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UnchainedTV: Shocking Chicken Abuse Alleged! · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

0:00
It's a plague our world.
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If you want to revolutionise your health, get
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truly joyful and jump to the next phase
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of human evolution, all it takes is one
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simple choice.
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Now, here's your choice.
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Here you go, guys.
0:13
Here you go.
0:16
We have breaking news to bring you.
0:19
This is a shocker.
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Breaking news about chicken abuse.
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Undercover footage just released by Animal Outlook of
0:30
chickens being abused in a California factory farm,
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Animal Outlook is calling on the Fresno County
0:37
District Attorney's Office to file criminal animal cruelty
0:43
charges against the corporation, Foster Farms, which is
0:47
the major poultry producer in California, major supplier
0:51
to the big supermarkets.
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This video shows multiple instances of forklifts driving
0:58
over and hitting live chickens, chickens being thrown,
1:03
chickens being kicked and grabbed by their wings.
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Foster Farms says all of its chicken farms
1:09
are American Humane Association certified and that the
1:13
chickens it raises enjoy the five freedoms, including
1:17
freedom from discomfort and freedom from injury, pain,
1:21
or disease.
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Animal Outlook says its investigation reveals a stark
1:25
contrast showing anything but humane care and freedom
1:28
from discomfort, injury, and fear.
1:31
Now, Foster Farms just moments ago released a
1:34
statement that we saw.
1:37
We will read it to you.
1:39
They are invited on any time to respond
1:41
to Animal Outlook's allegations.
1:43
And right now, we are delighted to speak
1:45
to Animal Outlook's new executive director, Ben Williamson,
1:52
about this blockbuster breaking news as well as
1:56
his fascinating history as a leader in the
2:00
animal rights movement.
2:01
Again, this footage is from Animal Outlook.
2:06
Undercover investigative footage just released, a blockbuster breaking
2:12
news story.
2:14
And I believe we are the first news
2:16
organisation to be showing this footage.
2:19
I wanna go straight out to Ben.
2:21
Ben, what was your reaction just as a
2:26
human being when your undercover investigator first showed
2:28
you this footage?
2:30
Hi, Jane.
2:31
Thanks so much for having me on the
2:32
show.
2:33
My reaction hopefully is the same as everybody
2:35
who watches this and to think, I can't
2:38
believe this goes on.
2:39
We know from doing countless undercover investigations, we
2:43
know that every time we do this kind
2:45
of thing, we see something that we expect
2:48
to see rough handling, we expect to see
2:50
abuse, but some of these things like the
2:52
forklifts driving over the birds, the distances these
2:55
workers were throwing the animals into the cages
2:59
at, when they should be, I mean, they
3:02
shouldn't be there at all, but if you're
3:04
going to do that, place them delicately inside,
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but they just showed no, they showed complete
3:08
disregard for the lives of these animals.
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And you can't be helped but be gobsmacked
3:15
by the cruelty that you see in the
3:17
video.
3:18
Now, tell us the timeline.
3:21
We're going to immediately read the statement from
3:25
Foster Farms, but what was the timeline here?
3:29
Over what period was this occurring?
3:32
The investigator went undercover at a catching crew
3:36
in three counties in Central Valley, California between
3:39
20 of June of this year and 24th
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of July.
3:43
So they were in the field for about
3:44
a month and they went to three counties,
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multiple farms as part of this catching crew.
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They were working sometimes 14, 18 hour shifts
3:55
in the middle of the night, sometimes in
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a hundred degree weather.
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And as you see the footage that they
4:01
captured whilst in the field really shows that
4:04
the workers are under enormous stress and unfortunately
4:09
they're putting the birds through even more agony
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by just wilful, egregious cruelty that you can
4:16
see.
4:17
It's really, really shocking.
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And you know what?
4:20
We're going to play this multiple times.
4:23
Excuse me.
4:24
We're going to play this multiple times today
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because essentially, you know, a picture equals a
4:34
thousand words or a million words.
4:36
You can describe this.
4:38
You can go on and on to basically
4:43
try to paint a picture.
4:46
But when you actually see it, there is
4:48
no mistaking what you're seeing.
4:51
So I just want to say, Ben, that
4:54
I immediately, as a journalist, when I saw
4:57
this a couple of days ago, tried to
4:59
get the other side of the story.
5:01
As a journalist, I always try to get
5:03
the other side of the story.
5:05
I'm calling the operator now at Foster Farms
5:07
General Enquiries, trying to get a response.
5:11
I've already written to the company listed as
5:14
a PR firm, as well as written to
5:17
General Enquiries, trying to get a response.
5:21
Hey, yeah, my name is Jane Velez Mitchell.
5:24
I'm a reporter for Unchained TV and I'm
5:26
trying to get to the press department to
5:29
get a response to an undercover investigation released
5:32
by Animal Outlook, alleging multiple instances of cruelty
5:37
caught on tape, which they have presented reportedly
5:41
to the Fresno County District Attorney's Office, requesting
5:45
animal cruelty charges be filed against the corporation.
5:49
So I'm trying to get the other side
5:50
of the story.
5:51
I'm trying to get a response from Foster
5:53
Farms.
5:53
Can you transfer me to your press department
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so I can talk to somebody?
5:58
So I did not get a response.
6:00
In fact, I checked just moments before air,
6:03
just to make sure.
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However, also moments before air, Foster Farms did
6:10
reportedly issue a statement through a poultry publication.
6:18
And let's read the statement from Foster Farms.
6:21
It says, the headline is Foster Farms response
6:24
to animal cruelty situation.
6:26
On October 8th, this is the publication talking,
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the company released a statement that said it
6:31
took immediate action when it learned that broiler
6:33
chicken catchers were mistreating the birds at a
6:36
facility in Fresno County, California.
6:39
So this is from the company.
6:41
Quote, four weeks ago, Foster Farms uncovered a
6:43
few employees had intentionally violated our animal welfare
6:47
and training standards and procedures.
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Per our zero tolerance policy, we immediately terminated
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those individuals and referred them to Fresno County
6:56
Law Enforcement where they will be prosecuted to
6:58
the fullest extent of the law, said Randy
7:00
Boyce, General Counsel for Foster Farms.
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Put simply, the conduct was counter to everything
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we stand for as a company and our
7:08
actions ensure those responsible are held accountable.
7:11
So now I wanna go back to the
7:14
head of the organisation that published that undercover
7:17
investigation, Ben Williamson, what is your response to
7:21
Foster Farms response?
7:24
Well, when I first read that statement, I
7:26
thought, okay, they are acknowledging that there is
7:30
cruelty involved.
7:31
They're acknowledging that there are individuals responsible who
7:35
have now been fired and that they themselves
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are calling for the Fresno District Attorney to
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file charges against those individuals.
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What they were obviously doing as well was
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deflecting any criticism against them as a company,
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saying that they will instead do some retraining,
7:52
change some management supervision practises and trying to
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deflect any attention.
7:57
But on closer reading of the statement, they're
8:01
trying to actually distance themselves from the video.
8:03
This might be a completely separate instance of
8:06
cruelty that they're actually purporting here.
8:09
They're not actually linking what they've discovered as
8:12
intentional violations of their animal welfare and training
8:14
standards to our video.
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So it could be a completely different incident.
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We also have no way of verifying that
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the individuals who have been fired purportedly are
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the same individuals featured in our video.
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So we have a lot of questions about
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their statement.
8:29
Again, we're glad that they seem to be
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acknowledging that animal cruelty has no place in
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farms.
8:36
But the truth is, Jane, you and I
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both know that animal cruelty is a part
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of animal agriculture.
8:43
The amount of hours that these people are
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working, the amount of birds on the farm,
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there's 15,000 birds here.
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You can't ensure that any of those birds
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are living a good life.
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And it's just running over them with forklifts
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and backing up over them with forklifts, throwing
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them into these cages, as we can see
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on the video.
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It's horrible, it's egregious, and Foster Farms has
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to bear culpability on this.
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Foster Farms is unique amongst many animal agriculture
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companies.
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It employs all of these individuals.
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They're not contracted out.
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They're not contract growers.
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They're not contract catching company.
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These are all Foster Farms employees.
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They own the farms, they own the birds,
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and they employ the individuals.
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So Foster Farms surely has some corporate responsibility
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here.
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What's more, California law is fairly unique in
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that not only does it suggest that corporations
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should be held accountable for acts of animal
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cruelty involved on their farms, they also invite
9:46
it.
9:46
They say corporations must be held responsible for
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the actions of their employees.
9:50
So we think we're in a pretty good
9:52
place.
9:52
We think that the Fresno DA will pick
9:56
this up and will file the cruelty charges.
9:59
We've alleged 206 total charges against Foster Farms,
10:03
against the workers, against the supervisors, and we're
10:06
hopeful that the DA will agree with us
10:08
and move this forward.
10:11
So let me ask you the timeline that
10:14
this occurred, because sometimes companies say, well, this
10:17
is taken out of context.
10:19
These are a few bad apples.
10:20
That's essentially what they're sort of saying.
10:23
They're saying that the people who are doing
10:25
this, this specific individuals are going to be
10:27
prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
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However, if this is happening over, let's say
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a month, and that's what I wanna check
10:37
with you, wouldn't the people who are the
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supervisors see some of this?
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I mean, if you're running over chickens with
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a forklift and there's any supervisor there, I
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would assume that they would ultimately see that.
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What is your take on that?
10:57
Yeah, absolutely.
10:58
You're right on the timeline.
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It happened over a month, but it happened
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over a month between June and July of
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this year.
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We could have picked any month of the
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year.
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We could have picked any farm.
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This kind of stuff is endemic to animal
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agriculture.
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The number of birds on these farms, the
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speed at which they work, throwing of these
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animals, backing up over them with forklifts.
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It's the kind of thing that is horrible
11:21
to watch, but unfortunately is endemic and a
11:23
part of animal agriculture.
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You simply cannot remove the animal cruelty from
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animal agriculture.
11:30
You're right.
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The companies, we always see this response.
11:33
We always see companies say, this is a
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few bad apples.
11:36
We're retraining.
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It's rare that they call for the prosecution
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themselves.
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That's a step forward, but they also attack
11:44
the people who put out this video.
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They want to talk about that we're a
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vegan organisation and we're just trying to get
11:51
people to go vegan.
11:51
I think when you see the footage, it's
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hard to make any separate inference than the
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best thing to do is to leave animals
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off your plate.
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So we see this response all the time,
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but when you keep seeing the same cruelty
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over and over again, then it's not just
12:07
a few bad apples.
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It's endemic in the animal agriculture industry.
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So where do we go from here?
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And by the way, I want to say,
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I invite Foster Farms on anytime.
12:18
Again, we tried to reach them.
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They didn't respond to me.
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And I reached out approximately six times, but
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then we did get that statement that they
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gave, which I'll put up here to the
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poultry magazine or the poultry publication.
12:32
But we do invite Foster Farms on anytime.
12:36
We would love to dialogue with you.
12:38
We would love to discuss this with you.
12:42
You are reportedly the largest poultry producer in
12:45
California and you supply chickens to the biggest
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supermarkets.
12:53
I mean, I saw the list of supermarkets.
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It's the supermarkets that everybody shops at.
12:57
And so I have to ask you, Ben,
13:01
ultimately this is a consumer issue.
13:04
I mean, if people are watching this and
13:06
it's upsetting them, and then they go out
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and they buy the chickens, they're the ones
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paying for the production of these chickens.
13:15
Yeah, they might not be the people directly
13:18
committing the cruelty to animals, but they are
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paying the people who are committing the cruelty.
13:23
And so the best thing that any individual,
13:25
any of your viewers can do, which I'm
13:26
sure they do, is to stop feeding animals,
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period.
13:31
You're right about Foster Farms and their customers.
13:34
They supply Albertsons and Walmart and Kroger, among
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others that listed on their website.
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And I think the store should also be
13:42
taking some responsibility here.
13:44
They should be saying to Foster Farms, you
13:46
know, this is unacceptable.
13:47
We will not stop your products anymore.
13:50
But we know it's ultimately a business decision
13:53
when you are paying very little amount of
13:56
money per bird and then you're forcing people
14:01
to put it on their plates.
14:03
That's unfortunately the reality, is that it's a
14:08
problem where the costs are externalised to the
14:11
animals themselves.
14:13
People paying to eat chicken, it's the animals
14:18
that eventually pay the ultimate price.
14:20
And this is the way that animals are
14:21
farmed in this country.
14:23
Well, I wanna say that at Unchained TV,
14:29
you know, and there you are, right there
14:31
on Unchained TV behind me.
14:33
If you're watching, we're a streaming network that
14:37
is available for free download.
14:39
We're a 501C3 nonprofit available for free download
14:45
on any cell phone, just put in Unchained
14:47
TV, on any television with an Apple TV
14:51
device, a Amazon Fire Stick or a Roku
14:54
device.
14:54
We're also available on all Samsung TVs and
14:56
soon to be all LG TVs.
15:00
But we just commissioned a documentary done by
15:03
a woman who runs a chicken sanctuary.
15:06
And you have to watch, it's called Meet
15:08
the Chickens.
15:10
And it's really, really fascinating because it shows
15:14
that chickens, which a lot of people just
15:17
think of as sort of like a nugget
15:19
are individuals and they have very unique personalities
15:25
each and every one of them.
15:26
Like everything I thought about them was wrong.
15:28
And I think that as a society, everything
15:34
that we think about them, if we think
15:37
about them at all is wrong.
15:40
They are all individuals with unique personalities, unique
15:47
faces and voices and preferences, likes and dislikes,
15:54
little idiosyncrasies.
15:57
They're just as individual as our dogs and
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our cats.
16:02
And I think if society knew who they
16:07
really are, we would treat them a lot
16:12
better than we do.
16:14
We currently have 25 chickens here, all of
16:19
them rescues.
16:20
Most of them are Cornish crosses, these big
16:25
white birds.
16:26
They are considered meat birds, broiler chickens.
16:33
We kill about 9 billion of them a
16:35
year in this country alone.
16:37
So it's not really an overstatement to say
16:39
that it's a miracle that any of them
16:41
have made it here.
16:43
Oh man, this documentary and it's not graphic
16:46
unlike the video we're showing you today, but
16:50
please check it out.
16:51
It's on Unchained TV and it was done
16:54
by a woman who has actually, the woman
16:56
you're looking at, Tracy Glover.
16:58
She doesn't have experience as a documentarian, but
17:02
we just gave her a mic and a
17:06
stabiliser and she pulled off this really touching
17:10
half hour documentary about these individual chickens that
17:14
she has rescued, each with their own story.
17:18
And as a human being, it's just then
17:21
when you see what is happening to these
17:24
chickens in industrialised factory farming, wow, it just
17:28
makes it even more difficult to really comprehend
17:36
the magnitude of what we're talking about, Ben.
17:41
I mean, the magnitude, the number of individuals,
17:47
it's mind boggling.
17:50
Yeah, I mean, we're talking about 15,000
17:53
birds on this one farm.
17:54
We know that the number of birds in
17:56
farms can go up to the several hundred
17:58
thousands.
17:59
And then ultimately, as you said, 9 billion
18:04
birds every year in the United States.
18:08
So it's an unimaginable scale really.
18:11
And we're very lucky in that we're able
18:13
to go into these places a few times
18:15
a year and really document what happens there
18:19
for people who, quite obviously, they want to
18:21
hide the truth from the consumers.
18:24
We're able to go in and take this
18:26
footage and then hopefully get charges put against
18:29
the people responsible and the corporations responsible, but
18:32
it doesn't happen enough because we're still not
18:36
able to get this message through necessarily to
18:39
everybody.
18:40
There's a vast gap between what people think
18:43
these animals' lives are like and the reality
18:45
that we show every time we do one
18:47
of these investigations.
18:48
And it's through people like you, Jane, and
18:50
your show, and everyone who's watching, it's really
18:54
up to all of us to help share
18:55
these investigations, tell people who don't otherwise know
18:59
just what goes on here and show them
19:01
for themselves.
19:02
Because I think seeing is really believing.
19:04
And once you see this, it's really hard
19:06
to imagine that there's anything else other than
19:09
this kind of stuff going on.
19:11
So tell us about the person.
19:13
I know you can't reveal his or her
19:15
identity, but tell us about the person who
19:16
recorded all this.
19:18
They have to go in there day after
19:20
day and essentially, what?
19:24
They are working there?
19:26
What happens?
19:28
Yeah, they're part of the catching crew.
19:31
Obviously, I don't want to give up too
19:33
much about how we conduct these things for
19:34
their safety and for the integrity of the
19:37
campaign, of the investigations.
19:39
But yeah, it's a horrible thing to have
19:41
to see this and not react as any
19:45
human being surely would with any sympathy in
19:48
caring for these birds.
19:49
The most important thing is that they document
19:51
the cruelty, that we're able to press charges
19:54
and hold people and corporations accountable for what
19:58
they're seeing and what they're being asked to
20:00
be part of.
20:01
And ultimately, we'll save more animals that way.
20:06
But yeah, it's a horrifying thing to have
20:08
to do this, to keep up a pretence,
20:11
to be party to it, to stand by
20:13
and not do anything about it other than
20:15
film and document and record and take notes.
20:18
All of these notes, all of the footage
20:20
helps build the case, not only for people
20:24
to go vegan, but also for the law
20:26
enforcement to do their job and hold people
20:28
accountable.
20:30
And what's really interesting is, and I want
20:33
to say, we invite foster farms on any
20:35
time to respond further.
20:37
We've read your statement.
20:39
Now, this is off their website, American Humane
20:42
Association certified.
20:44
They say they're certified by the American Humane
20:46
Association and that the chickens they raise enjoy
20:50
the five freedoms, freedom from hunger or thirst,
20:53
freedom from discomfort, freedom from injury, pain or
20:56
disease, freedom from cages, freedom from fear and
21:00
distress.
21:01
What is your response to foster farms' five
21:06
freedoms?
21:08
I mean, it's a bit of a joke,
21:09
isn't it really?
21:10
There's no way that you can see the
21:12
footage of the birds being thrown into the
21:15
cages, being run over by forklift trucks and
21:18
then think that they're free from discomfort or
21:21
injury.
21:23
Also, we know that the investigator recorded that
21:26
the temperatures exceeded 100 degrees.
21:29
You know, they're not free from thirst or
21:31
hunger or discomfort for those reasons as well.
21:35
So yeah, I mean, it's a bit of
21:37
a joke.
21:38
It's a bit of humane washing.
21:41
And, you know, unfortunately it will probably continue.
21:44
It will probably, American Humane will, might come
21:47
out and say something similar, like this is
21:48
horrible, we don't condone this, but then very
21:51
little is going to happen as a result.
21:53
So that's why it's up to all of
21:54
us to take action ourselves and to be
21:58
responsible for making sure this cruelty doesn't go
22:00
on by, you know, forcing these corporations to
22:04
stop the business of chicken farming.
22:06
Have you reached out to the American Humane
22:09
Association and shown them this video and said,
22:13
hey, you're certifying this company, this, I mean,
22:17
have you talked to them?
22:20
I wouldn't know what the investigators did before
22:23
I got here a week and a half
22:25
ago, but I can tell you that American
22:29
Humane will likely respond at least internally to
22:34
say that this is horrible.
22:35
It doesn't conform to our standards of the
22:37
five freedoms.
22:38
It doesn't conform to the standards of healthy,
22:41
enriching lives for these birds.
22:43
But how many times do you have to
22:45
see such a thing before you say, well,
22:48
actually this is endemic and the kind of
22:51
businesses that are taking our label and using
22:53
our brand as a humane shield before you
22:57
say enough is enough and we're not going
22:59
to certify foster farms or, you know, any
23:03
of these types of businesses again.
23:05
Yeah, now, Tracy Winter Glover, who is the
23:07
person who did the documentary, Meet the Chickens,
23:09
which I really urge you to watch on
23:11
Unchained TV, she says, people will say this
23:14
is an anomaly, but the truth is it's
23:16
the norm, just unbearably heartbreaking.
23:19
You know, what's your response to that?
23:21
Because again, if we go back to the
23:24
statement by the company, they're saying, you know,
23:29
this is not acceptable.
23:31
We reported the people doing this to authorities
23:34
and they're going to be prosecuted.
23:37
Yeah, I think again, it's a shirking responsibility
23:40
as a corporation.
23:42
You know, these individuals were employed by foster
23:45
farms.
23:46
The birds were owned, so to speak, by
23:49
foster farms.
23:50
The farms were owned by foster farms.
23:52
To say that this is just a few
23:54
bad apples, it's your company that is not
23:57
putting in the supervision necessary to safeguard the
24:01
health and lives of these animals, to make
24:04
sure that these things don't happen to them.
24:06
You can't just say they didn't play by
24:09
our rules.
24:10
If you're not enforcing your rules, then you
24:12
are responsible for what happens underneath them.
24:15
So you took this video to the Fresno
24:18
County District Attorney's Office.
24:21
And, you know, we know historically, and there's
24:24
cases up and down California and other parts
24:26
of the nation where the district attorneys refuse
24:29
to prosecute.
24:31
They might sometimes prosecute the individuals.
24:34
It seems like foster farms was saying they
24:36
will be prosecuted.
24:39
I would think that would be up to
24:41
the district attorney to make that announcement, but
24:43
maybe he or she will.
24:45
But will they go after the corporation?
24:48
Did you ask them to go?
24:50
After the corporation and filed charges against the
24:52
corporation, and if so, what was their response?
24:55
We did.
24:56
Foster Farms, we believe, is culpable for the
24:59
actions of its employees here.
25:01
And California, as I said, is pretty unique.
25:04
It has a good, relatively to some other
25:07
states, a good penal code, which allows for
25:10
prosecutions to be brought up against, in fact,
25:12
invites prosecutions to be brought against companies for
25:18
the behaviour of its employees.
25:21
So we think the DA will agree with
25:23
us and agree that Foster Farms is culpable
25:26
and not really buy what Foster Farms is
25:29
selling here, which is trying to say it's
25:31
the action of a few individuals that this
25:33
situation has been dealt with, we've fired them,
25:35
we're retraining.
25:37
You know, that's not good enough.
25:39
And just because, well, even if it was
25:43
no longer going on, even if the retraining
25:44
does work, it still happened.
25:48
And Foster Farms and its employees need to
25:51
be held accountable for the abuses that we've
25:52
seen.
25:54
So what did the DA say?
25:56
Were you able to have a discussion with
25:57
anybody from that office?
25:59
The case is ongoing.
26:00
We're in communication with the DA.
26:03
So we're just awaiting the next steps on
26:05
their behalf.
26:05
And as I say, we're confident that they
26:07
will agree that there have been egregious violations
26:12
of California's cruelty to animals statutes here.
26:15
And that Foster Farms, its employees, its supervisors
26:18
are all responsible.
26:21
So do you ever get to dialogue with
26:25
Foster Farms?
26:26
I mean, I tried, as you saw, calling,
26:30
emailing, filling out a form on the website,
26:33
did not get a response.
26:35
Now, again, I invite Foster Farms on anytime
26:38
to respond further.
26:40
They did issue a statement, we read it.
26:42
And so do you ever get to dialogue
26:46
with Foster Farms?
26:49
So I've held a number of positions and
26:52
maybe we'll talk a little bit more about
26:53
my background in the past.
26:58
So working for other organisations that try to
27:03
do a bit more corporate engagement, we see
27:06
these organisations, we see chicken companies put up
27:09
a wall to anyone in the animal protection
27:11
movement.
27:11
They are just not interested in what we
27:13
have to say.
27:14
They use their pay to play humane shields
27:18
and they try to do everything that they
27:21
can through deceptive marketing practises to convince everyone
27:24
that everything's rosy.
27:27
And as far as engaging with the animal
27:29
protection community, it's just not something that they
27:32
welcome and that they're receptive to.
27:35
They will occasionally try to make piecemeal changes
27:38
and get the support of some people in
27:40
the animal protection community.
27:42
But as far as people like myself who
27:46
are calling for people to stop eating animals,
27:48
it's not in their business interest to necessarily
27:51
engage.
27:52
And so they'd rather just stonewall us, spend
27:54
a lot more money on marketing than we
27:57
have in our total operating budgets.
27:59
This is a $3 billion company, as you
28:01
said, the largest in California.
28:03
They can just purport through marketing efforts that
28:08
they're doing something completely different to what we're
28:10
able to expose on a month-long investigation.
28:13
So no, they're not very receptive to engagement
28:16
at all in my experience.
28:18
What about fines?
28:20
Somebody said here, the company needs to be
28:22
heavily fined.
28:23
Is this regulated?
28:24
So is it really just about the DA
28:27
making an arbitrary decision as to whether or
28:31
not to file criminal charges?
28:34
What regulations are being broken?
28:36
And what about legal action that is not
28:39
criminal on the civil side?
28:42
Yeah, it's all a possibility.
28:44
The first port of call is for the
28:46
DA to get involved and take it on
28:48
from a government perspective.
28:50
There are other legal avenues open if that
28:52
doesn't happen.
28:54
Fines are one of the punishments that we
28:55
see sometimes doled out.
28:58
Certainly not enough.
28:59
As you say, often the prosecutors just won't
29:02
pick up the case and use some really
29:05
poor reasoning as far as we're concerned to
29:07
shirk responsibility themselves and not hold these corporations
29:12
to account.
29:13
Fines, penalties, sentences, bans from working with animals
29:17
are other ways that people have been held
29:20
responsible in the past.
29:21
But I don't think anyone can kind of
29:24
see this, the footage that we've documented and
29:28
say that there's really much punishment that can
29:33
fit the crime of what they've put these
29:34
birds through.
29:36
So one of our commenters who happens to
29:39
be watching on YouTube, I believe, can I
29:42
support while still eating meat or will you
29:44
hate me?
29:44
What's your response?
29:46
I don't hate anybody.
29:49
It's a personal journey going vegan and food
29:53
is such a personal thing with so many
29:56
different social societal factors involved in people's decision
30:01
-making.
30:01
We think that when people see the kind
30:04
of footage that our investigators are able to
30:07
capture, when they learn more about the issues,
30:09
there's no other conclusion than to go vegan.
30:12
But we know that food preferences evolve over
30:16
time and that people's vegan journey can be
30:20
long and they can come at it from
30:22
many different ways.
30:24
But ultimately, you as a consumer, if you
30:26
don't want this kind of thing to happen,
30:29
the only real thing you can do is
30:30
to not participate in animal agriculture by leaving
30:33
animals off your plate.
30:34
And if you are just joining us, we've
30:37
been reporting breaking news.
30:39
I believe Unchained TV is the first news
30:42
organisation to put out this video that was
30:47
obtained by Animal Outlook over this past summer.
30:51
An undercover investigator was there for about a
30:53
month at a foster farm's facility and saw
30:57
some pretty horrifying things.
30:59
There's a forklift running over live birds and
31:04
birds were left alive, suffering.
31:07
You can see what's going on here.
31:11
In one instance, a driver crashes forklift into
31:15
a building.
31:16
I mean, these are drivers who have these
31:19
chickens.
31:21
I honestly, I don't really have any words
31:25
for this video to describe it.
31:27
Sure, you could sit there and describe it,
31:29
but it's like, to me personally, my feeling,
31:34
it's like watching a horror show.
31:36
And this is California's largest poultry producer.
31:40
I wanna say that again.
31:41
This is California's largest poultry producer.
31:45
When you're going to the supermarkets, the biggest
31:48
supermarkets in California, there's a very good chance
31:51
if you're getting chicken that came from this
31:54
situation.
31:55
So, you know, here's the thing though.
32:00
I wanna say this.
32:03
We, I personally, as a journalist who has
32:05
been doing this now for several decades, I
32:09
have covered situations like this over and over
32:13
and over again, various companies.
32:16
Indeed, one could argue that it is very
32:19
rare.
32:20
Maybe it's never even happened where you go
32:22
into a factory farm for animals and everything's
32:25
hunky-dory.
32:26
It seems to me my personal experience on
32:30
the industry as a whole is that every
32:32
time investigators have gone in and they're investigators
32:35
from Animal Outlook and from Animal Equality and
32:38
from PETA and from Last Chance, I mean,
32:40
it goes on and on.
32:42
Organisations have been doing this for the longest
32:43
time.
32:45
They find disturbing situations.
32:49
They just find things that people go, oh
32:52
my God, oh my God, this is horrible.
32:54
And nevertheless, I just wanna show you a
32:57
graphic and I'm gonna stop this video for
33:01
a second to show you the graphic.
33:04
Here's the graphic.
33:07
Animal consumption continues to skyrocket.
33:11
This is from like the early 60s to
33:13
2022.
33:15
You can see that the number of animals
33:18
is skyrocketing and chickens are the most by
33:23
far consumed animal.
33:26
If we stopped eating chickens, the number of
33:31
animals killed would dramatically drop by something like
33:35
more than 90%.
33:39
Correct me if I'm wrong, Ben.
33:42
No, you're absolutely right.
33:43
Unfortunately, even though we've exposed numerous chicken farms
33:49
and other kinds of farms, numerous corporations who
33:52
are involved in this cruelty, even though it's
33:55
all available on our website, animaloutlook.org, for
33:59
anyone to access at any time, sadly, the
34:02
kind of cognitive dissonance of people just buying
34:07
what the industry is selling and buying the
34:09
lies, the myths, the humane washing just makes
34:13
people feel okay and more comfortable about eating
34:16
animals when it's just the reality is so
34:19
different from what the companies are putting out
34:23
there.
34:23
So yeah, sadly, the number is increasing.
34:26
At some stage, we do hope that we
34:28
reach peak meat, as they call it, and
34:30
it starts dropping.
34:32
We'd know that plant-based meat substitutes are
34:35
getting better and better and more widely available.
34:38
We do think as information becomes more dispersed
34:43
and more available to people, and that people
34:46
will make the right decision and leave animals
34:49
off their plates and go for some of
34:51
the more delicious plant-based meat substitutes if
34:53
that's the way they wanna go.
34:56
But yeah, it's a sad state of affairs
34:58
that no matter how many times we do
34:59
these investigations, we know that the kind of
35:05
societal pressures, family, community, the type of messaging
35:08
that works.
35:09
We've done a lot of work on behavioural
35:11
sciences in recent years.
35:12
I think that's one of the best things
35:13
that the movement has done in recent years
35:15
is really try to understand what's involved in
35:17
people's decision-making, from nudge behaviour and behavioural
35:20
sciences.
35:22
But we're not there yet.
35:24
The message isn't getting through in the way
35:26
that we want it to.
35:28
Your audience is fantastic, and I'm sure everyone
35:30
is more enlightened than most who watch your
35:32
show, but it's up to all of us,
35:35
I think, to share the responsibility of getting
35:37
these messages out to make sure that we
35:39
start to bring that graph down.
35:40
Yes, and I just wanna read some of
35:43
the comments.
35:43
I've been vegan for 20 years and I'll
35:44
die vegan.
35:46
FYI, we all start out vegan.
35:47
Interesting point.
35:49
Tiffany Brunelli, there is no right way to
35:51
do the wrong thing.
35:53
Leave it off your plate.
35:55
And we also have a statement from Kim
36:02
Delgado.
36:03
Oh, geez, the numbers of eating animals should
36:05
be dropping.
36:06
All these years, all the information.
36:08
We must continue to get the truth out
36:11
there.
36:12
Tina, the workers don't get paid much.
36:17
Workers don't get paid much.
36:18
Don't pay the abuse and murder of these
36:20
innocent beings.
36:21
Go vegan.
36:22
And it was very interesting to get this
36:25
message from Erin Wing, who I know is
36:28
a former undercover investigator at Animal Outlook who
36:32
has been given awards for her courageous and
36:35
really risky undercover investigations.
36:38
She says, after conducting and managing investigations into
36:41
multiple chicken farms and farming facilities over the
36:44
course of seven years, the treatment is always
36:47
the same, brutal and heartbreaking.
36:50
And I think that what we have to
36:54
consider is when you're talking these kinds of
36:58
numbers, billions of animals being killed.
37:02
I mean, millions and millions and millions of
37:04
chickens have been killed in the amount of
37:06
time we've been talking today.
37:08
How can you do that nicely?
37:10
Is there any possible way to do that
37:13
nicely?
37:14
Or does the sheer number result in, well,
37:18
the footage that you revealed to the public
37:21
that we are showing you now, Ben?
37:24
Yeah, there's no such thing as humane meat.
37:29
There are degrees of barbarity and inhumaneness, but
37:33
there's no way to take the life of
37:35
an animal humanely because ultimately they don't want
37:39
to die.
37:40
They don't want to be treated in this
37:42
way and in any way that means that
37:45
they'll be killed prematurely in a fraction of
37:48
their natural lifespan.
37:50
So the only thing to do is to
37:52
stop eating them altogether.
37:55
Now, I will say that part of this
37:59
footage, actually, we weren't able to show as
38:02
much of the cruelty as we recorded.
38:06
There were so many incidences of birds being
38:10
thrown into those cages, so many incidences of
38:12
the forklifts being driven over the birds who
38:16
have been grown so large for their breast
38:19
meat that their bodies can't support, their legs
38:22
can't support their own weight, that they couldn't
38:24
get out of the way.
38:25
And rather than stopping the forklift, moving the
38:28
animals out of the way, it's just more
38:31
expedious, it's more profitable to run the animals
38:34
over and count that as a loss.
38:36
Well, Tracy Glover is saying exactly, this is
38:39
the chicken industry.
38:40
How can we expect the workers to see
38:42
these babies for the individual sentient beings they
38:44
are when we say their lives don't matter?
38:48
They, meaning the workers, become desensitised.
38:50
They couldn't do their jobs if they didn't
38:52
become desensitised.
38:54
It's inevitable there will be this abuse.
38:57
This is an industry that by definition is
38:59
based on violence and death.
39:00
So I have to ask you, Ben, are
39:03
the workers then sort of scapegoated if you
39:09
take her point of view?
39:10
They're gonna be punished possibly.
39:12
The company says they're gonna be prosecuted.
39:16
Take it away.
39:18
Yeah, absolutely.
39:19
The companies are trying, you can see in
39:20
their statement that Foster Farm is trying to
39:22
scapegoat these few bad apples, as they say,
39:25
that they're blaming the poorest of the whole
39:29
Foster Farms organisation, which is the lowest paid
39:31
workers in the system.
39:33
But Foster Farms knows that this type of
39:36
abuse takes place in its supply chain.
39:39
And they're simply just trying to deflect any
39:41
criticism and shirk corporate responsibility for the abuse
39:45
that we've uncovered and that is constantly uncovered.
39:47
We've got investigations going back to 2015 with
39:50
Foster Farms and other organisations do as well.
39:54
So yeah, this takes place all over the
39:56
country, a whole number of all the top
39:59
chicken producers in the country.
40:02
You'll find this kind of place completely commonplace.
40:06
Well, we've got another long comment here.
40:08
Okay, so I don't like eating meat for
40:10
the main reason because of all the unnecessary
40:11
treatment and cruelty toward these sentient beings.
40:15
And you can get all your necessary nutrients
40:17
in other ways, but I have dogs that
40:19
eat raw because it is better for them.
40:21
It bothers me sometimes when I have to
40:23
prepare their food.
40:24
And yes, the entire animal is used, but
40:26
I don't know what else healthy you could
40:28
give them to eat.
40:29
Myself not eating is one thing, but what
40:31
about our pets?
40:32
Well, I have two dogs and this one
40:36
here is one of the two and she's
40:38
100% vegan.
40:40
And my gosh, her energy level is off
40:43
the charts.
40:44
She's perfectly healthy.
40:45
So there's plenty of vegan options for your
40:49
companion animals.
40:51
Just wanted to answer that question there.
40:54
Let's talk a little bit about you.
40:57
You're very modest, but you have an incredible,
41:00
I was reading it and I could be
41:02
going on all day, recycled paper by the
41:05
way, talking about all the different things you've
41:08
done.
41:09
You're originally from London, my favourite city.
41:12
I have to say one of my favourite
41:14
cities, but really my favourite city.
41:17
And you worked at PETA, United Kingdom, PETA
41:20
US.
41:21
Then you were the director at World Animal
41:24
Protection and then the executive director at Compassion
41:28
World Farming.
41:29
Wow.
41:30
Tell us about your journey, Ben.
41:34
Yeah, I'm very happy to.
41:35
So I'll start you off at the beginning.
41:39
My vegan origin story was, I came from
41:45
the kind of Gary Francione school.
41:47
I really got into the abolitionist approach.
41:49
That was my entry point into the world
41:51
of veganism.
41:52
And just the arguments that they were making
41:54
completely made sense.
41:56
That there is no way to do this
41:57
ethically and really abolitionism is the only way
42:03
to go.
42:04
So at the time, my background was actually
42:07
in economics.
42:08
I did economics at university and I did
42:11
my master's in political economy at London School
42:13
of Economics.
42:15
And I was working for an economics think
42:16
tank in the city of London.
42:18
And it was around the time of the
42:21
financial crisis in 2008, 2009.
42:24
And there was a lot of demand from
42:26
the press to know what would happen with
42:29
labour market, with interest rates and taxes.
42:32
And so I was doing a lot of
42:34
press at the time.
42:34
And I thought, well, wouldn't it be great
42:36
to be able to combine my skillset, which
42:39
increasingly was press with my passion, which was
42:45
increasingly veganism.
42:48
And so I joined PETA.
42:49
They were the largest animal organisation, the first
42:53
one in my kind of sphere of influence.
42:55
And I had a very enjoyable career with
42:59
PETA for seven years, first in the U
43:01
.S., sorry, first in the UK, in my
43:03
hometown of London.
43:04
And then I moved, I was lucky enough
43:06
to move to Los Angeles with PETA.
43:08
Up until about 2019.
43:11
And then, as you say, I moved into
43:13
campaigns from press and then more organisational responsibility
43:16
after that.
43:18
So yeah, I've been around, I've been lucky
43:20
enough to study under the tutelage of some
43:23
great leaders in our organisation, Ingrid Newkirk and
43:27
Steve McIver and Phil.
43:33
So compassion.
43:34
And so it's just really, I'm really grateful
43:37
to have studied under some great inspirational people
43:41
and to be able now to bring that
43:42
to Animal Outlook.
43:43
As I say, I'm two weeks into the
43:45
job or not even two weeks into the
43:46
job.
43:47
But I think Animal Outlook, in terms of
43:50
what the parts of what I think is
43:52
going to help move the needle for animals
43:54
is really on point.
43:57
People don't know it's a 29-year organisation.
43:59
We're gonna celebrate our 30th year next year.
44:02
It started out as a homework, kind of
44:05
a high school club.
44:07
And has developed into one of the leading
44:09
kind of mid-size organisations in the animal
44:12
protection movement.
44:13
The focus on investigations and legal work and
44:16
vegan outreach and now farmer transitions as well
44:21
is something that I think fits the skill
44:24
sets that I've learned in communications and campaigns.
44:27
My job is really, as I see it,
44:29
to help amplify that work and bring, deliver
44:31
some of the amazing investigations and legal groundbreaking
44:34
legal cases that we've done.
44:36
We can continue to do to more of
44:39
the mainstream public.
44:41
So to ask you a provocative question, I
44:45
see that back, I would say 20 years,
44:49
15 years ago, 20 years ago, the mainstream
44:52
media was more likely to cover an undercover
44:55
investigation.
44:57
Now I've noticed that they often pretend it
45:01
didn't happen.
45:01
And that's one of the reasons we started
45:03
Unchained TV, the world's only non-profit vegan
45:06
streaming television network to get these stories out.
45:11
I even said to you, who else has
45:13
covered this?
45:14
Now, now that Foster Farms has issued a
45:16
statement, maybe I hope there will be more
45:18
coverage.
45:18
We never want the exclusive on stories like
45:20
this, never.
45:21
But one of the reasons we started it
45:23
is that it's, to me, it feels more
45:26
and more, and I was in mainstream media
45:28
for more than three decades, that the mainstream
45:30
media has been co-opted by the meat,
45:33
dairy, and pharmaceutical industries, which are very intertwined.
45:37
And so you're not seeing the kind of
45:40
reporting that you even saw back 20 years
45:45
ago when it comes to these undercover investigations.
45:48
What are your thoughts on that?
45:50
I think you're absolutely right.
45:52
And I think that that has been my
45:54
experience as well.
45:55
I think a couple of things are happening.
45:58
Yes, the mainstream media is kind of getting
46:01
scared off by the litigiousness of some of
46:03
these companies.
46:04
They don't want to put their head above
46:05
the parapet because they're wondering, well, what if
46:08
I get sued?
46:09
As a media organisation, if I'm giving a
46:12
voice to allegations that end up not having
46:16
any reality, I think that- Well, let
46:17
me just say this.
46:19
I understand what you're saying, and I'm always
46:21
very cautious as a journalist.
46:23
You presented videotaped evidence.
46:26
Now, sometimes in past, the companies go, this
46:30
was taken out of context.
46:32
Honestly, they didn't suggest that.
46:34
They said, Foster Farms, and I'll read the
46:37
statement again, and we invite Foster Farms on
46:41
any time.
46:42
We would love to dialogue with you.
46:44
It says, as quoted in this poultry publication,
46:50
four weeks ago, Foster Farms uncovered a few
46:52
employees had intentionally violated our animal welfare and
46:55
training standards and procedures.
46:56
Per our zero tolerance policy, we immediately terminated
47:00
those involved and referred them to the Fresno
47:02
County Law Enforcement, where they will be prosecuted
47:05
to the fullest extent of the law, said
47:07
Randy Boyce, General Counsel for Foster Farms.
47:09
Put simply, the conduct was counter to everything
47:12
we stand for as a company, and our
47:14
actions ensure those responsible are held accountable.
47:18
You are saying the company itself is responsible.
47:21
You're asking the Fresno County District Attorney's Office
47:24
to prosecute the company, and we invite the
47:27
Fresno County District Attorney's Office on, so there
47:33
is the response from the company.
47:37
They're not saying this didn't happen.
47:39
They're not saying what companies often say is,
47:42
this was taken out of context.
47:44
They're saying, yeah, this is not like some
47:47
Hollywood production where it was made to look
47:54
like.
47:54
They're saying this happened.
47:56
They're acknowledging it.
47:57
Yeah, I mean, there might be a slight,
47:59
slight of hand in their statements.
48:01
They might, they haven't exactly linked it to
48:03
the video that we filmed, but ultimately they're
48:07
accepting that there has been some degree of
48:09
cruelty to animal violations that have taken place
48:11
at their farms, and they are saying that
48:13
they've taken responsibility for it, which, you know,
48:16
we would argue that they haven't until they
48:19
face themselves the- What would you like
48:23
to see the company do?
48:26
Well, ultimately, I think the company needs to
48:29
get out of the business of chicken farming.
48:31
As we know, chicken farming is, you can't
48:35
detach cruelty to animals from chicken farming.
48:37
We see it every time, but yeah, these
48:41
workers should never be allowed to work with
48:43
chickens.
48:43
Again, the supervisors should be held responsible, the
48:45
board of Foster Farm should be held responsible,
48:48
and it's ultimately up to law enforcement to
48:51
decide in this particular case which charges move
48:54
forward and how responsible Foster Farms is held.
48:59
But I would say as well, to go
49:00
back to our point about media, you know,
49:02
I could talk about media's willingness to embrace
49:04
these things all the time.
49:06
It's kind of a, it's a bit of
49:07
a paradox because we see so much of
49:10
this cruelty in investigations.
49:12
We do three or four of these kinds
49:13
of investigations a year.
49:15
The media's just a little, let's say, almost
49:18
tired of it.
49:19
It's more of a, it's like a man
49:20
bites dog.
49:21
What else is new?
49:22
We know that cruelty to animals exists in
49:24
factory farms.
49:25
We know it happens.
49:26
So they kind of think nothing's new, but
49:28
at the same time, we know that their
49:30
audience doesn't know this stuff.
49:32
We know that we ourselves as animal protection
49:34
advocates, we're constantly surprised by the degree of
49:37
cruelty that we see on these farms.
49:40
So, you know, it's a very strange state
49:43
of affairs where the media organisations say, oh,
49:46
this is just what happens.
49:48
But for some reason that is not getting
49:50
out to the public.
49:52
And please share this out.
49:53
We are streaming this on our streaming network
49:56
where you can comment as well as Facebook,
49:59
YouTube, X, LinkedIn, share it out.
50:06
You know, if indeed you're not gonna get
50:11
mainstream media coverage on this, then the only
50:15
way that we can do it is through
50:17
independent media, which is what we are, and
50:20
through people sharing it out.
50:25
And there it is when somebody says, I'm
50:26
sharing this out on every platform, it's a
50:28
click.
50:29
And that's, you never know the impact.
50:32
I actually sent this to somebody who, I
50:36
think we all have a situation where there's
50:39
somebody that we like very much, but they
50:41
completely disregard our position when it comes to
50:45
animal activism and veganism.
50:48
And I have a friend like that.
50:50
And, you know, I was looking at this
50:52
and I just texted her the link.
50:54
And I said, three minutes, watch it.
50:56
I didn't say anything else.
50:57
And she responded, this is sad.
51:01
That was it.
51:02
But I said, I appreciate you taking the
51:04
time to watch.
51:04
Thank you.
51:05
I didn't really wanna say anything more.
51:09
I don't wanna fight with people.
51:10
I just wanted her to see it.
51:12
Because one of the hard things is to
51:14
get people to watch these videos.
51:17
You know, that's why we have Unchained TV.
51:20
We have a lot of fun, upbeat videos,
51:22
cooking shows and reality TV shows and fun,
51:26
upbeat coverage.
51:27
But then mixed in with that is some
51:29
of these more serious, disturbing videos.
51:36
So, exactly.
51:37
Well, we only have a couple minutes.
51:40
I wanted to get your thoughts for where
51:42
Animal Outlook is going to go.
51:44
And, you know, having worked with many, many
51:47
different animal rights organisations over decades now, I
51:50
would say that, you know, what stands out
51:52
to me about Animal Outlook, and I've interviewed
51:55
some of the undercover investigators who, to me,
51:57
are the bravest people in the entire movement,
52:00
is your undercover investigations.
52:02
You're known for that.
52:03
Is there anything else you're gonna be focused
52:05
on?
52:06
Well, I really like the strategy that Cheryl
52:09
and my predecessor and Erica before have laid
52:13
out for Animal Outlook.
52:14
You know, it all starts with investigations.
52:16
That's how we get the truth.
52:17
That's how we know what's going on.
52:19
From there, we have a legal strategy.
52:21
We want impact legal advocacy, something that's not
52:23
only going to prosecute a few people at
52:25
a time, but actually something that's replicable that
52:29
other organisations, other firms can then use to
52:32
litigate properly in their jurisdictions.
52:35
That can be scalable and hold the whole
52:37
industry and the whole animal protection, the whole
52:41
animal farming system to account.
52:44
From there, obviously we use the investigations, the
52:47
legal work to create a vegan movement, to
52:50
say that there is no alternative to animal
52:53
cruelty within the animal farming industry.
52:56
Going vegan is the only way to actually,
52:59
to end the cruelty.
53:01
So vegan outreach has to be like the
53:03
tip of the spear really, because that's what
53:06
any single, that's the most, the best thing
53:08
that any single individual can do.
53:10
And from there, it's about just transition.
53:12
So helping farmers escape, because farmers are trapped
53:15
in this system too.
53:16
Farmers are under enormous amounts of debt when
53:19
they go into chicken farming, building the barns
53:21
and being responsible to the integrators usually, and
53:25
helping them transition out of animal farming so
53:26
that we can close that loop, having them
53:29
grow lettuce, having them grow mushrooms, having them
53:31
grow other things that do not harm, create
53:33
inequality to animals.
53:35
So really closing that loop and making sure
53:36
those things never happen again.
53:38
So I really like Animal Outlook's strategy of
53:40
how we go from the investigations all through
53:42
to the end, which is a more vegan
53:44
world.
53:46
Wow.
53:46
And do you think we're getting closer to
53:48
a more vegan world?
53:49
Because nothing goes straight up.
53:51
I mean, when Beyond Meat, for example, went
53:53
public, it was like a frenzy.
53:56
And then there was just an explosion of
54:00
plant-based restaurants, products, and now there's a
54:03
bit of a retrenchment because nothing ever goes
54:06
straight up, even the most successful stocks are
54:09
a bit of a craggy line.
54:11
Where do you think we are?
54:14
Unfortunately, I think it's something we're gonna be
54:16
forced into.
54:17
As humans, we don't kind of do much
54:20
until we're forced into it.
54:21
And we see what's going on with these
54:22
dreadful hurricanes in Florida now.
54:24
We know that animal agriculture is one of
54:26
the leading causes of climate change.
54:28
It's probably not going to be something that
54:32
we change until it's too late.
54:34
But if there are enough people calling for
54:35
it, we'll get there just in time and
54:37
we'll end animal agriculture while we still have
54:39
a planet to live on.
54:41
I just wanna say, Ben, it's been such
54:43
a delight speaking with you.
54:46
I find your backstory fascinating.
54:50
I know you're a very busy person, so
54:52
I wanna thank you for taking the time
54:54
to join us here on Unchained TV.
54:56
And I hope, if you haven't, that you
54:58
download our streaming network.
55:02
So it's a vegan Netflix.
55:05
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
55:07
I love Unchained TV.
55:08
Unchained, Unchained TV.
55:10
Your life will change.
55:11
It's just that easy.
55:12
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for
55:15
everybody.
55:16
Unchained TV changed my life.
55:18
Unchained TV is crushing it.
55:21
I love Unchained TV.
55:23
Unchained TV is my go-to.
55:25
Unchained TV, who knew?
55:27
Unchained, baby, yeah.
55:34
So download it.
55:35
The world's only vegan streaming network.
55:37
It's free.
55:38
You can download it on your phone, on
55:40
your TV, and you can also watch online
55:42
at unchainedtv.com.
55:44
See you next time.
55:46
Bye.
55:47
Thanks, Jen.