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How Alfie Built His Own Path in Vet Med · Under The Fur

• speaker-0: Hello and welcome again to another episode of Under the Fur. I am very happy to be joined today by a male vet, Alfie, who has been practicing for eight years and we're gonna learn a little bit about his story and where he's at now. Thank you very much for joining me, Alfie. I was just mentioning earlier that I can't believe you're only eight years qualified. speaker-1: Thanks for having me. Yeah, yeah. It feels a lot longer than that though. speaker-0: Yeah, now I feel really old because I'm like at least double. ⁓ and then the other thing that I learned was that you went ⁓ sort of like ⁓ not a direct route into veterinary. You did an undergraduate degree. Yeah. But you wanted to be a vet. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so I did an undergraduate degree and then at the time trying to study veterinary medicine as a postgraduate was pretty expensive. So then a bunch of friends and I looked at alternatives, which took us to Central Europe and Slovakia, where we studied for four years and had the best time. Yeah. Came back over. speaker-0: I reckon it was fun in Slovakia. speaker-1: It was great. So I mean at the time, you know, the pound to the euro was pretty strong. Yes. And it was super cheap. And we had this little community of international students. and, you know, our monthly living expenses were next to nothing. I mean, you could go out into the town and there's a there's a place called the one euro bar. And it's literally every drink is a euro. And in Slovakia, it's not like, you know, if you ordered a vodka and coke, you get a glass of vodka and you get a glass of coke. So you know, two euros and that's your night. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. Were they actually wondering what you wanted to do with the Coke? Like, what's the Coke for? Use your vodka, we know the function of that. I bet that was back when it was two euros for a pound as well. Yeah. About that exchange. Yeah, remember those glory days. They're they're gone. Yeah. Long, long gone. Yeah. so your undergraduate degree was in what was that in? Okay, I don't know what that means. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ exactly, yeah. Bio veterinary science. I I guess it's the veterinary equivalent of biomedical science. So it's more research focused. Okay. I think a pretty good foundation for anyone who wants to become a vet, I guess, but totally different. More focused on research, right? speaker-0: Yeah. And then a four year post grad degree. Yeah. In a fun place. Yeah. I'm a bit jealous because I went to Cambridge and it was not that fun if I'm honest. It was like I think I appreciate Cambridge now that I've left it. Like when you go back and visit, you're like, ⁓ this is a cool place. Look at the buildings and the rivers and everything. Yeah. But ⁓ I remember going there, literally I was in the Ronda Valleys when I was younger and we were speaker-1: I mean it's cool though. speaker-0: Wild, like wild untamed animals. And then I went to Cambridge and everyone was just like a bit more refined and well behaved and it's like what am I doing here? And now I'm thinking maybe Slovakia. Maybe I should have gone to Slovakia. ⁓ speaker-1: I mean ⁓ definitely a a a culturally rich experience. Yeah. ⁓ you know, I think a few of us could end up speaking Slovakian towards the end of it. I mean to get around not fluently. Yeah. but yeah, and I mean speaker-0: You speak some Slovakian for us now. speaker-1: I can remember the word pivo, which means beer. ⁓ Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. That's about it at this point. speaker-0: You've got swear words and you can order a drink, right? Yeah. Yeah. The basics of any speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ but I mean location wise it was perfect because it's in Central Europe, you know, you've got Budapest two hours hours away, yeah, Prague, yeah, not too far away, Poland. So you know, it also allowed us to travel as well. It's an incredible experience. speaker-0: Nice. I think that's really good because ⁓ most people I speak to are literally standard, went to school, did A levels, got into a British vet course and then became a Brit, ⁓ a vet in Britain. ⁓ so it's nice to see like a different route to do it. ⁓ and then also now there's that introductory course to veterinary, isn't there? Which I told ⁓ my god, this is really bad. I'm sorry, we had to talk about you, but this is a funny story. So basically there's got now ⁓ there's a couple of ⁓ Actors at VetsNow and they told me that they were doing this other course, which is like a pre pre-clinical course. So if you don't get the grades to get onto veterinary, you do this pre-clinical course. And if you pass that, you get to go onto veterinary. And basically for years I've been telling people that was a fake course. ⁓ That wasn't a thing. Because people were saying I was like, ⁓ they're just lying. You can't actually do that. There's no pre-clinical course. ⁓ my god, it actually exists. So yes, this is this different route now. ⁓ And I'm really sorry to all those people I told it was fake. speaker-1: You might end up employing one of them. See it was speaker-0: Yeah. Sorry about that. I hope you made it in the end. ⁓ so you like ⁓ there was quite a few you must have like really wanted to be a vet because you're like, I've done this first degree and I'm being I'm gonna be a vet. I'm gonna go to Slovakia, I'm gonna do the vet course. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean ⁓ like it I hadn't really considered anything else since being a boy, right? I think that's the common theme amongst most vets. Yeah. and it was just a a a means to an end at the point. I little did I know just how good it would be. It was just, you know, that's what I need to do to get to where I want to be. And it was a no brainer. 'Cause then you know, when you add the financial equation and what the outcome would would have been, it you know, yeah it sort of added up perfectly. Yeah. ⁓ and it was fun. And you know, we were going over there as as a bunch of mates anyway. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of students then from from the UK and all over the world actually then followed on after us. Yeah. so it it was it was really unique because there's also medical school and a dentistry school. So you'd in in the in the east of Slovakia, in this little town in a in a valley, ⁓ you had this super vibrant international community of students ⁓ who are actually just having a good time. And honestly, it was such a good experience. ⁓ I mean you have to be a certain character to be able to adapt and to cope with it because the approach to education is entirely different. You know, you are not really cared for in a sense. You're taught and the rest is on you. So a lot of it is self taught. So you have to be really driven to to succeed there. And also, you know, it was different to being here in the UK. So whenever like, you know, during the breaks and stuff, some holidays, we were out here doing our EMS, you know, spending lots of time in in clinics, which actually, you know, lined us up pretty well for the end. Whereas if you were entirely reliant on the university offering that, I think you'd have found clinical life quite difficult. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Now now I'm thinking maybe I was better off in Cambridge. I don't know if I would have been driven enough. Yeah. And then when you so when you qualified, you came straight back to the UK. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you didn't think to practice in like Slovakia or anything. The aim was always to come back. speaker-1: Yeah. I mean and that was the common theme amongst us all. We were there do our course, finish and then come back home. So most of us all had jobs to come back to at the point. You know, 'cause we had all spent lots of time in particular practices and built relationships and built up our skills there. ⁓ so it was just a matter of formally qualifying. speaker-0: And then you had your job lined up. Okay. So where did you work then when you came back? speaker-1: I worked at the Molsey Veterinary Center in East Molsey. it was a big big practice with ⁓ on site out of hours. Yeah. And ⁓ the team when I was there were were and I'm sure they are now, but they they were really brilliant and supportive. ⁓ had, you know, some really experienced vets around me which also took the time to teach me and, you know, didn't make me feel bad if I didn't know the answers to these speaker-0: And rich me, you Vital. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: And and and they fed my enthusiasm, you know. I wanted to be in surgery, I wanted to be there for the interesting cases out of hours. And I also lived round the corner which helped. Yeah. And and they supported that and and you know, fed it, fed me that. I remember one of their out of hours vets, I I said, you know, I really wanted to see a G D V and ⁓ you know, I I just begged them o when I went home, call me if something comes in, please. And they did. Yeah. And, you know, I gotta cut my first G D V within, you know, six months of being a A new grad. So that was with the support of of these really experienced vets, you know. And it it you know, that first job or those first experiences really mold you and and sort of craft your your path, right? speaker-0: Amazing. Yeah, absolutely. But I also think you have to be the right person to get that as well. Because for me, if I've got staff coming in and wanting to learn, I need to see that they want to learn. I need to see the keenness. And then I'm gonna pick up the phone and I'm gonna bring them in, or then I'm gonna teach them. ⁓ which is nice to see because ⁓ there's a little bit of a change. I can't say I can't slug off Gen Z too much because they'll come for me. But ⁓ like so that they're like my work life balance, I need to go home and sleep, and it's so different to how we were. I was like, I don't need any sleep. Call me in for surgery. I don't care what it is, I will come. So yeah, like I I understand what they're saying and it's very lovely for them from their work life balance. But it's good to see someone so keen that you went home and you said, if there's a T D V, I will come, just call me and I wanna learn. Yeah. And that's probably how you've advanced quite quickly because you've put yourself out for the opportunities. speaker-1: And I had the people there who had the time for me, right? And and to coach me. But you know, I think, you know, the the new generation of vets coming through, they also hold us accountable to make sure that we look after our people. Whereas before, you know, when you qualified, you know, you probably did on call out of hours after doing a day shift, right? And then and then it being expected to be there the next day. And really, how sustainable is that? And is it good for a person? And are they a good vet off the back of that? I mean you are, but you know, does that break? speaker-0: If I spent time with a therapist, they might not say that was the best thing. And that's why I'll never go. ⁓ Yeah, well, actually I had someone on recently. We were talking, she had a terrible experience. She qualified the same time as me and she left practice because she wasn't supported. ⁓ she felt like, you know, like the imposter syndrome. ⁓ she felt burnt out and ⁓ it didn't work for her, like that culture, not at all. So yeah, for sure. Though all those people. And I read a statistic recently. it was it was high. It was over forty percent of vets leave the profession before four years. Yeah. Which is horrendous because like you've put seven years of training in, right? Yeah. To get there to be a vet. I did six years and like you said, that we never thought of any other profession. I literally have never thought of another profession that I wanted to do. ⁓ so if you do that and you do all that work and then you're gone. with less than four years. It's awful. Yeah, we have to ⁓ protect protect the new generations. speaker-1: How sad is that? Well, exactly. And ⁓ you know, I I we still need to equip them with the tenacity to be able to cope with the job, but also protect them as human beings, right? Yeah. ⁓ and it's a fine balance between, you know, being there to nurture someone, but also allowing them to grow as an individual. Yeah. ⁓ still trying to figure out how to do it. speaker-0: Yeah, I was gonna I probably we should get my new grads on, actually. We can ask them how I'm doing with ⁓ that. ⁓ so then I'm super interested in ⁓ so I met you more when you were gonna start to open your own practice. Yeah. ⁓ and we had a chat. I don't know how helpful I was, but ⁓ it was really interesting and ⁓ you've done an amazing job. So tell me. speaker-1: Yeah. Well it comes down to people, doesn't it? ⁓ well one having a really supportive community around me, ⁓ you know, to ⁓ to to put those fears to bed, you know, when you're going into business ⁓ at at that point in your career, it's quite daunting. ⁓ and we're also not trained in it. Absolutely at all. and you know, I was again very fortunate to have these, you know, brilliant people, you know ⁓ speaker-0: So you know speaker-1: part of, you know, the mastermind group, yourself, ⁓ my old boss, ⁓ and and really good business partners to support me on this journey. so it all sort of just fell together. we found the ⁓ the location. I actually dismissed it at first because I was really disappointed that I'd lost the initial building that I'd fell in love with, which I'm glad I we did. But at the time it was it was heartbreaking. And I remember going past the building that we set the practice in, set it up in, and dismissing it. And then ⁓ my partner at the time convinced me to to just go and look at it. And then actually when I went in there, I thought, this is great, you know. And then when I looked at, you know, the key features that you need to set up a veterinary business, it it ticked a lot of those boxes. and then it just sort of steamrolled from there. and then, you know, I I ⁓ also again met some great people who wanted to partner up with me. and and that relationship was ha was and as, has and is great. and and they gave me that that support that I needed both from a financial perspective but also a business mentorship and ⁓ personal mentorship as well. Cause as well as setting up a business, you know, there's some demands on you as a person, as an individual. Yeah. ⁓ and you know, having for me, having that support was really important. ⁓ speaker-0: So were they other vets that you partnered up with? speaker-1: ⁓ one of them is, ⁓ and the others aren't, no. Yeah. They're just ⁓ so the business was owned ⁓ equally between me and them. Yeah. So there was three on their side and and me. And and we yeah, so it was a fifty fifty co-ownership. So there was no catches, nothing. It was just, you know, based on trust and and wanting to do deliver a good job. Great. yeah, and and we thrived on that. speaker-0: How many partners do you have? speaker-1: But it wasn't just that, of course. That's just the beginning of it. It's the people in the building doing the job who are there day to day. And throughout this whole journey, working with them has been my absolute favorite and finding them because, you know, when you first meet them and they're nervous and you're in an interview and then you start to get to know them and and you know, over over over time y y y y the the relationship is so personal. I mean, it's still professional, but from my perspective and the gratitude I have towards them. Yeah. Is is so deep. And I mean, they probably don't even realise that they mean that much to me. Even though I I tell them as much as I can just how important they are, they probably don't realise that from a personal perspective, it actually is huge because you're going into this venture and terrified and hoping it's gonna work and they turn up every day and do a great job. Yeah. and and you grow with them and you know that that gratitude really is is is very personal. And they're also good professionals as well. Yeah, exactly. Which is speaker-0: Yeah, it's literally everything. It's such a intense environment. Like you just need to all be in the trenches together. Yeah. And the ⁓ there's obviously like days where everything goes amazing. It's all to plan. We all have a lunch break. We all leave on time. And then there's times where like shit's hitting the fan. Yeah. And everybody's got each other's back. And I just think it's amazing. Like I absolutely love my team. Like there's not a mem a single member of my team that I wouldn't go to the ends of the earth for. Like they're amazing. So ⁓ yeah, it's tot you're you're all in it together. And speaker-1: Yeah. And I would argue that's probably a common theme across our sector. In its own little pockets. Yeah. You know, where, you know, for for the patients, so many people will do so much. Like I had a an an emergency hema abdomen come in and and I and I one of my nurses was coming to it was coming in anyway and and I you know, I I text her, you know, saying, I've got this, you know, coming in. Are you are you up for it? And speaker-0: I agree. speaker-1: She didn't say yes or ⁓ maybe it was like I'll be there in like five minutes. You know. And and and we were there till like four AM. Yeah. ⁓ and in that time it was all just, you know, the can do attitude and and you know, we're here for the patient. Yeah. you know, she didn't need to be there. Yeah. and no word of complaint, just just just turning up. Yeah. And speaker-0: Just level of commitment to patience and like how much you care and stuff. And I ⁓ it's been difficult a few months with what's like in the press and everything about vets and I feel like they're really coming first. And it's like stories like this where you're just like someone will drop everything to come and save a life. It's a four in the morning. No questions asked. Just like you said, like speaker-1: And we were really fortunate because the the clients actually were in the building and we didn't shield them from anything. I said to them, Yeah, you know, your options are to go to the out of hours clinic or ⁓ you know, my nurse is gonna come in and and we're gonna do this here now. ⁓ and they chose for us to do it. And they didn't leave and you know, we've got a staff room and we you know, if you wanna you wanna go rest in the staff room, go for it. Yeah. They they were in the prep room with us while we were getting their dog ready while we anaesthetized them and then they had to to shift off. and during the surgery they were upstairs and once we finished, they then came back downstairs because you know I advise them to not be around during surgery. Because you know what can happen. and once the patient was recovering, they came back down and and helped us look after their dog overnight. And and I've got a photo of of the client. I yeah I call them mum and dad. Yeah. th th the dog was was there in the kennel and she was sharing half the kennel with her dog. Yeah. And, you know, she fell asleep there and we were doing a blood transfusion and everything and I was monitoring things while the two of them were asleep. And it was it was honestly a a really heartwarming moment. 'Cause then not that I need a reminder, but that was a very clear reminder of why we do what we do. Yeah. And and the value that it has in our society. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, moments like that. speaker-0: I love that you allowed that as well. We're pretty similar at at the vet station. Like we clients can come in and they their patients are inpatients, they can sit there. We're not like you know, there used to be this old like idea that if you come in you upset your dog or cat or whatever and so you shouldn't come and visit while they're in hospital. And ⁓ I'm totally against that. I'm like, no, come and see them, come and help us feed them, like be involved in their care and everything. That's so lovely that you let her come in and that they fell asleep together. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-1: Well, I mean it's not ⁓ we can't do it on every scenario, but in that particular one, you know, i it was possible and and they were the right people for it. Because, you know, not everyone wants to see their dog recovering from a major surgery or can stomach it, right? Yeah. But for those that that want to be part of it, be part of that patient care journey, by all means, we bring ⁓ in because then they understand the value of it. Because when I gave them the estimate of what that would cost, which is a significant amount. There were and you know, they're paying for this out of their own pocket and and their words were, Is that it? And you know and this was ⁓ Right. speaker-0: When does that ever happen? Wow. Exactly. speaker-1: And and then, you know, they detailed everything we had done and said, Well, that's what that costs. Yeah. You know, and they were expecting much, much more. ⁓ and that just brought it home as, you know, w how much they valued what we had just done for for them and and and their dog. Yeah. and that's a stark contrast to what we face on a day to day basis and what the media's been all over us about, right? speaker-0: But also I think like sometimes we just remember the negative ones, but there are actually so many clients like that, that will say amazing things about you, that will value your time and your input. And there's people out there saying, you know, ⁓ yeah, ⁓ my old vet, Alfie, when he was there, saved my dog's life and stuff like that. And ⁓ then you you know, you can get one negative complaint or someone saying something bad about you and it's the end of the world, isn't it? 'Cause you forget like all these amazing clients that are out there because the negative ones hurt so much. ⁓ that's such a nice story to share. I love that. you're also a working dad. So how are you balancing that? You opened your own practice and your daughter is how old is she? speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. I've got two daughters. one's eleven going twelve and the other one's fourteen months. ⁓ speaker-0: So it was the older one that liked my hair. Yeah. Very much. Yeah. speaker-1: In fact, she got some temporary spray for last summer. Did I think I left How do I manage? Well, the mum. But yeah. Yeah. I otherwise I couldn't. Big time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. That's there's no other answer. speaker-0: Excellent. She's picking up the load. I have the same I mean, I'm asking you 'cause I ask that question all the time. My husband does a l he does all of the school runs pretty much, takes them to all their clubs and ⁓ he actually gives me a protein shake on the way out the door now 'cause you know sometimes I don't eat. I mean I eat, but I eat all in one go. I'm not like on time or whatever. But yeah. Yeah, it would be really difficult without actually the an amazing partner. speaker-1: Liquid breakfast. Just I you know, some some w someone or some something will suffer as a result. ⁓ and and it's the reality of, you know, being in business is or this business at least that there are sacrifices. Yeah. You know, like doing a surgery in the middle of the night on a Friday instead of chilling out, you know. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. And and those are the the unseen sacrifices, right? Yeah. ⁓ but it's also important to to recognize the impact of those sacrifices and those people that are a are there to support you through it. Because, you know, the intensity of our job is quite unforgiving. Yeah. ⁓ and that's why, you know, these negative ⁓ this negative feedback or reviews hit so hard because you give so much for it. And for someone to view it in a negative light, despite how much of your personal ⁓ your your person you've given to it and your personal sacrifices, it it hurts. Yeah. ⁓ and you have speaker-0: I always said when I opened, like my family sacrificed. You might say I sacrificed and I was working these hours and whatever, but actually my family sacrificed a lot. My, you know, my kids when I first opened, I was doing six days ⁓ by myself. Plus we would stay overnight with our patients. So I was like, I didn't really see my kids during that time. So there were sacrifices that they made. So don't be mean to us. Exactly. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ but it's also a great story for them and and you know, for them to see as well. yeah, I've got a photo where as a family we were in the prep room and we set up camp beds and there's pizza and I'm looking after the patient and the whole family are there. And and you know that that's that's quite a magical ⁓ memory for for her. Yeah. ⁓ but it's also I think very valuable for them to see, you know, your daughter seeing you. thrive and seeing what you're doing, she's learning lessons that cannot be taught until you're in that position, right? And hopefully it'll mean something when they're older. That's what I tell myself. Hopefully. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ I did ask her the other day, I was like, What do you wanna be when you're older? It does change frequently. It used to be rock star. She doesn't even play any musical instruments, but that's fine. and she said, I'm gonna be a doctor. And I was like What? What do you mean a doctor? Not a vet, she's like, No. I wanna be a doctor. I can't believe it. speaker-1: What? speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think my son wants to be a vet either. Yeah. Well he currently wants to be a footballer, so was he? Fair enough. speaker-1: My eldest has been pretty firm that she doesn't want to be a vet. She doesn't? Like, well good for you, you know. Yeah. Fine. It it does cut a little, but fine. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. I know. Like, but look how great this is. Yeah. At one point, ⁓ she I had to take the kids in with me to work a few times. Like we had a lady that had ⁓ a Frenchie, so I needed a cesarean, right? So I was like, okay, here's my personal number. I will come in and do the cesarean for you. So of course it was the day when John wasn't around and she calls me and I'm like, okay, okay, I'm coming. And it was late. speaker-1: Yeah, and they're thinking great. speaker-0: So I wake the kids up and I'm like, guys are going to work. And they're like, what? ⁓ so they come in with me. And this was a couple of years ago, so they would have been nine and seven, say. I just trying to remember how old my kids are, and that's fine. And ⁓ so they come in. ⁓ my son really doesn't give a crap. I'm like, look, puppies, and he's like, Can I watch YouTube? And then my daughter, she loved it. She was like reviving the puppies for me. It was amazing. So I can't remember the point of this story, but yeah, they came in. They came in to work. ⁓ and then they had to go to school the next day. ⁓ and I remember emailing the school and be like, FYI, they might be a little bit tired, but they saw puppies be involved. School were pretty cool about it. Cassius had fallen asleep on a sleeping bag or something while he was in school. But yeah, so then I'm thinking like, ⁓ they've seen they've seen surgery already. ⁓ and a few years later, my daughter was like, speaker-1: Ha ha ha. speaker-0: You know generally kids don't watch stuff like that, Mum. I was like, I didn't even cross my mind. I just thought, yay, this is fun. So yeah, I don't know if that was the turning point when they didn't want to be vets or I in my mind I was like, now they're gonna love it. They're gonna wanna do this too. speaker-1: Funny that. Well when you think about it, it's it's not altogether a bad thing that from that experience they turned around and said, No, I don't wanna do that, you know. Cutting open a dog and bringing puppies out of it. Yeah. Yeah. If if anything, it would be a little strange if they turned around and said, Yes, that's exactly speaker-0: Yeah, that gruesome surgery. That's what made me want to be a vet At least they'd have a reason because like now people ask me, Why do you want to be a vet? Like what made you decide? And I'm like, I don't know, I was kinda born with it. Like I already decided when I was younger, there was no reason for it. They could say, This one time my mum took me to it. Yeah, but ⁓ yeah, that's not gonna happen. So I don't know who I'm gonna pass the legacy to. I'm gonna have to find someone else. ⁓ and on that note speaker-1: Definitely want to cut open it. speaker-0: You're sold your legacy. speaker-1: Yeah, well well, ⁓ not really. I've sold my first business. Yeah. speaker-0: Tell me, what happened? speaker-1: Well, the opportunity came by. I mean it's a lot sooner than I ever ever expected or anticipated. W when the discussion started? nineteen months. speaker-0: You've been open for how long? Less than two years. Wow. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ you know, I was only just getting to grips with it. Yeah. And and that wasn't on my radar. but one has to be pragmatic about things as well. you know, there's a a trade off between a a a business sense and an emotional vet sense. Yes. And the two are constantly I mean, ⁓ day to day there's a constant collision, right? Even for associates, let alone practice owners. and and through that experience That was very much what I what I felt. You know, it was a a unique opportunity when you think of it from a business perspective in terms of a return on investment in such a short period of time. ⁓ but also the opportunity of growth. ⁓ one for the practice and me personally, being surrounded and being coached by, you know pi people who are pretty experienced in the sector and have done this, you know, to quite a an impressive scale. ⁓ so that's that's quite exciting. and and you know, the people that ⁓ who have acquired us, ⁓ you know, we took time to get to know each other, you know, from the CEO right down to well, I say down, they're all up really, ⁓ to the regional director. because one thing that was important for me is if we're joining a bigger group ⁓ that my philosophy, our philosophy is continued, that we do not just become one of these typical cases that are acquired and essentially branded and then, you know, the the life of the practice is lost. and, you know, having done that assessment and spent that time with them all personally, ⁓ I felt pretty comfortable with it. ⁓ and you have to be because the people that have been with you in the trenches day in, day out, you're gonna have to tell them that this is the route you're going. And you have to believe that you're doing the right thing because if you don't, it'll eat you, ⁓ eat you alive. Yeah. ⁓ and and it was at that point when I realized actually this is the right decision. When I told them because I felt okay about it, you know, these are people I care about deeply. And when they were concern ⁓ naturally they they would have concerns, I could address them and be quite confident with what I was saying. ⁓ so now the onus is on the other side to to to prove me right, ⁓ which I have no doubt will be the case. ⁓ but yeah, it was a bit of an emotional roller coaster and a fascinating process to be a part of too. and really it's ⁓ it's a another opportunity and where this this path will lead, I honestly don't know. but it's still quite exciting. ⁓ what we do know is that you know there's more investment coming into the practice. that'll allow us to continue to grow and deliver ⁓ you know, great care locally. ⁓ speaker-0: But they're gonna want return on that investment. So there's gonna be financial paybacks at some point. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. ⁓ and and you know, that's that formed part of the conversations is, you know, if if we join your group, does that mean suddenly the the prices are gonna skyrocket? Because I don't believe, you know, that's the way to do this. ⁓ and you know, although I've only been around in a a short period of time and you know, one can argue I d I don't really have that much experience, but what I have done has worked so much so that you've come to me to you know, to acquire me. ⁓ and they were able to give me the reassurance that they don't want to hinder or change what we're doing, but they want to support it. ⁓ speaker-0: Have you been through an acquisition before? Well, you just did. Yeah, for the the the two years to change. So it's officially owned by Kinvets. Yeah. Or Kinvet's what do they call it? Community. That's it. speaker-1: No ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. So ⁓ yeah, I mean, I'm I'm pretty excited about it. And ⁓ you know, having spoken to before we joined the group, I'd spoken to quite a few others that are already part of it ⁓ and got their feedback and their take on it. Yeah. ⁓ because up until, you know, those papers are signed, you can pull the plug on it at any point. and the the feedback was consistent across the board and it was also very frank, you know, these are not people trying to sell things to me. They're just telling me what their experiences were. And they're all pretty happy. Now when you compare speaker-0: Because they're minted now. ⁓ speaker-1: I guess if that's what your happiness is based upon, right? But you still gotta turn up and go to work and see your clients and you know, work speaker-0: So what's your plan? 'Cause I know when you ⁓ when you sell to these the people and I know kin's on a big buy in spree. Should we call it that? Is this a shopping spree? ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah, so they're rapidly acquiring. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ and then you sort of contracted in for two years and then at that two year mark, ⁓ you can stay or you can go. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. I don't have one, Vanessa. You don't I don't have one. I mean, all none of this w was part of my grand plan. Yeah. yeah, and and you know, w there were discussions about, you know, staying longer, etcetera. Mm-hmm. ⁓ and it was very much, you know, well, let's let's make this work first. Let's let's build this relationship and we'll go from there. Yeah. So so yes, it's there there is a a period of time that I'm committed to be there. speaker-0: Your plan. speaker-1: But ⁓ that can also change on my part and on their part at any point in time. And and beyond that, well, if we've built a a sound s solid relationship and it truly reflects the values that we've discussed, we'll see. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ and have you told your clients yet? speaker-1: So ⁓ we're in the process of creating a formal communication. Some clients who are particularly close that I come in and I see I've discussed it with them. I mean so far it's been really supportive. speaker-0: Zephie back. Alfie, don't go. speaker-1: That's the thing, my life is in the area, right? and so far it's been really supportive. That's good. And and I think the difference being it's not a huge ⁓ conglomerate, right? speaker-0: Yeah. So I had ⁓ Ben Jacqueline on recently who's the currently the CEO of UK Medivet. And we had a discussion about what the hell is a corporate. And and like he's really convincing. He's like, I don't believe in that term corporate and what does it mean? Does it mean this or that? But what we could agree on was like large veterinary group versus small groups. Because he's like, What's the difference between someone who has 10 practices? Are they not a corporate? And then I said, Well, they're vet owned. And he had a good answer for that. I can't remember what it was, but it was a good answer. Like and in the end we decided there was no definition of what's a corporate and what's in independent. but I struggle with ⁓ so I actually recently received an offer from Kin Vets to buy the vet practice and ⁓ I turned them down. Yeah. ⁓ for various reasons, but ⁓ one of which is I don't play well with the others. I just don't think anyone can tell me what to do. ⁓ which is not I I'm sure that's not their aim, but I would be line managed by someone. But the other thing is like I'm just so strongly in this I am independent bucket and I just thought like I just couldn't do it. And I have these particular clients that come to me because I'm not in a group. ⁓ and they let you I could ma I imagined their voices in my head. It's like that was gonna be so mad at me. But yeah, so I Yeah, I don't know. I just I said no. So I can't get a yacht or anything yet, but speaker-1: Neither can I, sadly. Yeah. Yeah. And I I I guess it depends on on what you want and what you want to do and ⁓ you know, what your aim is. and and yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, I saw the benefits of joining a group is what I wanted to look at at as and I think at some point maybe I will want to because actually flying solo is quite hard. ⁓ and it would be nice to have a partner or someone else to share the load or whatever. But I am surrounded by really amazing people that help me. ⁓ I really love our mastermind group that we have, like it's super supportive. And I have people that I can call when I'm really like stressed or I don't know what I'm doing or I'm just like, ⁓ this is all terrible and I need some help. ⁓ but I do understand like joining a group sharing the load or hell, I was like, do you know what I might sell just to take this admin off me? I hate admin. I hate it. I'm so bad at it. It never gets done. ⁓ but ⁓ yeah so I saw the benefits that way. but I think 'Cause I've been through an acquisition. when I was working at the Vet for Life practices and they were sold to Linnaeus. And it was of course fine for two years, which it always is, and it's my experience in other people's that I've discussed it with. And then at the two year mark, they seem to come in with like changes and they're a bit more strict with their rules and what they want to do and stuff like that. ⁓ I have no idea about Kin vets. I have no experience with them. I know a few practices that they bought, but ⁓ yeah, that's always my concern. Like w th why is it that two year mark that they comes in and everything gets a little more corp? speaker-1: Sure. Yeah. ⁓ I mean one I don't have an answer for you, but ⁓ You could tell Let me know. Well I I I guess you know, our our sector has just you know, the monopolization of it has also taught a lot of valuable lessons because not every ⁓ you know I mean, you know, these groups have done very well for sure, but not all of the practices they have acquired have succeeded. Indeed, many have shut. And speaker-0: Help me in two years in the Correct. It's been sold back to the original owners. ⁓ speaker-1: Exactly, yeah. And so a lot of lessons have been learnt from that. You know, just in the discussions that I've had with with the with various members of the team. ⁓ and one would hope if you have a thriving, growing practice, the idea is to support that and to feed it rather than to necessarily put a stamp on it just for just. ⁓ and and that's my understanding, 'cause, you know, if I was the acquirer, that's exactly what I would do. Yeah, want to do. ⁓ but you know, eighteen months of practice ownership, what do I know? Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ I wonder if there's a competition for the quickest sale. speaker-1: I mean again, i this was w when I set it up, it absolutely wasn't on my radar, certainly not within the first decade of setting up the practice. yeah, it just just wasn't. It didn't compute, right? It was more just how do I get turn this kitchen shop into a thriving veterinary practice and and and beyond. But there is still my my focus is this is this is my baby, granted. You go on company's house, it's not my name there anymore. But it's still my baby. These are still my people. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, hopefully your clients will continue to support it. They are for are there for you. Your team. speaker-1: Well the good they're there for good service. Yeah. You know, if someone takes my place and they do just as much of a good job, it's not me that matters. And that's the key, is that, you know, when you create this platform for great people to thrive, you can then pull back. And, you know, I'm surrounded by wonderful people and they've made my job so much easier. You know, I've got ⁓ my my practice manager, she pretty much just runs the place. And we always used to say that I own it, but she runs it. speaker-0: Can I borrow her? speaker-1: No. But you know, ultimately the I am responsible, yes, for the clients and our patients, but those people in that building. ⁓ and even after two years, if that was to fall apart, well I have to still look after those people, right? Yes. And then that's when the real questions start to be asked is, you know, what is your motivation for being here? ⁓ I suppose I'll figure that out. But I I remain optimistic. I am also an optimist by nature. But Yeah, I think when you sit down with someone, regardless of whether a CEO, CEO, whatever, and you spend time with them and get to know them and try to understand what their vision for something is, you kind of get a good idea of the person that's before you. that or their superb salespeople. speaker-0: Ha ha. speaker-1: You can only put on that front for so long. but yeah. It's it's been a journey. ⁓ and and the journey's only just beginning. Yeah. speaker-0: Well, you're only eight years in apparently. ⁓ So you've got a lot more to go. Yeah. Amazing. I mean, well done. You've obviously created something amazing that somebody wanted to come and be part of. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, well again, ⁓ I maybe put the building ⁓ chose the building and ⁓ furnished it. Yeah, it's the people that are on it. It's true. No, I mean if any of them ever see this remember what I said. speaker-0: Humble. I was like, it was me. Yeah bring him a coffee. He said lovely things about you all. Okay, before we finish, I wanna know what's your absolute favourite thing about being a vet? speaker-1: ⁓ that's tough. I mean, there's all the clinical things that we love, you know, that we wake up for, get excited about, sure. My absolute favorite thing, I think, is just that the humanity about it. You know, when Sorry, I should have given a more ⁓ superficial answer, but yeah. for example, you're doing a euthanasia and you've got the whole family there. speaker-0: It's so deep. I love it. Keep going. speaker-1: And i it's so sad and everyone is broken over it, right? ⁓ and some s a lot of them for us are pretty difficult too. But then in that moment, you know, you we're privy to such a personal experience for that family. It's such a milestone in their life. And you just see humanity in its absolute best. You know, they're so broken over this little fluffy dog who's brought them years of joy as a family and stress and worry. And they're, you know, the the whole family from Grandparents to to the youngest child are there doting over this dog and experiencing such grief, such pain at having to let go of this little dog and or cat or or guinea pig, you know. And y you see ⁓ in our day-to-day work and life, we just go about life, you know, you're so busy that you you seldom stop, and then it's the next day. And then in that moment you see people for who they really are and truly are. And it's a privilege to be witness to that. And we see it quite a lot. I mean, I have to remind myself to take stock of what I'm seeing because you're probably thinking, shit, I got an appointment in 20 minutes. You know, you know, you try not to rush it, but you know They've just knocked my surgery out Exactly. ⁓ and those moments truly or, you know, like I mentioned that surgery where speaker-0: Upstairs and scrubbed down. speaker-1: There was the client with her dog. Yeah. And you know, just the the human element to it. And and of course, you know, your patients recovered ⁓ walking out the door, you know, when you're discharging them and their family are there and you take ⁓ out, you let them off lead so they can run to the family in that moment. Yeah. There's so many things that that I love about it. And ⁓ that's why I'm gonna carry on doing it. Yeah. speaker-0: What would you be if you weren't a vet? Me too. speaker-1: No idea. ⁓ speaker-0: Maybe I'll be a podcast host. Thank you so much for coming. We now have official under the firm Merth. Yes. Thank you. speaker-1: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I was hoping for one of those headbands though. speaker-0: Well, there's a scrub hat in there. There is. It's the closest thing, but ⁓ I'll just give you my headband. I've got a spare one. You have to promise to wear it. I will. Excellent. Thank you so much for coming on. It was amazing. speaker-1: Take it. Thank you. Thanks for having me.