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BREWERS BLUEPRINT: Milwaukee wins World Series with old-school hitting approach; what it means for Angels · Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: On the way to leading Milwaukee to the World Series
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: title this week, Brewers manager Pat Murphy told Tom Verducci
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated that he has already heard from the
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: GM of one team who was called on the carpet
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: by his owners and asked, what do we need to
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: do to be like the Brewers? Major League Baseball, like
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: most sports, is a copycat league, and the Brewers, after
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: winning 103 games in the regular season, rolled through the
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: playoffs with a throwback style of baseball that more teams
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: are expected to try to emulate in the future. And
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Tom Verducci wrote a really interesting article about this topic
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: this week. But before we talk about what this might
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: mean for the Angels, a question for Mark Trumbo, the
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: former Angels slugger. What stood out to you about the Brewers' approach?
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: The Brewers do a lot of things really well. And
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I think it starts, it absolutely starts at the top
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: with Pat Murphy. Um, he's got his fingerprints all over
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: the way that this team goes about playing, uh, baseball. Um,
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: when I was looking at the article and researching some
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: other information, the hitting coaches, uh, in this episode, we'll
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: be heavily talking about their offensive approach, um, But Murphy
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: sets the tone. I mean, one of the quotes is
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of times it's like pecking away like a woodpecker,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: like Murph talks about all the time. Jason Lane said,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: we kept pecking and pecking and all of a sudden
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: you punctured it and the thing would blow up. You
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: could feel it in the other dugout, like here they come.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, they had two runners on every inning, no
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: matter who was pitching. They beat Yamamoto. They beat the
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: best of the best. Freddy Peralta, they got him on
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: the ropes. Finally, you know, we're able to push him
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: out and then strung together, what, seven hits with two outs.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: They are doing things totally contrary to the rest of
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: the league and to one team in particular, the Halos.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I can get a little more granular, a lot more with,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: you know, exactly what they're doing offensively, but it is
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: not looking to pull the ball in the air at
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: all costs. They do not strike out. at an astronomical rate.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: And the thing is, it's really hard to accomplish doing
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: what they do on offense with the amount of frequency
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: they do in theory. Okay. We're not trying to hit
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: home runs. We're just going to pepper line drives. That's
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: really hard to do. And they've found a group of
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: guys that buys in that by it's it. I mean,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: there's seems like they have no prima donnas. Contreras has
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: a pretty big personality. He's also holding that trophy at
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: the end. Phenomenal catcher. He'd be an excellent addition to
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: any team. They have the pitching. Their bullpen is... What
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: do they do better than the Angels? Everything. Their hitting
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and their bullpen was electric. Their starting pitching is excellent.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: They play great defense. There's no wonder.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Murphy.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: is running circles around the rest of the league. Not everybody,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: but a lot of the team's managers. And he commands
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: the room. He absolutely has the respect of every one
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: of his players.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Sam Blum of The Athletic, our regular HT contributor, joins
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: us again. Sam, welcome back to the show. Same question.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: What jumped out to you about that article and from
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: watching Milwaukee play this October?
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Well, I think it makes a good point about you know, just,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, pulling the ball in the air. I mean,
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: the Brewers, I looked it up, they do it like 12%
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: of the time, which is 3% less than any other team. And,
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: you know, I think the Angels were like close to 19% and,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: you know, the range goes up to over about 20.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: So it's, they do it significantly less. I don't, you know,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: I think that that speaks to an approach that obviously
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: works for their personnel. I don't think that like, it's
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: the reason they won the World Series. I mean, you know,
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: I look at like Aaron Ashby and, Trevor McGill and
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: their bullpen and having a starting pitcher that throws 104 and,
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: you know, just, just the deepest team. I mean, every,
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: every single, you know, there's not really a, like a
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: weak spot in that entire roster. I mean, I think
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: when you looked at the Rays, the Rays had a
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: bunch of players that I thought were kind of at
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: times like they have these significant weaknesses, but as a whole,
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: they really work well together. And like, if they're going
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: to win the world series, it's going to be maybe
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: as an upset and it's going to be, you know,
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: kind of the sum of their parts, but the Brewers
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: are like a team that is, some of their parts
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: and they're just all really good. And they're like, they're,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: you know, they perform at a really high level and
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: there isn't, there isn't like automatic outs in that lineup.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: And there aren't like, you know, guys who you don't
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: want to bring in from the bullpen. You want to
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: avoid like every single option is a good one. And
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: I agree with Mark. I mean, this is, you know,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: sometimes I kind of roll my eyes at Pat Murphy,
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: but I mean, you can't really sneeze at what he's done. And,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: and honestly, like, I appreciate the way he communicates. I
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: think he's very authentic. And, and like what he's, you know,
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: what he sees and what he believes. And even if, if,
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: you know, cynics like myself, maybe find it annoying sometimes,
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: like that's for us to find annoying. I mean, it's,
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: it works and I appreciate the honesty and I feel
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: like he tends to give you what his mind, regardless of,
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: you know, whether or not you, you see it or
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: agree with it. And then, and, you know, I think
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: to the point that Mark made, like, isn't it maybe
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: full of players that all agree with or love their
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: roles or everything like that, but they respect him. And
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: that is really what matters. And I think, you know,
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: you see with the, when compared to the angels, it's
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: not necessarily that players don't respect like Kurt Suzuki, but
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: I think that there is a, maybe a respect vacuum
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: in some capacity when you have turnover, turnover, turnover, and
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: you have losses and you have a manager that has,
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: hasn't maybe earned that respect in the same way. Um,
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: Pat Murphy's been there for a long time and he's
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: been in the game for a long time. And I
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: think the angels need to find some sort of cohesion
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: in the, I mean, in their coaching staff and their
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: front office that, that the Brewers have kind of mastered
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: over a very long period of time here that got.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Them to this point.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Sam Blomacinic?
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: No way. Yeah.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Who would have thunk it? So Verderchi's piece highlights how
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: the Brewers didn't try to out-Homer everybody. They had the
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: lowest launch angle in baseball at about nine degrees, first
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: in ground ball percentage, first in opposite field hitting, and last,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: as Mark said, in pull-side air. They hit the fewest
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: home runs of any team that won 103 games since
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: the 1986 Mets. They also won the World Series, and
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: they still scored a ton of runs. Now, Jake Bowers
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: is quoted in the article, and I pulled that, as saying,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: pull side air doesn't win anymore.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: It may work once in a.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: While, but it's not something that's sustainable consistently with the
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: way pitching is today. And when you rely on that
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: kind of hitting and it's not working, you have nothing.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: No other way to win a game. Mark, does that
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: resonate with you as a former hitter?
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I was a little surprised to see it put
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: so plain English right there. That's pretty definitive. That is
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: his opinion. I'm sure that there are some that would
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: want to argue about that. But as somebody who played in,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: let's say, more of an old school environment when I
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: first came up, and also have experienced some of the
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: other newer age stuff with all of the KVS and
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: the technology. I haven't used the Turgiak machine, but what
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I do know is to be a successful hitter and
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: to hit for a higher batting average, you've got to
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: use some portion of the whole field. I mean, from
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: the beginning of the year with Ohapi, I've talked about
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: how much better he was when he had that part
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: of the field available to him. Um, and the times where,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: you know, the, the production really dipped, uh, it almost,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: it became off limits. I mean, you can get to
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: a place with your swing. If you're so focused on
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: doing something like pulling the ball in the air, the
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: mechanics aren't going to line up at all to give yourself,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: give yourself a chance to hit that ground ball single
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: in the four hole for a right-handed hitter and flip
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: it for a lefty. And that's how you keep your
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: average up. That's how you keep your confidence up. Um,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: confidence is, you know, you want to be more confident.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: get more hits. I think that may sound simplistic, but
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: it's absolutely true. If you're going 0 for 4 night
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: after night and colliding with a three-run homer, that's going
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: to make you feel good for a while, but you
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: don't feel like a well-rounded hitter. I think one thing
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: that really stood out, and we heard a lot this year,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: the Angels were just that one big hit away. I
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: don't think you could say that about the Brewers. They
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: got hits everywhere, and they did not wait around for
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: that big three run bomb that probably is never going
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: to come. And the thing that I want to get
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: into more, I'm not going to do it now, but
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: why is this approach? Why is using the opposite field
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: turning out to be so successful against the premium pitching
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: and premium heat? I would, you know, on the surface
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: say it's tough to go the other way with a
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: hundred mile an hour fastball, but I think they're doing
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: a really good job of controlling their barrels. And by that,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, not having that big scoopy uppercut swing. They
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: clearly are, what do you call it? Bobbing and we're
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: zigging and zagging where the other teams are going one way,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: they're going the other. So teams will try and copy it.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Will they have the same success? Most likely not. But
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: this is a good blueprint to lean on.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: Let me ask, cause I'm curious, like I look back
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: at like the 2014, 15 Royals and like people thought
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: that that would change the game. I feel like maybe
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: that those teams and just playing totally anomalous baseball. And
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: I don't think it really did. I mean, I don't know.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know if that's the kind of, if this
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: is like a flash in the pan or if it's
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: a reflection of the personnel they have, or if it
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: really is like the kind of thing that the brewers
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: have reestablished, like what baseball will look like. I don't know.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: Is that, is it just a conversation of today or
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: is it, is it actually like, because I look back
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: at that period and I think it looked really just
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: that didn't pan out in the same way because I
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: really felt like that Royals team was was built to
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: do exactly what they did but I don't know if
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: it fit everyone.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Else yeah I think it depends on if the Brewers
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: are able to sustain this for a few more years
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: even you know you know maybe not what the Dodgers
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: have done for 10-12 years but And as memory serves,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: that Royals team had a lights-out three-headed monster in the bullpen.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: And then Kelvin Herrera, I think he got hurt the
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: next year, so that put a massive dent in the bullpen.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: I can't remember their exact rotation. They had some pretty
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: good left-handed pop with Hosmer and Moustakas was in his
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: prime back then. And they played a speed game too. So, yeah,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I just don't think the Royals were able to sustain
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: it to a point where You know, the league was
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: going to say, oh, my God, this is the way
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: to do it now. And, Mark, wasn't that sort of
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: right at the start of the launch angle, kind of,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: you know, 2012, 14, 15, as that was sort of
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: getting started?
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: No, that was prior.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, really?
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Okay. I'd say 2016 is when I started to field
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: more and more questions about it and definitely after that
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: as well. I think that the Royals, I mean, them
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: and the Giants were kind of battling– quite a bit
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: in those years. Both teams more in the vein of
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: this Brewers team. I think this Brewers team was, they
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: could hang with any of those teams. And it comes
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: down to, I mean, just so well-rounded. I mean, we're
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: kind of cherry-picking the offense, but we could very easily,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, the bullpen. The 0-2 Angels team gets a
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: lot of credit for the position players and the aggressive
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: style of baseball and everything else. That bullpen was ridiculous. Percival, 1-9-2.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: with 40 saves for the regular season. Donnelly, 2.17, 49-innings pitch.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Ben Weber with a 2.54. Scott Shields with a 2.2.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: In the playoffs, K-Rod with a 1.93. In 18-innings pitch,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: he went 5-1. So you want to have– I mean,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to pick– the Lockdown Brothers do a
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: great job. I saw their show this morning, and they
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: were talking about delineating kind of the Socia-era baseball into
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: two halves. up to about 2010 and then after. 2011,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: for example, they stole, you know, we, I was there,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: more bases than the 2002 team. What did we not
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: have in many of those years as a strong bullpen?
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if that was kind of a
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: DePoto thing, in my opinion. He liked to find guys, hopefully,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: you know, at an affordable cost. The money was spent elsewhere.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Not always all that wisely on the big sluggers, but,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: you know, the game, I think those teams were very
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: competitive and no, Mickey Hatcher did not try and teach
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Albert Pujols to find, uh, ever.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: You had 23 stolen bases, your career.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, with Erstad too, I was thinking like his
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: stolen base percentage was, was good for his time, but
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: it would not look good today. And stealing bases is
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: easier than ever before. Now. I mean, that's painfully obvious
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: with the rules on pitchers, uh, you know, only two
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: pickoffs and so forth. So, a bigger basis too. It's
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: really hard to totally compare apples to apples. One thing
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I don't, do you recall in 2002 seeing anyone throwing
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: as hard as Mizorowski as a starter?
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: As a starter? Oh my goodness. They had Jared Washburn
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: and Ramon Ortiz and Kevin Apier. The rotation on that
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: OT team was probably one of the worst rotations of
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: any world series champion, but it was the bullpen that
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: carried him and getting back to your speed thing. Really,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Sean Figgins was the only burner on that team, and
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: he was a kid who came off the bench to
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: pinch run for those guys. And Ersty, when he was healthy,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: could run. Eckstein was a great base runner. What that
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: team did better than any team I've ever seen is
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: go first to third on so many singles. They led
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the league every year going first to third, aggressive base running,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: smart base running, and the situational hitting, you know, getting
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: that guy in from third with less than two outs
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: was off the charts. So getting back to the Barris quote, Sam,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: You know, you've covered the Angels for years. How does
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: that quote sort of land when you think about the
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: way this organization has approached hitting over the last several seasons?
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Approach?
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for lack of a better term.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, the Angels have just cycled out so many
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: players that I don't even know how you have a
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: consistent approach. I mean, you've cycled out hitting coaches. You've
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: cycled out– oh, hi, Mark. You cycled out.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Everybody, right?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: There's no approach, right? Like, I watched Jose Siri take
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: enough at-bats to realize that this year.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't know.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: And that's not to pick on him.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: There was everybody.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: You know, Neto, probably one of the biggest callers for
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: the season.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Soler, yeah.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: So, yes.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, to me, like, there's... I think it's smart
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: for a team like the Brewers to recognize their strengths
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: and recognize where they feel like the game is going
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: and build an approach off that.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: It clearly did here. And clearly people bought into it
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: and made it part of, if you read the top
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: of that story, just about how they get on their
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: teammates for doing what everybody else is trying to do.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: And I think that helps. It helps to have a
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: team game. You want to feel like you're you're buying
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: into a goal there. And I always feel like with
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: the angels, what I'm watching is everybody's just trying to
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: like just pre-swing up there and they, they have their
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: own approach and maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: a lot of times it hasn't. And you know, there's,
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: you seldom see guys really overperform. And I think you
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: look at guys like Wade Meckler and like, you know,
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Donovan Walton this year, like guys that just came in
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: and did really well. And like, they kind of buoyed
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: you at times, which is not what you want. You know,
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: you want to have, I think, at the very least,
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: some sort of plan, whether or not it's this one
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: or another. There's just nothing that I think resembled a
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: strategy for the Angels, certainly not over a long period
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: of time.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Now, Milwaukee hitting coach Dan Vogelbach said, barreling balls is great,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: but staying inside and staying through balls, that gets you hits.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: If you start cheating to the fastball, trying to barrel it,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: you're really in trouble. And as Sam just alluded to,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: They reinforced that approach every day. A rollover to the
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: poolside got called classic for some reason. I'm not sure why.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: In the dugout, and Jake Bauer said, you just don't
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: ever do it. Mark, how realistic is that kind of
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: daily accountability in a major league clubhouse?
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Classic, they're mocking the rest of the league is what
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: they're doing.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, like that's old.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Typical, typical. or just, just throw in shade at, you know,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: other teams that are out there treating it like a
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: driving range, um, in batting practice. And I'm firmly, here's
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: one tangent, but batting practice should not be a driving range.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: So she used to sit behind the cage and he'd,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: he'd bark at you. If you, what is this? You know,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I've already said it, but driving range, you know, he
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: didn't want to see guys that were just out there
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: looking like they were treating it like a home run Derby,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: especially if you were a guy, well, I'm going to
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: use Andrew Romine, for example. Um, he came in one year,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I think he had worked on adding more power to
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: his swing. And you know what? It really, it might've worked.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: It might've worked well. I do know it lasted all
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: of about five minutes and maybe less than that before.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: So she put a kibosh on it and said, what
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: in the is that he didn't, he was watching a
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: guy that he was counting on for low line drives, uh,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: on base percentage bunning that was trying to hit like, uh,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Prince Fielder. And, um, I'm not trying to be mean,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: but I vividly remember this on whatever field that was,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: the first field off of Tempe Diablo near the parking lot.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Home run would be into the left field parking lot.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: But just stuff like that. But Soch was always around.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: He never talked about hitting mechanics, but he did talk
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: about approach and philosophy and battling and competing. I think
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: any manager, I don't know how much Dave Roberts probably
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: weighs in, but I assume that He does have influence there.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: And I think you need that. I think as a manager,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: you need to have your kind of thumb on all
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: areas of the game. You need to be fluent in
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: talking to the pitchers, the defense, the catchers, even if
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: that's not a position that you're going to coach. But
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: just getting back to like, you know, Murphy, here's a
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: quote from him. How are we going to create chaos?
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: I asked some of the people who were like opponents
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: of the Brewers in previous years and they brought them in.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And they basically said they looked up as, you know,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: they were playing them and they had the bases loaded
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: every time. So they really were trying to suffocate you
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: death by a thousand cuts. And the Angels, I think,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: would do well. I mean, they have to get on
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: base more. I mean, that's part of it. The strikeouts
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: are a huge deal. Those never give you a chance
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: to get on base. They don't put any pressure on
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: the defense. And the Angels don't hunt in a pack.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, they are kind of all up there doing
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: their thing. Shaunawell has his approach. Trout's got his approach.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean these guys can't be successful, but as
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: an opposing pitcher, you get to pick on the individual,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: and it's much easier to kind of pick apart that
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: than having a whole team that just seems to kind of–
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: they never let you breathe. So I think that's what
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: they're trying to suffocate every opposing pitcher and suck a
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: lot of pitches out of them. They're not swinging at
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: the first pitch. That's one big thing too. Weak first
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: pitch outs are death, and the Brewers don't do it.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Sam, have you ever seen anything close to this Brewers
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: level of player-driven enforcement with the Angels? No.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, like … I go back to like the
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: thing with the angels and it isn't just approach.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of it is personnel.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: And a lot of it is having just so many
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: people cycling in and out of your team. The angels,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: you know, they every year have played like in the,
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: in the six years that I've been around this team,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: they've played like a minimum of 60 to 65 players
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: every year. I don't know.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I would imagine.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know what the brewers are at probably in
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: the fifties or forties.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is what you want.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: One of them being Luis Ranjifo. Congratulations to Luis Ranjifo
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: for winning. Yeah. Yes, but I do think that that
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: is an issue, right? You can't establish a player-driven offensive
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: style and one that.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Feels like it's consistent.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: And that's the reality of big league baseball. You're going
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: to have guys coming in throughout the year, and I
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: credit the Brewers on being able to integrate different players
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: in throughout the season that can buy into what is
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: a kind of a team set dynamic, but if you
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: don't have that and you just kind of have guys
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: cycling in and out and you have guys getting called
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: up and sent down and you have people whining about
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: getting sent down in the clubhouse and just all that,
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: it just, you're not going to have, uh, just like a, what, what,
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: what the Brewers had.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: And that's fine.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: I don't think like the angels were at the point
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: where I expected that from them this year. And I
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: don't think they had the personnel. I mean, the Brewers,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's not just about a team approach. They
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: also have like just genuinely great hitters. And the Angels
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: didn't have that at the time, like from, you know,
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: up and down the lineup all year. So, yeah, it's
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: a lot of things, but the Angels haven't come close.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: There's nothing even, they're not even in the realm right now. Like,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's possible for them to, it's hard
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: to compare it because it's just watching two different Major
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: League Baseball kind of.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: There's been a big vacuum since Torrey Hunter departed in
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: terms of vocal team leadership. There's no secret about that.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: the Brewers have many guys that apparently will speak up.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, we saw it right there that Bowers was
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: talking about it. Christian Yelich is team captain. It sounds
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: like Frelick contributes, Contreras contributes. Like you have a lot
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: of guys that, I mean, and they're probably doing it
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: and influencing Pratt who will, um, a phenomenal series by him.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I take it back. I got on you a little bit, but, uh,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: You know, he was getting, what, two, I mean, on fire.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: It looked like a very talented player out there.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then you pass it down the line. And
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: I think that hearing Darren Erstad in our previous episode,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: talking about the guys that mentored him. And then Erstad,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: no question, was a huge mentor on the next generation.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Who's doing that currently on the Halos? I'm not sure.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: And it's tough when you, I mean, they lost 100 games,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: but for the 11 straight years, if you have losing teams,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: it doesn't, it's hard to have vocal leaders on teams
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: that don't win baseball games at a regular clip. So
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: I think that the next iteration of, you know, whatever
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: the Angels are going to be, love to hear more.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I know we put in a request to hopefully get
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: John Moselak. We were told at a later date when
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: he has more to uh, talk about. So, um, for
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: any of those wondering, there's a.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Lot to talk about right now.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I, I, I think that, uh, either that was
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: a polite, uh, we'll do it down the road or
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: pound sand. I'm not sure, but, um, interesting. Mike, you've
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: done this a lot longer.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: So the Brewers had seven straight two out hits, uh,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: during that eight run rally in game three. And, Vogelbeck's
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: quote was interesting. Nobody went for the big swing. It's
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: just continuing to take what they give you. They know
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: that they don't have to be the hero, and they
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: just give it to the guy behind them. And I
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: know Tom Verducci in his piece compared this group to
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: the 86 Mets and all, but to me, and I
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: mentioned this on the last show, this Brewer team really
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: reminded me of the 0-2 Angels team. When you look
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: back at their postseason, division series, game four, the Angels
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: scored eight runs in the fifth inning, and a clincher
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: over the Yankees. Sean Wooten led off with a home run.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Then it was single, single, single, single, single, single, single,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: two-run double. Angels went first to third on three of
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: those singles, three of those hits to the opposite field.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: And who will ever forget the 10-run rally in the
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: seventh inning of Game 5, clincher over the Twins in
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: the ALCS. Now Spezio, Benji Molina opened with singles, a.k.a.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: three-run homer after that. Single, single, RBI walk, RBI single,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: two-run single, single, single. Of course, David Eckstein hit by
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: pitch to score a run, and Erstad with a RBI
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: ground out to finish off that rally. That was, to me,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: talk about death by a thousand cuts. I mean, I
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: think I forget how many pitching changes the opponents made
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: in those innings, but they just could. We've said this
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: on the show before, Mark, even as a guy who
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: majored in the three-run homer, when you just single teams
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: to death, it's just demoralizing, isn't it? I don't know.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: At one point, the single became uncool. I think that
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: that is one thing, one huge thing I would take
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: away from the Brewers. They still very much value a
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: base hit. I think that's a concept that makes me
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: it's a hard one. Cause I, I heard so many
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: guys that for you play first base and erstad mentioned,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: you know, you've got a lot of people talking and stuff.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to name the names, but, um, some
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: guys would be pissed off. Uh, like a single was
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: beneath them. Anyway. Um, I remember a certain prominent blue
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Jays slugger with a beard that came from the pirates before.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: And he, uh, revitalized his career in Toronto, but he,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: he would, he has, he had a lot to say.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: It was, he was a funny guy.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Whatever. Give him a pass. But I think that, uh,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: at times guys, now the younger players are, if they're
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: going to these, I'm going to say driveline, there it is. Uh,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: they're not preaching hitting singles at all. They're preaching doing
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: damage and patting your back pocket. And I think I
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: saw Murphy joking with Bowers, you know, when you're a
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Yankee next year and, you know, uh, You've got a
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: fat wallet, but you're still losing all those games.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Playing for yourself. Playing for yourself. Something like that.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Murphy's got a sense of humor. Messaging Andrew Friedman, you
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: guys are really digging deep under those rocks for talent
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: when they signed Yamamoto and Otani and everybody else. He
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: can get away with it. He's got the credibility. When
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: he interviewed for the job, he was telling the guys, hey,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: let's get this over with. What are we doing? Why
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: am I waiting around?
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Um, he's got, you know, is it an ego? He's
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: got a lot of success and character and personality. The
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: game needs more personality, I think too.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: The, um, I was going to say, well, we talk
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: about the singles. I, we've talked a lot about Nolan
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Shana on this and I find him interesting in the,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: in the context. I've, I've always kind of thought like
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: Nolan Shana will make a lot of sense on a
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: team like the Brewers because he fits into that way.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: It fits into it.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: And I always feel like he's, he's the kind of
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: player that you have a lot of good players around him. It,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: it accentuates, I think a, what he brings to a
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: team where on the angels, it just doesn't. But we
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: saw it with him in the beginning of the season
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: where he, where I felt like he was looking more
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: for power. We saw him strike out a lot more.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: And then as the season went on, he went back
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: to what looked like work for him. And, you know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: maybe that's, maybe that's like that. We talked about approach.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Like maybe that's kind of, if like, that's a reflection
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: of somebody, you know, understanding what their approach should be
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: and actually having one. Um, and you know, I think
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: that this team needs more of that as it relates.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: I wanted to do like that, that quote, that, uh,
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: that comment that, uh, Pat Murphy made to Jake Bowers.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: That's like, that's when I say at the beginning of
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: the episode, I roll my eyes and I'm like, he's won.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: The world series.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Like why are you talking about Jake Bowers signing with
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: the Yankees? He already played for the Yankees by the way.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Miguel, I think one of the Chicago teams too. I
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: don't know if it's, I clearly, I think they have
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: a big chip on their shoulder and, and, and they
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: have a while and, Yeah. So that, I mean, I,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: I probably, you know, are they my favorite type of comments? No,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: they are interesting, but it's probably a lot of pent
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: up frustration at coming close and living in the shadow.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: You know, they, they are under dogs and, but you
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: know what I, I, who, uh, the starting pitcher, uh, Rasmussen,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: I believe. So that's the best baseball team he's ever played.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He hasn't been in the league that long, but
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: still six, seven years. Yeah. He's played.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Great pick up. Let's flip it to the Angels of 2026.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: We just lived through the first hundred loss season in
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: franchise history. The Angels average launch angle was 14.5 degrees.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Their ground ball rate around 42%. Opposite field percentage at 23%.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: They hit the same number of home runs as the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Brewers did, 154, but scored nowhere near as many runs
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: and finished near the bottom of the league in most
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: offensive categories. Mark, when the power didn't show up, did
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: you feel like there was a clear or any plan B?
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Power really wasn't that exceptional this year. So playing for
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: a power offense and not having the personnel. I mean,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Taylor Ward contributed quite a bit. He wasn't around. Joshua
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: was unable to match his production. So this team was not–
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Joe Adele didn't have the same statistics he did the
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: year before. This team would have been much better off.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: And they did, we saw a shift. They tried to
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: kind of adopt a new, you know, philosophy. But when
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: I see that mid-season, that's, to me, that's just blowing
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: in the wind. That's not a, there was no message,
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: you know, dictated, early in the year. I don't spring
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: training is still, we heard very little about it. I
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: don't know how much work was put in. It seemed
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: like a lot of off time, a lot of early days.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: And to me, that's kind of like, that's really player friendly.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: I'm sure the guys appreciated it, but where's the fundamental
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: work being put in. And if I'm wrong, then I'll,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: I'll eat it. But I just didn't hear enough about
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: the focus, detailed work, these teams like the rays. So
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: the rays are going to be totally overshadowed now. But
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: the Rays have unbelievable coaching. When I was rehabbing in 19,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: watching them do infield work in Durham, it just made
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: so much sense. I said, man, this is player development.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: This is what it looks like. These guys are dead
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: serious about this, you know, drill work at 2 p.m.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: And a lot of those guys went on. Cronenworth was
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: one of them there. I faced him as a, he
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: was a starting pitcher too, by the way.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: He threw the upper nineties and he buzzed my tower.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: And I said, I don't know if he knows where
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: it's going, but he definitely has a rock and burn arm.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: But I'd have to go look and see what other players,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: because I know that a lot of them turned into
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: quality major leaguers. Simpson was a guy that, you know,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: he fits like Shauna well in a lot of ways. I,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: you know, he doesn't, hit home runs at all. One
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: inside the park home run in the minor leagues for
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: his career. I mean, he put good wood on the ball.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Line drive hitter. Incredibly fast. His defense looks okay. Not
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: a strong arm, but....
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Strong head.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, they're an excellent team, too. I think
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: some offense taken to Ken Rosenthal's question. Was that Walls
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: or somebody else? Do you guys, you know, winning one game,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: does it validate Well, the Brewers were a much better team,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: I think. The Rays, excellent year, but the National League's been,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: you know, produced better teams recently, in my opinion.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the Brewers just out-raid the Rays. You know,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: they were very similar teams here. The Brewers just were
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: deeper in every, you know, their lineup was much, look
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: at the bottom of the Brewers lineup compared to the Rays.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: They just destroyed them. The bullpens, two, three arms deeper.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: The rotation's a little deeper. They just were a better team. Yeah.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: The other thing to keep in mind, I mean, and
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: it was just so prevalent this year, and I find
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: sometimes this narrative to be overblown, but the American League
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: was just so much worse than the National League all year.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: And the Rays, even just covering them in the ALCS,
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: my big takeaway was this is the runaway best team
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: in the AL, and it's not an insult to them.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: It's just like they didn't really even trust their bullpen.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, their rotation had Freddie Peralta, who they just
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: kind of like, picked up and and that's a good
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: reflection of player development but he wasn't like having a
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: stellar season by any means um and they just were
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: able to like run away with the al east they
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: were unable to you know basically get to the world
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: series without too much of a you know a fight
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: and it's it's like that's a reflection of in my
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: opinion of what i watched all season when i was
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: watching the angels i'm like this is a this was the.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Red socks like look the best to me at least
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: the angels opponents this year the rays didn't impress at
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: all versus the angels and That's just a couple three-game series.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: But yeah, the American League as a whole, I'm not
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: sure why, but the Angels benefited greatly from playing in
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: such a terrible division. Part of what we were going
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: to tie in were the 2016 Rays that scuffled. I
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: was there on a divisional team. That whole division was
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: extremely strong. We made the wild card and were the
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: third-place team in our own division. Red Sox were a behemoth.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: The Yankees were very competitive. The Blue Jays were the
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: team that knocked us out and the Raiders were buried,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: but that team would have waxed the 2026 angels. No question.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: I was looking back at their roster and I was like,
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: there's some good players here. Like Steve Pierce was there,
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: like Logan Morrison, Evan Longoria was still in his prime
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: at that time. Like it was pretty, it wasn't a
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: bad team or anything.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: They just were terrible.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: Like, but I mean, I mean, they had, you know,
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: a lot of randos floating in and out that weren't
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: really up to snuff, but that was a, Like I said,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: I was there for that season. It was raised baseball
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: and no one was there. It just felt like this
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: very hopeless situation. Good for them doing what they did
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: this year. I think that this team isn't necessarily significantly
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: better on paper than even that team was. They have
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: one mega superstar and they have a lot of good
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: players around them. I think that they are a reflection
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: of a great coaching staff and.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: A great approach.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: It is having a team approach, and ultimately I felt
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: like that got the Rays where they're at. They could
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: have won four games. I do agree with that. I
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: think they absolutely could have won this World Series. Seven-game
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: series don't always tell you. You might look at this
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: and say the Brewers were head over heels going to
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: win this, and maybe that's true, but do it over again?
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's a guarantee that that happens again.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Didn't they lose the first two games by one run?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, And talk about the coaching side.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: I think that was game two when the Rays took
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: a 4-0 lead.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they didn't tack on.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I had to walk our dogs. And as I
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: was walking out, I told my wife, I don't know
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: why I said it, but I said if the Brewers
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: can answer back with two runs, they're going to be
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: in a good position. And it ended up working out.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: I played long enough. I've seen enough baseball, whatever. But
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: why I said it is because that is punching back.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: You don't need to get all four back. But you
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: can demoralize a team by, you know, starting to say, hey,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: we're here. We're coming. If you know a team can
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: come back, the athletics did it a lot when I
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: was playing with the Angels. You needed to put them
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: to sleep. And if you didn't, they were going to
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: at some point you were they were going to make
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: their presence known. And they had, you know, teams. It's
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: an art form. And, you know, some teams roll over.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Some teams do not. One last point. I wanted to
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: go ahead.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: I was going to say, you know who didn't roll over?
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: We're like every team the angels played this year. It
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: felt like they just continued to give up leads. Anyway,
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: keep going.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: No, I saw the run differential may have pointed to
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: the angels, you know, being beat late a lot, not
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: necessarily getting squashed by, by, you know, 10 runs, but
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: they found ways to lose. You know, the bullpen was,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: was not a strength would be an understatement, but the
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: last Mike, when was the last time the angels locked
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: up a young ball player? I mean, extended a player,
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: especially a player. I don't think they've ever given one
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: to a minor league player, but the, both the brewers
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: and I think the Ray is also, but the brewers
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: for sure, they are locking these guys up in double
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: a and triple a or in their first, you know,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: X amount of years. And so they're having to pay
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: for it, but they're getting value too. And, but they
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: can identify who is going to work.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: And the last one was, the last one was probably
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Mike Trout's first contract before arbitration.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: There's 140 million.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Very similar to the Churrio type of contract at that age, years. So, yeah,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: that might be the last one.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Pratt, Lara. I mean, they– and why? Because their analytics department,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: both teams– I was surprised the Phillies actually have the
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: most personnel, if that's accurate. But these guys know what
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: they are looking at, and they know what they're looking
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: at at a very early age in the minor leagues.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if the Angels– Maybe they've done
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: a better job than I think, but it's kind of like,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: you know, he looks like a promising player. We'll see.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: You also need an owner that's willing to do it.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: And I don't, you know, or GM that thinks it's
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: the right approach. I mean, the Angels at this point
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: don't even know who their GM is. I guess it's
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: still Mo. I just, you know, like, you just... the
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: brewers have had these people in place, you know, even
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: like I saw, they put out a statement about like
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: David Stearns and, you know, I mean like it's, it's,
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: it's a well-oiled machine. Somebody leaves, another person fills it.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: Like that has been same thing with the Rays in
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: a lot of ways, you know, like these are, these are,
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: these are continuous organizations that have had, didn't just wake
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: up this.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Year and start performing really well.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: And like, I think the angels have expected that.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: What's that?
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Sustainable baseball. Yeah.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think, they expect to wake up one day
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: and have it all work. And that's been, that has
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: been the approach in Anaheim since I've been here and
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: probably a lot longer than that. It's, it's, is it
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: just going to work this year?
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Let's hope.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: And that is not what the Brewer and the Rays
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: are doing.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Continuity is huge. And God, how many, we just talked
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: about how many managers the Angels have had, how many
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: general managers. Eric Neander has led the Rays baseball operations
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: department since 2017, I believe. Kevin Cash. He's been there
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: since 07. Yeah, Kevin Cash has been the manager since
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: 2014 or 15, because that's when Joe Maddon left. And
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: he's had the same pitching coach for years. I mean,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: that singularity of message, I think, is a huge factor
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: in their success. Well, let's close with this question for Mark,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: maybe Sam, if you want to chime in. So Jake Bowers,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: a very quotable guy this week. is also out there
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: saying that next year's spring trainings are going to look
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: different around the game. And we talked about baseball being
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: a copycat league. I'm curious whether the Angels' new front
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: office and whoever ends up managing the team sees the
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Brewers as sort of a wake-up call. Mark, if you
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: were advising the next Angels manager and hitting coach, what
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: would you tell them to take from what Milwaukee just did? Everything.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Everything. I mean, what's not to like? But you have to,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: to Sam's point, I mean, where's the personnel? Who are
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: you going to have? If they go out and Michael King,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: by the way, elected free agency today, who would have guessed?
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Mark Trumbo would have guessed.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: But the Angels, we don't know what they're going to do.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: We are not going to hear what they're going to
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: do until they're ready to say it. It's not for
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: lack of trying, but that is how it goes here.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: But if they beef up that bullpen in a big way,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: you have a lot better team immediately. I think that
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: that is the lowest hanging fruit on the offensive side.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: It is tougher. It's a tougher to acquire hitters. You
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: have to, and that is partly why, and I don't
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: know if people thought, saw some comments saying it's not
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: going to be that long until they're great again. I
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: wasn't implying the angels are going to take 10 years.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, we've said it eight times, probably three years.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: before a real competitive window um they could beat that
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: it could be longer I I don't know but um
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: they have to start you know what is their strength
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: is starting pitching and they could lean into that even
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: more with a guy like Michael King with Tarek Skubal
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: but they have got to bring in more talented players
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: uh Jim Bowden I'm not sure what how he creates
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: his lists but uh the one middle infielder tied, uh,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: to the angels in his article the other day is jazz. Mike, you,
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: there it is.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: They need help.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, how many positions do they need help at
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: second base, third base catcher.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Well, it depends on what they do. Yeah. Uh, trout.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: So I was going to go to a core. I
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: don't know where they're going to catch it.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: It's a large amount of the, you know, a lot
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: of positions need a lot of help. Bullpen needs a
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: lot of help. Um, Got a long ways to go,
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: but it can be done. It just needs to be
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: done smartly. Spending the money wisely, not just spending. I understand,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: by the way, that article with the previous Rays owner
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: was interesting. Is he revered in Tampa or the opposite?
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: I don't think anymore. But, you know, like, listen, I mean,
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: it's hard. I think it's tough to be popular as
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: an owner.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: They did well there.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: But also, like, I think there are a lot of
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: issues with the way that stadium situation played out. And,
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: you know. The end, the end of that era was,
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: was not a, not a great one to, to, to
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: go off your point though. I think why not go
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: look for Jake Bauer?
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's a free agent, right?
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: Like he teased and he's an angels, he grew up
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: in angels, man.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: He said it a lot.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. From Orange County. Yeah.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: There's, and I, and I, I kind of hate that
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: whole mindset. I'm like, well, the angels should go get
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: the guys from Orange County, but you know, I get him.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Because he's a good player.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a good player. And he's like, and he's,
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: he's told you what their approach, like you want to,
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: you want to, you want to build a culture. Like
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: clearly this guy is good with that. Clearly he's a
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: culture guy and he's a talented player. And you know, he's,
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: he probably won't be at least some, he probably have some,
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: you know, some real feeling about being with the angels
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: given his history.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: So I don't know.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: Like, I think that, you know, you want to start
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: thinking about culture, but again, there's not even really a
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: GM in place or even as far as I'm aware, like,
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: and a decision-making owner in place. Like there's so many
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: what ifs right now, and you have a month until
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: the lockout. And it's just that if we're talking about
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: things in a vacuum, like it's a regular off season, there's,
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of suggestions you might have, but right
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: now it's like, a.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Lot more going on in a positive way than we
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: think too. I mean, I don't want to frame it
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: like they might have a detailed plan and just, you know,
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: it's unwise business to put it out there before you
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: need to. Um, we could also hear about it tomorrow.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: So I don't know. You know, we really don't know.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know is what I'm saying, but, um, you're
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: the professional Mike, you do it. I'm just still, uh,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: trying to wrap my head around the fact. My wife
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: is a Marina high school graduate to Marina high school
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: grads on the field, the clincher.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: World series and Jake Bowers and Trevor McGill. I don't
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: know if that's ever happened. Got to get, uh, uh,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Elias or somebody. Yeah. McGill is from Marina high school.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Pretty amazing.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Well, we'll close the show with that. Sam, why don't
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: you show off a little Halo Territory gear we got
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: going on there.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Go to haloterritoryshop.com. We have all sorts of cool hoodies,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: as Sam is fashioning, T-shirts, beanies, onesies for your newborns,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. That's going to do it for
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: the show today. Sam Blum of The Athletic, thanks for joining.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Mark Trumbull, as always, thanks for tuning in and listening.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: We appreciate it. Please like and subscribe, and we'll see
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: you next time on Halo Territory.