Latest / The You Project / #1829 Texting on the Crapper (& Other Habits of Mine) - Dr. Bill Sullivan

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#1829 Texting on the Crapper (& Other Habits of Mine) - Dr. Bill Sullivan · The You Project

0:01
Speaker 1: Doctor Bill, Welcome back to the You project, my friend,
0:04
Speaker 1: how are you?
0:05
Speaker 2: I'm doing great, Craig, how about yourself?
0:07
Speaker 1: I know I am very good, very good. I tell
0:10
Speaker 1: you what. As somebody who has done a little bit
0:13
Speaker 1: of TV, or in Australia we call it telly, a
0:16
Speaker 1: little bit of telly over the years, I used to
0:18
Speaker 1: work on a show here and I used to do
0:20
Speaker 1: a weekly gig. I'm pretty impressed by your TV skills.
0:24
Speaker 1: I watched you recently talking about what we're going to
0:27
Speaker 1: talk about today. But do you like doing TV? Do
0:31
Speaker 1: you do you get stressed? Do you feel comfortable? How
0:34
Speaker 1: do you go with it?
0:36
Speaker 2: I usually don't get stressed or feel uncomfortable. The major
0:40
Speaker 2: challenge I face is trying to condense a huge amount
0:45
Speaker 2: of information into a very short period of time, because
0:49
Speaker 2: in contrast to like writing or doing podcasts like yours,
0:53
Speaker 2: I'm given three maybe five minutes tops, and there's way
0:58
Speaker 2: too much information to pack in to that. So a
1:00
Speaker 2: lot of great stuff doesn't get said, and I always
1:03
Speaker 2: feel like I forgot something important. But as far as
1:07
Speaker 2: nerves and stuff go, at least I don't have that.
1:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the ever present challenge of that kind
1:13
Speaker 1: of media because you are trying to distill mountains of information,
1:18
Speaker 1: and you know, you and I said to you before
1:21
Speaker 1: we started a minute ago, let's like keep this to
1:23
Speaker 1: about thirty minutes. Now, thirty minutes for you and I
1:26
Speaker 1: as a brief chat. But in the context of television,
1:29
Speaker 1: that's forever.
1:31
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you'd have to be a megastar to get
1:33
Speaker 2: thirty minutes of airtime on the Telly.
1:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I used to Sometimes
1:40
Speaker 1: we'd we'd go I'd go in and we'd be talking
1:43
Speaker 1: about something, you know, significant, like you know, body dysmorphia, bodage,
1:51
Speaker 1: body image, eating disorders, you know, all like this is
1:55
Speaker 1: complex and big, and you'd have yeah, like you said,
2:00
Speaker 1: five minutes, and there'd be time for by the time
2:04
Speaker 1: I answer that question, you know, I question one, and
2:06
Speaker 1: then I talk a bit, then question two, and there
2:08
Speaker 1: might be three or four questions, and then it's like, Craig,
2:11
Speaker 1: it's always great having you coming up next, you know,
2:14
Speaker 1: and then you're like, oh, well, we it's over. We
2:18
Speaker 1: didn't actually talk about anything, but thanks.
2:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. You always want to circle back to something,
2:25
Speaker 2: and that actually sometimes, especially when you're doing stuff like
2:30
Speaker 2: I do in terms of like health and medicine. Sometimes
2:34
Speaker 2: you leave out some really important information or caveats that
2:38
Speaker 2: they just don't give airtime for. So that is a
2:41
Speaker 2: real challenge and I think it sometimes does the public
2:44
Speaker 2: at disservice.
2:45
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the other part of it too is apart
2:48
Speaker 1: from the brevity, is the fact that you're trying to
2:52
Speaker 1: distill science and research and you know, daughter and blah
2:58
Speaker 1: blah blah in a way that you know, the average
3:01
Speaker 1: person sitting in their lounge eating their chicken palmesana and
3:05
Speaker 1: their fries can distill an on all their breakfast or
3:09
Speaker 1: whatever the case might be, can actually understand.
3:12
Speaker 2: Dinner time here, man, you're making me hungry.
3:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, dude, Then in a way that they can
3:18
Speaker 1: understand what you're talking about and then maybe even better
3:21
Speaker 1: operationalize that information to get some kind of benefit exactly exactly.
3:26
Speaker 2: It takes a little time to process and stuff. I
3:29
Speaker 2: get their side of the coin too. They have to
3:32
Speaker 2: pack in a huge amount of news in just like
3:34
Speaker 2: thirty minutes, and human attention span is shrinking and shrinking
3:39
Speaker 2: decade by decade, and now it's to the point where
3:42
Speaker 2: even like a ten minute segment for some people it
3:45
Speaker 2: feels like that goes on forever, and like you said,
3:48
Speaker 2: like a thirty or sixty minute chat with you, for
3:50
Speaker 2: some of these people who are used to three to
3:52
Speaker 2: five minutes snippet, this might seem like an eternity. So yeah, exactly,
3:57
Speaker 2: it's a little worrisome that the attention span is drinking
4:01
Speaker 2: so much, and I'm not quite sure that it is
4:03
Speaker 2: good for our mental health moving forward.
4:06
Speaker 1: I think because there's a there's just an overload of
4:12
Speaker 1: available stimuli in the media social media space. You know,
4:17
Speaker 1: there's like even I that was arrogant, even I doctor Bill,
4:24
Speaker 1: even I, who's clearly a genius. I can go, yeah,
4:30
Speaker 1: I can go down the Instagram rabbit hole for five minutes,
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Speaker 1: and now I look up, it's actually been thirty minutes
4:35
Speaker 1: and I'm just looking at bullshit for thirty minutes. I'm like, yeah, okay,
4:39
Speaker 1: so I'm not clever at all, and they've figured me out.
4:42
Speaker 1: The algorithm has got the better of me.
4:45
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, it knows us better than we know ourselves.
4:49
Speaker 1: Oh, Socrates would be rolling in his grave.
4:53
Speaker 2: I tell you, there was a there was a song.
4:56
Speaker 2: You mean you mean that you probably know the group
4:58
Speaker 2: Duran Duran right big down Under two. They had a
5:02
Speaker 2: song called too Much Information that was released in the
5:05
Speaker 2: early nineties before the Internet was even a thing. So
5:08
Speaker 2: I'm wondering, you know, if they thought there was too
5:10
Speaker 2: much information in the world even before the Internet, what
5:13
Speaker 2: they must think now, because, like you said, there's just
5:17
Speaker 2: so much stuff out there, and our minds simply aren't
5:20
Speaker 2: wired to absorb and receive all this information. It just
5:26
Speaker 2: not built that way. You know. We're a you know,
5:30
Speaker 2: a primate species that's used to sitting around a campfire
5:33
Speaker 2: and telling stories about no more than like one hundred
5:35
Speaker 2: different people. That's how we evolved for millennia. So to
5:40
Speaker 2: ask us to be able to manage the extraordinary amount
5:45
Speaker 2: of information that's out there right now is just a
5:47
Speaker 2: herculean task. And I think a lot of people stress
5:51
Speaker 2: themselves out because they don't get to all the information
5:54
Speaker 2: that's there. And we shouldn't be doing that, you know,
5:57
Speaker 2: we just should be acknowledging our limitations and trained to
6:01
Speaker 2: actually cut back on all the different types of media
6:05
Speaker 2: we absorb, with exception, of course, of the U Project podcast.
6:10
Speaker 1: Which has been proven clinically to be life extending, an
6:15
Speaker 1: immune system supportive, and a myriad of other benefits. I'm
6:20
Speaker 1: pretty sure about the science. I couldn't quote you, but
6:22
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure.
6:24
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure I read studies to that effect too. Man.
6:27
Speaker 1: But then, also, apart from the overload, doc is also
6:30
Speaker 1: the how does the average punter, and I call me
6:34
Speaker 1: an average punter delineate differentiate between the information, the misinformation,
6:41
Speaker 1: the science, the pseudoscience, the actual research based psychology, the
6:46
Speaker 1: pop psychology, because it all kind of can look and
6:50
Speaker 1: feel and sound the same, and you don't know what
6:53
Speaker 1: is real and what is essentially fear mongering, what is pseudoscience,
7:00
Speaker 1: what is perhaps marketing and branding to sell you something.
7:05
Speaker 2: It's getting harder and harder every day because with the
7:09
Speaker 2: ability to manufacture photo and video, and there's a lot
7:14
Speaker 2: of jokes in satire that go viral before people realize, oh,
7:18
Speaker 2: that was a joke, that's not real. We've got to
7:21
Speaker 2: be very careful about trusting the information we have. So
7:26
Speaker 2: my advice in that regard is to simply identify reliable
7:32
Speaker 2: sources that you can count on, that are accredited or
7:36
Speaker 2: have some kind of expert analysis, that have been around
7:41
Speaker 2: for a long period of time, maybe who have been
7:44
Speaker 2: audited or reviewed by a third party that says, yes,
7:48
Speaker 2: this is a legitimate news source. That's what you have
7:52
Speaker 2: to rely on, and even they sometimes will get it wrong.
7:56
Speaker 2: So everything you hear, it's nice to validate it through
7:58
Speaker 2: an independent source.
8:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, definitely all right, So let's get to our
8:03
Speaker 1: topic at hand, he says, as he picks up his iPhone.
8:07
Speaker 1: That's clearly germ laden. So you did you sent me
8:11
Speaker 1: a couple of ur Well, you sent me an interview
8:14
Speaker 1: that I watched in an article that was written by
8:16
Speaker 1: Jasmine Cheers. I think her name is Indiana Health. Recently,
8:22
Speaker 1: both good interviews. The TV show needs to give you
8:26
Speaker 1: more air time. I'll let them know. But around I
8:31
Speaker 1: think the name of the hang on, I'll find it.
8:33
Speaker 1: I've got it. I've got it. Keeping your phone clean
8:36
Speaker 1: can help present prevent you from getting sick. So I've
8:40
Speaker 1: written two working titles for today's episode. One is called
8:48
Speaker 1: one is called Texting on the Crapper and Other Great
8:51
Speaker 1: bark Pastimes, and the other one is called the Perils
8:56
Speaker 1: of Pooh Scrolling. So I'm not sure. I'm not sure
9:00
Speaker 1: what I'm going to go with. It depends on the conversation.
9:03
Speaker 1: But let's open the door doc.
9:05
Speaker 2: You know, I can't wait to put that title on
9:08
Speaker 2: my website. That's just going to be wonderful.
9:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you could maybe do a paper on that,
9:14
Speaker 1: the perils of post scrolling. I feel like it's going
9:16
Speaker 1: to get both academic and media attention.
9:20
Speaker 2: Well, well, this story about germs on our cell phone
9:24
Speaker 2: comes up every now and then whenever another news study
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Speaker 2: kind of confirms the same thing or finds a new
9:32
Speaker 2: type of germ on the phone that hasn't been reported before,
9:35
Speaker 2: you see this. You know, you know, this information gets
9:39
Speaker 2: circulated through the major news channels time and time again,
9:44
Speaker 2: but it is It is a good reminder to folks
9:46
Speaker 2: because I think we take a lot for granted when
9:49
Speaker 2: it comes to our phone and we don't recognize it
9:52
Speaker 2: as a potential germ spreading device. And especially you know,
9:57
Speaker 2: if you have young kids or other people might use
9:59
Speaker 2: your and then you're using it, that's when a lot
10:02
Speaker 2: of nasty germs can get spread around. So the way
10:06
Speaker 2: this another headline that you might want to consider for
10:10
Speaker 2: the title of this particular episode, Craig. One of the
10:13
Speaker 2: lovely analogies that someone made is that your cell phone
10:18
Speaker 2: actually has more germs on it than your average toilet seat.
10:22
Speaker 2: And that's that's science right there. That's a demonstrable fact.
10:27
Speaker 2: Of course, it depends on the toilet seat you're looking at.
10:31
Speaker 2: But I think what they were going after is that
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Speaker 2: there's a wider diversity of germs on your phone than
10:37
Speaker 2: you would find, say, in a restroom. And we can
10:40
Speaker 2: talk about some of those different types of germs that
10:43
Speaker 2: scientists have cultivated off the phones. And I'll stay right
10:47
Speaker 2: up front, this is not to start a panic or
10:49
Speaker 2: to get people paranoid about using their phones. Just because
10:54
Speaker 2: researchers can cultivate certain germs off the phone doesn't necessarily
11:01
Speaker 2: mean they're making people sick on a wide scale. It
11:05
Speaker 2: means the potential is there, and the science that shows
11:10
Speaker 2: these germs are present on the phone is good. You know,
11:14
Speaker 2: it's been shown multiple times, not through just like a
11:17
Speaker 2: one off study or one laboratory. A study came out
11:20
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty that looked at all the cell phone
11:23
Speaker 2: analyzes and it looked at them collectively. It was composed
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Speaker 2: of like somewhere north of fifty different studies in twenty
11:32
Speaker 2: four different countries, and they're all finding the same things.
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Speaker 2: Our cell phones are filthy, and they contain these microscopic
11:39
Speaker 2: germs that we can't see, and they could be making
11:43
Speaker 2: us sick. And the could be making us sick. Is
11:46
Speaker 2: important to emphasize because there's a lot fewer studies that
11:49
Speaker 2: actually show the germs on the phone can make people sick.
11:53
Speaker 2: But since the potential is there, I think it's worth
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Speaker 2: talking about. It's worth letting people know because they're simple
11:59
Speaker 2: precautions you can take just in case you're worried about
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Speaker 2: getting sick from germs on your phone.
12:05
Speaker 1: You'd be very proud of me. I had to look
12:07
Speaker 1: at that scoping review. There's a lot of authors on
12:10
Speaker 1: that paper, and it's yeah, I think you're right, like
12:15
Speaker 1: correlation is not necessarily you know, causation. But and also
12:20
Speaker 1: the thing, it's really about awareness, not panic. You know.
12:26
Speaker 1: It's like, well, so this is happening, just so you know,
12:29
Speaker 1: you don't need to run around now and be stressed,
12:32
Speaker 1: but just so that you're aware this is I think also,
12:37
Speaker 1: like I'm looking at my phone, which is just a
12:40
Speaker 1: run of the mill bread and butter iPhone fourteen.
12:43
Speaker 2: Well, I can see the germs on it from here.
12:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll look at it.
12:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that is just crawling
12:50
Speaker 2: with germs. Yeah, it's where have you been, Craig.
12:53
Speaker 1: It's like a bloody science experiment all by yourself. But
12:57
Speaker 1: I think the beauty of these is that because it's
13:01
Speaker 1: just a clean glass surface compared to you know, not
13:05
Speaker 1: long ago we had all the phones with all the
13:07
Speaker 1: buttons and all the kind of crevices and nooks and
13:11
Speaker 1: crannies that I guess dirt and scum and whatever could
13:14
Speaker 1: get caught in. So I don't know. My guess would
13:17
Speaker 1: be that these would be less of a risk than
13:20
Speaker 1: something with a lot of moving parts and kind of buttons.
13:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, you might be right about that. But some of
13:28
Speaker 2: the types of bacteria, for example, that they've cultured off
13:32
Speaker 2: the phone, and I can elaborate on what those germs
13:37
Speaker 2: are exactly. They can form these substances called biofilms. And
13:43
Speaker 2: again these are still still microscopic. You can't see them,
13:46
Speaker 2: you can't feel them, but they can actually settle on
13:49
Speaker 2: any smooth surface. It doesn't necessarily need to have texture
13:53
Speaker 2: or ridges. You know that the germs can hide in.
13:56
Speaker 2: They can form on flat surfaces, and depending on the
13:59
Speaker 2: nature of the germ, some last longer out in the
14:03
Speaker 2: atmosphere than others, you know, and they can be transmissible.
14:07
Speaker 2: They'll get onto your phone, which get onto your finger.
14:11
Speaker 2: You put your finger into your mouth when you're eating
14:14
Speaker 2: or something like that, and there's the potential for germs
14:17
Speaker 2: to get inside your body that way.
14:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was funny you said that because I put
14:22
Speaker 1: my phone down, and you can say this, my listeners can't.
14:25
Speaker 1: But then I went like.
14:26
Speaker 3: This where I've literally I'm resting my elbows on the
14:30
Speaker 3: desk and then I've got my face my lips pressed
14:33
Speaker 3: up against my prayer hands while I'm concentrating on you.
14:37
Speaker 1: And as that was coming out of your mouth, I'm like, yep,
14:40
Speaker 1: well I'm doing that right now. It is funny, how
14:44
Speaker 1: for great?
14:44
Speaker 2: Yeah?
14:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you do it unconsciously, that's right.
14:50
Speaker 2: I forget the exact number, but there were studies that
14:53
Speaker 2: monitored how many times a day people would just naturally
14:56
Speaker 2: touch their face and it's ridiculously hot. I forget what
15:00
Speaker 2: the exact amount is, but you just illustrated perfectly what
15:05
Speaker 2: most people do every day. You use the phone, sometimes
15:08
Speaker 2: on the toilet, and then bam, you know, you're picking
15:12
Speaker 2: picking your ear, You're rubbing your eye, picking your ear,
15:16
Speaker 2: picking your nose whatever. The point is, those dirty fingers
15:21
Speaker 2: go right up to your face more often than not.
15:24
Speaker 1: It's so funny because when we think about, you know,
15:28
Speaker 1: personal health management, we don't think about how often do
15:32
Speaker 1: I clean my phone? You know, that's not a question
15:36
Speaker 1: that's ever asked. Yeah, that's not a question that's asked
15:39
Speaker 1: in any medical consult So tell me, Brian, how often
15:43
Speaker 1: do you clean that phone that's there on the desk?
15:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm glad this is why you wanted to
15:50
Speaker 2: talk about the subject, because it's one that most people
15:52
Speaker 2: don't give any thought to, you know, like you, they
15:55
Speaker 2: think that phone is a pretty smooth surface these days,
15:59
Speaker 2: and you know, probably doesn't have a lot of germs
16:03
Speaker 2: on it. But according to these studies, it actually does.
16:07
Speaker 2: And it's not too surprising if you give it a
16:09
Speaker 2: little more deeper thought because we take these things everywhere
16:13
Speaker 2: we go. They're always with us, almost like an attached limb, right,
16:18
Speaker 2: and we rarely give any thought to cleaning them. Nor
16:23
Speaker 2: do we wash our hands after we use the phone.
16:26
Speaker 2: You know, we will go right from phone usage to
16:29
Speaker 2: eating or putting on makeup or something like that, and
16:33
Speaker 2: without washing our hands in between, and that just you know,
16:38
Speaker 2: if these studies are right and there's a lot of
16:39
Speaker 2: germs on the phone, that could be one of the
16:42
Speaker 2: reasons why you might get sick and say, how did
16:46
Speaker 2: that happen? I wasn't around sick people. I don't know
16:49
Speaker 2: how I got sick. Well, now the phone can be
16:52
Speaker 2: one of the possibilities.
16:54
Speaker 1: When I read the article this morning earlier, I went
16:58
Speaker 1: into my bathroom. So I have a thing. This is
17:01
Speaker 1: a side note, but I have a thing called pernicious anemia.
17:03
Speaker 1: So I need to inject a vitamin B twelve about
17:07
Speaker 1: once a week. And part of that is little medical
17:11
Speaker 1: swabs swab things, you know, where you wipe the skin
17:14
Speaker 1: and then you inject and then you wipe it and
17:16
Speaker 1: then you whatever. So I've got a bunch of those.
17:20
Speaker 1: And I took my phone out of the case and
17:23
Speaker 1: cleaned it within an inch of its life with a
17:26
Speaker 1: medical swab, So for at least a solid three minutes
17:30
Speaker 1: it was super clean.
17:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet it probably would have been much cleaner
17:36
Speaker 2: after that.
17:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what should we use to clean it? Like,
17:40
Speaker 1: what's actually for people listening to this now, who go, well,
17:43
Speaker 1: I don't have those at my joint. What is effective.
17:47
Speaker 1: What's a good cleaning, whatever compound.
17:51
Speaker 2: A good way to I mean, there's multiple different types
17:53
Speaker 2: of germs on the phone. There's going to be viruses,
17:56
Speaker 2: there's going to be bacteria, and we should talk about
17:59
Speaker 2: the just so people have a better idea as to
18:02
Speaker 2: exactly what types of things we're dealing with. And even
18:06
Speaker 2: in some of the studies they found fungal spores like Candida,
18:09
Speaker 2: which can cause yeast infections. Find all of those on
18:13
Speaker 2: these phones, but all of them can be wiped out
18:17
Speaker 2: with an alcohol based disinfectant wipe. So I assume they
18:22
Speaker 2: sell these in Australia as well. They easy to come
18:26
Speaker 2: by in the States, and they're just like single use wipes.
18:29
Speaker 2: You take them out of the pack your phone, give
18:33
Speaker 2: your phone a good rub down with one of those.
18:35
Speaker 2: It'll smell a little ALCOHOLI that's just fine, But that
18:40
Speaker 2: will disinfect your phone really well and it won't damage
18:43
Speaker 2: the electronics. And if you're looking for other ways to
18:47
Speaker 2: do it, I would consult the manufacturer's instructions because you
18:50
Speaker 2: do want to make sure whatever you're using doesn't damage
18:54
Speaker 2: the device itself. I read the chlorox disinfectant wipes are
18:59
Speaker 2: also good as long as they don't have bleach. Bleaches
19:02
Speaker 2: too corrosive and that can start to damage the finish
19:05
Speaker 2: that is on some of the phones. The last thing
19:09
Speaker 2: you want to do is like submerge it in like
19:11
Speaker 2: a soap and water bath or use you know, like
19:15
Speaker 2: too much alcohol on it. The wipes are they can
19:18
Speaker 2: they're not saturated with the alcohol, disinfect that they have
19:22
Speaker 2: just enough to kill the germs and clean off something
19:25
Speaker 2: small like an iPhone or even an iPad and then
19:29
Speaker 2: you can throw them right away. You can do multiple
19:32
Speaker 2: devices with a single wipe as well, you know, if
19:35
Speaker 2: you want to conserve. Yeah, but that all goes with
19:40
Speaker 2: all those different types of germs.
19:42
Speaker 1: Well, one of those one of the good things to
19:46
Speaker 1: come out of the pandemic, if I can say there
19:49
Speaker 1: was a good thing but anyway, was in you know,
19:54
Speaker 1: in Australia. We've spoken about this briefly, but the gyms
19:57
Speaker 1: were closed for nearly a year, like it was lo
20:00
Speaker 1: down anyway. As somebody who trains every day, that was
20:06
Speaker 1: somewhat distressing, but enough about my emotional and psychological issues
20:11
Speaker 1: and addictions. Anyway, one of the good things to come
20:13
Speaker 1: out of it was that in well, the gym I
20:16
Speaker 1: train at anyway, they have these wipes that get pulled
20:19
Speaker 1: out of like a dispenser doctor bill. They're about the
20:21
Speaker 1: size of a tissue I guess a kleenex, and they're wet,
20:27
Speaker 1: they're kind of all they're dampish, and they are I
20:30
Speaker 1: think they're alcohol based, and they're used for cleaning. And
20:35
Speaker 1: you know, because gyms are breeding grounds for everything, and
20:41
Speaker 1: you think about how many times a day you know,
20:45
Speaker 1: like a barbell, a bar that sits on a bench press.
20:48
Speaker 1: There's not often when I like the gym that I
20:51
Speaker 1: train at, there's only two free weeight bench presses. You know,
20:57
Speaker 1: there's pinloaded, there's other things, but in those bench presses
21:01
Speaker 1: with a bar bell on it, they are never not used.
21:04
Speaker 1: Like it's that that bar would get touched hundreds of
21:08
Speaker 1: times a day by hundreds of people, most of whom
21:12
Speaker 1: don't wipe the bar down after they're finished or wipe
21:15
Speaker 1: their hands. Some do, but most don't. Yeah, there's I mean,
21:22
Speaker 1: talk about an environment with a million surfaces with a
21:26
Speaker 1: trillion bugs.
21:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just sounds like a golden opportunity for some
21:30
Speaker 2: of these germs to get into people and spread around.
21:33
Speaker 2: And I'm sure you've also observed people going to the
21:37
Speaker 2: gym when they're obviously sick or still struggling with something.
21:41
Speaker 2: You know, they're still getting over some illness, but they're
21:44
Speaker 2: there and they're probably transmitting these germs.
21:49
Speaker 1: And you think about we're all in a room where
21:51
Speaker 1: the door closed and everyone's breathing heavier and harder than normal.
21:56
Speaker 2: You know, the gym is not the only place of
22:02
Speaker 2: all places, you know, I've been to microbiology lectures where
22:06
Speaker 2: there's someone sitting there coughing through the whole damn thing,
22:10
Speaker 2: or you know, sneezing like crazy, just a couple of
22:12
Speaker 2: seats down for you. And I'm like, you're at a
22:15
Speaker 2: microbiology lecture talking about germs, and here you are spreading
22:21
Speaker 2: yours all around, And I just like, man, So it's
22:26
Speaker 2: certainly not limited to the gym, and everyone should just
22:29
Speaker 2: kind of be a little more considerate of other people.
22:32
Speaker 2: If you are actively sick and having symptoms, you shouldn't
22:36
Speaker 2: be going out in public if you can avoid it.
22:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that is that is ro any being in
22:42
Speaker 1: that audience.
22:43
Speaker 2: Just tell me about it. Yeah, it's like that is
22:46
Speaker 2: the epitome of you know, bad human nature.
22:51
Speaker 1: So there's also and again this is a question not
22:56
Speaker 1: an assertion, but there's an idea that exposure to bacteria, viruses, fungi,
23:03
Speaker 1: and other micro organisms ply a role in developing a
23:08
Speaker 1: level of immunity or strengthening the immune system. What's that?
23:12
Speaker 1: Do we have any idea around because I'm thinking someone
23:16
Speaker 1: raised in a completely sanitary environment, which can't really happen,
23:21
Speaker 1: but that's not going to be great for us, say that.
23:23
Speaker 1: Is there any kind of thinking around that.
23:27
Speaker 2: What you're describing sounds like the hygiene hypothesis, And this
23:31
Speaker 2: is an idea that, especially during our younger years, when
23:36
Speaker 2: we're still developing, we need to be exposed to a
23:40
Speaker 2: certain amount of germs in order to educate our immune
23:43
Speaker 2: system how to fight these germs off later on. And
23:49
Speaker 2: a lot of these studies emerged out of the observations
23:52
Speaker 2: that people in cities usually have a lot more allergies
23:57
Speaker 2: and stuff than people who are raised on farms. And
24:00
Speaker 2: the idea was the people who are raised on farms
24:03
Speaker 2: are exposed to a lot more germs, okay than people
24:07
Speaker 2: in cities perhaps, And I'm not sure that's entirely true.
24:10
Speaker 2: You know, with the number of people in cities, I'm
24:12
Speaker 2: not sure they control accurately for transmissibility from human to human.
24:17
Speaker 2: But the argument goes that we get a lot of illnesses,
24:20
Speaker 2: a lot of bugs from animals and you know, maybe
24:23
Speaker 2: the outdoor environment. So I think this hypothesis is intriguing,
24:29
Speaker 2: but there's really no evidence to back it up. There's
24:31
Speaker 2: a lot of correlations. At the moment. I would not
24:35
Speaker 2: advise people going out and getting sick on purpose just
24:39
Speaker 2: to build up your immunity. You know, you want to
24:42
Speaker 2: avoid getting sick, you know, because some of these things
24:45
Speaker 2: can be very dangerous, and every time we have to
24:48
Speaker 2: pull out the antibiotics from the medicine cabinet, there's a
24:53
Speaker 2: chance that these bugs can gain resistance to that, and
24:56
Speaker 2: that's not good for society at large. Need to be
25:00
Speaker 2: very very careful about being laxadaisical about illnesses because the
25:06
Speaker 2: medicines we have in most cases are still great, but
25:10
Speaker 2: they're very precious, and these bugs can evolve resistance to them,
25:14
Speaker 2: and that gets pretty scary, and that makes me want
25:17
Speaker 2: to circle back to some of the bacteria that scientists
25:21
Speaker 2: have in fact found on phones. So and this is
25:24
Speaker 2: where it gets a little concerning for me. When I
25:27
Speaker 2: read that they can culture a bacteria called staphylococcus off
25:31
Speaker 2: of phones. I was like, that's no big deal. Staphylococcus
25:35
Speaker 2: is a very common bacteria, usually harmless, and it's on
25:39
Speaker 2: everybody's skin. The only time it really becomes a problem
25:43
Speaker 2: is if that staphylococcus gets inside of a cut, and
25:46
Speaker 2: then you could get a wound infection. But there's a
25:49
Speaker 2: type of Staffolo caucus that you've probably heard of and
25:52
Speaker 2: many of your listeners probably heard of, called MRSA, and
25:57
Speaker 2: MRSA is a type of staphylococcus that is highly resistant
26:01
Speaker 2: to antibiotics and it becomes very difficult to treat. It
26:05
Speaker 2: can lead to a life threatening infection, and a lot
26:09
Speaker 2: of these studies surprisingly cultivated the MRSA version of staphylococcus
26:15
Speaker 2: off of people's phones. I suspect that might have happened
26:20
Speaker 2: for people who might have gone to the off the
26:23
Speaker 2: doctor's office or the hospital or some kind of medical
26:27
Speaker 2: care facility where there's a lot more MERSA than the
26:30
Speaker 2: general environment. And that leads me to one of the
26:33
Speaker 2: other precautions that people should take is don't use your
26:36
Speaker 2: phone if you don't have to in a doctor's office
26:40
Speaker 2: or a hospital setting. Those areas have a lot more
26:44
Speaker 2: germs inside because there's a lot more sick people there,
26:47
Speaker 2: So I would be a little extra careful about using
26:50
Speaker 2: or keeping my phone clean if it's been in some
26:54
Speaker 2: kind of medical facility. Other bacteria they find on the
26:58
Speaker 2: phones are Streptococcus, which causes strep throat, And that's a
27:02
Speaker 2: little bit alarming because a lot of people still hold
27:05
Speaker 2: their phone right up to their face when they talk,
27:07
Speaker 2: when they have a conversation, and if you got streptococcus
27:11
Speaker 2: on that phone, it could easily get too close to
27:13
Speaker 2: your mouth and you can maybe get it back there
27:16
Speaker 2: and get strep throat. And then of course there's the
27:19
Speaker 2: really unpleasant ones. But some of the most common ones
27:23
Speaker 2: that are found on phone and not surprising, the fecal bacteria, Okay,
27:28
Speaker 2: E Coli Anerococcus. A lot of people have a bad
27:32
Speaker 2: habit of using their phone in the restroom, Craig, I
27:36
Speaker 2: see you're blushing right now.
27:37
Speaker 1: Who would not people do that? Is that a thing?
27:41
Speaker 2: Apparently it's very common. But E Coli and Innerococcus, these
27:46
Speaker 2: fecal bacteria are not something you want on your phone
27:49
Speaker 2: because if they do get into your body, that's going
27:52
Speaker 2: to cause you some really unpleasant gastro intestinal illness. Okay,
27:57
Speaker 2: you were talking about gnawedge of vomiting direa, the whole works,
28:02
Speaker 2: so you want to avoid that, another really unpleasant one.
28:06
Speaker 2: We're leaving bacteria and going to viruses. Now. One of
28:11
Speaker 2: the more common viruses that are found on phones is neurovirus. Now,
28:16
Speaker 2: neurovirus is alarming, and it's usually associated with the cruise ships.
28:22
Speaker 2: You know, when everybody on board catches neurovirus, everyone on
28:27
Speaker 2: board is rushing to the toilet because they got diarrhea.
28:32
Speaker 2: It's a really unpleasant illness and there's really no good treatment.
28:35
Speaker 2: But the good news is it goes away in a
28:37
Speaker 2: couple of days. But like any diarrheal disease, the main
28:41
Speaker 2: danger is dehydration. If people can't put in liquids quick
28:45
Speaker 2: enough or hold them down, you could get dehydrated to
28:49
Speaker 2: a point where you need to go to the hospital.
28:52
Speaker 2: So it can get dangerous, and it's particularly dangerous for
28:56
Speaker 2: the very young, the very old, people with pre existing conditions,
29:01
Speaker 2: and anyone who's immune compromised. If you fall into any
29:04
Speaker 2: of those groups, you're even more vulnerable than a normal
29:09
Speaker 2: healthy adult, so you should take extra special care. So
29:13
Speaker 2: neuoravirus is also alarming because it's one of these bugs
29:17
Speaker 2: that is stable for a long period of time. A
29:21
Speaker 2: lot of these germs that we're talking about, they don't
29:23
Speaker 2: survive in the atmosphere very long. Okay, fungal spores can,
29:29
Speaker 2: some bacteria can, but neurovirus can survive for weeks on
29:35
Speaker 2: the surface of your phone. So there's a high chance
29:38
Speaker 2: if it's on your phone that it could get into
29:40
Speaker 2: your body or into the body of someone else who
29:43
Speaker 2: might use your phone, and then, like I said, you're
29:46
Speaker 2: going to get a really unpleasant gastro intestinal illness. Other
29:52
Speaker 2: viruses on the phone include respiratory ones. They can cause
29:55
Speaker 2: pneumonia or the flu, So you want to, you know,
30:00
Speaker 2: be careful of that, especially at the height of flu season.
30:03
Speaker 2: Maybe you want to keep your phone a little extra
30:05
Speaker 2: clean during that time too.
30:07
Speaker 1: Hm. Wow. So one of the takeaways today everyone is
30:12
Speaker 1: you're better off to press your face up against a
30:15
Speaker 1: toilet seat than a phone.
30:18
Speaker 2: Of the episode right there.
30:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's doctor doctor Bill's advice.
30:24
Speaker 2: He's sign my name to that one, but.
30:27
Speaker 1: He's not suggesting you do either. But what he has
30:29
Speaker 1: said statistically, kiss your toilet that's what he said. No
30:34
Speaker 1: he didn't. You know. One as we're winding up, one
30:38
Speaker 1: thing I think about Doc and I have maybe I
30:41
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a I don't have a phobia,
30:44
Speaker 1: but maybe I have an issue. I'm always aware when
30:47
Speaker 1: I walk into restaurants, cafes, wherever, hotels, wherever I'm going,
30:51
Speaker 1: how many hands have been on the handle I'm about
30:54
Speaker 1: to touch, sure, you know. And so if there's a
30:58
Speaker 1: way where I can get in without touching, you know,
31:01
Speaker 1: like I'll just push the If it's something that you
31:04
Speaker 1: just push to open, I'll push up higher or lower
31:07
Speaker 1: than the handle. Or sometimes if I'm wearing a hoodie
31:11
Speaker 1: or whatever, I'll pull my sleeve down. So and I
31:15
Speaker 1: think about that, especially when I wonder if anyone else
31:19
Speaker 1: thinks to this stupid shit. But I think, Okay, so
31:21
Speaker 1: I've been to a public toilet or restaurroom. You know,
31:25
Speaker 1: it's talk about Yeah, there's just whatever's in there is terrifying.
31:30
Speaker 1: Then you wash your hands and then dry your hands,
31:33
Speaker 1: and then you put your hand on the handle to
31:36
Speaker 1: get out of there, which is full of fucking germs.
31:40
Speaker 1: After I just got the germs off my hands.
31:43
Speaker 2: Because some people aren't washing like you just did, you know,
31:46
Speaker 2: and yeah, you're right, you have to go through this
31:49
Speaker 2: door to get out. In some places I've been to
31:53
Speaker 2: they actually have a way to open the door with
31:56
Speaker 2: your foot now so you don't need to touch the handle.
32:00
Speaker 2: And especially during COVID, they turned a lot of doors
32:05
Speaker 2: that used to use a knob or have a handle
32:08
Speaker 2: into just you know, push, so you can use your
32:11
Speaker 2: shoulder or your foot to open the door and avoid
32:16
Speaker 2: touching a handle with your freshly cleaned hands, which you
32:19
Speaker 2: know you raise a good point. That's the last thing
32:22
Speaker 2: you want to do after you wash your hands is
32:24
Speaker 2: touch a restroom door knock.
32:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that foot operated door opening system that'll get
32:31
Speaker 1: to Australia in about thirty five years, So once that arrives,
32:35
Speaker 1: we'll let you know how that goes.
32:37
Speaker 2: Yeah h hopefully I'll still be talking to you. You know,
32:41
Speaker 2: we'll see.
32:42
Speaker 1: But then, any final thoughts or advice doc before we
32:47
Speaker 1: head off, like do we need to one? We don't
32:49
Speaker 1: need to panic, We just need to be aware. But
32:52
Speaker 1: what's just a starting point? Should we clean our phone
32:55
Speaker 1: once a day or what should we do?
32:58
Speaker 2: I'm going to go through a little list right here
32:59
Speaker 2: to help people calm down. Don't want them to freak
33:04
Speaker 2: out about their phone, because you can follow these simple
33:06
Speaker 2: steps I'm going to tell you right now, and you'll
33:08
Speaker 2: minimize the chances of getting sick from your phone. First
33:12
Speaker 2: and foremost, as we said, take care of it in
33:15
Speaker 2: the restroom. Either put it away, resist the temptation to
33:19
Speaker 2: use it, or if you must, then wash your hands
33:24
Speaker 2: thoroughly and wipe down your phone with that alcohol based wipe.
33:29
Speaker 2: Like we said earlier, the same is true for other
33:32
Speaker 2: surfaces that you put your phone down on. So some
33:36
Speaker 2: of the ones that people don't think about might be
33:38
Speaker 2: a kitchen countertop where a raw food was being prepared.
33:42
Speaker 2: There's going to be a lot of germs there, so
33:44
Speaker 2: you probably don't want to use your phone in that environment.
33:46
Speaker 2: We've already covered medical offices and hospitals. There's a lot
33:50
Speaker 2: of germs on there and maybe their countertops, so be
33:53
Speaker 2: cautious of it there. Public bus or public transportation, there
33:58
Speaker 2: could be a lot of germs there. Avoid putting your
34:01
Speaker 2: phone down on like the seat or whatever. If someone
34:04
Speaker 2: else uses your phone, especially a toddler, you know, these
34:09
Speaker 2: young kids are not very hygienic, right, So if a
34:13
Speaker 2: toddler uses your phone or someone else uses it, good
34:16
Speaker 2: idea to disinfect it. And if you make a call,
34:20
Speaker 2: try to use the voice option. Don't hold the phone
34:25
Speaker 2: against your cheek and your ear because if there are
34:28
Speaker 2: germs on it, that could be an easy way for
34:30
Speaker 2: them to get into your body. A good general rule
34:34
Speaker 2: of thumb, phone, doorknobs, other surfaces. Keep your hands clean,
34:41
Speaker 2: especially before you touch your face, before you put on makeup,
34:44
Speaker 2: before you eat. Always wash or sanitize your hands that way,
34:49
Speaker 2: phone or doorknob, whatever surface you're dealing with, whatever device
34:53
Speaker 2: you're dealing with, If your hands are clean, you increase
34:57
Speaker 2: your chances of being okay. I would wipe my phone
35:00
Speaker 2: down at least once a day, and I would do
35:04
Speaker 2: it even more often if I suspected that it got
35:07
Speaker 2: put down onto a dirty surface or used by someone
35:10
Speaker 2: who might have been sick. You can't clean it too much. Really.
35:14
Speaker 2: If you use those alcohol based wipes, they're going to
35:16
Speaker 2: be pretty safe, but you don't need to like do
35:19
Speaker 2: it twelve fifteen times a day. Yeah. The other advantage
35:22
Speaker 2: of cleaning your phone, like you know, at the beginning
35:25
Speaker 2: or end of the day, gets all those fingerprints and
35:27
Speaker 2: smudges off. You know, I'm always a little surprised as
35:31
Speaker 2: to how much better my phone looks and how much
35:34
Speaker 2: easier it is to read once I wipe it down,
35:37
Speaker 2: So it's a one win situation, right.
35:41
Speaker 1: And how much clearer the photos are when you watch
35:43
Speaker 1: the actual lens of the just quickly. So in Australia anyway,
35:49
Speaker 1: and I'm sure around many parts of the world we've
35:52
Speaker 1: seen in the last you know, since twenty twenty, the
35:54
Speaker 1: proliferation of sanitizes in handbags and pockets and whatever, the
36:02
Speaker 1: little squeezy pump things. That is using a sanitizer as
36:06
Speaker 1: good or is it the same as washing our hands?
36:11
Speaker 2: I washing your hands thoroughly with soap and water for
36:14
Speaker 2: about fifteen to twenty seconds is the absolute best. You
36:18
Speaker 2: can't always do that. I am a strong advocate for
36:21
Speaker 2: those little handy sanitizers when you're in a pinch and
36:24
Speaker 2: can't get to soap and water. Those things are excellent.
36:27
Speaker 2: They will kill upwards of ninety five, sometimes ninety nine
36:30
Speaker 2: percent of germs, you know. Just make sure it's a
36:33
Speaker 2: good quality product. And I carry one of those around
36:37
Speaker 2: with me all the time.
36:39
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm shocked, Hi, mate, We appreciate you. We love
36:45
Speaker 1: you being on the show. My listeners love you. We
36:48
Speaker 1: always always pleasure, always get great feedback. Tell people where
36:52
Speaker 1: to go where they can listen to more of you,
36:55
Speaker 1: or see some of your stuff and connect if you would.
36:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can take your dirty and punch in www.
37:02
Speaker 2: Author Bill Sullivan dot com and you can find the
37:06
Speaker 2: articles the interviews that Craig talked about earlier about the
37:09
Speaker 2: cell phone germs. If you want more information, you can
37:12
Speaker 2: follow those links there and read all sorts of other
37:15
Speaker 2: interesting things that I've written over the years.
37:19
Speaker 1: Well, you can get your grubby little fingers and press
37:21
Speaker 1: your grubby little keyboard and find it on your grubby
37:24
Speaker 1: little computer. You can do that. There you go, I Mike,
37:27
Speaker 1: thank you so much. We'll talk again.
37:29
Speaker 2: I look forward to it.