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Girls Girling: Work (Bonus) · Like a Virgin

0:03
Speaker 1: I want to find a psychiatrist that I can communicate
0:05
Speaker 1: with via subtweets. I could just tweet like, oh, I'm
0:09
Speaker 1: feeling really unfocused right now, and then like the next day,
0:13
Speaker 1: a prescription for adderall shows up at my door. I
0:22
Speaker 1: just got off the phone with my accountant and she
0:25
Speaker 1: is well with with our accountant. Our accountant, yes, our accountant,
0:31
Speaker 1: our accountant. She is not happy with me. Let me
0:35
Speaker 1: tell you why. I mean, I'm just really bad at
0:39
Speaker 1: doing accounting stuff of any kind. The Eastern Europeans that
0:43
Speaker 1: like run our business. They are incredible women and they
0:47
Speaker 1: are so good at what they do and I am not.
0:50
Speaker 1: They are like, did you categorize your expenses yet? Did
0:54
Speaker 1: you look at this spreadsheet? You did? You? You know,
0:57
Speaker 1: make sure that this was filed and this was blah
0:59
Speaker 1: blah blah. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no,
1:01
Speaker 1: I haven't done any of it because you know, we're
1:03
Speaker 1: money avoidant, which we've already talked about on this pod.
1:06
Speaker 1: But for all being a freelancers hard, I know, And
1:10
Speaker 1: I'm just restarting that part of my life after two
1:15
Speaker 1: years of just having a job and not having to
1:19
Speaker 1: think about any of it. And like I filed for
1:22
Speaker 1: unemployment yesterday. I was like, oh, yeah, this is something
1:25
Speaker 1: that I have to deal with, and like I need
1:27
Speaker 1: to get on new health insurance after this month, and
1:32
Speaker 1: just all these things that I forgot that when you
1:34
Speaker 1: work for yourself, as freeing as that is, it also
1:38
Speaker 1: means that you have to do all of the other
1:40
Speaker 1: stuff that is usually handled by the business who pays you. Yeah,
1:46
Speaker 1: and it's a lot. I mean, freelancing is like, it's
1:49
Speaker 1: just a huge adjustment. How are you adjusting. I mean,
1:51
Speaker 1: you're a you've only been in it for a short while,
1:53
Speaker 1: but like any like initial observations, I mean, I've only
1:58
Speaker 1: been in it for a short while time. I have
2:00
Speaker 1: been a freelancer for very very long periods of time
2:03
Speaker 1: at different points in my life. I think what's different
2:06
Speaker 1: about it now is I'm now freelancing again after coming
2:10
Speaker 1: out of a job where I acquired the most stability
2:14
Speaker 1: and made the most money of my life. So it's
2:16
Speaker 1: a big adjustment. It's also like a slightly easier adjustment
2:19
Speaker 1: because I like had capital for the first time in
2:23
Speaker 1: my life, which I think you know, a lot of
2:25
Speaker 1: people who listen to this podcast will probably understand what
2:28
Speaker 1: a foreign concept that can be when you're a queer person,
2:32
Speaker 1: when you're a freelancer, when you're creative, like the idea
2:34
Speaker 1: of having like real financial stability. So like, I am
2:38
Speaker 1: entering this new part of my life with you know,
2:40
Speaker 1: like savings and like a better idea of how to
2:44
Speaker 1: manage my money. But I'm also entering this new part
2:47
Speaker 1: of my life with like much more expensive tastes than
2:50
Speaker 1: I've ever had. So I'm trying to figure out, like
2:53
Speaker 1: how do I somewhat maintain my lifestyle while working for
2:59
Speaker 1: myself and under standing that even though I know I'll
3:03
Speaker 1: be able to make money, it's not going to be
3:05
Speaker 1: in the same way where I'm like getting a really
3:07
Speaker 1: nice paycheck every two weeks. It might be like I'm
3:10
Speaker 1: getting a really nice paycheck every six months or something
3:14
Speaker 1: like that. Um, and just figuring out what that looks like,
3:19
Speaker 1: but it is it is extremely daunting to think about. Yeah,
3:24
Speaker 1: I I I feel like and we've talked about this before,
3:29
Speaker 1: just you and I, but like, to me, the rhythm
3:33
Speaker 1: that has worked for me, and the rhythm that you
3:37
Speaker 1: know obviously took a lot of work prior to that
3:39
Speaker 1: to get to this point is one wherein I can
3:42
Speaker 1: work a lot for a few months and then take
3:47
Speaker 1: three or four or five months off, Like I, I
3:50
Speaker 1: want to like take huge long breaks and then work
3:55
Speaker 1: huge amounts for a compact period of time, which is
3:58
Speaker 1: like why I, you know, like or want to work
4:01
Speaker 1: in film and TV. I love working on like project
4:04
Speaker 1: based things. I like working in births. And I feel
4:06
Speaker 1: like you are kind of like that too. I am too,
4:10
Speaker 1: and I've been experiencing it on a smaller scale as
4:13
Speaker 1: I'm working on a book, because I like, yesterday I
4:19
Speaker 1: felt like I had a really unproductive day. I watched
4:22
Speaker 1: two episodes of a docuseries about fundamentalist Mormonism and then
4:27
Speaker 1: wrote like four hundred words, And I felt like that
4:31
Speaker 1: was a really unproductive day because like, yes, I wrote
4:35
Speaker 1: those four hundred words in like forty five minutes, and
4:39
Speaker 1: like to some people, that might seem like a lot,
4:41
Speaker 1: but I find myself thinking, oh, why can't I just
4:44
Speaker 1: do that eight hours a day, Like then I could
4:46
Speaker 1: finish this book in like a couple of weeks. But
4:50
Speaker 1: I'm like understanding that it takes me that whole day
4:54
Speaker 1: of not writing to write, like that's all the creative
4:58
Speaker 1: energy I have for that day, and I also can't
5:02
Speaker 1: like pop an adderall every day and write for five hours.
5:05
Speaker 1: It's just not realistic. Yeah, I mean, like I although
5:08
Speaker 1: I will be doing that this afternoon. Yeah, I know,
5:11
Speaker 1: I have like a long day ahead of me. There
5:14
Speaker 1: are something like I'm starting to get into the rhythm
5:17
Speaker 1: of like, Okay, what are the days that I can
5:18
Speaker 1: be okay with just like doing a little editing or
5:22
Speaker 1: like writing a couple paragraphs or writing one scene, And
5:27
Speaker 1: then what are the days when I'm like going to
5:30
Speaker 1: take an adderall, drink a bunch of coffee, sit down
5:34
Speaker 1: at my table, and sit down on my computer and
5:38
Speaker 1: like right four five to eight hours and that's yeah.
5:43
Speaker 1: My my routine is like when I am working or
5:48
Speaker 1: when I am in a writing groove. It's like I
5:50
Speaker 1: love mornings and I love working in the morning. I
5:52
Speaker 1: try to have like a short period like while I
5:56
Speaker 1: have my coffee and just like listen to music or
5:58
Speaker 1: what or like you know whatever where I'm not doing work.
6:01
Speaker 1: But outside of that, I usually will just work a
6:03
Speaker 1: lot and then I have to be done by like
6:06
Speaker 1: two pm. Like that is I wake up early enough
6:10
Speaker 1: where I and this is like just what works for me,
6:13
Speaker 1: Like everyone who if you're a freelancer at home, like
6:15
Speaker 1: you have to find your own rhythm and what works
6:17
Speaker 1: for you. Some people are night owls, some people work
6:19
Speaker 1: in afternoons, some people only like to work three days
6:21
Speaker 1: a week or whatever. For me, it's like I work
6:24
Speaker 1: most days, including weekends, but my brain is leaving at
6:29
Speaker 1: three PM, and so I honor that by just not
6:33
Speaker 1: working after three. And you know, sometimes that's not always
6:37
Speaker 1: an option for me. Sometimes I have obligations or records
6:41
Speaker 1: or meetings or gigs, but you know, I try, I
6:44
Speaker 1: try to to keep that because I don't want to
6:46
Speaker 1: work all day. You know, no, no one wants to
6:48
Speaker 1: work all day. And yeah, I'm I'm like kind of
6:50
Speaker 1: the opposite. I find myself feeling more creative in the afternoon,
6:54
Speaker 1: like giving myself the morning to like run my errands
6:57
Speaker 1: and like be a person kind of by then the
7:03
Speaker 1: juices have like reached the level where I can write
7:07
Speaker 1: in the afternoon. I've been trying to get back into
7:10
Speaker 1: the artist's way, which I was doing for a little
7:13
Speaker 1: bit in the winter, and doing and doing morn it
7:19
Speaker 1: really it really is, and like I guess, like I
7:23
Speaker 1: do understand, I understand the point of it. Which is
7:26
Speaker 1: like it's getting you in the habit of just producing
7:31
Speaker 1: writing without thinking about it. And when I am writing,
7:35
Speaker 1: like form my from my novel, that is sometimes the
7:39
Speaker 1: hardest thing to do is just to get stuff down
7:42
Speaker 1: on the page because I sit there and like second
7:44
Speaker 1: guess myself and um, the hardest part for me is
7:47
Speaker 1: like getting out the pages and the plot. Um. I'm
7:52
Speaker 1: really good like going back and editing and punching things
7:55
Speaker 1: up and like adding voice. So I do think like
7:59
Speaker 1: I should be trying more to do morning pages just
8:03
Speaker 1: to get myself in that habit, but it's so hard.
8:06
Speaker 1: The last thing I want to do the first thing
8:09
Speaker 1: in the morning when I wake up, is fucking right,
8:12
Speaker 1: three pages of stream of consciousness. Bullshit. Yeah, that's not
8:16
Speaker 1: really my process either. I would love to be at
8:18
Speaker 1: that writing level. And I think, you know, when I
8:21
Speaker 1: do get into like real book work territory, like I
8:25
Speaker 1: hope that I can find like a writing groove because
8:27
Speaker 1: I have before. But a lot of stuff that I'm
8:30
Speaker 1: doing these days is like not a ton of writing.
8:33
Speaker 1: I set aside days to do writing for like whether
8:37
Speaker 1: it's like working on my show or working on my book.
8:41
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know, I think the idea of
8:44
Speaker 1: like productive days is something that we as a culture
8:49
Speaker 1: like need to move away from anyways, Like just the
8:53
Speaker 1: idea of productivity in general, and like that being your
8:57
Speaker 1: only worth is Like there are as when I just
9:01
Speaker 1: I just can't. I don't have the energy too. And
9:05
Speaker 1: that's the whole reason why I don't have a job anymore,
9:07
Speaker 1: because I don't want to be adherent to like having
9:12
Speaker 1: to produce something every day. But it's crazy to think
9:14
Speaker 1: that I can't wake up in the morning and just
9:16
Speaker 1: like write a couple of pages when like the first
9:19
Speaker 1: time we ever worked together, when we were working in media,
9:23
Speaker 1: like I used to wake up in the morning and
9:25
Speaker 1: like write my first news story of the day in
9:27
Speaker 1: bed on a Google doc on my phone. Yeah, I
9:31
Speaker 1: mean that is incredible, and I would I wish I
9:33
Speaker 1: possessed that kind of talent. I could never, but I
9:36
Speaker 1: remember that era of our lives. I'll say, Um, I
9:40
Speaker 1: our our our friend Channy gave me this book called
9:45
Speaker 1: Do Nothing by Celeste Headley. It's a very Channey book
9:50
Speaker 1: to give. Yeah, I know, right, Honestly, I think the
9:53
Speaker 1: book is a little bit of a misnomer. I think
9:55
Speaker 1: it should be called do Less, not do nothing. But
9:58
Speaker 1: the book is basically a out how to and I,
10:02
Speaker 1: you know, I unfortunately I'm like the target demographic for
10:05
Speaker 1: any kind of self help book or any sort of
10:07
Speaker 1: like philosophical kind of like life you know, advice book.
10:12
Speaker 1: But the book helps you deconstruct how the invention of
10:17
Speaker 1: the workforce in this country has like poisoned all of
10:20
Speaker 1: our minds into thinking that even our idle time, even
10:24
Speaker 1: our alone time, even our freelancer time, or we don't
10:27
Speaker 1: have a boss or anybody supervising us, like even then,
10:31
Speaker 1: we're still beating ourselves up. If I like wake up
10:35
Speaker 1: and I watch you know, legendary for three hours or whatever.
10:38
Speaker 1: And but like sometimes you have to have those days.
10:41
Speaker 1: And I think that you just like kind of have
10:43
Speaker 1: to tell yourself that you're enough and that just because
10:45
Speaker 1: you didn't work nine to five, which if you work
10:47
Speaker 1: for yourself, why would you work nine to five? First
10:50
Speaker 1: of all, but second of all, it's just like you
10:53
Speaker 1: have to like rid yourself with that. I would recommend
10:56
Speaker 1: that book to truly anyone. If you read even the
10:59
Speaker 1: first five pages, you'd be hooked. What's the worst job
11:13
Speaker 1: you've ever had? Um? I used to work at a
11:19
Speaker 1: bagel store. And I was in college at a frat
11:23
Speaker 1: run Indiana State School, and I worked the hangover shift
11:28
Speaker 1: on Saturday and Sunday mornings, so I dealt with the
11:34
Speaker 1: worst sorority girls being like can I have my bagels
11:38
Speaker 1: scooped at like, you know, seven thirty in the morning
11:41
Speaker 1: or whatever. And I was always late for the shift.
11:43
Speaker 1: It was such an early shift. I was inevitably fired,
11:46
Speaker 1: of course, because I, you know, overslept my shift I
11:49
Speaker 1: think maybe twice. Um, But you know, I hated that
11:55
Speaker 1: job and it was for the better. What about you?
11:58
Speaker 1: I think my worst job was my first real media job, UM,
12:04
Speaker 1: when I worked at Next Magazine, which if anyone doesn't
12:08
Speaker 1: know what that is, it's, um, it's a it's a
12:11
Speaker 1: magazine that used to be magazine is a generous term. Yeah,
12:15
Speaker 1: it's a it's a pamphlet that was that was free
12:18
Speaker 1: in in gay bars and um other queer spaces around
12:22
Speaker 1: New York City. Um. And I was the nightlife editor
12:26
Speaker 1: there and UM, I had the worst boss have ever
12:30
Speaker 1: had treaty? Like what were they like? Um, just like
12:36
Speaker 1: a total fucking monster and like really did not like me.
12:39
Speaker 1: The thing is like it was a job that afforded
12:42
Speaker 1: me so many opportunities because it was also the time
12:45
Speaker 1: of my life when I was going out the most
12:47
Speaker 1: and when I was a club kid. So I like
12:49
Speaker 1: had this magazine job forty hours a week and then
12:53
Speaker 1: was going out forty hours a week on top of that. Um.
12:57
Speaker 1: So that's probably also part of the reason why it
12:59
Speaker 1: was bad. Um. But it was a job where I
13:03
Speaker 1: like the main bulk of the things I wrote were
13:06
Speaker 1: like party descriptions for like the Weekend Guide and like
13:11
Speaker 1: go to Barracuda to see Tina Burner, like that kind
13:14
Speaker 1: of shape, you know, and like there were good parts
13:18
Speaker 1: of it. It definitely helped me make a lot of connections.
13:21
Speaker 1: I got to like interview a lot of cool people
13:24
Speaker 1: because of it. But it was a bad job. And
13:27
Speaker 1: I've and I've had I've had jobs that I think
13:30
Speaker 1: were like worse in terms of the realities of them,
13:34
Speaker 1: like jobs where I had worse working conditions or worse
13:38
Speaker 1: hours or um whatever. But I think because that was like,
13:42
Speaker 1: in so many ways, my first job where I felt
13:45
Speaker 1: like I was doing something that was about like my
13:48
Speaker 1: talents and what I was interested in, That's why it
13:51
Speaker 1: sucked the most. But it is the thing that got
13:55
Speaker 1: me into you know, quote unquote media. Um, what job
13:59
Speaker 1: was that for you? Like your first media job. I mean,
14:05
Speaker 1: my actual first media job was working at a local
14:09
Speaker 1: newspaper in Indiana in college. And I was at that
14:16
Speaker 1: news desk literally every single day of the week, seven
14:19
Speaker 1: days a week. And I'm pretty sure that the number
14:22
Speaker 1: of hours I clocked, I was probably getting paid like
14:25
Speaker 1: cents an hour, like it was. I was paid nothing.
14:29
Speaker 1: And you know, my first New York media job, I
14:32
Speaker 1: worked brief briefly in book publishing as a studio manager
14:36
Speaker 1: in the cover guard department at Random House, which was
14:39
Speaker 1: horrible and I hated it. And you know, I didn't
14:41
Speaker 1: use any of my skill sets. Um, but it was
14:43
Speaker 1: a job and I inevitably left that job. Was the
14:46
Speaker 1: very first time I ever quit my job to be
14:50
Speaker 1: an editor at or an editor assistant rather at a magazine,
14:54
Speaker 1: a queer independent magazine that paid me, I want to say,
14:58
Speaker 1: seventeen thousand dollars a year, like as a contractor so
15:02
Speaker 1: like after Texa's like nothing. I hope that like the
15:05
Speaker 1: virgins at home, like, you know, we started off this conversation,
15:08
Speaker 1: rather I started off this conversation being like I like
15:10
Speaker 1: to work a lot and then take five months of
15:13
Speaker 1: a break, which is a very unrelatable thing to say
15:16
Speaker 1: if you don't have that kind of like workflow or
15:18
Speaker 1: money flow. But everyone at home has to know, as
15:21
Speaker 1: we're talking about now, that we started from the bottom.
15:25
Speaker 1: From the bottom, I mean when I when I worked
15:27
Speaker 1: it next to do and have been underpaid for a decade,
15:30
Speaker 1: over a decade, yeah, I mean when I worked it
15:33
Speaker 1: next I left, they're making thirty five thousand dollars a year,
15:38
Speaker 1: which in New York that's actually huge. Yeah, like salary
15:44
Speaker 1: to me for for a really for like a magazine
15:46
Speaker 1: of that scale, that is very sadly and unfortunately like
15:51
Speaker 1: to me a high salary. Yeah, because you know, spoiler
15:55
Speaker 1: alert to anyone looking to get into media, it is
15:58
Speaker 1: not well, it's not well paying. It is really hard
16:02
Speaker 1: to make real money working in media. That's why so
16:05
Speaker 1: many people have jump ship to work in tech and entertainment. Um.
16:10
Speaker 1: But the thing about working in media is that like
16:13
Speaker 1: you at least attempt to you know, split the difference
16:18
Speaker 1: with all of the perks that come from it. And
16:21
Speaker 1: that is what I did for years. I know, like
16:24
Speaker 1: you you did as well, you know, like getting the
16:28
Speaker 1: free stuff that sent to you, like going to events
16:31
Speaker 1: for free, um, going on press trips, like you know,
16:36
Speaker 1: the whole last couple of years before I stopped working
16:39
Speaker 1: in you know, like traditional media, I was you know,
16:43
Speaker 1: traveling most of the time. I was like getting sent
16:46
Speaker 1: free close. I was going to like parties every week,
16:50
Speaker 1: and like drinking free drinks and eating free food and
16:53
Speaker 1: like the you know, the perks are nice, but like
16:58
Speaker 1: they only exist because you don't make any money when
17:02
Speaker 1: I I mean similarly, similarly, yes, I also had those perks,
17:05
Speaker 1: but like the travel and the parties and the connections
17:08
Speaker 1: or whatever, you're like, I'm I'm in it. Um. I
17:10
Speaker 1: also like definitely went out four to seven nights a week, um,
17:13
Speaker 1: which like when I was an editor, I considered part
17:16
Speaker 1: of the job. You know. I was like getting drinks
17:18
Speaker 1: with prospective writers, are people that I wanted to work with,
17:20
Speaker 1: are going to work functions or like just putting myself
17:23
Speaker 1: out there at parties, which I mean this isn't true
17:26
Speaker 1: of every job, but like, if you work in a
17:28
Speaker 1: metropolis area and you work in an industry where connections matter,
17:32
Speaker 1: showing up the parties is of my success. You know
17:36
Speaker 1: like that that's where you meet and start to foster
17:39
Speaker 1: relationships with so many people that I work with now.
17:42
Speaker 1: And then the rest is you know over Instagram, you're
17:45
Speaker 1: really good at networking. I happened to be terrible at it.
17:49
Speaker 1: You know, I disagree, I I I think so. Here's
17:53
Speaker 1: actually the thing is, it's not that either of us
17:56
Speaker 1: are good or about at networking. It's that we're actually
17:59
Speaker 1: I feel really good at the anti networking networking because
18:03
Speaker 1: to me, I think networking is actually like really gross
18:07
Speaker 1: and you have to do it sometimes, but you do
18:10
Speaker 1: it so well. Oh here's the thing, girl, I work
18:15
Speaker 1: with my friends. That's not always true, but like I
18:18
Speaker 1: work with my duties, and I have a lot of them.
18:21
Speaker 1: I have a huge group of people in my community
18:25
Speaker 1: that I consider friends in addition to colleagues and collaborators.
18:30
Speaker 1: And obviously a lot of these relationships are different and
18:33
Speaker 1: have different nuances. But like, I am very adamant about
18:37
Speaker 1: getting to know someone first in a deep and meaningful
18:41
Speaker 1: way before I ask them for something. And if I
18:44
Speaker 1: don't know them, it's just like why even bother asking?
18:48
Speaker 1: Because if you think you can like reach out to
18:50
Speaker 1: someone and ask someone for a favor after you've quote
18:53
Speaker 1: unquote networked with them once at a cocktail party. Like
18:56
Speaker 1: it's not really going to foster like a real relationship.
18:59
Speaker 1: I mean, people chout to me and ask me for
19:01
Speaker 1: favors who I have no idea who they are like,
19:04
Speaker 1: And this is something you start to realize once you
19:07
Speaker 1: like are a very social person, have any sort of
19:10
Speaker 1: like platform. This is definitely something I experienced, like when
19:14
Speaker 1: I was a club kid, is that people have these
19:18
Speaker 1: entire relationships with you that you are not actually a
19:21
Speaker 1: part of, and they feel really comfortable asking you for things.
19:27
Speaker 1: Like for me, it used to be like can you
19:28
Speaker 1: get me into this party? Can you get me a
19:31
Speaker 1: connection with someone you work with? Can you get me
19:34
Speaker 1: a podcast? Like I have a Netflix show? Can you
19:37
Speaker 1: help me get it made? Like the things that people
19:40
Speaker 1: you know, I understand people shooting their shot and I
19:43
Speaker 1: have certainly shot my shot with people before. But you're right,
19:47
Speaker 1: like it's really weird when there's not some actual kind
19:51
Speaker 1: of like connection or investment. And like I am very
19:56
Speaker 1: careful about the people who I work with who I
20:00
Speaker 1: also have some kind of personal connection to. I mean
20:03
Speaker 1: that that is very much the story of this podcast
20:05
Speaker 1: is like, you know, Fran and I used to work together,
20:08
Speaker 1: and I told them on the day they told me
20:11
Speaker 1: they were leaving to go work at Netflix, that we
20:13
Speaker 1: could finally be friends because we didn't work together anymore.
20:16
Speaker 1: We had and then become friends just a little, just
20:20
Speaker 1: a little tiny bit, just a little I liked you, well,
20:23
Speaker 1: we'll say that I I liked you. And then and
20:27
Speaker 1: then when we, you know, started making this podcast, we
20:31
Speaker 1: were both very clear that our friendship was more important
20:34
Speaker 1: than this podcast, and that this was something that could
20:37
Speaker 1: only happen if it felt like based on the reality
20:40
Speaker 1: of our friendship and if like our real life relationship
20:43
Speaker 1: always came first before the work. Absolutely, and I hope
20:47
Speaker 1: that's true of anybody that tries to work with someone
20:49
Speaker 1: who they're friends with. But like back to the networking
20:52
Speaker 1: at of all of it all, It just like networking
20:54
Speaker 1: just needs to be eradicated because if you're going into
20:57
Speaker 1: a conversation with someone thinking about like what they can
20:59
Speaker 1: do for you, Obviously sometimes it's a natural like your
21:03
Speaker 1: brain just does that as a natural byproduct. But if
21:05
Speaker 1: you're just looking at this person the whole time as
21:08
Speaker 1: an opportunity you the whole time, girl, Yeah, the whole time,
21:12
Speaker 1: you're just like set up for failure. Like I approach
21:14
Speaker 1: people as humans first, and I have like become friends
21:19
Speaker 1: with people who I either worked with once or I
21:23
Speaker 1: went into it and in the back of my brain
21:25
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, like what an amazing connection and
21:27
Speaker 1: I bet they can help me do something. And years
21:30
Speaker 1: later we are still like amazing friends or like really
21:34
Speaker 1: close duties and I've never asked anything from them or
21:37
Speaker 1: vice versa. And I feel like that to me, is
21:40
Speaker 1: it right? It's like, figure out how can how it
21:43
Speaker 1: can be a real relationship first? Is like to me,
21:46
Speaker 1: what builds great things? Because I think some of the
21:49
Speaker 1: best things are built with like collaboration and with community.
22:03
Speaker 1: So we have a very interesting question that producer Phoebe
22:06
Speaker 1: has posed um about us being business partners, which is
22:10
Speaker 1: if we went to platonic couples therapy it would be
22:14
Speaker 1: to discuss blank. I mean, god, I don't know about this. Um.
22:20
Speaker 1: I will say everyone should do couples therapy, like couples
22:25
Speaker 1: in general, even if you don't have problems, should be
22:27
Speaker 1: on couples therapy. I think friends that ever you know,
22:30
Speaker 1: work together or like have a lot of moving parts
22:33
Speaker 1: in their friendship. Like I think joint therapy is like amazing,
22:37
Speaker 1: so you know, you don't necessarily have to have problems
22:40
Speaker 1: to get to the therapy part. Yes, but like we
22:43
Speaker 1: do have problems, and I will say so, this is
22:47
Speaker 1: actually something that Fran and I have already talked about
22:50
Speaker 1: this year, and it was like a hard thing for
22:52
Speaker 1: me to dig into on my own. But for me,
22:58
Speaker 1: what I would want to talk about would be my
23:00
Speaker 1: um codependence because I moved to l a mid pandemic.
23:07
Speaker 1: Fran is one of my closest friends in the city
23:09
Speaker 1: and we also work together, and so like it got
23:12
Speaker 1: to a point in the winter where not only my
23:14
Speaker 1: social life but my professional life we're all wrapped up
23:17
Speaker 1: in one person. And like, you know, you and I
23:20
Speaker 1: talked about this, like you can't be all both of
23:23
Speaker 1: those things all the time for me, And it's definitely
23:26
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's an issue anymore that I
23:28
Speaker 1: would want to work on in couples therapy, but like
23:31
Speaker 1: that to me is one of the things that you know,
23:35
Speaker 1: if you and I had at any point gone to
23:38
Speaker 1: like a friend therapist together, that's what I would have
23:40
Speaker 1: talked about, which is like I need to be more independent, um,
23:46
Speaker 1: and I can't rely on you for all these things. Yeah, okay, yeah,
23:50
Speaker 1: that's that's true. That's true. And we did we Do
23:52
Speaker 1: you think that's not do you think that's not what
23:55
Speaker 1: it should be? No? I was trying to think of
23:57
Speaker 1: what mine would what I would say and I feel
24:00
Speaker 1: for me it would be about like the way I
24:03
Speaker 1: communicate when work and friendship is bored and you and
24:07
Speaker 1: this is like something it's so funny because on a
24:10
Speaker 1: few bonus Episodgo you were like, fran you're not that nice,
24:14
Speaker 1: which I take as a compliment. Still like but it
24:17
Speaker 1: but it had the truth behind that is like I
24:19
Speaker 1: can be extremely direct with my friends in a way
24:22
Speaker 1: that's just not very friendly. And I think a lot
24:25
Speaker 1: of times I would say that nine times had a ten.
24:29
Speaker 1: When that happens with someone that I love, it's because
24:33
Speaker 1: I'm in between work functions or like I'm in between
24:37
Speaker 1: meetings or I'm in passing and I'm you know, doing
24:40
Speaker 1: a bunch of things and I'm just like I didn't
24:42
Speaker 1: I forgot to snap out of work mode. And when
24:45
Speaker 1: I'm working, I'm I'm very direct. I'm very like philosophically
24:50
Speaker 1: against like, um, what we call soft language weak language,
24:56
Speaker 1: like I just like say what I want to say,
24:59
Speaker 1: but that you lacks humanity and empathy. And I think
25:02
Speaker 1: a lot of the times, not just with this podcast,
25:05
Speaker 1: but with Food for Thought. Who I mean, if you
25:09
Speaker 1: think you've seen Frand in an ugly work era, you
25:12
Speaker 1: should see me during food Food for a Thought, because
25:14
Speaker 1: those girls and I had a reckoning that I mean,
25:17
Speaker 1: everybody had a part to play. But like, I can
25:20
Speaker 1: be a monster when I am in work mode, and
25:24
Speaker 1: it's something that I have grown so much from and
25:27
Speaker 1: I'm really proud of that. Like I don't feel like
25:30
Speaker 1: I have those issues on a day to day anymore,
25:32
Speaker 1: but I have come very far because like I'm I'm
25:36
Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed of how I treated my colleagues at Food
25:39
Speaker 1: for Thought, um, you know, in the first year or
25:42
Speaker 1: two of our podcast. And I'm really grateful that, you know,
25:45
Speaker 1: they have since accepted my apology and that we all
25:49
Speaker 1: work together so well and lovingly now, you know, well,
25:52
Speaker 1: like the best thing that your friends and collaborators can do,
25:56
Speaker 1: I believe is not to you know, be egoey about it,
26:01
Speaker 1: but call you in and call you out and be like, hey,
26:04
Speaker 1: you're doing something that is making me feel bad or
26:07
Speaker 1: making it hard to work with you, And I would
26:10
Speaker 1: rather us talk about it than it like build up
26:12
Speaker 1: into something bigger. Like I have so appreciated the times
26:16
Speaker 1: when you've come to me with things like that. I've
26:18
Speaker 1: really appreciated when I've come to you in those moments
26:21
Speaker 1: and you've been really receptive and like have been like,
26:25
Speaker 1: you know what, you're totally right, like and like validated
26:28
Speaker 1: my experience. And I think it's only through being that
26:31
Speaker 1: kind of honesty is anyone able to keep working together
26:36
Speaker 1: and maintaining a friendship, Because like, you can work with
26:38
Speaker 1: people you hate, but I think it's a lot harder
26:41
Speaker 1: to work with people that you love or it's just
26:44
Speaker 1: like a different kind of complicated. I agree, And you
26:47
Speaker 1: know that's why I think that this podcast just that's
26:50
Speaker 1: why we try to keep the stakes as low as possible.
26:53
Speaker 1: We try to keep it fun and something that we
26:55
Speaker 1: both look forward to. I mean, we're not even like
26:57
Speaker 1: making any money right now, you know what I mean. Like,
26:59
Speaker 1: I hope that the virgins at home can continue to
27:01
Speaker 1: like share this podcast more and more, especially during Pride season,
27:04
Speaker 1: because you know, when we do get better numbers that
27:07
Speaker 1: means actual advertising income for us, but like right now,
27:11
Speaker 1: like you know, we're just this is just fun, UM,
27:15
Speaker 1: and I feel like that has helped us stay honest
27:20
Speaker 1: about you know how it like stems for from our
27:25
Speaker 1: relationship and like the work life balance to strike from that.
27:30
Speaker 1: And speaking of supporting this podcast, we are doing our
27:34
Speaker 1: first ever live event in New York City on June
27:38
Speaker 1: and you should really come to it if you live
27:40
Speaker 1: in or around New York. So fruitely, thank you so
27:44
Speaker 1: much for listening to another one of our Pride Bonus episodes,
27:48
Speaker 1: UM special thanks to our producer Phoebe and our entire
27:52
Speaker 1: team at my Heart. See you Thursday for our regularly
27:56
Speaker 1: scheduled episode, and again, please get tickets for our first
28:00
Speaker 1: live show. You can go to either of our Instagram's
28:04
Speaker 1: in the link in our bio or go to our
28:07
Speaker 1: burner account at like a Virgin for see you later.
28:11
Speaker 1: Virgins by