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Lawyer Brings Pregnant Wife Breakfast in Bed LACED WITH POISON · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greace. What woman would turn down
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: breakfast in bed? I wouldn't.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: I don't believe that's ever happened, but I do know this,
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  Speaker 2: I wouldn't turn it down.
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  Speaker 1: I would be thrilled.
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  Speaker 2: But how about the possibility that your breakfast in bed
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  Speaker 2: maybe your last meal?
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  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
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  Speaker 2: and on Serious XM one eleven. Think about it, your
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: husband bringing a breakfast in bed. How were you supposed
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  Speaker 2: to know that your food and drink has been poisoned?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where we're going. First of all, take a
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: listen to our friends a crime online.
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  Speaker 3: Katherine Herring, a Shreveport, Louisiana native, meets her future husband
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  Speaker 3: through mutual friends in his law school class. She attends
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: college in Texas. Katherine and Mason Herring Mary and move
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  Speaker 3: into a quiet Houston neighborhood and have two children. As
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  Speaker 3: their family grows, Katherine Herring steps down from her position
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  Speaker 3: as an executive with a nonprofit to be at home
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  Speaker 3: with the children. Mason Herring establishes a successful law firm.
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  Speaker 3: Katherine Herring is an artist. A lifelong painter. She launches
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  Speaker 3: a small business selling hand painted stationery, cards and gift tags.
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  Speaker 2: Again, thank you for being with us. I'm Nancy Grace
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: and this is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: on Crime Stories and on series six sem one to eleven.
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  Speaker 2: Hold on to Cole Parton joining me Crime online dot
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  Speaker 2: com investigator reporter.
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  Speaker 1: This guy is a lawyer.
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  Speaker 4: That's right. He's a successful lawyer. He's established a firm
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  Speaker 4: there in the Houston area and was doing quite well.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so I guess he's heard of the criminal code.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: You can't really get through law school.
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  Speaker 2: Irv Miller, high profile lawyer joining us from the Miller firm.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Also advisor to The Good Wife and The Good Fight
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  Speaker 2: at CBS.
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  Speaker 1: Erv Miller. I guess he did have to take criminal law.
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  Speaker 1: You got to take that to get through law school, right, Well,
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  Speaker 1: I'd like.
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  Speaker 5: To know what grade of God in the subject because
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  Speaker 5: he didn't work out too well firm in the end,
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  Speaker 5: did it?
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  Speaker 1: I mean? Really?
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  Speaker 2: You?
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  Speaker 1: And there's a whole nother psychological aspect.
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  Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, high profile psychoanalyst, joining us out of
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  Speaker 2: the LA jurisdiction at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany.
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  Speaker 2: Really the irony of bringing your wife breakfast in bed,
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  Speaker 2: which seems loving.
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  Speaker 1: I wonder if he laid a rose on the ben trade.
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  Speaker 2: But it's spiked with poison. The Okay, look, I'm just
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  Speaker 2: a lawyer, you're a shrink.
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  Speaker 1: But that's got to mean something.
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  Speaker 6: You know, Nancy. It brings the idea of domestic homicide
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  Speaker 6: and domestic abuse to a whole new level. You know,
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  Speaker 6: it's the same old psychology as domestic violence. It's just
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  Speaker 6: a new means, a new method, a new level of
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  Speaker 6: evil cleverness. But I think a lot of times abusers
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  Speaker 6: do something called love bombing, you know, that's made its
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  Speaker 6: way into our our vernacular, acting super sweet, acting loving,
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  Speaker 6: acting like they're the only person in the world who
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  Speaker 6: can just be the holder of goodness and light for
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  Speaker 6: that person.
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  Speaker 1: So why is it love bomb?
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  Speaker 2: Isn't that quite the dichotomy love bomb and bomb?
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  Speaker 6: M Sometimes love and hate go hand in hand, opposite
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  Speaker 6: side of the same coins. Nancy.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I'm trying to figure this out, but you
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  Speaker 2: mentioned domestic violence. Joining me right now is renowned expert
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: and domestic violence Julie Owen's domestic violence expert and consultant
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: and Julie Owen's consulting. You can find her at domestic
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Violence expert dot org. Julie, I've never thought but it
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  Speaker 2: is domestic abuse. But I think of pummeling someone with
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  Speaker 2: your hands or kicking them, I think of that as
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  Speaker 2: domestic abuse. But in this case, just the mind game
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  Speaker 2: of bringing your wife breakfast in bed, love bombing her,
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  Speaker 2: as doctor Bethany has pointed out, and all the while
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  Speaker 2: you're poisoning her.
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  Speaker 7: Absolutely, your dreammates, how common actually it is for abusers
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  Speaker 7: to do such things, you know, domestic violence or into
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  Speaker 7: their partner abuse. It's a pattern of abuses behavior that's
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  Speaker 7: it's to gain control, and coercive control is kind of
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  Speaker 7: the group that falls under. And I see what we
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  Speaker 7: call reproductive coersion, drug facilitated domestic violence, and what doctor
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  Speaker 7: Benthany referred to as love bombing, I call manipulative kindness.
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  Speaker 7: Actually for the reason that you said, I mean, most
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  Speaker 7: people don't use that time, but it's not love.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to.
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  Speaker 2: Write that down, Chiley, manipulative kindness.
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  Speaker 1: What is that?
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  Speaker 7: Well, it's a colleage tactic that abusers use that you know,
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  Speaker 7: makes it seem like uh oh, it's it's for the
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  Speaker 7: victim or for the partner. Oh, you don't need to work,
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  Speaker 7: you stay home and you take care of the babies,
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  Speaker 7: and I'll take care of everything else. You know. It's
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  Speaker 7: way to manipulate and control. And in this case, of course,
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  Speaker 7: it was you need to hide rate, you know, bringing
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  Speaker 7: her drinks. It seems nice that it's totally self serving, right,
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  Speaker 7: he had his reasons for doing this, and it had
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  Speaker 7: nothing to do with kindness or love. Clearly, as doctor
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  Speaker 7: Bethany said.
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  Speaker 2: I'm just thinking through what you're saying about manipulative.
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  Speaker 1: Kindness. Manipulative kindness. Okay, So where.
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  Speaker 6: Nancy, what about saying to a woman, you know, you
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  Speaker 6: don't have to worry about the money, I'll pay for everything,
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  Speaker 6: and you don't have to worry about it at all.
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  Speaker 6: And at the same time, the guy is dashing it away,
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  Speaker 6: putting in another bank account, tracking everything she spends, in
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  Speaker 6: the form of control. But it looks like kindness on
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  Speaker 6: the surface, but underneath it that it is a form
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  Speaker 6: of manipulation and control, which is at the heart of
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  Speaker 6: domestic abuse.
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  Speaker 1: So where does the story go from here?
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  Speaker 2: We've left the victim in this case sitting in bed
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  Speaker 2: I imagine her in a frilly house coat and her hair, perfect,
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  Speaker 2: in her makeup and all that, But that sounds more
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  Speaker 2: like a movie from the fifties or the sixties. That's
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  Speaker 2: not at all the way this thing plays out. Take
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  Speaker 2: a listen to Sidney Sumner crime online.
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  Speaker 8: Catherine Herring is pregnant with her third child when she
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  Speaker 8: catches her husband lying about where he's been and texting
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  Speaker 8: a former female colleague. After a confrontation, Mason Herring moves out,
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  Speaker 8: telling his wife he wants to separate so he can
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  Speaker 8: work on himself. The couple tried marriage counseling. Mason Herring
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  Speaker 8: tells his wife he wants a divorce, but says he
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  Speaker 8: would look like a jerk divorcing her while she is pregnant.
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  Speaker 8: Catherine Herring still has hope for the marriage and believes
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  Speaker 8: they can work it out. The Herrings follow their therapist's
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  Speaker 8: advice and go on vacation together. Mason Herring seems to
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  Speaker 8: have had a change in heart from the divorce and
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  Speaker 8: brings his wife breakfast in bed.
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  Speaker 1: Breakfast in bed on vacation. Okay, that's just the cherry
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  Speaker 1: on top of the icing.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute, let me absorb what I've just
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  Speaker 2: heard from crimeonline dot Com Sidney Sumner. She's pregnant with
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  Speaker 2: the third child, but she catches him texting a female colleague. Now,
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  Speaker 2: so what if you text a female colleague? But I've
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  Speaker 2: got a funny feeling to call parton that those texts
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  Speaker 2: were not work related.
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  Speaker 4: That's true, they were inappropriate.
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  Speaker 1: What were they talking about? Sex?
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  Speaker 4: They were talking about having a relationship together.
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  Speaker 2: Wait, a love relationship or a sex relationship, A.
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  Speaker 4: Lover relationship, a sex relationship. And this is someone that
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  Speaker 4: she had confronted him about before, and he had promised
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  Speaker 4: so that he had let her go from her position
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  Speaker 4: and was no longer communicating with her, and that he
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  Speaker 4: was doing better and would not cheat again.
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  Speaker 1: By bye bye.
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  Speaker 2: Wait wait wait, wait wait? Did he admit to cheating
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  Speaker 2: or admit to texting?
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  Speaker 4: He admitted to inappropriate texting?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, hold on just a moment, Doctor Bethany Marshall, is
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  Speaker 2: that cheating when you catch your husband or boyfriend texting
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  Speaker 2: and sending email?
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  Speaker 1: Okay? Everybody in the studio is saying yes and.
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  Speaker 2: Worse Okay, gesticulations are not necessary, Jamie and Jackie, Okay,
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  Speaker 2: but that said, yeah, I would feel totally betrayed if
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  Speaker 2: I've found out David was texting somebody about you know,
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  Speaker 2: getting together, whether they ever do it or not, and
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  Speaker 2: sharing his private life with somebody, you know, making me
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  Speaker 2: so mad I want to set all his clothes on
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  Speaker 2: fire right now.
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  Speaker 1: But that said, is that cheating, doctor Bethany.
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  Speaker 6: That is absolutely cheating, And a woman in this position
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  Speaker 6: should ask herself if she walked in on that other
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  Speaker 6: person having lunch with that woman and she felt uncomfortable,
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  Speaker 6: that would mean it's cheating. You have to ask yourself
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  Speaker 6: these kinds of questions. There's a thousand different reasons why
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  Speaker 6: people cheat, and a thousand different forms of cheating, and
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  Speaker 6: this is definitely cheating, you.
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  Speaker 1: Know, doctor Bethany.
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  Speaker 2: A very dear friend of mine had a long term
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  Speaker 2: love that would go online and communicate with I'm gonna
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  Speaker 2: say to say, Russian male order wives m H. And
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  Speaker 2: I went bright up with him and she said, but
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  Speaker 2: he's not going to ever do.
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  Speaker 7: It all, please cares if that's for his.
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  Speaker 1: Head at why do you want him?
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  Speaker 6: I once kind of patient whose husband went to strip clubs,
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  Speaker 6: and when I said to her you should divorce him,
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  Speaker 6: she said, well, they're not allowed to touch the girls.
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  Speaker 6: So it's not really cheating. It is cheating having Russian
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  Speaker 6: mail order girls online. That's cheating. Hernography can be cheating.
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  Speaker 2: So I'm going to rely on the employees at the
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  Speaker 2: strip club to keep my husband from grabbing a naked stripper. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: right there, that relationship is over and that lady needs
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  Speaker 2: to find someone who will appreciate her.
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  Speaker 1: That said, let me get back to the poisoning.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, three children, she's pregnant for the third time.
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  Speaker 1: Here he is what a pos.
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  Speaker 2: Texting his girlfriend who he worked with. They have a confrontation,
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  Speaker 2: and he moves out. Has anybody else heard I need
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  Speaker 2: time to work on myself because I need time to
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  Speaker 2: work on myself. Really, I mean, I can't tell you
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  Speaker 2: what I would do to David if he said I
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  Speaker 2: need to move out and be on my own so
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  Speaker 2: I can work on myself. I may just say, you
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  Speaker 2: know what, feed the guineas, the cat, the dog, my
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  Speaker 2: mother and the twins clean the house to do the laundry,
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  Speaker 2: and you're free. Go run, go, and if you come back,
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  Speaker 2: don't show up cod because it's not happening. Work on myself,
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  Speaker 2: my rear end. Doctor Bethany I mean, what more do
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  Speaker 2: you need. Do you need a helicopter flying by with
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  Speaker 2: a sign that says break up?
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  Speaker 1: Now work on myself. He can work on himself with
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  Speaker 1: her exactly.
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  Speaker 6: Took the words right out of my mouth. The best
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  Speaker 6: way to work on yourself is to have a good
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  Speaker 6: relationship with the people you love and who love you.
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  Speaker 4: That's it.
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  Speaker 6: That's what therapy is for. It's not just to help
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  Speaker 6: people work on themselves. It's to help them have love
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  Speaker 6: relationships with their are kind and loving and pathic, and
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  Speaker 6: they give to other people.
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  Speaker 9: It's not about them.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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  Speaker 2: Guys, we're talking about this lady, this wife, this pregnant
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  Speaker 2: for the third time, mom getting poisoned. So let me
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  Speaker 2: get the car back in the middle of the road
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  Speaker 2: and out of the weeds where I steer it. Take
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: a listen to Rachel Bania, investigative reporter, Crime Stories.
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  Speaker 10: Mason Herring seems to be getting excited about their third child.
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  Speaker 10: He encourages his wife to drink more fluids because it's
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  Speaker 10: better for the baby. Along with breakfast in bed, Mason
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  Speaker 10: Herring brings Catherine a glass of water with food, insisting
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  Speaker 10: she drink it all while he watches the water is cloudy,
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  Speaker 10: but the dutiful husband promises it's just old pipes or
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  Speaker 10: slightly dirty glasses. Catherine Herring drinks all the water. About
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  Speaker 10: thirty minutes after Mason Herring leaves for work, Catherine becomes sick,
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  Speaker 10: painful stomach cramps, diarrhea, and after her third trip to
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  Speaker 10: the bathroom, realizes she's bleeding heavily. Hearing goes to the
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  Speaker 10: emergency room, where even after she's treated and sent home,
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  Speaker 10: she is still bleeding. Herring asks her mother to come
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  Speaker 10: stay with her as she is having pregnancy complications.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand Nicole Parton. She starts bleeding.
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  Speaker 2: After he encourages her to drink more fluids.
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  Speaker 4: That's right. So about thirty minutes after she drinks the
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  Speaker 4: glass of water that he gives her, she becomes very
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  Speaker 4: ill diarrhea, bleeding, the cramping, and she goes to the
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  Speaker 4: emergency room.
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  Speaker 1: And she's still pregnant at this juncture.
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  Speaker 4: He is pregnant, and so she knows. She fears for
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  Speaker 4: the life of her child. She knows something is wrong.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Let's analyze what we've just heard. They go on a
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  Speaker 2: vacation together.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: RV. Miller.
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  Speaker 2: Why the women go missing when they're on vacation. They
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: end up falling off cruise ships. They end up in
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  Speaker 2: the water.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Literally. I mean, I.
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  Speaker 2: Can name you woman after woman after woman after woman
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  Speaker 2: that vanishes and is dead on vacations.
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  Speaker 5: And it turns out these guys aren't very smart, because
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: it turns out, you hear about it, they get caught
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  Speaker 5: and end up in jail, and we can't forget. And
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  Speaker 5: you talk about how the wife is the victim, but
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  Speaker 5: in this particular case, the umbing child is potentially a
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  Speaker 5: victim of murder. He's trying to kill the baby and
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: is trying to get through his actions with his wife
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  Speaker 5: in order to kill the baby because he doesn't want
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  Speaker 5: they have to interfere with his new relationship. And the
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  Speaker 5: baby is the one who is actually the main victim
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  Speaker 5: in this particular case because could have been the victim
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  Speaker 5: of a murder.
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  Speaker 1: And think about it.
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  Speaker 2: She's so trusting that her husband hands her a glass
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  Speaker 2: of dirty water and blames it on the pipes. Who
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  Speaker 2: wants that, as nobody heard a bottled water anyway. She
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  Speaker 2: drinks it and ends up with horrible cramps, diarrhea and
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  Speaker 2: starts to bleed.
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  Speaker 1: Remember she's pregnant.
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  Speaker 5: To show you how smart he is, he leaves the
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  Speaker 5: glass behind with the fingerprints, leaves the glass behind with
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  Speaker 5: the quote unquote poison there to be collected and to
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  Speaker 5: be used against him in the future. This is not
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: a very great guy.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Can you imagine Ur Miller, He made it through law school. Okay,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: take a listen to Sidney Sumner crime Online.
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  Speaker 8: After getting home from the hospital, Mason Herring continues to
• 15:27
  Speaker 8: bring drinks to his wife, including a bottle of orange juice.
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  Speaker 8: The seal on the bottle is broken and a powder
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  Speaker 8: is seen in the bottom of the bottle. Catherine Herring
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  Speaker 8: doesn't drink what her husband gives her, but she saves
• 15:38
  Speaker 8: it and takes the evidence to a private investigator.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: While waiting on.
• 15:41
  Speaker 8: Test results from a lab, Mason Herring goes on vacation.
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  Speaker 10: While he is.
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  Speaker 8: Gone, the private investigator installs hidden cameras around the Herring
• 15:48
  Speaker 8: home and shows Catherine Herring how to collect evidence. When
• 15:52
  Speaker 8: Mason Herring returns from vacation, so do his special drinks
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  Speaker 8: for his pregnant wife. Surveillance cameras inside their home catch
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  Speaker 8: Herring having a powdered substance from a bag in his
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  Speaker 8: pocket into a drink that he gives his wife.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, Nicole Parton joining US Crime online dot com investigative reporter, Nicole,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I don't quite understand what hold on.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Let me go to doctor Lyle D.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Braguon joining US toxicology expert president CEO of Wrapped Her
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Farm and Talks, and you can find him at Talks
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: truthblog dot com.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bragoon, thank you for being with us.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I'm really surprised that the hospital released her without identifying
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: what had happened.
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  Speaker 11: Yeah, it's not uncommon that they do that because they
• 16:39
  Speaker 11: probably don't know that she's been poisoned at this point.
• 16:43
  Speaker 11: They really have no idea, and it's it's not atypical
• 16:47
  Speaker 11: to have a woman come in with the serious pregnancy
• 16:50
  Speaker 11: complications like she has. She's currently in at that point,
• 16:53
  Speaker 11: she's in her first trimester, so it's not uncommon.
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 16:57
  Speaker 11: The thing that I would want to know is did
• 16:59
  Speaker 11: they actually check to make sure that the you know,
• 17:01
  Speaker 11: there was a heartbeat, you know, if it was present before.
• 17:03
  Speaker 11: I'm not exactly sure how long far along she was,
• 17:06
  Speaker 11: but you know, just to make sure that the you know,
• 17:08
  Speaker 11: the unborn embryo is okay.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm confused when they want to take blood tests
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: and figure out if I mean, let's do a toxicology
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: lab work.
• 17:18
  Speaker 11: They could and it's it's it's one of those things
• 17:22
  Speaker 11: where it's again, the likelihood of someone actually coming into
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  Speaker 11: the emergency room, into the emergency department with a poisoning
• 17:30
  Speaker 11: is pretty low, but it's it's actually not uncommon for
• 17:34
  Speaker 11: women to come in with with bleeding and cramps at
• 17:38
  Speaker 11: this stage. Certainly, to me, it seems a little fishing.
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  Speaker 11: You know, as a toxicologist, I probably would have ordered tests,
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  Speaker 11: but you know, not knowing exactly what it is, it's
• 17:49
  Speaker 11: hard to test for anything at this point.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Guys, we're trying to figure out exactly what happened when
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: the victim in this case was rushed to the hospital
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: with cramps and bleeding. But she she comes back home.
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  Speaker 2: Tell me about her coming back home to call parton.
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  Speaker 4: She came back home and she's still afraid to be
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: alone because she's fearing that she's losing her child. She
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: calls her mom and asks her mom to come over
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  Speaker 4: and stay with her, because remember, her husband isn't living
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: in the home. They're separated. Her mother comes over, she
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: tells her that she's having some complications with the pregnancy.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: She doesn't tell her mother that she fears her husband
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: is trying to poison her, but her mom stays with
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: her because she continues to have this abdominal pain and
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: this bleeding throughout the night.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I'm curious about that too, Julie Owens, joining US domestic
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: violence expert at Domestic violenceexpert dot org. Isn't it true, Julie,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: that is very common for domestic violence abuse victims of
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: women not to want to tell their family what's happening.
• 18:52
  Speaker 7: Oh, absolutely, you're sure, right, Nancy. And a lot of
• 18:56
  Speaker 7: times it's because they've tried before to talk about it
• 19:00
  Speaker 7: other kinds of abuse and they haven't been believed, or
• 19:02
  Speaker 7: people think they're paranoid, or they go, hey, he's such
• 19:05
  Speaker 7: a great provider.
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 19:07
  Speaker 7: Remember she could quit her job and so, you know,
• 19:10
  Speaker 7: leaving him, I don't. I know, she has her own business,
• 19:13
  Speaker 7: but it would be very difficult with two children and
• 19:17
  Speaker 7: they be on the way, presumably, And so there are
• 19:20
  Speaker 7: a lot of reasons why. It's also sometimes it could
• 19:25
  Speaker 7: be denial, but you know, who knows why victims don't
• 19:33
  Speaker 7: tell what's going on or don't leave but many times
• 19:37
  Speaker 7: it's because you know, they really they're religious. They don't
• 19:41
  Speaker 7: believe in divorce.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: They really.
• 19:44
  Speaker 7: Want to preserve that marriage. They believe that it's better
• 19:47
  Speaker 7: for the children. Maybe they came from a broken home
• 19:50
  Speaker 7: or something like that. But often I had found that women,
• 19:56
  Speaker 7: especially those who are very religious and are told, you know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 7: God hates the worce and things like that, they really
• 20:03
  Speaker 7: get that advice from people that they do confide him,
• 20:07
  Speaker 7: like maybe pastors, and maybe they go to a castor
• 20:10
  Speaker 7: somebody not like doctor Bethany who understands domestic violence.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Well, I've got another red flag to throw Dodger Bethany,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: following up on Julia Owen's is saying, so he says
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: he has to be alone to work on himself, but
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: then he goes on a vacation by himself. That's not
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: working on yourself. That's getting a ten and your man kinie.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I don't like it.
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: A vacation is definitely not working on yourself.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know this is crazy, and I do
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: not harangue him about this because I want him to
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: feel free. But even when David isn't there for my husband,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: David for supper with us at night, I really miss him.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: I always set his plate there just in case he
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: comes and shows up, even late. So it's really hard
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: for me to believe in a time when she's pregnant,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: he goes on a vacation.
• 20:57
  Speaker 6: You know, it's so true, Nancy. You know that would
• 21:00
  Speaker 6: that the time that a man would want to be
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: with his wife. But sadly, we know that homicide is
• 21:06
  Speaker 6: the leading injury related cause of death for pregnant women.
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: You know, not all men want a child, and in
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: this case, he probably did not want to take up
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: the responsibilities of fatherhood. He wants to lead another life.
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: I'm sure he was on a vacation with the other woman,
• 21:22
  Speaker 6: and we can always already see the signs of him
• 21:26
  Speaker 6: having a double life. But I think she is a victim.
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: The fact that she set up cameras in the house
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: means she's a pretty brave woman and she's not your
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: typical victim, because she swung into action when she realized
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: something was amiss.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: So do I understand cole Parton that the victim in
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: this case hires a private investigator.
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: She does, That's correct. She wants to find out exactly
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: what's going on, and she does hire this private investigator
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: who gives her great advice and helps her install these
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: cameras so that she can now see what's happening. When
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: he comes over, he's bringing her her favorite drink from
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: Sonic Orange Juice water, her favorite biscuits, and now she's
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: able to watch on the video and see exactly what's happening.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Joining me right now, Special guest Michael Yvanez, former Houston
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Police homicide detective, licensed private investigator, and you can find
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: him at why the letter, why to investigations dot com. Michael,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. You know I've tried
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of homicide. I'm sure you have investigated a
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: lot of homicides. Death by poison is actually fairly rare.
• 22:40
  Speaker 12: It is the answer. In my career, I've touched on
• 22:45
  Speaker 12: thousands of domestic violence cases that came through our homicide
• 22:49
  Speaker 12: division when I was working for the Houston Police Department,
• 22:53
  Speaker 12: and poisoning is on the lower end of the investigative scale. However,
• 22:58
  Speaker 12: well makes this case not of notoriety wise is because
• 23:03
  Speaker 12: she jumped into action, like your guest said, at her
• 23:07
  Speaker 12: first suspicion and actually did much of her investigating before
• 23:11
  Speaker 12: she even went to the police.
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: Department.
• 23:13
  Speaker 12: She was smart enough to hire a private investigator right
• 23:18
  Speaker 12: up that to guide her through investigation, and he told
• 23:21
  Speaker 12: her exactly, you know what to do as far as
• 23:23
  Speaker 12: the camera is.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting what you're saying, Michael. It's Michael
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Ivanniez joining me. Former homicide detective, now licensed private investigator.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: I remember trying a really difficult arson case, and it
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: was an arson murder, of course, and I found out
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: I happened to find out that there was a parallel
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: investigation going on with the insurance company and they had
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: their own investigator. I mean, this guy burned out a
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: mansion in order to kill his wife. When I found
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: out there was an investigator for the insurance company, I
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: got him pronto. We went through the file together. We
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: went to the scene together with my regular investigator, Ernest.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: And I learned so much more.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: I was thrilled and actually called him as a witness
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: in the murder prosecution. But a lot of cops and
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: prosecutors they don't want a PI private investigator involved, and oh,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I don't get it.
• 24:25
  Speaker 12: Well, whether they wanted it or not, it was it
• 24:27
  Speaker 12: was good in her in her case because she was
• 24:30
  Speaker 12: she compiled a lot of the evidence and practically gave
• 24:33
  Speaker 12: it to the police department with a bow tie wrapped.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Around exactly tied with the boat and put on top
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: of a Christmas tree.
• 24:39
  Speaker 12: They could not ignore that evidence because it was video,
• 24:44
  Speaker 12: and it was timely, and it was it was professionally
• 24:48
  Speaker 12: obtained and legally obtained. And you know, the police department
• 24:52
  Speaker 12: can go inside your house and investigate a poisoning case
• 24:56
  Speaker 12: like that without you know, exposing themselves. So the after
• 25:00
  Speaker 12: she did must of her own investigating with the guidance
• 25:04
  Speaker 12: of the private investigator. I thought that was absolutely remarkable.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this woman, though Dr Bethany, was not just protecting
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: herself but her child, right, So that may have given
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: her the strength to follow three because if her suspicions
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: were correct, her husband's trying to not only poison her
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: but their unborn baby.
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: You don't, Nancy, the maternal instinct trumped the desire to
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: protect him. You know, we know about domestic abuse, as
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: we've been talking about it, that women are often like
• 25:33
  Speaker 6: the frog in the pot of boiling water. You know,
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: the abuse starts slowly, one interaction at a time, escalates
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: and by the time the woman realizes if she ever
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: does that she's being abused. She's so attached to the
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: man that she can't extricate herself. But in this case,
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: this victim was in a state of shock when she
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: found this out. You never found something out about somebody
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: that they betrayed you in your in total shock. You
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: start to investigate, you start to pull on every little thread. Well,
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: she did that. She was a mama bear, protecting herself,
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: her unborn child and her two other children. Who knows
• 26:11
  Speaker 6: how he was treating them.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I like the fact that she IRV.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Miller, high profile criminal defense attorney with the Miller Firm,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: that she had cameras installed.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I love video evidence, and it was reminding me OFRV.
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: Miller.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: A few of you on the panel today have covered
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: this case with me.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: A doctor, doctor.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: You you actually is accused of poisoning her husband, Jack Chin,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: with draino. He got suspicious because he had all these
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: horrible stomach lacerations and stomach problems. She put Erv Miller
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: a camera to get a wide shot of the kitchen,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: and then he put a camera in the kitchen cabinet.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: You see the purp, the alleged purp walking over to
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: the kitchen cabinet, opening it up.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Then you see a hand.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Reach in and take out of all things, draino and
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: it's written DRAINO across the top of the can and
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: pouring it in his drink. He had some concoction he
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: drank every morning, probably a health drink, and she was
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: poisoning him. This woman here had the wherewithal to install cameras.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: God bless her, IRV. I know you defense attorneys say that,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: but I think it was a great move.
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm a former prosecutor as well as you well
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: know that all the prosecutors want what this knows a
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: magic word, and that magic word is corroboration. You don't
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: want to just have to rely on the testimony of
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: a witness of credibility issues. You want cameras, you want
• 27:51
  Speaker 5: a handwrig yannello, you want confessions. You want corroboration. And
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: that's what this lady gave to the Uston Police Department
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: when she walked in that front or the police station.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Because you're the best of this, EARV.
• 28:03
  Speaker 12: Miller.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine this lady, the victim on cross examination,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: the defense would get a hold of her and not
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: let go until tis she was.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Torn to shreds. Because she'd be testifying against her husband,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: the lawyer, the one with the money, who was having
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: an affair with a woman she hated, so they could
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: easily claim it was all a big lie, or even
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: that she poisoned herself if she didn't have that video
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: evidence of of Miller.
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: And you go back to the bottom line, he was
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: trying to kill an unborn child. Man, it doesn't get
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: much worse than that.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: No, it does not.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Guys what happens next, listen, Mason Herring is captured on
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: surveillance camera taking trash from his truck and placing the
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: trash on the curb. Catherine Herring retrieves the trash and
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: finds a blister pack of cyrix, a generic version of mysoprostal,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: the drug most commonly used to induce an abortion. Katherine
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Herring meets with Houston police. Charges are filed, but a
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: change in the District Attorney's office slows down the case.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Katherine Herring's daughter is born ten weeks premature and spends
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: seven weeks in the neonatal intensive care unit. At one
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: year old, the little girl attends therapy eight times per
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: week for special needs.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Wow, boy, I'm just a JD. I need an EMD.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Pronto Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Doctor Lyle D. Bragoon
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: joining me toxicology expert at toxictruthblog dot com.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bragoon, again, thank you for being with us. What
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: did she just say? Number one?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: The thing that jumps out at me the most is
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: the little baby is born very prematurely. Gee, I wonder
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: why and had to spend seven weeks in the neonatal
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: intensive care unit.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: But what is this? This drug?
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: She finds out in the trash. She watches her husband
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: throw out some trash and finds a blister pack of
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: cyrus See why are you X? A generic version of
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: miss a prostaal.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: What's that?
• 30:27
  Speaker 11: Yeah, so mister prostyl or missus prestall, it's it's a
• 30:31
  Speaker 11: what we call a prostaglandin analog. What that means is,
• 30:35
  Speaker 11: you know, it's typically for most adults who might have
• 30:38
  Speaker 11: ulcers from taking like ibuprofen or you know, a leave
• 30:42
  Speaker 11: or something like that. Uh, they would take this to
• 30:45
  Speaker 11: help prevent you know, stomach ulcus from exacerbating. But it's
• 30:49
  Speaker 11: also the second drug in the two drug cocktail for
• 30:52
  Speaker 11: chemical abortion. The first drug is are you forty six
• 30:56
  Speaker 11: or miss eprostone, and the second one is microcetosol. And
• 31:00
  Speaker 11: what it does is it actually causes uterine contractions, So
• 31:04
  Speaker 11: it stimulates the uterine muscles to push and contract and
• 31:08
  Speaker 11: that's what actually causes the expulsion of the uh, you know,
• 31:11
  Speaker 11: the fetus and all the other materials. H it's extremely painful.
• 31:17
  Speaker 11: You're going to get all kinds of bleeding and it's
• 31:19
  Speaker 11: it's it's horrible. And anyone who's ever had a chemical
• 31:23
  Speaker 11: abortion can tell you it is just excruciating. This the pain.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: So he we believe is poisoning her with ods of
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: the abortion pill.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Is is that what he essentially would be doing, Doctor Burgoon.
• 31:40
  Speaker 11: That that is exactly that is exactly what he's trying
• 31:43
  Speaker 11: to do, and that is exactly how he's doing it.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Could that kill an adult female?
• 31:48
  Speaker 11: Unlikely unless the bleeding doesn't get under control.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: So she could bleed out, but it would definitely kill
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the baby.
• 31:57
  Speaker 11: Uh yeah, I if it were successful, it would potentially
• 32:02
  Speaker 11: kill the baby. Absolutely.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: These two have been married over ten years. This is
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: her third child with her husband. She becomes alarmed after
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: the breakfast in bed he gave her on VAK left
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: her bleeding, then she spends weeks collecting evidence and discovers
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: that he is crushing up abortion pills and putting in
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: her food. Nicole Parton, just imagine all the pain that
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: he induced on his wife and then the baby. The
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: baby girl is born very prematurely and nearly dies in Nick,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: you right, And to.
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: Think that he didn't just try to kill the baby once.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: He did this seven times, seven different times he put
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: the poison in her drinks. This baby was born ten
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: weeks early. Still she has special needs, she's on a
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: feeding tube, she's in speech therapy, physical therapy, occupational therapy,
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: and on a personal note, as a mom of a
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: special needs son, I know what that is like. I
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: can't imagine the pain this mother suffered from the drug.
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: But I can't imagine the pain or I can imagine
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: the pain this mother suffers with her special needs daughters.
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: And that because the little baby's daddy tried to kill her.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Let me go to our medical doctor joining us, Doctor Burgoon,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Doctor Bragoon, How would the abortion pill cause the little
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: girl all of these well.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: A lifetime, a lifetime of disability.
• 33:47
  Speaker 11: Yeah, the science is starting to stack up that if
• 33:52
  Speaker 11: you have such a traumatic event, you know where you
• 33:55
  Speaker 11: basically have this huge loss of blood in the first trimester.
• 34:00
  Speaker 11: We tend to see an increase association with preterm birth
• 34:04
  Speaker 11: and with pre term birth, which we know happened in
• 34:06
  Speaker 11: this case. Unfortunately, Uh, the the body, the baby's body
• 34:11
  Speaker 11: just isn't as well developed as it should be and
• 34:15
  Speaker 11: it doesn't have the time that needs to fully develop,
• 34:17
  Speaker 11: and so we do see occasionally, you know, increases in
• 34:21
  Speaker 11: brain damage, especially if there was you know, a lot
• 34:24
  Speaker 11: you know, this massive loss of blood in the first
• 34:27
  Speaker 11: trimester that could affect you know, the developing brain.
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 34:31
  Speaker 11: And then you know, just just over time being in
• 34:33
  Speaker 11: the nick you it's not a great place for children
• 34:36
  Speaker 11: to be, you know, we don't want them born that early.
• 34:39
  Speaker 11: So it's it's amazing that that she's even alive. You know,
• 34:43
  Speaker 11: let's just start there. It's amazing she's alive. It's amazing
• 34:46
  Speaker 11: that she got out of the nick you and unfortunately
• 34:48
  Speaker 11: this kind of happens.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Is everybody on the panel sitting down? Yes? Is everyone
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: sitting down?
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: IRV Miller, doctor Messidy Marshall sitting down, yep. Michael Ivanna,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: doctor Bragoon, Julie Owens, Nicole Parton, You're sitting down.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, may you may need to lay down. You may
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: need to lay down for this. He got sentenced to.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Just one hundred and eighty days behind bars. His daughter
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: is disabled forever for life. She's struggling. The marriages could
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: put he tried to kill the baby.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: And this isn't about his abortion legal or illegal. You
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: know what.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I let them fight about that in the legislature. I'm
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: talking about aggravated assault on the mother and trying to
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: kill the baby who was now left with a lifetime
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: of disability, and the mother standing by watching her child.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: I'll suffer for life.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: And he gets one hundred and eighty days behind bars.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: What jackass gave him that sentence, Nicole Parton.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: He took a plea deal, Nancy. He pleaded guilty to
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: a single count of injury to a child under fifteen.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Judge Andrea Bill, would that be the judge?
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's correct.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, Judge Andrea Bill.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Maybe you should go over and take a night shift
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: and let this mom get a good night's rest when
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: her child is suffering from disability.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Again, the goal partner, what are the disabilities?
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: She's gone feeding too? She is in speech therapy, physical therapy,
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: occupational therapy and she's diagnosed as special needs and will
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: be throughout her life.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Thanks Judge Andrea Bill. BEA's and brother e A. L.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: L At eight three two nine two seven three nine
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: two five repeat eight three two nine two seven three
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: nine two five. What's the next election, Judge Andrea Bill.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: But hey, it's not just the judge's fault. She could
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: have rejected the plea deal, but she didn't. Harris County
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: District Attorney Kim Ogg Ogg seven one three, two seven
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: four fifty.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Eight hundred rv.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Miller one hundred and eighty days behind bars Seriously.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: Well, just to give you a little insight into different jurisdiction,
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: I practice law in a jurisdiction where the attempted murder
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: of an unborn child carries with it a mandatory jail
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: term of between six and thirty years in the state penitentiary.
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: Judge does not have discretion to go below that. Not
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: one hundred and eighty days, but six years on the bottom,
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: thirty years Max. That's the better way to look at
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: this type of case.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: You need to look at this guy. He looks normal.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: He's a practicing lawyer with a great law practice.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: He should have.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Gone to trial on multi pool felonies. I don't understand
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: this huge miscarriage of justice. The district attorney, the prosecutor
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: was in on it. It was a plea deal. The
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: defense was in on it, of course, that's their job.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: The judge was in on.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: It, you know.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: To Michael Yvannyez, former Houston police officer, a homicide detective, now, PI,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: does it make it feel like, hey, why even bother
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: trying to investigate cases? When a judge and a prosecutor
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: is going to go along with the cheap sentence, Why bother?
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 38:34
  Speaker 12: You know, in my time, we had the idea that
• 38:37
  Speaker 12: we do our job, and you do what you do,
• 38:39
  Speaker 12: and you take bring the case to the conclusion and
• 38:41
  Speaker 12: the best that you can. I can say that once
• 38:43
  Speaker 12: they're investigating. Officer got this case, he ran with it.
• 38:48
  Speaker 12: He did a really good job, he said, he said.
• 38:51
  Speaker 13: He told me, in fact I spoke to him that
• 38:54
  Speaker 13: it was a case where he did most of the
• 38:59
  Speaker 13: leg work was done, but he had a whole lot
• 39:01
  Speaker 13: of other legwork to do to bring this unique charges
• 39:05
  Speaker 13: of forcing induction to an abortion and assault of a
• 39:09
  Speaker 13: pregnant person.
• 39:11
  Speaker 12: To the courts. And they agreed with it initially, but
• 39:14
  Speaker 12: as you said, he took a plea for injury to
• 39:17
  Speaker 12: a child.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: This guy is rolling rolling in money.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Mason's lawyer the founder of the Herring Law firm specializing
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: in oil rig litigation in Houston. Long story short, this
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: baby is going to grow up with a lifetime of disability.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Thanks dad. You know what.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: The judge may I let you off easy, but the
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: devil is going to get his mits on you.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Buddy. We wait as justice in false.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Good Bye,