Latest / Book Flood Podcast / Lucy Podmore on Advocating for Libraries (E58)
Transcript
- Tom Nixon: Welcome to the Book Flood podcast. I am your host, Tom Nixon. My guest this week is Texas high school librarian, Lucy Ibarra Podmore. She is the former chair of the Texas Association of School Librarians and a 2024 Library Journal Mover and Shaker. Welcome Lucy. Lucy Podmore: Thank you, Tom. Thanks so much for the invitation. I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Tom Nixon: I am as well. Why don't we start with your career trajectory? How did you get to here? Lucy Podmore: So 30 years ago, I can't believe it's been that long, I started out as a second grade teacher and lasted there one year. That is a job that was not cut out for me. And I moved to middle school, which I loved. ⁓ middle school students moved Houston to San Antonio ⁓ and in a middle school setting until ⁓ I ready to have my first child. And I was able to stay home with my two daughters. ⁓ for seven years when I went back to school to get my master's degree in library sciences. ⁓ so once the girls were in school, then I went back in as a librarian and again started in middle school, stayed there for about eight years or nine years, and then moved into school where I am right now. Tom Nixon: nice. Nice. What is the most challenging part of being a librarian in 2026? Lucy Podmore: Well, first of all, when I first became a librarian, the mentor that I had, she said, welcome to the best job in the school. And that hasn't changed. It absolutely is. I get to interact with so many ⁓ teachers, with all of the teachers on campus, with all of the students in various capabilities. There's no stress tied to the library in terms of students being in there ⁓ grades or things like that. we just. ⁓ get a chance to talk about them, their interests, their reading habits, what they're working on for class. it is a really fantastic job. The challenge right now is ⁓ are so many other things, ⁓ things that are happening that are taking time and attention away from needs of the library. And I feel like sometimes the library, when you discuss challenges that are happening in the library community, people are like, well, yes, but there's all of these other things that are happening. And so I think it's just ⁓ emphasizing the importance, what, you know, the library ⁓ all aspects, in the public library, in the school library, in an academic library, a lot of times they are the backstop to problems that ⁓ go unsolved unless ⁓ library is there. And I think it's ⁓ important for us to continue to talk about services that we provide other than ⁓ you know, the traditional services that everybody knows us for, which is finding great books or helping research. But there are lots of other things that librarians do. ⁓ is cut for schools, a lot of times libraries and librarian positions are some of the first ones to go because people don't see them as essential. ⁓ I think that's such a very short-sighted view. And I hear some of my colleagues. talk about their districts removing entire library staff. So they basically have a room full of books that is manned by a volunteer who great things, but certainly a trained certified librarian is the one who is making those connections for the students and for the teachers and finding resources to help that. ⁓ And I think, again, it's difficult. Tom Nixon: Mm. Lucy Podmore: vying for the attention and making sure that people recognize the importance of a library and a librarian and when those positions are eliminated or when those programs are eliminated, those have long lasting impacts. It's not just for the year, it's not just for, know, until we get our footing back. It's a long lasting issue, I think, when these programs are cut. ⁓ And so I think that's one of the big challenges that we're working with right now. I had a ⁓ term who was an administrator who told me ⁓ years said, Lucy, I'm gonna be very honest with you when I tell you this, that a lot of people, a lot of administrators will not be concerned with the library unless the library is on fire. ⁓ And I ⁓ my current that that... A couple of years ago, I said, I'm just letting you know the library is on fire. So we need to really work together. And that was a great conversation that I had with my administrator and he has been solidly by my side since that conversation happened. And so I think it's maybe raising the urgency that the cuts to libraries or librarians ⁓ is something we really, really need to be paying attention to in addition to all of the other pieces, the book banning and all of those pieces. Right now, book banning is causing the fire, I think, in a lot of people's minds. we know it goes much deeper than that. And so it's, again, ⁓ the urgency that ⁓ needs to get together ⁓ come together for support of the library and the ⁓ that we support, the students and the teachers and the community that we support. Tom Nixon: In 2024, you were named a Library Journal mover and shaker. How has that worked out? Lucy Podmore: That's been great. I was so thankful for my colleague who nominated me for that ⁓ position or that ⁓ it's really just provided a platform for me to discuss things that are happening in the broader library world, but also some of the programs that we have ⁓ started my campus. ⁓ And it's been nice. It's ⁓ been nice to share that information. What's been really great is to see how ⁓ people that I haven't met before, but people who have read an article or something ⁓ tried some of these programs in their own school. And it makes me very, very happy to know that this is just spread a little bit like a wildflower. Tom Nixon: as a librarian and a former administrator, I can tell you that I loved when anybody got an award because that's a way to do solid press for the library. Lucy Podmore: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It's a great way to, again, highlight some of the things that we do maybe beyond the traditional, what everybody knows, know, collecting books or promoting books, promoting reading, that sort of thing. But it's nice to know that, it's nice to have that platform to share some really great things that are happening in not just our library, but in libraries across, I mean, Texas. So I'll say the state of Texas, but also across the country. Tom Nixon: Tell us about your freedom walks. Lucy Podmore: Yeah, so our Freedom Walk was something this kind of came about after I was very involved in our Texas Legislature session that happened in 2023. And I was meeting with a lot of staffers. I was meeting with a lot of elected officials who really didn't have a very clear understanding of the way libraries work. had a very... public-facing view, right? Librarians ordered books and they put books in the hands for children, right? And so that's kind of all the public, the general public sees, right? And so through the discussions that we had, I recognized that there was a huge need, a huge need to educate our community on how those books make it to the shelves, right? They don't just magically appear. There's a whole process that we take into account. We look at reviews, we look at our Tom Nixon: Hmm. Lucy Podmore: district guidelines for what books are allowed and what levels and that sort of thing. And so ⁓ there just a lot of misinformation out there about ⁓ how did their jobs. And so I thought I had heard on a different, this was like an online ⁓ PD ⁓ that was not geared towards. school librarians, but it was all different librarians. And so I ended up in an academic librarian and she was just talking about marketing her library and on the college campus. And she was talking that she set up tables ⁓ outside, kind of like you see at any college campus. And they just had information about their library. And I thought, well, that's a great way to get movement, it's outside and to get Tom Nixon: Mm-hmm. Lucy Podmore: my library outside of the traditional walls, right? And so the Freedom Walk about because there was this need to educate my community. Our traditional books week was coming up and I wanted to flip that ⁓ and wanted to not focus on the band books, but I really wanted to focus on our freedoms as readers, our freedom to read and access information. ⁓ And the Freedom Walk then became five tables where was, we had volunteers and ⁓ I working one of the tables, the first table that I was working out was really just talking about ⁓ the that guarantee our freedom. So first amendment rights ⁓ that have the court cases that reaffirmed those rights for readers. ⁓ And so had a lot of really great discussion with the students ⁓ and, ⁓ know, had some really wonderful questions about at that stage, ⁓ at that ⁓ The second was, really talking about the different terms that get thrown around in band book discussion. What does a band book mean? What does a challenge mean? What is a reconsideration? Those sort of things. And so I just want our community and our students to be informed they hear these kinds of discussions happening and things going ⁓ that they have a good solid. of information so that they can make better decisions or they could, you know, express their opinions more clearly. One of the other tables is a display of the books that have been removed from different districts ⁓ outside of our own. just districts in Texas and districts in the rest of the country. And this we kind of added a different thing. We had one of those giant ⁓ dice that purchased from the store and instead of the dots on the dice, we had covers of books. ⁓ And the kids rolled the dice and I said, okay, has this been banned, challenged or removed from the shell or has it been saved, banned, challenged or saved ⁓ from the, the library? And ⁓ again, discussions when, you know, favorite books popped up, the students were like, why is this happening? Why is Pinkalicious on this list? ⁓ What going on with that? And so we had some really great discussion again about, you know, what is that reconsideration? Tom Nixon: Hmm. Lucy Podmore: policy look like in our district. That was the next table. So how does a book make it to our shelves? The for that table was collection development policy. And I was thinking in my head, like, ⁓ nobody about that. It's the most boring topic, especially to these 16-year-olds, 17-year-olds who are wandering through our table. But I it into a little shoots and ladders game. And so again, how does a ⁓ book make to our shelves? Tom Nixon: Right. Lucy Podmore: And so we talked about the definition. So where is the challenge is coming up? So there's a reconsideration policy that goes into effect when this happens. How does the committee work? Who serves on the committee? What is the committee charged with? ⁓ And once the committee makes the decision, ⁓ what after that? ⁓ Is the final decision? And so freedom walk just kind of, ⁓ it's those tables. was one last table, which is basically how How do I make my voice heard on any issue? And it was a voter registration table. And so we had some really great, again, conversations the first year that I tried it. I was nervous about people saying, well, why are you getting political with this? But I kept saying this in my, repeating to myself that I am providing information for my students, right? And that's, you know, a line that we have to make sure that we don't cross, right? I am providing information about. things that you're seeing and you're hearing that directly impact you and the resources that you have access to on our campus. And we had fantastic positive results and ⁓ comments ⁓ our students, from our parents who helped at some of the tables. ⁓ were volunteering at the tables. We had a great ⁓ with some teachers, some of our APUSH teachers, ⁓ our Advanced Placement US History students. they received extra credit for coming to the tables and they had a little ⁓ had all of ⁓ stations that they were to go to. And I just told them, said, just write ⁓ that you learned ⁓ their entire bookmark was covered. And ⁓ is extra credit. And so normally it's just a line or two that the kids might write, but they were very, very interested in it. And so I'm so glad that that helped raise awareness of what was happening. ⁓ ⁓ but also engage them enough that they continue that conversation. Tom Nixon: So, Antonio has a great event every year called Library Palooza. What's your role in that? Lucy Podmore: So Library Palooza started 17 years ago. We started planning this 17 years ago I was on the initial planning committee. I'm one of the, I think I'm one of the last two, one of my colleagues, it was her brainchild and we helped work this and get the funding and organize the first ones. Library Palooza is a teen author event. And so ⁓ in San Antonio, recognized that book tours that happened, author tours that happened for young adults, they hit Houston, they hit Austin, and they hit Dallas. And San Antonio was always ⁓ bypassed. And so we really wanted to bring, have an opportunity to bring those authors to our students. And these, you know, our focus was to find the authors maybe schools couldn't afford, right? So they had a large speaking fee or something, or they were out of the state of Texas. ⁓ So it was ⁓ financially difficult for a lot of schools to pay for airfare or pay for a hotel, pay for an honorarium, that sort of thing. So we fundraised for the first, we won a grant. My colleague ⁓ wrote a grant. won a fantastic grant that kicked us off. And next year we're celebrating our 15th year bringing this festival. And I think that's such a, that's ⁓ the longevity of that festival. I don't know ⁓ long specific festivals for teen readers have been around, but I'm so proud that this has been happening for 15 years. have students, well, former students who have come back as adults. Like I, this, ⁓ know, just cemented ⁓ love for reading. It's a really great place. We get this comment every year that ⁓ the are so happy to be surrounded by other readers, right? So this is like their ⁓ rock star moment or their, you know, NBA Finals moment kind of thing, right? Where all of the fans of one event come together this is what we have. We have ⁓ authors ⁓ year that come out and at the beginning of the year we announce those seven authors and our students ⁓ and are promoting these books. We're encouraging the students to read them. ⁓ So the authors do arrive in San Antonio, it's in February is the festival, so they've had about six or seven months. ⁓ where we're just constantly talking about these six or seven authors. And so the authors have commented that this festival, the kids can very prepared to, because they're vested in the books that they have reading with these authors. And so ⁓ a really fantastic day for readers. And we're so happy that it's just continued on. community support has still strong. Tom Nixon: Hmm. Who were some of the authors that you had this year? Lucy Podmore: Yeah, so this year we had Huda Fahmy, who is a National Book Award winner or finalist, sorry, who I can't remember. But she was with us. We had E. Lockhart with us this year. We had Chloe Gong with us ⁓ this year. We also Scott Rankin. We had Amber McBride scheduled and she unfortunately ⁓ became ill the week that she was ⁓ supposed to arrive. we had. three National Book ⁓ Finalists winners with us this year, but she couldn't make it. We'll have her back us at some point, but we had a really great day ⁓ our ⁓ We have... ⁓ I'm drawing a blank. This is not good. a blank on our last author that we had with us, but Sam Van Leer, she was with us for our lunchtime author, Samantha Van Leer, who wrote Extraterrestrial Zoo. It's such a great, middle grade ⁓ book. So this is a festival too, that's for middle and high school students. Previously we have had Neil Shusterman, we've had Tiffany Jackson, we've had so many really wonderful Jenny Hawn and Lou. We've had some really outstanding authors for our 15th we're planning really great celebrations for that. Tom Nixon: you continue to be able to fund this? Lucy Podmore: Yeah, well, we have a great community partner in Texas. Everybody, if you come to Texas and you talk to anybody who lives in San Antonio specifically, but Houston, Corpus, we have this really strange love for our beloved HUB, which is our grocery store here in the town. And they are such an amazing community partner for so many things, but ⁓ education is one of their big. pieces. Last year they partnered with the Texas Library Association to do a donation, I guess slips at the checkout and the Texas Library Association was able to raise thousands and thousands of dollars for summer reading programs for that. So they have been a sponsor every year for our festival and so we are so grateful them because without them it would have been, our to 15 years would have been a lot more difficult. ⁓ Tom Nixon: Thank you, HEB. Lucy Podmore: Yes, yes, HUB is the best. Tom Nixon: You received the Sarah Jaffarian Award. Who is Sarah Jaffarian and why did you get this award? Lucy Podmore: Yes. So the Sarah Jaffarian Award is from the ALA, the American Library Association Public Education Public Programs Office. And this is, it recognizes ⁓ excellence in humanities program. And the year that I won it was the first year that it had opened up beyond middle school. previously it a K through ⁓ eight ⁓ program. So librarians in a K through eight setting could apply. for this and the year that our program was awarded, that was the first year that it had opened up for high schools. And because I was selected as the winner and the winning program was the Freedom Walk that we had just discussed. And I after that, I was asked to be on the committee that selected the next year's winner. And I love. every second of that committee because I was able to see so many great programs just being created across this country for our ⁓ students, our public school students. It was not just public schools, it's private schools as well, ⁓ our school librarians are so creative in the way they educate ⁓ our students and so very, ⁓ honored to be included in that group. Unfortunately, with some restructuring, funding restructuring, they put a pause on the but we're hoping that will come back very, very soon because again, it's just wonderful to see. Again, kind of going back to the very first comment or discussion question that we answered, this award really helps people recognize that the libraries are so much more books alone, right? It's books. plus all of the connections that these books can make for us for our communities. so hopefully, hoping to see that award return very Tom Nixon: Recently, you were in Washington DC advocating for Texas libraries. Tell us about that. Lucy Podmore: Yeah, so it was ⁓ advocating for libraries nationwide. We were focusing on our Texas elected officials though. ⁓ ⁓ one was ⁓ library day. So ⁓ in Texas Library Association, I'm the chair of our legislative and advocacy committee. ⁓ And we were there really talking about funding for E-Rate ⁓ funding ⁓ ⁓ technology ⁓ purchases for public libraries, for all libraries, for public, for school libraries and for academic libraries. And so it was really great to walk into our representatives offices and just share with them some of the things that have been going on. ⁓ ⁓ when we're talking about so many things vying for the attention of our elected officials, of our constituents, of our communities, it was a great opportunity to really highlight how the libraries really help so many of these different programs that they might see in a silo. For example, one of them is like a career college readiness, a career college military readiness. And ⁓ are lot of programs in the library that support things like that. ⁓ so having an to talk about the programs that our libraries are creating to help new parents talk about ⁓ literacy, can they improve literacy at home and what does story time look like at home ⁓ versus is a story time lesson look like in the library and how can we help our ⁓ young or our new parents, you know, make that, make those connections for their young people. ⁓ All of these are just building blocks, right, to a stronger, ⁓ more educated community ⁓ and starts there with our libraries. So. are a key player in that. Tom Nixon: What's the response been from the Texas legislators? Lucy Podmore: Well, our who were serving in DC, they were really great. Their staffs, we met with their staffers and they were all very of libraries. And so that's a good first step. And so ⁓ to say, yes, we love libraries. Everybody does love libraries. The next step is moving them to funding, to funding the So yes, we know we are ⁓ beloved. And that still Very true. When you ask people about their library experiences, so many people have these wonderful, very heartfelt and compelling stories about how libraries have helped them. Years and years and years ago, I was listening to a radio talk show, and was a gentleman, he was an architect, and he was talking about, didn't go through that ⁓ kind traditional paths, right? ⁓ He with money for ⁓ college and. Somebody asked him, you know, well, where did you get your degree? And he said, well, I got my degree at my public library. And, you know, those kinds of things that the public library supports so many, because we have access to so many resources, right? If the funding is there and we can help build these communities and we can help build our workforces and we can help build ⁓ many pieces, but we need access and libraries are such a great equalizer to access and to resources. So our representatives were again very of the impact of libraries. And we just need to make sure that they're they they back up love of libraries with their funding. ⁓ Yes, definitely. Tom Nixon: Gotta keep pushing, gotta keep pushing. ⁓ Library folks talk a lot about the importance of representation in books, in libraries, in staffing. Why you think that is so important? Lucy Podmore: Yeah, so a couple of things. When I was a little girl, I grew up in the 70s and 80s in Pasadena, Texas, right? So a little bitty city right outside of big Houston. And I was a Nancy Drew girl. was a sweet Valley high girl. I was reading books about blonde haired, blue eyed girls that were surfing on beaches. I'm like, what is that? You know, just didn't make any sense to me. I loved Nancy Drew and her little blue convertible car, and I definitely wanted a blue convertible car when I was older. I have a blue car, not a convertible. But there were experiences, yes, that I could relate to, right? Being the new person at a school or having a crush on somebody or having, you know... arguments with friends and how do you solve those? Those things are similar, but it was not until I was a second year student at the University of Houston ⁓ I took a poetry class and it was a Hispanic poetry class and we went to ⁓ our were ⁓ to purchased from this tiny little bookstore and they said this is it was on campus and it was a bookstore called ⁓ Arte and it's a indie publishing house really. ⁓ and that's still in existence today. It's still at the University of Houston. But I remember winding down this deep, dark basement stairs, and I thought, good Lord, where am I going? What is happening here? it was this magical room full of books that ⁓ were authored by people who had names that sounded like my last name, like Ivara. And had not seen that before. ⁓ And I read one the books that had ⁓ Tom Nixon: Hmm. Lucy Podmore: was the author kind of explaining ⁓ her tías and her tíos and her, you know, the foods that they were eating were very much like the foods that we were eating at my house. You know, they were talking about their rice and their beans and their tortillas and ⁓ all the things. I, ⁓ they mixing in this poem. I remember it was mixing in Spanish and ⁓ English, is, ⁓ you my grandmother, one of my grandmothers didn't speak English and I... never learned to communicate fully in Spanish, but I understood every word she said. So she would speak to me in English, I mean in Spanish, and I would respond to her in English. And that's how we communicated. And in that poem, it was the same thing. And I thought, gosh, this is, this is, this is me. Like this, it took me until I was 20 years old to find a piece of literature that reflected my experience during. 2023 when the book bands were really, I don't want to say were, they still are, but when that issue was just coming to light and it was so front and center, we had a display of books that had been removed from other campuses, other districts near us. And one of my student journalists was asking me, Ms. Podmore: what does this mean? What happens when these books are pulled and I said, I looking at that display of books and I said, okay, this book is about ⁓ LGBTQ person. We ⁓ LGBTQ on this campus, right? So if that book is removed and I just turned the book cover over, I said, their voice is no longer there. ⁓ So book is about a girl who has survived a sexual assault. ⁓ And I that book over and I said, that voice is no longer there. That person who survived that assault can no longer have access ⁓ to ⁓ Tom Nixon: Mm. Lucy Podmore: somebody else's experience that might have mirrored hers or his. you we had ⁓ pictures of our book covers with black on the front. And I said, how many of our black students ⁓ won't hear voice if these books are removed from campuses? And so I think it's so important, not just for the kids that are represented in the books, but for the kids who don't have anybody, they don't know what the experience is of somebody who is from a different culture or different race who is being discriminated against. They don't have that experience. And so for them to gain empathy or understanding or look at a different point of view, so important, so important for our students to recognize that their world ⁓ ⁓ much bigger than their. ⁓ high school or their neighborhood or their community, right? Like there's so many different things for them to learn and explore and, ⁓ you know, exploring those through a book is the best way. Tom Nixon: What are you working on now? Lucy Podmore: Well, now, so I am planning next year, ⁓ doing our Freedom Walk what I'm calling it now, our Freedom to Read Week, but also kind of tying that in with digital literacy. And there's a really great by Tiffany Jackson called The Scammer, ⁓ and it talks about young in college who were ⁓ influenced by ⁓ Tom Nixon: Mm. Lucy Podmore: a young man who convinced a lot of them to turn away from their friends and turn away from their family and start believing his way was the only way, that sort of thing. I was ⁓ so by that book and I found another book about how to identify scams and how to identify. ⁓ scams and how to be alert for information when people are, you what are the red flags to look for when people are trying to isolate you? And I think that's really important. So I'm kind of building up those programs that. I'll go back to our freedom walk. The freedom walk started with that one ⁓ station or kind of journey through ⁓ some the issues that come with ⁓ book ⁓ But has really grown since then. ⁓ Last year we had a panel of our, one of our school board members, one of our public library directors and one of our newspaper editors or the city Antonio newspaper ⁓ columnists. we, ⁓ the kids, these were developed by the students. ⁓ What ⁓ each them, what role did each of them play in protecting access to information? ⁓ for the larger communities, right? So the school board member for the schools, the public library director for the larger San Antonio community, and then the newspaper columnist, what role did he play in maybe alerting to what is happening in libraries? And so I feel like this discussion has, it's grown the traditional band books week into ⁓ just a nice look at how, again, ⁓ libraries really are essential in protecting so many of our rights, right? So again, how do we find information? And if that information is withheld from us, where do we go? Where do we trust the information? How do we know to trust what information? And so ⁓ this new one that I'm working on, we're kind of looking at those pieces, right? So how do we trust the information that's put in front of us? And how do we verify those sorts of things? So that's a... ⁓ Tom Nixon: Mm-hmm. Lucy Podmore: thing that I'm currently, mean, I'm working on for next year, but this today this weekend, we're starting our Texas Library Association Conference. So I'm about to ⁓ be surrounded by thousand of my Texas colleagues and it's always a really great recharge ⁓ at this time year. Tom Nixon: How nice. I love going to the state conference. Lucy Podmore: Yeah, it's great. It's really fantastic. And again, I'm hoping all of our authors and presenters are able to, you know, brave those long lines at the airport that we're hearing about. it's always, again, great to see everybody and to hear about the wonderful things that are happening in our libraries. Tom Nixon: Mmm. So a question that I ask everybody on the podcast, is there a book or a series of books from your childhood that still resonates with you? Lucy Podmore: Well, yeah, we were ⁓ again kind of talking about ⁓ some of those Nancy Drew books and some of the ⁓ other, I'm sorry, I lost you. lost my ⁓ where you are. Some the Nancy Drew and those ⁓ Sweet Valley books, I really did love those, but it was that one poem, I'm just gonna say it was that one poem, and unfortunately I don't remember. ⁓ was a compilation ⁓ poems, ⁓ and think was because she was talking about, the author was talking about Elena and that. is my middle name, but it's also the name of an aunt that raised my father when he was a little boy. And having that just deep connection. And again, even something as simple as having a name that is kind of a Hispanic name or a Mexican name, I had never seen that before. And so to see her name and my name, it's like, oh, look, that's me. I will tell you that I was surrounded ⁓ books when I was a little girl. We had this little tiny public library and ⁓ in office ⁓ at ⁓ I a newspaper clipping from when the children's section of that public library opened ⁓ in ⁓ And it's me and my two sisters and we're all kind of stair steps together. My oldest sister was holding my middle sister's hand who was holding my hand. ⁓ And we kind of had this little, it was just the back of us. ⁓ Tom Nixon: Mm. Lucy Podmore: And we were going to explore that at the children's, the new children's section of that library. And we were there all the time, all the time in that library and ⁓ absolutely loved that space. I just, I have vivid recollections of my dad reading to us at night. And he's tired as an adult coming home from work and bath time was finished and he's finally, ⁓ getting his two girls to bed. I remember like laying on my bed. My sister and I shared a room and so the three of us were squished on a twin bed and my dad reading the book, but the book getting closer and closer to our face because he was falling asleep when he was holding the book. We're like, dad, wake up. just have always, ⁓ were always books or books on tape. So very old school books tape. had ⁓ one I will say this, that I remember very vividly and it was the tortoise and the hare. but it was a ⁓ Tortoise in the Hair bilingual edition. And I don't know where my dad found that and I have not been able to find that, but it was the, On Your Marks, Get Set, Go. ⁓ my dad would always, ⁓ would read the Spanish version of it and he's, An sus marcos listos, ba! And we would all, you know, scream that way. And that was a really, you know, that was another ⁓ of important book because again, I had never like, ⁓ look, there. those are the words. Like I know this story, I already know this story, but this story is now told in, you know, language that I hear when I'm with my grandmother or when my parents are talking. So lots of books, lots of great books surrounded by me, or I was surrounded by books. Tom Nixon: Wonderful memories. What are you reading now? Lucy Podmore: Well, I have just, this was actually a couple of weeks ago that I just finished this one. And I just finished a book on the way, on the drive ⁓ today. And it was April Henry's, ⁓ When Go Missing book. And I love her books. Her books are ⁓ great but they're ⁓ short chapters. They're quick to read, but I love listening to them on audio. So it ⁓ was a great ⁓ mystery book that I'll be book talking for my students for their summer reading. But I going to be ⁓ the San Antonio Book Festival, ⁓ serving as a moderator for the San Antonio Book Festival that's happening in two weeks. ⁓ this book, I just finished, it's probably gonna come up backwards, but this book is called How Books Can Save Democracy. Tiny little book, 80 pages, ⁓ about 40 minutes to read, and it is a ⁓ discussion of how ⁓ books... can bring back civil discourse that we're just missing right now. know, when people, I feel like there's a lot of people that have not ⁓ ability just be still and listen to words, ⁓ to ⁓ contemplate a that might be different from the way you think about things. Tom Nixon: Mm. Lucy Podmore: to process somebody else's point of view without them in front of you and without you maybe having to make an argument for your own case, right? And this book just talks about much we're missing that as a society, right? When people are two of view of an issue, it evolves into a horrible ⁓ fight and a match. And instead of ⁓ you know, taking step backs instead of being quiet and listening to somebody else's point of view without the outside noise, without trying to appear be whatever, knowledgeable, more on this side, more on the other side. It's a ⁓ fascinating, I wait for this discussion. ⁓ I'm really forward to talking to this author his book. ⁓ But that panel, two authors. ⁓ Tom Nixon: Mm. Lucy Podmore: And the other author is Shar Adams and she wrote a book called Black Owned and it's the history of black bookstores ⁓ the United States. Another ⁓ fascinating, fascinating read. So looking ⁓ to all of that. ⁓ Tom Nixon: Well, and in one of those oddnesses, ⁓ you mentioned April Henry. She was on the podcast this week, ⁓ talking about her forthcoming, In the Blood, which just sounds very cool, coming out in May. Lucy Podmore: Yes! Yes. Yes. Very April. Yes, I know. I'm looking forward to it. Well, I will say that I did talk to her publisher, who will be here at TLA. It's like, would you happen to have a copy of that book before it comes out so I can get my hands on one so I can talk about it with my kids for their summer reading? So I love April. She is just ⁓ powerhouse when it comes to reading. ⁓ like she's one of those quiet authors who ⁓ Tom Nixon: Mmm. Lucy Podmore: She's one who definitely, the kids always tell me, you know, I haven't finished a book and then I hand them an April Henry book and they're like, where are the other ones? And I take them to my April Henry section. Like, your spot. So she's great. She's a fantastic author. Tom Nixon: ⁓ I'll have to reach out to her and let her know that you name checked her. I wanna thank you so much for being on the podcast. For our and watchers, please remember to like, subscribe, and share. And again, Lucy, thank you so much for coming. Lucy Podmore: Thank you so much, Tom. I really enjoyed our conversation. Tom Nixon: I did as well. Take care. Lucy Podmore: Thank you.