Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Women Cult Leaders: Part 1

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Women Cult Leaders: Part 1 · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I've never told your protection. I heart rateio. So, Samantha,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: are you into cult like entertainment? I am so. Actually,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you knew this. As I studied
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: social work at the University of Georgia, I kind of
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: had a secondary because I was stupid me. I don't
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: know why I didn't keep going with it. I was
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: like three or four classes away from actually having it
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: as another major, but religion was going to be another major,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: and my focus was actually on cults Eastern religions. But
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: that not that they have anything the same or not.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: But yeah, because I love the whole idea of Calton,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: what it like, it's background, kind of the beginnings of
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: religion and how it started as cult like and then
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: moving on. So yeah, I love different facts. Of course,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: that's the tragedies. I don't love that, But the fascination
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: of why people follow, who they follow, and what they believe. Yeah,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I like we talked about in past episodes. I'm not
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: really big into true crime and I haven't seen a
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: lot of the documentaries or other I haven't listened to
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of podcasts that have been dead about these cults,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: but I do. It is one of my favorite kind
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: of genres of horror that I find really upsetting and disturbing.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite video game series is Silent Hill,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: which has a big cult element. And I love Midsummer
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: and the Other Lamb, but they do freak me out.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: They really unsettle me. And I was in a cult
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: based movie. Okay, that was not going in my head.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: You were about to say something else. It's like, wait,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: what it was? By the way, I have had friends
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: who were part of cults, who grew up in cults
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: or communes as they would call it, but they came
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: with a lot of trauma. Yeah, I had. I might
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: have told the story before on this show. As far
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: as I know, I don't have any close friends or
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: family that have been involved in cults. But I had
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: a group of friends who, uh, I wanted to see
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the audit process of scientology. Like they didn't want to
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: join obviously, well I don't know obviously, but they didn't
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: want to join, and they made this They were like,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: we're not going to get separated, we just want to
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: like check it out, and they all got separated. I
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: was like that that's the beginning of like several sitcom
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: episodes that I've seen, it's not fun, but they all
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: get separated the first thing, they're like, oh no, and
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: one of them eventually Bison and the rest of them
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: are like trying to get them out. So many plots,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: so many Well, who do you think of when you
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: think of cult leaders? Like what is the stereotypical image
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: that kept in mind? Like David Koresh is a big
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: name in the US as someone that we know who
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: was a big leader in cults. I think about actually, uh,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: scientology as part of that as well, So I think
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily a leader. But Leah Remoney, who has
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: a show with My Heart, I believe talking about her
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: time as a part of a scientologist group. I think
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: about her sometimes just because she's so loud about it
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: and there's not too many people who are willing to
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: be loud about it. And I know one of the
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: big things about cults and communes like that are specific
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: to secrecy and blackmail, and there's so many stories. Like
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I said, I've had friends who are parts of them
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: who had been like they did this to me. They
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: told me they had to give I had to give
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: all this information to them and how they kind of
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: just like in a like a domestic violence situation, they
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: stripped them of their personality, they stripped them of their identity.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think about her too for some reason
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: that she possed in my head. Obviously, again, not a leader.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: She's out and she's talking about some of the issues
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: within her experiences. But I find it interesting enough because
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: it's one of the bigger, more pot peel are ones
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: thanks to celebrities, right her. So yeah, those are those
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: are the ones that kind of pop into my head.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: What about you? Yeah, I mean, she's definitely a vocal
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: person when it comes to Colton. This was researching this episode,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I was shocked at how many times a celebrity would
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: come up and I was like, wow, okay, but I
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: do like, if I just come up with the stereotypical
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: cult leader image, it's usually a white dude with brown hair,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: darker hair, all bearded. Yeah, usually kind of Jesus Like yeah, honestly. Yeah.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: One of the most fascinating studies that I did, or
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: a book that I read and we researched and I
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: can't even remember his name, was a book called The
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: God's Chinese son. Essentially, it was this man from China
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: who truly believed he was Jesus's brother and started his
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: own cult within China. But a little not like, I
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: don't hear too many where they use Christian based idea
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: within like China and all that. I've not heard too many.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's because I haven't looked it up. They're gonna
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: be a few we're going to talk about in here,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: but yeah, and I know, like this, there's a fascination
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: of cult cults in general, and like SNL recently did
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: that that like music video where the women were talking
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: about how they love murder shows and then at the
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: end Nick Jonas comes in I think it was him,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: and he was like, what about the cult shows? Yeah,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: so we are talking about women cult leaders, specifically this one,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: and we're planning on returning to discuss women in cults
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: at large, which we will touch on a little bit.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we wanted to talk about some of the
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: ladies at the at the forefront of these cults, and
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: it turns out there's there's more than we thought. So
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: this is a two parter. Yeah, So essentially, after the
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: news broke out about the leader of Love has one,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: which we're going to talk about her a little bit.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: We came to a point where like, wait, how many
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: female cult leaders are there? And what? Wow? Why there's
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: so many just questions, so definitely wanted to look again.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize our so many. Yes, And before we
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: get into this trigger warning, we are going to be
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: discussing suicide, sexual abuse, violence, death, murder, general abuse, just
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: some not so savory things because we're talking about cults.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: But we're not going to go to in depth into
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: any of that. And reminder always remember that, yes, these
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: are real people still dealing with the fallout in many
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: cases of what we're talking about, and like in our
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Serial Killers episode, the history can be a bit exaggerated
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: and hard to pin down, but we did our best, right, Yeah,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: So all right, let's do some basics here before we
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: get into some of the women leaders. After the Nanson
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: family shocked the public with the murders, cults became a
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: big source of anxiety in the United States, and anxiety
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: that lasted from the late nineteen sixties until the nineteen nineties,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: spurred on by media coverage. But what exactly is a cult? Well,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: it turns out that is a very hard definition to
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: been down. Nobody wants to be too precise, it seems
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: from a pen Today article, cult is a term that
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: doesn't refer to a religion at all, but is applied
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: to a social movement. People have intuitive feelings about how
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: the word cult should be used, even when an organization
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: or movement meets the criteria of a new religion. Take
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: for example, Scientilogy and Mormonism. Both were new religious movements
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: that have evolved into a general understanding of definition of
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: a religion. However, according to Pew Research, non Mormons in
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the US are more likely to label Mormonism as a cult.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Scientology and Mormonism have outlived their charismatic leaders and side
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: note from me, the charismatic leader bit is really key
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: in this whole thing. The article continues. They have openly
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: published their beliefs as scripture. Both religions seek truth by
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: offering its followers a roadmap for their place in the universe,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: along with a moral code. Those who accept of beliefs
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: and rituals are members of the religion, but many outside
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: consider the movement and its followers to be a cult.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: And then it goes on to quote linguistics professor Robin Clark.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: The word cult originally designates a practice of religious federation
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: and the religious system based around such feneration, for example,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: the cults of Our Lady of God a Loupe. However,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: the word was co opted in the first half of
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the twentieth century by sociology and has come to denote
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: a social group with socially deviant beliefs and practices, like
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: a UFO cult. And there there's been a lot of
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: hypocrisy and suspicion when it comes to Eastern religions and
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: anything affiliated with them in the US, especially when they
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: become successful. Basically, anything that's not Christianity couldn't get caught
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: up in this whole cult conversation. And yeah, that whole idea.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: There have been a lot of arguments about a new
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: religion sort of if it's doesn't fit into this Christianity
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: framework being called a cult. And cults can exist in
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: multiple numbers of ways, religious, commercial, familial, just to name
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: a few. And yeah, but typically that charismatic leader is
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: really really key. And some of the things we're going
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: to talk about, like maybe was a cult at one
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: time and then evolved out of it, or just depending
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: on who the leader is right, which actually has been
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: the source of conversation around Trumpism right. And again, this
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: is why we wanted to look at the female leaders
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: because it is so centered around uh, the leaders these
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: different groups. Is fascinating to see people following women in general.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: So to have the charisma, Yeah, it's typically understated, which
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: is probably why I didn't know as many of these
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: names as I do of male leaders. But that's a
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: whole different things. So let's let's talk about some numbers. So,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: according to Tennessee State University, there are thousands of cults
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: in America, and some harmless, some dangerous. Not surprising. They
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: go on to define cult as a group or movement
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: held together by a share commitment to a charismatic leader
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: or ideology. It has a belief system that has the
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: answers to all of life's questions and offers a special
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: solution to be gained only by following the leader's rules.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: It requires a high level of commitment from at least
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: some of the members. So again, the definition can get
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: quite murky and cause a lot of debate. For instance,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: there's a huge conversation right now around ntil Swan, a
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: new age spiritual self proclaimed help guru who purports to
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: the powers that allow her to not only look inside
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: people's bodies and see what's going on, but us also
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: allow her to recover repressed memories within people and deal
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: with childhood trauma. She was one of the names I
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: didn't see students pay two thousand dollars or more to
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: work with her. The debate around her sparked after a
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: student of hers took their life. A Swan who has
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a huge social media presence has encouraged followers and students
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: to imagine their suicides in detail. She says quote we're
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: all going to get suicidal for a moment, and of
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: her YouTube videos she calls suicide a relief, a reset button.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Her channel has half a million subscribers, and at the
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: same time she creates a space for conversations around suicidal
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: thoughts and child sexual abuse. She has plenty of seemingly
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: harmless content on finding joy and stuff like that, and
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: videos that have wracked up millions of views, but she
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: does this without any real accountability or responsibility when people
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: who listen to her mainni professional help. Some members of
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: the quote til tribe claim that the only reason they
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: are alive today is because of what Till taught them. Yes,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: and if you want to learn more about Swan, you
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: can check out the six part Gizmoto podcast series called
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: The Gateway. Pretty much everybody we talk about in here
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: and every cult we talked about has either a podcast,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: a Netflix documentary, or both, So if you want to
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: learn more again, the mediums are out there for you.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: And this is a case where we're really having to
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: as a society update or thoughts on cults to include
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: modern circumstances and technology tell uses s e O or
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: search words basically to target vulnerable people, so if someone
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: searches I want to kill myself, they might get served
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: up her videos. Some argue this is also an instance
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: of cults run by women not being taken seriously as
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: compared to cults led by men, that cults from by
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: women aren't labeled as cults when perhaps they should be.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: The word cult itself is often gendered when it comes
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: to things like cult of skincare or cult of domesticity.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Multi marketing companies are sometimes put in the same category
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: as cults, many of them run by women. Obviously, that's
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: a whole different topic, and not all m l m
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: s would qualify as cults, but just just for instance,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and I think there's another conversation we could have about
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: things like Q and on and how they target women
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: through self help and yoga groups with these ideas of
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: protecting children often and just all of that sort of
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: being dismissed as all that's a lady thing. We don't
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: need to pay serious attention to this, all right. I
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: know we definitely talked a little bit about that in
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: our past episode on Q and On and Women, when
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: we talked about the specific groups such as the Red
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Pill group and all of that which does target women
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: in that group, as well as giving them mentors, which
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: is familiar, right, and then who their leaders are and
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: who they see as leaders, And typically they're all moms
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: of some sort or caretakers of some sort. So it's
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: definitely interesting to see that. So cult leaders themselves are
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: generally charismatic, compelling, and absolutely unshakable, like they will argue
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: with you until the cows come home. I couldn't think
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: of a better saying. They're often compared to domestic abusers
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: and follow a lot of the same patterns, including starting
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: with something called love bombing, basically showering you with attention
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: not always positive and in the early stages a seduction
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: period where the person recruiting you makes you feel special,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: which is very familiar as we know when it comes
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: to grooming. But in a cult there are promises of family,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: of meaning, of enlightenment, empowerment, money being a part of
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: something more and the bigger and the role you'll play
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: in that. And then once you've got in, isolation is
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: next exerting control. Right from University of Tennessee again, most
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: cult leaders have narcissistic personality disorder. Symptoms include an excessive
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: need for admiration, disregard for others feelings and inability to
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: handle any criticism, and a sense of entitlement. So when
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: it comes to who these cults target, while vulnerable people
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: or people in a transitional period in life, like if
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: you've just lost a job or gone through a really
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: big breakup, are often targeted, no one is immune from JN. T. Tam,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: who wrote Cartwheels in a Sorry, a memoir of growing
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: up in a cult, quote, the aptitude and capacity to
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: exploit human beings is universal, and with the right ambitious
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: and charismatic leader, any group easily could morph into a
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: cult and dr Yanya Lalitch, a cult leader researcher out
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: of California State University, says, coal leaders will always get
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: their people to what I call reframe their lives. They
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: reinterpret their lives so they see everything from before the
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: cult as messed up, and only by staying with the
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: cult leader will they get straightened out. From Dr Alexandria Stein,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: author of Terror, Love and Brainwashing, Attachment and Cults until
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Tealitarian Systems, all of it is about arousing fear in
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: the victim. Once you're fearful and they're the only person
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: you've got, you will go towards the only resource you have,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: which is the person who is frightening you. If I'm frightened,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I go and see my friend or call my mom.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: It's instinctive. But when the only person left is the
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: frightening person, you are trapped. You're trapped emotionally clinging to
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: them hoping they alleviate the pain, but that never happens,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: so you end up in a feedback loop of fear.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: From there, you cognitively disassociate and become unable to think
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: about the situation you're in. That's why it's so hard
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: to understand from the outside people say why doesn't she
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: just leave about someone in a relationship, and why didn't
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: they just leave about someone in a cult? They're trapped
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: there by a trump bond and unable to think clearly
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: for themselves. So toxic masculinity fits perfectly with these cult
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: leaders commodification and control of female bodies, a need to
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: display power at all times, and because of this, heterosexual
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: men often use their position as cult leaders to meet
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: their predatory sexual desires, and we've seen a lot of
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: accounts of that. There are accounts of women and cults
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: forced to get abortions having sex with the male cult leader. Violence,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: emotional and psychological abuse, and coercions are frequently employed against
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: women and cults, and cults sometimes separate children from their parents,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: allowing for sexual abuse, and in several instances there are
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: women propping up the male cult leader and the cult
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: of self, helping with recruitment and the general running of
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: the cult. Jim jones former lover Caroline Layton was right
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: behind them in terms of influencing the Jones Down massacre.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Or there's Naomi Jessup, the favorite wife of worn Jeff,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: who stood by and offered counseling while he was undergoing
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: trial and citizen for child abuse and molestation, and he
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: ended up so time for aggravated sexual assault for underaged girls. However,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: it is important to point out that that these women
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: themselves were indoctrinated. And again when we talked about the
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Manson family, we talked about the women talking about not
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: knowing what they were walking into, thinking they were just
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: coming into a circle of love essentially again because they
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: came into this young and trying, just searching for something.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: What differentiates them from other members is that they were
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: able to earn the cult leaders trust and thus power
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: for themselves, and often this is a form of protection
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: or self preservation in the face of trauma and abuse.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Holding up position of trust can show them from rules
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: and punishment other members face, perhaps again forming a trauma
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: bond with the cult leader, and again this is very
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: reminiscent of being in a vultile relationship. They frequently head
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: up recruitment, projecting a maternal nature and caring to bring
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: in new members, and many of them often young women
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: used for the cult leaders sexual gratification. And of course,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: if you look at who they are and sometimes what
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: they're called, they're often just called mother or mother so
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: and so so. It's interesting to see again the naming,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: mass weddings, arranged marriages, grooming, forced abortions, and reproductive control
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and all forms of sexual abuse are so frequently utilized
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: in cults right. Another example of a cult recently garnering
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: mainstream attention is Nexium, the so called self help organization
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: that's now called a sex cult. Once members started getting arrested.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Nextium dictated that members cutoff ties with friends and family,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: replacing those relationships within the group, while controlling pretty much
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: their entire lives. While the leaders slash founder is a
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: man Keith Ranier or Vanguard as he went by, a
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: man that members believed was the smartest man alive and
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: therefore the planet's only hope for survival. It was largely
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: run by women, and it was co founded by a
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: woman named Nancy Salzman a k a. The Prefect, who
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: was a registered nurse. Women were the ones doing the
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: recruitment presenting the public image. Actor Alison mac was one
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: of these women. She's become one of the faces you
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: probably think of first. What Nextium offered was largely run
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: by women and geared towards women, sold as self help
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: sessions promising happiness and independence. Intense twelve hour sessions ran
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: at seven thousand, five hundred dollars. In the words of
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: a former member on the podcast Escaping Nexium about her
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: experience being a d O s R. Dominus obsequious sorori
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: um in Latin or master of the slave women. This
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: was a women's group advertised to her as a badass
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: bitch boot camp. Others said it was painted as a
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: feminist group um desiring to help women deal with intimacy issues.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: The former member went on to describe how she was
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: pressured by her master, a woman she counted as a
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: friend and trusted, to get a brand when she was inducted,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: which she only found out later included Ranier's initials. Getting
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: the brand required the woman to be naked, bound and
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: taped like filmed before they received it. They were supposed
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: to say, please brand me. It would be an honor
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: and honor I want to wear for the rest of
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: my life. I believe that was so they could prove
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: that they consented. The ex member described this whole process
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: is similar to the frog in the slowly Boiling pot,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: incremental in stages, cutting her off from support systems, that
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: may have helped her. She said, you know, if you
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: had told me I'd be getting a brand at the beginning,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: I would have said no way, But it just happened
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: so slowly. Members of d o S were also required
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: to give up something as collateral, like a video of
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: them masturbating or confession of being the victim of sexual abuse,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: off and false. Ranier once said he believed women were
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: easier to control, and he would turn women against each other,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: especially if there was any resistance or defiance. So if
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: you had a kind of higher up position and he
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: did something he didn't like, he'd be like, well, I'll
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: just go to her. She doesn't complain. He was extremely
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: controlling about their weights to so Matt was arrested and
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: federally indicted on charges like sex trafficking. She appealed, pleading
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: guilty to two charges of racketeering, and when Yer was
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: sentenced a hundred and twenty years in prison in twenty
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: nineteen for charges including exploiting the child in possession of
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: child pornography. Also something you should know. Several women were
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: behind taking Reinier down. Yeah, I know that there's a
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: whole documentary about that happening. Yeah, this just remind me,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: and I was telling Samantha before we did this, we
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: could do a whole episode on just the level of
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: misogyny involved in this one alone, because a lot of
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: people were like, how did kind of that same idea
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I had did so many you know, seemingly very smart
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: women to get into this kind of feminist camp, but
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: it was just full of this toxic, like misotynistic ideas
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: and it's really it's really fascinating. So I think we
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: could come back and revisit this one. But it did
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: remind me of things like wicker Man, where you like
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: send the women out to bring people back into your
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know that one one. I don't know. Well,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: you know about the bees, though not the bees, I
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: don't think so Samantha's giving me an empty like, well,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite. It's one of the most
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: well known. Nicolas Cage means, I need to go back
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and look it up now. I feel like I'm missing
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: out somehow, But yeah, I mean one of the big
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: things that was successful, again we can get into this
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: is the fact that he did use women to recruit
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: and that's been a trick from the beginning. We know this,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what's happening within trafficking as well. We
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: know a lot of that happens to be typically people
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: who are in that life and being told this is great.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you how it'll change your life and
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: it's not as bad as you think. And they grow
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: to trust because just like in many schemes, you find
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: for so many people who trust women when it comes
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: to that and thinking that they're they're safe and they
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: can defend themselves, kind of that whole level. So it's
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: a whole different conversation in itself, and the tactics on recruiting,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: which again has been used before in many ways. Again,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: this doesn't mean women can't be cult leaders. And yeah,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: we'll get into that after a quick break from a
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Just a brief disclaimer, people including the women, were going
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: to talk about, do you still argue about whether some
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: if not all, of these constitute as cults. There are
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: particular issues orund racism, sexism, and yes, any like anti
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: anything but Christianity sentiment. But here are some examples that
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: commonly come up when you're talking about women cult leaders.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Let's start with one that might be the most well known,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: thanks to the Netflix documentary Wild Wild Country. Sheila Burnsteel
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Arm and Nod. Sheila most well known is that's probably
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: very specific to when you were born, actually, but for me,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: this is one that's up there. I was gonna say,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: this is one that I watched for sure. I I
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: remember when it came out. I didn't watch it, but
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: I just remember hearing people talk about it, and I
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: was like, wait, this is a documentary. This really happens. Yeah,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: she is still just chilling. Yep, she is. So she
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: she was that technically the leader. As the personal assistant
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: to the Indian Guru of rajnish Peram Bagwan Shri raj Niche,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: she exerted a lot of control. She convinced him to
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: purchase the plot of land that would become rajnis Peram,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: which she later purchased herself. She was in charge of
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: external communications, big events the Colts Foundation. She controlled the
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: diets and clothing of members. Many suggests that she really
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: ran pretty much everything. The raj Niche movement was a
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: combination of Western philosophy, Eastern mysticism, and free love. At
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: its peak, there were thousands of members worldwide, many of
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: them upper class white people looking for enlightenment, and at
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: one point the cult was worth about sixty five million dollars.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: When they were kicked out of India in nineteen eighty,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: they moved the movement to Wascou County and Oregon and
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: built this many city rash Niche Peram. Their neighbors viewed
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: the as a dangerous sex cult. The tensions between the
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: locals and raj Niche param escalated. There was arson, immigration, fraud, espionage,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and arms race, all kinds of things. If you haven't
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: watched it, you should because just the interviews with the
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: townspeople is entertaining. Eventually, Sheila went to jail for thirty
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: nine months for planning and carrying out biological terrorism. No
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: one was killed, but yeah, over seven hundred people were
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: poisoned and attempt to impact local election. There's a whole
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: thing about politics and hairs. Pretty interesting. Sheila had fled
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: to Europe, but was arrested in Germany nineteen six and
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: extradited to the U S where she faced federal and
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: state charges including wire tapping, attempted poisoning. Separate from this
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: one bio terror event, immigration violations, and attempted murder, and
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: when people who lived at Rajni Param watched the Netflix documentary,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: many of them expressed complete shock at how much power
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Sheila Will did. Sheila herself had seemed surprised at the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: parts of the documentary she watched, including when she scaped
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: raj Nisperam and Rogenie said of her up quote, she
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: did not prove to be a woman. She proved to
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: be a perfect bitch. But she said, in response to
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: questions about it, how can one's opinion change because someone
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: said something negative about me. I love the man. I
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: still love him, and for her it was and is
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: always about him more. She does a really good job
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: of making it look that way. I will say she
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: is a an interesting and charismatic speaker when you watch,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: because she did a lot of like media for the group,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: so it was interesting for sure. Yes, and she has
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of really really good quotes. Um, here's one.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: What does love have to do with sex? We were
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: taught to associate sex with love to compensate. You feel
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: sexual but are afraid to declare it. You say I
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: love you. In my life it has always been separate.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I can tell someone I want to go to bed
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: with them. I have no qualms about it and enjoy
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: being in bed. And if I love somebody, I love somebody.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: They are two separate events and I love this. When
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: compared to Kelly and Conway, she said, no, I don't
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: allow that comparison. That much pride I have she has.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: And then she also said, in spite of the guillotine,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: they haven't killed me yet. They haven't killed my spirit.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: No matter where I go, I will always wear a crown.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of being under guillotine. She was talking about, like,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: if you're in power, there's always the threat of the guillotine,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: and this was what she said. Yeah, I like it
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: and yeah. After the documentary, a lot of people admitted
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: to loving Sheila, and some even argued about whether or
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: not she was a feminist or a feminist figure. Her
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: catch phrase was tough titties again. Yes, these days Sheila
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: runs are home in Switzerland and remains unapologetic, saying that
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: calling it at cult is insulting. Uh, and yeah, not
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: to again, these are real people and they were real ramifications.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: But she certainly was charismatic, and I think she was
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: even on the cover of some big magazine naked like
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: she she was influential and she controlled. She had a
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: lot of power within this. Some of the past numbers
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: when talking about her is obviously they were traumatized, but
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: also some of them were like she did this, like
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: she just kind of that level of like wow, the
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: control or just the background player that she was and
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: surprised many people. So it was really interesting to watch.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Uh So, next we want to talk about talk John
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Han Moon, who was married to the founder of the
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Korean New Age Unification Church, Son Young Moon, found in
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: the nineteen fifty four. The Unification Church was at peak
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: popularity in the nineteen seventies, perhaps reaching fifty thousand members
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: around the world despite boasting millions. Nineteen seventy one is
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: also the same year the Moon's moved the church to
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: the US. The church advertised a feeling of belonging, peace
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: and love, tolerance, enlightenment, spirituality, and happiness. In nineteen sixty,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Son married the then seventeen year old Hawk, and they
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: would go on to have several children together. Son claimed
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: himself to be God's Messiah, meaning that his words were
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: the end all be all overrating all other beliefs, thoughts, desires, feelings,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: et cetera. Because of this, the church and Son himself
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: wielded massive control over the members lives. Some reports suggests
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: that moonies may work up to twenty two hours a
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: day while fast into a tone for their sins and yeah,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: moonies was a sort of derogatory term given to the
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: followers of this Unification Church. Guidelines around sexual behavior were
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: very strict, particularly regarding premarital sex and homosexuality. And these
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: mass weddings and we're talking stadium sized events with up
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: to two thousand five couples getting married and spectators this
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: event called the Blessing, were a part of enforcing these guidelines. Together.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Son in Hawk were known as True Father and True Mother,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: the true parents free from the original sin. They later
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: crowned themselves Emperor and Impress of the Universe. If and
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: if I remembering correctly, twelve US senators were at that
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: event at the time. Um Hawk is also called Mother
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: of Peace, the Perfect Woman, and the Bride of Christ. Right. So,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: here's a description of one of the mass weddings by
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Carlile Murphy and Linda Willard that appeared in the Washington
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Post article The Reverend Moon and his wife Hawk, John
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Han Moon showing a flare reminiscent of old Broadway musicals,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: held hands and descended a red carpet staircase flaked by
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: white road attendance. After a symbolic sprinkling of water, they
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: led couples and saying I do to four pledges recited
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: during the noontime blessing ceremony, among them a promise to
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: quote inherit the tradition of the Unification Church and pass
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: its proud tradition down to future generations of Unification families
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: and to all mankind. When the wedding and blessing portion
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: of the program ended, Sun Young Moon and Huc John
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Han Moons sat reekly on two thrones, and we're given
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: two large boutcats and a trophy. Neil Salonan, a church
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: official who served as Master of ceremonies, as those assembled
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: to think the moons as is the Asian custom, by
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: bowing to the couple, and most stadium attendees tilted at
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: the waist wow. The church made an unverified claim that
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: three point six million people participated in this worldwide. They
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: were big on really inflating those numbers. Most of the
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: people married in the ceremony had only met a few
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: weeks prior, matched by church officials. The church has no
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: official capacity to marry people, but many consider themselves spiritually married.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Uh and Whitney Houston was supposed to sing at this
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: but canceled due to illness, as the story goes, at
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: the last minute. So some of the crowd could be
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: explained that way. Maybe they were there to see Whitney Houston.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Dion Warwick was there to introduce acts them and yes,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: while the church does claim to have fifty thousand members
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: in the U s alone, the numbers believed to be
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: closer to a few thousand at most. A devout anti communist,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Son once believed the US to be the world's beacon,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: but thanks at least in part to financial wills, in
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, he flipped, calling America quote Satan's harvest.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: He had also gone to jail in the US for
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: eighteen months for charges of tax fraud and conspiracy. Man,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: it's a hard flow right there. Han founded the Women's
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Federation of World Peace in nineteen and an organization that
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: promotes women working harder to achieve peace in their communities.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: She spoke at the w f w P event with
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: former President George H. W. F. Bush said, w I
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: feel like that's the way you do it, in saying
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: that her husband had to save the US from quote
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the destruction of the family and moral decay. Around the
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: same time, her husband elevated her right to be on
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: par with her, so there's a promotion. In two thousand five,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Dr Sun Moon and Dr Hawk Moon founded the Universal
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Peace Foundation, which is considered a n g O in
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: general consultative status with the u n at PF event
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Hawk Moons and the goals of the organizations were to
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: set up Korean War memorials in the countries that don't
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: have them, and to put together a registry of anyone
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: who made any sacrifices for Korea. By my son died
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: in two thousand twelve. Yeah, and perhaps clearly we're not
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: really getting too much in depth into the spiritual religious
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: beliefs of these organizations, but this church is considered an
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: example of extreme indoctrinated religion. The followers, yes, are often
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: dismissed as moonies. Hans stepped into the leadership position of
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: the church after Moon died. Through her status, she has
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: become a billionaire. Here's a quote from a former member
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Nasu Koang fromok in the Shadow of the Moons My
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: life in Reverend Sun Young Moons Family quote. Much has
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: been written about the coercion and breakwashing that takes place
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: in the Unification Church. What I experienced was conditioning. You
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: are isolated among like minded people. You are bombarded with
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: messages elevating obedience above critical thinking. Your belief system is
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: reinforced at every turn. You become invested in those beliefs
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: the longer you're associated with the church. After ten years,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: after twenty years, who would want to admit even to
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: herself that her beliefs were built on sand? And I
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: guess they owned the Washington Times, this Unification Church or
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: they created it. Anyway, Son build up businesses business empire
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: in South Korea and Japan, and then funneled his attention
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: into nonprofits, but only after he'd stacked their leadership with
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: friends of his. He was very right leaning and had
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: a strong relationship with the Republican Party in the United States.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: When Parents Day was signed into law in n the US,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: some in the church took it as a sign of
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: how closely their relationship was with the US government. Mhm
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: SO pastor Young Jin Sean Moon. One of their sons
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: is a huge mega and gun guy and started his
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: own church in eighteen. He believes he's a rightful leader
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: of the Unification Church, but he lost to his mother
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: and his words. His father crowned him three times as
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: the era parent, but Hawk was under the impression she
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: was meant to take over. And here's a quote from
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: test O and Over at Vice about a festival his
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: church held in twenty nineteen. Quote. The festival held a
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: safe space play area for kids with signs reading gun
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: free zone and trigger warning. Parents laughed and that pictures
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: as their kids strangled pink unicorns and pummeled rag dolls.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: The MC of the event was Joe Gibson, the leader
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: of the far right Patriot Prayer, who is currently facing
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: felony charges for his involvement in the violent street brawl
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: with Antifa in Portland, Oregon. Um there was even a
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: siminar about the cetification of American men. I do remember
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: that one. Wow. Yeah, that's so special, so Sean said
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: about his mom. She was taking the position of what
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: was described in the Bible as the harlot of Babylon. Position.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean I see her as a prostitute. Okay,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I love, I love so nice quick correction of that
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: doesn't just saying just say it. I'm just saying. We
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: do have some more examples for your listeners, but first
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: we have more work for work from response here and
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsor, and we're back with Sylvia Marz.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: In the early Sylvia Mars was the high priestess of
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: a cult trying to get in the good word with
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: a saint not recognized by the Roman Catholic Church, Santamuerte
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: are Holy Death. This saint is often depicted as a
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: skeletal grim reaper, sometimes described as the patron saint of
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: serial killers, and Mara's devoutly believed. There's not too much
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: out there on her, but what we do know is
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: she killed a friend of hers with an ax in
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: two thousand nine. One of the followers, ten year old
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: family members, was the next. Most of the members of
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: this cult were family members of Sylvia's. And then the
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: members would slit open the veins of victims while they
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: were still alive and drain their blood into containers, and
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: they would spread the blood on an altar to Santamuerte,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: believing it would bring them good fortune in Maris was
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: sentenced to life in prison. It's estimated two million people
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: follow Santamuerte in Mexico, where the following of Sante Morte
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: is believed to have originated. Santa Marte was added to
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Mexico's list of registered religions in two thousand three. So
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of back and forth about the cult
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: status of the Santa Marte following, and this is very
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: specific to this woman and her family for the most
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: part in general. So earlier in one and Elizabeth Young,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: or mother Anna of Cobb County, Georgia, so in our
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: nick of the Woods, was sentenced to thirty years in
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: prison in Florida. Young ren occult in the eighties when
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: was charged for second degree murder for a two year
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: old after her mother gave him to the cult. He
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: was left in the closet without food and water, where
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: he eventually died. Young pled guilty to the fatal seizures
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: of a two year old girl caused by withholding her medication.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: So sad Young owned four acres of land in Florida
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: for the House of the Prayer of the People, a
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: so called religious boarding school uh in a place nicknamed
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: the Town that time Forgot members wore robes and head coverings,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: and the belief system was a mixture of Old Testament
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: ideologies and collectivism. Young was controlling and obviously abusive um
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: and when a seven year old boy stole a piece
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: of candy, she deemed he should be punished with thirty
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: three lashes in reference to Jesus's age when he died
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: on the cross in the n The police investigated the
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: group after Young publicly bathed a twelve year old girl
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: and the chemicals causing serious birds and she spent several
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: months in the severe burn unit. Anna's daughter Joy was
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: one of the key people to bring her down, testifying
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: against her after an argument about how Joy was caring
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: for our children led to Joy seeking justice for the
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: children who died under her mother's care. And we thought
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: we would wrap up this part one with the inspiration
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: for this episode. A news item that Samantha saw and
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: brought to my attention recently. I'm man in Colorado alerted
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: the police that he found a mummified body at quote
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: some type of shrine. The body was in case in
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: a sleeping bag and Christmas lights, glitter makeup, circled eye sockets,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: that appeared to be empty. The man who brought this
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: to the attention of the police was a follower of
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Love Has One, a religious group often described as a cult,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: led by Amy Carlson or Leah and Amy Carlson or
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: the quote Mother God. Her body was believed to be
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: transported from California to Colorado. Seven members of Love Has
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: One were charged with abuse of a corpse and child abuse.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Recent reports suggests no foul play, that she was in
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: poor health and drink a lot. Many followers believed that
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: she had quote ascended. She herself claims that when she died,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: she would ascend to the fifth dimension. Carlson founded Love
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Has One around two thousand six, leaving behind her children
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: to do so. She called it a quote spiritual organization,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: and it was heavily informed by New Age movements and ideas.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: The group offered items like medicinal supplements and Callo Real
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: silver alongside sessions promising spiritual ascension. At the head of
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: it all was Carlson, who assured she could talk with angels,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: that she could cure cancer, she could usher loved ones
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: to other dimensions, or have a great awakening for lost
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: level ones. Before the official website went down. Carlson asserted
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: on it that her past lives included Marilyn Monroe and
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, and that she was on her quote five
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: thirty four reincarnation in my quest to recover my beloved planet.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: The cult was very active online, and that's one of
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: the ways that they targeted new followers. She lived with
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: local followers in one big house, but estimates put membership
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: at thousands when counting online members. Carlson engaged in several
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: of the abusive methods of control we've mentioned, and allegedly
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: only let members sleep four hours a day. There's also
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: not too much out there about this one, but some
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: some said that the group made headlines recently when fourteen followers,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: including Carlson, refused to adhere to mask guidelines in Hawaii
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: and he created the culture with Carlson claiming she was
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: the Hawaiian Goddess of fire, and police escorted them off
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: the island. As of the recording, officials are still waiting
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: for the toxicology report on her and to positively I
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: d the body, so this is all ongoing right now.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Her family claims that towards the end, she was being
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: brainwashed by her own cult and other members of it, right,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: and I believe Vice has a documentary that they did
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: of the cult a while back, so it's interesting to
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: see if you wanted to watch any of that. Yeah, Like,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: like we said, almost all of these have something like
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: a documentary or a podcast out there. And not to
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: hammer this point home, but I think it's worth hammering
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: home that people still argue about whether or not all
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: of these constitutis cults and what why we label things
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: as cults? And so I know we were using cult
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: kind of interchangeably throughout, but just very very aware and
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: acknowledge that that is it's an ongoing conversation. Well, in
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: the meantime, this was only part one, and we have
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: some more for you in part two, so keep an
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: eye out for that. In the meantime, if you would
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: like to contact us, you can. You can email us
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: or you can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: You can also find us on Instagram at stuff I've
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks it's always to our super producer Christina,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: thank you, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Never Told His production of I Heart Radio More podcast
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.