Latest / Take1.5 Podcast: Stories from the Messy In-between / The 3:30 AM Reality of a Working Mom: Career, Kids & Cost of Balance 워킹맘의 하루는 새벽 3:30에 시작된다

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The 3:30 AM Reality of a Working Mom: Career, Kids & Cost of Balance 워킹맘의 하루는 새벽 3:30에 시작된다 · Take1.5 Podcast: Stories from the Messy In-between

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I was a perfectionist. I had impostor syndrome, but I
0:03
really wanted to sound like an American, right?
0:06
Like without any accent or no grammatical errors.
0:09
And I wanted to sound perfect, but I it's not possible.
0:13
I think I could have just accepted the reality and start
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loving myself. It would have been much easier
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if I just dropped it right? Of my ego and my desire to be
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perfect. Back then I just couldn't do
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that and I really struggled a lot.
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Welcome Evelyn Moon. Evelyn Moon Carlos Hanim.
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She is a founder and principal attorney at Evelyn Moon Law,
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specialized in immigration, helping individuals, corporate
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and investors worldwide. Thank you for being here.
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It's my pleasure, it's my honor. So for I know it's very heavily
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Asian American population, right?
0:56
Yes, the high school that I went to, there were a lot of Asian,
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probably more than 60 percent 6070.
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And within that Asian student population I think 70% were
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Korean. I actually started hanging out
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with like Korean friends who also integrated or moved from
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Korea and we watched Korean drama.
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We spoke in Korean language. So it actually took me a while
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to actually Start learning how to speak English and socialize
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with other non Korean friends. Yeah.
1:30
Oh yeah. So within our high school, there
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were two very big trees in the main campus, right?
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And the one big tree was called ETA one tree, meaning like
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second generation tree. And then the other tree was
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called a FoB tree. Oh my God.
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So we weren't allowed to socialize and hang out in front
1:53
of the ETA one tree. We could only hang out in front
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of the FoB tree. Yeah.
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So it was kind of very strange cultural shock to me.
2:03
To me it was the cultural shock, right.
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So I wasn't even allowed to hang out.
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Not allowed. But like it was really hard to
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make, you know, non fobby friends as a as a super fobby
2:18
person, right. So I was often called a fob,
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right. Like when I was walking by, you
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know, the second generation kids would just make fun of, you
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know, people who just, you know, came to the state.
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So it wasn't really nice and pleasant experience, right?
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It was like my very first experience feeling that I'm not
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accepted, right? Like I'm not welcomed in in a
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place by same Korean people, you know what I mean?
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Many of my guests share that experience, actually.
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Yeah, So when I saw your podcast title 1.5, right?
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I think we have our own special bonding or like connection that
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we can feel, right, because of this unique experience that we
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go through. And we're not like 100% Korean
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because we we sort of adjusted, you know, and to this culture,
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right? And but then we're not 100%
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Americanized, right? Because we the other half of us
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is still like very Korean minded.
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So it's like half and half. I feel like I'm in between.
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You know exactly 1.5, right? So you went to the law school in
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LA as. Well, I went to Chapman Law
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School in Orange, so after graduating from UCLA, I'm to
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Chapman. There's a private law school
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very close to my house. Yeah, there was another crazy
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cultural shock because I was the only Korean in my class and then
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there were only like 3 Asian students, Asian American
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students in my class. So you know how UCLA is like
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Asian school going from high school, right, where 70% of
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Asian out of which 70% was like Korean to UCLA to Chapman Law
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school was a really big change in cultural shock for me.
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Yeah. How was that like moving so I
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California, I mean the UCLA to Chapman?
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I think that's when I realized this is the real America, you
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know? Like, I think I was in a
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comforting zone where, you know, I get to connect and hang out
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with my other fellow Korean friends and Asian American
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friends, Right. But when I went to Chapman, I,
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for the very first time, I felt like I wasn't part of the group,
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you know what I mean? I felt like I was different.
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Yeah. You know, again.
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Yeah. Because back then, in high
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school, it was between my other fellow Korean American friends
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were born here, second generation, right?
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But this time, for the very first time, it was actually me
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versus American born Caucasian friends whom I didn't really get
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a chance to socialize and hang out with.
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Nothing bad about it, right? Nothing bad.
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I'm not saying it's bad or anything, but it was my very
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first time feeling a little isolated.
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Yeah, and different. Yeah, did.
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You feel like you had to learn the culture one more time, Like
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once again. Yes, I'm so glad you asked.
5:32
Yes, I feel like I'm learning another culture one more time.
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Yeah, it was that big of a difference.
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I mean, yeah, I could relate because when I was growing up,
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like I said, you know, most of my friends were Koreans, like,
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you know, the close ones I'm talking about.
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And everything was Korean, everything, you know, I mean, we
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spoke like Kunglish, but still very Korean, right.
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But when I started working, it was like a whole new world.
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It's like, I don't, I don't know anything about America.
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I felt like. Oh, yes, that's how I felt like,
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oh, where where was I, Right. I thought I was living in, in
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America, but no, I wasn't. I was living in that little,
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little. I felt like I was in the
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invisible circle of, I don't know, little little corner.
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Yeah. So how do you how did you
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overcome that? I mean, I had no choice and I
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just had to face it, right? Because every day there's a
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there's something called Socratic method in law school
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where professor would just call on your name and just give you
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all of these questions in front of everybody, almost like a mock
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trial. And you have to be ready for
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that, right? But I'm sure, you know, I was
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still learning how to speak English and express myself in
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English. And at that time, I was still
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thinking everything in my head in Korean 1st and then translate
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and then spit out in words, right.
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So for me to handle that spontaneous instant conversation
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with the professor discussing and talking about the case of,
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you know, a legal case case scenario, and for me to just
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respond, not only respond but share my ideas and my opinion
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was very challenging. It was very challenging and
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difficult and very nerve wracking.
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Yeah. So for the yeah, so 343 years of
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law school, I, I have to honestly tell you, like I did
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not enjoy at all. A lot of people, you know, enjoy
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law school, especially after first year.
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Everything is easier and you make friends, right?
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And then you socialize. But I really did not enjoy three
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years of my life in law school. Were you under a constant
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stress? Yes, I was under constant
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stress, I couldn't sleep. But at that time, I think I was
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a perfectionist. At the same time, I had impostor
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syndrome, right? Just a typical Asian American
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minority female student mindset, right?
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So I really wanted to sound like an American, right?
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Like without any accent or no grammatical errors.
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And I wanted to sound perfect, but I it's not possible, right?
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And it is something that I couldn't control.
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And yet my mind is like there, right?
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I want to be that person. But reality is you can't, you
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just cannot be, right? So I think I could have just
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accepted the reality and start loving myself, right?
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Just as if without, you know, putting that mindset of, Oh my
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gosh, I want to look perfect. I want to, you know, sound like
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that. I want to, you know, talk about
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this case scenario like naturally and very natural
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English, like you really want to have that, you know, perfect,
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perfect yourself features, right?
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But I wish I just, it would have been much easier if I just
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dropped it right of my ego and my desire to be perfect.
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But I couldn't do that. So back then I just couldn't do
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that. And I really struggled a lot.
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Hindsight is always 2020, right? They say, yeah, I, I I shared
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the same sentiment with you. Yeah, we try so hard, right?
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I think I spoke with another guest this morning, too.
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That feeling of not enough not being enough is just haunting
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situation I think, especially for 1.5 generation because like
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you don't feel like you're not enough in either of the
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situations. Yeah, yeah.
9:51
So tell me more about your work. So I mostly mainly work with
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U.S. company either American companies or Korean like big
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Korean companies who have US branch office or subsidiary
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affiliate office in the US. Then I help the US companies
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hire foreign talents through the work visa process.
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Also, I work with individual clients, change their status
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from student visa status to work visa status, and eventually a
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lot of people want to stay here. So green card sponsorship,
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right? So I can walk them through the
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process. I also work with investor,
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individual investor, client, individual investor, make an
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investment into the US project that must create 1010 U.S. jobs.
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Then there's a way that you can obtain green cards.
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So the main purpose of this ED-5 program is to boost the US
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economy by creating U.S. jobs through foreign investment,
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right? So that's actually one of my
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specialties. I've been doing that for more
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than, oh God, so many years, more than 10 years.
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This sounds like a intense workload.
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Yes, because of many different types of cases.
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Yeah, I I have to switch my gears in my brain like back and
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forth depending on the visa category.
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How do you manage as a working mom?
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Again, chaotic. Again, very chaotic, but I go to
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I try to go to sleep really early like at around like 9/30,
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10:00 PM with my kid and then I wake up at 3:00 AM and then I
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start working 3:00 AM. But I still I still get to sleep
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6 hours a day. So 9:00 to 3:00 or 3:30.
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OK, so I start working from 3:00 to 3:00 AM until my kids wake
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up, my husband and kids wake up and that's when I, you know,
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start packing lunch and get ready for them to go to school.
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Then I come to my office. I try to come to my office at
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9:00 AM every day and then I do my work and at around, depending
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on whether my son is in summer camp or during the regular
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school year, I end my work at around like 430, sometimes 5:00
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PM. So then I try to focus, you
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know, on spending time with my 2 little ones between after my
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work and until, you know, dinner time and until they go to sleep.
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That's like 1 resolution that I think to make sure that I am a
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present mom, right? I'm not a mom who's just all
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over the place, always on conference call and like not
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even there attending meetings. So I try not to do any meetings
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or events in the evening. So I try to find all the
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networking events that are held during the lunchtime.
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I mean, yeah, that sounds great, but I know how hard that is to
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manage your time and your career.
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And it's such a demanding one, too, you know.
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Yeah. So wow, good for you because.
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It's constantly changing right in the question.
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So it is demanding and sometimes, like very mentally
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draining. But I just love what I do
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because I get to help, you know, my client, either whether that's
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to achieve the American dream, right, individually, or I get to
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help the US companies hire and work with foreign talents on
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their very critical project that can also create new jobs, right?
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So directly or indirectly, I get to help individuals or
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companies, right? So I think it's really rewarding
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practice area within legal field.
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Is that one of your life goals, to make an impact or to serve?
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Oh I love your questions. Oh my gosh man, I all of your
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questions are so beautifully worth it so.
14:01
Thank you. And that's such a great
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question. So before that incident, you
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know, even after car accident, it was all about me, right?
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I want to go to the law school, I want to become an attorney and
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I want to do this on that. So it was all about me and me,
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right? I had a goal, right?
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I had a vision and I had objective and I wanted to be
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successful, right? But I never thought about what
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is my wife. It was all about success that
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was already defined by society when I was in law school and
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even after I became an attorney. So I really worked hard, like 90
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to 100 hours per week. I really worked hard and became
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a partner and the managing partner.
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So I made my way up and I actually made it.
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But it, it wasn't until I faced I encountered a situation where
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I was completely vulnerable, like physically and mentally.
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When I went to that stage of my life where I was bedridden and
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my baby was sick, right? And I had to close my firm, I
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had my vision and goal, right. I want to be a successful firm
15:15
owner and, you know, I want to start hiring more people and I
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want to throw my firm and I want to be that successful
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entrepreneurial, you know, woman attorney you, you, you have that
15:26
vision, right? But it was all about me, me, me,
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me, me, myself and I and success was all about like money and
15:37
buying a better house and car and expensive stuff, right?
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But I never thought about, but why?
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What's after that? What's after?
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What do you want to do after you achieve all that, right?
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And I realized that, right? Like I never thought about what
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is my, why, what's my mission? What's my actual goal that I
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want to do in my life? And that's what I seriously
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thought about #1 without health, right?
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Without health, you're nothing and you're no one.
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You can't do anything, right? So health is #1 should be the
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number one priority. And then what do I want to do?
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So I started focusing on what I like doing and what I enjoy
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doing. And then I started thinking, how
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can I help other people using my talent and skills that I just
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naturally have? So I started thinking about that
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very seriously. And I realized that I really
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enjoy connecting people just like you do.
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You know, you connect with so many other exceptional and great
16:46
speakers and invite them to your podcast and you know, you make
16:50
this community, right? Yes.
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So I love doing that too. And I realized that there's so
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many other vulnerable minority attorneys, whether that's female
16:59
or male doesn't matter, right, Who are struggling, right?
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Because of the glass ceiling, because of their background, you
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know, cultural pressure and pressure to be always perfect,
17:10
good. And become a doctor as a lawyer.
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That's it, right? You, you only have two options
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kind of mentality, right? I really wanted to create a
17:20
space, right, where we can connect among ourselves and we
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can learn from each other and we can support one another, right?
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So that we can sort of break that.
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I don't wanna say barrier, but whatever that is created because
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of our generational cultural, you know what I'm saying?
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Yeah. So that we can all have our own
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vision, our own dream, our own life goals and purpose.
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Because if you just chase after whatever the success defined by
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society, which is getting a plus, going to law school or
17:59
medical school and become that top person in your field without
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having your own vision and like dream and purpose, you're going
18:08
to be burned out eventually. And you're going to have very
18:13
dry life where you don't feel that fulfillment, right?
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And our real life, no joy. Exactly.
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The joy is a keyword, but when you do, when you live your life
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doing something that you that makes you feel like so joy,
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joyful and makes your heart drop almost right, then your life
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just suddenly becomes so fulfilling and so beautiful,
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right? That's really wonderful, how
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beautifully you put that together.
18:42
Oh, thank you. So do you, Do you have some sort
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of a community outside of your law practice or is that through
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your law practice that you are mentoring and connecting these
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people? So I just, I started to gather
18:59
other minority female attorneys up in my area, Orange County.
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And then now we have 60 plus people.
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So I just randomly started creating this cacao group and
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then I just started like gathering with my one other
19:13
fellow attorney and then we have 60 plus and I we started
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organize organizing like lunch and learn where we invite like
19:23
very successful female minority attorney in our area so they can
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share work like balance their marriage life and you know how
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they manage their crazy working mom life to become that
19:39
successful, right? And we just ask them, like, tips
19:42
for tips and advice, right? And then we do Galantine events
19:47
like holiday party, summer social.
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So by doing that, I realize how happy and joyful I, I am when I
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connect with others and when I help other people connect with,
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you know, different professionals whom they can
20:04
learn from and whatever. Yeah.
20:06
It's been very rewarding. Yeah.
20:07
I mean, because we all need a community, right?
20:09
We all need people around us. So yeah, what do you see as like
20:16
a common thread of challenges that minority women lawyers go
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through? I mean, I don't want to
20:28
generalize it, but a lot of them, including myself, are
20:32
professionals with imposter syndrome who don't know how to
20:38
say no. So they end up killing
20:40
themselves to, like, be that best version of themselves
20:45
without having any rest, right? Without taking any break.
20:49
Because we were raised by our parents to be that way, right?
20:53
And we never objected and we never, you know, sort of created
20:58
any problem real well, right? So we were always that A+, you
21:02
know, textbook type of person, right?
21:05
Textbook type of a girl who went to school with good grade and
21:09
then good university and law school and attorney became that
21:13
proud daughter, you know, of our parent.
21:16
And then when you're going to the workforce, right, when you
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work with, you know, your supervisor and partner
21:22
attorneys, a lot of them can be male, right?
21:28
They just say, yes, That was me actually, I was, I was always
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like that too. I would always say yes, never
21:36
said no, always violent to work extra hours on weekends and
21:41
holidays, right? Literally like killing myself to
21:46
to always prove myself right and constantly seeking validation
21:51
not from within me myself, but from others.
21:56
You know why? Because we never got that
21:59
validation from our parents or, you know, our surroundings.
22:03
And I think that's a very universal, very common thing
22:11
that I feel. But there's always time when you
22:15
feel like you're hitting the wall, right?
22:18
That can be a very traumatic experience or unexpected
22:22
situation. Like I went through my baby
22:24
sickness and myself issues or unexpected challenges that you
22:30
have in the work workplace, right?
22:32
Whether that's relationship challenge, challenges related to
22:35
relationship or your own limit feelings of limit feelings like
22:40
you're limited in terms of growth, whatever that is when
22:44
you're faced with situation where you cannot control
22:47
anymore, right? Because all this time as a
22:50
student and then, you know, going through school, you can
22:55
sort of control your life and yourself, right?
22:58
By working extra hard. Yeah.
23:00
But in when you're out here in in the workforce, you can
23:04
there's so many situations that you cannot control, right?
23:07
Especially after becoming a mom or working with third parties,
23:11
right? Then we struggle and we break
23:15
down. But then you know what the worst
23:19
part is? I'm sure you can relate.
23:20
What? They're afraid of sticking up
23:24
and sticking up. They're afraid of sticking help.
23:27
Why getting therapist? You know, talking to a
23:30
psychologist is not a good thing in our society.
23:34
You're not supposed to talk to a therapist.
23:36
You're not supposed to take any medications, right?
23:39
So they never seek help. Meaning deep inside, it's like
23:45
gradually built up and accumulated, right?
23:47
And then one day you'd slow. Yeah.
23:50
When you cannot handle it anymore.
23:52
So I've seen a lot of people who just completely leave the legal
23:56
space after getting burnt out and like when they cannot handle
24:01
it anymore. So my mission is to mentor a lot
24:05
of law students and younger attorneys who are just getting
24:09
into the legal field as a minority woman attorney.
24:14
I really want to mentor as many of them as possible so that when
24:19
they feel, when they feel a wall, right, when they feel like
24:22
they're faced with crazy challenges, they have that room
24:28
or at least like they know that there's a support, you know,
24:31
there's support that they can always rely on and lean on to,
24:35
right so. How true that is.
24:38
I mean, you, everything that you mentioned, we see across the
24:41
board of especially Asian Americans, especially us girls,
24:47
right? Because we grow up hearing
24:50
obviously you have to be good, you have to do well, you have to
24:53
be nice, you have to be kind, all these things.
24:56
Well, I mean, there's no reason to speak up because no one's
25:00
listening and you're always shut down by, in our cultural
25:04
experience anyway. But and, and then, you know, we
25:09
grow up and you hit a wall and you just go on until you break
25:13
down completely. Completely.
25:15
Yeah. And then there's like, no, no
25:18
point of return for many people because we don't deal with it,
25:24
you know, before we get there. So true.
25:27
And you know, the thing about what you're doing is so
25:30
wonderful because a lot of people get to that point because
25:33
we feel alone, right? We're the only ones no one
25:36
understands. But as you're mentoring the
25:39
younger attorneys, you know, for them to really even know that
25:45
there is a community surrounding them with they, they have a
25:49
place to go to, they could talk to someone who will understand
25:53
exactly what they're going through.
25:55
So that's really wonderful. That's what I needed for most.
25:58
Yeah, exactly what you said. That's what I need for most.
26:01
So that's when I started, like, gathering minority female
26:05
attorneys in my area. Yeah.
26:07
And now we have 60 plus looking back, all this car accident and
26:13
my, you know, work situation and then my course delivery
26:18
complications and my baby sickness, I realized everything,
26:24
like, dots are connected, right? I can connect the dots and
26:27
without those incidents, I can never, it can never be the same.
26:33
Like I, I would never be the person who I am today and I
26:36
never would have had this life purpose and vision, right?
26:40
So maybe we go through this crazy life, storms and
26:44
challenges for a reason, right? And no accident, incident or a
26:52
waste of time or, you know, I I realized everything has meaning
26:58
and reason and purpose. Yeah.
27:01
Yeah. Or can I ask you something?
27:03
Yeah, of course. Like what made you start this
27:06
podcast and what what's your purpose That's?
27:11
My purpose, yeah. So I grew up obviously as 1.5
27:16
generation in this country, experiencing all the things that
27:20
we, you and I talked about in the beginning, right, That are
27:23
not belonging, not feeling not enough and not just welcomed in
27:28
this country, just not feeling comfortable in my own skin type
27:32
of thing and trying to figure out who I am through all these
27:36
experiences, right. And it was a very tough time for
27:41
me, like over the years and I really wanted to, I've always
27:46
had heart for the younger folks who are going through these
27:50
things. So I've been, I started
27:53
counseling, I worked as a counselor and I, I do public
27:56
speaking and all these things. But then of course, I got very
28:02
sick. I had breast cancer 10 years
28:05
ago. And it really, you know, I, you
28:08
know, like you said, I planned out all these things in in
28:11
sequence, but then everything just out working out in my own,
28:17
my, as my plan, right. So I had a lot of time to think
28:24
about. OK, what, what is it that I want
28:28
to do? How do I want to be remembered?
28:32
Yeah, when I leave, right. By my children, my family, my
28:36
friends and my community. And I realized that I have hard
28:44
to give skills to speak and to connect and to really like,
28:52
comfort people. I could create the space where
28:56
people could come together and share their story.
28:59
Because we all have a story to tell.
29:01
We all have what to be heard, right?
29:04
And we all want to encourage one another through our stories.
29:08
So I wanted to make this space virtual space for people to come
29:12
and share that the end goal is to be encouraged and feel
29:18
there's a community, there's people who understand, went
29:20
through the same experiences. You're not alone.
29:23
We could do this and it gets better.
29:26
So those those are the some purposes that I have for this
29:31
podcast. That's so beautiful and
29:34
inspiring and thank you for creating this community for all
29:38
of us. And I've been listening to your
29:40
podcast like from the beginning and it's my great honor to be
29:45
invited. And also I think it's such an
29:48
amazing thing that you you're doing for the community because
29:54
just like you mentioned, everybody wants to be heard,
29:56
right? And we really want to share our
30:00
story with one another. And I think at 1.5 generation
30:05
with immigrant background, it is even more special, right, to be
30:09
able to stick out and share our story so that we can learn from
30:13
each other, we can grow together in the community.
30:17
So I think it's a really beautiful mission that you have.
30:21
Thank you. You know, it's funny because
30:23
you, you, I think we learn these things as we age.
30:28
I think when we're younger, it's hard to grasp that concept of
30:32
like, community. OK, what about like?
30:34
I totally. Agree.
30:35
Yeah, right. And yes, I think that's part of
30:37
the grace of getting older is that, yeah, you are able to look
30:42
around. Yes, yeah.
30:44
And also it's a really, I'm so glad you mentioned that because
30:49
when I was younger, even the concept of helping other was to
30:57
make myself look good, right? Like it was all about me, me,
31:03
me, me, me even like to do the community service or right, like
31:07
to help other people. The main point was to make
31:11
myself look good and get validated and get praised,
31:16
right? But I think you really start to
31:19
feel like very fulfilled, like 100% fulfilled and very happy
31:24
and excited and joyful when you truly want to help others
31:30
without expecting anything in return.
31:34
That moment can only happen when you sort of surrender yourself,
31:40
your ego, your desire, your greed and everything and decide
31:45
to take the courage to start defining your own success.
31:51
I like my age, you know, I like, I like getting old because all
31:59
these experiences to me help me find my real life purpose and
32:08
and be able to truly desire and want to help other people, right
32:14
using my talent and my skill. It's real amazing.
32:17
And that feeling of fulfillment is something that I can never
32:20
buy with money. Yeah.
32:22
Yeah. You know what I mean?
32:23
Yeah. So I'm really blessed.
32:25
I feel so blessed and thankful in that time.
32:28
Yeah, yes, we like our older selves.
32:32
Yeah, that's a good thing. I think that's a blessing in
32:36
itself that we actually grow to like ourselves more and more.
32:40
You know, I like what I like what I see.
32:43
Yeah. That's wonderful.
32:46
That's great. Yeah.
32:47
We're so blessed. Yeah, except for the wrinkle.
32:53
We won't look at that. Yeah, we we can get some help,
32:58
yeah. Exactly, It's so wonderful to be
33:02
able to, you know, accept yourself and like yourself, and
33:09
then you could truly, truly be a helper for others.
33:15
Do you have any tips for other working moms on work life
33:21
balance or is there one? I don't think there's any.
33:24
I don't think there's one, right?
33:26
Like I'm sure you've already went through that, but there's
33:28
no work life balance, right? There's no perfect work life
33:31
balance and you just go, you just like move forward and try
33:37
your best to get through the day, right?
33:40
But I think one thing to always try to remember for, for myself
33:46
is to self-care. Like I always make sure to put
33:51
an oxygen mask on my on me first, right?
33:53
Try to take good care of myself first.
33:57
So you already start to feel that you need that alone time,
34:01
right? Like when you're stressed with
34:03
work and kids running around crying, fighting each other, and
34:08
you fight with your husband and all kinds of family, personal
34:12
work really conflict. And it's so chaotic, right?
34:16
But one thing that we all as working moms should always
34:20
remember to do is to make sure to make that time to do
34:25
something that we we love doing, whether that's decoration or
34:28
nail, getting nails done or having a spa day or, you know,
34:32
going out and with your friends and having have some coffee, not
34:36
with like coffee meeting with business folks, but like, you
34:39
know, with your best friends, right?
34:41
I know it's really hard, hard to find that time and especially if
34:44
you have younger kids, right? But even if that means to hire a
34:48
nanny to, you know, have that time maybe with your husband
34:53
like date night or with your friend, I think it's really
34:56
important to have that self-care, regular self-care
35:00
routine and. Not feel guilty about it, right?
35:03
That. Yeah, exactly.
35:05
Yeah. That's a good tip.
35:07
So hard to do. You know what I learned today
35:10
with my other guest? And she said.
35:12
Our brains work actually, when we're at pause.
35:17
Oh my God, I know. Oh crazy, that's so true.
35:21
Right. Yes, so.
35:23
That me time, the self-care time, is actually necessary.
35:29
That's so true. Oh my God, that's that's one
35:33
liner. It's just so true.
35:35
Right. I never thought about it that
35:37
way. Me.
35:38
Neither. So wow.
35:40
I really thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, it was so much
35:43
fun. You too.
35:45
I really enjoyed our conversation.
35:47
Thank you so much for having. Me.
35:48
Thank you so much, Evelyn.