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Who killed JFK? · Stuff You Should Know

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  Speaker 1: Brought to you by the all New Toyota Corolla. Welcome
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  Speaker 1: to you Stuff you should know Fromdhouse Stuff Works dot Com. Hey,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, and very appropriately for this one, we have
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  Speaker 1: our buddy Matt, who's guest producing because he knows how
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: to do that kind of thing in addition to his
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  Speaker 1: awesome show stuff they don't want to know, which he
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  Speaker 1: does with our other friend Ben. And uh, it's it
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  Speaker 1: covers conspiracy theories. And we are podcasting on who killed
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  Speaker 1: JFK the day before the anniversary of that Fateful Day anniversary,
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  Speaker 1: right fiftieth anniversary November nine in Dallas. And so you
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  Speaker 1: made a joke that Matt was just gonna be over
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  Speaker 1: there the whole time going shia. Really uh huh. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it wasn't a mob. Yeah, three tramps whatever. I like
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  Speaker 1: the three trans want It's it's ridiculous, but it's my
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  Speaker 1: favorite one. Yeah, I got some good stuff on that
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  Speaker 1: um In two thousand three, Josh An ABC News poll
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  Speaker 1: came out ten years ago, seventy of Americans believe the
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  Speaker 1: assassination of John F. Kennedy was part of a broader plot.
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  Speaker 1: What percentage believe that and believe that Lee Harvey Oswald
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  Speaker 1: acted alone. Well, so it's the thing. It's it will
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  Speaker 1: not die. No, it won't. It never will, I don't think. Well,
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  Speaker 1: it's very much entrenched in popular culture as well too,
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  Speaker 1: Like even it's become a parody of itself as well. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you know, was just the idea that there's this outstanding
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  Speaker 1: question that will never be put to rest. Yeah, Like
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  Speaker 1: Lone Gunmen and Grassy Knoll, like all these are almost
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  Speaker 1: like buzz terms. Now, Yeah, the Lone Gunmen, they made
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  Speaker 1: an appearance in the X Files, they were recurring characters.
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  Speaker 1: Trio of Guys, Uh and the Misfits have a song
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  Speaker 1: about the afk assassination. Um magic Bullet but there's a
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  Speaker 1: band called Magic Bullets. There's all sorts of stuff. Um,
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  Speaker 1: So let's get into this because I think our colleague
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  Speaker 1: Jonathan's Tricklin of tech Stuff did a really good job
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  Speaker 1: of like handling what could have easily been like a
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  Speaker 1: fifty page quagmire. And he basically says like, but here's
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  Speaker 1: all the facts, and this is why the what's on
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  Speaker 1: the surface is probably the likeliest thing to happen and happened.
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  Speaker 1: We should see U a little bit here. There are
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  Speaker 1: hundreds of books written about various conspiracies, uh conspiracy theories
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  Speaker 1: on the JFK assassination, and we are we don't have
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  Speaker 1: like eighteen episodes to dedicate to this, so this will
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  Speaker 1: be a skimming of the topic. UM. I don't want
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  Speaker 1: anyone to be like, oh, Josh and Chuck are gonna
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  Speaker 1: get down the bottom of this, like people, that's some
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  Speaker 1: people's life's were, you know, dedicated to this? Yeah. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: if we're anything, we're dilettants. Every week we go from
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  Speaker 1: one subject to the next. That is true. So I
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  Speaker 1: guess let's begin at the beginning, just to get it
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  Speaker 1: all out on the table. Okay, all right, Okay, so Chucky.
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  Speaker 1: On November eighth, nineteen sixty three, UM, the Secret Service
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  Speaker 1: found the proposed route for the president Presidential Murtorcaide's visit
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  Speaker 1: to Dallas. And there was a reason the president was
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  Speaker 1: coming to Dallas. It was a very good reason. And UM,
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  Speaker 1: this is why he was in Texas, why he was
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  Speaker 1: trying to basically sort of unite the Democratic Party. Um,
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  Speaker 1: he was meeting with with his vice president and the
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  Speaker 1: governor of Texas, and there was some bickering going on
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  Speaker 1: within the party and he basically wanted to He's trying
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  Speaker 1: to get reelected, is what he was doing, right, But
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  Speaker 1: that was a big part of it. But it is true.
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  Speaker 1: Governor Connelly Um and Senator Richard Yarborough were publicly feuding.
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  Speaker 1: Um and they're both Democrats, so basically their great father
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  Speaker 1: was going to come and make peace with them among
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  Speaker 1: them publicly tour the state of Texas to help him
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  Speaker 1: self get reelected, but also to show Texas like, hey,
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  Speaker 1: the Texas Democrats are all family. Here. Family fights sometimes,
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  Speaker 1: but we're still all family and we still have the
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  Speaker 1: same grand vision. I know, I'm a Catholic from New England,
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  Speaker 1: but we're all the same. It me nine Texan. Uh so, okay,
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  Speaker 1: where are we? They find out the route from love
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  Speaker 1: Field to um Daly Plaza. They publicize that in the newspapers.
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  Speaker 1: Everyone knew about it because you know people, they wanted
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  Speaker 1: people to come out and wave like they did on
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  Speaker 1: November nine. The route was published in the papers and
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  Speaker 1: the published one Yes. And then on November twenty ninety three,
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  Speaker 1: that fateful day, Air Force one lands at love Field
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  Speaker 1: the President gets in his presidential limousine and they started
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  Speaker 1: making their way toward Deeley Plaza, along with Governor Connelly
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  Speaker 1: and his wife and of course Jackie and then a
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  Speaker 1: couple of secret service dudes. That's in the one car.
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  Speaker 1: In a car behind them is lb J Senator Yarborough
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  Speaker 1: and some other secret service guys. Right, that's right. So
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  Speaker 1: they're apparently as they were headed toward Deely Plausa, they
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  Speaker 1: got delayed because um, Kennedy stopped and uh kind of
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  Speaker 1: soaked up the people waving and cheering and all that
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  Speaker 1: and gave gave some back to him. Yeah, and so
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  Speaker 1: they were a little bit delayed, um getting to Deely Plaza.
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  Speaker 1: But when they did, at about twelve thirty, as they
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  Speaker 1: were arriving in the presidential motorcade, a shot rang out
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  Speaker 1: and then there was two more shots at least. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and uh with the second shot, they think the president
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  Speaker 1: he threw his hands up to his neck and Jackie
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  Speaker 1: leaned over to kind of like say what's going on,
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  Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, the back right side
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  Speaker 1: of the President's head blew off. Yes, it is very graphic.
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  Speaker 1: If you see the slowed down enhanced Zapruder film on
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  Speaker 1: YouTube today. Very affecting too. It's really sad. Yeah, it's
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  Speaker 1: terribly sad. And this was not even a part of
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  Speaker 1: our generation. Like this kind of stuff still makes people
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  Speaker 1: like our parents breakdown sometimes, you know. So that was
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  Speaker 1: thirty Within about anywhere between four and eight seconds, at
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  Speaker 1: least three shots were fired, one missed probably the second
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  Speaker 1: and third one hit the president first in the back
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  Speaker 1: of the neck, exited his throat, and the third one
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  Speaker 1: blew his head off. Yeah, let's talk about the that
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  Speaker 1: magic bullet since we should go ahead and clear that up.
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  Speaker 1: H it hit I guess this is a second bullet
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  Speaker 1: that passed through his throat. It went on to hit
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  Speaker 1: Governor Connelly in the back, but in his armpit. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: below the right armpit. Um exited below the right nipple.
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  Speaker 1: Um then hit his wrist that was in his lap,
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  Speaker 1: and then continue through the wrist through his left thigh.
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  Speaker 1: And that's why they call it the magic bullet. And
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  Speaker 1: if you've seen Oliver Stone's movie, they kind of, you know,
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  Speaker 1: m make fun of it in court like that is
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  Speaker 1: one magic bullet. That's where it got the name back
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  Speaker 1: into the left back into the left Remember the Seinfeld thing,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: yeah with the spit with Keith hernandez. Um. But and
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  Speaker 1: I remember my brother in law, the Marine, explaining to
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  Speaker 1: me years ago that bullets tumble and can do some
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  Speaker 1: really crazy things, like he's seen it happen on firing
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  Speaker 1: ranges and and pus. Also, this is a very very
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  Speaker 1: powerful bullet. Yeah. It was a six point five millimeter bullet,
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  Speaker 1: which is basically like a little um howits her shell? Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's huge and it travels very quickly. Yeah, and um,
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  Speaker 1: they have done test that, even though it seems unlikely,
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  Speaker 1: that show that it is possible that a bullet can
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  Speaker 1: change directions and do kind of crazy things once it
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  Speaker 1: starts hitting bone and other things. Yeah. So um that was,
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  Speaker 1: like you said, the second bullet most likely. Um, Within
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  Speaker 1: just a few seconds after the first shot, Kennedy is
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  Speaker 1: lying there, um motionless. Jackie's like reaching back across the
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  Speaker 1: trunk of the car. Yeah, trying to get help from
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  Speaker 1: a secret Service agent who I believe jumps into the car. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Well actually they they think that she was picked up
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  Speaker 1: part of his brain tissue. Okay, I heard that before too. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I looked into that today, but I was watching the
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  Speaker 1: repruter film and it looks it looked to me like
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  Speaker 1: she was reaching back like help. But I've heard that
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  Speaker 1: before as well. Well. Apparently she was quoted um by
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  Speaker 1: I think Connolly's wife and one other person at the
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  Speaker 1: time of saying he's dead and look, I have I
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  Speaker 1: have his brain in my hand. Um. She I read
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  Speaker 1: her testimony for the Warran Commission and she says she
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  Speaker 1: didn't even remember any of that. But whether or not
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  Speaker 1: that's true, it's awful. So when she was trying to
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  Speaker 1: hold his head together on the way to the hospital, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: So in the car behind them, uh, a Secret Service
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  Speaker 1: agent pounces on LBJ and like throws him onto the
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  Speaker 1: seat and lays on top of him. Um. I think
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  Speaker 1: his name is Rufus young Blood, the CIA or the
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  Speaker 1: Secret Service agent. The motor kid just takes off to
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  Speaker 1: the hospital park Memorial Parkland Parkland Memorial and um again,
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  Speaker 1: the the motor kid inner dally Plase at twelve thirty.
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  Speaker 1: By one pm, the President has been pronounced dead at
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  Speaker 1: Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas. It was just a few
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  Speaker 1: miles away. Um, so that was one pm. That was
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  Speaker 1: one pm. Um, I guess we should talk about the
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  Speaker 1: grassy Knoll real quick because a lot of people, um
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  Speaker 1: have said, you know, a shot have There were a
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  Speaker 1: lot of misleading and conflicting accounts, which is where a
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  Speaker 1: lot of the trouble started. I witnesses not collaborating stories. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: The acoustics at Dealey Plaza were funky because of all
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  Speaker 1: the buildings and it's three side buildings and then one
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  Speaker 1: side like Grassy Knoll. Basically yeah, so like, where did
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  Speaker 1: the shot come from? I thought it came from over here.
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  Speaker 1: From the sounds, um, it was basically pretty tough to pinpoint.
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  Speaker 1: And the Grassy Knoll there was a police officer named
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  Speaker 1: Clyde hey Good that there are pictures of him, you know,
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  Speaker 1: running towards the Grassy Knoll, and a lot of folks thought, hey,
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  Speaker 1: he's running like towards a suspect, when in fact, he
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  Speaker 1: was running toward another police officer to you know, say, hey,
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  Speaker 1: what should we do? I guess? So the I guess.
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  Speaker 1: The way it's been explained away over the years is
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  Speaker 1: the the acoustics and the fact that that cop was
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  Speaker 1: running towards the Grassy Knoll has made some people think
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  Speaker 1: that there was more than one shooter, and another shooter
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  Speaker 1: was on the grassy knoll. That's right. The official line
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  Speaker 1: is that that's not the case, though, that's right. Um,
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  Speaker 1: so one PM, the president's pronounced dead. At two thirty eight,
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  Speaker 1: UM Johnson, Jackie Kennedy, UH, Johnson's staff, pretty much everybody
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  Speaker 1: was back on Air Force one and UM they called
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  Speaker 1: Bobby Kennedy to ask what to do and to tell
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  Speaker 1: him what had happened. And Bobby Kennedy said, you need
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  Speaker 1: to swear Johnson and before you guys leave the ground.
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  Speaker 1: So they found a judge, brought her on board, and
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  Speaker 1: she swore Johnson in as president, and then they took
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  Speaker 1: off and flew back to Washington. Very famous photo, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: with him being sworn in on board Air Force one,
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  Speaker 1: right with Jackie on NASA's or Jackie Kennedy's face. Just
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  Speaker 1: like the fact that she was able to stand is
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  Speaker 1: pretty amazing. Apparently they turned her in such a way
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  Speaker 1: so that the blood stains were an apparent in the photograph. Man,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if it was Air Force one yet
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  Speaker 1: it was. UM, alright, so where are we? Uh? Four
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  Speaker 1: minutes after the shooting, Dallas police uh looked at the
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  Speaker 1: Texas School Book Depository building and said, hey, that might
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  Speaker 1: have been where this came from. It's a pretty prime
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  Speaker 1: location for a sniper. And there was an eyewitness named
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  Speaker 1: Howard Brennan who saw a figure in the window and
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  Speaker 1: gave a description which fit Lee Harvey Oswald. So this
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  Speaker 1: this one dude actually saw him in the window on
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  Speaker 1: the sixth floor. Pretty believable that you could see someone
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  Speaker 1: from that range. The guy said, I knew it was
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  Speaker 1: Oswald all along. So there was a cop that was
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  Speaker 1: in the book depository within two minutes of the shooting. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: Marian Baker was kind of took the initiative to go
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  Speaker 1: ahead and get in there. So we went in there
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  Speaker 1: and he met up with the superintendent of the building,
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  Speaker 1: a guy named Truly, and they started um walking up
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  Speaker 1: the steps and at the second floor they came upon
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  Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswald who was leaving. He was leaving. Truly
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  Speaker 1: vouched for Oswald, and Oswald was allowed to leave. And
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: the reason Truly vouched for Oswald's because just a couple
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  Speaker 1: of weeks before, about a month before, Oswald had gotten
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  Speaker 1: a job at that book depository, so he checked out
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  Speaker 1: as far as Truly was concerned. The officer who was
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  Speaker 1: with Truly said, well, okay, and they kept looking and
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  Speaker 1: a few minutes after that, lieutenant showed up and took
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  Speaker 1: over the crime scene and they started scouring the building
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  Speaker 1: and on the sixth floor they found the sniper's nest
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  Speaker 1: that's right with UM three empty cartridges and the gun
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  Speaker 1: UH telescopic rifle, UH telescopic site, and a bolt action rifle.
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  Speaker 1: And it was pretty much a no brainer at that point,
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  Speaker 1: or at least on the surface. This is where it
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  Speaker 1: came from, right, So, um, after Oswald left his uh
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  Speaker 1: left the book depository, he went to um the place
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  Speaker 1: where he was running a room, the house where he's
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  Speaker 1: running a room, and grabbed a pistol. And as he's
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: walking along and this is about the same time that
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  Speaker 1: Kennedy's being pronounced dead, he's walking along the street, he
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  Speaker 1: Um encountered a cop named J. D. Tippett, and apparently
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  Speaker 1: Oswald just opened fire on this cop, shot him four times,
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  Speaker 1: killed him instantly. Yeah. Well, he was investigating Oswald because
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: the the A p B had already come through with
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the description of Oswald, and he was like, well, this
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: guy fits that description. Let me talk to him. And
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  Speaker 1: it didn't take long though I don't think there was
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  Speaker 1: much of a discussion before Oswald shot him and killed him.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: And um, actually, when Oswald was finally apprehended, it was
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  Speaker 1: for the murder of the cop. They they didn't know
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  Speaker 1: he had anything to do with Kennedy at the time. Yeah, yeah,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: at the time. Uh, he ducked into a theater, the
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Texas Theater, into the movie War as Hell, And I
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: think he snuck in, And that's why they called the
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: cops because they're like, hey, someone stuck in the theater.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: So he would have had a bought a ticket. He
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: might not have ever been caught. You never know. You
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: know what's interesting about that, there's all these parallels between
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: the Lincoln assassination and the Kennedy assassination. Um, some are untrue,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: some are just ridiculous. But one of them was that
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: John Wilkes Booth killed Lincoln in a theater and went
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: and hit out in a warehouse, and Lee Harvey Oswald
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: killed Kennedy from where our house and went and hit
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: out in a theater where he was caught. That's a
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: pretty good one. I like that one. Um. So he
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: was apprehended in the theater and reportedly said, well, it's
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: all over now. But he also said something interesting at
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: one point to the media I'm a patsy, which has
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: fueled speculation over the years that, uh, well, we'll get
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: into the different theories before we go any further. Get this,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: the president of the United States of America has just
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  Speaker 1: been shot in front of a crowd in Dallas. That's right.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: That's huge, that's enormous. That's what's going on right now.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: And there's a man hunt for this guy who's just
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: been caught for killing a cop. Yeah, so people don't
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: know that the president's killer has just been caught as well.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: That's right. So this is a it's a pretty emotional time. Uh,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: and let's talk about Oswald himself. But first, um, let's
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: do a message break and we'll talk about Oswald when
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: we come back. A h alright, So here's a little
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: bit about Lee Harvey Oswald. He was a mixed up guy. Um,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: he was sort of an outcast, sort of didn't really
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: fit in. He was born in Um his father died
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: two months before he was born, which I think, you know,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: probably has a lot to do with emotional scarring later
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: on and maybe being a mixed up kid. Uh. He
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: was in an orphanage for a little while with an
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: older brother and half brother, but his mother was able
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: to get him back out of that orphanage uh and
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: raised them age five five when he got taken on
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: the orphanage, which was enough years to also do some
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: damage psychologically. I think that probably set the theme because
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I read a little bit about what you know, contemporary
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: reports of him growing up concluded his problem was and
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: that it was. One social worker said that he believed
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: his mother doesn't give a damn about him, uh so
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: uh and that somebody else said that they've never met
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: a kid more emotionally starved than this guy. Uh So.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I'm quite sure that being left it in an orphanage,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: even being picked back up after a while it was,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: probably did have a pretty big effect on him on
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: his development and how he viewed his mother. Well. Yeah,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: and when you look at what he did for the
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: rest of his life, um, it seems like he was
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: always looking for a new family quote unquote, um, whether
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: it was the Marxist or the Communists, or Cuba or Russia. Like,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: it seems like he never and it's kind of a
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: it's like one oh one, you know, he was looking
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: to fit in somehow somewhere with somebody, but at the
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: same time, it was always on the fringe of wherever
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: he was at. Yah, you know what I mean, Like
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: he's never happy with where he was. He wanted to
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: fit into whatever was counter what he was doing or
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: with the status quo of where he was right. So
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: at sixteen he drops out of school and tries to
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: join the Marine Corps. Um he was too young, so
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: they said come back later. He wrote the Socialist Party
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: when he was Socialist Party of America when he was seventeen,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: to say, hey, I'm weigh into Marxism and like, can
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I come join your club? I guess at the very
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: least we send me a free button. Uh. And then
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: at seventeen he reapplied to the Marine Corps and he
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: was old enough at that point. And turns out he
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: had quite an act for shooting guns. He's a sharp
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: shooter during boot camp, but then during the actual ranking
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: testing only rated as a marksman, which is still really good. Yeah,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: just below sharp shoot the sharp shooter the highest or
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: is that the dead eyes the highest level. I think
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: sharp shooters size. But at the same time, even while
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: he was a marine, a Marine marksman, he um he
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: taught himself Russian. He studied about the Soviet Union and communism.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: And this is during the Cold War. This is like
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: during the most paranoid finger pointing part of the Cold War.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: But Oswald's in the Marines, like teaching himself Russian and everything,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: see what I mean, like a confused guy. Yeah, but
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: even still like it's just it's so strange to me
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: learning about his experience that he was relatively left alone
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: while expressing pretty publicly this interest in the Soviet Union
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: and communism during the peak of the Cold War. It's
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: just I thought, if you had if you even wore
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the color red, people like communists get him. But apparently
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: you could just hide him plain sight or admire the
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Soviet Union plain sight. Well, he eventually would find himself
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: on a watch list because he went to Russia um
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: under um he obtained a passport falsely with an application
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: to a college in Switzerland and applied got to Moscow,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: applied for citizenship there and they were like yet, and
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: so he he goes, oh, yeah, if you know, I mean,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill myself. He basically did the same day
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: he was rejected by Russia. He slit his wrist and
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: the warmhearted Soviets were like, well, okay, you can stay
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: a young man. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, that's
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: what allowed him to stay. Ye, like, yeah, that's just weird. Yeah,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: is so he said, I don't want to be Um. Well,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: he he did not officially announce his citizenship in America,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: although he expressed interest in doing so. Yeah, he kind
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: of mouthed off about it, but never actually did it.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: That's right. Uh. In Russia he fell in love with
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: a lady named Marina Prusakova. And you're not going to
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: try our middle name nicola Venna nice Nikolavna. Yeah, I
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: think that's right. And um, basically he was like, you know,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: we should probably go back to the United States because
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: it turns out Russia sucks. These breadlines I weren't expecting
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: them to be so long. Yeah, it said he'd become disenchanted.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: I think that's a nice way of saying that Russia sucked. Right,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: So he says, Hey, I know a place where you're
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: gonna love. It's called Texas. Let's move back there. Uh,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: just forget the fact that you don't speak any English.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: You don't know anybody in Texas. Everybody back in America
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: thinks I'm a weirdo and I'm your husband. Uh, just
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: let's go and move to Texas. And she's like, she said,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: what did you say in Russian? He's like, nothing in Russian?
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: And so they moved to Texas and uh, she apparently
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: very quickly became just she felt isolated, she didn't have
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: any friends, and a woman named Ruth Payne UM felt
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: bad for her and took her under her wing and
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: they became kind of friends. And Ruth Payne will come
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: into play a little later on. Yeah, and this is
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: where he was finally sort of um on the radar
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: of the FBI. Yeah, when he moved back. Yeah, you
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: can't move to Russia and then come back. And they just,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: you know, don't even bother talking to you know, but
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: they did talk to him and they said, okay, well listen,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: if if the USSR gets in touch with you and
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: want you to do sp N, just let us know. Sure. Okay,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: They're like, all right, we'll have a great day. Thanks
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: for the coffee, ma'am. She's like, what did you say
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: in Russian? It's pretty remarkable. So on April tenth nine, Um,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: another interesting thing happened a few days after losing his job.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: He tried to assassinate Major General Edwin Walker. This guy
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: was a piece of work himself. Yeah, he was a
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: hardcore right wing conservative, possibly gay man. Oh I hadn't
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: heard that. Yeah. Later in life, in his seventies, he
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: was arrested twice for fondling men in public. I wonder
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: if he was the model for um, the dad in
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: American beauty. Oh, maybe I could see that then. Yeah.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I mean he never married, and they I don't think
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: they ever came right out and said he was gay.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: But he was arrested twice for fondling police officers. If
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: that's the case, email and let us know. Okay, Yeah,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: which is neither here nor there, but it's interesting. No,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: but he he was, like you said, extreme, a right
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: wing extremist in the very definition of the work. He
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: was very um, well respected, decorated military leader, like he
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: was commanding all of the troops in West Germany. At
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: one point when no he hated the Kennedys. He called
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Harry Truman and Eleanor Roosevelt pink, which means that they
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: were communists sympathizers, which is a big deal. He was
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: temporarily relieved of his post while he was investigated for that,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: and he said, you know what, I'm not even gonna
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not going back because the US has given up
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: his sovereignty to the United Nations and I can't fight
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: for it any longer. And this guy was so convinced
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: by his own convictions that he refused a military pension
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: for years afterwards because he didn't want to have anything
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: to do with him. Well, apparently he refused it, but
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: then kind of quietly tried to get it right. Well,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: and they gave it to him. Yeah, um, But then
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: he was celebrated as a great soldier later on in
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: life and after his death. So another example though of
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Oswald is sort of a confused guy, like he tries
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: to assassinate this right wing conservative general he also was
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: at a marine. He also killed Kennedy. He was just
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: sort of like it didn't seem like he knew what
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: he believed. Well, he believed that Um was the general's name.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Walker was like Hitler in the making. Yeah, basically that
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: he was an extremist who needed to be taken up,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: but he missed. Yeah, from about a hundred feet away,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: he shot into his dining room from the street where
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: he was sitting in a desk and hit the window
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: pane and uh that you know, made the bullet go
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: a different directions, so he missed. So Lee Harvey Ostal,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: it's basically doing anything he can to insinuate himself in
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: international global politics. Yeah, but he got away with it
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: like they never It was a cold case until they
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: finally caught him and put the you know, I think
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: his wife was the one who's who fingered him later on, Yeah,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: because he comes home and says, hey, we're moving to
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: New Orleans and she's like, what did you just say?
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: And so they moved to New Orleans and UM while
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: they're there, she's like, I've had enough, you're shooting at
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: um public figures. Now we're moving from Texas to New Orleans.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: I'm moving back, and she moved in with her friend
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Ruth Payne. And that surely had an effect an impact
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: on Oswald. There's no way it couldn't because he already
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: had abandonment issues from his mother. Now his wife leaves
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: him because he's just crazy, and he's like, well, you
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: know what, fine, I'm gonna stay here and I'm going
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: to start a chapter of a pro Cuba pro castro
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: sympathizer club and I'm gonna be the one and only member,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: but I'm gonna be a loudmouth member. I think you
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: wanted more than one member. But it was another example
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: of like nobody was interested in this guy. Nobody. Russia
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: didn't want him, No one joined his club, his wife
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: left him, Cuba didn't want him. No. He went down
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: to Mexico and visited the Cuban and Russian embassies, trying
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: to basically get in them with them, and they're are like,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: it's okay, thanks man. Yeah, like nobody was. I think
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: the words strictly used was no one was ever very
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: impressed with Oswald. They were unimpressed Soviet and Cuban officials.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, if this guy was a Patsy, he was
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: the perfect Patsy. Oh yeah, but you can also take
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: all of this evidence and say, well, this is what
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: made him do this. Yeah, if he was a Patsy,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: you imagine how easy it would have been for like
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: one of the theories is the mafia, for them to
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: put their arm around and be like, you're you're a
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: pretty great guy, right, you know what you should do?
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: You should kill the president? Yeah? Yeah, he would have
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: been very easy to manipulate, I imagine because he's also
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: just twenty four. It when the kid, which is crazy,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: um so he uh he left New Orleans, went back
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: to Dallas, got a job, and about a month later
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: at the school book depository, Uh shot and killed John F. Kennedy. Yes,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: so um Oswald's done is shooting He's called. They started
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: to investigate his background, and Lynnon Johnson ordered a um
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: an investigation of full investigation into the Kennedy assassination, what happened,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: what lessons learned, all that stuff, And this commission, led
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: by Chief Justice Earl Warren UH was called the Warrant Commission,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: and the report they compiled several hundred page reports called
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: the Warrant Report. And in addition to the several hundred
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: page report, they also released twenty six volumes of transcripts
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: of the hearings that they conducted. So it's this exhaustive
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: investigation that was very transparent. Supposedly, there's so many documents
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: that to try to censor them, really censor them, it
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: would be virtually impossible. So a lot of people point
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: to the very fact that the Warrant Report is so
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: voluminous that it is like in fact correct, and it's
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: not part of a larger cover up at least. Yeah,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: and acsuently the article did you read the one in
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: the New York Times that some people think they're still
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: documents the CIA won't release. Well, they won't. Well, but
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the one anti conspiracy guy that they interviewed said, people
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: that I don't know how the CIA works that believe
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: this stuff. He went, there would be no documents period.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: They wouldn't be hiding things, they wouldn't exist Operation killed
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: President Kennedy. Yeah, I mean he's sort of like a
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: little pad on the head, like you think there are documents,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: you sweet little conspiracy theorists. Um, alright, So the warrant
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Commission comes out and immediately conspiracy theorists start to suggest
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: different things, like one theory was that it was an
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: outside job by the KGB and or Cuba. Right, we
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: should say, the warrant Commission concluded that Lee Harvey Oswell
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: killed President Kennedy on his own volution, by himself, um,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: without acting at the behester the benefit of anybody else. Yeah,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: just a lone, singular, crazed gunman. So the conspiracy theories
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: are everybody else saying no, that's not the case, and
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: we gave the example of the Grassy Knoll, the acoustics
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: and daily plause of the fact that a cop was
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: running towards the Grassy Knoll, and conflicting eyewitness accounts, like
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: from the literal beginning of this event. In history, there
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: have been all sorts of hey, that people have been
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: able to make conspiracy theories out of, Like there's been
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: no shortage of all sorts of different weird things that
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: you can start to piece together with other things and
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: come up with these very interesting, some um sound conspiracy theories,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: but that when you really get down to them, they're
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: not supported by evidence exactly. I'm glad you said that. Uh.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: The KGB or Cuba theory that maybe their governments were
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: acting out and trying to kill Kennedy had some legs
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: because the Bay of Pigs had just happened. They were
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: certainly no friends of Kennedy at the height of the
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Cold War. There was definitely a motive there, but um,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: there was no evidence to tie Oswald in any substantive
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: way to either of these countries. No, they looked at
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: his finances over they went back a year and a
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: half and looked at his finances to see if there
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: were any weird payments or whatever, and apparently the only
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: amount total that they could have they couldn't account for
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: came to like a hundred and sixty dollars could have
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: been cash and diamonds, though I guess it could have
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: been so how they liked the deal. One of the
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: other popular theories I mentioned was the mob and that
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Jack Ruby was working with the mob, and the second
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Oswald said I'm a patsy. They're like, we need to
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: go take care of this, like right now. Yeah, we
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: haven't mentioned Jack Ruby. Two days after Um, Kennedy was killed, Um,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: they were transporting Lee Harvey Oswald and a guy named
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Jack Ruby, who was a Dallas nightclub owner, came up
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: and shot Lee Harvey Oswald in the chest and killed him.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswald actually died in Parkland Memorial, the same
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: hospital that Kennedy had two days before. Yeah, very famous
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: photo which has since been made into very funny photo.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Have you seen the band one? No, you never saw that.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: It was big years ago. It was, you know, the
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: photo of Ruby killing Kennedy, and someone went in and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: photoshopped and in musical instruments because they're all like have different,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: you know, pained expressions. And Jack Ruby's at the keys
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and I think Lee Harvey Oswald has a guitar and
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: it looks like it's pretty funny. Check it out. How
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: about another moment here for a message break touch All right,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: let's get back to it. So we were talking about
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the mafia. Um, because Jack Ruby owned a nightclub, Everybody's
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: just like, well, he's went down with the mob. What's more,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswald probably was acting on behalf of the
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: mob because he had an uncle in New Orleans who
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: was mafia connected. Mobbed up, as they say, Is that
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: what they say? Yeah? But um, apparently there's no evidence
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: that Oswald and his uncle communicated at all, and the
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: these connections are fairly h tenuous at best. Jack Ruby
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: himself said that the reason he did it was because
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: he wanted to spare Jacqueline and Caroline the heartbreak of
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: having to come back to Dallas to testify against Lee
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Harvey Oswald. That's what he officially said. And apparently there's
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: a transcript of and it is just hearsay, but it's
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: um Oswald talking with his lawyer saying that, Um, he's
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: saying like this whole charade we're doing that. He that
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: he shot Oswald while he was blacked out, and he
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: he can't be held responsible. That it's all just it's
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: just just stupid, and they should go with the truth that,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: you know, he did this because he wanted to spare Jackie. Interesting,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: that's supposedly it. But then apparently also it's supposedly he
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: said that that was a charade as well, So who knows. Well.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Another theory is that it was the CIA and it
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: was an inside job. Kennedy had criticized their practices and
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: um was, you know, trying to scale down Vietnam, and
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: those weren't very popular things to do at the time
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: if you were in the government. And so a lot
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: of people say, you know what, Lennon Johnson might have
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: orchestrated this whole thing, and it was an inside job
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: with the CIA. They're like, he barely ever wore pants,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: for God's sake. Uh. I don't know if this remained
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: true to her death, but both Bobby Kennedy and Jackie
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Kennedy at one point I believe that quote he was
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: felled by domestic opponents. Um. And of course Bobby died
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: not too long after five years but um, I don't
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: know if Jackie held that opinion her entire life. I'm
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: not sure about that. I'm curious, but it seems to
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: ring a bell that like she was suspicious of LBJ. Yeah. Um,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I know. Since two thousand, there have been five legit
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: tenured historians that IT published studies, and four or the
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: five concluded that there was probably some larger conspiracy at work,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: but none of them agreed on what it was, so
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: it's it's hard to get a consensus. So ultimately, what
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: the what it came down to the official line was
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: that there were Um, there was a rifle that had
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Oswald's fingerprints on it that was found at the crime scene,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: that there is a picture in existence that of Oswald
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: holding that exact same rifle before the crime was committed. Um,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: he had already tried to kill a general. Yeah. And
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: the fact that he said well it's all over now
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: when he was apprehended. You take all this together, everybody
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: who a lot of people think it was Oswald. That's
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: the official line, right, Yeah, And the Suppruter film has
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: been used to that. You know, hey, how can you
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: shoot someone from this direction? And they had to go
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: that direction? Um, there were other films of the incident,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: but the Supruter is the most complete. I did look
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: at some of the others. I've never seen any of
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: those before. It's weird to see it from different angles, yeah,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: if you're used to seeing just the Brooder film. UM. So,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: the Warrant Commission did not put this issue to bed
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: at all, even back then. Uh. The there was another
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: commission that took place in nineteen seventy six, the House
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Select Committee on Assassinations, and they investigated both JFK and
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Martin Luther King's assassinations. And this is a group of
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: UM House representatives who, you know, it's true, are known
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: for being the rabble rousers of the government, that brands
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: of government. UM. But they basically investigated this, carried out
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: a full investigation and found that, you know what, we
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: actually think that JFK did die as a result of
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: a conspiracy. We don't think it was the mob, we
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: don't think it was the c i A, we don't
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: think it was the FBI, and we don't think it
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: was the Cubans. But we do believe that it was
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: a conspiracy and that um Lee Harvey Oswald did not
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: act alone. This is the House of Representatives saying that, yeah,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: well they initially said that there were four shots, but
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: they were actually wrong. And then later we can did
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: that um with acoustic evidence and said, you know what,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: we were wrong on that and they did never find
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: any like hard evidence. But was there did they remain
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: true to that statement? Yeah, that was never their final report.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Interesting yeah, um, yeah, that it was part of a conspiracy.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: So that definitely didn't quell any No. And as a
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: matter of fact, it's like, oh, well, the House of
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Representatives just said Kennedy was killed as part of it
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: a conspiracy, like if if it was dying down before
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: it flared right back up. And there was another one
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: almost at the same time, a Rockefeller Commission by Vice
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: President Nelson Rockefeller. And a lot of people think that
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: the Rockefeller Commission was basically just like a fact finding
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: committee that was there to basically cover up and um
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: derail any other investigations. Really yeah, kind of like we
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: got this, we got this. You know. It didn't work though,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: because of the House Select Committee. Well, they invalidated one
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: of our favorite little parts of the theory, the three
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: tramps theory. Um. At the time, there were these three
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: vagrants that were detained by police that had been traveling
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: by boxcars supposedly, and um, that's how they travel often,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: that is how they travel. And two of the men
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: for a while, we're believed to have been E. Howard
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Hunt and Frank Sturgis, who were the dudes who broke
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: into Watergate, which would be a nice little coincidence. Yeah.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Well there's a whole side by side photographic comparison of
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: the two. I mean, it looks a lot like them.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Well it does. Um, the FBI got experts to do
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: the same thing though that said, no, that that's not them. Uh.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: And the third guy, And if you're a conspiracy theorists,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, okay, well thanks, FBI appreciate that. I
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: believe you. Um. The third guy was rumored to be
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: what he Harrelson's dad, Charles Harrison. He was a hit
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: man and he they were estranged. By the way, what
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: he Harrelson is not like he doesn't talk about this much.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: It's not one of his favorite topics. Sorry, we got
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: to talk about it. But um, he he killed a
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: federal judge and then when he was caught in a
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: standoff in nineteen eighty high on cocaine. He said I
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: killed Kennedy too, and then later on recanted that and said,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I just said that because I was high on cocaine. Yeah,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: and I was trying to elongate my life. And like
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: they I don't think they would have killed me if
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: they if I had information. That's what he said in
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: a in an interview from prison. But conspiracy theorists latched
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: onto this and said he's the third tramp. He was
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: the youngest one of the three. And the pictures kind
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: of look alike, you know it to Harrison's dad was
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: one of a trio of men who killed JFK. Well,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: all of this could have been put to bed if
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: the dudes look nothing like the other guys, but they
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: all kind of did. So another thing to add field
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: to the fire for sure. And we should say also,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: there's um even more like you were saying, the CIA
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: still still will not declassify documents that they have about
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: the JFK assassination. That's not helping things. Something did come
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: to light though, from UM investigations into the CIA. The
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: guy named George Joannity's he Um was a CIA agent
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: who was basically in charge of a group of anti
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Cuban Student Dissidents right or anti Castro Cuban student dissidents,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: and he was running their operation in Miami and New Orleans.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: They actually beat up Lee Harvey Oswald while he was
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: in New Orleans handing out pamphlets that were pro Cuban
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and pro Castro um like a few months before the assassination.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: So George Joannity's ran that operation and then later on
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: in when the House elect Committee was investigating it again,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: he was the liaison for the CIA, but no one
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: told the How Select Committee the involvement he'd had before. Interesting, well, uh,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: with Wood, he's dad. He actually had a co conspiracor
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: that said, you know what, He's confessed this before to
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: me and even drew maps about where he was hiding
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: the day it happened. Um. But in arrest records were
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: released and identified the three tramps as uh Gus Abrams,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Harold Doyle, and John Gedney. It was all sound like
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: suspicious names and they I think they interviewed a couple
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: of these guys later in life and they were like, yeah,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: we were the guys, and we were just buckscar dudes,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: even though we had suits on and we're clean shaven
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: and oh well, everybody back then was like, even if
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: you were like just the total complete hobo, you still
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: wore a suit in Fedora usually. Uh. So again people
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: point to that and say, these clearly weren't you know,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: these guys were paid or you know. And then a
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: lot of other pinky things happen. People disappeared, witnesses disappeared. Um,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: it's it's never going to die. I don't think I
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: don't think anyone will ever let this go. No, but
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: that's that's what makes a great conspiracy theory, right. There's
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: just too many facts outstanding that just can't be put
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: to bed. So you got anything else, I got nothing else.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about this, or if
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: this piqued your interest, you should definitely check out our
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: buddies over at Stuff. They don't want you to know.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: They have a huge, awesome body of work, um that
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: they've put together over the years and continue to do so.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Uh And you can also read this article on how
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: stuff works dot com by typing JFK into the search
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: bar and see what comes up. And since I said
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: search part, it means it's time for a listener mail.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this Chinese zombies from Sam LaRussa. Hey, guys,
• 41:59
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• 42:08
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• 42:25
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• 42:37
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• 42:40
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• 42:43
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• 43:32
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  Speaker 1: do your job. But not really though, because he could
• 43:42
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• 43:52
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• 43:57
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  Speaker 1: some remote outposts of the world or in some bustling cosmopolis.
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• 44:10
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• 44:12
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• 44:17
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