Latest / Matt Brown Show - Conversations That Power The Business World. / MBS986 - Marketing Smarter with AI: Jeanne Sheehy, CMO of Bostrom

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MBS986 - Marketing Smarter with AI: Jeanne Sheehy, CMO of Bostrom · Matt Brown Show - Conversations That Power The Business World.

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone and welcome back to yet another cracking edition of the Macground Show.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is the AI Advantage series where we are talking to business leaders all about the impact of AI in their businesses and in their industries.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: And with us in the hot seat today is Jeannie Sheehe.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: She is the chief marketing officer of Bostrom.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Jeannie, welcome to the show.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Great to be here.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys are playing around with uh a bit of AI and you're doing a bunch of stuff in uh agile experience and all this kind of stuff.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: But um I don't want to, you know, misrepresent what you guys do exactly.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: So why don't you kick us off with the elevator pitch uh about Bostrom?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: What exactly are you guys doing?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: So Bostrom is an association management company, and it is a it's a niche of professional services firms that works with trade groups and professional societies and you know, mainly nonprofits.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um we are hired by a board or by a CEO to do aspects of their associations.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we manage, no one knows who Bostrom is, but they know who the International Biometric Society is, or the Greeting Card Association, or, you know, the associations themselves, but we do everything.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: We act as their CEO executive director, we do their meetings, events, marketing, membership, governance, strategic planning, finance and accounting, everything for the association.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: So our our businesses, we manage associations, all aspects of their business, but we also have outsourcing and consulting.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So they could hire us just to do their meetings and marketing or just to do their accounting and finance.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we either do all of it or we do pieces of it, but it's all professional services for associations.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting niche.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: How many associations do you guys impact uh at any given moment?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we we have 30 association clients that we manage ongoing, um, either full management or outsourcing.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then we do consulting for larger associations where we do business modeling, market research, um, strategic planning, uh growth, uh non-dues revenue growth, uh ideation, and you know, just we have we have so much fun because it's just it's a very purpose-driven work that we do.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so we get to play around with all these different industries and professions, helping them have an impact on society, whatever mission that they are, you know, really targeting.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's great rewarding work.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's awesome.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's the nice thing about that type of business, right?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Where you are working across multiple verticals, same sort of business, like a nonprofit or whatever, but in terms of entity type, but certainly you're you're executing across different um, you know, missions and and verticals and things like that.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what always keeps something interesting for me, you know?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: As a marketing person, I absolutely love it.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we do half trade groups, half professional societies.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: It could be healthcare, construction, legal, insurance, um, scientific.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's just it's really fun to just do something different every day or every hour.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so let's change gears, talk about AI.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: So on your website, you've actually got an AI readiness guide.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh five steps for associations.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: What what what like how does one approach AI readiness if you're like an association as an example?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like what are these sort of guardrails that you've established for them?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or we have.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have we we have an AI council.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of companies either have an AI council or an AI center of excellence.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really looking at the organization and the services that we provide.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: How do we where can we automate effectively?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: How do we take the jobs that we do and be able to do them faster or more effectively so we can spend time on more strategic things rather than tasks?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then how do we put guardrails around what we're choosing?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we have 65 employees here.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: We are on about 72 different software platforms.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: We inherit things.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: We are, you know, because we we run the gamut of the services we provide, it's crazy the amount of technologies we touch on a daily basis.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So the AI council not only looks at just AI, but it's it's what are all these technology vendors?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: How are they incorporating AI in a safe, secure manner?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: How do we guardrail the content?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we have certification programs and exams and highly, highly confidential things that these associations are putting out there.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: We have to protect that.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we put guardrails on the AI technologies that we're using and the AI that is being integrated into the platforms we already have, where we haven't been a part of that decision at all, you know?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a lot of conversations with our technology partners and a lot of training with our employees, too.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what the AI Council is all about.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: We already put together guidelines, policies, procedures.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: We have a full list of uh, you know, uh a template that associations can use for how do you how do you assess technology, how do you put guardrails around it, what questions do you ask your vendors, all of those things.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then how do you build a culture about the use of AI, about being open to experiments, safe to fail?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: How do you get people away from the fear, but also have the guardrails and the collaboration so they can ask questions, you know, if they do feel like, I don't know if I should be putting this in Chat GPT or I don't know if I should put this in Copilot, having that that counsel there to help them through those decisions.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I mean it raises, you know, some pretty hectic questions, you know, if you for any business really like cybersecurity posture, if you do this, then uh, you know, what does this actually mean?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have like a mid-market or let's just say someone that could be even senior but maybe a little bit ignorant about um things like governance frameworks, policies, and and that kind of stuff.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, especially if you're in the financial services business, or you know what I mean, and or in any business where you highly regulated healthcare is another one, you know, it's uh it's it's it's a it's a huge risk, you know, to circumvent, or at least especially at a business where you have lots of humans, you know.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now everyone's playing around the GPT to your point, and they're like, oh, what's this co-pilot thing?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just shove my customer report in there, you know what I mean?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and our you know, our marketing team, they went full on AI.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think the first presentation I did on AI and marketing was in 2018, and I remember it was to a bunch of association executives, and they were just like, just, you know, blank stare at me.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: But now, you know, the the our marketing team, we have about nine people and they are just all over it.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: They use it all the time and and and they experiment with new things.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we're doing videos and and podcasts, you know, with Google Notebook in seconds.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's crazy, you know, the amount of technology that's getting thrown our way.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: But they they're open and they experiment and they understand the guardrails.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think marketing was the first to adopt it, and and then it kind of went into education and the meetings uh team and things like that.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: So what else are you experimenting with as a marketing team?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: So on the marketing side, you know, definitely the videos.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we, you know, we were doing so much video production, and it took forever.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: First, we were outsourcing it, then we brought it inside, and we did a studio, and we did all of these training things for us, you know, the association itself would have a series of videos.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that we have definitely used AI to build an avatar, put in a script, write the script for us, um, you know, produce the video, and now we post it and we can uh, you know, distribute it widely a lot a lot faster.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then um we're also using, we use a platform called Heyorca for our social media management.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so that's all the AI around just making sure that posts are tailored to the right platforms and they they are sent when our audience reads their social.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, our e-marketing system does the same thing.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: It looks at our base of members and it says, oh, this, you know, this person reads it on Saturday mornings.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna send it then.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, things like that.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then the analytics and the metrics, the marketing team is using, um gaining a lot of insights from analytics that they weren't able to do before without being an expert on it too.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's no such thing, you know.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's people who play around and fail faster um than others, you know, and that's it's like that's how you create competency, and competency creates you know, leverage.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's all about experimenting now, you know.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's ultimately why you win, you know.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Have you guys played around with Veo3 much?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: You should do that.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's like what is that?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's Google's Sora F, you know SoraF from GPT?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's um Sora can create videos and pictures and stuff that are pretty cool.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but Veo3 is a um it's Sora, but you can put voiceover on it.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it produces the voiceover as well, and and that's so like I can put you on stage that's you talking about me and how awesome I am, you know.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a live audience and stuff.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, that's incredible.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, well I'm I'll have a check about for sure.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean how do you ever think that um you're able you you would be able to automate most of your marketing function in the future?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like you would have to do.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the marketing function, no.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do think as long as there are humans involved, and in the association world, it's all about humans, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's if you think about what an association is filled with, it's the members that are in an industry or a profession.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And they are, and and the leaders, the academic leaders, the industry leaders, those are the people that are setting standards, that are the guardrails of an industry or a profession, that you know, they come together once a year.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Our our attendee, our conference attendance is off the charts for a lot of our associations because they want that human connection.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: People are so tired of doing Zoom all day.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're so tired of working from home.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: The young people that we've been hiring here in Chicago and DC, they want to be in the office.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: They not five days, but they want to be in the office.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: They want to see people, they want social, they want to see the leaders in the company.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it it's a human, it's a relationship business, the association world is.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So as long as that remains true, the marketing that we do is around humans and it's gonna be around change.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you things change within a company.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Something, some someone finds something else, a volunteer finds something else, and we have to change something.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um the nuances of of education and certification within an industry or a profession, you know, you have to get it right.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: So some things you can automate, but I don't think it'll ever be most marketing could be automated.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not there yet.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think you should.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think even if you could have a one person hundred million dollar a year business, you know what I mean?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I don't know.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not there yet.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: I you know, it's enough.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: It will replace jobs, it will do that, but not yeah, not that function.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: I can't see that happening.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting to watch though.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, you know, we used to use a lot of website development partners, you know.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're I think we're doing six websites right now for yeah, for our clients, and they happen faster.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: They certainly happen faster than they used to.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you should play around with lovable.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard of that.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't uh our team hasn't played around with it.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just feed it a prompt and then it basically creates a wireframe.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can give it brand guidelines and it'll produce the I mean you still have to build it.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think you there's a or at least my team anyway, they were like, yeah, it gets you there, but then when you get to the deployment of it, yeah.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I think because they want you to host it with them.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: You see what I'm saying?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um Oh that's yeah, that would make sense.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: They'd have to get their revenue from somewhere, but I know.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean it's awesome.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's a cool website called um there's an AIForThat dot com.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I get that, I I get their newsletter.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: I am an avid reader and experimenter of that website.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I know, right?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's awesome.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: How do you figure out which solution, which AI products?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just say you're on the newsletter and you read a new thing there about, I don't know, video generation or whatever.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, as a CMO, like, how do you figure out which tool or product, you know, that's promising you this new amazing AI-driven thing?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like, how do you figure out, like, you know, is it how do you know who to trust in this space?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's it's really hard.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we certainly don't jump on the on the latest and greatest thing right away.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we really do, you have to balance it, right?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: You have to balance, here's the work that we have to get done.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: These associations have growth goals, they have campaigns, they have events.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: We got to get the work done.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have to be really careful on this side of how do we get it done faster, what AI tool can we use to do it.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we will have like new projects come up all the time.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, say we have there's a there's a video series that somebody wanted done, one of our clients wanted done, and it was a five series video about their um their health services executive program.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it was all about training people on how to go through the program.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that would have taken months and months and months.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we found a tool, and maybe I found a on there's a an AI for that, I don't know.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: But um it we found synthesia through that, and we just said, all right, we've got this project.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have a lot of time to do it.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Let's try it, let's experiment with it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the the association came right along with us and said, okay, let's give it a try.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so, of course, we did our due diligence on how are they protecting the content and how is it learning and you know, all of those things.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we did some due diligence and we dove in and we experimented with it.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we're lucky that our 30 association clients allow us to experiment, you know, safely.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have pro new projects and new things all the time that we have to get out the door.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it really is about experimentation and choosing the right project and choosing one that would be safe to test on.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then once we do that, now we're using thincesia synthesia for like three other clients, you know.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I know I don't I'm not I don't I'm not swayed one way or another.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I know synthesia.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So he basically feed it a text and it creates video and stuff.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so you could say, you know, um uh I could do something like this.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um create a testimonial video from Jeannie Sheehe, you know, about the map round show and how awesome her experience was.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's not you, but it's some other AI video thing, and then it's busy like yawning and talking and whatever, and even and you can kind of if you like you and me, we'd be able to like sniff out what's AI generated versus what's not.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think you know, and I keep asking this question about ethics and transparency and things like this, and it's very fortunate for you guys as a team to be able to have clients that are like, yeah, man, cool, whatever you can do to get us the result that we want.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think there's training, right?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that is very different to a testimonial video, or it's very different to a number of other executional uh use cases that you could use a platform like Synthesia for, um, even for podcasting, you know.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we've done um or are doing uh AI podcast series for um a client, uh Brett Robinson, they do like massive like destination uh villas and single family units and stuff.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, um and so it speeds up a lot a lot of things, but like if you if you're listening to it, and you know, is this really yeah is it ethically correct, or do we need to have a disclaimer at the end of the podcast to go this this podcast was produced with AI?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you have any questions or da da da da da da da da like you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so you know where I'm going with this, right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what what where does the buck stop in terms of ethical use and the transparency of that usage?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I and it does depend on how you're using it and how much you're using it, but I think you have to be something like that, you have to be fully transparent.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember writing articles on on AI, on marketing content creation on AI, and I would use Chat GPT, and I put full on this article.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: This article used Chat GPT for research, for for inspiration, you know.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was a comedy.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I do think you have to be transparent.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: But there's also there's a company, there's a technology company we work with called the Higher Logic.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they're they're a community platform, and they have an ecosystem for associations that uh I really think addresses the concerns that people are having about connecting online, like say it's an association, connecting online with each other, getting learning and education, getting um a not getting access to a knowledge center, a group of articles or a journal or whatever that association's content is.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: But that that whole community um and what they are doing with AI, I think is gonna bring a level of security and safety to and take people off mainstream social media to connect with and uh to connect in a community that they know is secure, that they know it's their content, it's their um, it's leaders that they trust that are authentic, that and they would have to be transparent about the bot that they're using, you know.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: But where that's moving is going to a website and saying, hey, you know, I want to, I want to go to this webinar on this particular subject.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, great, here's one in the fall, but guess what?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: At our annual conference, we're having this.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want me to register you?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure, go ahead.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's transactional too.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's actually, you know, a genive.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's an agent, right?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's gonna help you throughout that whole thing.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: But it's closed.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not going to a public website or going to Facebook and trying to find that information.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's a closed source of somebody that you trust.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is what's could be really interesting and and powerful about agenda AI and the uses of AI for companies.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, that's uh something for me to think about because I I've got a huge network and you know, having just have this similar conversation with a number of like CEOs, CFOs, CEOs, whatever, and so on, everybody's wrestling with the same thing.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I could absolutely see the utility in that sort of private community for you know for leaders who are trying to share things, not just talk about opinions, you know, like even on this show, like I think we've shared like four or five actual resources.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: But people will love us talking about, I'm sure.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people don't know that that stuff even exists.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, or that other people are using it.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because if, you know, take synthesia, for instance, if if I if they now know that I'm using it and you're using it, that's trust factor, right?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe go, you know.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: People that have actually experimented and used the product and have a story to tell from it.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Have you written a book on this?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because it seems to me like you've been in this space for a lot longer than that.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I have not written a book, the AI guide.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote that this year, but no, I had, you know, I had a I was in technology before association management.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And our vice president of engineering was hired by the Society of Women Engineers to become their CEO, and they were managed by Bostrom.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I got to Bostrom.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was in content management, enterprise software, publicly owned software company.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we were going through so many mergers and acquisitions every year.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was a fun time.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it was 20 years ago, you know.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I love technology.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I always have.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I love to understand how data is structured and what you can do with that, and um, and build.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Building on that from there.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So my background really helped.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: It helped to be a marketer today, because marketing, you have got to have that technology side.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I spend more money than our than our chief technology officer or you know, many CIOs out there of our of companies our size.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, marketing is a huge spend.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: It is, but there has to be a return on investment with this sort of stuff as well, you know?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it always comes, I mean, I've been in you know, I was head of strategy for TBWA, like I've done, you know, Ogle V, and it's been like big work, big, big work for huge brands, you know, big budgets and things like this.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then you always get asked the question, yes, but if we if we pull the trigger on this like million dollar whatever campaign, like, you know, what's the return on investment gonna be?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so and you know, and obviously I can spend hours talking about that, but um where I'm going with this is with your CMO cap on, how do you think about return on investment for the use uh of AI for things like you know, content generation or website design or whatever, right?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think about return on investments um as it relates to the actual usage of AI within your team?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, I think you have to be really careful these days with any technology investment because new technology and AI is changing things so quickly.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um working with associations and nonprofits, we don't have big budgets at all.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: We have to be extremely scrappy when it comes to the tools that we use.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: What do we charge back to customers?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so we might pick something like Hey, Orca for our social media management platform, but we have to sell that to 30 different boards to say, hey, this is going in your budget next year.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what it's gonna do, here's much time it's gonna save.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you do have to, you know, we pass on those costs.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we not only have to do that part of it, but we do have to sell the ROI.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: We do have to say, this, you know, this tool saved this much time with your content marketing manager, who was then able to do these other campaigns because of that.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we are constantly having to prove ROI in marketing.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you have to be creative these days.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: We, you know, I would not sign a two-year technology contract with anybody.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're not making any big moves right now.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're I just I don't know where this technology is gonna go.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we're we're doing one-year projects, we're working with technology firms that are are looking at it the way that we think they should be looking at it in terms of AI integration.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, they're developing so fast, you know.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what does that mean to our business?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what are they gonna do with maintenance and and upgrades and everything?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a I don't I think it's a crazy time.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's still the Wild West.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're not making big decisions.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Our ROI is truly based on the marketing work that we do and what comes back.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if a tool can help that and we can prove that and charge for it, then great.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of feels to me like you want to go from 75 applications to to 15 or something.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: We do.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: We do.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: That is absolutely our package it up as a suite and say, okay, you know, if you buy the whole thing, it costs X, but you can also procure these things individually.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, but then your text pain out, right?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do that themselves.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: But if you you know, if you think about our our work, like when we when we have a new client come online, we inherit not only what their database was and what their website was, we inherit all of these technology partners that came with it, plus all the little tools that the volunteers were using.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So all their the Google Drive and all of stuff that they were using that may not have been locked down, um, you know, things that maybe a committee was playing with and it was a tool that they use.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, like every single time we onboard a client, it's a full technology assessment that we have to do.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it it reveals some really cool tech that we hadn't seen before, and we'll adopt it and you know, leverage it for our other clients.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times it's sunsetting things and consolidating.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you should just double down on agentich.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like business case for this thing, opportunity cost delete or rate.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, where the data flows, and then you just have, you know, a partner to do all that stuff.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's the only way you you you present SaaS sprawl or any kind of technology.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Even AI, like I mean, yeah, there's an AI for that, there's sprawl everywhere.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's ridiculous.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: We did, you know, it's about uh we used to have 12 people in our IT department.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's one.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: One and everything, everything is SaaS technology and technology partners, and we don't host, we don't do anything here.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have a director of IT and we utilize a business analyst at times, you know, but you know, one of our competitors just hired an AI engineer, and I'm really watching that carefully to see how they're gonna use that role.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And well, good luck to them because it seems to me that uh, you know, you guys are as a team.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I like honestly, I and this is a true um sense is that you guys are like way more at the coal fest than a lot of other teams that I've seen.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: That you talk to, really?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's no joke.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even just um the fact that you know about there's an AI for that, you know, the fact that you are doing text to video stuff for you know try and avatars and you know, talking about it, not just saying, hey, one day we'll do it, but like you're playing with it, you know, and I think as I touched on earlier, that that's what drives learning and capability, and that's ultimately one person's not gonna do that.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: So they could hire the best AI engineer in the world.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if you have nine people who are looking actively at best of breed, and also I think the nature of your business as well, you know, yeah, is that you you you you're naturally exposed to tech infrastructure from these associations and I think you know, I don't know.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know that's I'm team Jeannie.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm team.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Grid.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Jeannie, let's wrap this up.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Fun question for you, um, and then I'll let you go.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: But um, if if you were to predict like a fun or maybe a surprising way that you think AI is gonna affect everyday life in the future, what do you think that would be?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: We've been having so many conversations about robots and in the house and what they'll be doing.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there was some stat that in by by 2030, four out of five households are gonna have a robot or something, or two out of five.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember what it was, but everyone's gonna have a robot.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: So of course I've been thinking about what what what kind of robot would I have and what would it do in my house?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, cleaning, cooking, and yeah, I would I would do it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean 25 grand apparently is the price for uh Optimus robot.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, walk my dog, not that I would outsource that all the time, but certainly uh playing with kids, you know, if you're a single mom, you know, and you don't have time, or doing manual shit like, you know, doing the laundry or watering the garden.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um long-term care.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Think about 100%, you know, senior senior care.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: We are one of our groups is the National Association of Boards of Long-Term Care Examiners.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the people the people that run senior care facilities.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and I was talking to our account executive, and she was like, they are already um talking about robotics for medicine delivery, for bed care, for you know, uh the bedpan, for for the things that they're having so much trouble in the workforce to get people to do and to work in these centers, these nursing care centers and long-term care centers.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if robotics could take that burden off, that would be huge.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and to the person.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Just think about not having a person having to do that for you.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I don't know, it could change a lot.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Or you could use Neuralink to upload your whole consciousness or all your life experience, basically as much data as you could offload from a human hard drive.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're getting into Black Mirror.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Here we go, dude.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now we upload that to Optimus.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, your wife passes away, you know, and now you want to have her, you know, or you you know, she wants you, you know what I mean?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like to have that sort of now we get into some weird shit, man.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna be after my time.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think so.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Not when Groc's gonna be creating new elements in the universe in the next three months.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think I heard that.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Genie, it's been great to have you on the show.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you for lending your perspective and uh yeah, just wishing you and the team there all the continued suc success in the future.