Latest / Pink Shade: Reality TV with Mary Payne / 955 - Bonus interview with podcaster and journalist Larrison Campbell

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955 - Bonus interview with podcaster and journalist Larrison Campbell · Pink Shade: Reality TV with Mary Payne

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Pink Shade. You guys, this is
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: a bonus episode. I've got my friend here, Laris and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Campbell podcaster extraordinary Mississippi Gal.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Hey day, thanks for having me.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, so, Laris, and last time you were here, you
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: were talking about your podcast, Devil and the Ditch. Yes,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I have got to say ding don Ditch, but that's
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: something that's.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: A totally different game, but also a really fun game
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: to play as a kid, I will say so.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: And now you have a new podcast that I believe
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: it just completed, right this week was the last one?
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Yes? Well so this what week was supposed to be
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: the last one? It turns out we're going to take
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: a couple more weeks before we drop that final bonus episode,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: which I'm going to say publicly here on your podcast
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: was solely so that we can take time to build
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: an audience. And I'm going to say, off to the side,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: was because we had a permissions issue with a couple
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: of interviews, and we're just going to do a different
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: kind of episode.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: So got it.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be a really good bonus though. Okay, I
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: think this whole new reworked version is actually going to
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: be more what the audience wants to hear.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: So okay, well, the new podcast is under the Yazoo Clay.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Now it's a great name, and I love a good
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: a good named podcast, and it's it's multi layered literally
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: because we're talking about like the Yazoo Clay is a character.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Because if you're from Mississippi, all I heard my whole
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: life was about like when you're driving in Jackson especially,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: and the roads are so terrible, and it's the Yazu
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Clay And I'm like, I think it's the Highway Department,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: but no, it's the Yazu play. It shifts so much
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: that you can't ever keep the I mean, it's just
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: like you may as well you have to have four
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: wheel tires driving to Jackson.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: It is so bumpy, the damnedest soil. And I say
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: this as a former homeowner in Jackson, Mississippi. I don't
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: think there's anybody who lives in Hines County who has
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: not had to have their foundation redone multiple times. It's
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: just it is a constant battle of like getting somebody
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: out there, getting them to like add, you know, put
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: whatever they need to do to booster foundation a little bit.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: More rack sealed all the time, and so I went
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: down there with the producing partner last April to start
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: reporting on this. And the first thing, we're having a
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: casual conversation. We're at this museum, this big museum opening,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: and the first thing they say, where we asked them
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: how the dig is going. They're doing this huge project,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: multi year project to recover these unmarked graves that have
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: been found near where the old State Lunatic Asylum as
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: it was called back in the day used to sit.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: And the first thing that I say is do you
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: know about the Yazoo clay, because it's the worst damn
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: soil ever. And I was like, well, as a matter
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: of fact, I do, but I don't know about it
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: from this angle. And it turns out and it's been
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: a huge problem for the people who are doing this
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: work to look into these graves and try to understand
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: who was buried there because the soil is actually eating
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: the remains.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: And they say, I've never seen I've never seen dirt
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: that can eat metal, but this dirt eats metal. It
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: is the wildest clay, wildest soil ever.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: It's so crazy, and it's explained at the beginning of
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: the episode, like why it is that way from the
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: minerals and then how it comes to be, and it
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: reminded me a lot. I don't know, if you've watched
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Yellow Jackets, it reminds me a lot. In Yellow Jackets,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: there's like that running river that's all red and you're like,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: what does that mean. It's like some mineral that's coming down.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: That's you know, in the theory world of Yellow Jackets,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: it's putting out some sort of magnetic field so that
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: planes go down. It's not so much in Mississippi, but
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: the podcast, the premise is and I remember when this
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: happened at the University of Mississippi Medical Center, which is,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: you know, a fantastic institution. My brother in law graduated
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: from there. All the many, many great doctors go there,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: and it's the cornerstone of you know, medical institutions in Mississippi.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: They're building on this section of it, and they go
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: to start building on this new section and they find
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: pieces and parts and bodies. Come to find out when
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: they used to have the psychiatric institution there, they buried
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: the people there and either the graves aren't marked very
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: well or over time it has just eroded so much.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: What did they say? They think it's like seven thousand
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: people were buried there is.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: That's an unbeh housing graves, that's what they think. And
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I think over the asylums, what eighty eighty five year history,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: there were a total of I think thirty thousand people
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: who walked through the doors there. So when you think
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: about that, a quarter of the people who went into
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: the asylum ended up buried there. So then it kind
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: of becomes this sort of Pandora's box, so to speak,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: of Okay, well when we look at this, like what
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: exactly are we going to find? What happened to the
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: people inside that institution that so many people died? And
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: as we looked into it, and this is one of
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: the things I really like about this show is that
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: you kind of go into it expecting that you're going
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: to be opening the doors to some gothic house of horrors,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: like people chained to radiators. Yeah, and you know, I
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: don't know, crumbling ceilings, and there is like there is
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: an element there certainly are crumbling ceilings, thank you to
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: the Yazuklay and the bad Foundation. But it's actually like
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: really complex and yes, like they didn't understand psychiatric medicine
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty years ago. So LUs people were
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: to a degree mistreated, but they also were really trying
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: to do the right thing in certain cases, in certain cases,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I should say, but it becomes this like really kind
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: of beautiful complex problem that as a Mississippian, just so
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: reminds me of the state that we come from, which
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: is full of these sort of good intentions being waylaid
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: by bad intentions with like a nice you know, little
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: like fusion of like really bad racism coming in to
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: like derail all the plans. And Yeah, it just it
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: winds up sort of being a microcosm of many of
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: the problems that Mississippi itself has.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the podcast sort to take you on this journey
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: you and you meet lots of people who say, I
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: knew about my grandmother, but I never knew what happened
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: to her. And you think, you think these people died
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: and they were never like alerted that their loved one
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: had died. There it's sort of like they put them
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: away and either weren't told or didn't think about it.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: And a lot which is very interesting that I looked
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: up while I was listening, you were talking about a
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: certain disease people had called poleegra, which was a disease
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: people had, but then it made it seem like they
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: were crazy or really it could have been cured for
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: like an antibiotic.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: It could have been cured with It could have been
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: cured with a vitamin.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Isn't that wild vitamin? Yes, like niosin?
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, niosin. And that's actually where enriched foods come from,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: which is a cool little side note, yeah, for all
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: of this, but that is the thing, like that is
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: kind of the era of quote medicine that this institution
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: existed in, which is that like one of the biggest
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: causes of mental illness and later death at that time.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: It's just that people weren't getting enough vitamin B and it's.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Crazy and it affected everybody and they you know, because
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: you can't talk about Mississippi and that era and not
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: address the racism, of course, and nobody wants to, and
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: it's really hard to talk about, but it certainly was there.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: And I loved how you came at it from that
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: angle as well, because Dorothea Dix is a figure in it.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: That was was so for these psychiatric institutions, is so
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: like I'm going to get in there as a nurse
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: and explain why it's important. And then you're like, but
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: it's wonderful that she did all that for these people
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: that were suffering. But she was a terrible racist, So
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: that's a problem, Like, oh, dang it, can't we just
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: have one thing.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: They don't tell you that when they're putting her on
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: a postage postage stamp. But yeah, Dorothea Dix turns out
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: was a huge racist, which is how she was able
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: to come down to a place like Mississippi because she's
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: from Boston, you know, and normally in the pre Civil
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: War era, people from Mississippi did not want to listen
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: to women from Boston. But she came down and she said, hey, look,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: you know what's really terrible about the treatment of your
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: mentally ill Mississippians is that they're being treated worse than
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: you're treating black people. And they said, oh lord, okay,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: well we have to find a nice facility for them.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: It actually began as a whites only institution, and then
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: after the Civil War they sort of begrudgingly and you know,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: the reconstruction and later Jim Crow era begrudgingly allowed black
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: people to come into separate and very much unequal facilities.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well, I mean I think that when you're
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: telling a story like this, which is so interesting about
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: you know, it starts off kind of macab with the
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: buried bodies, and when you really get into it and
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: you have to champion somebody like Dorothya Dix who wanted
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: to help people with mental illness, but then you also
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: have to face the truth of that era and what
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: happened and people weren't really necessarily treated equally. And I'm
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: fascinated by the fact that that place existed, and then
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: it moved to Whitfield. When the first time you said Whitfield,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I was to myself like, Okay, I wonder she's going
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: to get into it, because yes, you did. Your whole
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: life you were told if you're bad, you're going to Whitfield.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Or she's so crazy she ended up in Whitfield, or
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: so and sos you crazy, You're like Couter to Brown
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: they ended up in Whitfield. And Whitfield was always a
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: threat in your life. If you do something bad, you're
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: gonna be crazy. And with the you're gonna go to Whitfield,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: you're gonna got to parchment one of the two. Yep, Woodfield,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: it's the penitentiary.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, so I feel like galls got threatened with Field
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: more and boys got threatened more with Parchment.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I loved that you
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: touched on that in so many different people of so
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: many different age rages, saying their whole life they got
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: threatened with going to Whitfield.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing. And that's what I think is
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: so interesting about this is that you know, we all
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: existed in a post you know, Lunatic Asylum, Mississippi, but
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: there was still another version of it, and that version
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: the only thing we knew about it was that it
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: was the worst thing that could happen to you.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Right right, crazy people are there and it is what
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: you're describing, like people chained to the walls and the
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: crumbling ceilings and then not feeding them, and it's like
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: a nurse ratchet it and you're thinking of the worst
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: thing that's going to happen to me if I don't
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: like pull it together, like don't go out drinking with
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: my friends when I'm sixteen, I'm gonna go to Whitfield.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Or part exactly. You know, you have you have two
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: boyfriends at once. You're going to Whitfield.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're definitely crazy. Two boy friends at once. That
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: is so funny. I tell you, I loved that, just
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: the humor of it, because it is such a serious subject,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: but you got to put in that humorous part. And
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: of course, I, you know, as a group, lived to
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Jackson my whole life. I did not realize that there
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: was ever anything before Whitfield. And the fact that it's
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: called the lunatic asylum is so wild.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Oh that was that was the politically correct term of
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: the era. Yeah, it was real nice to refer to
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: the people who needed to go there as lunatics.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: You know, I got to go check grandma into the
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: lunatic asylum, right.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: And you do wonder why, you know, none of these
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: families ever knew that their relatives ended up there. I mean,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: when you have that kind of branding, who's going to
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: be talking about that in the family, Who's going to
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: be telling those stories?
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: And I loved the the the written ledgers that were
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: found that told from the nurses standpoint how they were
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: taking care of the patients.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, as a woman in my mid forties, it
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: is quite chilling to look down there and see the
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: number of women who were institutionalized.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: For menopause, right.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Right, like, oh there, but for the grace of God
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: and a century go.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I that's crazy, because you know, I could think back
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: growing up, and you know, my parents are in their eighties.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I think about growing up and my you know, my mother,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I'm sure probably was going through menopause and she's hot
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: and all this, and I'm one hundred percent for my
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: dad said to her many times, if you don't quit that,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: we're going to send you to Whitfield. You know, you're
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: acting crazy.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, little did they know that was actually an actionable threat.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: That's she wouldn't have been the first.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: She wouldn't have been the first to be put in
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Whitfield because she was having hot flashes and just a
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: little which was a little moody. Wow. I loved the
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: story to Laris and that it really got my heart
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: because it was you were talking to one of the
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and I don't know the correct term, the woman that
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: was archaeologist.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Oh it was a bioarchaeologist.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, So she was pulling things out and she
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: was explaining to you these things that they had found.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: It was a filling or it was a lot of rings,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: and I thought a good point was when you think
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: about the people that were burying them, they were doing
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: it with care. They weren't necessarily stealing things from the people.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I liked that. And then she told that story and
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: you caught it because she showed this certain ring and
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: then you said, well, wait a minute, I noticed that
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: you have that same phrase on a tattoo on your foot.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Now I'm imagining the way you described her is sort
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: of like a thin, wiry, gray haired, seventy something year
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: old lady that got her foot tattooed. I was like,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and it was it was from that ring. Because if
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: it's something for her husband, tell me about that, because
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: that was like really touching.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Off of that age. But then yeah, but she you know,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: I think anybody who spends their career sort of immersed
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: in death and bones and you know, sort of the
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: relics of death probably has a pronounced Macob's streak, and
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: doctor Mack has that. Like She's like, I would love
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: to go out for drinks with doctor mac She would
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: be a last. She's a good storyteller, she really thinks
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: through the stuff that she's doing, and she's the one
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: who's leading this dig, this attempt to sort of unearth
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: these graves, study them, and then help relocate them so
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: that the university can put up, you know, a building
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: on that same site. And it was a really beautiful story.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: So I noticed that, you know, we're going through this,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: and she pulls out this ring, and she points it
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: out because it is a valuable ring. It's I believe
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: this one was silver and engraved on the inside of
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: it it said ever True to THEE. And her point was,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: you know, it's so nice to see this because there
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: is this sort of myth, or at least reputation that
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: these places had that the people who worked there would
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: have taken advantage of the patients and if they had
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: some valuable they would have stolen it, and clearly they didn't,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: because this person was buried with us.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: And that person was a real person who had a yeah,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: a man or a woman or something. You know, yeah,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: must have.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Been in love at some point, you know, who had
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: this whole other life and that and that ring, you know,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: really represents a full life lived outside of this institution.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: And then I did notice that ever True to THEE
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: was tattooed on her foot and She explained that just
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: a few months earlier, her husband, who had run sort
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: of the mechanical side of the excavation. They've been partners
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: for twenty years, both you know, relationship wise partners, but
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: also work partners for twenty and he had suddenly died
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: just of a heart attack, just prop dad. It was awful.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: And he was also the person who found that ring,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: and he had been, you know, sort of running around
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: telling everybody. He was like, I found that, I found
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: the greatest relic that anyone could find. Yeah, and it
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: meant everything to him, and he was so proud of it,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: and he showed it to everybody. And then when he died,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: she got that tattoo to remember.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: It was really cool. And you also think hearing something
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: like this, or if they put it in the newspaper
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: or whatever, it's like, would somebody come forward and be like, oh,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: my gosh, that was my great grandmother's ring. You know,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I know that, you know, it's got to be It's
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: got to mean something to somebody.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm really hoping, honestly, Like that is one
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: of the big things that I want to have come
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: out of this, because you know, God blessed the University
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: of Mississippi Medical Center and their research arm that is
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: heading up this whole dig and this whole to sort
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: of tell the story of this asylum. They have gone
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: on publicity tours to like every library and the state.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: They've held talks, They've won you know, local news pieces.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: But I still don't think the story that they're really
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: looking for the family members of these people who were
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: buried there. I don't think the story has actually gotten
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: out that wide. And you know, a couple of the
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: people we spoke to are descendants of patients, and they
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: don't even live in the state of Mississippi now, so
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: you're not gonna like, they're not going to hear a
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: talk at you know, the Greenville, Mississippi Public Library. So
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I think I'm really hopeful that this podcast will actually
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: get that out there and more people can start connecting to,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: you know, their ancestors.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I love the woman. Towards the end, I don't know
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: which one of the last couple of episodes was saying
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: that she never had a place where she could say like, oh,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: my grandmother was there, you know, And she said, and
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: now at least when I drive by, I could say
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: my grandmother was buried there. You know, she never knew
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: much because her mom didn't talk much about it, just
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: like that was the grandmother. We don't know what happened
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: to her. And I think that for me, you know,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: knowing both of my grandmothers, one better than the other,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: for me, it would be really that would be really
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: weird to think, like, wow, like what happened to my
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: mom's mom, or what happened to my dad's mom or dad?
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Where are they? What you would you'd want to know?
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: And so I hope that seven towers of people. There's
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: so many people. There's so many people.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Many people, and you know, in a lot of cases
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: there's almost nothing left sometimes because of the yazoo clay.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Sometimes all that remains of a grave is the outline
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: of like where the bones were or the wow, like
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: the sort of you can tell the soil is different
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: from where the sort of wooden the pine box coffin was,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: uh huh.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: But the clay eats the wood and eats the person,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: and it eats.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: The person and you know, like we know that soil
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: over centuries and millennia, you know, can get rid of bones.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: That's why fossils are so cool. When we find them. Yeah,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: but you don't expect it in like eighty five years
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: to do that.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Wow, Well maybe that's why Jackson is always under a
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: water boil.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Jackson is always under the boil water advisory.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Because they're like, you, guys, just just get a jug
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: and keep it at your fridge because I don't know
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: what's going to happen, and maybe you boil it, it'll
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: be fine.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this about living in Jackson, But boiling
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: my water to wash dishes is not one of those things.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I tell you. So you and I, so what we
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: have in common? Really we have my sister. Okay, let's
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: explain this. I believe your parents let me next door
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: to my sister. Is that right?
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I believe that's right.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: So if you're looking at my sister's house, they were
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: on the left.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's see my parents. My parents thought were the
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: right to the right of your Okay.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: The massister, I think is four two three three four two.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, so no, my parents are eight thirty five.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: So are they on a corner?
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Though?
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: No, I could be backing it up. I couldn't make
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: it that number, and.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I think it's but well.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: They are neighbors for sure.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing about Jackson too, is that if
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: you're in the same neighborhood your neighbors and they probably
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: just referred to each other as neighbors.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: They actually could have their backyards could have touched. Actually,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: now that I'm thinking about it, that's.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: What it was actually because my parents shared backyard space
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: with like three different yeah.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh lord my sister had those three boys.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Because I feel bad. But now, and your mom is
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: interesting because your mom went to medical school like late
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: in life and became a doctor, right she did.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she went to medical school when she was in
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: her mid forties is when she started, so, which is
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: really cool. She finished her residency at the age of
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: fifty one and then practice medicine and Jackson for twenty
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: years after that.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: That is pretty That's like, a that's a great role
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: model for a mom, you know.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: It does It definitely kind of has allowed somebody like me,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: who you know, also took a solid fifteen years to
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: really figure out what my career was. It sort of
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: took some of the pressure off. I was like, well,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: you know, I can always change my career again, you
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: don't have to be locked into something that it locked
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: into a certain path at age twenty three.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Now, how often do you go to Mississippi? Because I
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: know you're working on you guys are working on the
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: final bonus episode for this under the Yazu Clay. But
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: how often do you go? And have you already started
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: a new project? Because this one was from like I
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: know it takes like a year to get this together.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was actually in Mississippi day before yesterday reporting
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: on a different show. This one's going to come out
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: in September. Junie's the Binge Network, which is also where
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: you can find Devil in the Ditch and then second podcast,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Doctor Miracle. Those are both there too that I.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Was subscribed to. I was subscribed to the Bench because
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: of those podcasts.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you well, this will be a good one. This
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: one working title is The Vanishing of Janis Rose, and
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: it's great. It's a missing person's story about a mom
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: of four little girls. She's twenty three years old, you know,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: high school homecoming queen, gets married early and then one
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: day poof is just gone and her daughter spend her
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: daughter's her sister in particular, who's a big person we
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: talked to and her friends they all spend forty five
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: years looking for her, and you know, without giving too
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: much away, they figure out what happened to her, and
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: it is the absolute last thing anybody expected.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: So and where we was this in Mississippi.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: This is in South Mississippi. She was living in Columbia.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: You know Columbia, Yeah, I do. It's right right north
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: of Louisiana and living there. And then she was sort
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: of last seen. She had a job working in like
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Pearl River County area. So it's good. It's got like
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: a nice there's a trip down to Louisiana. We go
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: down there, some thing's happened there. It gets really cajunny,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: lots of fun.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets real Cageenny. I love that. Yeah, Okay,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: so you know i'd completely forgotten about doctor Miracle told
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: will you told me about that? Because I listened to
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: that too. Oh yeah, that was crazy.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: That was crazy. That was a little less like on
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: brand for me. You know, it's California and not the
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Deep South.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Well, it was about that guru who was telling everybody
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: he could cure their cancer and whatnot.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, he is absolutely one of the worst people
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I've ever written.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: It's still around right he is very.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Much still around. I do think he was just indicted
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: on a new set of charges, which is good, so
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: he may actually you know what, No, he had already
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: been indicted when we made the podcast. He has. I
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: think he had to plead guilty to like, you know,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: again the sort of catch all of practicing medicine without
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: a license. It doesn't really get at what he did
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: because by practice practicing medicine without a license, he was
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: sort of you know, killing people because he was telling
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: them exactly the wrong thing to do to treat or
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: not treat, you know, their terminal cancer or what was
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: it they had.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, ah, god, yeah. I listened to those on
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: the bench and then but this one under the Yazoukle
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: is with iHeart.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: It is. Yes, it's my first iHeart show and they've
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: been great to work with too.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I was just at two weekends ago, I was at
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Podcast Movement in Chicago and I was at an iHeart party.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Oh that's cool. I know a ton of people who
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: are at podcast Movement actually, and I really wanted to
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: go and the timing just didn't work out. But how
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: was it fun?
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: It's fun. This is the third year I've gone. Third
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: or fourth and Dinver, we did Denver, we did La
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: and then this one was in Chicago. Now the next
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: one they have is in August, and to which I said, no,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: thank you. August and Dallas. I think I will. I
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: could just go to Mississippi and sweat if I want you. No,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: it's funny.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: I was in Dallas on Sunday actually for this next
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: show that's coming out, and it was forty three degrees
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: in April, and I would just I didn't check the
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: weather ahead of time. I was like, sure, I'll bring
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: like a sweater. No, it was so cold. It was
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: like New York cold there.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Weird.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: It was very strange, and I was a little I
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: was more than a little cranky about it. I was
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: very cranky about it.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I was telling you, I'm going to Oxford this weekend,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: and my husband was like, if you check the weather.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I was like, no, I'm sure we'll be in short
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: I'm sure I'll be dying, and he goes, no, it's
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: actually going to be like forty at night and sixty
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: in the day. I was like perfect. I was like,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I love us. Sixty during the day is the best.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: You can walk around right, you get shop ready.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: For eighty five degree weather. I am so ready for it.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: But I say this, it's now like it's forty two
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: degrees right now in New York.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: So just so, you go back and forth New York
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: wor to the Mississippi area a lot.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Often as I can. I really, and my parents actually
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: they did the unthinkable and they moved to Connecticut about
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: six months ago. I know, isn't that Connecticut? I know,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: my poor dad has never really lived anywhere but Mississippi
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: outside of his my when my mom was in med
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: school and when he was in college. The rest of
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: his life has been spent in Mississippi.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: The what Connecticut though, Larison.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Well, one of my sisters lives in the town that
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: they moved to, the other one lives about forty minutes
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: away from there, and then I'm about an hour and
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: a half away. So okay, well that makes all. Yeah,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: they wanted to be close to us. Yeah. I gotta
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: be honest with you. I think they missed the social
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: vibe of Jackson. You know, Jackson's a fun town, great people,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: good dinner parties, good storytellers, just all in all, a
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: great sort of laid back vibe. And I think they're
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: getting it with the new Canaan Connecticut crew. I don't
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: want to I don't want to say anything. I think.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I think they're just finding their feet.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I think as older people moving.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: People they've met. I want to clarify that.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, I think moving at any age,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: but especially if you're kind of older and established, and
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: then you've got to move into a new group. And
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: those people are older and established and had probably been
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: friends like people in Jackson for one hundred years, and
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: now they've got new people coming in.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Totally yeah, and I think that is that. Yeah, you're
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: breaking into a whole new social circle. And their friends
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: in Jackson were so cute. I really love their friends
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: in Jackson.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: So they were like, well, go come up north and
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: see y'all. Oh, I believe it.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: If Ivy and Frank Alli are listening to this podcast,
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: please come visit me.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Do you How did you feel about Parker Posey, our
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Mississippi girl and how great she did a white lotus
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: with that amazing accent.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: I loved it, Okay, I will say though, and I
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: am probably just betraying how a how little time I've
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: spent in Laurel, Mississippi, But how you know how long
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: I've now been back up in New York. At first,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I was like, what is that? What Parker, what is
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: that accent you're doing? And then I went and watched
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: some videos of people from Laurel and it turns out
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: she was absolutely spot on, and so now I retreated.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: But I did think from the moment I watched it,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's I saw a tweet that someone put
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: out and they said, can we get you know, can
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: we get the people at the Academy to please nominate
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Carrie Koon for Best Actress in a Dramatic Series in
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Parker Posi for Best Actress in the Comedy.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: That that is right? Yes, that nails it. Yeah, she is.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Every scene she did. And it's funny too because I
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: think of Parker Posey is so iconic and like in
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: and of but I like forgot that that's who it
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: was like. The character was so believable and so like
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: so many moms I have known throughout the year that
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I just completely yeah, I completely fell in with her character.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: It was so great. I will say randomly, this is
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: very random, but right before I got on here, I
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: got an email that was you know eight from HBO Matts,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: and this is like on my personal account not you know,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: sometimes I get like screeners whatever on the podcast. One
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: this was to my personal account, was like, did you
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: enjoy White Lotus? Would you like to take a survey?
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, yes I would because I love
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: a survey and I get these ones from NBC sometimes,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: so I don't know if that's a list I was on.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: So I took a survey about White Lotus and it
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: was like did you watch season one, two, three? Which
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: one did you like best? And it's all about you
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: know now talking about season three and it's all about
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: and every answer I was like, Parker Posi, Parker Posi.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Every answer, I was like, the characters were so good,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: like bring her back, bring her back, and I think,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: you know, Mike White had told the cast to look
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: at southern charm, get a lot of those North Carolina accents.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: So when people were saying Parker Posey wasn't so North Carolina,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, she didn't say she was from
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: North Carolina. She said she lived in Raleigh, but in
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: my mind, she's from Mississippi and moved to Raleigh because
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: she went to you and see your duke or whatever,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: and that UNC duke thing is so real just living
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: up here.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I loved it. I was like it was
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: like the two things were like kind of fighting for
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: the soul of that kid. It was like going to
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: have a UNC soul or is he going to have
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: a duke soul? Like which one?
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: It was so good, but I just there's so many
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: catchphrases from her. I mean, the one that you know
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: speaks to me to muscles. Now I have to drink
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: myself to sleep. I was like, that's so good. It's like,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: don't judge me, I'm your mother. I sent that to
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: my kids. We so many times in the last month.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Don't judge me, I'm your.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Mother, my partner and I now just anytime something surprising happens,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: it's Piper No.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: No, oh, who do nammy? I loved it so much. So,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I she and I are the same age
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and in the same you know, graduating high school class.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: And she her twin brother, Chris Posey used to date
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: my friend Gigi for years, and my friend Tom Paulson
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: is very good friends with her, and so he goes
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: I could just shoot her a note and see you,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: she'll do your podcast.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: I said she should absolutely come on this show. But
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: she said the whole thing in a Southern accent.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: I said, oh Tom, I said, that's not that's not
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: how it works. Like you can't just Textpiker Parker Posey
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: and and ask her a couple of my podcasts. He goes, well,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: sure I could, Well you could, but they're going to
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: send me to her agent, her PR person, her market
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: that HBO max whatever. So now that the show is
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: completely over, I'm going to wait a week or two,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna be like, maybe now that I
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have to go through like HBO channels, maybe just
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: her personally and like her whoever is her booker, maybe
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I can do it.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I get the like the since I get from Parker Posey,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: said Parker pose He does what she wants to do
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: like and everyone else sort of just has to fall
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: in line behind it. And that's probably true for her
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: press people. So yeah, I like your plan.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I like it too. I mean, if I tell you
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: that Days Dion Confused is a movie that changed my life,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: and you know she's in it as that mean high
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: school girl, so good.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so good, my freshman bitches.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, has him lay on the ground of fry like bacon.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. I was like, thank god, we didn't
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: have that at Jackson Proupe.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I'm disappointed Jackson Prep didn't have that. I feel like,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: you know, at the Washington School in Greenville, we all
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: assumed that Jackson Prop was very much like that.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: No, or maybe I just wasn't cool enough to be bullied.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. That's that's you know what I think.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: I just answered my own question. Oh my gosh. Well,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I'm excited about this other project that you're working on
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: because I love a good true crime murder mystery. Thank you.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really excited about this one too. It's it's
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: more sort of tonally in line with Devil and the Ditch.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: It's just a different kind of Mississippi community and a
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: different but it's very much a family drama, and I
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: love a family drama. Gets me back to my soap
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: opera roots.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: So speaking of family drama, since Devil and the Ditch
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: came out and many people and you and I talked
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: about this, would I talk to you about it? And
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: then we talked about it with my own family murder
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: that happened, you know, Yeah, way when my dad was little.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: But that's on the Patreon guys if you want to
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: hear it. But your cousin was featured very heavily in that,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: with lots of people having suspicions on him for the
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: murder of your grandmother. And right that your cousin, right.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my dad's first cousin.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your dad's first cousin. So I just want to
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: make sure I was because it wasn't an uncle, it
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: was a cousin.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: No, but I mean like generationally uncle, you know.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And you talk to him at the end of
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: it as sort of like a bonus, and you sat
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: outside because he didn't want you to come in the
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: house because he had a little bit of a warning issue,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: and he kind of explained to you what it had
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: been like all those years, like to be a suspect
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: that he would say, like, I'm not going to talk
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: about it anymore, but then he would keep talking about it,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: And do you think people around Greenville still think he
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: did it?
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: I know they do. They send me dms all the time,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: like it is, every every three months I get one
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: from somebody in Greenville being like, you know, you know
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: what I just heard he did? And you know, come on, Larson,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: why didn't you just come out and say he did it?
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, I didn't have the actual evidence
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: to do that, but yeah, you can't say that that
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: the town of Greenville has solved the case in the
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: town of Greenville's mind. And you know, I whether they're
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: right or wrong, I guess at this, given the information
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: we have, we might never know.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: We'll never know unless somebody confesses.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, yeah, I know. Well that's another thing.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: I actually got a dm about this very recently. Someone
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: was like, do you think he's going to confess on
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: his deathbed? And I was like, I do not think
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: that he's going to confess on his deathbed. I don't
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: see that happening. I think if he did do it,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: and you know, Jerry is still out, but I think
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: if he did do it, he has convinced himself he didn't, right.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I think we can get ourselves to believe just about
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: anything that we want, and I think there's a lot
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: of motivation for him to convince himself that something different happened.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And he lives in a pretend land anyway, you know,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: he does in the same world that.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: You and I live in, does he have like friends,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: he still goes to church? Does anybody like seem but
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: says like at the grocery store, he still.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Goes to church. He has a couple of friends. I
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: think it's more people who sort of look after him
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: than actual, you know friends the way we think of it.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: But he does still have you know, he still has
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: some people who look after him.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: And how old he is?
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Seventy for Oh, okay. I have called him a couple
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: of times to check in. He'll send me text messages
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: at like two am, sometimes usually having to do with
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: the Libertarian Party in Greenville.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure that's live and kicking in Greenville. The
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Libertarian Party. I'm sure that's. Yeah, he's the head of it.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: If it sort of tells you anything about the groundswall
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: of support that they have. But yeah, So, like I'll
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: hear from him occasionally, and you know, I feel like
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: I don't like the idea that anybody is sort of
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: marooned socially.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, he was.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: He was kind enough to be honest with me for
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: this project, and so I feel like I should be
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: kind enough to you know, check in on him.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so, I think you handled it perfectly,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: and I think that Yeah, a lot of people just
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: think he did it and there's no other choice. And again,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: you know, once he once he is no longer with this.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: You guys may go through that house and find something,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: you know, if if you get a get an excavator
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: in there. I don't know.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I thought of going through that house is terrifying, but.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Also fascinating, I know. Okay, Well tell everybody where they
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: can follow you and find out more about of course
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Devil in the Ditch Doctor Miracle and the new one
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: under the Yazoo Clay, and then of course the new
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: one that's going to come in September. I'm excited.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, please go ahead and subscribe to the bench Vanishing
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: of Janis Rose. And yes you can find under Yazoo
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Clay wherever you get your podcast. It's Apple Spotify, iHeart,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: and you can follow me on all the socials at
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: This is Larison Larison. You guys.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: If you ever wonder about an interesting Southern name, Laryson
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Campbell is a good one. Thank you, a good one.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Had a conversation yesterday with a podcaster Molly McLear and
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: she said from Boston and she lives in La and
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: she said at the end we were talking, she because
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: I just, you know, I understand, like it's Mary Pay,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: but this was we weren't recording, and she says, but
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I'm just so interested. Why because it really sounds like
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: like a roller Derby name or like a drag name
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: that like I'm made up and it's like an entendre
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: with the pay and e. She's like, I'm dying to
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: know about it. I was like, oh God, I wish
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: it was that fun.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I really wish now that you did roller Derby, because
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: that is a.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: It really is. I'm not tough enough or even roller
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: skates by knocking me over? Are you kidding? But no,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: it was like and so I, you know, I said,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: let me just break it down for you. In the South,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: you know a lot of people will take a maiden
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: name or a middle name of my dad and then
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: that's where it comes from my grandfather, George pank Gosser.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: If they had a bunch of boys all all down
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: the road, George pan Gosser, my dad, you know, had
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: his third kid. I assume he thought it would be
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: his last. And he was like, well, I guess I'm
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: not going to have a boy. So I got to
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: throw in pain and that's how I got it. And
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't like it, and I didn't like it then
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: and I don't like it now and I have to
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: explain it every day in my life. But it's my
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: name is She's like fascinating. I mean she was fascinated.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to find the audio my sisters and I did,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: my sister's and my mom and I did. We were
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: coming back from the beach and in the car we
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: just recorded all the double Southern names that we could
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: think of, and I put it on my Patreon. Is like,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: it mean a terrible audio. We're in the car, but
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: I mean it's it's like thirty minutes of us just
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: throwing out double names for people to understand.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, I've actually got some really good ones
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: if I can add them onto the pile. My best
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: friend growing up Mary Winston. Yeah, another really good friend
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Ellen Douglas, and another and then my cousin was and Dyer,
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: which I think all like really great. All follow the
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: same pattern of women's name first, yea family name.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Second yeah, I said a lot of it is and
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: something Mary something, and I was like, you know, we
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: know Anne McCaslin, we know, and she's like, what I mean,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: she just could not, but she was. She was like,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: I'm always so interest to learn these like regional things,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: and I was like yeah, and a lot of.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: People like they'll like do a satire of a Southern
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: sorority girl and it'll be like Mary Claire or like
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Mary Mary Susan, And no, that's not the real that's
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: not the real South, the real South. You got to
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: have the family name.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Second, Yeah, you got to have that weird middle name
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: that people think is your last name and just call
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: you Mary, even if you explain it and they still
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: call you Mary, and then you go, you know, we're
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: probably by it. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think Mary
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Larison or Ann Larison would be a great name.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well Larison. As these things go, Larson is my
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: middle name, so yeah, I have. My first name is Alleen,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: so it's Allen Larison Campbell. I was named for my grandmother,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: whose first name was Allen and last name was Larison.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: So well, my sister is named Finny pattern.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: My grandmother's name was Elizabeth Finnie, so my sister n
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Finny Elizabeth, you know. And then my sister Tay is
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: named after my mom's maiden name, which was Taylor. So
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: she's Tay.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: That's l Tay is a nickname for Taylor.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: It's so funny because you know, Taylor is such a
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: popular name now and it doesn't occur to me at
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: all that Tay's name is Taylor ever, even though it
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I mean legally it's not anymore. She legally changed it
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: to Tay Cosser Morgan. But instead of Margaret Taylor cost her.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's anybody says Tay and then they say
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: that Tay for like a nickname for Taylor. It doesn't
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: even like put together to me that that's my sister's name.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: That's so funny. Yeah, I love I love the style.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: I love naming people after people and you know, the
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: family and stuff like that.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I tell my friends, you know, when they were all,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: you know, having babies, and a lot of them have
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: babies way before me. I was always like, just think
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: about it, just think about the name. If you think
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: they're ever gonna move, just I'm here to tell you. Yeah,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: it's rough.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a double name. I know. I know. And
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: actually one of my friends recently had could and she
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: was like I just I really want to call her
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: by her middle name, and I was like, please, don't, don't, don't,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: don't do not do it, like I know you don't
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: think it sounds it's pretty when you read it all out.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: But it will make her life easier if she doesn't
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: have to have a separate name at the doctor's office.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it'll life somehow. Informs It'll say, like for you,
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: it would say like Alien Laris and Campbell, and then
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: it would say nickname, yeah, and then you could put
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: laris and as your nickname.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: They don't they don't look at that. They don't care.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: They just see the first one and they're just like Alane,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: which is you're like And then I don't hear them
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: when they call me in the waiting room I.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Had yesterday in the waiting room at the doctor's office.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I heard Mary Mary, and this lady hopped up and
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: walked in. They said, are you marry Gilbert? She goes,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: oh no, She walked back, and I go, I guess
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I'm Mary Gilbert here I am. It's not my name.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I literally plaining double names to you now on the way.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I don't care. Is I'm the doctor's office, not going
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: to see you. It's one of those once a year doctors.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, I don't care. That's fine, but I
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: have been coming here for twenty four years and you
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: still don't have it right. But that's okay. Both my
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: children here, but it's fine. Everybody follow Larison Campbell. She
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: is a wonderful podcaster. She is a real life journalist
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: and she's serious business you guys, but funny at the
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: same time too.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you. It is always so much fun coming on
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: your show.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: So this is a bonus episode. People love when I
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: talk to podcasters back from my paint in the pod day,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: so I love it when I have a podcaster that
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: I know. I'm like, let's come on, let's talk podcast.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, don't hang up, thanks guys, all right, ads not
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: read by me Mary Payne don't necessarily reflect the views
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: of pink Shade. If you'd like to listen to ad free,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: you're going to go on over to super cap or Patreon,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: and you can find the links to pink Shade Prime
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: at pinkshadepodcast dot com.