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Is the Running Back Position in Decline? · NFL explained.

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Speaker 1: NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
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Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio. All Right. It's a brand new
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Speaker 1: edition of the NFL Explained podcast by Yamlaw with my
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Speaker 1: Super Bowl champion friend Michael Robinson. Ready to rock and
0:24
Speaker 1: Roll and rob You and I got into a little
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Speaker 1: bit of an argument before we started the show. Millennial.
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Speaker 1: I'm fringe. I kind of want to be gen X
0:33
Speaker 1: because I think there's a there's like a vibe about
0:36
Speaker 1: millennials that like not necessarily like the positive that I
0:39
Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm aligned with. You classify yourself also
0:42
Speaker 1: as French millennial. Yes, yes, we are friends millennials, right,
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Speaker 1: I'm an early eighties baby, Mike. So at the end
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Speaker 1: of the day, I remember when we didn't have social media.
0:53
Speaker 1: I remember when we got social media, and I'm not
0:55
Speaker 1: totally addicted to it. So that makes me a fringe,
0:58
Speaker 1: makes us fringe millennial. I'm glad you classified your your
1:02
Speaker 1: non addiction to social media is I'm not totally addicted
1:06
Speaker 1: to it as in because I hang with you sometimes
1:09
Speaker 1: like you're you're on it, so uh, and I know
1:11
Speaker 1: people do that you are you are and people keep
1:14
Speaker 1: dming me questions which by the way, I always brings
1:16
Speaker 1: a smile to my face, and of course keep them
1:18
Speaker 1: coming because there's another bad episode around the corner. I
1:21
Speaker 1: bring up this whole millennial thing because it kind of
1:25
Speaker 1: pertains to what our subject matter is for this episode.
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Speaker 1: But is there like a memory, like something specific from
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Speaker 1: your childhood that just doesn't exist anymore that you wish did?
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Speaker 1: Blockbuster like vhs, LL tapes like bro like that used
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Speaker 1: to be something in my household. We used to go
1:44
Speaker 1: rent movies and guess what, we take it back, you
1:47
Speaker 1: know what I mean, and go get something else. What
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Speaker 1: a notion, you know I'm saying. I don't think the
1:52
Speaker 1: kids these days, even Julie understand, was like a ritual.
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Speaker 1: It was a thing in my household, and it just
1:57
Speaker 1: let us know that we can stay up late, eat
1:59
Speaker 1: popcorn and all those things. So it kind of I
2:01
Speaker 1: don't know what's set the move for going into the weekend. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it was like a big thing on a Friday and
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Speaker 1: my mom would drive me. I used to get to
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Speaker 1: pick the movie, but you know, m rob like there
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Speaker 1: was that cut off time that that needed to be
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Speaker 1: seen and done because we weren't paying the extra late
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Speaker 1: fee like that was exactly not exactly. I bring this
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Speaker 1: up because for as much as we remember and the
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Speaker 1: glory days, because I still classify some of that stuff
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Speaker 1: as glory days. You know, the NFL game has changed
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Speaker 1: as well. In fact, when m Rob, when you and
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Speaker 1: I were listening to our walkman's and our discmand's, running
2:32
Speaker 1: backs were reigning supreme. So today's NFL explained, we are
2:36
Speaker 1: all about the running back position, specifically the decline. And
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Speaker 1: I know I kind of write the decline. Doesn't it
2:43
Speaker 1: feel bad to say we're here dancing and then you
2:46
Speaker 1: say the decline and I'm like, I don't know, We'll
2:49
Speaker 1: see yams. I hear that narrative of a lot, right,
2:53
Speaker 1: But like when you talk to defenders, they're like, man,
2:56
Speaker 1: I'd rather I'd rather go on the pass, Like if
2:58
Speaker 1: you got one of those guys, man, it's it's I
3:01
Speaker 1: don't really want to play against those guys all the time.
3:03
Speaker 1: I think it's maybe NFL offenses involving as well. Well.
3:08
Speaker 1: There is an episode on the evolution of offenses, uh,
3:11
Speaker 1: the evolution of wide receivers. If you've missed any of
3:13
Speaker 1: those episodes, bad job by you, but it's all good.
3:16
Speaker 1: You can make up for. You can check out a
3:18
Speaker 1: couple of those podcasts that M Rob and I did
3:20
Speaker 1: earlier this season. I do think it's important to go
3:23
Speaker 1: through some of the philosophies around the usage of running backs,
3:27
Speaker 1: but also in the Super Bowl era, what we've seen
3:29
Speaker 1: in terms of teams actually taking them. And I actually
3:33
Speaker 1: remember this switch go off in my head around fantasy
3:38
Speaker 1: drafts where you started to maybe even step away a
3:41
Speaker 1: little bit. At times you just realize, like, oh my god,
3:44
Speaker 1: the production for some of these running backs when I
3:45
Speaker 1: was a kid just different than what they were as
3:47
Speaker 1: I got a little bit older, So your draft strategy
3:50
Speaker 1: started to change a little bit. Check this out, Emrod.
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Speaker 1: The number of running backs taken in the top ten
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Speaker 1: of the draft, it has taken a big dive here.
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Speaker 1: Nineteen seventies, you had seventeen taken in the top ten.
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Speaker 1: The eighties when when we were just getting born as
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Speaker 1: millennial eighties, there were seventeen. The nineties, it dipped a
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Speaker 1: little bit to twelve. The two thousands still the greatest
4:11
Speaker 1: age of hip hop. I don't care what anyone says.
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Speaker 1: Nine seven and I know we're still early in the twenties,
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Speaker 1: but M Rob it's a doughnut right now. Zero running
4:22
Speaker 1: backs have been taken in the twenties. In fact, since
4:26
Speaker 1: the Giants State took one of our guys, say Kwon Barkley.
4:30
Speaker 1: The four years without a running back taken in the
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Speaker 1: top ten, it's the longest stretch in league history. To me,
4:35
Speaker 1: that is just mind boggling. And rob to hear numbers
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Speaker 1: like that, it is mind boggling. And it's only mind
4:40
Speaker 1: boggling because of how much the running back meant to
4:43
Speaker 1: the game early on, right, And I think that there's
4:46
Speaker 1: just so many different factors that come into place when
4:49
Speaker 1: you run in the football games, it's eleven on eleven.
4:51
Speaker 1: Like it's eleven guys, it takes all eleven players, even
4:54
Speaker 1: the quarterback carrying out. It's fake. It takes eleven people
4:57
Speaker 1: to run the football. And it's a physical thing, right
5:00
Speaker 1: and you know, our game is physical. Football is physical.
5:03
Speaker 1: But as we're trying to make the game a little
5:05
Speaker 1: safe for all players and things like that, I think
5:08
Speaker 1: the evolution of the passing game along with you know,
5:11
Speaker 1: being safer, I think that's why you're seeing a little
5:14
Speaker 1: bit of I don't want to use the word decline
5:17
Speaker 1: and running back to Yams. But I'm gonna say a
5:19
Speaker 1: little bit of looking at the running backs is a
5:23
Speaker 1: little is less importance to an offense. The usage has
5:27
Speaker 1: definitely changed, and we'll get into some of those usage numbers,
5:29
Speaker 1: but I think there might be some fans listening right
5:31
Speaker 1: now that go all right, Yams, you went top ten
5:34
Speaker 1: in terms of the running backs. What about first round guys? Well,
5:38
Speaker 1: there's also been and I don't know what other words
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Speaker 1: to use other than decline and rob sorry my friend
5:43
Speaker 1: in the first round, but just just to just set
5:46
Speaker 1: the stage here, seventies there was forty four running backs
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Speaker 1: take him in the first round. The eighties they were
5:51
Speaker 1: actually fifties slight uptick, and then it started to go downhill.
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Speaker 1: Nineties thirty four running backs to two thousands, thirty sixteen,
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Speaker 1: and in the twenties just three running backs take him
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Speaker 1: in the first round. As for number one overall running backs,
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Speaker 1: the last running back to go number one overall? Any
6:08
Speaker 1: idea and Rob like, I feel like you might have
6:11
Speaker 1: at least somewhat of an idea just kind of knowing
6:14
Speaker 1: your history. Who that Yeah? Okay, good Johnah Carter, you
6:18
Speaker 1: already know I knew that one. I mean that's one
6:20
Speaker 1: of those ones. I mean, you remember the rose Bow
6:22
Speaker 1: when he brooke first play all the way, I mean,
6:23
Speaker 1: don't get me started, don't give me started. When you
6:26
Speaker 1: go to Penn State, do they just like have that
6:28
Speaker 1: on like a video loop, like just moments like that.
6:32
Speaker 1: In my head, it does. You know what I'm saying.
6:34
Speaker 1: It's nowhere like FOA, but in my head, yes, it
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Speaker 1: is there. Uh well, m Rob. We actually have six
6:40
Speaker 1: running backs that have been drafted first overall in the
6:43
Speaker 1: Super Bowl era. Ricky Bell in seventy seven or O
6:46
Speaker 1: Campbell in seventy eight, Billy Sims in eighty, George Rogers
6:49
Speaker 1: and one Bo Jackson in a six, and then Carter
6:53
Speaker 1: and n side note. I saw a video and it
6:58
Speaker 1: was we at some point m ROB should do an
7:00
Speaker 1: episode about the best athletes to ever play football. Bo
7:04
Speaker 1: Jackson's gotta be on that list and Dion Sanders. I
7:07
Speaker 1: saw baseball clips of the two of them playing each other.
7:10
Speaker 1: It was somewhere on social media somewhere. I was like, dude,
7:14
Speaker 1: Bow was no joke. Bow is still probably the best
7:17
Speaker 1: athlete I think the world has ever seen. I'm with
7:19
Speaker 1: you on that one. I mean again, I don't want
7:21
Speaker 1: to talk about his injury too much, but to me,
7:24
Speaker 1: he almost ran up out of his hill. I mean
7:27
Speaker 1: you just look at how he was running to do
7:29
Speaker 1: so powerful off each single leg. I I remember that
7:32
Speaker 1: baseball catch really kind of ran up on the wall
7:34
Speaker 1: baseball wall. Oh, he's like straight up spider Man. Yes, yes,
7:38
Speaker 1: so you know how fast you gotta be running to
7:40
Speaker 1: actually do that, actually make that jump and stick to
7:43
Speaker 1: the wall as you're running. I mean, it's just it's
7:45
Speaker 1: just phenomenal, man, What a great athlete. What's after Millennials?
7:48
Speaker 1: Is it gen Z? I have no idea. Okay, so
7:52
Speaker 1: for that have no idea. I think it is so yeah,
7:55
Speaker 1: because X is before. So for the gen Zers or
7:58
Speaker 1: the young millennials, please YouTube Bo Jackson highlights. Trust me,
8:03
Speaker 1: it'll be worth like the five minutes to go down
8:05
Speaker 1: this EA path and maybe you'll never get out of
8:07
Speaker 1: the rabbit hole. UM. I mentioned sa Kwon Barkley a
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Speaker 1: little bit earlier here. He's one of those guys that
8:13
Speaker 1: I think has been as dynamic running back when he's
8:15
Speaker 1: healthy that we've seen in the NFL. But you tell me,
8:18
Speaker 1: m ro because we're seeing the numbers decline in terms
8:20
Speaker 1: of produce, maybe not production, actually a little bit on
8:23
Speaker 1: the production side, But in terms of going in that
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Speaker 1: first round, what are those traits? Like Barkley was special
8:28
Speaker 1: enough to be taken in the first round, in the
8:31
Speaker 1: top five, But is there something that you would point
8:33
Speaker 1: to for the traits that a current running back needs
8:36
Speaker 1: to have to be successful on Sundays? Well, I think again,
8:39
Speaker 1: and it goes back to the style of offenses that's
8:42
Speaker 1: being presented in the National Football League right now. We
8:45
Speaker 1: gotta we gotta be honest about things. Our game revolves
8:49
Speaker 1: around the quarterback position. Pass Rushers get paid a lot
8:52
Speaker 1: of money. Guys that can protect those guys get paid
8:54
Speaker 1: a lot of money. Now you're seeing an uptick and receivers,
8:56
Speaker 1: the guys catching the ball from those guys make a
8:59
Speaker 1: lot of money. And when you look at the running
9:01
Speaker 1: back position, it's really the only position where when when
9:04
Speaker 1: me as a running back, Yams I get the football,
9:06
Speaker 1: for a lot of times it's seven yards behind the
9:09
Speaker 1: line of scrimmage in all eleven defenders all eleven of
9:14
Speaker 1: have their eyes on you and start to attack the
9:17
Speaker 1: line of scrimmage to make the tackle. Like when a
9:20
Speaker 1: wide receiver catches the ball twenty yards down feel, the
9:22
Speaker 1: fifteen yards down feel. He may have two or three guys,
9:25
Speaker 1: three or four guys if you if you got guys
9:28
Speaker 1: tracing and coming back to make the tackle. But that's
9:31
Speaker 1: what makes the running back position like so unique. And
9:33
Speaker 1: I think that's why I take such a toll on guys.
9:36
Speaker 1: And when you talk about generational backs like a se
9:38
Speaker 1: Kwan Barkley, who I believe is a generational back, a
9:41
Speaker 1: guy like a Marshawn Lynch beastmo with the guy that
9:44
Speaker 1: I played with, who I believe, Um, those guys are
9:46
Speaker 1: generational backs to me. You can put them in any offense. Okay,
9:49
Speaker 1: they can run any scheme and they're super explosive. They're
9:53
Speaker 1: the guys that scare defensive coordinators like that they may
9:56
Speaker 1: go eighty yards for a touchdown like and totally outrun
9:59
Speaker 1: the defense. I remember when Reggie Bush came in with
10:01
Speaker 1: me when we first came in the National Football League
10:04
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six. The talk around, man, if
10:06
Speaker 1: this guy gets on the corner. I mean, I was
10:08
Speaker 1: attempted before the Niners and we play them, and I
10:11
Speaker 1: think you scored two or three touchdowns just being in
10:13
Speaker 1: space and out running everybody. So to me, from a
10:16
Speaker 1: generational backstandpoint, it doesn't matter what offense that you're in.
10:20
Speaker 1: You can do anything, you can catch, you can protect
10:22
Speaker 1: all of those things. But just playing the position and
10:26
Speaker 1: being serviceable in the position. And I know a lot
10:29
Speaker 1: of our listeners may not agree with me or understand this,
10:32
Speaker 1: but number one, you gotta be coachable. You can't just
10:36
Speaker 1: go out there and do what you want to do
10:39
Speaker 1: because you think that you know you're able to outrun everybody.
10:43
Speaker 1: And you see what I'm saying, and does one thing
10:46
Speaker 1: my running back coach told me in Seattle, Sharrem Smith.
10:49
Speaker 1: He used to always say, I can coach you from
10:51
Speaker 1: point A to point B, but after point B, that's
10:54
Speaker 1: what the creator made you for. That's you. You see
10:57
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So I think sometimes running back coaches
11:00
Speaker 1: get themselves in trouble about over coaching the position, you
11:03
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So Number one, as a player,
11:05
Speaker 1: you got to be coachable. You gotta understand scheme and
11:07
Speaker 1: things like that. I think number two, whether generation or
11:11
Speaker 1: any type of running back contact balance. Again, I just
11:14
Speaker 1: described scenarios where all eleven guys are coming after you
11:17
Speaker 1: when you get the football five to six yards behind
11:19
Speaker 1: the line of scrimmages unlike any other position. So oftentimes
11:23
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to go through some dirt, You're gonna
11:25
Speaker 1: have to go through some trash. You're gonna have to
11:27
Speaker 1: be able to take hits, you know what I'm saying,
11:29
Speaker 1: And and and and get through this orchestration of blocking
11:33
Speaker 1: to get you to the second level so that you
11:35
Speaker 1: can be very special and do with the creative puts
11:38
Speaker 1: you on just planning to do, and that's run, make
11:39
Speaker 1: people miss, and be explosive and things like that. I'm
11:42
Speaker 1: not gonna sit here and say right now that having
11:45
Speaker 1: that super breakaway speed is something that you have to
11:48
Speaker 1: have at the position. But definitely being coachable, having contact
11:53
Speaker 1: balance and obviously not turning the football over, being able
11:57
Speaker 1: to get hit and not cost the football up, and
12:00
Speaker 1: obviously getting dirty three or four yards things like that,
12:03
Speaker 1: to me, that would get you on the field, and um,
12:06
Speaker 1: depending on the level of skill you have throughout that
12:09
Speaker 1: little checklist of some things that I just threw out
12:12
Speaker 1: there to me, that would determine, you know, how much
12:15
Speaker 1: you get the football, how much will use you in
12:17
Speaker 1: the office. You brought up Marshawn Lynch and Reggie right,
12:22
Speaker 1: So to me, you classified them both as generational, but
12:26
Speaker 1: I think they did it so differently, right, I mean
12:29
Speaker 1: you just talked about Reggie just doing it in space
12:31
Speaker 1: like I think about beast just running over you. Am
12:34
Speaker 1: I hold up, Hold up, I want to correct you.
12:37
Speaker 1: And maybe I misspoke. I wasn't saying Reggie was generational. Back.
12:41
Speaker 1: What I was saying is his speed, right when you
12:45
Speaker 1: put him in space like Sean Payton did totally mess
12:49
Speaker 1: defenses up. No, No, what I mean. And being the
12:52
Speaker 1: fact that he's a running back that contact balance, he
12:55
Speaker 1: can break tackles, and I think you're starting to see
12:58
Speaker 1: that with guys like Tyreek Hill and things like that.
13:00
Speaker 1: When you talk about beast mode, Yeah, if you're a
13:02
Speaker 1: pack team guy, you come back. People don't remember beasts
13:05
Speaker 1: over that cow. U Oh yeah. Dude was like two
13:10
Speaker 1: five pounds. He caught bubble screens and would go ninety yards.
13:14
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. The b smoke thing came
13:17
Speaker 1: when when he did encounter contact, it was like, dude,
13:21
Speaker 1: he was like the Tasmanian devil. He just didn't want
13:23
Speaker 1: to You just didn't want to tackle him. But be
13:25
Speaker 1: smo had real speed. I mean, we had to play
13:27
Speaker 1: against Detroit. I think it was inel We had a
13:30
Speaker 1: little pitch play. Um I ended up cutting down the
13:33
Speaker 1: the the alley defender, and I actually as I'm rolling
13:36
Speaker 1: on the ground, you can't cut these guys in space
13:38
Speaker 1: no more. But as I'm rolling on the ground, I
13:40
Speaker 1: see him, you know, basically take a stride over top
13:43
Speaker 1: of me and go seventy six yards. He was two
13:46
Speaker 1: hundred thirty pounds. I mean, just the explosion off each
13:49
Speaker 1: single leg. Um be smore a little different games. I
13:52
Speaker 1: thought that might be a whole podcast on its own.
13:55
Speaker 1: Be smoke, just a little different. When you talk about
13:57
Speaker 1: the running back position, well that I'm actually glad you
13:59
Speaker 1: classic characterized it that way because I thought you met
14:03
Speaker 1: with Reggie that the plus one and what he was
14:06
Speaker 1: able to do in space that was like the generational
14:09
Speaker 1: type aspect of his game, whereas like bism was like
14:12
Speaker 1: the totality of the everything that he did. So that's
14:15
Speaker 1: kind of where I was going with you look at
14:17
Speaker 1: it that way. I mentioned the guys that were drafted.
14:20
Speaker 1: I got some other numbers for you. M Rob the workhorse,
14:24
Speaker 1: because you always think about the guy that's just the
14:26
Speaker 1: bell cow back. It actually hit its peak in the
14:29
Speaker 1: nineties and the early two thousands. So check out some
14:31
Speaker 1: of these numbers here and rob the number of running
14:34
Speaker 1: backs averaging at least eighteen carries per game. Check this
14:37
Speaker 1: out nine, there were twelve two thousand, fifteen, two thousand, five, fourteen, nineteen, three, three,
14:48
Speaker 1: and then in two right now four. So in two
14:52
Speaker 1: thousand four, I know that's a lot of numbers here,
14:53
Speaker 1: but you would stick with me in two thousand four,
14:55
Speaker 1: it's crazy right now four it's and you'll you'll know
15:02
Speaker 1: who those dudes are because it's obviously not a long list.
15:04
Speaker 1: But uh, two thousand four, sixteen running backs average twenty
15:09
Speaker 1: plus carries a game as a starter. I know there's
15:11
Speaker 1: a lot of numbers here, but just stick with me.
15:15
Speaker 1: Through fifteen weeks, we only have to just two guys,
15:18
Speaker 1: Josh Jacobs and Derrick Henry. In the history of the league,
15:22
Speaker 1: back has gone over three hundred carries in the season
15:25
Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty one times, but only ten of
15:28
Speaker 1: those occurred since Zeke, Elliott and Henry accounted for five
15:33
Speaker 1: of those guys. I mean, look at Tennessee's offense. I
15:37
Speaker 1: mean the style of offense. I mean, wouldn't you I
15:40
Speaker 1: would run of forty times if his body could handle it,
15:43
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? To be fair, his body
15:45
Speaker 1: can handle it. I think the problem is, m Rob,
15:48
Speaker 1: they don't have enough explosive please, and it's almost like
15:50
Speaker 1: unfair to Derrick Henry to ask that much of them.
15:54
Speaker 1: But a part of this has been the increase in
15:57
Speaker 1: the passing game. Once again, go back and check out
16:00
Speaker 1: our episode about the evolution of offenses, specifically the wide
16:03
Speaker 1: receiver spot. Since nineteen set, many teams are running ten
16:06
Speaker 1: percent less and throwing the ball at nearly a fifty
16:09
Speaker 1: seven percent clip in. Rushing touchdowns have also significantly decreased,
16:16
Speaker 1: which means passing touchdowns have increased. We're well over two
16:20
Speaker 1: times it's likely to see a throwing touchdown than a
16:23
Speaker 1: rushing touchdown. And Rob, how much of this is situational football?
16:28
Speaker 1: Running backs coming out of the backfield on maybe third
16:31
Speaker 1: down instead of like putting their head down, just kind
16:33
Speaker 1: of running with the football. Like, is it the running
16:35
Speaker 1: back that's just not necessarily that bell cow or is
16:38
Speaker 1: it the skill sets just different for some of these dudes.
16:40
Speaker 1: I think it's just the skill sets are just different.
16:43
Speaker 1: For a lot of these guys, I think, oh, this
16:47
Speaker 1: is this is heavy because I think it starts on
16:49
Speaker 1: the lower levels and it develops a psychology and the
16:52
Speaker 1: player and then the guys that are coaching these players
16:56
Speaker 1: have to respond to. Let me give you an example, like, um,
17:01
Speaker 1: you know, I helped some coaches in college. I hope
17:03
Speaker 1: some universities with managing some of the things that they
17:06
Speaker 1: managed right. And what will happen is you'll have a
17:09
Speaker 1: recruit that wants to come to your school, or you
17:13
Speaker 1: have a recruit that you promised a certain amount of
17:15
Speaker 1: playing time for and you know, you have a guy
17:19
Speaker 1: who maybe one of the tops in the country, and
17:21
Speaker 1: you have to get this kid playing time. So you
17:24
Speaker 1: figure out different unique situations or game planning opportunities to
17:28
Speaker 1: put this kid in the game. I was one of
17:31
Speaker 1: those kids at Penn State, meaning, um, yeah, I told
17:35
Speaker 1: Coach Paternal plenty of times I was going to transfer
17:38
Speaker 1: because I wanted I wanted to play at some point
17:41
Speaker 1: and I just didn't see many athletes that I thought
17:44
Speaker 1: we're better than me, and I'm just like, well, can
17:46
Speaker 1: we figure out a way to get me at the
17:47
Speaker 1: quarterback position? And so what happened was they started coming
17:51
Speaker 1: up with the MIC package. They started coming up with
17:53
Speaker 1: certain things, and I developed a certain skills set in
17:56
Speaker 1: certain packages and things like that. And what happened was
17:59
Speaker 1: when North Turner, when I was at the San Francisco
18:01
Speaker 1: for the nine is my rookie year, knowing that knowledge,
18:04
Speaker 1: it carried over and I became a third down back
18:07
Speaker 1: for this everything before the nine Is. And it wasn't
18:09
Speaker 1: that I was better at third down than Frank Gore
18:11
Speaker 1: all the time, because he he took a lot of
18:13
Speaker 1: the third downs and he was the bell cow type
18:16
Speaker 1: of a back, But at the end of the day,
18:17
Speaker 1: whenever he needed a break, I was the first guy
18:20
Speaker 1: that going to third down, maybe not some of the
18:22
Speaker 1: other guys that we had on the team that maybe
18:24
Speaker 1: didn't have that background or skill set being in third down,
18:27
Speaker 1: having the third down eyes, always looking for blitchers from
18:31
Speaker 1: the second level, understanding safeties that come from deep, being
18:34
Speaker 1: able to chip your way out all those things. That's
18:36
Speaker 1: a that's a special skill set that again, unless you
18:39
Speaker 1: are a certain type of back, Yeah, you're just not
18:42
Speaker 1: gonna always be able to have all of these skills
18:46
Speaker 1: or whatever, just because you're just not gonna be always
18:48
Speaker 1: required to do it. So I do think it's a
18:50
Speaker 1: little bit of something that starts on the lower levels
18:52
Speaker 1: that develops the psychology and the kid and coaches are
18:55
Speaker 1: just doing what they have to do to be more
18:57
Speaker 1: explosive and put points on the board and obviously saved
19:00
Speaker 1: their jobs. So I think that's why you're seeing so
19:03
Speaker 1: many different types of guys play and run football, and
19:07
Speaker 1: generational backs are just hard to find. Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch,
19:11
Speaker 1: guys like that, sa Kwan Barkley with those types of
19:14
Speaker 1: skill sets. They're not they don't grow on trees. They're
19:17
Speaker 1: not just you know, just like those franchise types of quarterbacks.
19:21
Speaker 1: I tell all of our listeners and people that watch football,
19:24
Speaker 1: just watch se Kwon Barkley. The fact that he might
19:26
Speaker 1: get the ball seven times in a row and still
19:29
Speaker 1: have you still be able to run super fast in
19:31
Speaker 1: full speed and things like that. That's part of his
19:34
Speaker 1: superpower and what makes them a generational back. It's interesting
19:37
Speaker 1: I'm looking at some of these numbers here and as
19:41
Speaker 1: you're describing some of the the running backs who just
19:44
Speaker 1: get it done in a big way. I I talked
19:46
Speaker 1: to Austin Ekeler before the season started. And I actually
19:51
Speaker 1: don't have the numbers in front of me, but the
19:52
Speaker 1: point is I think he was leading. I think he
19:54
Speaker 1: had like the most rushing touchdowns in the NFL, and
19:57
Speaker 1: it was tied with Jonathan Taylor. And I had asked
20:00
Speaker 1: him with it, and don't quote me on the exact
20:01
Speaker 1: numbers here, but he had said, Hey, I don't do
20:05
Speaker 1: what Jonathan Taylor does. He goes, get me out in space,
20:08
Speaker 1: I'll figure it out. He goes, Jonathan Taylor is gonna
20:10
Speaker 1: run over you. And I think it speaks to what
20:12
Speaker 1: you're describing some of the skill sets for some of
20:14
Speaker 1: these guys. There's different ways that they can go and produce.
20:17
Speaker 1: Are you noticing because you do a tome with youth football,
20:21
Speaker 1: are you making sure that some of your younger players,
20:24
Speaker 1: or even the college guys, the high school kids that
20:26
Speaker 1: you're with that want to be running backs, are more
20:30
Speaker 1: aware of past catching ability and how paramount that's going
20:34
Speaker 1: to be as we get closer to a passing game. Absolutely. Absolutely.
20:39
Speaker 1: And actually, and I mentioned his name a little bit earlier,
20:42
Speaker 1: Tyreek Hill. To me, it's how Rich Hill is the
20:45
Speaker 1: personification of running back wide receiver coming together to form
20:51
Speaker 1: this nice little joke of energy and ball of electricity,
20:55
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like for real, he's really
20:57
Speaker 1: a wing back in the old wing t offense. That's
21:00
Speaker 1: what Tyreek Hill is and what I'm seeing on the
21:03
Speaker 1: youth level, in the high school level, a lot of
21:05
Speaker 1: while received was are starting to see that skill set
21:07
Speaker 1: and work on their speed there. They want to be
21:10
Speaker 1: like that Tyreek Hill. And what makes to me, what
21:14
Speaker 1: makes him scary is the ability to break tackles. What
21:19
Speaker 1: makes running backs scary is your ability to break tackles
21:23
Speaker 1: and then go eighty right. And so you look at
21:27
Speaker 1: the San Francisco for the Niners right now, right they
21:29
Speaker 1: have Christian McCaffrey. They just got him, and yes, um,
21:33
Speaker 1: what you'll see is him and Deebo Samuel in the
21:36
Speaker 1: game at the same time. You'll see Deebo Samuel in
21:39
Speaker 1: the slot push the McCaffrey in the backfield, and you'll
21:42
Speaker 1: see them switch up, sometimes as a shift. Sometimes they
21:45
Speaker 1: just break the huddle switch with Deebo Samuel in the
21:48
Speaker 1: backfield and Christian McCaffrey in the slot. And Kyle Shanahan's
21:53
Speaker 1: mind and in a play caller's mind, it really didn't
21:55
Speaker 1: matter which one of those guys get the ball, whether
21:57
Speaker 1: it's handing the football, are just throwing it to him.
22:00
Speaker 1: You just want to get a guy who can break tackles,
22:02
Speaker 1: who has great contact ballots and a physical fight to
22:07
Speaker 1: bring down. You just want to put the ball in
22:10
Speaker 1: his hands, whether it's in space where there's running the
22:12
Speaker 1: football at the running back position. And yes, I think
22:14
Speaker 1: we're we're morphing into that world where running backs, while receivers,
22:20
Speaker 1: all of those things are starting to kind of be
22:23
Speaker 1: the same guy, so to speak. I still think it's
22:25
Speaker 1: gonna always be that role for that guy to dot
22:28
Speaker 1: that's gonna, you know, get those dirty two or three
22:31
Speaker 1: yards because I don't think a guy like a Deebo
22:33
Speaker 1: Samuel or Tyreek Hill can line up in the eye
22:36
Speaker 1: on a consistent basis right and get a fourth and one,
22:40
Speaker 1: you know, third and four things like that unless a
22:42
Speaker 1: scheme to be that. So I do think it's still
22:44
Speaker 1: gonna be that for running back. But yeah, with the
22:47
Speaker 1: way that offenses are evolving and things are just again
22:50
Speaker 1: being more explosive and the balls around the quarterback, the
22:53
Speaker 1: quarterback is gonna have to be able to put the
22:55
Speaker 1: ball in these again, these wing back type of guys positions.
22:59
Speaker 1: And again when I say wing back, it's a running
23:01
Speaker 1: back that's has speed and can line up on the
23:04
Speaker 1: outside as why receiver. To me, they're starting to be synonymous.
23:07
Speaker 1: You know, as I'm listening to it reminds me of
23:10
Speaker 1: a conversation we had about defensive players and encourage people
23:13
Speaker 1: to check or listen to that podcast episode because it
23:16
Speaker 1: is kind of like these freakazoid guys who are super long,
23:20
Speaker 1: super athletic. I don't want to call it positionless football
23:23
Speaker 1: on the defensive side, but it almost is what you're describing.
23:26
Speaker 1: For I don't know how else to characterize it better
23:28
Speaker 1: than that, it almost feels like positionless football for some
23:30
Speaker 1: of these players. Is where you think it goes. Yes,
23:34
Speaker 1: it's it's coming because again, the defense is matching up
23:37
Speaker 1: to what they're being presented with from an offensive standpoint,
23:41
Speaker 1: And and I know it was earlier in the season,
23:43
Speaker 1: and I may have to check out some of the staff,
23:45
Speaker 1: but I do think there's gonna be a resurgence of
23:48
Speaker 1: the run game because as the defenders are starting to
23:53
Speaker 1: adjust from a body standpoint, right and get small, get
23:55
Speaker 1: a little smaller and leaner why not just run isso
23:59
Speaker 1: and leads and just run right at them. It's it's
24:01
Speaker 1: not pretty football, but it does get the job done.
24:03
Speaker 1: All right. The running back conversation will continue here and
24:07
Speaker 1: more specifically, and and I think Gen xers and older
24:11
Speaker 1: millennials you know what I'm talking about. You know when
24:13
Speaker 1: did he I guess he was puffy at that point
24:15
Speaker 1: said it's all about the Benjamin's. They're not getting the
24:18
Speaker 1: Benjamin's that they used to get. Will explain why that is.
24:21
Speaker 1: That's coming up next on the NFL Explained podcast. Welcome
24:31
Speaker 1: back to the NFL Explained Podcast. We're talking about the
24:33
Speaker 1: decline of the running backs, and you know it's the
24:36
Speaker 1: time of the show, right, you know what I'm talk
24:38
Speaker 1: about the d M S Man here we go. You
24:43
Speaker 1: know what's kind of crazy about it. I think people
24:45
Speaker 1: started on our team getting annoyed that I was doing it,
24:47
Speaker 1: and then they started to realize people have been d
24:51
Speaker 1: M and me and I keep throwing out questions and
24:53
Speaker 1: everyone's like, oh okay, now it's a thing. So if
24:56
Speaker 1: you have a question, don't know who to ask, you
24:58
Speaker 1: know who that person is. You can slide it to
25:00
Speaker 1: the d M S and Ron's planning, not mine. So
25:05
Speaker 1: if have some questions, I promise at some point where
25:07
Speaker 1: actually our our team, and our team needs so much
25:10
Speaker 1: love and they deserve a lot of love because Lord knows,
25:12
Speaker 1: and Rob, you and I couldn't do the show without him.
25:14
Speaker 1: But their work in diligently that we're compiling all the questions,
25:17
Speaker 1: We've got another mail bag episode. Some of the questions
25:19
Speaker 1: were so damn good that we're making full episodes out
25:23
Speaker 1: of them. So there's still a lot to come. Send
25:25
Speaker 1: us a message on social media that said, you know,
25:29
Speaker 1: it's my favorite subject. It makes me sounds really superficial,
25:32
Speaker 1: but I don't even care. It's money, man, It's it's
25:35
Speaker 1: it is man. It's what makes the world go round,
25:39
Speaker 1: no doubt, no doubt. I'm still a renter. So I'm
25:42
Speaker 1: trying to get as many of those Benjamin's as I can.
25:44
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, So cal real estate is
25:46
Speaker 1: no joke, man, If money talks, and that is the case,
25:50
Speaker 1: because m Rob said it is, and so do I.
25:53
Speaker 1: I think it's important stick a look at some of
25:55
Speaker 1: the dollar figures that running backs are getting. If you
25:58
Speaker 1: look at the average top five players at every position
26:01
Speaker 1: excluding sorry, I'm rob fullbacks, kickers, punters, and long snappers. Know,
26:06
Speaker 1: running back is the second lowest paid position. That is
26:10
Speaker 1: wild to me, Centers, centers, centers. So I actually think
26:16
Speaker 1: this is kind of messed up, right, Like centers are. Yeah,
26:19
Speaker 1: your facial expression says it all. They're like I get
26:22
Speaker 1: you know, quarterbacks getting all the money that they are.
26:24
Speaker 1: You know, we talked about wide receivers getting paid. Running
26:26
Speaker 1: Backs are absolutely abused on the football field, right The
26:30
Speaker 1: longevity of that position is so hard. But what do
26:33
Speaker 1: you make of that? And by the way, so center
26:34
Speaker 1: at thirteen point two million, running back fourteen point two,
26:37
Speaker 1: tight en fourteen point nine, guards sixteen point five, and
26:41
Speaker 1: linebacker seventeen million, that's your bottom five. I mean, okay,
26:45
Speaker 1: so guard, I'm looking at the offensive line product which
26:49
Speaker 1: you just say to guard makes almost three and a
26:52
Speaker 1: half million more on average than the center. At least
26:56
Speaker 1: the centers I've come in contact with, yams and the
26:58
Speaker 1: centers that I've had experience with in my life, they're
27:02
Speaker 1: smarter than the quarterback. More often times they're smarter than
27:05
Speaker 1: the quarterback. Have we seen probably the number one offensive
27:09
Speaker 1: line in football right now? The Philadelphia Eagles and who's there?
27:12
Speaker 1: Who are they led by? They led by their center
27:15
Speaker 1: and Jason Kelsey, he pulls, he does everything. That number
27:19
Speaker 1: was shocking to me, even though I should have known it,
27:22
Speaker 1: but it was shocking to me. But yeah, um, here's
27:25
Speaker 1: the deal. Backs, I get it. They pay us, and
27:28
Speaker 1: then it seems like either our production goes down or
27:31
Speaker 1: your generational guy like Adrian Peter central on Marshawn let
27:35
Speaker 1: you continues to get bigger contracts. I get it, because, Yams,
27:39
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, most running backs have been playing running
27:42
Speaker 1: back their entire life. And hear me out here, man,
27:45
Speaker 1: so my entire life, I've had eleven guys on the
27:49
Speaker 1: other side of the line of scrimmage hitting me or
27:52
Speaker 1: trying to hit me for free. Are free? Okay? And
27:57
Speaker 1: I finally got an opportunity to break the bag. Okay,
28:01
Speaker 1: I finally get an opportunity to break the back. I
28:04
Speaker 1: think it's human nature for most people to just exhale,
28:08
Speaker 1: and I think that's what you see with most backs.
28:11
Speaker 1: I think they run for the money, right, and then
28:14
Speaker 1: when they look in their bank account and they see
28:17
Speaker 1: the zeros, it's hard to continue to take that punishment
28:22
Speaker 1: over sustained period of time. Again, unless you're a generational guy,
28:26
Speaker 1: unless you're doing it for other reasons, it's hard to
28:28
Speaker 1: do that. And I think, just subconsciously, I think that's
28:32
Speaker 1: why play usually slacks off after the running back gets paid. Okay,
28:35
Speaker 1: So it doesn't make sense then that GM's are paying
28:38
Speaker 1: them a little bit less because there's the business side
28:40
Speaker 1: of it, right, I guess. So it's I guess the
28:43
Speaker 1: business side of it. I guess. For me, just knowing
28:45
Speaker 1: and seeing a lot of the backs on our league,
28:48
Speaker 1: I just think we got a lot of talented guys. Man,
28:51
Speaker 1: I just think we got a lot of diverse and
28:52
Speaker 1: talented guys in our league. Just that sometimes scheme doesn't
28:55
Speaker 1: always show off their talents all all the way. But
28:58
Speaker 1: you are. You are a scheme guy though generally, and
29:02
Speaker 1: like that sometimes can be a recipe for success. We've
29:05
Speaker 1: seen over the decades certain running backs have a lot
29:09
Speaker 1: of success in one type of offense, go to another
29:13
Speaker 1: team and they don't have nearly the same type of productions.
29:17
Speaker 1: I think that's a Quarterbacks do that too, and they
29:21
Speaker 1: still get paid them money even when we I mean
29:26
Speaker 1: Russell's they were gonna be in Denver next year and
29:29
Speaker 1: again scheme change may not have been the best thing
29:32
Speaker 1: for him. Do you think you said just like I
29:42
Speaker 1: see it? That's all. But but I'm just saying for
29:44
Speaker 1: other positions, scheme don't Oh you know what I'm saying
29:48
Speaker 1: to scheme that that scheme narrative been no always used
29:51
Speaker 1: to not pay them. I don't know why it's always
29:53
Speaker 1: used with the running back position. Okay, that makes me
29:56
Speaker 1: think about quarterbacks. And by the way, we did an
29:59
Speaker 1: episode on this check that out. Have I ever promoted
30:03
Speaker 1: more of our other previous shows in a show but
30:05
Speaker 1: for I'm getting a lot of like head non nos,
30:08
Speaker 1: but their loving it, so uh, check out some of
30:11
Speaker 1: those episodes and if they'll explain podcast. Um. I started
30:14
Speaker 1: thinking about the quarterback position, specifically quarterbacks who are mobile enough, right,
30:17
Speaker 1: so Lamar Jackson certainly comes to mind. I think the
30:20
Speaker 1: Ravens are a good sort of test case here. The Ravens.
30:24
Speaker 1: We think about them is run first, clearly. I'm looking
30:26
Speaker 1: at some of the numbers here. Top ten rushing teams
30:29
Speaker 1: all time in the Super Bowl era Number one, twenty
30:32
Speaker 1: nineteen Baltimore Ravens, who rushed for three thousand, two hundred
30:36
Speaker 1: nineties six yards They're also number four on the list,
30:39
Speaker 1: this Ravens team, with seven teams being from the nineteen
30:43
Speaker 1: seventies and one being from the nineteen eighties. Like this
30:46
Speaker 1: is wild to me. Those Ravens squads. By the way
30:49
Speaker 1: that I just made reference to the nineteen ones, how
30:53
Speaker 1: about fourteen and two and eleven and five. Those were
30:55
Speaker 1: their records here the ground and pound. Yeah, there's still
30:58
Speaker 1: something to be said there. And I'll take it even
30:59
Speaker 1: a step further. M Rob. You might think it's one dimensional,
31:02
Speaker 1: it's only the run game. How about this though that
31:05
Speaker 1: didn't even match up. The total yardage only accounted for
31:07
Speaker 1: fifty of their total offense, So we are still talking
31:11
Speaker 1: about a little bit of a balanced team here. Can't
31:14
Speaker 1: talk about those Ravens without mentioning, Yes, of course Lamar
31:17
Speaker 1: and his running ability over twelve hundred yards on that
31:20
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen team. Over the course of fifteen years, the
31:22
Speaker 1: amount of design runs for quarterbacks has increased more than
31:26
Speaker 1: one and a half times, from one thousand, four hundred
31:29
Speaker 1: eighty two in two thousand six to over two hundred
31:34
Speaker 1: one yardage gained by quarterbacks on the ground. That numbers
31:38
Speaker 1: increased twofold just about fifty three hundred yards to over
31:42
Speaker 1: ten thousand yards in that same exact span. So can
31:46
Speaker 1: the quarterback in your mind, m rob And I know
31:50
Speaker 1: I'm looking at like a Bill's helmet in the background,
31:52
Speaker 1: So you know, orm this one dude that I'm thinking about. Yeah,
31:55
Speaker 1: uh in Josh Allen. But can those running quarterbacks can
31:58
Speaker 1: they make up for some of the deficiencies that you're
32:00
Speaker 1: seeing in terms of running backs who aren't producing at
32:02
Speaker 1: a super high level. Absolutely, those quarterbacks also make up
32:06
Speaker 1: for bad coaching. But I'll say this. You know how
32:09
Speaker 1: I classified movement quarterbacks, right. You have runners with passing ability.
32:14
Speaker 1: Those are Lamar Jackson's. Those are the Jalen Hurts. That
32:17
Speaker 1: was who Michael Robinson was and I'm still waiting for
32:21
Speaker 1: one of those guys to win a Super Bowl again.
32:25
Speaker 1: Runners with passing ability, now, you have passers with movement ability.
32:31
Speaker 1: Those are the Russell Wilson's. Those the Steve Young's of
32:33
Speaker 1: the world like that. You see what I'm saying, Patrick
32:36
Speaker 1: Mahomes guys like that, even even Josh Allen, Because I
32:39
Speaker 1: don't think Josh Allen's a runner. I think he has
32:41
Speaker 1: a He's big, strong, and he has the ability to
32:44
Speaker 1: run you over. Is that like Cam Newton? Yes, like
32:47
Speaker 1: Cam new To me, Cam Newton was a runner and
32:50
Speaker 1: he ran like that, right, he ran powerful. He ran
32:53
Speaker 1: by lowering his shoulder, and lowering that shoulder got his
32:57
Speaker 1: a c joint or got his shoulder to a point
32:59
Speaker 1: where he's not throwing the football where you want it.
33:01
Speaker 1: I think that's why you're gonna see um. You know,
33:04
Speaker 1: I think Jayalen Hurts got nicked up. We could saw
33:07
Speaker 1: a goal or whatever whatever. And they're being cautious about
33:09
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Eagles because he's a runner, and when you
33:13
Speaker 1: have a runner at the quarterback position, it can affect
33:16
Speaker 1: the throwing. I'm good with my quarterback being a runner.
33:20
Speaker 1: I still have to be proven, right, I still gotta
33:23
Speaker 1: see one of those guys when win a Super Bowl.
33:25
Speaker 1: But I'm good with my quarterback being a runner as
33:27
Speaker 1: long as he's a smart runner, as long as we
33:30
Speaker 1: can limit the designated call quarterback runs where he actually
33:35
Speaker 1: has to take a bunch of punishment. If we can
33:37
Speaker 1: call a quarterback run, I'm calling a sweep where he
33:40
Speaker 1: can kind of get out of bounds and protect him
33:42
Speaker 1: from himself. So yeah, the running quarterback is here to stay.
33:47
Speaker 1: The running offense for a quarterback is here to stay.
33:50
Speaker 1: But we gotta see these guys win the Super Bowl
33:52
Speaker 1: before I think we can call it super legitimate and look,
33:55
Speaker 1: it might happen. It might be a Philadelphia Eagles team
33:57
Speaker 1: at Jalen Hurtson together on the short list of teams
33:59
Speaker 1: that could go and do it all right, Welcome back
34:08
Speaker 1: to the NFL Explained podcasts. Mike Yam and Rob with
34:11
Speaker 1: you and Rob, you told me earlier you're a big
34:13
Speaker 1: scheme guy. I started thinking about players who are versatile enough.
34:17
Speaker 1: Deebo Samuel certainly comes to my Tyreek Hill. You mentioned
34:20
Speaker 1: jet sweeps. Sometimes we're seeing these wide outs and how
34:23
Speaker 1: they're used. I think the best example is Debo because
34:26
Speaker 1: there's almost been a concerted effort to have him at
34:29
Speaker 1: times in that backfield and lineup as a running back.
34:32
Speaker 1: I think with Tyreek gets more of emotion thing. Sometimes
34:35
Speaker 1: you'll even see a tight end be in those situations
34:38
Speaker 1: as well. Just from a number standpoint, here in the
34:40
Speaker 1: two thousand season, we actually saw wide outs carry the
34:43
Speaker 1: ball two hundred and fifteen times, and that numbers actually
34:47
Speaker 1: increased to four hundred and thirty three one. Like I
34:51
Speaker 1: I saw that number and I did a double take
34:53
Speaker 1: at it. The yardage for wide receivers as runners have
34:57
Speaker 1: gone from basically fourteen hundreds to almost twenty seven hundred.
35:00
Speaker 1: That's almost two times the same amount there, So why
35:03
Speaker 1: dots huge weapons? We did that episode about a ution
35:06
Speaker 1: to the wide receiver spot. I mentioned position list football
35:09
Speaker 1: and Rob ten years from now, twenty years from now,
35:12
Speaker 1: is that what we're gonna be talking about in the NFL,
35:13
Speaker 1: where you're not really a running back per se, You're
35:16
Speaker 1: not necessarily a wide receiver. You're just a dude who's
35:19
Speaker 1: an athlete and you can get out into space and
35:21
Speaker 1: make things happen. You're an offensive weapon. You're an offensive weapon.
35:25
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. You can carry the football, you can
35:27
Speaker 1: catch you out of backfield. You just guys. I remember
35:30
Speaker 1: when I first started getting really into the National Football League,
35:33
Speaker 1: my rookie year and learning defenses and learning some of
35:36
Speaker 1: these blitz packages, and I remember our offensive coordinator, I
35:39
Speaker 1: think it was no Alterno at the time, he said,
35:41
Speaker 1: I know this guy's a got a fifty number, but
35:45
Speaker 1: his body type, at some point he's gonna run to
35:48
Speaker 1: the safety. Forget about their numbers. They're all excess when
35:52
Speaker 1: he blitzes he's four weeks forget that he is wearing
35:56
Speaker 1: a cornerbacks number. They don't matter. They're all excess. And
36:00
Speaker 1: I think what's happening is or what's coming to the
36:04
Speaker 1: National Football League defenses are now I'm gonna start to
36:06
Speaker 1: look at offenses and say the exact same thing. Okay,
36:09
Speaker 1: you got the five guys blocking, and you got the quarterback.
36:12
Speaker 1: Everybody else or exits, it doesn't matter. And now you're
36:15
Speaker 1: starting to talk about stem and things like that. You
36:19
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying and defend concepts not necessarily individual players. Yes, Yams,
36:25
Speaker 1: I think it's coming. And wait until we get to
36:28
Speaker 1: the platoon system at quarterback. Josh Allen even said that
36:31
Speaker 1: on his one on one sitting down with me a
36:32
Speaker 1: few weeks ago, talking about the platoon system at quarterback.
36:35
Speaker 1: I do think that is coming based off of the
36:37
Speaker 1: amount of money those guys are making. You think you're
36:39
Speaker 1: telling me Josh Allen's gonna step off the field. Hell,
36:42
Speaker 1: he said, he's not man not someone else might do that.
36:47
Speaker 1: He was talking about the future. He was like, yeah,
36:49
Speaker 1: maybe the future after I'm you know, from here, maybe
36:52
Speaker 1: they're bringing two guys to kind of do what I do.
36:54
Speaker 1: Can you imagine MCDA saying, hey, Josh, like you said,
36:57
Speaker 1: be like, hell though, I'm not coming off, that's just
37:00
Speaker 1: stocking out. That has me thinking here about winning the
37:03
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, winning the Chef. I look and maybe I'm
37:07
Speaker 1: saving the best for the last year, and maybe we
37:08
Speaker 1: shouldn't have stacked the podcast this wik But I saw
37:11
Speaker 1: some of these numbers and I'm like, you gotta be
37:13
Speaker 1: kidding me. This is wild. I just want to put
37:16
Speaker 1: some of this stuff in context for some of our
37:18
Speaker 1: listeners here, because I think about traditional football, right, it's
37:21
Speaker 1: it's run the ball and play defense, and that's what's
37:23
Speaker 1: gonna win. I don't know if you can make that
37:26
Speaker 1: case anymore that that's how things are moving. We took
37:29
Speaker 1: a look at the last ten Super Bowl champions. Leading
37:32
Speaker 1: Russia on those teams finished on average eighteen one eight
37:37
Speaker 1: eighteenth in the league in yards. Some of the notables
37:40
Speaker 1: on the list chiefs leading Russia in twenty nineteen Dammian Williams,
37:44
Speaker 1: dude finish thirty nine in yards. But see, okay, you're
37:49
Speaker 1: saying I get I get what you're saying, But isn't
37:52
Speaker 1: that kind of that's kind of leading right, because I
37:56
Speaker 1: would like to see his yards per rush and his
37:59
Speaker 1: impact in the playoffs that year, because he was awesome
38:03
Speaker 1: in the playoffs that year. But when you talk about
38:05
Speaker 1: a whole Kansas City office, they don't use running best
38:08
Speaker 1: like that exactly. I don't disagree with you, but it
38:11
Speaker 1: speaks to how you can still win at times or
38:16
Speaker 1: even get to the super Bowl and not half your
38:19
Speaker 1: We're breaking tradition is really what I'm what I'm trying
38:22
Speaker 1: to say here, you don't need the dude who's like,
38:24
Speaker 1: you know, the guy who's going to run for two
38:25
Speaker 1: thousand yards. I mean, it's nice, but like those days,
38:30
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like, you know, huge totals
38:32
Speaker 1: and now you get to a thousand, you're feeling really
38:33
Speaker 1: good about yourself and you're pumping up your chest here.
38:36
Speaker 1: But I'll give you some other examples here Patriots leading rusher,
38:39
Speaker 1: and I know that this sort of speaks to what
38:41
Speaker 1: you're describing that super Bowl team, Jonas Gray. What finished
38:47
Speaker 1: top running back on a Super Bowl team in the
38:49
Speaker 1: last ten years was mars Shawn Lynch, who finished sixth
38:55
Speaker 1: in yards. So once again and Yams and I can
39:02
Speaker 1: tell you there were three maybe four games. Well, he said,
39:06
Speaker 1: I don't want to play the fourth court. I already
39:08
Speaker 1: got a hunt of yards. I want Robert Turbin to
39:10
Speaker 1: get some money. That's what he was saying. I don't
39:13
Speaker 1: even want it. I don't even want to do it.
39:14
Speaker 1: Like he was in the vein of like Chuck Munsey man,
39:18
Speaker 1: like this is just a just a tough dude, right,
39:21
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, chared about everybody, all those things. Man,
39:24
Speaker 1: it's just I don't know what's a joy to be
39:26
Speaker 1: around beast mode. And you know, running backs have a
39:28
Speaker 1: certain attitude to all of them, all of them yams.
39:32
Speaker 1: Now that's changing because again you're seeing the position characteristics change.
39:36
Speaker 1: But most times they're walking around slow, but they will
39:41
Speaker 1: run fast and run you over. Know what I'm saying.
39:43
Speaker 1: That's usually how they are. Okay, I love this because
39:46
Speaker 1: I don't think you'll get this on any other podcast.
39:48
Speaker 1: I think position groups have different reputations of how they are.
39:52
Speaker 1: I've never thought about the reputation for a running back
39:56
Speaker 1: in general, so can you. And look, this is a
39:58
Speaker 1: complete generalization here, but yeah, throw out the castle wide
40:03
Speaker 1: net for me, yams, yams general real least speaking again,
40:06
Speaker 1: I've been we talked all podcasts. It's running backs. Eleven guys.
40:11
Speaker 1: When I get the football at six five or six
40:13
Speaker 1: behind the line of scrimmage, eleven guys are coming after me. Right,
40:16
Speaker 1: So when I'm not working, when I'm not getting hit
40:18
Speaker 1: by all of these guys, and I'm not getting scarred
40:21
Speaker 1: up and scratched. Every shower where you take after a
40:23
Speaker 1: game is like a bunch of them paper cuts all
40:27
Speaker 1: over your body, you know what I'm saying. Like when
40:29
Speaker 1: you when you just chilling in everyday life. Yeah, man,
40:32
Speaker 1: you walk as slow, You're taking your time. You observe me,
40:36
Speaker 1: You're just like, oh, it feels good not to have
40:38
Speaker 1: bodies around me. I mean honestly, and I think it's
40:41
Speaker 1: a subconscious thing. But all the guys I've been around
40:44
Speaker 1: seeing to kind of be that way hanging around Shady
40:47
Speaker 1: McCoy like he's a jitterbug as far as running the
40:50
Speaker 1: football on the field, and he talked, you know what
40:52
Speaker 1: I'm saying, got a lot of energy there, But what
40:54
Speaker 1: are you walking around hanging out? Man? Yeah, it's a
40:57
Speaker 1: little bit slow moving a getting broad strokes were speaking. Obviously,
41:00
Speaker 1: there's some there's some you know, individualistic things about it,
41:03
Speaker 1: but a broad stroke speaking, there's some general characteristics about
41:07
Speaker 1: every position group. It makes sense to me. Um, look,
41:10
Speaker 1: before we wrap things up here, I got two things
41:12
Speaker 1: for you. One a number for you. Last three Super
41:15
Speaker 1: Bowl winners, the Rams, the Bucks, the Chiefs have finished
41:18
Speaker 1: tied for and twenty three, respectively in rushing yards. So
41:23
Speaker 1: that's one. That's the fact which leads me to number two. Here,
41:27
Speaker 1: are we going to continue to talk about the running
41:30
Speaker 1: back spot being a dying breed? I'll let you put
41:34
Speaker 1: a bow on this conversation, Yes, just because I don't
41:37
Speaker 1: know if the English language has the words that we
41:39
Speaker 1: should be using. I don't want to say dying and
41:41
Speaker 1: stuff like that of running back position. But it is changing.
41:44
Speaker 1: It's evolving, Um, football, the game of football is evolving.
41:49
Speaker 1: Yeahs Earlier this year I did the World Cup final
41:53
Speaker 1: for flag football. That's the thing. You loved him saying, yeah,
41:56
Speaker 1: it was awesome, Like it was awesome, right, you know
41:59
Speaker 1: what I mean? Totally different skill sets gotta come into play.
42:01
Speaker 1: We're talking about getting that in the Olympics. So football
42:04
Speaker 1: is evolving and our tackle football version of it, and
42:08
Speaker 1: our tackle football is evolving as well as offenses continue
42:12
Speaker 1: to evolve. You're good, Yes, you're going to see the
42:15
Speaker 1: running back position change. Now. To me, there's gonna always
42:19
Speaker 1: be a room for a generational back. And if you've
42:22
Speaker 1: got a generational back who has the long speed to
42:26
Speaker 1: go a d he has hands, short arms. That's a
42:29
Speaker 1: characteristic of some running backs. Short arms because they can
42:32
Speaker 1: hold a football sip when they fall and they put
42:34
Speaker 1: that arm out to brace themselves. It's not a lot
42:36
Speaker 1: of space for the fumble to happen. That's a little
42:38
Speaker 1: technical for you guys, but it's the truth. If you
42:40
Speaker 1: get one of those guys, you gotta take them. You
42:42
Speaker 1: gotta put them in the dot behind the quarterback, and
42:44
Speaker 1: you gotta hand him to football and say come tackle him.
42:46
Speaker 1: That's just the way it is. I only feel bad
42:49
Speaker 1: for those guys because I know when they get into
42:51
Speaker 1: the National Football League, unless you have the right mentality
42:54
Speaker 1: of you know, up top up in your head. Because
42:56
Speaker 1: I talked to the Asian Peterson's in the Marshawn Lynches,
42:59
Speaker 1: your play will slip it. Just will you just hope
43:03
Speaker 1: that the right generational back of whoever that may be
43:05
Speaker 1: you the next time we see him. I think Sae
43:07
Speaker 1: Kwon Barkley is our next one. I think Tom will
43:09
Speaker 1: continue to tell that. But whoever, I think it will
43:11
Speaker 1: always be space for the generational back. Okay, if you're
43:14
Speaker 1: gonna tell our listeners, because what I've noticed from some
43:17
Speaker 1: of the d ms that we're getting is a lot
43:20
Speaker 1: of new fans, a lot of fans who maybe are
43:23
Speaker 1: are just getting exposed to the NFL. If you had
43:26
Speaker 1: to give advice and said, hey, go on YouTube and
43:29
Speaker 1: watch this one running back, the best dude I've ever
43:31
Speaker 1: seen run? Who's that guy? That's a good one, because
43:35
Speaker 1: they all got a little little different, you know what
43:38
Speaker 1: I'm saying, and all a little different, and um, I
43:42
Speaker 1: look at um Jim Brown. I think Jim Brown could
43:44
Speaker 1: have played in any error. I know when you watch
43:46
Speaker 1: the highlights of Jim Brown, you're looking like he won't
43:49
Speaker 1: playing against anybody. Oh my goodness. But I believe he's
43:53
Speaker 1: one of those guys that obviously were we lift weights
43:56
Speaker 1: and our monorn medicine whatever. If he was coming along
43:59
Speaker 1: that track, he would have been the same type of guy.
44:01
Speaker 1: I would tell young people watch Adrian Peterson, watch his
44:05
Speaker 1: desire once he gets the football. I don't I just
44:07
Speaker 1: don't know if there's been a guy wired like that,
44:09
Speaker 1: I need you to watch Beast Mode. Obviously, Um, he's
44:12
Speaker 1: still a relevant guy. Earl Campbell. Um. Just the physicality
44:16
Speaker 1: of the way that he ran the football. I don't
44:18
Speaker 1: necessarily recommend you trying to run the football like Earl Campbell,
44:22
Speaker 1: but what I'm saying is just the physicality and the
44:25
Speaker 1: confidence running towards the line of scrimmage. And my all
44:28
Speaker 1: time favorite because that's just the error I grew up
44:32
Speaker 1: in Barry Sanders. People didn't I didn't look at Barry
44:36
Speaker 1: Sanders as being this powerful guy. He was a jitterbug.
44:40
Speaker 1: He you know, you got all these highlight runs and
44:42
Speaker 1: making people miss. But the guy'sties are like thirty inch stisman.
44:46
Speaker 1: Like if you ever stood next to Barry, which I've
44:48
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to do, he's not a small Guy's short,
44:52
Speaker 1: but he's not a small guy. He ran with power
44:55
Speaker 1: at times. You watch those facts and I think you'll
44:58
Speaker 1: get a really, really, really good understanding of what a
45:00
Speaker 1: generational back when an all time running back looks like
45:03
Speaker 1: oh and for eyes from for vision, look a Frank Gore.
45:06
Speaker 1: That's not a selfish plug because I blocked for him.
45:08
Speaker 1: But I think he's had the best eyes of any
45:10
Speaker 1: running back in all the football. I'm surprised he didn't
45:13
Speaker 1: bring up that. Ma Well. I think that's part of it.
45:17
Speaker 1: And I don't want to take anything from Ny because
45:19
Speaker 1: the player as long as he played and to do
45:20
Speaker 1: what he had to do. Obviously it takes a lot.
45:23
Speaker 1: But I played with Larry Allen, Yams and Larry Allen.
45:26
Speaker 1: He drove around in a bentley. He spent there in sunflowers.
45:30
Speaker 1: He's on the floor, rolled around the bent league, he
45:34
Speaker 1: spent the dip and then when I asked him for
45:37
Speaker 1: a ride home one time, he laughed and said be careful.
45:41
Speaker 1: When I stepped in there, it crunched. Oh my god, Okay,
45:45
Speaker 1: that's Larry Allen. I watched we went up to Seattle
45:48
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six. I watched Frank Gold run
45:50
Speaker 1: for almost two hundred yards and all we did was
45:52
Speaker 1: run one play power Larry's pulling. Larry wipes out in
45:57
Speaker 1: an entire side of a defense. And this was like
46:01
Speaker 1: second to the last year of him retiring. That was
46:04
Speaker 1: Larry Allen. They had a couple other guys on that
46:07
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboy offense of Lionie Newton and some other guy.
46:11
Speaker 1: So it's hard for me knowing that that guy was
46:14
Speaker 1: right there in his prime. He used to tell me
46:17
Speaker 1: stories about, you know, some things in the street he
46:21
Speaker 1: used to do, and he was what I mean, Larry
46:24
Speaker 1: all time great. So to know that that those types
46:27
Speaker 1: of guys were blocking for image is just hard for
46:29
Speaker 1: me to give him all the love. But I don't
46:31
Speaker 1: want to take anything away from He's the all time
46:33
Speaker 1: leading rush and all of NFL history. You can't do
46:36
Speaker 1: that without being a hard worker. You can't do that
46:37
Speaker 1: without having some skill. No, I'm with you. That's why
46:40
Speaker 1: I was just kind of curious when you you didn't
46:42
Speaker 1: say his name, but it makes sense and why you
46:46
Speaker 1: decided to go down that path. I always say this
46:48
Speaker 1: at the end of these Maybe I don't always say it,
46:50
Speaker 1: but I do mean that man. Always great to work
46:51
Speaker 1: with you dude, Always have a blast. Always appreciate you
46:54
Speaker 1: guys checking us out on this podcast. You can fire
46:56
Speaker 1: off the DFS at Mike underscore ya at Real Mike, Rob.
47:01
Speaker 1: Don't send him to d M. You want respond, you
47:03
Speaker 1: could just follow Rob. I promise I will get back
47:06
Speaker 1: to you as and and we'll continue to compile a
47:09
Speaker 1: lot of these questions that you have always appreciate you
47:11
Speaker 1: guys listening once again the decline of the running back.
47:14
Speaker 1: You be the judge. Is it happening or is it not?
47:16
Speaker 1: Hopefully we explained it