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The Company Car Framework: Leadership Development with Pamela Fritz · Better Together

• Shawn Sundsvold: Welcome back to the Better Together podcast. I am Sean Sunsvold, along with Kelly Sunsvold, my partner in business and in life. Today's guests spent over 20 years in corporate HR, including work inside Fortune 500 companies. Then one meeting changed everything. She came back from maternity leave to a maternity policy that had quietly changed without anyone telling her. Her boss looked her in the eye and told her the real problem. She cared about the team too much. And that was the moment Pam Fritz decided she was done. She founded Savvy Resources to help small and mid-sized businesses do the thing that so many of them never learn how to do. Lead people well. No HR department, no playbook, no idea what they don't know until it costs them something. Her program is built around a simple framework she calls the company Car. Communication, Accountability, and Recognition. She's just over a year into building her practice and in that time she's already helped clients turn technically skilled managers into confident leaders with real results to show for it. So today we'll get into how she built that from scratch and where she's taking it next. Pam, welcome to the show. Pam Fritz: Thanks for having me. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah, this is gonna be a really fun conversation. So for our listeners who may be hearing your name for the first time, tell us a little bit little bit about who you are and what Savvy Resources actually does. Pam Fritz: Yes, so I am first and foremost a wife and a mother and that was a large motivator and kind of what led me to starting Savvy Resources. as you had mentioned, I was on maternity leave and I just started getting a lot of anxiety when I realized it was almost time for that to end. here I was leaving my twelve week old baby, the last baby I knew I would be having, and I looked at my husband who is also an entrepreneur. he owns some Duty Calls franchises and I'm watching him work ten to fifteen hours a week and I just could not imagine going back to fifty, you know, sometimes sixty hours a week. we also have a six year old daughter. who's in first grade. so there's lots of things going on with that and then a new son. So it really kind of said, Now or never. and I remember a conversation very specifically with my husband. He looked at me at one point in time when I was thinking about going back and he said, If you don't try this now, what's the worst that can happen? He's like, We can go back to our present day reality Which isn't that bad. And that kinda like gave me the push to to get motivated. and while I was on maternity leave I actually joined a program, run by a woman named Sarah Jensen and it's called Her Big Leap. And it helped me to come up with like my business plan and my business idea. So I didn't know what direction I wanted to head. I knew I had leadership and human resources in my pocket. and that program really kinda helped to guide me into the path of of true leadership development, which is where I like to spend my time. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah, it's really good. And like coming off of maternity leave, I cannot imagine. when we were preparing for this podcast, we were reminiscing a specific situation that happened with me, not it was during a surgery. and coming back from that, everything had changed. And you just kind of wonder where's the human aspect here? Like where's the where's the caring for people? we're all working hard doing the best they can, so I can only imagine what you were going through, especially with a baby. And obviously like you use that moment to creatively shift your life and your career. Is that the moment that really like you knew corporate HR just was not for you anymore? Pam Fritz: Really, when Sean was introducing and said that meeting I was having with my boss, like I had found out Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Pam Fritz: about this maternity change where I had lost a week of maternity leave that would have been paid that I thought I had, which I still had enough time because I was very strategic. but it just felt like another thing and then to come back, a lot of changes as you just said. my whole department had been shifted around. People that reported to me were moved around. It was very bizarre coming back to all that as a senior director of HR. And then that last meeting, really when I was like, you know, what is happening? Like I could tell there was something off with me and my boss for some time. And when that comment was made that I just care about people, you know, the team too much. that is like a part of what makes me me. I've always been really strong at relating well to others and seeing things not only from a leadership side but from an associate side because I do think as a good leader you have to have some type of balance there. so that that really was the moment where I was like, yeah, I was kind of, you know, entertaining the idea 'cause I didn't want to go back. But then when I heard that I was I felt like so at peace that I had started making these like strategic moves to to do something new. And so I just then started getting excited. And it took me a little longer. Like I think I still stayed on maybe another six or seven months to kind of get things in line and prepared and you know, I try to be a relatively strategic person and make sure that we can afford going to like a single income for a bit and just everything that went along with it, 'cause it was very scary for me. I've never done anything except for corporate. So it was a a new adventure for sure. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. And it it is a it's a big adventure and you know, it it's interesting. You'd watched your husband, you know, go, you know, kinda go into the franchise world and and you you mentioned earlier it was a real big push for you. But, you know, let's dig into that a little bit more. How much really was it a factor, you know, in in watching him take that leap first and figure it out? you know, and how much did that kind of play into your decision and a as you watched him go through that? Pam Fritz: I think it definitely made me more brave to see him doing it. but we kinda go back and forth on this all the time because he's bought pre established profitable franchises that were already in business and kind of making money. where I really came in to start from scratch. And those are two very different business models. though both their ownership when you're just starting out from scratch. I think I might have underestimated some of the marketing, some of the kind of bootstrap stuff. Like when you have a franchise, they help with all of that. when you have savvy resources, there's no one to help with all of that. and yes, you can start to hire and and and source some of that out, which Which is the plan, but you also want to be strategic with how you're doing that. So very different worlds, but he definitely gave me some of that courage. If it weren't for him, I don't know that I would have ever left corporate 'cause I don't know that I even saw that as an option. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah, that makes complete sense. And it's scary too, you know, like when you're you're leading a family and you have a job and taking that leap, to go out on your own, kind of into the unknown. and there can be some there's some can be some uncertainty and also like you mentioned with like the marketing or like you know, just all the different hats that small business owners have to wear that maybe they don't necessarily have the skill set in it. We talk to business owners all the time about that. For us, it was finance. That was a big thing that like we didn't we had to get an accountant right away because we realized accounting books were too big for us and it wasn't something we had experience for. you know you've mentioned your big your biggest challenge is helping people see what you do as a nice to have instead of just a need to have. Where does that stand right now? and what have you tried that hasn't worked, especially in this economy right now? Pam Fritz: Yeah, I think definitely things I've learned do not work is I was kind of marketing myself initially as like the way to end HR consultancy and doesn't really gain me a lot of friends or people that could be good referral partners in that sense of the world. so I've kind of restructured all of that. Like I don't want to replace consultancy. I think there is a need as you grow for different levels of what may be offered. And mine could be a great option for a company that maybe is just starting, maybe has a couple of W two associates and they really aren't ready for full consultancy or like a PEO or something like that. But they know they don't know all of the laws or the rules or Or some things to help keep and retain the talent. So I think there's a place for everyone, and I've kind of learned like I don't need to be out there making enemies when I'm just starting, and I don't I don't know that I did that, but I think I was kind of segregating myself a little bit. and I also learned at some point I was doing some marketing around you know, like leaving your ego at the door and come and get some more training and the problem is if you're in leadership you often think you are doing the best job possible. So saying things like that is not gonna get people to be like, I need that program so it's really just kind of revamping it of more of just like things that people pr more practical. Like if you are a in-person manufacturing facility as an example. offering to show them what a walking interview might look like. So like let's go take our person that's interested in the job and walk them around the floor and let them see do they interact with associates as you're walking past them? Are they walking at the speed you'd like them to walk? there's things you could really judge during a walking interview, which a lot of people don't do, but that's a practical tool. tool that I could talk through that I have experience with that does help to kind of weed out some of the folks that may not be the perfect fit for the position. so I think it's just more of how can I help? And then when they see the value in the help, I think that's what's getting me more traction now than maybe four or five months ago. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah, that's really great. and the walking interview side of it, I think of a job, I actually did that once and I I never thought of it like in that sense and all the different things that somebody's kind of like looking at you f you know, in that moment, like kinda all the things you just said there. So I think that's really interesting. you know, talking about all the different services that you offer. Kind of tell us a little bit about everything that you have to offer because I know there's quite a few things, not just consulting. Pam Fritz: Yeah, so the biggest thing that I spent way too long on, which took about eight to nine months when I was first getting started, is a six month virtual self-paced program. So very scalable, but it has twenty-six weeks of lessons, which can sound intense, but as for all my operations managers I've ever worked with, which have been many. They're only 10 to 15 minutes a week, so you can do them on a tablet, a phone, a computer, whatever is most easy for that leader to get a hold of. Each week it has a homework assignment, a quiz, a little compliance corner to make sure you're staying up to date on all of your things like retaining interview guides and doing your I-9 within three business days, some of those crucial tips and tricks. And then every Wednesday from 2 30 p.m. to 3 300. 3 30 p.m. We do open office hours right now. so you could just hop on and I'll be there as we go. There could be other people leading that. but it's a great time to be able to ask any questions you have if you want to do some role playing on how to have challenging conversations. so it's really kind of a one stop shop to get you know, a lot of education. It also has, I think, thirty some different resources, guides and templates like your interview guides, your offer letters, your welcome emails. I just wanted it to be almost like a one-stop shop to get a new business owner, a new enroll green leader, some of the tools that could really be helpful in their career. and then obviously I can come in and do in person trainings. I can do leadership summits, which I'm I'm doing one actually next month for my church. so different things that I can come in and support with. including if you you want to do more in person engagement surveys, there's just a lot, a lot that could be done there. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. And and one of the things that we talked about initially in the the opening was what you call your company car framework, the communication, accountability and recognition. Tell us more about that. Pam Fritz: Yeah, so when I was actually at Target for ten years, we did an engagement survey every year. It's something I thought was excellent that I I think every company should at least do some pulse checks every now and then. and every year, almost at every store, and I was at a lot of stores, I worked at the White Marsh, the Timonium Store in Maryland. I was like all over the Baltimore area. maybe seven different stores throughout my ten years. And every time we would have these surveys, we would have themes. And accountability would come up almost every time. Communication almost every time. Sometimes recognition, but the other two almost every time. So I was like, you know, that's funny. Like I would call it ARC or I would call it CAR or I would call it whatever, because I'm very big with acronyms and just keeping things in my memory that way. so finally I started moving. You know, I moved to different retail organizations and and ended up at a privately owned organization. And throughout the journey I kept on seeing those same three themes pop up. so finally when I started my own thing, I'm like, what What would be memorable that I could get A trademark on that, you know, is easy for leaders to really say, like, yes, I mean everyone needs those three things. And I can't think of many better themes than communication, accountability, and recognition. and it works with the company car so nicely because it's like communication is the engine of the car. It truly keeps it running. Accountability is the steering system. Without it, you're not gonna stay on the road. And then recognition is the fuel. And a lot of times people think an associate needs more money for recognition. Everyone likes more money. There's not a person in the world that you will talk to that doesn't say they want more money. However, they were hired for the role that you hired them for with a job offer with said dollars on that piece of paper. They don't only want money. So when I think of fuel, I think of F for future opportunities. What is their growth potential? How can they move up and make more money and learn new school skills? U is really understanding your associate. So do you get them? Do you know what they like? Like I had someone I was talking to maybe a month ago who doesn't drink alcohol anymore. And for recognition, their boss got them a bottle of wine. they had worked there like 15 years and the like the boss Kelly Sundsvold: What the heck? Shawn Sundsvold: no Pam Fritz: knew, like, that's not understanding your associate, right? I mean, that's Kelly Sundsvold: No. Pam Fritz: just not logical. and then E is everyday recognition. So this might sound crazy to some people, but if you have a associate that is late three or four times a week. And they come in on time, recognize them for that one day that they came in on time. Because chances are they're gonna repeat the thing they were recognized for. and then L is lead by example. You can't be harping on your team about these piddly little things if you're not even doing them. It makes it just hard for them to follow those things. and I'm not saying you have to be perfect because often Your salary, you're on a different pay grade, you're on all these different things. But you're still always on stage. and I I kinda use this line a lot 'cause I heard it early in my career, but you're the person your team is talking about at the dinner table tonight. What are they saying about you? Like are they singing your praises? Are they saying how horrible you are? Part of that is that lead by example in the fuel. So I think I just like the company car model and it kind of just works with kind of what my my focuses are and the vision of you don't have to spend a million dollars to make people happy. You just need to do those three things well and they will likely stay with you and want to perform for you and wanna see you succeed because you have built trust and respect with them. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah, I love that. And I love like a good acronym too. You know, we've got two that you've shared with us now, car, which is your basically like how you're you lead your company and then you have fuel that you just explained. and both are fantastic, like something that you're talking about, especially when you're talking about the the boss giving, you know, a bottle of wine to someone who doesn't drink. you know, and I I think and I kinda connected that. Back to what we talked about at the beginning about how you cared too much for your team, which honestly says a lot about you and your integrity, your character, and you've really built this business around your own corporate HR. Was there a point where turning that into your pitch, the you know, I cared about my team too much, ever felt too much to share publicly, or did it always feel like a natural fit for you? to share and kind of leverage that leverage that piece of your past. Pam Fritz: Yeah, I think I'm getting more open with it. because I I think a lot of what I hear at every meeting I go to, whether it's You know, I've been to Nexco events, I've been to Insight Connects events, I'm part of Entrepreneista. So like I'm I'm going all over the place at this point and everything I hear is how important relationships are. And I truly believe that is accurate. I think your relationships make and break your business, truly. But it is kind of scary to say that because you also hear a lot of leaders talking about This new generation is so hard to manage. Managing today is so difficult. It's not like it was five years ago, ten years ago. This workforce is just different. And although I I do believe there are more challenges, right? Because there are such quick dopamine hits available now. I look at it even with my kids, right? If if they see a phone, they become a different human being. Even at one and six. like if we wanted a quiet dinner on the cruise that I was just on, you have to give them the phone. And then it's like, okay, we get we get a quick 30 minutes now. Let's let's get things done. and this is for a one-year-old. So our new generation is used to getting these very quick dopamine hits. So we already know that. So we have to evolve how we are leading. And again, I'm not saying you have to give them a million dollars because we don't have that type of funding available. But there's cross training opportunities. There's a roadmap for a succession plan for them. Even those little things with some timelines will go a very long way. with our team today because it's at least giving them something to work for and strive towards. and really at the end of the day, I look at my my dad, for instance, who was at Domino Sugar for forty years as a maintenance mechanic, retired from there the whole nine yards. It was different when he started working. He could work and provide for my mother and five children on that one job, that one income. That's sometimes harder to do, you know, in the w in the world we're living in today. So we can say that they're not treating us as good, but I don't know that in all honesty, we as employers can all say we're treating them as good as employers once treated their associates. Now, granted, different types of work, all of the things. but I think we could do more. Like, are we truly having a routine around communication where we're going through the numbers from the day before, we're talking through your productivity, we're talking through where you excelled, where you needed to do some more work. I think all of those things would go such a long way into getting the result we wanna see. And and and being humble and being able to hold ourselves accountable and the troubled associates accountable. Because I say this all the time: your top performer is watching how you're managing the person over there that isn't doing their job. And they're just sitting there wondering: like, is this person ever gonna do anything? And all the while that you're leaving it continue, they're Quietly stepping back and not doing it. And this is your top performer now that's not doing as much or not having that same level of respect for you because they're not seeing you hold this person accountable that is just not pulling their weight. So I I I know that was a lot that was said there. but I think, you know, it is it is more challenging now at In certain ways, but I think we just have to lead a little bit differently. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah, it really is. you know, the we've we've talked to somebody before, like there's you know, there's so many different generations in the workforce right now. Right? I th I think I heard somebody say there's something like four or five different generations in the workforce and you have to talk to all of them differently and they all recognize different things, right? And so Pam Fritz: Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: It's it's just very important that you've gotta tailor your leadership to what they need versus what you need, right? In that isn't that the best way to put it? Pam Fritz: Absolutely. And it it goes back to the you of the fuel. It's understand your associate. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Pam Fritz: your generation that's younger, they might not be as interested in your care first health benefit. But maybe for them there needs to be something more tailored with mental health or whatever is is awing them, or maybe it's experiential benefit like now they could do ski lessons as part of a benefit. You know, you do really have to understand your team and kind of like tailor your offerings to better suit them, their needs and and sometimes it could actually save the company money, Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Pam Fritz: because you don't need to have them on your plan or or whatever. so yeah. I think that's Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Pam Fritz: very accurate. Shawn Sundsvold: You know, it when it comes to Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: understanding your people, you know, I and and your program especially, you've got the twenty six week program. You know, tell us a little bit about that and specifically I wanna and I know you're very proud of it because your brother went through it. Right? And you know, what it along kind of with that, what did it mean to have somebody who really said they they never wanted to do anything related to leadership training go through it and what was his result out of it? Pam Fritz: Yeah, I think you know, whenever you start a new adventure, your family may be skeptical. My dad worked at Domino Sugar for forty years. He was as pretty much blue collar corporate as you could get. Like every day he was there all day, every day. Lots of overtime, lots of hours. When I told my parents that I was leaving my corporate job and where I had moved up to, like it had taken me a while to get where I was from a pay scale perspective, from a position perspective, it was overwhelming for my whole family. so when I created this program, which took so long, my I forget what what the name of it is that my husband calls. When we give ourselves a time limit, we'll get it done. But if you don't give yourself a very strict time limit, it'll take forever. that seemed to be what happened there. but I wanted it to be very professional. So I invested a decent amount of money in a program called Absorb LMS. So that's been my biggest investment to date. And so I think when I was talking to my brother, he was in a position at work where he was getting a bit frustrated with leadership because he didn't feel like things were going the way they should be going on that front. Now he's a welder, so again, very Blue collar, right? And he's like, I want to do more, I want to help, but they're not being super receptive. And I was like, Well, I'm just wrapping up my program, and I would be happy to enroll you in it, but you have to give me very open, honest, transparent feedback and a review, please. And thank you. If you like it. If I if you don't have a good review, I don't want it. So basically he went through it. He finished the six-month program in two to three months. Cause you can move quicker if you I mean it's so short. You can move very quickly if you'd like. and he actually got a promotion at work and a four dollar per hour raise, which was very wonderful for him and his him and his wife's six children. so my sister in law was not not unha happy with that either. and he said even till today, he's actually used it to get a new job in a more leadership role. he he still uses the skills that were talked through in the program today. Now he said there are certain things that his team can't do. Like I think one of the things I give as an example for recognition and team building is like minute to win it games at huddles and things like that. He's like, Yeah, my team is not gonna be doing spoon races with MMs. but he's like, there are many things that we could think differently about things we could do that would work for them. that have been very helpful. So he's had a rave review and I'm like, Yes. And he was very skeptical 'cause he was like, You're my sister, like you didn't create anything professional or or top tier. And he was just very impressed by it. And I think Absorb made it easy to do it professionally. They have a wonderful implementation team and you know, it was just very helpful. Kelly Sundsvold: That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, that's great. Your brother had a good experience. And hopefully, did he leave that five-star review for you? Good. Good. Love the Pam Fritz: He sure did, thankfully. It's on my website. Kelly Sundsvold: love the family support. So, for a founder who's listening right now, who's carrying every people problem themselves right now, and no HR person, no playbook, what's the first thing that you would tell them to do besides Find you on LinkedIn. Pam Fritz: Yeah, I think, you know, listen to your team. Have have one on ones, have chat sessions. You know, I find it most beneficial to have small chat sessions if you're trying to get really honest feedback. And you don't have to be the one hosting it. Have like a next level manager host it. and just get feedback from your team. Oftentimes if things aren't running smoothly, the team already has the answer. They just might be too afraid to tell you or feel like they've spoken up before and not been heard. I I think that's like the the most simple cost effective solution. is just listen to the team. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. It's amazing what can happen when you just listen to your people a little bit because a lot of times they're the ones on the front lines, right? You know, they're the ones dealing with the problems, they're the ones who are in their own mind coming up with their own solutions for it and half the time they don't share it because they're afraid to, right? How do you how do you coach leaders to help them show their team they're not afraid of feedback from their team? Pam Fritz: I think it comes back to some of that accountability piece. You have to be able to be humble and and be vulnerable with your team a bit. And you know, if they gave you a suggestion that you didn't take and ended up finding out a month later that that was the suggestion you should have talked took, you need to go back to that person and say, Hey, like, you were right all along. I should have listened a month ago. You don't understand how much that would mean to that frontline associate to be like, whoa, like that was big of my boss. Like, they're going home, they're telling everyone, like, today they implemented my suggestion. Like my boss is just so cool, like they came and apologize like that goes such a long way. I had another person who told me this story and I'll share because it's just so tells you how much these little things of recognition really mean to people. They mailed their associate a thank you letter home. That person hung the thank you letter on the fridge and during a Christmas party, like six months later, the wife came up to the manager and said, Thank you for that thank you letter. Like It's on our fridge. Like it really meant a lot to my husband that you did that. It's like the littlest things that like you would think don't mean anything to people. But if you know your associate, they do mean something to certain associates. so I think, yeah, you just have to sometimes, you know, tell when you're wrong and and make it right. And it's just gonna it's gonna ch be a game changer for your business. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah, yeah. yeah, I just appreciate you sharing all this because I think it's just a really important important reminder, I think, as founders Sometimes we can get a little locked into, okay, we have to make, you know, our goals, we have to meet our financial goals, and we forget that there's a human side to people and sending those thank you notes and paying attention when they don't drink or, you know, what do you need can go a long way. Where do you see savvy resources being in a year or two from now? Is it like the same model at the same but like more scaling, or is it gonna be something different? Pam Fritz: Yeah, I think I would love to scale this model because I just think it it's super scalable. Like I could have five hundred people in the program tomorrow and I'd want to have more support staff, you know, to help with that if that were the case. but my real goal is just very simple. I want to make life better for everyone at the workplace, not just the owner. I want to make it better for the associates because if it's better for the associates, it will be better for the owner. People work harder and put out more results when they like and respect their leader. It's just the bottom line. So it all translates. And like, especially if you're customer facing, if you're not being good to your associates, they're not gonna be good to your customers. So like it all goes like together. so I start with taking care of our team, taking care of our team, they'll take care of you. and you know, everyone fumbles with it. Ha I've not always been the perfect leader because you have Personal life, mixing with work, mixing with all these different things. but I think we can get away from being thrown to the wolves and give leaders true leadership training. That's what the program aims to do. and and I think everyone in the world deserves to work for someone that they wish they would have worked for, you know, when they were in their career. If y if you're a leader, you wanna be that person that, you know, twenty years ago you were like, That's that's who I loved working for. and why and you wanna be able to kind of do that. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. And I wow. That's just such that's so well said. I I think that's a fantastic place to wrap up our conversation today on those very wise words. for those who maybe want to get in touch with you and learn a little bit more about what you're doing, maybe some consulting or talk to you about your program, how can they get in contact with you? Pam Fritz: LinkedIn is definitely the easiest way. you can just find my little professional glamour photo on there under the Pamela Fritz name. but if you just want to reach out, you could go to my website. It's www.savvy with one v resources dot com. And that is intentional. My daughter's name is Savannah. so we wanted to keep her into the into the company a bit. Shawn Sundsvold: That's awesome. Well, Pam, thank you so much for being here. This was a fantastic conversation. We'll have all of that information in the show notes as well for everyone to look up. So I just thank you so much for your time and appreciate your insights. Pam Fritz: Thank you both. I hope you have a great Friday and a wonderful weekend. Shawn Sundsvold: Thanks, take care. Pam Fritz: Bye.