Latest / Brian Thomas / Citizen Watchdog - Todd Zinser

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Citizen Watchdog - Todd Zinser · Brian Thomas

0:15
Speaker 1: It's 7.06 here at 55KRCD Talk Station. Oh, what a
0:18
Speaker 1: wonderful thing to behold as I look across the board
0:20
Speaker 1: here and see citizen watchdog Todd Zinser. And if you're
0:23
Speaker 1: not following what he has to say, find Facebook, find
0:25
Speaker 1: Todd Zinser, and read what he has to report. He,
0:28
Speaker 1: as we like to joke about with Signal 99, brings
0:30
Speaker 1: the receipts. And I think even to a greater degree
0:33
Speaker 1: because Todd was a former U.S. Inspector General. He has
0:37
Speaker 1: the knowledge and skill sets to crunch numbers and look
0:39
Speaker 1: at documents that you and I would glaze over and
0:42
Speaker 1: probably not find very entertaining, let alone decide that we
0:45
Speaker 1: were going to dedicate our retirement time to going through
0:47
Speaker 1: such matters. Todd Zinsser, I thank you from the bottom
0:49
Speaker 1: of my heart for what you do. And I think
0:52
Speaker 1: you probably deserve one hell of a lot more, a
0:54
Speaker 1: whole hell of a lot more credit than you are given.
0:56
Speaker 1: I'm sure people give you credit, but you're kind of
0:58
Speaker 1: like an unsung hero. You review what's being done. You
1:02
Speaker 1: look for the documents and information that by law or
1:04
Speaker 1: statute or whatever are supposed to be there. And you
1:07
Speaker 1: find out that quite often the information that is supposed
1:10
Speaker 1: to be there isn't there, which would allow you and
1:12
Speaker 1: I as taxpayers to trace the dollars that are spent
1:14
Speaker 1: and doled out by city council. But it's so much
1:17
Speaker 1: more than that. And I know we have a lot
1:19
Speaker 1: of topics to go over. Streetcar. Yeah, that's a topic.
1:22
Speaker 1: The railroad money. But let's start with Cheryl Long. I
1:25
Speaker 1: was just talking with Ken Kober. And lo and behold,
1:31
Speaker 1: when you bring more officers to communities that are troubled
1:35
Speaker 1: by violence, The crime rate in those communities go down.
1:38
Speaker 1: More walking patrols equals lower crime. I know you're nodding
1:42
Speaker 1: and kind of smiling. No kidding, right? So this has
1:45
Speaker 1: been proven. And lo and behold, also, the residents of
1:49
Speaker 1: the communities are happy to see the police department. They're
1:53
Speaker 1: not running hot and scared. They're not balled up in
1:55
Speaker 1: a fetal position because they fear the man. That's the
1:58
Speaker 1: position that you get from the Iris Rollies of the world.
2:01
Speaker 1: That's the position you get apparently from the Cheryl Longs
2:03
Speaker 1: of the world. So let's start with Cheryl Long. Okay.
2:05
Speaker 1: She's best friends with Iris Rowley. I have some great
2:07
Speaker 1: companionship with her. She's listening to Iris Rowley who says
2:09
Speaker 1: police are bad. Police make people nervous. Police are perceived
2:13
Speaker 1: as racist. The whole thing needs to be rethunk, removed, whatever.
2:19
Speaker 1: That's not what people want.
2:20
Speaker 2: Right.
2:23
Speaker 1: I know the topic isn't related to crime when we
2:25
Speaker 1: talk about Cheryl Long. But I guess the Sixth Circuit
2:29
Speaker 1: had something to say about her in connection with her
2:31
Speaker 1: firing of former Fire Chief Washington. Right. She's also in
2:35
Speaker 1: hot water over the Cincinnati police chief's firing as well.
2:39
Speaker 1: We could get to that, too. But this one's a
2:41
Speaker 1: real problem because Chief Washington has filed a lawsuit for
2:44
Speaker 1: wrongful termination against the city of Cincinnati. And usually people
2:47
Speaker 1: like Cheryl Long are immune from personal responsibility. This is
2:51
Speaker 1: if they did it on the job. What's your take
2:53
Speaker 1: on what the Sixth Circuit had to say? Todd Zinser,
2:56
Speaker 1: good to have you here.
2:57
Speaker 2: Well, good morning, Brian, and thanks for the kind words. But, yeah,
3:00
Speaker 2: I took a look at the documents. Chief Washington case
3:03
Speaker 2: after the Sixth Circuit decision came down, I was kind
3:08
Speaker 2: of confused about where the case actually stood based on
3:12
Speaker 2: the ruling, and there's a lot more to go on
3:14
Speaker 2: that case. But what surprised me is that according to
3:19
Speaker 2: the Sixth Circuit and the evidence that they looked at,
3:24
Speaker 2: Cheryl Long was advised by the law department that Chief
3:28
Speaker 2: Washington required a hearing of a predisposition hearing before any
3:35
Speaker 2: action was taken.
3:36
Speaker 1: Is this pursuant to a collective bargaining? Because he's not
3:39
Speaker 1: part of the collective bargaining.
3:40
Speaker 2: No, it's part of the charter.
3:42
Speaker 1: The city charter.
3:43
Speaker 2: That's right.
3:44
Speaker 1: It says you got to give an administrative hearing. It's
3:46
Speaker 1: like due process, right? Before firing someone, you need to
3:49
Speaker 1: have a conversation about it.
3:51
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And if she had not given him
3:55
Speaker 2: a predisposition hearing by mistake, this probably would not be
4:00
Speaker 2: an issue. But She ignored, actually rejected the law department's
4:07
Speaker 2: guidance and fired him anyway.
4:10
Speaker 1: And let's remind the listening audience, and even me, she's
4:13
Speaker 1: not an attorney. No. This isn't an independent legal analysis
4:18
Speaker 1: by a professional in the field. No. This is Cheryl
4:21
Speaker 1: Long saying, I don't want to listen to the legal department.
4:23
Speaker 2: Right. So apparently when she was deposed during the litigation—
4:31
Speaker 2: They asked her, well, why did you ignore the law
4:35
Speaker 2: department's guidance? And she said, because I chose not to.
4:41
Speaker 2: It was my choice or something like that. It was
4:43
Speaker 2: not your choice.
4:44
Speaker 1: The buck stops here.
4:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, yeah, that's got her in hot water. She
4:49
Speaker 2: could be held personally liable for any damages that the
4:52
Speaker 2: case results in.
4:53
Speaker 1: And, you know, talking to Christopher Smith and understanding the
4:56
Speaker 1: nature of the suit that he was terminated without cause.
4:59
Speaker 1: I mean, have you ever, in your review of the facts,
5:01
Speaker 1: the statistics, everything that goes on in connection with the
5:03
Speaker 1: firing of Police Chief Washington, did they ever find a
5:06
Speaker 1: reason that would justify termination?
5:09
Speaker 2: Well, that's what the rest of the case, going back
5:11
Speaker 2: to the district court, that's what the district court is
5:15
Speaker 2: going to have to determine. There's going to be a trial.
5:17
Speaker 2: So unless there's a settlement that's reached, it's going to
5:20
Speaker 2: go to trial. And the whole point of that trial
5:22
Speaker 2: is to determine whether the city had cause to do it.
5:25
Speaker 2: And based on what I saw, it's a pretty weak case.
5:29
Speaker 1: Well, and to date, I haven't heard anyone say specifically
5:32
Speaker 1: what he has done or what he did wrong. And
5:35
Speaker 1: it's always a big, wait a minute. Why did she
5:38
Speaker 1: fire Chief Washington in the first place? I mean, what motivated?
5:41
Speaker 1: He's a black chief of police. I mean, this seems
5:44
Speaker 1: to be like the poster child for what the city
5:47
Speaker 1: of Cincinnati wants, you know? A good, strong, educated, great
5:50
Speaker 1: black guy. He's running things. He's taking charge. That's what
5:54
Speaker 1: we want.
5:55
Speaker 2: Well, from what I could figure, there was some problem
5:59
Speaker 2: with the treatment of female firefighters in the fire department,
6:03
Speaker 2: even before Chief Washington became the chief. And I guess
6:09
Speaker 2: there were consistent complaints or something like that. And so
6:14
Speaker 2: that caused the city manager to bring in somebody to
6:20
Speaker 2: do some training. And the person that they brought in
6:24
Speaker 2: to do the training was was the organization called Women
6:28
Speaker 2: Helping Women. So right off the bat, you have a
6:32
Speaker 2: women's advocacy group come in to do training. And based
6:39
Speaker 2: on my experience, when you bring a trainer in like that,
6:43
Speaker 2: they sit down with the person that brought them in.
6:45
Speaker 2: They say, okay, what do you want out of this training?
6:48
Speaker 2: And lo and behold, they spend the training trashing Chief Washington.
6:53
Speaker 1: Even though he wasn't responsible for the practices and procedures
6:56
Speaker 1: that led up to this sort of involvement with Women
6:58
Speaker 1: Helping Women.
6:59
Speaker 2: Well, that's what the district court is going to have
7:00
Speaker 2: to determine. But as it turns out, Women Helping Women
7:05
Speaker 2: has gotten like $ 1. 5 million from the city over the
7:10
Speaker 2: past four or five years in leverage support. And the
7:16
Speaker 2: salary of the head of Women Helping Women went from
7:20
Speaker 2: like less than, About $ 100, 000, or I can't remember the
7:27
Speaker 2: exact number, but four years ago she was making somewhere $ 150, 000,
7:34
Speaker 2: $ 170, 000 a year. Now she's making over $ 200, 000 a year,
7:38
Speaker 2: and her salary has gone up. Women helping women's contributions
7:44
Speaker 2: from the city have totaled over a million dollars now,
7:47
Speaker 2: and that's the group that Cheryl Long brought in to
7:51
Speaker 2: assess Chief Washington's And that's called weaponizing your trainer.
7:57
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I would say it's very, very accurately stated, weaponizing. Well,
8:01
Speaker 1: since they've been hired and receiving money from the taxpayers
8:04
Speaker 1: of the city of Cincinnati via Cheryl Longwood, that accurately
8:07
Speaker 1: describes an NGO, right? Non-governmental organization, outside group doing the
8:10
Speaker 1: work of government. Right. What else were these women helping
8:13
Speaker 1: women advocates doing that would deserve this annual paycheck? Well.
8:18
Speaker 2: They provide a lot of good services to women who
8:21
Speaker 2: are in trouble in their marriages or relationships or whatever.
8:25
Speaker 2: It's some place for women to go to get that
8:27
Speaker 2: kind of help.
8:28
Speaker 1: So they have some value.
8:30
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. I think they do have some value.
8:32
Speaker 1: Listen, I'm just looking for the info here.
8:34
Speaker 2: But training the fire department staff probably was not right
8:40
Speaker 2: up their alley.
8:41
Speaker 1: I would imagine not.
8:42
Speaker 2: So if I were looking into it, I would dig
8:45
Speaker 2: into that quite a bit.
8:47
Speaker 1: All right. So are you able to trace the percentage
8:50
Speaker 1: of the dollars paid to Women Helping Women for all
8:53
Speaker 1: the services, the percentage that went to them sort of rethinking,
8:56
Speaker 1: reimagining the fire department?
8:59
Speaker 2: No, I haven't dug in that far, and I don't
9:02
Speaker 2: even know if the records would exist that would help
9:04
Speaker 2: us do that.
9:04
Speaker 1: Todd Zinser, as you've demonstrated time after time after time
9:07
Speaker 1: for the years you've been doing this, no, those records
9:09
Speaker 1: do not exist. Really, are there any follow-up with any
9:13
Speaker 1: NGO about what they actually accomplished with the money they've
9:16
Speaker 1: been awarded to them?
9:16
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny, Brian, because the budget committee came back
9:20
Speaker 2: from summer break Tuesday. And the first thing they did
9:25
Speaker 2: was go through that type of funding for all these NGOs.
9:29
Speaker 2: And it was a, as you would say, an excrement show.
9:35
Speaker 2: They were fighting over $ 300, 000, what to do with this
9:37
Speaker 2: $ 300, 000 that was left over from 2024 for homeless people
9:38
Speaker 2: or something like that. And this was not one for
9:49
Speaker 2: all and all for one. This was a little bit
9:50
Speaker 2: of a Donnybrook and, it was all over $ 300, 000. Meanwhile,
9:57
Speaker 2: people like Women Helping Women, we're giving money to them
10:01
Speaker 2: where their CEO's getting $ 250, 000 a year.
10:04
Speaker 1: And we're still paying Iris Rowley too, right?
10:07
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
10:08
Speaker 1: We'll dive into some of these numbers with Todd Zinser
10:10
Speaker 1: coming up. We're also going to talk about, wait, what
10:11
Speaker 1: about that railroad money? And yes, the streetcar numbers are in.
10:16
Speaker 1: And I Kind of curious to know whether they're going
10:18
Speaker 1: to be building that next leg, which a lot of
10:20
Speaker 1: people are still talking about, believe it or not. 716
10:23
Speaker 1: right now. 55KRC, the talk station. Fasten pro roofing. You know,
10:26
Speaker 1: I'm really... The talk station. 720, 55KRC, the talk station.
10:32
Speaker 1: Happy Friday Eve. First off.
10:36
Speaker 1: No, I have never said I am perfect. I have
10:37
Speaker 1: never said anything along the lines of what Rush Limbaugh said.
10:39
Speaker 1: Always 100% right. I make mistakes all the time. So
10:42
Speaker 1: let me clear the record up here. And this is
10:44
Speaker 1: exactly why I don't go back and listen to what
10:46
Speaker 1: I said on the radio at any prior day. Because
10:48
Speaker 1: I walk around, how did I say that? I screwed
10:51
Speaker 1: up or I should have put it this way and
10:52
Speaker 1: I forgot to follow through. That is a frustration I
10:55
Speaker 1: cannot handle. So once it's out there, it's out there
10:58
Speaker 1: in the ether. Go ahead and make fun of me.
10:59
Speaker 1: First off, apologies to Fasten Pro Roofing. I actually got
11:03
Speaker 1: the phone numbers memorized. I read the Foreign Exchange Westchester
11:07
Speaker 1: phone number. So don't call that number unless you want
11:11
Speaker 1: to get your car fixed. 774-9495 is the number for
11:14
Speaker 1: Fasten Pro Roofing. Good morning, Ray and Amanda. And again,
11:18
Speaker 1: apologies for that. The other thing is, and thank you, Chip,
11:20
Speaker 1: who shot me a Facebook message. You repeatedly saying police
11:23
Speaker 1: chief when you talk about former fire chief Washington. Thank you, Chip.
11:27
Speaker 1: Record corrected. So. Todd Zinsser's in studio. We're diving on
11:31
Speaker 1: through these issues. We pivoted over to non-governmental organizations, apparently
11:35
Speaker 1: a wrestling match over $ 300, 000. But what is the collective
11:41
Speaker 1: payments collectively, all sum total of non-governmental organizations? How much
11:46
Speaker 1: money are they collectively getting from the taxpayers?
11:48
Speaker 2: Well, they've got it in three different buckets. They have
11:50
Speaker 2: what they call leverage support. That's about $ 12 million. They've got–
11:54
Speaker 2: or I take that back. It's less than $ 12 million.
11:57
Speaker 2: What $ 12 million is is contracts– that they have with
12:00
Speaker 2: some of these NGOs. And actually, I'm going to have
12:03
Speaker 2: to refer to my paperwork here if I can find it.
12:07
Speaker 2: But it's substantial. And the problem is that they present
12:14
Speaker 2: it as competitive grants, but last year I did an
12:18
Speaker 2: analysis that showed there was about 20 of these NGOs
12:22
Speaker 2: that get the same amount of money every year for
12:25
Speaker 2: seven years And that's the way the city council, that's
12:31
Speaker 2: the way they roll. And they've got a list of
12:33
Speaker 2: favored NGOs, and that's who gets the money.
12:36
Speaker 1: So maybe you can pick an illustration. So NGO out there,
12:40
Speaker 1: they've been doing this for years and years. They get
12:43
Speaker 1: a guarantee of seven years' worth of work? Is that
12:44
Speaker 1: the way I heard that?
12:46
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if they're guaranteed, but they've gotten
12:48
Speaker 2: it consistently for seven years in a row.
12:50
Speaker 1: So once you are handpicked by Cheryl Long, say, or
12:54
Speaker 1: Aftab Parval, or some collective combination of them, You've met
12:58
Speaker 1: their barrier. You have made the grade. So the likelihood
13:01
Speaker 1: of you continuing getting a continual cash stream down the
13:04
Speaker 1: road from the taxpayers is pretty solid based upon what
13:06
Speaker 1: your research is.
13:07
Speaker 2: Yes, no question.
13:09
Speaker 1: At any point in time, since this is the selected group,
13:12
Speaker 1: apparently better than all the others in a competitive bidding process.
13:15
Speaker 1: That's the way it's supposed to work. Do they follow
13:18
Speaker 1: up to see if whatever task was assigned to the NGO,
13:21
Speaker 1: the reason they're getting money, that that work actually got
13:24
Speaker 1: done or that they can demonstrate that they actually performed
13:27
Speaker 1: some labor in connection to achieving that goal?
13:30
Speaker 2: I would say no.
13:32
Speaker 1: That's what an inspector general does, right?
13:33
Speaker 2: Yes. In fact, the internal auditor, for example, has done
13:37
Speaker 2: one audit of one of these NGOs over the past
13:40
Speaker 2: several years, one. And even that one, it was called
13:45
Speaker 2: the Regional Economic Development Initiative. they get like $ 200, 000 or
13:52
Speaker 2: $ 250, 000 a year. The internal auditor went in there a
13:54
Speaker 2: couple years ago, and they concluded that their records were
13:58
Speaker 2: in such poor shape that they couldn't even audit it.
14:00
Speaker 1: Wow, it's kind of like America's military.
14:02
Speaker 2: And at the same time, they identified a $ 14, 000 shortage.
14:06
Speaker 2: And when I saw that, I went down to city council,
14:10
Speaker 2: and I said, you guys should make sure that Ready,
14:13
Speaker 2: is what it's called, of They follow up with the
14:17
Speaker 2: recommendations and they get to the bottom of that shortage
14:19
Speaker 2: before you give them any more money. Well, they got
14:23
Speaker 2: their money anyway. But that's the way the city council
14:28
Speaker 2: handles these things. So the total number of organizations that
14:35
Speaker 2: get money from the city, I counted almost 250 different
14:39
Speaker 2: NGOs involved. that got money one way or another. And
14:46
Speaker 2: the problem you have is you have organizations that get
14:49
Speaker 2: money at the top level, and then they also distribute
14:54
Speaker 2: money down to subrecipients. And when I saw all that,
15:00
Speaker 2: just the alarms went off. And in fact, in July,
15:04
Speaker 2: I sent a letter to the city's external auditor, and
15:08
Speaker 2: I listed seven areas where I thought the internal controls
15:12
Speaker 2: of the city needed some examination by the financial statement
15:17
Speaker 2: auditor because part of the financial statement audit is to
15:20
Speaker 2: look at the city's internal controls and how they're set
15:23
Speaker 2: up against fraud, waste, and abuse. So I sent a
15:28
Speaker 2: 48-page letter to the external auditor listing seven areas, providing
15:33
Speaker 2: copies of all of my work that I've done over
15:35
Speaker 2: the past year, asking them to look at these areas.
15:40
Speaker 2: And one of them, the first one, was lack of
15:43
Speaker 2: oversight over external spending. So I don't know whether they'll
15:47
Speaker 2: look at that or not, but that is a target-rich environment.
15:51
Speaker 1: So at least as things stand currently under your perception, NGO,
15:56
Speaker 1: just widget, NGO gets $ 500, 000. They are taking that allocation
16:03
Speaker 1: and then handing it out to subgroups.
16:06
Speaker 2: Some of them are, yes.
16:07
Speaker 1: Now, Do we know those subgroups? Have they been identified?
16:11
Speaker 1: Because what I'm thinking is there's this whole reality that
16:15
Speaker 1: NGOs quite often will take the money that they get
16:18
Speaker 1: and be advocates for the politicians that give them the money.
16:21
Speaker 1: They'll do canvassing. They'll do campaigning.
16:23
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
16:23
Speaker 1: So that could be very well going on right now.
16:26
Speaker 2: Absolutely that's going on. To look at these fights that
16:31
Speaker 2: go on in city council over this amount of money
16:34
Speaker 2: for several years. NGOs, that process, that leverage support process
16:41
Speaker 2: is so important to these city council members, and you
16:44
Speaker 2: have to wonder why. I mean, a lot of the
16:46
Speaker 2: NGOs do very good work, but we really don't know.
16:50
Speaker 1: That sums it up. We really don't know. That's terrible.
16:55
Speaker 1: That is a failure by elected officials, a failure. Nefarious. Nefarious. Probably.
17:02
Speaker 1: But see, they could clear the air. They could say, no, no, no,
17:04
Speaker 1: it's not nefarious. Here, we did the paperwork. We followed
17:06
Speaker 1: up where the money went. Here's all the receipts, as
17:08
Speaker 1: we like to say. And so you're wrong. They can't
17:10
Speaker 1: do that right now.
17:12
Speaker 2: No, they can't do that. And let me give you
17:14
Speaker 2: just one other example. Talking about the budget committee meeting
17:18
Speaker 2: the other day, they're fighting over $ 300, 000. Meanwhile, they're giving
17:24
Speaker 2: a quarter of a million dollars to an organization over
17:27
Speaker 2: the past, I don't know, seven years, whose CEO- earns
17:32
Speaker 2: like $ 250, 000, $ 300, 000. Why are we giving money at that
17:37
Speaker 2: level to organizations that are able to pay their CEOs
17:42
Speaker 2: that amount of money? And that particular NGO, the mayor
17:48
Speaker 2: sits on its board of directors.
17:50
Speaker 1: Well, as I stare, you're wondering why I'm looking off
17:53
Speaker 1: into the distance. I'm not. I'm looking at the monitor
17:55
Speaker 1: attached to which is the list of the Cincinnati Public
17:59
Speaker 1: School administration salaries. So That $ 200, 000 annual salary for that NGO,
18:05
Speaker 1: that guy's a piker. Look at what they're making over
18:07
Speaker 1: at the Cincinnati Public Schools, Todd Zinser.
18:09
Speaker 2: Look at what Cheryl Long makes.
18:10
Speaker 1: Oh, my word. How much?
18:12
Speaker 2: $ 300, 000. Over $ 300, 000.
18:13
Speaker 1: Getting you banged for your buck, voters? 730 on 55KRC,
18:16
Speaker 1: the talk station.
18:17
Speaker 2: 732, 55KRC, the talk station.
18:20
Speaker 1: He is the Citizen Watchdog. Find him on Facebook. Todd Zinsser,
18:26
Speaker 1: Citizen Watchdog. Check out the podcast he does. Joe Strecker
18:29
Speaker 1: produces that one, too. He's a good producer for podcasts.
18:31
Speaker 1: Todd Zinsser, we were talking about these non-governmental organizations. And
18:35
Speaker 1: since we have no paper trail, they do not tell
18:37
Speaker 1: us where the money went. This is the big absence
18:39
Speaker 1: of accountability that we are left with the perception that, oh, gee,
18:44
Speaker 1: maybe the money is being used for nefarious purposes, like
18:46
Speaker 1: for campaigning for politicians that hand the money out. Question.
18:51
Speaker 1: If you had the receipts, if some organization that gets
18:55
Speaker 1: the allocation one of these million dollar you know checks
18:58
Speaker 1: that are written out with taxpayer dollars and you knew
19:01
Speaker 1: that some of that money or you could show that
19:04
Speaker 1: some of that money went toward campaigning is that i
19:10
Speaker 1: mean unethical clearly not what taxpayer dollars are expected to
19:14
Speaker 1: be used for clearly but is it Against the charter,
19:18
Speaker 1: is it unlawful? Would it be perceived to be a
19:20
Speaker 1: misuse of funds because what they were charged to do
19:23
Speaker 1: with the money is a different goal than campaigning? I mean,
19:28
Speaker 1: what is your take on the legality if that was revealed?
19:31
Speaker 2: Well, I think the first problem you have is that
19:34
Speaker 2: many of these grants are just basic operating subsidies. So
19:42
Speaker 2: the NGO has a budget of X number of dollars.
19:46
Speaker 2: And in order to fill some funding gap.
19:48
Speaker 1: Some of it's city dollars.
19:50
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
19:50
Speaker 1: Money's fungible. It sits in a big pile. Oh, no,
19:53
Speaker 1: we didn't use that money for campaigning. That was this
19:56
Speaker 1: portion of the savings account.
19:58
Speaker 2: That's right.
19:58
Speaker 1: Like they in their head are separating the dollars.
20:00
Speaker 2: That's right. So if the grant had specific deliverables attached
20:04
Speaker 2: to it, which a lot of them do not. Then
20:08
Speaker 2: you could get some traction and try to hold them accountable.
20:11
Speaker 2: But a lot of this is just operating subsidies.
20:14
Speaker 1: Specific deliverables, i.e., you need to accomplish this particular task. Right.
20:19
Speaker 1: So in the absence of a specific deliverable, what is
20:22
Speaker 1: the organization receiving money for if it isn't written down?
20:25
Speaker 2: They're good works. They're good works, Brian.
20:27
Speaker 1: Just general good works.
20:28
Speaker 2: That's my understanding, yeah.
20:30
Speaker 1: Kumbha freaking ya there, Todd Zinser.
20:33
Speaker 2: Yes.
20:35
Speaker 1: This is heartbreaking.
20:37
Speaker 2: Well, it's reality.
20:38
Speaker 1: I know, but I express frustration over this, but just
20:41
Speaker 1: to know that it is so... You've done a lot
20:45
Speaker 1: of research to reveal this, but in doing your research,
20:48
Speaker 1: you're relying on things that are right out in the open.
20:52
Speaker 1: Anybody who chose to do the work that you're doing
20:55
Speaker 1: could easily find this, well, I would say absence of
20:58
Speaker 1: information and absence of accountability.
21:01
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I'm hoping that Citi's Financial Statement Auditor
21:04
Speaker 2: will take note of some of these things and put
21:06
Speaker 2: it in their report.
21:08
Speaker 1: Well, is this just beyond the intellectual capacity of, say,
21:11
Speaker 1: a local journalist?
21:14
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be.
21:15
Speaker 1: Thank you. Todd Zinser. We'll continue with Todd Zinser at
21:18
Speaker 1: 735 right now, 55KRC, the talk station. Let me talk
21:23
Speaker 1: about Dr. Fred Peck.
21:26
Speaker 2: The talk station. 739, 55KRC, the talk station.
21:31
Speaker 1: Miracles can be big, and they can be really, really tiny.
21:33
Speaker 1: Just experienced a tiny miracle today because we were getting
21:35
Speaker 1: ready to Todd Zinser's in-studio, our citizen watchdog, pivoting over
21:38
Speaker 1: to a new topic of conversation, channeling Dave Williams from
21:41
Speaker 1: the Taxpayer Protection Alliance, who loves to make fun of
21:44
Speaker 1: and joke about the stupidity of streetcars. We're going to
21:47
Speaker 1: dive into that topic. And just as the mic came on,
21:50
Speaker 1: I looked up my Facebook feed. It just popped up.
21:54
Speaker 1: Some post from like nine hours ago with two guys
21:57
Speaker 1: standing in front of the streetcar, I can't believe it's
21:59
Speaker 1: been 10 years since we opened the Cincinnati streetcar. Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah, whatever.
22:04
Speaker 1: Didn't work out as well as they're saying, did it,
22:05
Speaker 1: Todd Zinser?
22:07
Speaker 2: Well, Brian, I think the first indication that perhaps the
22:10
Speaker 2: streetcar hasn't been that successful is because 10 years later
22:13
Speaker 2: we're still asking that question.
22:15
Speaker 1: Yeah.
22:16
Speaker 2: And when I saw the 10-year milestone mark, I thought, well,
22:21
Speaker 2: maybe I'll dig into this and see what this is
22:23
Speaker 2: all about because I wasn't here when all the thrashing
22:26
Speaker 2: and arguments occurred, and I thought I'd look into it.
22:31
Speaker 1: John Cranley tried to put his foot down.
22:32
Speaker 2: I did see that. Yeah. And what I found is
22:38
Speaker 2: that these claims of economic benefit of the streetcar, they're
22:45
Speaker 2: totally exaggerated.
22:46
Speaker 1: Oh, really?
22:47
Speaker 2: There's no support for it. And just yesterday, I think,
22:51
Speaker 2: on WVXU, they had a little panel, and both the
22:59
Speaker 2: father of the streetcar and Mark Jeffries are touting $ 1. 4
23:04
Speaker 2: billion of economic benefit.
23:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw that. You know what I immediately said
23:08
Speaker 1: when I read that, wherever it was reported, Enquirer, local news,
23:10
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. I thought to myself, I remember a whole
23:16
Speaker 1: bunch bunch of projects already in development before they laid
23:20
Speaker 1: the first track of streetcar before it was even approved
23:22
Speaker 1: that's right and i've always attributed it and i give
23:24
Speaker 1: them props for redeveloping and and cleaning up washington park
23:28
Speaker 1: right right across from music hall it's a gorgeous park
23:31
Speaker 1: right whatever money they put into that i think it
23:33
Speaker 1: had a great roi because the neighborhood got cleaned up
23:35
Speaker 1: cops started showing up there they got rid of the
23:37
Speaker 1: drugs and everybody started investing around washington park shocking.
23:40
Speaker 2: Yeah so i think the streetcar advocates need to go
23:44
Speaker 2: back to high school statistics and refresh the difference between
23:49
Speaker 2: causation and correlation. Because, yeah, there's been development around the streetcar.
23:57
Speaker 1: They failed that area of mathematics and were allowed to
23:59
Speaker 1: move forward to the next grade anyway, Todd.
24:01
Speaker 2: Right. So I went and found a report that the
24:05
Speaker 2: Federal Transit Administration issued in 2018 that And it looked
24:11
Speaker 2: at five different circulators in the country that they funded,
24:15
Speaker 2: including Cincinnati. And they used- Street cars. Street cars.
24:18
Speaker 1: What did I say?
24:19
Speaker 2: Circulators.
24:20
Speaker 1: No, I know that's what they call it. That's a
24:22
Speaker 1: college term for it. You mean street car? Yeah, that's
24:24
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about.
24:25
Speaker 2: So they used a lot of econometric modeling for their study.
24:31
Speaker 2: And with respect to the economic benefits of Cincinnati street car,
24:38
Speaker 2: the best they could say is that They could not disentangle.
24:41
Speaker 2: They said the fact that they put the streetcar in
24:44
Speaker 2: an area that was already well underway in terms of redevelopment,
24:50
Speaker 2: you cannot disentangle the effect or the impact of the
24:53
Speaker 2: streetcar in terms of economic benefits.
24:57
Speaker 1: So you reach around and you dig deep into your
24:59
Speaker 1: sphincter and you pull out $ 1. 4 billion and use that
25:02
Speaker 1: as a figure.
25:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, based on the WVXU interviewer's thing yesterday, They cited
25:10
Speaker 2: some kind of urban forward group or something like that.
25:12
Speaker 1: Oh, an NGO paid by the taxpayers?
25:14
Speaker 2: Well, an NGO whose only mission in life is to
25:19
Speaker 2: promote urban transit, they chose them to do their study.
25:25
Speaker 2: But those are the kind of things that the city
25:28
Speaker 2: is notorious. I mean, just go back to the Farmer
25:30
Speaker 2: Music Center. They claim that that's going to have all
25:33
Speaker 2: kinds of economic benefit. Meanwhile, we have a dozen other
25:36
Speaker 2: music venues that And what I presented to the city
25:40
Speaker 2: council is, how are you going to determine the impact
25:44
Speaker 2: of Farmer Music Center when you have all these other
25:48
Speaker 2: music venues?
25:49
Speaker 1: And we love competition, don't we, Todd Zinzer?
25:51
Speaker 2: Yes, we do.
25:52
Speaker 1: Which means the more music venues there are to choose from,
25:54
Speaker 1: the lower price you're going to get as a music
25:56
Speaker 1: venue for bringing some act to town. Because the guy
26:00
Speaker 1: next door at the other music venue will undercut your cost.
26:03
Speaker 2: Right. It's like the proportionality. the proponents of a new
26:07
Speaker 2: sports arena, they assumed that the existing arena was going
26:12
Speaker 2: to go away.
26:12
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's still there.
26:15
Speaker 2: And it's not going to go away. And the owners
26:16
Speaker 2: of that said that.
26:18
Speaker 1: I still call it the Coliseum.
26:21
Speaker 2: I agree. That's how I view it. That's how I
26:23
Speaker 2: remember it.
26:24
Speaker 1: So on my first concert there, I used to go
26:25
Speaker 1: to the Stingers game when my parents would take us,
26:28
Speaker 1: the old hockey days in the 70s.
26:29
Speaker 2: I was there for that Who's concert.
26:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, Coliseum. And it's still there. Shocking. Todd Zinser, on
26:34
Speaker 1: the railroad, I asked you earlier, if you were a
26:36
Speaker 1: betting man, where would you put your stack of chips
26:38
Speaker 1: on there being another leg to the streetcar? He said
26:41
Speaker 1: that's never going to happen.
26:42
Speaker 2: No, I would not bet on that at all. Because
26:46
Speaker 2: if you look at the cost, I mean, if this
26:48
Speaker 2: streetcar costs $ 150 million in 2006, you can imagine how
26:50
Speaker 2: much it's going to cost in— 2016, I guess. 2016,
26:53
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. See, I do it, you do it. But
27:03
Speaker 2: the costs are going to be astronomical. And you look
27:06
Speaker 2: at the people that are advocating that they're not paying
27:10
Speaker 2: attention to the city's budget. They're not paying attention to
27:13
Speaker 2: the state's budget. They're not paying attention to the federal budget.
27:18
Speaker 2: It's just very, very unlikely that that's ever going to happen.
27:21
Speaker 1: Well, and they're blaming the Trump administration because apparently the
27:24
Speaker 1: this is members of city council, the mayor, whoever might
27:27
Speaker 1: advocate for an extra leg, the streetcar advocates that are
27:29
Speaker 1: getting taxpayer dollars to advocate for the streetcar. You can't
27:32
Speaker 1: blame Trump. Biden didn't approve any money, federal money coming
27:35
Speaker 1: in for an extra leg.
27:36
Speaker 2: Well, what bothered me is that the mayor said that, yeah,
27:40
Speaker 2: it's never going to happen. This administration isn't friendly towards
27:43
Speaker 2: these kind of projects, but we're not standing still. We've
27:47
Speaker 2: got our bus rapid transit. I guess he doesn't understand
27:52
Speaker 2: that the same program that would fund a streetcar expansion
27:56
Speaker 2: has funded Cincinnati's bus rapid transit system to the tune
28:01
Speaker 2: of $ 250 million. And that's 70 to 80% of the
28:06
Speaker 2: cost of the systems. And if you compare it to
28:09
Speaker 2: the streetcar, the federal contribution to the streetcar was about 30%
28:14
Speaker 2: of the costs, and it was only $ 45 million. And
28:18
Speaker 2: so here, Mr. Perval is criticizing the current administration when
28:24
Speaker 2: they're going to get $ 250 million from the current administration.
28:28
Speaker 2: And it's outrageous. And I kind of hope nobody picks
28:31
Speaker 2: up the phone and calls the Secretary of Transportation and say, hey, Mr.
28:35
Speaker 2: Perval was sitting there criticizing the current administration while you're
28:40
Speaker 2: pending your distribution of that $ 250 million.
28:44
Speaker 1: It sounds like Todd Zender just assigned a task to
28:47
Speaker 1: some listeners who might be inclined to make that phone call. Todd,
28:50
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, your impish behavior. It's wonderful. That's kind
28:53
Speaker 1: of in line with something I might say, had I
28:55
Speaker 1: thought it up. That's why we have you Citizen Watchdog.
28:57
Speaker 1: We've got a couple more minutes with Todd Zinser in
28:59
Speaker 1: studio at 747 right now. F55KRC, the talk station. Foreign
29:03
Speaker 1: Exchange going to be there on Monday. Get my transmission
29:05
Speaker 1: fluid changed. Yep. Really enjoying this hour with Todd Zinser,
29:09
Speaker 1: Citizen Watchdog in studio, going through all the shenanigans in
29:12
Speaker 1: downtown Cincinnati. And you come with some, obviously, street credibility
29:16
Speaker 1: with this, having been an inspector general. For the Department
29:18
Speaker 1: of Transportation, where you did work on transit project IG work.
29:22
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
29:23
Speaker 1: You've been through the paperwork. You know what they're supposed
29:24
Speaker 1: to do. You can follow the numbers. Okay, fine. So
29:27
Speaker 1: it's credibility. It's not just I'm an inspector general. I
29:29
Speaker 1: know what documents are, say. But I've dealt with this
29:32
Speaker 1: type of project many times in the past. Considering we
29:37
Speaker 1: were just talking about street cars it's on rails what
29:39
Speaker 1: about the railroad money todd zinzer um i know you've
29:42
Speaker 1: identified some serious problems with this in the past here
29:44
Speaker 1: in the morning show but what's what's your boil down
29:46
Speaker 1: status of the railroad money.
29:48
Speaker 2: Well the problem i've just the problem i found is
29:51
Speaker 2: that you recall that the city is having a lot
29:55
Speaker 2: of problems spending the money They're not spending the money
29:57
Speaker 2: in a timely way.
29:58
Speaker 1: They queue up a project, they identify a project, and
30:01
Speaker 1: they allocate a dollar sign to it. But then apparently
30:05
Speaker 1: nothing happens after that.
30:06
Speaker 2: Well, very little happens after that. So what are they
30:09
Speaker 2: doing with the unspent money? They get money from the
30:12
Speaker 2: railroad trust every quarter.
30:13
Speaker 1: It comes in.
30:15
Speaker 2: They're not paying any bills with it or very few
30:18
Speaker 2: bills with it. So what are they doing with it?
30:19
Speaker 1: Putting in an interest-bearing account to generate revenue.
30:22
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.
30:23
Speaker 1: Which is where the money should stay over at the
30:25
Speaker 1: railroad trust fund so it continues to generate more interest
30:28
Speaker 1: and revenue until such time as they're ready to spend it.
30:30
Speaker 2: That's right. That's my recommendation to the board.
30:33
Speaker 1: Now, who can argue with that?
30:35
Speaker 2: Well, they're all arguing with that. But here's the thing, Brian.
30:40
Speaker 2: It goes into the investment pool of the city. I mean,
30:43
Speaker 2: that's not ideal, but okay, that's legal. And they have
30:48
Speaker 2: a number of restricted funds where they have to keep
30:50
Speaker 2: track of all. What comes in and what goes out
30:53
Speaker 2: and how much those restricted funds earn, well, they're not
30:56
Speaker 2: treating the railroad money like a restricted fund like they should.
30:59
Speaker 2: What they're doing is it goes into the investment pool,
31:03
Speaker 2: and that's the end of the accountability of the railroad money.
31:07
Speaker 1: And so let me ask you this. Are there any
31:09
Speaker 1: limitations on the interest generated in the investment pool? Can
31:12
Speaker 1: they choose it for whatever they want? In other words,
31:14
Speaker 1: could they put that money, the interest generated, toward, oh,
31:17
Speaker 1: I don't know, new projects, as opposed to existing infrastructure,
31:21
Speaker 1: which they're limited to with the railroad money.
31:22
Speaker 2: Well, that's the exact point, because the interest earned on
31:26
Speaker 2: the railroad money that's deposited into the investment account is
31:30
Speaker 2: going into the general fund, and the general fund they
31:33
Speaker 2: can use for whatever they want. So I'm going down
31:38
Speaker 2: to City Hall today, and I'm going to point that out.
31:41
Speaker 1: Go ahead. I was just telling Joe to hit the
31:42
Speaker 1: shenanigans down there.
31:44
Speaker 2: So I'm going down to City Hall today to raise
31:47
Speaker 2: that issue with them because it's just not right.
31:51
Speaker 1: They're not going to answer your questions, Todd. No, but—
31:53
Speaker 1: They're going to sit on their cell phones while you
31:56
Speaker 1: are asking legitimate questions. I'm just going to ignore you
31:58
Speaker 1: and then ask the next guy to stand.
31:59
Speaker 2: Up and speak. Well, I'm going downtown today. I'm going
32:02
Speaker 2: to the railroad board next week. They have their quarterly
32:04
Speaker 2: meeting next week. And I also sent this issue as
32:08
Speaker 2: a follow-up to the external auditor— because I think they
32:13
Speaker 2: would be able to determine whether this is appropriate or not.
32:16
Speaker 2: So I don't have that authority or a way to
32:19
Speaker 2: do that. So I've referred it to the external auditor
32:22
Speaker 2: as well.
32:22
Speaker 1: Okay. Well, you have informed here, Todd Zinsser, to the
32:25
Speaker 1: extent you get any answers to any questions, it's going
32:28
Speaker 1: to be a first, I think. So you're welcome to
32:30
Speaker 1: come back in or call in and let us know
32:31
Speaker 1: exactly what happened.
32:33
Speaker 2: All right.
32:33
Speaker 1: I'm very excited to hear what the external auditor has
32:35
Speaker 1: to say because, well, real quick here, I, But external
32:39
Speaker 1: suggests that they are independent of the political reality within
32:44
Speaker 1: the city council, the mayor, and the city manager's office.
32:47
Speaker 2: That's the way it's supposed to work, yes.
32:48
Speaker 1: And do you perceive them to be truly sort of
32:51
Speaker 1: apolitical in doing their research, or you haven't been able
32:53
Speaker 1: to draw a conclusion yet?
32:54
Speaker 2: Well, they're a reputable audit firm. Okay. But they've been
32:58
Speaker 2: working for the city for many years.
33:00
Speaker 1: Well, like everybody else is getting money.
33:02
Speaker 2: In those situations, what should happen is that the audit
33:04
Speaker 2: firm will rotate the people that are actually on the audit,
33:08
Speaker 2: and the audit manager should be rotated so that they
33:11
Speaker 2: don't get too cozy with the audit subject. So I
33:13
Speaker 2: don't know whether any of that's going on or not.
33:16
Speaker 1: Well done, Todd Zinsser. As always, keep up the great work. And,
33:19
Speaker 1: you know, there's a bunch of taxpayers in downtown Cincinnati
33:21
Speaker 1: who don't realize that what you are doing is for
33:23
Speaker 1: their benefit. Absolutely.
33:25
Speaker 2: Thank you, Brian.
33:27
Speaker 1: Only imagine what would happen on a federal level if
33:29
Speaker 1: it's this bad in downtown Cincinnati, fast and loose.
33:33
Speaker 2: What's sad to say is that I think it's actually
33:36
Speaker 2: better at the federal level than Cincinnati.
33:39
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
33:40
Speaker 2: Yes.
33:40
Speaker 1: That is a bold statement, which we'll end on right there.
33:43
Speaker 1: Todd Zinser, man, have a fantastic weekend, brother. We'll hopefully
33:46
Speaker 1: get you back real soon.
33:47
Speaker 2: All right.
33:47
Speaker 1: Coming up, Joe Montgomery, Patriots landing, veteran remembrance event coming
33:50
Speaker 1: up soon. He's going to talk all about that off
33:52
Speaker 1: the top of the air news. And then, yay, it's Thursday.
33:54
Speaker 1: IHeartMedia aviation expert Jay Ratliff at the bottom of the next.