Latest / PlayBetter's Golf Tech Weekly / #13: The Journey of Golficity
Transcript
- speaker-0: If we had waited until we had a studio and all this other stuff, it never would have happened. So we literally at the time like, we would walk into the PGA Superstore, ask them. They have bays there where you could hit, ask them to, you know, if we could hit a couple clubs and we would compare them right there using the launch monitors and stuff that they had. speaker-1: Back once again with Play Better's Golf Tech Weekly. I'm Mark Shaforgian joined by Daniel Fitzpatrick. And today we've got Frank and Mike Fasano from Golf Vicity. Two of the tone setters in golf technology reviews, golf course reviews, travel and destination storytelling, tour news, you name it. If it's golf, these guys are on it. Their Golficity platform is an omni-channel media company that includes a website, a very popular YouTube channel, a podcast, live events, and much more. We're going to get into their growth story, how it all began, their backgrounds in the game, and of course, we're going to talk some golf technology. Frank, Mike, great to have you guys on today. Thank you very much for joining us. speaker-2: Appreciate it. to be here. speaker-0: Yeah, we're excited. ⁓ we always love talking golf tech. We like to nerd out about it whenever we can. speaker-1: Let's do that. You're among friends here. So you guys are cousins, yeah? speaker-2: Yeah, we're cousins. fathers are brothers. ⁓ up with this crazy idea almost 15 years ago. Just two guys who loved the game so much and we just saw the opportunity to figure a way on how to make it a career. kind of the rest is. speaker-0: That's that. speaker-1: I mean, it's awesome. Before we dive into the company itself, tell us a little bit about your guys's background in the game, how that kind of love of golf evolved to the point that it did drive you to want to make this your profession. speaker-0: Yeah, sure. Like, so interestingly, like I had grown up playing golf, but then had gotten away from it for a while. Like I didn't touch a club for the entire time I was in college and then even graduate work. Like I put the clubs down for at least 10 years and ⁓ Mike was just picking up the game ⁓ based on, know, his career and finance and stuff like that. Just naturally getting a lot of invites to play places and he wanted to learn it. So We were kind of at this point where like I wanted to kind of re like re get into the game and Mike was just starting to and then we said like, well, let's do something to kind of document like what that goes for us. Like that whole journey. And that's where we started more than 15 years ago. Originally it was just a website, like a blog. We would just chat about the stuff we were learning as we were exploring the game. Cause up until that point, neither one of us had any like really formal. understanding or learning of the game. Like I had just played as a kid for fun, just to hang out with friends and Mike was just starting. So it was cool. And now we have this great chronological history to look back at how we've kind of journeyed with the game as we've learned it, you know, little by little. speaker-1: Yeah, ⁓ as we are prepping for this episode, I know Daniel, you were checking out some of their some of their back content. It's it's fun to have fun to watch how this has all evolved, especially on the on the visual side when you can see it on YouTube. speaker-0: It could be a little bit cringe worthy if you take that YouTube channel and sort it by the other way. And we look back at some of these videos we made. But like that was the truth of it. Like we had no idea what we were doing. We just knew we wanted to do it. And it was learning the game, but it was also learning like content like we know we hadn't done any type of video or photo work. So it was where our kind of our passions kind of melded together and we were able to learn both at once. So. Our goal was always to get like a little bit better with each piece of content we put out. And if you look at it over many years, you could see the progression, but like when you go way back, like I said, sometimes it's tough to watch. speaker-2: No doubt about that. speaker-1: It is amazing actually to see that that evolution of how professional your production quality has become. mean, it just kind of what this has turned into and I don't want to skip too far ahead before we kind of walk through what that process included but but just as you said, yeah, I think we were were chatting yesterday and you mentioned your earliest videos you guys were literally going into like PGA Superstore and just Just filming yourself testing clubs and stuff like that. A bit different from what it's become. speaker-0: Look, we always say that some people are like just getting into the game, like into content and stuff now. We're like, just do whatever you can, like wherever you have access. Like don't if we had waited until we had a studio and all this other stuff, it never would have happened. So we literally at the time, like, yeah, we would walk into the PGA Superstore, ask them they have bays there where you could hit, ask them to, you know, if we could hit a couple of clubs and we would compare them right there using the launch monitors and stuff that they had. So like it was just like one of those situations where I think hesitating or waiting until you feel like you've got everything you need to make that video is what holds some people back. We were just figure, hey, let's just do it. speaker-2: You know, it's crazy to think back then it's trying to find a simulator because no one really had them. True. They to go to the store. You know, it's so different now that everyone's putting them up garages, backyards, basements. But it was just wild. No one had them. speaker-0: Yes. speaker-3: Yeah, it's definitely cool to see the evolution. mean, I know we briefly touched on it. I mean, I think it's a whole circle evolution for you guys. I mean, not only just in the video quality, the content, what you guys are covering, but even as simple as like the logo that you guys use. And now you've got this full studio. It's just really cool to see how it's grown and obviously a testament to you guys and ⁓ your hard work that you've put into it. ⁓ You know, I always look forward to your guys' videos and not just on tech. I mean, it's cool to see the golf trips you guys take and, you know, just seeing how much you guys love the game of golf, because I think me and Mark share that that passion and love for the game. And, you know, it's obviously brought us all to where we are today. like, Mike, you're talking about how like this all started and you were just getting into golf. What? what made you want to start golfing because it's not like Frank was dragging you out to the course or anything. like, was getting you into the game that got you peeked into playing? speaker-2: I think it's that it's that bug that certain people get when they enter a certain type of profession like for my in my example the business world where everyone else is golfing around me I'm in a client-based business. It's an entertainment style business I started noticing quickly that everyone else plays golf and I don't so I had to figure it out and during college even though I didn't play on the course I'd go to the driving range with buddies. I hit a couple of golf balls here and there I'd try it maybe go with my father once a year So I always had the interest in it, but it was the business push saying, you know, I gotta be in this space. So let me just kind of grab this thing and take it all the way and learn it. And that's what I did. speaker-1: Yeah, very cool. Yeah. I what I really think has been successful about the content and probably from the start is ⁓ is it's been very genuine. And I like it from the aspect of the storytelling. And just as Daniel said, now that you guys have branched out and taken this in so many different directions, ⁓ which which also makes a lot of sense to me. Right. I mean, we're lucky to be in a space where there's some easy bridges to cross in terms of taking our audience with us. If you're covering golf tech. ⁓ You know, everybody that's into golf tech is also interested in playing great golf courses or going to great golf destinations or hearing about culture that has to do with the game of golf. And so it kind of allows you guys as content creators to have kind of an open blank canvas, if you will, and take it in whichever direction interests you without the fear necessarily of losing your audience along the way. Is that? Is that fair to say? is that exactly what you guys have done is just kind of kept this follow the nose of your passion? speaker-0: Yeah, I definitely that's fair to say. I think we always treated it as us being the audience, like creating the videos and stuff that we wanted to see because we knew that if it was something that was enjoyable to us, there would be other people out there like us who would also enjoy it. So, you know, the experience is funny enough is where the video started. Like we had, as I mentioned before, we started with a website just at the time it was blogging was the thing and writing about our experience. And then we quickly transitioned into a podcast, but with the podcast started to be opportunities. Like neither one of us come from a media background. So we didn't know that like brands held media days where they invited media to come see things. Like we had no idea about that, but we started to get these emails and we're like, ⁓ this is really cool. Let's do it. And as we would start to experience those to have, you know, something we would go back and talk about on the pod, we would say like, Let's go one step further and show people this because these are such cool experiences. And if, and if we're so enamored with how cool this is, I'm sure a lot of other people would love to be a fly on the wall and see it as well. So the first actually vlog, if you want to call it that we ever filmed, we got invited, ⁓ to an event in Manhattan where they're demoing a brand new app. But as part of it, we competed in a simulator tournament and we ended up in tied for first place. And then the tiebreaker was a put off on a big putting green they had and Mike drains the pot and wins a trip down to Florida to play in a PGA tour pro am at Bay Hill and got to play with Francisco Molinari, which was wild. And so we're just like, this is so cool. So we then that transition to our next video, which was that and showing people. that experience. ⁓ So we just started to see like every thing that we got to do became a new opportunity to bring our audience along with us. And like you said, if it's cool to us, we got to think there's other people who share this passion for the game that we have and be like, it's got to be cool to them too. And that's always been our direction is just find things that we find interesting and we feel like others will enjoy it as well. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, well, it's been successful. ⁓ Now more than ever, I would imagine there were some years there you guys started what 15 years ago, you said, yeah. speaker-2: Yeah, just about 15 years. speaker-1: Okay, so in those early goings, you had day jobs, I would expect. And traffic had to have been limited. Yeah, I mean, it couldn't have been that right from the start that this looked like this was going to be a full time pursuit or an opportunity to make a living. Or was it or did you guys just have that blind ambition of optimism? speaker-2: It sure did take a while for the full time swing for Frank especially because in the first two years of doing the podcast I don't think we were talking to anybody but ourselves. I don't think we had any audience. We were just chatting golf and just enjoying. We were going to talk to each other on the phone anyway so we just hit record. speaker-0: Yeah, and we had enough times where our wives would say every time we get together, all we do is talk golf. So we're like, hey, let's carve out an hour a week where we can just talk golf and use that as an excuse. But yeah, we never in our wildest dreams imagine that it would get to this level. We still remember the first time we went out with our wives at the time, and like we celebrated 100 views on the website. We've got 100 people to read the website in one day. And we went out and our wives remind us of that every time. something big happens. Like remember that 100 views dinner? But I think the key for us has always been that we love doing it so much that even if it hadn't gotten here, we'd probably still be doing it because it like I said, it's it's a cross of two of our biggest passions, which is, you know, one golf and two like creating and being able to be creative, whether that's photo, video, whatever it may be. So we just figured we were going to do that. and just keep doing it. And then we were just surprised pleasantly by the success that came out of it. And I think that is what it takes. Cause like now we do get a lot of people reach out to us for advice if they're just getting started. And I'll tell them like, do it because you absolutely love it. Like don't do it because you think that, you know, the flashy stuff that comes with it or like the free stuff that gets sent to you because that's not enough of a motivator to keep going. You have to really like it. And I, every year I, I do, ⁓ a career day I get invited to at my kid's school. And they love this idea of a YouTuber, right? Like when we were kids, there was no such thing as a YouTuber. That's like today's movie stars to them. And they don't want to be a YouTuber, but I'm like, forget like that. Forget the end goal. Like instead, find something that you really are passionate about and then just share it with people. And the rewards will come from that. So I try to like tell them that. And it really has been the thing that's kind of kept us going is just the fact that we, love it. speaker-2: Totally agree with that. speaker-1: A ⁓ of really nice lessons there. ⁓ Of course, following your passion, ⁓ persistence. And also I like that you guys were celebrating the small victories when they still were in fact small, because that's important too, right? I mean, you were in it ⁓ because you loved hanging out with each other. You loved talking golf with each other. And now you had kind of this burgeoning thing. I mean, really, 100 views doesn't amount to a whole lot of success, but it was enough for you guys to toast, right? ⁓ speaker-0: Sure felt like it at the moment. Yeah. We did go to Red Robin and got burgers. See, we'll never forget it. ⁓ speaker-2: I think we the right speaker-3: Autumn with fries. There we go. speaker-1: out of there with a balloon. Well, what did kick it off then? Like what, ⁓ what so 100 views was exciting. But was there a was there a moment where things really did seem to turn? And was there a specific piece of content or a run of pieces of content that really kind of turned the tide and kind of kicked this thing over a little bit and turned it into something more legitimately popular? speaker-0: I would say there's two kind of early big turning points for us. The first, like Mike said, we did the podcast for a couple of years where it really wasn't getting any traction yet. ⁓ Podcasts were so new. ⁓ I think when we launched our podcast, there was one other golf podcast at the time. And podcasts in general were not like in like the common culture that everyone was seeing it. I just happened to have a very long commute to work at the time. So. I was listening a lot of podcasts to burn the time. So I told Mike, let's do this. And we took a while to kind of get our flow of how we wanted to structure it what we wanted to do. But after about two, three years, like I said, it started to gain some traction. And then we started to get reach out from brands and things like that. And in the, in, in the beginning, it was kind of sorting out whether they were real or not, or, know, it it was just spam or like, is this really these brands reaching out? But I remember early on, um, we, we, started even working with like Titleist, for example. And it was a dream come true. I had, like I said, I grew up playing golf and I had always played Titleist and I have old hats. Me wearing that old, almost like the Greg Norman style Titleist hat probably didn't look too cool at 12 year old, 12 years old wearing that. But now it's cool to look back on, but it was kind of that, that kind of dream come true moment. But then we were able to start to get access to things. that we said, this is our moment to show people. So like, I remember our first full bag title is fitting. It was the first time either one of us had ever been fit for golf clubs. And it was really the first time we had bought like new golf clubs. You know, we bought used golf clubs and stuff before then. So it was an eye opening experience. If you, you know, we go back and watch that video, could see like, it's impossible to fake that reaction of what it really feels like the first time going through that. So we documented that and that really started to bring some traction. And then shortly after we had an incredible trip that we took to Scotland where we played 10 golf courses in six days. in Scotland, it's not like here in the States is like, there's no carts. like, it's all walking. were running on fumes, but we were like, just such adrenaline, so excited and we filmed every bit of it. And we came back, we edited it together and launched it as the Scotland series and. Then we started to really start to see some traction. And after that, was just, it was never like a viral moment of a quick spike. It was always just kind of steady growth from there. And just keeping our foot on the pedal from there on, you know, we released, you know, over 600 podcast episodes, over 600 YouTube videos. And I don't even, can't even count thousands upon thousands of Instagram posts and things like that. So. There was a couple moments that were like a little upticks, but it was more so this steady, just staying with it and it just kept growing. speaker-1: Yeah, consistency pays off. Well, Daniel, you're a certified golf sicko. There's got to be a touch of envy in watching what these guys have built and all of the cool things that they get to experience regularly. Golf tech reviews, which we'll touch on here, is one thing. But man, they're going to some pretty awesome places, really, really cool destinations. What have you seen, Daniel? speaker-3: Yeah, no, it's definitely ⁓ some envy and some jealousy at times. But at the same time, these guys are partners of ours. So it's great to see them continuing to have success. And ⁓ at times, we can work together and look at these new products that are coming out and get hyped up to see what Frank and Mike think of these products. Because ⁓ they have different perspective versus our perspective. And especially technology-wise, I think it's cool to just see. how they test the products and how they go about, oh, I'm gonna put it through this test. And it's like, oh, I may not have even thought of that. I think that's what's really unique. like these guys touched on, it's, you know, YouTubing wasn't a thing 10 to 15 years ago. even technology of what we have today wasn't a thing. I mean, like they said, you'd go to a golf store and they would have a GC2 or if they were fortunate, maybe they had... some TrackMan products, are typically on the outdoors at that time. it was just rare even to have that type of technology in the golf stores. If you were doing golf reviews on technology, was probably a range finder or like a Skycaddy GPS handheld. I mean, it was pretty rare, the technology that was being used, especially on course or even in your practice. And now today, it's like we've said many times, Mark, it's like if you're not using golf technology, you're probably leaving strokes on the table or you're at a disadvantage anymore. yeah, ⁓ it's cool to see, you know, like, you know, we've done a little deep dive into some history of your guys's channel and your progress. And it's just so cool. You know, even the once in a while talking about PGA tour stuff, ⁓ you know, I think me and Mark text on the side once in a while talking about the tours and the evolution there. And I think now with full swing and the Netflix series and stuff like. There's so much ways to consume golf now and to see how you guys have still progressed is awesome. Was it a gradual progression or was it like a one hit boom here we are type moments or was it just something that you guys kept growing and growing slowly over each year? speaker-2: Yeah, I'd say more the slow and steady climb. I still don't think we've hit our big moment yet. You you got other great, great YouTubers out there that have just spiked out of nowhere. You know, like Bob does sports. You know, there's a great example. They're great. They're hysterical. They draw a great crowd and then they just blow up. And that's awesome. But we've had this steady climb and it's been great because we've had awesome partners. They believe in us. They still believe in us. A lot of those titles, Footjoy still working with us a decade later. amazing support. to have them and to help us kind of do the things we do because we're a little older, we've got families, we have young kids. So getting out there and just hopping on a plane every week to go to a different event is really almost not in the cards for us. So we pick and choose the opportunities that come up and try to fit it in our schedule. And this slow and steady climb, although it's not the big boom, it's great to see our growth every year. And we just try to build off that. speaker-1: I'd say it's say the payoff has been very real. mean, here you guys are. ⁓ I thought I was watching a Rich Lerner essay watching your Ironman coverage. mean, it was absolutely beautiful storytelling visually. The writing was was really spot on the pacing of the storytelling and then the images that you guys captured. Obviously, you've studied something to do with how to operate a camera or you've employed some people who do. ⁓ Tell us about kind of the behind the scenes of either that learning curve to get to that point ⁓ or what the crew may entail. speaker-0: Yeah, that learning curve has been every drop of the last 12 years. mean, like I said, with as with golf, it's been one of those things that we've wanted to learn it as we go. And I think we it's out this give and take relationship with YouTube. Right. Like we put stuff on YouTube, but YouTube is also such an incredible learning tool. And we've been able to teach ourselves photography, videography, all those things through years of just grinding it out and looking for like, know where we want to be. Like, how do we cover that gap to get there? Like I want my drone footage to look a certain way. How do I do that? And it would just be lots of research, lots of practice, but it just came out of necessity. Like a couple of years ago, I, you know, go out and get my drone pilots license and do all that stuff. But when you see something like, it means a lot to us when we hear that because something like that drive series with the Ronamink. That's our like real passion. know, we, absolutely all, all of this is our passions. said before, and we absolutely love doing the product reviews and things like that. But those moments where we get to just tell the stories of these locations is just, lights us up. You know, we talk about it for months coming up to it. actually, this next Monday, we're going to be at Shinnecock filming for the U S open. And we have been planning and talking about that. for at least, I want to say almost since last US Open. So, you know, we're talking about the shots we want to get and there's when we go on these golf trips, there's a lot of hustle to it. I'm not going to lie. There's very little sleeping because you are up before the sun to get that perfect light in the morning. You're there playing golf and you're back at the golf course until the sun gets goes down to continue getting it. ⁓ There's so much coordination that happens before. speaker-2: since the beginning of the year at least. speaker-0: where we're lining up who we can have possibly as on-camera hosts to give us some of that local knowledge. We're researching where are the places to eat, what are the things to see, because we're also doing this because not only do we want to make a fun and entertaining and compelling video, but we also know that a lot of people use those videos as kind of their own research for a trip that they're planning. We want to send them to the best place possible. there's a lot that goes into it. Exactly. So we have, you know, here and there, we've brought some extra hands in to help with a camera or photo or something like that. But for the most part, we've done all that heavy lifting just because we love it. We enjoy it as much as we do the golf. And you have to do a certain extent because I'll be honest with you, it's very hard to play good golf and shoot a good video yourself at the same time. We learn that quickly. Like it's hard to focus on a birdie putt. when you're setting up a tripod for one angle, another camera for this angle, waiting till the camera man's ready to make, to take the pot. So we knew there had to be some give and take and luckily we enjoy it just as much as we enjoy golf. They were like willing to like miss a few pots because if it ends up being a great shot, you know what I mean? So that's part of it, but like it's been, it's been a journey. Like I said, every video we just strive to get a little bit better after we're done making a video, we sit down together, we look at it, be like, what could we have? done better for the next one. Where, where is the spots that worked? Can we do more of that? And we just keep learning and going. speaker-1: Yeah. Do you think some of your audience knows you from one platform and not another? Meanwhile, you guys are on multiple platforms. You've got a active and ⁓ quite engaging website, but you've also got the very successful YouTube channel. And of course, there's cross pollination and cross promotion there between the two. But are you are you seeing that you have traffic that's exclusive to your YouTube channel versus your website and vice versa? speaker-0: I would say no doubt there's still some people that ⁓ may only consume our content on Instagram or whatever it may be. And because of that, we're like, we've always been where we're not super concentrated or loyal to one platform. We're more loyal to the audience in general. And we've said like, we're going to put our stuff everywhere to like meet them kind of where they are. So that's why like every video we put out also goes on Facebook watch, you know, ⁓ on top of that, we've worked with a lot of streaming companies to put our videos out on demand, you know, Vizio and otherwise, because like you said, we've never like thought of ourselves as YouTubers. like, we create content and then get it out as many places as possible so that people can find it. So we've, we've always kind of use that as like a model for hours. Like if a new platform launches, we jump on. remember. when Instagram just kicked off and we jumped on that and you you you're able to bring in some new audiences that way but like I said I think it's it's important to like meet people where they're consuming the content rather than ask them to move from platform to platform. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Daniel, you talk to customers all the time. ⁓ Is is I would imagine customers that you're that you're visiting with that are looking to make a purchase are very likely consuming ⁓ content, review content from all across the Internet, ⁓ including golficity. But ⁓ just as much just as Frank is saying, ⁓ being kind of ever present in all spaces is kind of casting that wide net. ⁓ is seems like a very smart approach. ⁓ What about customers that you talked to? Are they are they hitting on the golficity and are they ever feeding back to you the what they've learned from some of that content that they consumed? speaker-3: Almost every day. ⁓ I mean, it's part of the conversation where I even initiate it ⁓ sometimes too, where people want to see the products in action. mean, these aren't things where you can typically go to a store and test out like you can with the golf clubs or things like that. Not everyone has access to get close to maybe a manufacturer or a reseller that can let them test these things out. you know, what's the best way to do it? Well, we have such amazing content now and partnerships that we can we can do this. And, ⁓ you know, it's such a privilege to be able to send send people to to Frank and Mike's page here and let them consume that content. But it's not always just hey, go watch this video. ⁓ You know, sometimes even outside of our our learning section on the website, Mark, ⁓ you know, it's sending them to their website and learning that way, too, because some people and honestly. a good portion of our purchasing customers are typically an older clientele and they still like to read. And so to be able to have actual literature to read about things, I mean, that goes a long way too. So I think once people realize that, you know, it's not just a YouTube channel, you know, they have a full website of content and information that we can consume, that builds more trust, I think. puts more relevancy into what they're doing. It's not just we're gonna make a video, hopefully it gets a bunch of views and we sell a bunch of products through this website. It's like they're talking about, you've grown your audience gradually and you've built that trust with them and it built a reputation that's really promising in the industry. yeah, I use it almost every day. ⁓ Again, because people just wanna know more about the product that they're investing in. speaker-2: Yeah, would also think. speaker-0: I'll too that so many of the viewers and customers, they're so smart at what they see and what they catch. A lot of the ideas and stuff that we do in our tests, in our videos, come from them. They'll ask questions like, have you thought of this? ⁓ Could it be whatever it may be? The color of the ball you're using, whatever it may be. And they'll like, that's a great question. Let's go in and let's test it. So ⁓ when we're making those videos, we have that in mind. I like to think with every like, review or accuracy test or whatever I try to call it like a preset number of questions that people might have in their mind because again going back to that idea of like if it's content that we would enjoy someone else might and I always put myself in the shoes of like alright I've got 1200 bucks to spend on a launch monitor tomorrow what do I need to know and I try to preemptively answers me those questions as possible setup wise use case whatever may be But then also seeing those questions and then trying to respond to them, whether it be just in the comments or like creating a whole nother video to back that up. Like we'll test the unit outdoors and everyone's like tested indoors. Okay. Let's do that next. So it's, it's a very give and take relationship with the audience. When we create this stuff, it's almost collaborative. speaker-3: Yeah, I definitely think the consumers have gotten smarter, especially like the last five to six years and, you know, the growing trend of everybody jumping on Reddit or these forums that are out there. ⁓ It does create a bit of a cult ⁓ and almost like a religion type thing where these guys are are helping each other out to share their experiences. ⁓ But yeah, you can you can see it right like you're talking about where. These consumers are more educated and part of that is a reference to the content that's out there. ⁓ But like five, six years ago, people were just blindly buying stuff and hoping that it was what they wanted. And now we have all these resources and experience. think we as ⁓ even experts in the field, I think we've gotten more educated and understanding of what people want out of these products, too. speaker-0: true. And some of the stuff there wasn't a method to test it years ago. Like you didn't have two launch monitors you could put against each other to see if the numbers were right. Right. So like now we've got these tools and I think it makes everything it makes the the buyers that much more educated but it also holds so much of the manufacturers to account. They know full well like they launch a product now it's going to be tested by a whole lot of people and that information is going out on YouTube. Years ago you didn't have that. You know so I think it makes everybody more honest. makes it a much more competitive environment and it ends up being better for us buyers in the long run. speaker-1: Yeah, let's talk about kind of the end game that that's led to, which is an unbelievable array of incredibly ⁓ high performing, accurate, sophisticated products that Frank, just as you say, are born out of that kind of competition and that scrutiny and that kind of exacting standard that has now become the standard, right? ⁓ You guys are the perfect guys to talk to about this because when you started 15 years ago, all of this was very pie in the sky, almost science fiction, right? I mean, the idea of having a golf simulator set up in your garage or basement ⁓ without dropping significant money, major significant money was just not realistic. These were commercial grade products by and large, if they even existed at all, even very limited in what was out there. Now, here we are, things have changed so radically to the point where we were talking just before we went on air about a $200 launch monitor that all of us are shocked by its accuracy. Tell us about kind of, it's got to be a little bit head spinning, honestly, to start from where you were observing what you did, and now be where you are and seeing what you are now. speaker-0: I think there's like a little bit of gratitude in the fact that I feel like we're probably the last generation to really be able to be totally wowed by technology, right? Because now it's like I see with my kids, they live it every day. It's almost take it for granted. Whereas we came from a place, you know, I don't want to date myself too much, but we didn't have any of this. like, even going back, like the idea of having a golf simulator in your house would just would have blown my mind. You know, it was just like, how could that be possible? So it's so great to see like the constant evolution and as products become like better and more affordable, like it used to be a place where you had trackmen for $25,000, right? And then if something else came out, was, if it was cheaper, it's probably junk. Well that, that world doesn't exist anymore. We're seeing like really solid, accurate units, like for under a thousand bucks and I think that's great to see. So yeah, it gives us an interesting perspective because of the fact that we came from none of this existing and getting to watch it unfold in front of our eyes has been something that's been really fun and cool to document as it goes. speaker-1: On the sim software side too, you we touch on launch monitors, but on the software side, so many cool, fun evolutions that kind of address all the various different ways somebody might want to enjoy golf. I know you guys are fans of awesome golf, for example, as something that's maybe a very accessible way to get into the game and gamify it and make it fun. ⁓ Talk about that a bit, if you would. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean, it's been great for both. I don't want speak for both of us, but both of us have, like I said, mentioned younger kids. And ⁓ I think there's certain softwares like that that gets them engaged in the game very early on, like whether there's playing games or you get to knock down buildings in awesome golf, you get to sink ships. And ⁓ whereas they might not be as interested just to hit balls on the simulated range. When I pull that up, they perk right up. They pick up a club, but your kids as well. speaker-2: Absolutely. It's great. Gets them in the game. They love the fun of the breaking bricks. I mean, all that stuff is fun. And I love that it gives the kids the opportunity to do something that could somewhat be boring to them. I've taken them to the range after like 10 shots. It's like, all right, when can we go home? But the tech like that is what keeps them here, keeps them going. And then you convert that sim into a movie night. You know, like there's other things, there's video games that you can put on the sim. It's what I do in my garage for the kids. So I love that it's evolved so far to give them and us now, all those great new upgrades and technology. It's pretty sweet. speaker-0: It is cool to see like so many different third party software providers that like everybody kind of covers different elements of the game, whether it be something like that or, you know, we use GS pro a lot. There's so many games, so many golf courses in there and is a thriving community. People are building courses for that. So you do have so many options, but also again, like something to fit every budget. You can take something like awesome golf. It's it's incredibly great software and it runs on your. iPhone or your iPad so you don't have to invest in a gaming computer But then if you're the other side and you want to go something super robust you can pick up a gaming computer installed GS Pro or For sites software any of that type of stuff and then now you've got like a really robust high, know high quality graphic environment, so It's a great way to like get it. So it's not out of reach like everyone can have like a different type of build and have a sim in some way nowadays. speaker-1: No doubt. No doubt. speaker-3: Yeah, and Mike, you've got a pretty unique SIM setup at your place. I know you made a really awesome video that I reference for customers all the time just because it's so cool to see how ⁓ it's unboxed and how it's installed. So can you kind of talk a little bit about your SIM setup? Because honestly, I think it's become one of the more popular options, especially for a guy trying to pitch to his wife that, I'm going to designate some space. ⁓ Maybe your space is a little easier. Can you kind of just talk about your space and how it's kind of. speaker-2: Sure, so it was last May I installed the sports screen retractable, the vanishing SIM. And it's just like your video projector screen that'll go up and down with a touch of a remote button. And the great thing about it is I have the ability to use my full garage. So behind my screen, if anyone hasn't seen the video, there is shelving that I put a lot of storage in. And if I put a SIM enclosure in there that's permanent or semi-permanent, I can't get back there. So. The ability to have that storage for the family, for all the toys and the stuff and the junk that we collect. It was just great to have that storage and just to move that screen up and down with a touch of a button. Plus, it's super cool. I mean, it's kind of a head turner. You know, you got buddies come over, you hit a button, it comes down. You have Alexa program to it's a hey, Alexa, lower the same. It lowers it down. So it's a really cool thing and it maximizes the space. So now there's probably no excuse for anyone who wants to put it in their garage. Space is an issue. I think I might have solved it by putting that in and getting people hype about it. speaker-1: What are the barriers to entry now guys? What what excuses remain for anybody? ⁓ speaker-0: So so few I mean because if we're getting to a point now, like I said where you can get a launch monitor under a thousand bucks ⁓ I've seen so many people who start out with a net and a mat and you're just you're just hitting and like you you've got your launch monitor and you're looking at your data on your phone or whatever and I think that simulators in general become so Modular that you can start there and then you don't have to reinvent the wheel when you're ready to upgrade You can, you often like some of these launch monitors, like I love like the Rapsodo MLM 2 Pro. It's so versatile that we've built literally bare bones simulator that are a net and a mat all the way up to full scale. built, we surprised a friend a couple of years ago, we built a fully custom simulator in his house ⁓ and still use the Rapsodo. So there gets to a point where it's like, you can start here if that's your budget, a mat and a net. And then when you're ready, now you buy an enclosure. then you add on a projector and then you slowly piecemeal it up and it's a way to kind of really evolve your simulator setup over time. So the barriers entries are super, super low. We're always looking for new and creative ways to kind of find other ways that people can get into a sim, like no matter what your space size is. And it's been cool to solve some of those problems. speaker-1: Yeah, I legitimately believe that space is the one hold up for anybody. Not everybody's got the ceiling space and ⁓ people got crowded garages. ⁓ But just as Mike Sault for himself, ⁓ got the Vanish series. So ⁓ pretty amazing. If you've got the ceiling height, you probably can get it done without breaking the bank. You talk about the MLM 2 Pro ⁓ ecosystem. Now we've got integration with GS Pro. So just as you're saying, The opportunity to scale is incredible. You start with an MLM 2 Pro, mat and a net. ⁓ You can be playing Rapsodo courses on your iPhone and checking out kind of that relatively closer to basic kind of ⁓ course recreation level. And then if you want to grow into something like GS Pro and a gaming PC, ⁓ You've got that opportunity with still the same launch monitor and still the same space or want to bring in a projector and impact screen. It's all so, so scalable. As guys who have gotten to play the green grass golf on some of these ⁓ really destination courses and then have gotten to see the ⁓ SIM recreations on something like GS Pro, can you give us a sense of... just how realistic and how good the graphic quality has gotten on some of this stuff. Obviously there's no substitute for the real in-person thing, but how close are we? speaker-2: But we're close. speaker-0: And that's another thing where like I said, we get that interesting perspective where coming from not having this we're still wowed by it like the idea that something to do this but we always say like I mean Hats off to the people who spend the time to map these courses because they do it in a level of detail That would drive us nuts to try to do but the elevations are so good everything and it looks so real but I think the The thing that's underutilized, like as much fun as it is to go and play these dream courses, I think where the sim is like not thought of enough is in prep to play those courses. So whether you're, know, and nowadays you've got so many, like talk about rap soda, they've got 15,000 plus courses. They probably have your local course. So you could be prepping for a local tournament, but on the same token, now we talk about the golf trip and like, So much is invested in that. might be your one week of the year that you get to go away with your friends and play, and you're so anticipating it. Being able to then hop in your sim and play a bunch of rounds and start to familiarize yourself with the course ahead of time is so valuable for when you get there to really fully enjoy the experience. And it is so realistic that when you get there, you're like, well, this looks familiar, even though you've never been there. So it's cool to play some of our, whether it's reliving some of our favorite courses or preparing to play a brand new course, we use it as a tool like that all the time. And it's incredible how far it's come. speaker-1: Yeah, no question. speaker-3: Yeah, do you guys use that like when you're going to film somewhere like, this is a really cool hole. Let's make sure we you know, we get some shots specifically for this. Like, do you guys do that type of planning even for your content? speaker-0: Absolutely we do and even like Mike has a fun series he does where he reenacts famous shots So like we're able to pull up a shot that we saw and and then Michael fired up in the sim And then you you take the shot. It's a lot of fun speaker-2: Yeah, it's pretty cool being able to do that. And like you said, being able to scope out, you know, say a Shinnecock for next Monday. Of course, we both have never played, but we know it's hard and it's got length and we want to know all the trouble spots. So I'm sure Friday we'll fire it up and we'll get out there. We'll play virtual Shinnecock for Monday. speaker-1: Where are the opportunities for growth still for ⁓ sim software, launch monitors, the whole sim experience? ⁓ You're to go play Shinnokkak, you play it on the sim. ⁓ You know, the one that jumps to my mind is putting, ⁓ probably can't quite ⁓ get to the point of recreating what you guys are going to experience there or some of the short game shots that you're going to be facing. But tell us what you how you guys see it. Where do we still have opportunity to gain even better realism? speaker-0: I think there's so many opportunities. Like we were at the PGA show this just this past January, which by the way is something we've been going to for over a decade and you get to see year over year the leaps and bounds of how much things evolve. But we're seeing great Sims that are a blend of virtual and realistic golf. There was one we saw where you you hit into the screen at full shots and then as soon as you get on the green, the screen lifts up, you walk in and you're taking a putt on a real course. We're seeing. massive developments in technology of putting surfaces that they kind of like you see with the TGL, which you're going to see a lot of. ⁓ We're also seeing adaptations for new places to a new ways to put Sims in other places. ⁓ I literally think we're as much as it seemed crazy development. We're still like very early on. ⁓ We're even right now working with golf plus who do the VR. ⁓ where there's going to be a blended immersive, but hitting real golf balls. So we're going to be doing some, ⁓ some videos on that and some, some demos on that coming up. So, ⁓ and that gets to a point where maybe you don't need a projector in some cases and an impact screen. have a net because you're seeing everything in the goggles. I think the reality is like, there's so many great creative people working on this that you're just going to keep seeing that. And I'd say the last area too, where I think you're going to see a lot of growth. is in more collaborative right now we have some online play but I think you're going to see that take off as as more people have home sims just like we saw years ago with video games I mean I remember the days of Nintendo there was you played with the person who had the other controller right you didn't play with someone across the world but then video games nowadays are predominantly multiplayer playing with people in all different spaces as more people have sims You already have some of that technology now, GS Pro and otherwise, but I think there's gonna be a big investment in that. I think eventually we start to see a lot of leagues take off, where everyone's at home playing in a night league against each other. think more formal tournaments to maybe tournament prizes and purses. I think you could see a lot of that. a multiplayer space in the sim space, I think is something that we're only scratching the surface right now. speaker-1: Yeah, preach brother. So you're not shutting down the site anytime soon. speaker-0: No, I guess we're at the start of this. Trust me. I think this is, got a long way to go. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a amazing time. Daniel and I talk about this probably almost every week. It's just an amazing time to be a golfer. Amazing time to be like us golf sick golf junkies. Like it's just there's just so much amazing opportunity. And just as you said, Frank, and really laid it out so nicely, a really, kind of limitless world ahead still to come. Probably we'll get to the point where we look back and we are just as we are now. you guys look back on your start 15 years ago, and there's things that are happening currently that you could have never even envisioned or even imagined. ⁓ And we're going to look back in a few years, and we're going to have the same conversations about, you know, never could we have dreamed this up, you know, so sure. Just just wild, wild. Tell us about the name, by the way, golficity. speaker-0: Coach. speaker-2: Yeah, go ahead. Is it good? speaker-0: It's funny. It's like, like we said, everything is just like not waiting to have things perfect and just, you know, starting where you are. Like at the time, like, like I said, websites were the main thing. Like social media was very little. any, YouTube was just getting its start. So it all boiled down to domain names and every golf domain name under the sun was taken. were trying different things. And at the time we wanted to get an idea of golf being so complex, like sharing our journey and simplifying it. So we kind of melded the words together and golf golf and simplicity and we had golficity and it was just like a domain that was available at the time. And even the same thing with that back then, the logo, it was like, I don't even know what programs we were using back then. It may have been Microsoft Paint for all I know. And it was just like, find a font that looks pretty good. Microsoft Paint. You know, I don't know. And we would just do it and launch it and then worry about it later. Like. later we had the great benefit, like as things took off to like work with a design company to redesign the logo. And there was so much fun that went into that type of stuff. But at the time it was just like, this works, you know, let's do that. You know, it was, it was just learn as we go and just adapt. speaker-2: I think golfology was the close second, if I remember correctly. speaker-0: Little harder to spell maybe. Yeah. speaker-2: Hey, people still call us golf city to this day. That is, but it's OK. I don't see that big guy right in the middle there, speaker-0: A lot of golf city. ⁓ It'll make the eye bigger. speaker-1: Cool. Danny, you want to hit these guys with a couple of ⁓ rapid fire questions? Yes. speaker-3: ⁓ Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, I mean, there's even some stuff I think I'm intrigued to kind of learn about. ⁓ Just simple stuff here, guys. mean, obviously you've played all around the world, ⁓ but so far, like what is your favorite golf course to play? it a course that you grew up playing as a kid or is it a course you've played along the way on your journey here? speaker-2: Yeah, I mean, I always come back to Tobacco Road. I mean, we've been to some great spots like Old Core, St. Andrews, Pine Valley. I mean, they're all fantastic experience. All pinch me moments every time we're there. But like there's something about Tobacco Road. It's the uniqueness. We were big Mike Strands geeks. We played five of his course. We're going to play two more. All the East Coast. We're going to finish that that that feat this year. But tobacco is what kind of because it opened the door to Mike's other courses that we all have gone to down in Myrtle and all that. So. For me, I'd say tobacco. It's just unique. speaker-0: We're very fortunate that we're going to, like said, we're headed to Virginia in three weeks now and we're going to finish playing all of his original designs. we're just, we just love Mike's story and like what he did with golf courses. So tobacco road's high on the list. I've also always been a huge fan of played the ocean course at Keewa and something about that place just stuck with me. ⁓ it was just incredible, but yeah, we've been fortunate to play a lot of plays. speaker-2: Cabin Nova Scotia always comes like a close second. I that place is just, if you ever get the chance to go there, it's just incredible golf. speaker-3: Yeah, really cool. ⁓ Talk about your golf bags a little bit. mean, I know we kind of briefed on it little bit before the show about that trustee lob wedge that you had to get out of your bag early on in the content days, Frank. But what's one golf club you guys got in your bag that you know, hey, if I need to hit a shot, I'm going to use this, or if I get to this yardage, I'm really comfortable? What's your guys' favorite club in your bag that you trust the most? speaker-0: I'd say for me, I kind of speak of them holistically as my wedges. you know, coming from like a background of like playing baseball and stuff like that, so many people get into golf that way. You always just start the journey. It's like, you just care about how far you hit it. You just want to hit the ball further than your buddies. Like I've left that game long behind. Like, and as I've, I've started to really start to understand the nuance of this game being so much more of a finesse game than a power game. have. absolutely fallen in love with my wedges because they're just like these options to hit different types of shots. So my favorite, my go-to is my 53 degree wedge. ⁓ I'm using that for so many shots around the green, but like, I've just found a new way. Like we recently got refit for new wedges. I just think there's so much nuance in wedges that people don't quite see. Like whether you like the fact that like the different bounces and grind options that you You just don't get any other clubs in the bag. And if you really want to like go down a wormhole, you know, you really can, but it's also an area that your game can improve like so much from a club. you, the club really can do a lot of the work for you if you've got your wedges dialed in right. So that's been a journey for me. speaker-2: Yeah, I'm right there with you. The 58 degrees, I even stamped it my money club. I've always had that stamp on it because 85 yards and in, that's my baby. That's what I'm going to. Around the greens, 85 yards out, even though some fitters would be like, why are you swinging that full swing on a 58 degree? But that's just, that's my money club. That's my baby. speaker-0: And let's be honest, where we're at right now, like we're not hitting evergreen regulation. having like reliable saving clubs is 100 % the way to lower your handicap. speaker-1: Frank, have you broken power since Sand Valley? speaker-0: Unfortunately not that was like a One one and done for now, but I will say you know my handicap has come down quite a bit of the last couple years and like as much as those rounds are great for me like just being able to consistently score in the low 80s and break 80 here and then be in the high 70s is Is great. I mean, it's a point where like I feel like I can really enjoy the game. I can really enjoy the architecture and understand it more, but how it was designed for better players. ⁓ so it's kind of unlocked a new level. And I just think that's what golf is. It's always kind of unlocking. I got into the game largely because my father played and, and him bringing me out there and he, ⁓ he's still grinding and he, could, he can still beat me. I got some what I got to learn to beat him, but he, just two weeks ago, he almost fired his age. He's 70 and he shot 71. So I'm like, I just need to be a little bit older and you would have shot your age. Yeah, like we were joking because his birthday is just a few weeks off. I'm like, can you have waited a little bit and shot your age? So like I said, there's still so much left to explore. And that's I love about the game. It's it's really a great perspective for me to see him still playing at a high level. speaker-3: Right there ⁓ speaker-0: at his age and realize that although I won't be playing baseball or football anymore, I'll be playing golf for as long as my body will let me do it, you know? speaker-3: Yeah, it's totally the beauty of our game. And I think that's all why we enjoy it. mean, even not just age wise, but you can watch professional golf. And if you play recreationally enough, you can hit shots like these guys hit on TV maybe once in a while. I mean, not multiple times around, maybe once a month. But it gives you that hope of like, man, if I work on this enough, like I can make improvement. I can play and hit good golf shots. You know, I don't think any other sport is like that. You know, we're not stepping into the batter's box and hitting a 95-mile-hour fastball, least I'm not. ⁓ But, you know, I can get out there and I can hit a golf shot that lands and stays next to the hole. You know, we can get lucky and see that type of excitement. And that's what's unique about our sport. I really believe that. And, ⁓ you know, it's cool. It's not like I'm going to go. you know, jump in an NBA game and back down Nikhil Djokic into the paint. You know what mean? It's like, it's so cool just to be able to replicate some of that stuff we see these amazing golfers do from time to time. speaker-2: Yep, true. speaker-1: than ever, right? mean, Mike is ⁓ somebody that grew in the game pretty quickly and got to a nice level of play in a much shorter amount of time. Would you say, Mike, that now with the advent of all the technology and with sim golf being so accessible, that somebody has an opportunity to do what you did and maybe even a more concentrated amount of time if they open their own garage? speaker-2: No doubt. think I was I was spraying balls when I first started shooting 115 110. Now I'm down to a nine six handicap. And I think with the technology now and what's available to people now, I think they could do it even faster. There's no question about it. I even seen some buddies who just getting in the game a couple of years go by. I go play golf with them and they're they're shooting in the mid low low 90s. And I'm like, what happened to you? You just you got so good because, not only the access to the coaches, but these coaches have this gear to. So for these coaches to put you on these floorboards to see weight distribution, all this stuff to just improve that quick, yeah, no doubt. think people who are gonna start this game could get pretty good pretty quick. speaker-0: And I think one of the sneakiest ways that it improves is living here like New York, New Jersey. So much of our golf career has been putting the sticks away for four months and then trying to play catch up. think what's turned a corner for both of us was the fact that we're able to keep swinging throughout the winter. You come out of the gate so much in better form. Sure. Short game touch needs to come back a little bit, putting whatever may be. but like you're not playing catch up for two months. You know, you're, you're still swinging a club and, and actually one instructor once put it a really interesting way to us. He's like, have to think of it as a benefit, like, because if your season never ends, you never really has that time to do those swing changes and other things that you want by kind of seeing how your season unfolds, making a kind of a list of things you want to work on. And then using the simulator through the winter to work on some of those new moves on those new motions while at the same time staying in some sort of golf form. It creates a situation where you're getting better all year, which we never had access to until the simulators came into play. speaker-1: No question. No question. Winters, parenting, right? Nighttime. ⁓ It's just, it's incredible. We all have incredible access. Very few excuses for our bad play anymore. Yeah. Guys, tell us where everybody can find Golficity, ⁓ the website, the YouTube, the Instagram. What are we looking at? speaker-0: good news is if you spell it right with the I, you can find us everywhere under the same name. So that was one thing we wanted to make sure that it's golficity everywhere and we truly try to be everywhere. Cause like I said, different people prefer different platforms and we're not forcing them one or the other. Like we're on Tik TOK, we're on Instagram, you know, we're on Facebook. ⁓ even I said some of the streaming services. So if you search golficity, you will find us and And our hope is to make a nice mix of different types of content that we're able to have a little bit of something for everyone and anything that kind of sparks your interest when it comes to the game. We've got a little bit of something in there and we're just going to keep doing it because it's what we love to do. speaker-1: Yeah, please do keep doing it. Do you know anything else for our guys? speaker-3: Yeah, I think it was a really cool conversation. Loved hearing the history of how you guys got to where are today and obviously love to hear that you guys aren't content not only with where you are, ⁓ you know, from your from your content standpoint, but from your golf game standpoint. I mean, you're hungry as ever to continue getting better. And, ⁓ you know, it's inspiring, obviously, for anybody who watches this, I think, you know, it was a really cool just like I said, learn, learn about the history and and get to know, you know. what happened and how you got where you are today. So obviously still, like we said, a little bit jealous. You guys are going out to to shinny the next week. So definitely enjoy that. Now that the weather is finally getting, you know, a lot better up where you guys are at. So enjoy that, guys. It's going to be awesome. speaker-2: Can't wait. speaker-0: Yeah, we appreciate it. I appreciate you guys having us on the show and everything that you guys do. It's it's incredible. It's so great to have somebody as a partner that we know you guys care about this game as much as we do, you know, and that's so important because we do these reviews and we tell people, you know, about play better. The fact that you guys have golfers on your team to, you know, that can answer their questions and continue that conversation is so important to us because for us at the end of the day, we want to. We really want to serve our audience as best as we can. So we appreciate you guys and appreciate the time chatting with you today. speaker-1: Thank you. Thank you very much. Congratulations on all your success and all that's still to come. ⁓ Really appreciate those comments. We really value the partnership Play Better has with you guys. ⁓ And just really excited to see everything that's coming up, most notably the upcoming Shinnecock coverage. ⁓ They are Mike and Frank Fasano, Golficity. Please check them out. ⁓ Please check this channel out and continue to watch, subscribe and like if you're interested. We're gonna be back at it again next week. Talk on all things golf tech and we look forward to it. Thanks everyone for joining.