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Atheism is a gateway to degeneracy | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

0:30
Speaker 1: My name is Jim. This germ Warfare The Battle of Ideas, Todd.
0:35
Speaker 1: I love your latest sub stack. It really pulled them
0:40
Speaker 1: a hot strings. Creativity is dead. It's something that I have,
0:43
Speaker 1: the one that just came out this morning, something I've
0:46
Speaker 1: been thinking about for a very long time. Somebody who
0:48
Speaker 1: I mean, I believe myself to be creative in many ways.
0:52
Speaker 1: I think most people are creative. I think it's a
0:55
Speaker 1: human characteristic. I think it's part of being human. We
0:59
Speaker 1: have they to create in many ways. Animals don't. They
1:04
Speaker 1: just know they don't.
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Speaker 2: They don't the way we do.
1:06
Speaker 1: No, yeah, I mean they do distinctively, right.
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Speaker 2: They appear to be creative. I love it when you see.
1:12
Speaker 2: I like the whole stupid thing with the elephants painting
1:15
Speaker 2: pictures and crap like that, and and even even natural
1:18
Speaker 2: instinctual stuff like building nests and the complexity that some
1:23
Speaker 2: fish you know create the same they you know. Now,
1:26
Speaker 2: I don't know this because I'm not in a fish brain,
1:29
Speaker 2: But I don't think they're being created.
1:31
Speaker 1: No, I don't.
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Speaker 2: They they're just still.
1:34
Speaker 1: I don't think that's creative. I think that's just how
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Speaker 1: they're how they're wired to survive.
1:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, right exactly. But that's that's that's the difference.
1:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, when when when when we speak about creativity,
1:47
Speaker 1: we're talking about something that is fun. It doesn't act
1:51
Speaker 1: as a survival mechanism. Playing guitar or drawing a picture
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Speaker 1: or whatever, or taking a beautiful photograph. That's creativity and
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Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't in any way aid in our survival,
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Speaker 1: which is what animals do now.
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Speaker 2: And that's a that's an interesting distinction to make. I
2:14
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of creative things we do that
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Speaker 2: that are related to our survival, Like anybody that has
2:21
Speaker 2: a profession that's creative, but the the the impulse to
2:26
Speaker 2: be creative, even if you're an accountant, you know, balancing
2:30
Speaker 2: a ledger, there's a creativity in that. It's it's like
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Speaker 2: a passionate satisfaction in moving things around and manipulating matter.
2:44
Speaker 2: I mean, if you really reduce it down to that,
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Speaker 2: and and you can't really define it, I mean you
2:51
Speaker 2: can and really really broad strokes, and you can define say,
2:54
Speaker 2: if you're an artist or a musician, you can say
2:57
Speaker 2: you can say what you just said. You know, it's
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Speaker 2: it's it's not instinctive, it's it's not based on an
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Speaker 2: action in order to survive, and it makes something that
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Speaker 2: essentially is useless, you know, it doesn't have any pragmatic use.
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Speaker 2: But I think I think that's the broad definition of it.
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Speaker 2: I think it comes down to anything that we do
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Speaker 2: that our heart is in, you know, And if that
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Speaker 2: happens to be being an accountant or or any other
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Speaker 2: activity that seems to be very very far away from
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Speaker 2: being an artist, I still think that's creative. And that's
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Speaker 2: that's what we're losing, or we're going to lose. We'll
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Speaker 2: lose the obvious creativity first, which I think we've lost
3:48
Speaker 2: quite a bit of that, or at least the importance
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Speaker 2: of it in our everyday life. I see clients all
3:55
Speaker 2: the time, and most of my clients have no creative
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Speaker 2: outlet life. They have nothing they do. That's now you
4:06
Speaker 2: you just did you say something? Because I can't hear.
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Speaker 1: You now, I'm sorry. My question is why why is creativity?
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Speaker 2: Did Well? That's a big one. I mean, you read
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Speaker 2: the article, so you kind of get some idea of it.
4:26
Speaker 2: I think what we're experiencing now that anything that diminishes
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Speaker 2: our our humanness. Our humanity I think is driven by
4:37
Speaker 2: unintentional agenda to control people. I know that sounds very
4:42
Speaker 2: you know, uh, the whole typical uh paranoia, but yeah,
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Speaker 2: it just it just makes more sense. I don't know
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Speaker 2: if people get together in a room and say, oh,
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Speaker 2: let's let's do this. But it's like the whole drive
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Speaker 2: to you know, destroy the family, need to destroy religion
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Speaker 2: and spirituality, to you know, to make people material consumers.
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Speaker 2: All of that all fits into the same kind of box.
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Speaker 2: And creativity is part of that. It's like it's one
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Speaker 2: of the just like you said to start with, it's
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Speaker 2: one of the most important human human elements of being
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Speaker 2: a human is this this concept of creativity going all
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Speaker 2: the way from art all the way to you know,
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Speaker 2: the account and example. It's like anything that is driven
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Speaker 2: by your passion and driven by your heart, I guess
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Speaker 2: is an easier way to say it as opposed to
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Speaker 2: the intellect and also as opposed to the material satisfaction
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Speaker 2: of the senses, which is where we get into things
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Speaker 2: like instant gratification and material consumption, which is the mantra
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Speaker 2: of the current humanness is to protect the body, to
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Speaker 2: to be terrified of anything that could damage it or
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Speaker 2: hurt it or kill it and to only consume, you know,
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Speaker 2: to take in acquisitions, to buy stuff, to to whatever,
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Speaker 2: and that is devoid of this creative output of expression.
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Speaker 2: It's all the other way. It's all at one way
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Speaker 2: street in or pushing things away that could hurt you
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Speaker 2: and to keep you safe.
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Speaker 1: Is that what you mean when you speak about the
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Speaker 1: dangers of what was it? What does it ter me? Used?
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Speaker 1: Passive self entertainment?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the self entertainment thing is interesting because
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Speaker 2: it has a where it's dangerous is when it's out
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Speaker 2: of balance, because self entertainment can be creative, but I
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Speaker 2: think it's it's still most self entertainment is focused on again,
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Speaker 2: is focused on the senses, is focused on bringing a
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Speaker 2: surface level encounter with the world. You know, it's not deep,
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Speaker 2: it doesn't have any depth to it. It's go out
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Speaker 2: and have fun. You know, the whole Roman circus and
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Speaker 2: bread thing. It's just too And we see this really
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Speaker 2: really clearly in the culture. It's like nobody or not nobody,
7:32
Speaker 2: but very few people I know are interested in the arts.
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Speaker 2: They're not interested in going to see a ballet or
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Speaker 2: a symphony orchestra play, or going to the art gallery
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Speaker 2: and looking at art. They're only interested in music if
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Speaker 2: it's entertaining, if they can dance to it or whatever.
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Speaker 2: I mean, it's not a deeper awareness. Now I'm not
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Speaker 2: saying that that's bad entirely. I mean it isn't. I
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Speaker 2: think that having fun and satisfying the senses and all
8:04
Speaker 2: that is part of being a human, no question. Is
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Speaker 2: just when that's that's essentially the focus is where it
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Speaker 2: runs into trouble in my in my humble opinion.
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Speaker 1: But it's right, okay. But now, I mean, historically humans
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Speaker 1: have always wanted self gratification, We've always wanted a bit
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Speaker 1: of fun. So I mean one of the tugs of war,
8:31
Speaker 1: tug of tug of wars, tugs of war, I think
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Speaker 1: is the purele that I've that I've had times, yes,
8:40
Speaker 1: that I've had over multiple times over the years, is
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Speaker 1: the term bread and circuses gets thrown around, and I
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Speaker 1: sometimes think that people thrown around too easily, because to
8:52
Speaker 1: be human also means to switch off. To switch off,
8:57
Speaker 1: you need to switch off. You need to be able
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Speaker 1: to just sit down for two hours and enjoy a
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Speaker 1: sports game or the theater or something that is completely
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Speaker 1: disconnected everything around you.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, if it was the other way around, I'd be
9:09
Speaker 2: complaining about that. It's all about balance. I remember reading
9:14
Speaker 2: a million years ago. I don't know if you're familiar
9:17
Speaker 2: with Dan Millman. He's famous for the Peaceful Warrior. He
9:23
Speaker 2: was a really hardcore athlete, a gymnast, and was in
9:26
Speaker 2: a motorcycle accent I think, and essentially broke him to pieces.
9:30
Speaker 2: And he worked his way back and I think actually
9:33
Speaker 2: performed in the Olympics, which was his dream. But anyway,
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Speaker 2: his whole One of the things he said that really
9:40
Speaker 2: struck me is he said that there's three basic, very
9:44
Speaker 2: fundamental things that were driven toward that drive us. One
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Speaker 2: is spirit, one is the body, and the other is
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Speaker 2: the intellect. And if they're in balance, for good. But
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Speaker 2: the thing that he said that really struck me, I
9:59
Speaker 2: hope he said this. Somebody's going to like say, no,
10:01
Speaker 2: we never said that, but I'm pretty sure because I
10:02
Speaker 2: was reading this book that he said that they're all
10:06
Speaker 2: three in competition with each other, that each one of
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Speaker 2: these things is going to want to be the dominant.
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Speaker 2: The intellect wants to be the dominant, the spirit does,
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Speaker 2: the body does, and so you have to as your
10:23
Speaker 2: overall arching self, you have to regulate those three things yourself,
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Speaker 2: because if you let any one of them take over,
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Speaker 2: they will take over, so you will no longer be
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Speaker 2: fully integrated, as Carl Jung would say, or individuated or
10:39
Speaker 2: self actualized, whatever words you want to use. And Jung
10:42
Speaker 2: was really big on that. He had this idea of
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Speaker 2: inferior and superior function, and he would say that we
10:47
Speaker 2: all have a natural superior function, you know, say it's
10:51
Speaker 2: the intellects, say it's as being an athlete, say it's
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Speaker 2: any number or an artist, whatever, that that's our superior function,
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Speaker 2: and that if we identify that, then we should do
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Speaker 2: work on also feeding the inferior or function in order
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Speaker 2: to pull it up so it's closer to being in balance.
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Speaker 2: You'll never get it as high as your speiri or function,
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Speaker 2: but the point is is to focus on that. So
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Speaker 2: if you're an intellect or an artistic nerd or whatever
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Speaker 2: and just go to the museum and whatnot, you should
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Speaker 2: be encouraged or you should encourage yourself to go out
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Speaker 2: and party and go have a good time and do
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Speaker 2: something just for the senses. I think the problem, obviously
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Speaker 2: is that we're much more weighted as a culture toward that,
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Speaker 2: and I think it's intentional, you know, mister conspiracy theorist
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Speaker 2: and paranoid and whatever. But you know, when you look
11:50
Speaker 2: at it and you wonder about things like this, you
11:52
Speaker 2: like it. Just like what Mark was saying and the
11:55
Speaker 2: Mark McDonald in the interview you had with him, and
11:57
Speaker 2: I can't remember the terms he used, but you came
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Speaker 2: home with the word organic, which is the word I
12:02
Speaker 2: use all the time. That we are not organically moving
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Speaker 2: through that that we are told how to be as
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Speaker 2: a culture, that it's not natural what's happening. And I
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Speaker 2: think that's very, very true. And I think that's where
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Speaker 2: the problem comes in, is that we're being fed this
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Speaker 2: manipulative kind of indoctrination into being us, you know, supple
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Speaker 2: and easily manipulated and adapted. And part of that is
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Speaker 2: to pull away any of the deeper uh creative expressions,
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Speaker 2: you know, to to to just have it be consuming
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Speaker 2: and be materialist and you know, rather than look at
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Speaker 2: a metaphysical aspect to reality. And because that is discouraged.
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Speaker 2: In fact, I just wrote an article on that hasn't
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Speaker 2: come out yet, but that's being discouraged in every way
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Speaker 2: possible that you see is any kind of metaphysic belief
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Speaker 2: in luck and uh, you know, positive thinking and Jesus
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Speaker 2: and you know, it's it's just just constantly, you're just
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Speaker 2: told when you're an idiot or that stupid, and you
13:27
Speaker 2: know it's also dangerous now to be say a Christian,
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Speaker 2: that's that is considered dangerous. It's like any anything in
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Speaker 2: the culture that's talked about that is is Christian is
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Speaker 2: considered by the left as being a derogatory, negative aspect of.
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Speaker 1: The means, which means that we need to encourage Christianity.
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Speaker 1: People need to become believers again and become counter culture.
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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the that's the new anti establishment.
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Speaker 2: Are you being flippant, Well, yeah, in a way, in
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Speaker 2: a way, I am, but I'm but I.
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Speaker 1: Actually am being serious because I think I mean so,
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Speaker 1: I was driving in the car with my wife not
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Speaker 1: too long ago, and she asked me, if I think
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Speaker 1: the decline of society just culturally morally, you know this,
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Speaker 1: this this devolution into degeneracy and and the celebration of
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Speaker 1: everything that is wrong, is connected to the rise of atheism.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, one hundred percent. Smart, smart woman, I mean, I
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Speaker 2: mean more so that is more important than just about
14:41
Speaker 2: anything you could say, because I think that is the
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Speaker 2: reason this pull away from from metaphysics and push toward materialism. Uh,
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Speaker 2: all of that, I believe is a result of the
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Speaker 2: secularization of the culture and tick a religion. I think
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Speaker 2: Christianity is probably at least to me and maybe to
15:06
Speaker 2: a lot of Westerns Westerners, is one that makes the
15:10
Speaker 2: most sense and in its very broad stroke kind of
15:15
Speaker 2: fundamental level of love and forgiveness and those sayings. I mean,
15:20
Speaker 2: the dogma of any religion is wiggy. I mean, you know,
15:23
Speaker 2: you've got to work around that. If you're a literalist,
15:26
Speaker 2: a fundamentalist from the Bible or whatever, there's there's issues
15:30
Speaker 2: around that. But that's what Christianity, she teaches. Judaism is similar.
15:37
Speaker 2: Hinduism is interesting only because it's it's essentially the same.
15:42
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know that much about it, but
15:46
Speaker 2: hard to say. I think I'm not going to talk
15:48
Speaker 2: about Islam because I don't know that much about it,
15:50
Speaker 2: but I do know a little bit about Sufism, and
15:53
Speaker 2: Sufism is a beautiful concept. Certainly, Buddhism is so I mean,
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Speaker 2: anything that believes in something other than materialism. I mean
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Speaker 2: that's basically what it is.
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Speaker 1: But that is part of creativity. We as humans, whether
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Speaker 1: it's true or not as irrelevant, we as humans created
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Speaker 1: that meaning, that purpose, that reason to wake up in
16:21
Speaker 1: the morning. We spoke about this in our storytelling conversation.
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Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, I mean I think that's you know,
16:31
Speaker 2: since humans and I'm one of them, has a tendency
16:35
Speaker 2: to want to reduce things down to fundamentals. But the
16:40
Speaker 2: fundamental thing is that materialism is not the end all
16:43
Speaker 2: of reality. And when you believe it is, you become
16:48
Speaker 2: incredibly restricted into what has meaning to you in life.
16:55
Speaker 2: And you know, that's where we get into religion, because religion,
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Speaker 2: in our spirituality or whatever, it does not believe that
17:03
Speaker 2: the material cause and effect, universe of particles bouncing on
17:07
Speaker 2: one another and in a relatively arbitrary way, is the
17:12
Speaker 2: end all. And I think that is the source of
17:19
Speaker 2: all of the problems. And if you look at the
17:22
Speaker 2: certainly Christianity and Judaism as well from the Old Testament,
17:25
Speaker 2: but if you look at the fundamental like the Ten
17:30
Speaker 2: Commandments for instance, it's like they're basic truths that if
17:37
Speaker 2: you follow you more than likely will not go completely
17:43
Speaker 2: off grid. They're very simplistic. So you could say, well,
17:48
Speaker 2: I want a more sophisticated way of seeing the world.
17:51
Speaker 2: You certainly can do that, as we've done. And that's
17:55
Speaker 2: part of the reason why we get into troubles because
17:58
Speaker 2: we keep trying to give it a call us an effect,
18:00
Speaker 2: meaning to it will prove that God exists. You know,
18:03
Speaker 2: it's like, well, what is proof?
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Speaker 1: But you don't need to prove that God exists because
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Speaker 1: you you believe in something through the mechanism of faith.
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Speaker 2: Yes, that's that's right. But when you use the word believe,
18:19
Speaker 2: which or prove, which is what everybody does, is that
18:22
Speaker 2: you're talking about proving it based on the scientific method,
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Speaker 2: which is a cause and effect.
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Speaker 1: But it's silly. And Richard Dawkins, who you noted as
18:31
Speaker 1: part of this kind of reductionist problem, Yeah.
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Speaker 2: It's not proving is not is not only defined by
18:44
Speaker 2: the scientific method, which is repeatability.
18:48
Speaker 1: Uh, you know, it's materialistic.
18:52
Speaker 2: It's it's totally materialistic. Yeah.
18:55
Speaker 1: So, I mean going back to the comment about atheism,
18:59
Speaker 1: because I know that are many atheists that listen to
19:02
Speaker 1: my show.
19:03
Speaker 2: It's not that any atheists that listen to yourself.
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Speaker 1: For sure, but it's not that atheists are necessarily bad people, Todd,
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Speaker 1: They're not necessarily I'm not saying that individual atheists are
19:13
Speaker 1: bad people. I'm saying that bad Yeah. No, I'm saying
19:17
Speaker 1: that atheism as a philosophical system, as a framework, it
19:20
Speaker 1: can't coherently explain why anything perhaps is wrong.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you have to for for me to speak
19:33
Speaker 2: about it, you'd have to define atheism. And because I'm stupid,
19:39
Speaker 2: I would just say atheists, well, well, from the reality.
19:42
Speaker 1: And from a dolphins perspective. I mean, he's argued this extensively.
19:45
Speaker 1: And also I think Richard, Richard Christopher Hitchens, although he
19:50
Speaker 1: was he was quite open to the idea that, you know,
19:53
Speaker 1: atheism might might be a bad position to hold, But
19:58
Speaker 1: he couldn't find a stronger argument as far as I
20:01
Speaker 1: can remember.
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Speaker 2: What do you mean bad? Though? To find bad in what?
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Speaker 1: Sorry?
20:08
Speaker 2: In what?
20:08
Speaker 1: In what sense? About? Well?
20:10
Speaker 2: If you say atheism is a bad position whole? What
20:14
Speaker 2: do you mean by bad? Do you mean not complete?
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Speaker 2: Not real? Not true? Is that does that make it
20:20
Speaker 2: bad if it's not true? No?
20:22
Speaker 1: Okay, hanging on all right?
20:23
Speaker 2: Right? Right? So is it bad for a human to
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Speaker 2: be an atheist? Or not bad for a human to
20:28
Speaker 2: be an atheist.
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Speaker 1: No, I don't think it's inherently bad to be an atheist.
20:32
Speaker 1: I've got a friend who's an atheist. He'll argue that
20:35
Speaker 1: we are just merely the result of evolutionary processes, right,
20:41
Speaker 1: and going all the way back, I guess to I
20:44
Speaker 1: don't know the big bang. We're all star dust or whatever,
20:46
Speaker 1: and there's no there's no greater meaning. We just die
20:50
Speaker 1: and that's that now. And that's a Dawkin's position. And
20:57
Speaker 1: he sees beauty still in the world around him, you know,
21:01
Speaker 1: in the flowers and the sunrise and all that kind
21:03
Speaker 1: of thing. But I also see beauty in those things.
21:06
Speaker 1: But he can't intrinsically argue why rape is bad because
21:15
Speaker 1: he has no moral framework from which to base that on.
21:21
Speaker 1: Or incest. You see, I can see if you're if
21:29
Speaker 1: you're a Christian, if you're a Christian or human, Muslim, whatever,
21:32
Speaker 1: you can say, well, I have it here. It's written,
21:35
Speaker 1: it's written down in in this in the Holy Scriptures.
21:39
Speaker 1: That's my moral framework. It comes from it comes from God.
21:44
Speaker 1: But if you're an atheist, you don't believe in God,
21:46
Speaker 1: So where does that come from?
21:48
Speaker 2: Those examples, Those examples are very easy to prove from
21:54
Speaker 2: a materialist point of view, you don't need to have
21:57
Speaker 2: religion to prove. First of all, you don't need to
21:59
Speaker 2: have religion to prove that evolution, Darwin's you know, the
22:03
Speaker 2: whole survival of the fittest concept or whatever, is completely false.
22:09
Speaker 2: All you need is good mathematics to prove that from
22:13
Speaker 2: a materialist perspective. Now, that doesn't mean it proves that
22:17
Speaker 2: God exists or intelligent design exists. It doesn't prove that either,
22:22
Speaker 2: but it certainly proves that that theory is flawed. And
22:28
Speaker 2: if somebody needs to have scripture to tell them that
22:31
Speaker 2: rape is wrong, then that's a.
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Speaker 1: No, I'll blow No, that's not no, no, no, hang on,
22:38
Speaker 1: that's not quite correct. We will know that, we all
22:41
Speaker 1: know that that's wrong. But let me ask you a question.
22:44
Speaker 1: Do you think that incest is wrong?
22:47
Speaker 2: Yes?
22:48
Speaker 1: But okay, why?
22:50
Speaker 2: Well psychologically because it almost invariably without exception, damages the
22:56
Speaker 2: psychic system the of the victim, destroys a sense of trust,
23:04
Speaker 2: and you know, certainly destroys the the power differential between
23:10
Speaker 2: a child and an adult, which is required for the
23:13
Speaker 2: child to nurture and to become fully integrated as a
23:18
Speaker 2: psychic being as they grow older, they require adults to
23:22
Speaker 2: be trustworthy and not invade their their power structure to
23:28
Speaker 2: their advantage. And it does. I mean, there's there's no
23:34
Speaker 2: question that it does severe damage to a child psyche
23:39
Speaker 2: to be molested, even even if they enjoy it, which
23:43
Speaker 2: you know, physiologically, there's a possibility that that depending on
23:47
Speaker 2: their age and whatever, that that they their body will
23:50
Speaker 2: respond biologically to it. You get into morals, uh, yeah,
23:58
Speaker 2: you're going to run into a lot of that at
24:02
Speaker 2: what is right and what is wrong from a moralistic
24:05
Speaker 2: point of view. You don't need God for that either. Really,
24:11
Speaker 2: in my view, there's a word born knowing, you know,
24:16
Speaker 2: and this is this is an ancient Egyptian concept of
24:19
Speaker 2: the word ma, which is that we so as so
24:24
Speaker 2: above as below, or as above so below, or whatever
24:27
Speaker 2: it is where where there is an innate knowingness of morality.
24:33
Speaker 2: But morality is a tough one. I mean, you know,
24:35
Speaker 2: Nietzsche went into this big time. And I'm not going
24:39
Speaker 2: to quote Nietzsche because I'm not very well read with
24:42
Speaker 2: Nietzsche's work, but this idea that that morality is an
24:47
Speaker 2: individual and is based on context, you know, like I
24:53
Speaker 2: could say morally, I'm not a murderer, but if somebody
24:56
Speaker 2: broke into my house and threatened my wife, I would
24:59
Speaker 2: have no murdering them. Killing them, now, that's a little
25:03
Speaker 2: different than murder because murder is premeditated for your own benefit.
25:08
Speaker 2: And that's what the Ten Commandments say is as I'll
25:11
Speaker 2: not murder. It doesn't say kill what everybody loves to say.
25:14
Speaker 2: It says kill. Well, it doesn't.
25:16
Speaker 1: But our soldiers therefore murdering, since what they're doing is
25:22
Speaker 1: is it's pre meditated.
25:24
Speaker 2: Ultimately, that's why war is no good but ultimately true.
25:29
Speaker 2: I mean I wouldn't go so far as the sage individual. Yeah,
25:33
Speaker 2: you know, but that is sinful. Yeah, I mean war
25:35
Speaker 2: is sinful because of that. If you're defending yourself from
25:39
Speaker 2: a marauder.
25:41
Speaker 1: Just go with me on this. God is a placeholder,
25:44
Speaker 1: all right. So whether you're Christian, Muslim, whatever, you're a believer,
25:47
Speaker 1: as we said earlier, as opposed to just thinking that
25:50
Speaker 1: there's nothing and we just result of stardust without God. Right,
25:58
Speaker 1: they aren't grounds for let's say objective morality, right, only
26:02
Speaker 1: for preference or social convention or let's say opinion or something. Okay,
26:08
Speaker 1: morality in many respects is clearly objective. So, like you
26:12
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, rape, murder, torture, we don't just dislike them.
26:18
Speaker 1: They are legitimately wrong, and we don't even have to
26:23
Speaker 1: try and explain why they just are. So, therefore, could
26:29
Speaker 1: we not say that something beyond human consensus must ground
26:34
Speaker 1: that wrongness, And instead of trying to dodge this by
26:40
Speaker 1: perhaps building ethics on reason or science or something materialistic
26:45
Speaker 1: like that, could we not argue that there is some
26:50
Speaker 1: sort of transcendence or transcendent value in our moral obligation.
27:00
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's a wood set it and off.
27:03
Speaker 2: Well, I'm assuming you're not an atheist.
27:08
Speaker 1: No, I'm not an atheist, because I just don't see
27:10
Speaker 1: the point.
27:11
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not an atheist either. I have very strong
27:15
Speaker 2: beliefs whatever you want to call it, whatever word. So
27:18
Speaker 2: it's hard for me to comment on that because I
27:20
Speaker 2: believe that I believe what you're saying. I do think
27:24
Speaker 2: that certain moral issues, not all of them, but certain
27:28
Speaker 2: ones are again innately embedded within us due to a
27:35
Speaker 2: transcendent awareness. Because I believe in that, So, you know,
27:40
Speaker 2: it's easy for me to say that. I'm not quite
27:44
Speaker 2: sure how an atheist would make a comment. I mean,
27:47
Speaker 2: I remember one of the weirdest atheist comments that I
27:51
Speaker 2: heard or read about was explaining why we're moved by
27:57
Speaker 2: a sunset, that we find a sunset inspiring and moves
28:04
Speaker 2: our heart because it indicates that the crops will be
28:10
Speaker 2: good and will be able to eat if the sun
28:14
Speaker 2: is like emitting a certain kind of light or whatever.
28:17
Speaker 2: You know. It was all this again materialists, you know,
28:22
Speaker 2: explanation for a sense that we generally will apply to
28:27
Speaker 2: an awareness of something greater than ourselves and some kind
28:32
Speaker 2: of unity in the universe of positive intention that is
28:37
Speaker 2: not all just arbitrary. We're all based on our physical survival,
28:44
Speaker 2: and I think that what you're getting into is related
28:46
Speaker 2: to that. It's like, it's like if there is not
28:49
Speaker 2: an objective reason for it, like for believing the rape
28:55
Speaker 2: is wrong, then it doesn't really exists, as like morality
29:03
Speaker 2: doesn't really exist.
29:04
Speaker 1: Well well a sorry, let me jump in there and
29:06
Speaker 1: add and addendum. So if morality is something that is
29:12
Speaker 1: just a consequence of evolution, right, what would be the
29:17
Speaker 1: reason to help to help us cooperate to help I
29:20
Speaker 1: don't know, or if it's something that society has agreed
29:23
Speaker 1: on for a very long time. Then you could argue
29:27
Speaker 1: that it has no more authority than something like the
29:32
Speaker 1: address code, because you can you can just break it,
29:36
Speaker 1: and if you're clever, you can you can get away
29:38
Speaker 1: with it.
29:42
Speaker 2: Well, that's the argument, isn't it. I mean, that would
29:44
Speaker 2: be the eathist argument to say it's a product of
29:47
Speaker 2: evolutions as communal integrity, of being able to live with
29:53
Speaker 2: one another. You have these certain rules that have evolutionarily
29:57
Speaker 2: been passed down based on caluse and.
29:59
Speaker 1: Effect, but animals live without it.
30:05
Speaker 2: Well, but you don't see animals murdering each other either.
30:09
Speaker 2: Of course, there's argument against that too, with this whole
30:12
Speaker 2: thing about dolphins raping each other or whatever. And here's
30:18
Speaker 2: a good one though, that I think is in line
30:20
Speaker 2: with what you're talking about. Why is it that if
30:23
Speaker 2: we physiologically develop to a point where we can pro
30:28
Speaker 2: create at fifteen or fourteen, fourteen or thirteen, yet it
30:34
Speaker 2: is immoral for a man who is twenty one to
30:40
Speaker 2: have sex with a fourteen year old.
30:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. I have been asking that question for years. It's
30:44
Speaker 1: not a question you can ask easily because you immediately
30:48
Speaker 1: immediately get put into a box. Oh my god, yeah, yeah,
30:53
Speaker 1: no you are what are you? Are you supporting Peter Filia?
30:55
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no, no no. But you're just
30:59
Speaker 1: asking the biological question. Why why are teenagers ready? Biologically
31:08
Speaker 1: they might be ready upstairs, but why why are they
31:11
Speaker 1: bodies ready?
31:13
Speaker 2: Well, it's not so much why their body is ready.
31:16
Speaker 2: The why is why is that considered immoral? That's the big.
31:21
Speaker 1: Why how do they get to the number I don't know,
31:24
Speaker 1: sixteen or twenty one?
31:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all. That's all cultural. I mean, because there
31:29
Speaker 2: are places in the world where when you're fourteen, you
31:31
Speaker 2: get married and start having babies, right, you know the
31:35
Speaker 2: limit you developed.
31:36
Speaker 1: Me let me just say that my kids will not
31:38
Speaker 1: be doing that when they're teenagers.
31:40
Speaker 2: Well no, because the culture doesn't allow it. The problem
31:44
Speaker 2: I think that comes in this is a touchy subject
31:46
Speaker 2: just from what you said. The problem comes in is
31:49
Speaker 2: that when people judge that natural process to happen. Yes,
31:57
Speaker 2: there's a judgment because anybody in the culture knows the
32:02
Speaker 2: law and knows it's wrong, and there's good reasons why
32:07
Speaker 2: it is. I mean, it isn't just just because you're
32:10
Speaker 2: physically ready to have sex doesn't mean you should in
32:17
Speaker 2: a culture setting because the culture is set up in
32:20
Speaker 2: such a way that you don't do that, at least
32:23
Speaker 2: the Western culture. This culture is but for a man
32:26
Speaker 2: to be attracted, say to a girl who's thirteen or fourteen,
32:33
Speaker 2: is considered morally wrong. That he's like, he's got something
32:38
Speaker 2: wrong in his head, yes, acting it out, he does
32:41
Speaker 2: because he knows he's in a system. I mean, just
32:43
Speaker 2: like if I walk into a store and I see, like,
32:47
Speaker 2: you know, a bag of bread and I'm hungry, and
32:49
Speaker 2: I go, oh, what the hell, I'll just take and
32:50
Speaker 2: need it. It's like I know better to know that
32:54
Speaker 2: I will be arrested for stealing because that's the law.
32:58
Speaker 2: My physiology says, I'm hungry and there's food sitting there,
33:01
Speaker 2: so why not eat it? But I'm messed up psychologically
33:07
Speaker 2: because I don't follow the law. But I don't follow
33:11
Speaker 2: it because it's immoral, or I follow it because it's
33:15
Speaker 2: immorl or it's kidding all mixed up. I follow the
33:20
Speaker 2: law because not because it's a moral obligation. I follow
33:25
Speaker 2: it because it's the law. It's what our community has
33:28
Speaker 2: created as a law. And the same thing goes with children.
33:32
Speaker 2: I think it's a little more complicated than that, because
33:35
Speaker 2: I do think that as we go through our development
33:42
Speaker 2: culturally even that certain things get kind of hardwired in
33:48
Speaker 2: not like evolution, but almost like archetypal evolution. That there
33:53
Speaker 2: is something despicable about being attracted even sexually to a
33:59
Speaker 2: young girl and especially people that have that have children
34:03
Speaker 2: and whatever. But it's I mean, this is such a
34:06
Speaker 2: touchy topic. And the culture also, there's no question that
34:11
Speaker 2: because the culture is the way it is, a young
34:14
Speaker 2: girl should not be engaged with an older person sexually
34:22
Speaker 2: for psychological reason. It's they're not ready psychologically for that.
34:27
Speaker 2: And that's primarily because of the culture. That's not some
34:29
Speaker 2: evolutionary physiology that takes place there. They the power differential
34:36
Speaker 2: is going to affect them, the trust, all of those things.
34:39
Speaker 2: It's just isn't supposed to be there.
34:42
Speaker 1: Yes, the reality the power differential will always be there.
34:46
Speaker 2: Well, you're talking about you're talking about archetypal power differential,
34:50
Speaker 2: and the woman has her share of power over the
34:54
Speaker 2: male as well, so it evens out archetypally, it it
35:01
Speaker 2: you know, the sums of both even out she has
35:05
Speaker 2: x amount of power, he has x amount of power.
35:08
Speaker 2: And in a good relationship, that's well formed and whatever.
35:12
Speaker 1: The psychologically is, yeah, psychological. In actual fact, I'll argue
35:15
Speaker 1: that psychologically men are a lot more primitive on average.
35:20
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely absolutely.
35:23
Speaker 1: I mean that's why, that's why, that's why we still
35:25
Speaker 1: laugh at fot jokes. I mean that is the truth,
35:30
Speaker 1: you know. And if you look at that, I mean,
35:33
Speaker 1: if you look at the bel Cove, yeah, I mean,
35:35
Speaker 1: if you look at the Bell Curve, women dominate the
35:38
Speaker 1: majority space. Men are the are the ones on the fringes,
35:42
Speaker 1: and then we do red bull kind of stuff, you know,
35:44
Speaker 1: where where we can die. Uh, And I mean that
35:48
Speaker 1: is very dumb ultimately if you've got a family, But
35:53
Speaker 1: that is it's.
35:54
Speaker 2: Dumb in this current culture. There's a lot of things
35:57
Speaker 2: like that that are dumb in the culture. But if
35:59
Speaker 2: you go back couple of thousand years and you're dealing
36:02
Speaker 2: with people living in the forests and hunting bore and
36:06
Speaker 2: whatever in order to survive, there's the successful hunter is
36:10
Speaker 2: one that takes risks and if he doesn't cowboy it
36:14
Speaker 2: up sometimes and act like an idiot, he doesn't learn
36:17
Speaker 2: a skill that will make his family survive. So all
36:22
Speaker 2: those things go. You know, what we see in today's
36:25
Speaker 2: culture obviously we're not hunting boor anymore, but we still
36:31
Speaker 2: do those stupid things, and the culture tells us we're
36:34
Speaker 2: stupid or toxic, you know, a better one.
36:41
Speaker 1: A couple of times, listen to this.
36:43
Speaker 2: Don't talk about Nietzsche.
36:45
Speaker 1: Well, this is this is what he This is what
36:46
Speaker 1: he said. The belief in humanity was itself just to
36:49
Speaker 1: hangover from belief in God, and once God was eradicated,
36:54
Speaker 1: the belief in human beings would follow the same way.
37:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. I would not argue with that, but this is
37:04
Speaker 2: this is just going back to what your wife was saying.
37:06
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's going back to this idea that
37:10
Speaker 2: what makes us human is very much based on our belief.
37:16
Speaker 1: In God, creativity.
37:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever, however you want to frame that, And it's
37:24
Speaker 2: not even you know, again, I don't like to say,
37:26
Speaker 2: because I ask my clients this all the time. I say,
37:30
Speaker 2: do you believe in a in a higher power rather
37:34
Speaker 2: than God? God? God is a bad word these days
37:37
Speaker 2: because people are very very It's very common for people
37:41
Speaker 2: to say I don't believe in God. But if you
37:43
Speaker 2: frame it a certain way, and even higher power isn't
37:46
Speaker 2: isn't good because it really isn't a higher power, it's
37:50
Speaker 2: it's more of an intentional mind. I mean, that's that's
37:54
Speaker 2: the best way in my view to say it an
37:58
Speaker 2: intentional intelligence, essentially, meaning that there is there, it is
38:04
Speaker 2: not the universe, and the formation of matter is not arbitrary,
38:11
Speaker 2: that it's not chance, it's actually intended.
38:17
Speaker 1: He argues that it's not random, Oh does he?
38:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, well then what makes it not random? What's doing that?
38:27
Speaker 2: In his view? Well, you know, if something's not random,
38:31
Speaker 2: it means yeah.
38:34
Speaker 1: This is the this is the problem with sort of
38:37
Speaker 1: secular humanism in many ways. You know, those those those
38:40
Speaker 1: cartoon images, you know, where where the character is sitting
38:44
Speaker 1: on a branch of a tree and he's sawing off
38:46
Speaker 1: the branch. He's sawing sawing off the branch. So like,
38:49
Speaker 1: for example, if you think about this, Okay, if morality
38:53
Speaker 1: is a social construct or it's I don't know, consequence
38:57
Speaker 1: of evolution, right, then there is no morality because if
39:02
Speaker 1: the if the meaning of life is invent your own meaning,
39:05
Speaker 1: then there is no meaning.
39:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the morality, I mean you got to define
39:12
Speaker 2: that too, because what what is moral that doesn't have
39:18
Speaker 2: an objective purpose behind it? So give me an example
39:23
Speaker 2: of that. You know, we've been talking about rape and
39:25
Speaker 2: pedophilia and whatever, but there there is an objective reason
39:29
Speaker 2: why pedophilia, say, with somebody that is pre pubescent, all right,
39:36
Speaker 2: is morally wrong. But it's also objectively wrong because it
39:40
Speaker 2: doesn't have any purpose in it. There's there's no end
39:45
Speaker 2: story to it, that has any any meaning to it.
39:49
Speaker 1: Objectively, well, it's gratification with it in a very in
39:54
Speaker 1: a very disgusting way. It's self gratification.
39:57
Speaker 2: Wealth, yes, but that doesn't that that's not good enough.
40:02
Speaker 2: That doesn't have any kind of It's not immoral from
40:06
Speaker 2: a spiritual point of view. I mean it is. But
40:10
Speaker 2: if you wipe that out and say there is no
40:12
Speaker 2: spiritual point of view, why is that wrong? It's wrong
40:16
Speaker 2: because it has no meaning. It becomes a pathological and
40:21
Speaker 2: mentally aberrant behavior because it's self gratifying at the expense
40:26
Speaker 2: of another being. Now, if you ate children because you
40:33
Speaker 2: are hungry, that's different. That's okay from a not from
40:41
Speaker 2: an atheistic point of view. If you needed to do
40:44
Speaker 2: that in order to survive, where morally you wouldn't. I mean,
40:49
Speaker 2: what's the big thing about people eating each other? There's
40:51
Speaker 2: I mean not just children, but anybody. I mean, there
40:54
Speaker 2: was that that very very famous I can't remember it
40:57
Speaker 2: because there's been a couple of them since, but I
40:59
Speaker 2: know when I was a kid, it was in the
41:00
Speaker 2: sixties that airplane crash where people were like starving or.
41:06
Speaker 1: Like number and they started eating one another.
41:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was such a big to do about
41:12
Speaker 2: how horrible that was. I was like, you know, and
41:15
Speaker 2: they were already dead. It's not like they killed them
41:17
Speaker 2: to eat them. They were already dead, and it was
41:20
Speaker 2: considered such a horrible thing to them.
41:23
Speaker 1: Not another very famous another very famous atheist, uh thinker
41:30
Speaker 1: I suppose as Peter Singer, and he's kind of followed
41:36
Speaker 1: on with that line of reasoning that you were just
41:38
Speaker 1: talking about now. I mean, I think he promotes beastiality
41:41
Speaker 1: and infant sight, infant infant infant.
41:45
Speaker 2: And infantize infanticide.
41:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, because basically you're creating your own framework of morality
41:53
Speaker 1: and ethics, because if it doesn't come from anywhere, then
41:58
Speaker 1: you're inventing it.
42:00
Speaker 2: Well, you're inventing it due to mental pathology as well.
42:04
Speaker 2: You have to factor that into all of this stuff.
42:07
Speaker 1: And they have those objective by the way.
42:10
Speaker 2: Well it's not identifiably objective. It is to the individual,
42:15
Speaker 2: probably because their objective system is messed up. And I
42:21
Speaker 2: don't know who's done studies. I shouldn't even be mentioning
42:23
Speaker 2: this because I don't know anything about it. But like
42:26
Speaker 2: that would stop me. But you know, animals, I don't
42:32
Speaker 2: think they have the same variety of mental illness that
42:36
Speaker 2: humans do, if any. I don't know the research on that.
42:40
Speaker 2: Maybe some of your listeners do and they can let
42:43
Speaker 2: us know. But humans have such a huge variety of
42:47
Speaker 2: mental aberrations. It's like, and you know, it's not just
42:52
Speaker 2: made up by the pharmaceutical companies, a lot of them are.
42:56
Speaker 2: But just what we live through as beings that are
43:01
Speaker 2: beyond animals, you know, living in tribes or whatever, is
43:06
Speaker 2: so complex that it really does loose in a lot
43:10
Speaker 2: of screws in our systems. And you've got to factor
43:15
Speaker 2: that into talking about people doing stuff that's a moral
43:20
Speaker 2: I think out of the box, there's a lot of
43:23
Speaker 2: just like with animals, there's a lot of things humans
43:26
Speaker 2: do that are abhorrent out of the box. I don't
43:30
Speaker 2: think they would. I think they have to have baggage
43:33
Speaker 2: to start doing these these things, Like like you know,
43:38
Speaker 2: pedophilia and rape and whatnot.
43:41
Speaker 1: Well, this isn't really we haven't really viewed, of course.
43:46
Speaker 1: I mean this is fairly closely linked to your article
43:51
Speaker 1: about the death of creativity because you also mentioned reductionism,
43:55
Speaker 1: and you mentioned people like Richard Dawkins, who is an atheist,
43:59
Speaker 1: and he's a very outspoken atheist. Now, I don't know
44:02
Speaker 1: if you remember a guy by the name of Roger
44:04
Speaker 1: Scrutin and sounds familiarly, and he argues that secular societies,
44:11
Speaker 1: let me get this right to will increasingly lose the
44:18
Speaker 1: sense of the sacred and it's, if I'm correct, it's
44:22
Speaker 1: that erosion that would corrode our communal bonds and our
44:28
Speaker 1: shared moral life. So in other words, the atheist reduction
44:33
Speaker 1: of who we are, you know, comes down to nothing
44:37
Speaker 1: but biology or chemical reactions and todd if you think
44:42
Speaker 1: about it, that is the literal definition of degeneracy.
44:50
Speaker 2: As as humanity as a human. And you know, I
44:56
Speaker 2: think this is to me, this is the proof of
44:59
Speaker 2: God or whatever you want to call it. Where I
45:02
Speaker 2: think the atheist, the hardcore atheist, is so off of
45:09
Speaker 2: non understanding that you know, trying I know, EO. Wilson
45:12
Speaker 2: he's also an atheist. I'm not sure if you're familiar
45:16
Speaker 2: with him. He's an entomologist that's written a ton of books.
45:20
Speaker 2: And there's a recent book I can't remember the title
45:22
Speaker 2: of it. I think it's one of the last ones
45:23
Speaker 2: he wrote, where he tries to frame to take philosophy
45:30
Speaker 2: and art and love and all these things that we
45:33
Speaker 2: all attribute to our non secular selves, our sacred selves,
45:40
Speaker 2: and he tries to rationalize them through this materialist, atheistic perspective.
45:46
Speaker 2: And Dawkins does that too, but he really really tried
45:50
Speaker 2: doing this book. And when you're reading it, it's like
45:54
Speaker 2: the guy saw in the branch Off. I mean, it's
45:56
Speaker 2: like you just like, go, well, if you're right, It's
46:01
Speaker 2: like we might as well be one of the ants
46:03
Speaker 2: you study, because it's it's like there is no humanness
46:07
Speaker 2: in it. Yet we prove we're human again and again
46:10
Speaker 2: and again with our art and our our creativity, whether
46:17
Speaker 2: it be an art or whether it being building a building,
46:19
Speaker 2: you know, or a cell phone even I mean, that's
46:22
Speaker 2: all creative output. That's very human. Yeah, absolutely, And I
46:31
Speaker 2: just don't think you can do that. I don't think
46:35
Speaker 2: their argument even begins to hold up in any way
46:39
Speaker 2: at all. Now, I think you can strip that from us,
46:47
Speaker 2: because it's obvious that we have. It's been stripped, or
46:52
Speaker 2: at least attempted to be stripped of all this. And
46:54
Speaker 2: just like what your wife is saying, this is this
46:57
Speaker 2: is why we're degenerating. Just like what you just said,
46:59
Speaker 2: this is why we're degenerating into a culture that constantly
47:05
Speaker 2: wages war when there's no objective reason to. I mean,
47:10
Speaker 2: there may have been a thousand years ago, more objectively, well,
47:13
Speaker 2: we need to have more wheat because we're all dying.
47:15
Speaker 2: You know, let's go invage this country. That wasn't the
47:19
Speaker 2: main reason why people did. Of course, it's too complicated
47:23
Speaker 2: to go into. But anyway, we're degenerating as a culture
47:29
Speaker 2: with we are accepting things like pedophilia as being a choice.
47:35
Speaker 2: You know, that's big in the news these days, and
47:38
Speaker 2: in psychology, the whole trans transsexual thing just on and on.
47:45
Speaker 2: I mean, you could list a thousand examples of that,
47:47
Speaker 2: and if you read any of my articles, you'll run
47:50
Speaker 2: into them, because that is exactly what is happening. It's
47:54
Speaker 2: like we're degenerating into this biological, consumer focused, fame creature
48:02
Speaker 2: that has no morality, has no sense of right and wrong,
48:07
Speaker 2: has no common sense, and I think.
48:10
Speaker 1: That's intenseism, right exactly transhumanists. Transhumanists like the idea of
48:21
Speaker 1: of us not being creative.
48:24
Speaker 2: Lack the idea of Oh, they don't like the idea
48:30
Speaker 2: of oh, absolutely not. No.
48:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you mentioned that science and technology basically
48:38
Speaker 1: driving all of this, and science and technology are at
48:40
Speaker 1: the heart of technocracy.
48:44
Speaker 2: Yeah. Have you ever heard of anybody coming up with
48:47
Speaker 2: a chip that you can put in your brain or
48:50
Speaker 2: even thinking about it that will make you more artistic,
48:53
Speaker 2: make you more creative, makes you a more a better composer,
48:58
Speaker 2: a better painter. No, it's all about either propagating intelligence,
49:05
Speaker 2: making you the next guy to come up with another
49:08
Speaker 2: chip that'll make you this, or extending your life. Those
49:12
Speaker 2: are all materialist concepts. One has no end to it.
49:17
Speaker 2: It just goes on and on and on until we
49:20
Speaker 2: invent some kind of mechanism that will just kill everybody
49:23
Speaker 2: in one button push and everybody will just drop dead.
49:26
Speaker 2: That's the ultimate in that, Okay. But the transhuman concept
49:32
Speaker 2: primarily is to live forever with no pain, and that's
49:38
Speaker 2: all completely based on materialism and consumerism. That's it. There's
49:46
Speaker 2: no focus on being a better human. There's no focus
49:49
Speaker 2: on being more artistic, more creative, more expression, more meaning,
49:58
Speaker 2: more purpose. That's not in the transhumanist I don't think
50:02
Speaker 2: it is. I mean, maybe you do, maybe somebody listening does.
50:05
Speaker 2: I've never seen that anywhere in the transhumanists paradigm.
50:10
Speaker 1: And I don't think those transhumanists, those oligocks, those globalists
50:15
Speaker 1: are believers. I think they're all atheists. I think they yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:19
Speaker 1: I mean I think they all believe in nothing other
50:23
Speaker 1: than other than being chaotic and nihilistic and wanting to
50:27
Speaker 1: exert power and control and and that kind of Again
50:31
Speaker 1: just makes me want to reiterate the comment because it
50:34
Speaker 1: sounds like I'm completely dunking on atheists. I've got atheist friends.
50:37
Speaker 1: I'm not saying anything wrong about my atheist friends. I'm
50:40
Speaker 1: talking about the framework, the structure, why it can't inherently
50:45
Speaker 1: explain why something is truly wrong, or why we have
50:49
Speaker 1: an inherent desire for dignity for example.
50:54
Speaker 2: Now, they just they just can't go there. I mean,
50:56
Speaker 2: they're they're two kinds of atheists. I would fire a
51:00
Speaker 2: lot of different kinds, but just in thinking there's one
51:03
Speaker 2: that believe in the theory of atheism, essentially the dogma
51:09
Speaker 2: of materialism. They can't deviate from anything that would tear
51:15
Speaker 2: that down. So that's more of a hypothetical. I mean,
51:19
Speaker 2: like EO. Wilson is like that. If you read any
51:21
Speaker 2: of his work, he's probably one of the most soulful
51:24
Speaker 2: people that ever existed. I mean, he was so in
51:27
Speaker 2: touch with his heart and so in touch with compassion
51:30
Speaker 2: and care and the awe of nature. I mean, just
51:35
Speaker 2: on and on and on. But he refused to go
51:38
Speaker 2: past the materialist cause and effect arbitrary nature of nature.
51:43
Speaker 2: And that's one kind I think. Then there's another that
51:47
Speaker 2: uses it to excuse their evil. Essentially, they're the oligarch,
51:51
Speaker 2: they're the power hungry. They're whatever. They'll claim they're religious
51:55
Speaker 2: or believe in God just to get people to pay
51:58
Speaker 2: attention to them. But different kind of thinking. It's it's
52:03
Speaker 2: not so much that they're sticking to a dogma of materialism.
52:08
Speaker 2: They're more sticking to this refusal that that power isn't
52:14
Speaker 2: the only thing worth living for and fighting for and whatever.
52:19
Speaker 2: Then they're the people that are just terrified. They're terrified
52:22
Speaker 2: of dying. They're terrified of because they don't believe there's
52:26
Speaker 2: there's anything more than the material light. And those are
52:29
Speaker 2: the transhumanists that are trying to prolong life and and
52:34
Speaker 2: not see that death is part of it and that's
52:38
Speaker 2: part of being a human or any any animal.
52:44
Speaker 1: So therefore, if you truly want to be punk rock,
52:47
Speaker 1: find yourself something to believe in. And by the way,
52:51
Speaker 1: speaking of that, I mean we spoke about God, and
52:55
Speaker 1: I know that you said the source or whatever, right,
52:58
Speaker 1: it's a place all that. You know, if you're Christian,
53:00
Speaker 1: you'd say God, but if you're David Iike, you'd say
53:03
Speaker 1: a simulation something, something that created everything in which we
53:08
Speaker 1: find ourselves. But basically it's the opposite of we're just
53:14
Speaker 1: a result of stawdust.
53:18
Speaker 2: Well we physically might be. I mean, it's it's really
53:23
Speaker 2: the I think the way to reduce that is to
53:26
Speaker 2: like say, if you believe that the material world is
53:31
Speaker 2: all that exists, then you are an atheist a non believer,
53:39
Speaker 2: and that that's about it. I mean, you can refine
53:43
Speaker 2: that and say, oh, God is some benevolent being that
53:47
Speaker 2: sits up in the heavens and can see everybody or anywhere,
53:52
Speaker 2: see everybody in anything, and actually put grace on your
53:56
Speaker 2: physical life here and there or whatever you can. You
53:59
Speaker 2: can refine it to that degree, but ultimately it's just
54:05
Speaker 2: believing there is intention. The physical life is not the
54:10
Speaker 2: end all, And I don't mean end all in the
54:13
Speaker 2: sense that when you die there's an afterlife. I mean
54:16
Speaker 2: it's like, I don't know if you need to believe that.
54:21
Speaker 2: I think it it kind of just says that there's
54:25
Speaker 2: something to our agency or ability to to essentially discern existence,
54:35
Speaker 2: whether it be in a physical body or out of
54:37
Speaker 2: it or whatever.
54:39
Speaker 1: I mean, what if what if we would put you
54:41
Speaker 1: out by aliens?
54:43
Speaker 2: Well, then you just it's turtles all the way down.
54:45
Speaker 2: It's like who made the aliens? Okay, how did they
54:49
Speaker 2: come into existence? I mean that's not a good argument
54:53
Speaker 2: because it very well could be that there's something.
54:56
Speaker 1: That it's the same thing as who created God?
55:00
Speaker 2: Right, Well, that's the a priori there is. I mean,
55:06
Speaker 2: that's when you get into time and get into like
55:10
Speaker 2: all this weird stuff that time doesn't as a linear
55:13
Speaker 2: construct is doesn't really exist that way that there isn't
55:17
Speaker 2: a beginning, There isn't something before the first domino, you know.
55:25
Speaker 1: That whole prior I'm looking at the time, Todd, this
55:29
Speaker 1: is this has been a really light hearted conversation.
55:32
Speaker 2: Yes, it has.
55:34
Speaker 1: How can I how can I read artical? Then follow
55:37
Speaker 1: your work.
55:39
Speaker 2: Shrew views, which is www dot shrew like the little
55:44
Speaker 2: animal views like looking as my sub stack. And I
55:50
Speaker 2: also have a book out that is a bunch of
55:53
Speaker 2: my articles. In the book. You can find that at
55:56
Speaker 2: the view of the shrew dot com. It's also a
56:00
Speaker 2: website that's the name of the book.
56:04
Speaker 1: So it's so cute.
56:08
Speaker 2: A shrew is so cute, Yes, it is.
56:11
Speaker 1: It's an adorable little thing. That's some photographer managed to
56:20
Speaker 1: catch a shrew yawning the cutest little photograph. Yes, what
56:26
Speaker 1: do you have it?
56:26
Speaker 2: You've got to send it to me.
56:27
Speaker 1: I think I'll go and find it. But it was
56:32
Speaker 1: very cute.
56:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can be cute. They're also really on redbuggers,
56:37
Speaker 2: which is good. Good reason why I called ourselves shrews.
56:43
Speaker 2: I didn't know that when I came up with the name.
56:45
Speaker 2: My sister and I did. We said we were talking
56:47
Speaker 2: about sheep, and I said we got to have something
56:49
Speaker 2: we can call ourselves, so we came up with shrews.
56:53
Speaker 2: But it's very appropriate.
56:56
Speaker 1: It's always always a bit and thank you.
56:59
Speaker 2: For always wonderful. Thank you, sir, not always wonderful to
57:03
Speaker 2: talk m m hmm.