.
• 9:54
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 9:54
  Ellen: during the holiday.
• 9:56
  Ellen: because we kind of think it's supposed to look like it's a wonderful life.
• 10:01
  Ellen: Yeah, true.
• 10:02
  Ellen: You know, that's the, I think for most Westerners, that's the image we have in our mind is what cinema has created for us.
• 10:09
  Ellen: Right.
• 10:09
  Ellen: On how the holidays should
• 10:10
  Christie: look or even what we create for ourselves.
• 10:13
  Christie: Comparing to past experiences.
• 10:16
  Christie: Yes.
• 10:16
  Christie: How we grew up, or how it used to be.
• 10:18
  Christie: Yes.
• 10:18
  Christie: Or what we want it to be.
• 10:20
  Christie: Yes.
• 10:20
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:21
  Christie: Expectations not being met for whatever reason.
• 10:24
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 10:24
  Cheryl: I mean, you said the big words, expectations and comparisons.
• 10:27
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 10:27
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:28
  Cheryl: and you're right, I think of us at the table here, but also a lot of the people I know and our listeners, some.
• 10:35
  Cheryl: F, myself included, are grieving because we've lost what we used to have.
• 10:41
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:41
  Cheryl: I loved what our Christmases and our holidays were like.
• 10:44
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:45
  Cheryl: I love it.
• 10:45
  Cheryl: And it's just hard not to slam the door and say, let's not do anything.
• 10:50
  Cheryl: Right, right.
• 10:51
  Cheryl: But then I know people that they never had what they wanted for Christmas, and so they're trying hard to capture something because they didn't have it.
• 11:00
  Cheryl: And I have a friend that's recently divorced, and so her world has.
• 11:06
  Cheryl: Absolutely exploded.
• 11:08
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:08
  Cheryl: Because now she goes into the holiday and every other year she doesn't even have her children.
• 11:14
  Cheryl: Right.
• 11:15
  Cheryl: Yeah, that's true.
• 11:15
  Cheryl: So there there is a lot of grief and loss and pain.
• 11:20
  Cheryl: Well, and even
• 11:21
  Christie: if your circumstances appear to be lovely, I remember when my girls were young and you talk about striving for something to be mm-hmm.
• 11:30
  Christie: I remember being so discouraged because, I had the matching dresses, I had the right hair bows, I had all the, you know, everything.
• 11:36
  Christie: But you don't know what it temper tantrums, it took to get the bow and you know, get there on the right time and have the right gifts and, and so the.
• 11:45
  Christie: emptiness behind it because that wasn't what was supposed to meet that need.
• 11:50
  Christie: You know, the, the matching dresses just don't bring the joy.
• 11:52
  Christie: You think they will when there's temper tantrums and she potties on her clothes that you spent hours searching for That's
• 11:58
  Cheryl: really good.
• 11:59
  Cheryl: maybe what you said they'll meet that need.
• 12:02
  Cheryl: Hmm.
• 12:03
  Cheryl: the holidays exist, but it's as if we're expecting something from the holidays that as if it's an entity that's going to bring something to us.
• 12:15
  Cheryl: You know, because it, it isn't all of that.
• 12:18
  Cheryl: You had this deep need in your heart mm-hmm.
• 12:20
  Cheryl: that you wanted fulfilled for yourself and your children.
• 12:24
  Cheryl: Right.
• 12:25
  Cheryl: And you're expecting stuff or a celebration to fill that.
• 12:29
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:30
  Christie: And it would put so much pressure.
• 12:32
  Christie: I mean, I don't know that my kids always felt the pressure, but I was putting too much pressure on my kids to accommodate my dream come true.
• 12:40
  Christie: You know, that I really wanted to have, and.
• 12:43
  Christie: I know I, I've talked to enough young moms to know it's not, I'm not alone in that.
• 12:47
  Ellen: Well, I mean, the holidays are the highest time for depression Yeah.
• 12:52
  Ellen: For suicide and things like that.
• 12:54
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 12:54
  Ellen: They, because it just brings up everything that people feel is lacking.
• 12:59
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 13:00
  Ellen: because of that, and most people have post holiday depression.
• 13:04
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 13:04
  Ellen: you know, you get done with these big events, especially as women, we've been working towards getting everything perfect and then it's over.
• 13:12
  Ellen: I mean, how fast can people eat?
• 13:14
  Ellen: Right.
• 13:14
  Ellen: That took me three days.
• 13:16
  Ellen: Right.
• 13:16
  Ellen: It's gone in an hour.
• 13:18
  Christie: Right.
• 13:19
  Cheryl: Well, and what you're talking about is the lie.
• 13:23
  Cheryl: That we carry that it does need to be Hallmark.
• 13:26
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:27
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:27
  Cheryl: You know?
• 13:27
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: and if we just do enough or tweak it or gift right.
• 13:32
  Cheryl: Or something.
• 13:33
  Cheryl: Right.
• 13:34
  Cheryl: And.
• 13:35
  Cheryl: It's so hard cuz the comparison because I really did make having fun and being with my family and with the kids the priority.
• 13:43
  Cheryl: But to invest in all of that, I didn't have time to do the fancy things that you do or to make individually wrapped hard candies.
• 13:51
  Cheryl: So then that comparison would bring such a burden to me cuz, oh, I'm not doing that.
• 13:57
  Cheryl: It didn't make all of their dresses.
• 13:59
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:00
  Cheryl: and I didn't.
• 14:00
  Cheryl: You know?
• 14:01
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:01
  Cheryl: just the lie that if we do more or better or different, it's gonna heal or fix that thing inside.
• 14:09
  Cheryl: Right?
• 14:09
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 14:10
  Ellen: And it's hard too because, um, you know, it is a fun time and it is the one time where you can kind of, you know, decorate your house in a very gaudy way.
• 14:21
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 14:21
  Ellen: with things you normally wouldn't have in your house.
• 14:23
  Ellen: And, you know, there's just all the, I use the term loosely magical kind of feeling once mm-hmm.
• 14:29
  Ellen: right.
• 14:29
  Ellen: You've set the stage, it's the setting of the stage that's hard.
• 14:32
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 14:33
  Ellen: I mean, we're now at the place where we have grandchildren, so, It's so much fun to watch my grandchildren come in and be very excited about how our house looks.
• 14:42
  Ellen: Cuz it's kind of funny.
• 14:43
  Ellen: My kids don't, and I've told my girls not to do as much as I did when they became adults and
• 14:48
  Cheryl: got married.
• 14:49
  Cheryl: Nobody can do as much as you do
• 14:52
  Ellen: but you know, so for the kids to come to my house, it's like, oh, you came to Santa, this building Santa's
• 14:59
  Cheryl: land.
• 14:59
  Christie: Yeah.
• 14:59
  Christie: Which is a lot of pressure now on you to keep that up year after year.
• 15:03
  Christie: Yes, and to be in the mood to do it and.
• 15:05
  Christie: And I don't think, you know, we all have different roles in our families.
• 15:09
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:09
  Christie: And if you're in the role of being the pace keep, of bringing the atmosphere, bringing the mood and scheduling, oh, my scheduling is the thorn to my side right now of getting everyone's schedules coordinated.
• 15:22
  Christie: It can just feel a lot less fun.
• 15:25
  Christie: Well, and I
• 15:26
  Ellen: realized, you know, having a big family, you know, But there's just.
• 15:30
  Ellen: Christmas is made for, you know, chaos.
• 15:33
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 15:34
  Christie: That's good.
• 15:34
  Christie: I love that we put that on a t-shirt, but
• 15:36
  it
• 15:36
  Ellen: is exhausting.
• 15:38
  Ellen: But then I, I know, even though I'll kind of gripe for a couple days while I'm getting everything done, when I'm done, I can sit back and go, oh good.
• 15:46
  Ellen: It's.
• 15:47
  Ellen: It's what I wanted.
• 15:48
  Ellen: It's not too crazy.
• 15:49
  Ellen: Right.
• 15:49
  Ellen: So
• 15:50
  Christie: because there's a payoff in the end.
• 15:51
  Christie: Yes.
• 15:52
  Christie: And yeah.
• 15:52
  Christie: And a lot of it's the payoff
• 15:53
  Ellen: for me.
• 15:54
  Ellen: Actually, once I get the work done, I'm actually can sit back.
• 15:57
  Ellen: Yes.
• 15:57
  Ellen: And enjoy this same here and go, oh, this is really fun.
• 16:00
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 16:00
  Ellen: nice to turn the light out and have the tree on and have some Christmas music in the back and be
• 16:06
  Christie: sipping hot cocoa.
• 16:07
  Christie: Yes, I agree.
• 16:09
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 16:09
  Cheryl: So we just talked about, some of the things that make holidays kind of hard.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:14
  Cheryl: And to be realistic, so we don't wanna just leave it there.
• 16:18
  Cheryl: What would y'all say, what could we bring to the conversation here about what to do when it is hard?
• 16:26
  Cheryl: What would we do?
• 16:28
  Ellen: Well, I think that Christmas should always, I mean, we just spent a minute or two talking about stuff, but I think Christmas really should be about others.
• 16:35
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 16:36
  Ellen: And finding ways.
• 16:39
  Ellen: I mean, we were fortunate.
• 16:40
  Ellen: We always had some kind of charity we always participated in.
• 16:45
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 16:45
  Ellen: So our kids grew up, you know, passing out gifts to other kids.
• 16:50
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 16:50
  Ellen: or doing things for other people.
• 16:52
  Ellen: So that was just part of.
• 16:54
  Ellen: Christmas, um, tradition.
• 16:56
  Ellen: And so no matter where we lived, we always had something we could give to mm-hmm.
• 17:01
  Ellen: And it gave the kids that idea that Oh yeah, yeah, we, it's not just about us.
• 17:05
  Ellen: And we didn't put a lot of emphasis on gifts.
• 17:09
  Ellen: For a while it was financial, but then when it wasn't financial, we had already set that structure up so we didn't have this massive gift thing we had to do.
• 17:18
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 17:19
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 17:19
  Ellen: We always kept it simple and gift giving.
• 17:21
  Ellen: And I'm happy that my kids have done the same thing.
• 17:23
  Ellen: They do that with their children.
• 17:24
  Ellen: cuz then it's not as distracting.
• 17:26
  Ellen: You're not in debt after Christmas.
• 17:28
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 17:29
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 17:29
  Ellen: You know, and you don.
• 17:30
  Ellen: broken toys sitting in a pile that the child doesn't even care about
• 17:33
  Christie: anymore.
• 17:33
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 17:34
  Christie: That's really good.
• 17:34
  Christie: Ellen, I like the idea of, um, cultivating that gratefulness in your heart.
• 17:39
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:39
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 17:40
  Christie: and it kind of brings some balance to the discontentment of whatever hard things might be going on.
• 17:45
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:45
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 17:45
  Christie: and, um mm-hmm.
• 17:47
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:47
  Christie: Just recentering
• 17:48
  Cheryl: yourself.
• 17:48
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:48
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 17:49
  Cheryl: one of the things I would say, the phrase is not the.
• 17:53
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 17:54
  Cheryl: has been hard for me and for my family.
• 17:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 17:57
  Cheryl: because it's really hard to go, well, this is not the same mm-hmm.
• 17:59
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:00
  Cheryl: So intentionally trying to create new yeah.
• 18:02
  Cheryl: To add new, different, uh, traditions or whatever.
• 18:07
  Cheryl: And we mentioned the last episode, like creating Christmas, Adam.
• 18:10
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:11
  Cheryl: But seriously, that's one of the things we were trying to do is mm-hmm.
• 18:15
  Cheryl: right?
• 18:15
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 18:15
  Cheryl: It can't be the same.
• 18:17
  Cheryl: So what new things can we do?
• 18:19
  Cheryl: And now of course our kids are older, but we.
• 18:24
  Cheryl: Have now all gone to doing stockings for one another.
• 18:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:28
  Cheryl: And so instead of the kids rushing in and the stockings are full mm-hmm.
• 18:32
  Cheryl: now everybody comes on Christmas morning and we put stuff in everybody else's stocking.
• 18:38
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:38
  Cheryl: So it's a new thing that Yeah.
• 18:40
  Cheryl: Even the other adults, all the married people, everybody who's there has a full stocking that everybody's contributed to.
• 18:47
  Cheryl: That's
• 18:47
  Christie: great.
• 18:47
  Christie: So I think.
• 18:48
  Christie: you're taking what?
• 18:50
  Christie: The meaning behind whatever the traditions that are gone.
• 18:53
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:53
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:53
  Christie: Were, and finding a new way to get to the heart of it rather than the actual tradition.
• 18:58
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:59
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:59
  Christie: That's really good.
• 19:00
  Christie: And,
• 19:00
  Cheryl: and We've had to evolve.
• 19:02
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 19:02
  Cheryl: that's what I would say.
• 19:02
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 19:03
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 19:03
  Cheryl: is to be openhanded that we'll be evolving to keep people and the meaningful love of it up front and evolve and.
• 19:13
  Cheryl: Think about other people that don't have anybody at home or mm-hmm.
• 19:18
  Cheryl: are in need to reach out.
• 19:21
  Cheryl: All of that.
• 19:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 19:22
  Cheryl: Helps.
• 19:23
  Cheryl: To quit being so self-centered.
• 19:25
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:25
  Christie: That's really good.
• 19:26
  Christie: I think one thing I'm learning right now and working on, I, I tend to have an avoidant personality.
• 19:33
  Christie: I just wanna focus on the fun and the Yeah.
• 19:35
  Christie: You know, toxic optimism is what one of my kids said, But, It's just not as healthy as I would like for it to be.
• 19:43
  Christie: So I think I'm learning to just acknowledge and accept that sometimes things are hard.
• 19:50
  Christie: Right.
• 19:50
  Christie: You know, and just to, uh, validate that in, in your own circumstance and say it's okay that this is hard.
• 19:57
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:57
  Christie: It's okay that I put up my tree, but the rest of the decorations came down from the attic and I told.
• 20:03
  Christie: I don't wanna put all that up this year.
• 20:04
  Christie: And he said, then we won't put it all up this year.
• 20:07
  Christie: Oh yeah.
• 20:07
  Christie: And it may not be that way for everyone, but Yeah.
• 20:09
  Christie: You know, it's, okay to just say, no, that's not how I'm feeling
• 20:13
  Cheryl: this year.
• 20:14
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:14
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:14
  Cheryl: Oh, that's good.
• 20:15
  Cheryl: And I think that would be one bit of advice I would offer.
• 20:18
  Cheryl: Look for places where there's less pressure.
• 20:20
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:21
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:21
  Cheryl: where you can take the pressure off.
• 20:23
  Cheryl: Ellen, you use the expression, um, emotional energy.
• 20:27
  Cheryl: You talk about emotional energy.
• 20:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:29
  Cheryl: particularly when there's loss.
• 20:30
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:31
  Cheryl: Or just hard times.
• 20:33
  Cheryl: That's don't any, don't have so much emotional energy.
• 20:35
  Cheryl: Don't have any, so really look at it and say, let's not do that.
• 20:39
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:39
  Cheryl: I'm not going to do that, or I'm gonna cut that out because, so, you just have to relieve some pressure.
• 20:46
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:46
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:46
  Cheryl: So you have the energy to give yourself where it matters.
• 20:49
  Christie: Right.
• 20:50
  Christie: And prioritize where you, you want to pour yourself into what you, what energy you do have to
• 20:54
  Ellen: use.
• 20:55
  Ellen: Well, I used to spend a week baking.
• 20:57
  Ellen: I would bake 15 different types of cookies.
• 20:59
  Ellen: That was normal.
• 21:00
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 21:01
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 21:01
  Ellen: somewhere for gift giving and somewhere for the family.
• 21:03
  Ellen: But I don't wanna do that anymore.
• 21:05
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 21:05
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 21:05
  Ellen: It doesn't bring me, every once in a while the kids would go, what happened to all the cookies you used to make?
• 21:11
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 21:11
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 21:11
  Ellen: And I'm like, well, you can make'em if you want.
• 21:13
  Ellen: Right.
• 21:13
  Ellen: You know, and it just, that was an area I had to simplify it cuz it wasn't joyful anymore.
• 21:19
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 21:19
  Ellen: And um, you know, we all have changes in circumstances, age, stamina, emotional strength.
• 21:26
  Ellen: And I think, you know, I find in my life, Just overall I'm learning to pick the few things that I really wanna do.
• 21:33
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 21:34
  Ellen: and let the rest go.
• 21:35
  Ellen: And, you know, the saying kiss, keep it simple, stupid.
• 21:38
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 21:39
  Ellen: you know, just allowing myself to go, it's okay.
• 21:41
  Ellen: Right.
• 21:42
  Ellen: I can let that go or I can delegate it to someone else if they care.
• 21:46
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 21:46
  Ellen: and most of the time nobody cares
• 21:48
  Christie: that much.
• 21:48
  Christie: Right.
• 21:49
  Christie: you know, cause I don't wanna change.
• 21:50
  Christie: Well, and I think to live authentically year round.
• 21:53
  Christie: I mean, I know that that sounds kind of cliche.
• 21:55
  Christie: People say that, but living authentically year round and not giving into the gift, giving pressure of I need to make something for all the neighbors but you know, we can love and serve others year round instead of squeezing it all into six weeks.
• 22:09
  Christie: No, that's good.
• 22:09
  Christie: Of the year, that's, yes.
• 22:10
  Christie: It's not that we're endorsing being a Scrooge or Grinch, but you know, it's, it's not that we have to do it just because it's December, right?
• 22:17
  Christie: Yes.
• 22:17
  Christie: We can just be authentically generous throughout the year.
• 22:20
  Christie: Yeah,
• 22:20
  Cheryl: that's true.
• 22:21
  Cheryl: And just slay that dragon of comparison.
• 22:24
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:24
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:25
  Cheryl: you know, and Ellen bringing up, spending a week making 15 different kinds of cookies.
• 22:31
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:31
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:32
  Cheryl: See the old me.
• 22:33
  Cheryl: That would've put so much burden on me.
• 22:36
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:36
  Cheryl: to be able to do it.
• 22:38
  Cheryl: And I would enjoy the experience with my children, but for me to stay in the kitchen and do it by myself, well my kids weren't invited to help there'd be no joy for me to, not do it all with my family, and I would do some things.
• 22:50
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:50
  Cheryl: but I mean, that dragon of comparison, whatever it is.
• 22:54
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:54
  Cheryl: Whether it's financial, it's the hallmark.
• 22:56
  Cheryl: picture.
• 22:57
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:57
  Cheryl: whatever it is, to stay away from it, to realize it and go, no, that's not me.
• 23:03
  Cheryl: This is my reality.
• 23:04
  Cheryl: Right.
• 23:05
  Cheryl: And embrace it and do what you're talking about.
• 23:07
  Cheryl: Live authentically.
• 23:08
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 23:09
  Ellen: I made sure one of the things that we were really strong about was when you, you know, when you leave home, you have your own tradition.
• 23:16
  Ellen: Yes.
• 23:17
  Ellen: I'm here.
• 23:17
  Ellen: You're not bound to do anything.
• 23:19
  Ellen: We do.
• 23:20
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 23:20
  Ellen: and, you know, you.
• 23:22
  Ellen: can tell us how you wanna spend Christmas Eve.
• 23:25
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 23:25
  Ellen: and Christmas Day.
• 23:26
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 23:26
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 23:26
  Ellen: And, um, we'll work around everybody's way to do stuff, but make sure you are making traditions and the tradition isn't just come to Omar's house.
• 23:35
  Ellen: Right.
• 23:35
  Ellen: And so that's been really good.
• 23:37
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:37
  Christie: You know, I, I read a book around the time my daughter was getting married, just.
• 23:41
  Christie: Trying to learn how to be an in-law, you know, have married children.
• 23:45
  Christie: And this woman, I wish I could remember the author's name to give her credit, but it was a great idea.
• 23:49
  Christie: She gave her adult children when they married a little gift box with a slip of paper in there that said freedom, and it represented freedom.
• 23:56
  Christie: Wow.
• 23:57
  Christie: For the holidays.
• 23:58
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:58
  Christie: To not feel pressured to, you know, jump in on every tradition and always be there.
• 24:03
  Christie: And she said as much as she could, she tried to honor you know, the holidays on other days.
• 24:08
  Christie: Right.
• 24:08
  Christie: So that she could accommodate with the extended family.
• 24:10
  Cheryl: Oh, that's good.
• 24:11
  Christie: And it's hard, but, but I think it, it really is a gift to our families so we can be flexible.
• 24:16
  Cheryl: Know we could expand that Mm-hmm.
• 24:18
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 24:19
  Cheryl: I hadn't thought about it, but maybe if there's a divorce mm-hmm.
• 24:23
  Cheryl: now not with small children so much you could.
• 24:26
  Cheryl: Verbalize it with small one, but maybe if you had older children, I don't know, to do that, A ritual with them.
• 24:32
  Cheryl: Yeah, because they're now torn.
• 24:35
  Cheryl: Right Between Christmas with one parent, Christmas with another, and then maybe have a ritual with them saying, I give you the freedom.
• 24:43
  Cheryl: That's really good.
• 24:44
  Cheryl: I'd never thought of that
• 24:46
  Christie: because there is a lot of pressure there on kids to make sure both parents feel right good about you celebrating at both houses and Yeah.
• 24:53
  Christie: Um,
• 24:54
  Ellen: especially if they know one parent's gonna be alone.
• 24:56
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 24:56
  Ellen: So if you're the alone parent, make sure that you've figured out times.
• 25:01
  Ellen: and let your children know, oh, you know, I'm gonna miss you on Christmas morning, but mom's gonna do this.
• 25:06
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 25:06
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 25:07
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 25:07
  Ellen: and kind of let'em know, you know, I made myself some special whatever, and I'm gonna celebrate that way so that that they can see, okay.
• 25:14
  Ellen: She's trying to make the most of the holiday.
• 25:16
  Cheryl: Right.
• 25:17
  Cheryl: And, and I'd like this.
• 25:19
  Cheryl: That you give the box.
• 25:20
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:21
  Cheryl: and it's official.
• 25:21
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:22
  Cheryl: to start the conversation.
• 25:23
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 25:24
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:24
  Cheryl: you know, and then maybe ke have that box and go, remember our box?
• 25:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:29
  Cheryl: we've got a freedom and it's different.
• 25:31
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:31
  Cheryl: And so I love you.
• 25:32
  Cheryl: I just love bringing up the subject so we can, talk about it and I imagine that would be the biggest Christmas gift you might be able to give your kids
• 25:41
  Christie: that year.
• 25:41
  Christie: Yeah, I agree.
• 25:43
  Christie: I agree.
• 25:43
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 25:44
  Ellen: Because then nobody wants to feel guilty at Christmas.
• 25:46
  Ellen: Right.
• 25:46
  Ellen: You know, or feel sad.
• 25:48
  Ellen: Right.
• 25:48
  Ellen: Or feel like they're doing something
• 25:49
  Christie: wrong.
• 25:50
  Christie: And if you are the adult child, you know, and, and you're talking about your parents Yeah.
• 25:54
  Christie: Or your in-laws.
• 25:55
  Christie: And I think there's also, you know, ways that that conversation can be brought up the other way.
• 26:00
  Christie: And that's a whole nother thing to navigate, but Right.
• 26:04
  Christie: It's, it's good to get our.
• 26:06
  Christie: mind's around it being a gift to try to be flexible and accommodate for each other.
• 26:11
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 26:12
  Cheryl: Right?
• 26:12
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:12
  Cheryl: Right.
• 26:13
  Ellen: It's, it is really hard sometimes at Christmas.
• 26:15
  Ellen: We know this both statistically, and I'm sure most of our listeners and all of us have experienced it.
• 26:23
  Ellen: Sometimes you have a rift in your family sometimes.
• 26:26
  Ellen: Family members aren't feeling warm and fuzzy towards one another.
• 26:30
  Ellen: Okay.
• 26:30
  Ellen: Yes.
• 26:30
  Ellen: Yep.
• 26:31
  Ellen: And, um, you, you're trying to accommodate, gathering everyone together.
• 26:36
  Ellen: And I think especially as moms, we wanna make everybody happy.
• 26:39
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 26:40
  Ellen: You know, cuz that does make us feel good, but sometimes it just is and you kind of have to work around it and you're certainly not gonna solve.
• 26:48
  Ellen: the problem over the holidays.
• 26:49
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 26:50
  Ellen: that's it.
• 26:50
  Ellen: Right.
• 26:50
  Ellen: And sometimes we think there's some magical thing that's gonna happen in the holidays and you know, Santa's fairy dust is gonna fall on everybody and they're all gonna like each other like they do in the movies.
• 26:59
  Ellen: Right.
• 27:00
  Ellen: But you know, that isn't real reality.
• 27:02
  Ellen: And I think it's important to think ahead of time, how do I wanna respond emotionally?
• 27:07
  Ellen: Very good.
• 27:08
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 27:08
  Ellen: to what's going on and how much do I wanna give my emotional energy mm-hmm.
• 27:13
  Ellen: to this rift.
• 27:15
  Ellen: Will have to be solved at some point, but the holidays isn't the time
• 27:19
  Christie: to try to do that.
• 27:20
  Christie: Right.
• 27:20
  Christie: And I love that you say, what can I do?
• 27:23
  Christie: How can I respond?
• 27:24
  Christie: Because I'm the only one.
• 27:26
  Christie: Yeah.
• 27:26
  Christie: I have any control over.
• 27:27
  Christie: Yes.
• 27:28
  Christie: And so how am I going to work towards grace and flexibility and serving this person as much as I can?
• 27:35
  Christie: And then there's a line where I've done all I can.
• 27:39
  Christie: Yes.
• 27:39
  Christie: And I think that's where we just have to.
• 27:43
  Christie: look towards the joy of the season.
• 27:46
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 27:46
  Christie: and, and the joy of the relationship of what good is there, celebrate what good has been.
• 27:51
  Christie: Yes.
• 27:51
  Christie: Or is still intact.
• 27:54
  Christie: And we may not have a day of happiness, you know, temporary happiness, but we have that, that joy that this person is in my life and has brought some positive things and love them.
• 28:05
  Christie: And we can
• 28:05
  Ellen: be the peace within ourselves.
• 28:07
  Ellen: Yes.
• 28:07
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 28:08
  Ellen: yes.
• 28:08
  Ellen: Because I mean, you can decide ahead of time.
• 28:10
  Ellen: You know, I think we all have to say, I am not going to react Yeah.
• 28:14
  Ellen: To this.
• 28:15
  Ellen: I'm going to respond.
• 28:17
  Ellen: Yes.
• 28:17
  Ellen: And I'm gonna kind of walk through scenarios in my.
• 28:20
  Ellen: Of woke, how do I respond?
• 28:22
  Ellen: What does that look like?
• 28:23
  Ellen: Right.
• 28:23
  Ellen: As
• 28:23
  Christie: wise and gracious and intentional as I possibly can.
• 28:26
  Christie: Yes.
• 28:26
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 28:27
  Cheryl: rather than trying to fix it.
• 28:28
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 28:29
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:29
  Cheryl: Because everything we've mentioned here, there isn't a fix.
• 28:32
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:32
  Cheryl: There
• 28:32
  Christie: isn't a fix.
• 28:33
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 28:33
  Christie: things are just hard sometimes
• 28:34
  Cheryl: But also I'm listening to what you're saying.
• 28:37
  Cheryl: That's why the overbusy, all the pressures we've talked about, the comparison, the trying to do so much, I would not have the emotional energy to prepare myself or so I could respond mm-hmm.
• 28:53
  Cheryl: to whatever it is.
• 28:54
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:54
  Cheryl: and which is what I really want to.
• 28:57
  Cheryl: But if I'm doing too much, if I'm over, over, over.
• 29:00
  Cheryl: Right.
• 29:00
  Cheryl: Inside and outside, we just aren't gonna
• 29:03
  Ellen: be there.
• 29:03
  Ellen: We're just run down.
• 29:04
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 29:04
  Ellen: At that point you don't have anything for
• 29:05
  Christie: anybody.
• 29:06
  Christie: Right.
• 29:07
  Christie: But boy, did that tinsel look nice, you know, I mean, what was it worth if they, if this.
• 29:11
  Christie: If this relationship is now broken.
• 29:13
  Christie: Yes, that's
• 29:13
  Ellen: right.
• 29:14
  Ellen: Well, I think we were talking earlier and I've been just doing this.
• 29:17
  Ellen: I've been asking everyone what was your favorite, not just my family, but everybody, you know, what was your favorite Christmas gift?
• 29:24
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 29:24
  Ellen: and most people can't remember.
• 29:26
  Ellen: Wow.
• 29:26
  Ellen: There might be one, but.
• 29:28
  Ellen: Really most people, I don't know, unless it was something big like a car or something
• 29:32
  Christie: and wow.
• 29:33
  Christie: Well yeah, if I were to answer that, the things that come to my mind that I would probably give you are things that have extreme sentiment or thoughtfulness.
• 29:41
  Christie: It's like your necklace.
• 29:42
  Christie: It's all, it's all very relational.
• 29:44
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:44
  Christie: So those are the things that really
• 29:46
  Ellen: it stick with us was the gift.
• 29:47
  Ellen: Right.
• 29:47
  Ellen: It was the thought behind the gift.
• 29:49
  Ellen: Exactly.
• 29:50
  Christie: So
• 29:50
  Cheryl: that's it cuz like TPP says, it's all about relationships.
• 29:55
  Ellen: Yeah
• 29:55
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 29:56
  Cheryl: And so thank y'all so much.
• 29:58
  Cheryl: Here we are.
• 29:59
  Cheryl: We're at the end of 2022.
• 30:01
  Cheryl: This will be our last episode of 2022.
• 30:04
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 30:04
  Cheryl: Where did
• 30:05
  Ellen: the year go?
• 30:07
  Cheryl: let's
• 30:07
  Ellen: let tell you what, you can't ask us all to sing Cheryl, because I don't think any of us would agree to that,
• 30:13
  Christie: And we're not gonna get, well, our listeners would not love that
• 30:16
  Ellen: And I don't think we're gonna get an Angels choir
• 30:18
  Christie: to come down Right.
• 30:20
  Christie: But we do wish you a Merry Christmas.
• 30:22
  Christie: Merry Christmas.
• 30:23
  Christie: Yeah.
• 30:23
  Christie: A happy holiday.
• 30:24
  Christie: And, um, Fight for joy and hope this season.
• 30:27
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 30:28
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 30:28
  Cheryl: Good.
• 30:28
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 30:29
  Cheryl: listeners Thank you so much for letting T PPP be a part maybe here of your holidays and your celebrations.
• 30:37
  Cheryl: to your year.
• 30:38
  Cheryl: I thought it would be appropriate for us to end our calendar year and these, episodes reading out of the book of Isaiah chapter nine about the one whom Christmas is really all about.
• 30:51
  Cheryl: So at the end of our episodes, we always say, parents remember, so I would say this to all of you.
• 30:57
  Cheryl: Remember, for, to us, a child is born to us, a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and its name shall be called Wonderful c.
• 31:12
  Cheryl: Marty, God, everlasting Father, prince of Peace.
• 31:17
  Cheryl: So to all of our listeners, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
• 31:27
  so glad you were here with us today on The Parenting Podcast.
• 31:31
  We'd like to hear from you about your holiday experiences, and maybe particularly in this area of what you've found has helped you once the harder part of holidays.
• 31:41
  Simply text us contact@theparentingpodcast.com, or you can go to our website or DM us on any social media platform.
• 31:50
  Now we're going to take off for Christmas, but we'll be back the very first week in January.
• 31:56
  We drop our episodes every Thursday, but why don't you follow us so you don't miss any.
• 32:01
  All of us here at T P P sincerely wish you great joy throughout the season, and we look forward to 2023 and being back with you.