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Roberta Brown Elson · Divas That Care Network

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Powering Through Life on the Divas That Care Network.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Teresa Sims, and I am a life trauma and assertiveness coach and an award-winning author and multiple number one bestselling co-author.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Each week on Powering Through Life, my guests and I discuss topics that are close to their hearts.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Together, we explore the challenges they have faced in life and learn what strategies and tools they have used to power through their lives.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now today my guest is Roberta Brown-Elson, and Roberta's focus is to share her story to help other people.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: She wants to bring attention to the different layers of abuse, not just the physical and mental aspects.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Roberta believes when people are being abused, it becomes their normal.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: She's had a lot of pieces of the puzzle to fit together before she understood the enormity of it all.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Roberta received the final piece of the puzzle when she was 51 years old, and now she's almost 60.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: So after 31 years of therapy with the same therapist, and this therapist also writes the foreword of her book, The Shoulding, her therapist helped Roberta to dig in and understand why she's had post-traumatic stress and the subsets of anxiety, agoraphobia, and panic disorder.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: So Roberta, welcome again to Powering Through Life.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know I've had you on the show before and I'm so glad you've come back.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad you asked me to come back.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Teresa.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're very welcome.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love the topic that you're going to be talking about today and I have read your book and I was so moved and inspired by your story.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's just incredible.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I know we wanted to touch on today about the Me Too generation and Time's Up, and those are hashtags that we've all used, and how you wrote your book before those hashtags were even out there.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that listening to the Me Too stories and the Time's Up stories helped when they went so blew up so nationally was really triggering for me triggering for my experience and and a lot of other people's experience as well but it's it's to talk about all this stuff because it's very healing once you get through the initial shock of it all.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now, would you like to share a little bit about your story with us?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, dear.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Where would
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: you like me to start?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wherever you feel comfortable, and you knew I was going to ask that.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess I can share that I grew up in a middle-class home, middle-class Jewish family in Minneapolis where everything really appeared to be, you know, You know, sort of the perfect family in a beautiful neighborhood, going to good schools.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And what people didn't know was there was all this abuse behind the scenes.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: I had a father who was physically abusive as well as emotionally and mentally abusive, and a mother who was complicit in all of that, and an older sister who was also cruel.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And my personality was much different than theirs.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: They were all narcissistic, and I am not, and I was also the baby of the family.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that became my normal, you know, dealing with all these people who were certainly not supportive and not nice.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that families actually– weren't like mine.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just thought everybody grew up like them.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that something?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, and it's the physical abuse.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just thought everybody got beaten up at home, I guess.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I don't mean to laugh, because it sounds so ridiculous when you say it out loud.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think you've gotten to the point where you can laugh about it now because it's not who you are.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: no, it's certainly not who I am.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't tolerate that sort of behavior in my life.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't allow people to stay in my life who become abusive.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've had two really long-term relationships with friends of mine that became abusive and abusive.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: 40-year relationships that I've had to really put a stop to because they weren't kind and didn't consider how things that they were saying to me would make me feel and knowing my background would use things against me.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: from my background.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I've had to cut off some really long-term friendships that I realized weren't really friendships for the most part.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's what your topic was, was not just the physical abuse and the mental, but there's so many other different forms of abuse that, you know, we're not always aware of because usually it's the physical that is the first thing that is talked about.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, exactly,
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: because,
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know, that's I think historically when people would talk about being physically abused, it was kind of a shock for other people to hear it and think, oh, when you get hit, you get hit, and that's really bad.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: But there are subsets of that that are really almost worse, equally as bad if not worse, and that's planting seeds of self-doubt and calling– calling your character into question and how you look and how you talk and things that you talk about that mean something to you are belittled.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you become like a nothing, like, you know, and you're not even lucky enough to be invisible, feeling like a nothing.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're almost like just a shell of a being, almost sometimes not even a human being, just a shell of a being.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And when those seeds are planted like that, then things lead.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: They just manifest, and they come into anxiety, agoraphobia, and panic disorders, right, like you had mentioned earlier?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard to put all those pieces together.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: You just think you're so damaged.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you must have done something to damage yourself because, you know, can't you get a hold of yourself?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can't you pull yourself up by your bootstraps and just move on?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: You've heard that,
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, a little bit, yep.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Once or twice, for sure.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what's wrong with you?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: You look fine, all this other sort of thing.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: And, yeah, well, that doesn't mean I am fine.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's so many different aspects that come into play.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And was that the driving force behind you writing your book?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: The driving force was to give people a language to use and to start a dialogue with the friends that they have and find the people that would be supportive of what they were trying to do to better themselves.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it was to create dialogue, mostly.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: other reasons?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, and to identify what was happening and not to feel alone in that because, you know, you isolate yourself because you start to think, there must be something really wrong with me.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm being told there's something wrong with me all the time.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there must be something terribly wrong with me.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't walk right, I don't talk right, I don't eat the right things, I don't say the right things, I don't hang out with the right people.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's insidious.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: It enters into every aspect of your life.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you begin to wonder, is there anything that's right about me?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: then you just walk around damaged all the time, but you don't know why and you don't know how to fix it.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's true.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And how...
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: What did you work through, and how did you and your therapist approach digging into these different aspects?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was interesting because I didn't really talk about my folks too much.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly some of the physical abuse came up, but I was trying to figure out, why I didn't want to leave my house and why I had trouble going out the door and why everything terrified me.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So everything, everything.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Terrified all the time of everything.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just a bunch of hard pieces to put together.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so we dealt with piece by piece.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: We started with the agoraphobia because that's why I started with him.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then we dealt with the panic disorder and anxiety.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And many years into this, actually, at the beginning, he had asked me, and I don't know if I've talked to you about this before, but my therapist had asked me if I had been sexually abused by my father.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so shocked by that question because it was so totally the opposite.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I got to be six years old and I couldn't sit near my dad anymore.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't sit on his lap.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't sit...
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: he just didn't want to go near me.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like totally the opposite.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: But my behavior, my acting out behavior, was reminiscent of someone who had been sexually abused by their parent.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we had to go backwards and figure out where that all came from.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then we got into the post-traumatic stress disorder piece and what I thought was the agoraphobia was the main diagnosis and then everything was a subset of that and as I worked through year after year I realized that PTSD is the big diagnosis my dad nearly killed me when I was 16 he was pounding my head trying to pound it through the living room floor He had my hair in his hands, and he was pounding my head into the floor.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And as this was happening, and I'm starting to black out, and he's in just a blind rage, and I don't really want to call it, let me rephrase that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: He knew exactly what he was doing.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't blind rage.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: He was in a rage.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized as I was blacking out, if I did not get away, he would kill me.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And in that same thought of he would kill me came, he's not going to mean to kill me, but he's going to kill me nonetheless, which I don't know where that comes from, where you're rationalizing that he's not going to mean to kill me,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: but he's going to.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And at that particular moment is kind of interesting how that happened.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I somehow twisted away from him.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he was choking me.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: He was choking me.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: I had a cardigan on, and he was choking me with it.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, if I don't get out of here, I'm dead.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be dead.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I twisted away from him, and I ran out the door with the clothes on my back and no shoes.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Back in the days of no cell phones and, you know.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I ran.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: I ran away.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I somehow got a hold of my boyfriend.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even remember.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so much missing from that part of it.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he came and picked me up, and he took me out to his college dorm.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the resident advisor just started packing my face, shoulders, and head in ice because I was so bruised up and I was so swollen.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And they were going to call the police, and I begged them not to because I just didn't want any trouble.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: He wouldn't have meant to kill me.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's amazing how we rationalize that we shouldn't attract more attention to it or we shouldn't have almost justice for what's happened to us.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, in not calling them out, we're protecting them.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, isn't that odd?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's also a sign of the times.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're about the same age, I think.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really of that generation, that there's so much shame in it.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's also the self-blame.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I must have done something to deserve this.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then again, the rationalizing of, oh, he wouldn't have meant to kill me.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: But my mother was downstairs while it was happening.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was screaming, and she did not come upstairs.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's interesting.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know I read that in your book, and I was totally taken aback by that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, in that generation, did the women feel that they could actually interject when something like that was happening, or were they afraid themselves?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and mine's a different situation.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you've read the book, so I can sort of play this forward a little bit.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: But the piece that I got when I was 51 that put it all together for me was my mother instigated this behavior.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: She would get him so enraged so he would beat me up.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the piece that was missing for me.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And when that came to me and I realized that this happened over and over and over again, That, I mean, I really, I went into a fugue, you know, I totally checked out.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: I remember hearing, taking a deep breath and then sitting there.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I just sort of, I was in a fugue state from the shock of realizing that she was a player in this.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I imagine that the trauma in that realization alone would put you in that state because here's a woman, you know, your mom, you think is going to protect you and the person that loves you the most and yet not necessarily, right?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, and it's so shocking to me.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think back on that moment of realizing it and I go, oh, my God, no wonder I can't.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, like, move forward because this big piece was missing.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And from that day, I realized I was all right.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: It came to me and I thought, this is just awful.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm okay.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not crazy.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't do these things.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not responsible for all of this stuff.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it took me until I was 51.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Dad tried to kill me when I was 16.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: That is a long period of time.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: However, I'm so thankful that you had that awakening because look at all the wonderful things you're doing now.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Would you like to describe why you named your book The Shooting?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: The shoulding, because I was shamed all the time.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: You should be doing this.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: You should be doing that.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: You shouldn't feel this way, and you shouldn't feel that way.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And when I wrote the book, every time I used the word should, I capitalized it.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you can see how I was shoulding on myself through my entire book, through my entire life.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Goodness.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just something that's been done to you.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you had mentioned at some point in time you had a high level of guilt from your background.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't talk about these things.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if you do and people don't believe you, then it's another shaming.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's a whole other thing that goes along with that.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, come on, it couldn't have been that bad.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Bet me.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, you know, they think that because we were children or younger when this happened that we make it up and all this sort of thing.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't make up the bruises.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't make up the injury to your shoulder.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Or
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: my back,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: no.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you didn't ask for that.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: that aspect of your life to happen, but how has it affected the relationships that you've had with your family?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's see.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: The irony of writing my book, it was exactly a year to the day that my dad died.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the whole book kind of came to me on the year anniversary, and I thought, well, isn't that interesting that it's starting to write itself?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I must have felt free enough and safe enough to finally put it all down.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it took me a year to write.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And my mother was never completely blameless, but I still had to write through a lot of it to get to that, oh, my God, she was like a big instigator and she was complicit.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then my sister...
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've tried.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Boy, I tell you, I've tried more than once to have a relationship with her.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I finally gave up, and we didn't talk for four years.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I just had had enough.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I had enough of her cruelty, and it never stops.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Her cruelty never stops.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And last November, I decided to give it one more try.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: One more.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I just thought, I'm going to do this one more time.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I had met somebody, and I thought, you know, if I get married, maybe I would want her there.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was sort of a thought.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And here our parents had been gone, and we're it.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're the only blood relatives, which doesn't make people family.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: It just makes them blood relatives.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so I went to lunch with her, and she was just amazing.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: as awful as ever.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was astounding.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: She was a martyr.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: She was a narcissist.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: She was cruel.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: She could not have been any worse than she was.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And she said she had read my book.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: But what was funny was there was, and I don't know if you want this or not, you'd want to hear this or not, but there was this whole game of telephone with my cousins and they said that They wrote me and they said, you know, your sister's read your book.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, oh, okay.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's not like it was a big secret.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I did publish it under my own name, so it wasn't a secret.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And after she had read the book or whatever she had read in the book, she called another cousin and said, you know that Roberta wrote a book about me, don't you?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: that cousin called the cousin that I'm in touch with.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: and said, oh, your sister thinks your book is about her, which told me that she probably only read the chapter about my sister, you know, the sister chapter, which I call it.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: yeah.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: so I confronted her on that when we were at lunch.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, so I hear that you called Cousin So-and-So and you told her that I wrote a book about you.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And she stopped and she looked at me and she goes, and?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I said, well, you know, those 10 pages...
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you think that out of 172 that those 10 pages make the book about you, you know the book's about me, right?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I'm to a point where she can't hurt me anymore.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: So she kept saying, you know, some of the stuff isn't even true.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't ask her what part she didn't think was true because it would have to be the stuff about her.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you know, there were other people around when all this happened.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not making any– and, of course, I would write this entire book, and the only thing I would make up would be about her.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny how their perception of the events and everything is directed at them and to make themselves look– the victim or the martyr, however you want to phrase it.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I think they need to because they can't process it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they were in their own version of whatever their, pardon my language, the hell was and, you know, unable to process it and then, you know, you've done your growth and your healing and your searching and maybe she's just still stuck in whatever it was that went on for her.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I find it interesting.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there wasn't a lot she could have done to hurt me or say that would have made me go, you know, you're just so awful.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I wouldn't even bother.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't even bother.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: But she did say one thing that got my hackles up, which I think you'll find entertaining.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: She said something about my therapist.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, you know, if he was a better therapist, you wouldn't have had to see him for 31 years.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I looked at her and I said, well, you're entitled to feel however you want to feel.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I kept repeating that phrase every time she would say something awful to me.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're entitled to however you want to feel.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was so aggravating for her, I'm sure.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine it would be because that's not what they want to hear.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to get you engaged in some argument.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I just kept repeating that.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought, you can't hurt me anymore.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: hurt me anymore.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: But like I said, the only thing that got my hackles up was that statement about my therapist and I didn't really even address it.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's probably better not to really.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, exactly.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And what purpose is it going to serve when it's going to fall on ears that are not receptive to it anyway?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but, you know, when you have family like this, and I put family in quotes, in air quotes since we're on the phone, those kind of people are in your corner they're not supportive they're not looking out for your best interest so don't give them any power that's the thing you know because as young people being abused and I know you'll understand this is that you are powerless
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: when you're
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: a young person a young kid And you take everything so to heart.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And because these people are supposed to be the people taking care of you, you're sort of at their mercy.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: What did I call it in the book?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: It'll come to me.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: But you're a hostage in a sense.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah, absolutely.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a, you know what, I've lost it, but it's when you identify with your captor And you do whatever you need to do to get fed.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: You
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: know what I'm talking about.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know you know what I'm talking
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: about.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: It'll come to me.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, and that's how it gets ingrained so quickly and how it stays with you for so long because you're so young and impressionable.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it does actually get into our subconscious mind, which is where all of our programs from young lives are set, where all of our beliefs are set.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it just does so much damage to that aspect of us that we really don't even know who we are or we're just created by this individual for whatever reason.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's lost to us until we're later on in life, like now, right?
• 25:32
  UNKNOWN: Mm-hmm.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: So how have things changed for you since you've come to terms with, not come to terms with, but dug deep into your understanding of what went on?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: More self-assured.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can see people who aren't helpful more quickly now.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can assess what people's motives are more quickly.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: I can communicate.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: As I'm stammering, I communicate more clearly.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I feel lighter.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a self-confidence.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we were talking earlier about boundaries.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a...
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And setting boundaries.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be just physical boundaries.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's emotional, you know, all that psychological boundaries as well because we don't allow those people or anyone like that to even get close to us anymore because it's not going to serve a purpose and not going to be a good place.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we choose not to.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's...
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, geez.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you just...
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be receptive to your own feelings.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you have to be more intuitive.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And Stockholm Syndrome, geez, that took a long time to come around.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was Stockholm Syndrome I was trying to...
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Sweden?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Sweden?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Stockholm Syndrome.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, you just...
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: You really...
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: you need to be more aware of your own feelings and not give them away so easily.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, give your heart to someone or give someone your power.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I'm saying?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think you can give them trust, but they have to earn it.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can give them your heart, but they also have to earn that.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: They also have to earn your respect.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many different aspects and pieces that go along with it.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And just...
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's self-preservation and self-protection, self-care, all those things rolled into one.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: All of those things.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: also, another really good part of recovering from all this and moving forward is to help others recognize what's happening to them.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've had a lot of people contact me and say, how did you know my story?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's interesting because i only know my story right but but then when you think about that you know you're not alone and you know you're not crazy because it's not just your story you know our story is is similar and knowing you and and knowing that that you're not sitting on the other end going You're out of your mind.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I would
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: never think that.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm just saying, when you come to terms with everything and you meet other people who have come to terms with stuff they've been through, you know that you're not nuts.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a really good thing to find out because it's...
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's affirming for you that you're on the right track.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing the right thing.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's making a difference for not just ourselves, those around us, but the world because that's what it's all about.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And to bring this full circle, then you've got the Me Too and the Time's Up that all came together.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what a process that's been to watch.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's been very interesting.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it's a great thing.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: At the same time, I personally, and this is just my personal opinion, don't feel that it had to be because Hollywood was stepping in and saying me as well, and that's why it got so much traction.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't have to take that to be heard.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or the gymnastics people either.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: However, those people weren't believed from the very beginning.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: All these gymnastics people who had reported what had been going on.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: But as much as I hate to say it, it helped move everything forward.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you have all this enormous amount of people come forward with the same story, It certainly is affirming that not everybody is making things up.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the Bill Cosby thing.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's really affirming that you're not alone and you're not crazy.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of us who suffer through this kind of abuse and the insidiousness that goes with it and all the tentacles that it goes into every aspect of your life, We all think we're nuts for the longest time, and we're all in our heads going, ah, it can't be that bad.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, this was bad, but it wasn't so bad.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: But then you keep, as you don't learn...
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: You keep picking the same kinds of people.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: I picked the same kind of men that would beat me up like my dad did.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this was a continual cycle for me.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it has a lot to do with we end up being products of our environment, and that's what we know, and that's what we think we have to have, and in some odd form it gives us comfort.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: interesting?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because it feels familiar.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: And anything else feels foreign.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you meet a good person to be in your life, and you push them away because that can't be right.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like I don't deserve that.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know, in a lot of cases, too, when there's so much drama, and I hate to use that term, but so much drama and action and, you know, things that have happened to us, sometimes, in some cases, when that happens, that doesn't happen and there's a quietness, you almost create situations because that's what you thought was normal.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I can attest to that.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I know exactly what that is.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you just wind yourself up and put yourself in the middle of a mess And I wouldn't get near a mess now if it actually walked up, shook my hand, and gave me a million dollars.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Take your mask.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Go.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Not ever.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I know you have your own business, and you were struggling a few years ago with agoraphobia, and it was difficult for you with clients and that aspect.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: How has that changed for you?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the best thing about my agoraphobia is it made me create my business.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I worked from home, which was kind of unusual for the time.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's been 22 years.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I created my business.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think my 22nd anniversary was in June.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt successful in one way, but in another way it was like I'm stuck in the house, but at least I'm stuck in the house and I can make some money with my marketing business.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a good thing.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: But now I can go out and meet with clients and You know, my agoraphobia is sort of the least of my worries.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, every once in a while I'll have anxiety, certainly, but I think everybody does.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still not keen on flying, but I did go to Chicago on a plane, you know, and that's a control anxiety thing.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm starting to really get back on the road with my book, and I'd like to take it all over again.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: I did stop for a while with my book because it became all-consuming.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing all these shows, and I was just kind of tired of talking about all of this stuff.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: So your timing with asking me to come back with this is great.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: I must have known that.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, somehow you do.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: You always know me.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess I'm ready to...
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: to take on whatever comes with this book and hopefully write another one, which is going to be a comedy.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: a comedy, meaning you're serious it's a comedy?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be about when I was dating, all through my dating life, what men have said to me and that they think it's okay.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy stuff.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I sort of categorized it for the book.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got a couple different angles I'm working on.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: to get the book out.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I just got married and that got put by the wayside and I know I got married.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Can you believe it?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations on that.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's fabulous.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it sounds like you're not letting the grass grow under your feet.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're really jumping and moving and so that's been mostly since you've written the book.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Has that been the catalyst for change for
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: you?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's been a big catalyst for change and Not being ashamed.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Telling my story was difficult, but I wasn't ashamed anymore.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was just my story.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to help.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to help other people.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew that I could not possibly be alone.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: And once I got the book launched and everything, I met you.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I met Becky Norwood, and we got in on that same co-authoring book.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I met all these people, and we all aren't
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: crazy.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, not at all.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're the normal ones, whatever that definition is.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever that is, yeah.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, whatever that is.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: We'll just make it up as we go along.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're fine.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: But, yeah, so that's wonderful.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if there was one aspect or one statement you would like to leave us, the listeners with today that you found really relevant for your life, what would you say?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: a good one, Teresa.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Surprise.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm just going to plagiarize some.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have this up on my wall and it's, Be fearlessly authentic.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Be yourself all the time.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Don't conform.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be what people expect you to be because they're a certain way you're going to temper yourself to that person's whatever.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Be authentic.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Live your life in an authentic place.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Surround yourself with people...
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: who are like you as far as being authentic and being real with you and good communicators.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: And people will only have your good, have your back that would back you no matter what.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: How's
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: that?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is that enough?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: That was amazing.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really key is to be authentic, be genuine, just be who you are because that's the only you you can be.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can't be someone else.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's their problem.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think that's part of the growing up in an abusive thing.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if I just don't say this, then I won't get hit.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't go here, I won't get in trouble.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you're tailoring yourself, right?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: to other people's cues.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're never yourself.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're just afraid.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you're trying to stay under the radar all the time so that terrible things won't happen.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what happens?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Terrible things happened anyway.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Whether or not we asked for them or not.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not that we ever asked for them, but you just need to be who you are.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're living in a life like that, you don't even have a clue who you are, what you're all about, and especially when you're a child.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just so wrong in so many ways, but I'm so glad that, you know, you found your way through it, and you're just my inspiration, and I thank you for that.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: I find you so inspirational as well.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: After knowing your story, I'm just, you know, I'm in awe that we, both of us can even stand up and speak.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and you know, we've talked about this so many times, we have so much in common, and we're not even in the same country.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: coming.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, I'm moving.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: We won't get into that
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: conversation.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime you're ready, Roberta.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Door's open.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: So listen, I would like to thank you and I will have all your information and your contact information up on the Divas That Care Network website and we'll have...
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone that wants to get in touch with you can email you or go through your website and purchase this book, The Shooting, by Roberta Brown.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was just an incredible story, and I'm so glad you wrote it.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait for the next one.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, at least it'll be funny.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's funny parts in this book.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: So the listeners know, it's not 172 pages of angst.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's observational humor that you would never expect because you've just got to.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've got to interject humor.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: No one's going to want to read that whole thing with no break.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know you're a creative lady, and I know this particular little aspect of you, that you're the crazy nail lady.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: I am the
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: crazy nail lady.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: I am the crazy nail lady.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it used to be like Cher, was it?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when Cher was, she was my inspiration, and still pretty much is my inspiration, because she's just, if I can just say it like I always say it, she's just such a badass.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she's just...
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think she wears that well.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think she wears it well.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: And from the time when she was with Sunny and Cher and she always had these long nails, she was my inspiration to become a manicurist.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then she just became my inspiration to be a better person and speak for myself the way I need to.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: And there was some quote the other day.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody walked up to her, and she's 70, how old is she, 72?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Something like that, yeah.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: She's 72-ish.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody came up to her at one of her shows and said, don't you think you're too old to sing rock and roll?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: And she said to them, you may want to talk to Mick Jagger about that.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good one.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that is, she is my hero.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, always has been.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's just be direct, and she's who she is.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, my gosh, yeah.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: And no excuses, no apologies, no nothing.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is who she is, and I've seen pictures of your nails from years ago, and I think they're interesting, and I think that's a nice creative way, and it was probably a nice creative outlet for you.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and still is.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: I may not be a manicurist anymore, but my joke is I couldn't afford me.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: if I had to go out and have someone else do my nails.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good thing I'm ambidextrous because I can do both amps with no problem.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: But, no, that's still an outlet.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's still an outlet.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think we need to have that aspect, you know, and I think it's important that we each find that one little outlet that works for us.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if it keeps us happy, it keeps us, I wanted to say sane, but that's not the right either.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know, it gives us a happy spot.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with that.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: That and
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: shoes.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, shoes, yeah.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: And shoes.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, Roberta, I want to thank you so much for being with me today.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait to see what your book turns out like, the next one.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I highly recommend The Shoulding.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone should read that.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Should, should.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you can
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: contact me on Twitter.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Twitter's probably the easiest.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Roberta Brown, author on Facebook.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's at The Shoulding.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: and the other would be Roberta Brown author and I also have a website but that will be up on there it's not as easy to get a hold of me through there but you can it'll all be on your website, I'm
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: sure.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: We'll list all of it and we'll have your photo and everyone can connect with you and I can't wait to hear what happens from this.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: be exciting.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: So excited and thank you again.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Your timing could not be better.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad to hear that.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Divas, that brings to a close another great, inspiring and fun interview on Powering Through Life.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks to my incredible guest, Roberta Brown-Elson, for sharing your thoughts and wisdom with our listeners.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: And divas, as I said, will have all of Roberta's contact information on the website and also on my website.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: So get in touch with her.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Get a copy of the shooting and please reach out.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you again for listening to Powering Through Life on the Divas That Care Network.