Latest / I Choose Me with Jennie Garth / Jane Leeves Spills the Tea on “Frasier," Betty White & the Chainsaw Ingenue

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Jane Leeves Spills the Tea on “Frasier," Betty White & the Chainsaw Ingenue · I Choose Me with Jennie Garth

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garland. Okay,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: all of you hot in Cleveland and Frasier fans, I
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: am so excited to have Jane Leaves with me today.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: She is such a funny lady and she has worked
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: with some of my favorites, Betty White, Valerie Bertinelli, Kelsey Grammer,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: so many talented actors. And what incredible stories she has.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: She's here with her beautiful daughter, Isabella Coben. And together,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: they have written a memoir about Jane's 11 seasons on Frasier.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: So happy to have you both here. I love this moment,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: having mother-daughter guests here in the studio. That's great. Thank
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: you so much for joining me. Oh, it's lovely to
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: be here. I am a big fan of yours. So
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I've been very excited that you were coming in. And
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk... About this. Oh, yes. Daphne and me.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: What a great cover. First of all, I saw on
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the behind the scenes, the pictures of you making this picture.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: You had a guy under a sheet.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: It was my husband under a sheet.
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  Speaker 1: That makes me feel better.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, it was my husband. Bless his heart. And he
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: kept crouching down and I'd say, stand up. And he's like,
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  Speaker 2: I'm not hurting you. No, you're not hurting me. Stand up.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, look at those legs. You look amazing.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Well, legs are the last thing to go, aren't they?
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Not for me. Maybe if I had your ballerina background,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: it would be different. But I'm just really happy. We're
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: going to talk all things Daphne and me. But first,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I want to just kind of go back in time.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being here, Isabella, too. With your mom,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate the mother-daughter duo because I work very
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: closely with my 23, almost 24-year-old. Oh, wow.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, you do?
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She runs my fashion business with me.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's incredible.
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  Speaker 3: That's amazing.
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  Speaker 1: So she's away today working somewhere else from her computer.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: So she doesn't have to be near me. We're taking
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a break today.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Do you clash a bit?
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Sometimes. Very rarely.
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  Speaker 2: Lucky. I mean, we're mother and daughter. Yeah. There's a
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: dynamic there. You just can't.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: But usually it's a great thing. And so I really
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: appreciate this partnership because I know all about it.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: It's a Yes, you do.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: I want to hear more about your partnership with your daughter.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: That sounds so interesting.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: It really is, actually. But she doesn't like to be
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: on camera.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Not like this one. No. I can't get enough of it.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: You love being on camera. Do I? Yes, you do.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I think you do because I've seen you talk in
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  Speaker 1: front of people and you have a confidence about yourself.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: And you have to have that.
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  Speaker 2: She's a natural performer.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: You always say....
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: I'm don't look at me. Don't look at me. And
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: you're look at me.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Look at me. Yeah.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: That's great though. You need it. You need that.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: So let's start with one of my favorite sitcoms ever,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: which was hot in Cleveland. I thought maybe you were
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: thinking I was going to say Frasier.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: That is hot in Cleveland because that cast, Betty White,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Valerie Bertinelli, Wendy Malick and you.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, that was such a little gift. Um, I
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: was turning 50.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Really?
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Slightly menopausal, shall we say.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Of course.
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  Speaker 2: Valerie just turned 51. Wendy was turning 60 and Betty
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: was 80. I had these generations of women in front
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  Speaker 2: of me as an example of how my life was
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: going to progress and how well it can be done.
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  Speaker 2: So it was such a gift at that time of
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: my life. It really was. And just so great to
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: go to work and be with girlfriends just girlfriends and
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  Speaker 2: our creator was a woman so it was oh my
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: gosh yeah it was a dream just lovely we'd be
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: in the makeup room all of us and there was
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: one guy my hairdresser but he he grew up with
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  Speaker 2: sisters so he was fine with it you know but
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: it was it was a real gift.
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  Speaker 1: Well I, I, it sounds like a dream job. Like
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  Speaker 1: I want that job because that's how we learn. I
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: don't know if you know, this is about, I'm sure
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  Speaker 1: you're growing to learn this, but through our camaraderie with
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: other women, whether they're ahead of us in years or
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: behind us in years, there's so much to learn and
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  Speaker 1: there's so much to give.
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  Speaker 2: You know, and to see what can, what it can
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  Speaker 2: be like, you know, to have those positive Wendy turning 60. She,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, amazing. It was just, and they've, in the
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: next chapter of their lives. They keep calling, this is
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: my new chapter. This is my, you know, it's just
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  Speaker 2: such a remarkable experience.
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  Speaker 3: I do have to say watching you get so close
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  Speaker 3: with those ladies was really beautiful. And still the relationship,
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  Speaker 3: Valerie has been so supportive of the book, which is
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: so beautiful. And that's something to strive for. I think
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  Speaker 3: that's given me something to sort of.
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  Speaker 2: That's what female friendships should be. We should be lifting
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: each other up.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: That, that's what women do. So you were on that
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  Speaker 1: show for six seasons.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Do you have like a favorite? I mean, cause Betty White.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know.
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  Speaker 1: Legend. She, she made it a point to know every
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: crew member's name.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: She said you, that's the person you were looking to
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  Speaker 1: as an example.
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure.
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  Speaker 1: What a pro. Yeah.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, just the way she conducted herself, the gratitude
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: she showed to everyone and the gratitude she felt. for
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  Speaker 2: her own life was just so evident. She glowed, you know,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: she'd walk into the room and it was like the
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: atmosphere changed. There was this light entering the room. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: she was quite remarkable and love. My greatest joy was
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: always to get her to laugh, you know, because Betty giggling,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: she just screw up into a little ball and start laughing.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: And if you could make Betty laugh, it sort of
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: made your day, this magical little pixie laugh she had. Yeah.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: what what a gift i used to.
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  Speaker 1: Look at her in her later years as she continued
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: to work non-stop and think how does she do that
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: yeah i don't know if i'm gonna be able to
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: betty white it i know i that should be a
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: phrase betty white it you should betty white it yeah
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: she was she's so resilient you know and um she
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: talked a lot about losing her her.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Partner alan um her husband um and that, you know,
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  Speaker 2: for some people that would sort of send them spiraling inward,
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  Speaker 2: you know, but she, I think she just wanted to,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: she had a resilience and she wanted to keep his
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: memory going as well. She talked so much about him and, um,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: they met late in life and only had a few
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: years together before he passed. So, um, that was lovely,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: but also she talked a lot about her parents. Um,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: she was very, very close with her parents and, She
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: taught that they used to go into hiking in the
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Sierra Madres in the summer on donkeys. And they'd just
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: disappear into the wilderness. And that was her favorite, favorite
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  Speaker 2: thing in life. And I think that's where her love
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: of nature and animals came from.
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  Speaker 1: She's such a role model for priorities, you know.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: She loved her work. She loved her some animals.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. And she loved the environment. She loved every living thing.
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  Speaker 2: You know, if there was a spider and someone was like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: she'd go... here, let me grab it and take it outside.
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  Speaker 2: You know, she was, she had a respect for every
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  Speaker 2: living thing.
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  Speaker 1: That's so lovely.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: So along that line, because she was, you know, the
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  Speaker 1: legend on the set, it really, no matter what workplace
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  Speaker 1: you're in, the number one on the, whatever the call
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  Speaker 1: sheet or the salary, that's the person that sets the
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  Speaker 1: tone and leads the show and really creates an environment.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe it's a great one.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's a not great one. So what have you
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: learned about leadership as a woman being on the top
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  Speaker 1: of the call sheet and knowing that you are creating
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  Speaker 1: the vibe on a set?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I learned by example of the people who did
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  Speaker 2: it so well. And I actually talked to Kelsey Grammer
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  Speaker 2: about this because he was on Cheers way down the
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: call sheet for years. And then all of a sudden,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: he was number one on the call sheet. And I said,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: what was that transition like for you? How did you
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: handle that? And he said, I was taught by Ted Danson.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Ted was so magnanimous and he wanted everybody else to
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: have their time in the sun. And he knew that,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: you know, the better they were, the better he'd look.
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  Speaker 2: So I always remember that, you know, that you lead by,
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  Speaker 2: you know, we're only as good as the person we're
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: standing next to in the end as actors, you know,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: if we don't have someone great to bounce off of
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: and it's, To enjoy other people's success, you know.
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  Speaker 1: Support them.
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  Speaker 2: Support them. I love, you know, being in a scene
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  Speaker 2: with someone and just suddenly going, oh, this is so great.
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  Speaker 2: And I sort of find myself stepping out. Watching it.
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  Speaker 2: Watching it and appreciating it, you know.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: And I go, oh, no, no.
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  Speaker 2: But, oh, gosh, you did so well.
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  Speaker 3: Sorry. Sorry. Where were we? You know.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think it's like just a generosity. Being
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: a generous person is a great gift to your fellow actors.
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  Speaker 1: Yes. Do you find in your generation that that's the
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  Speaker 1: way it is with women, young women, your age?
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  Speaker 3: Oh my God.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. You don't always get a good egg,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: but when you do, I mean, I feel, and you,
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: you have such supportive friends and you have, I mean,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: you have been really lucky to work with some amazing people.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I've been really lucky to have a
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: group of girlfriends who are super, super supportive. I was
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: just telling her the other day, I had my group
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: of like 14, 15 friends all sending pictures of their
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: copy of the book, which was amazing. Yeah.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, is that what you're asking? Yeah.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, because for me, when I was younger, when
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: I was your age growing up on a set, there
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't that support amongst women in the environment that I
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: was in most of the time. And so it really
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: took me quite a long time to trust other women
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: or to allow myself to let other women lead me.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: I did learn a lot from Shannon on our show.
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  Speaker 1: She was a natural leader.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: And You know, she taught me a lot. One of
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: the people that I learned the most from, though, was
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: probably one of my first jobs. It was called A
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Brand New Life. And I was playing Barbara Eden's daughter.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, wow. That's another wow. And she just taught
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: me so much about set life and how to be
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: the person that sets the tone on the set. And
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I use all of that influence still to this day,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: you know. And who doesn't? who you would you say
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: taught you the most as a female?
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: It must've been Betty, you know, but, um, yeah, I had,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, we had so many fabulous guest stars on
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Frasier and each one, I would say we only had
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: two bad experiences and they were both young women who
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: were just sort of coming up in the business. Um,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: And John Mahoney sort of set them straight at a
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: certain point because he would not tolerate.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: You did have shitty male co-stars though. When?
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I love this.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: This is me and my daughter right here.
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  Speaker 3: When?
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about now?
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: I did? Well, we do tell a story.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: In the book about one. But that wasn't, yeah, but
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: that was a guest actor and it was so nothing.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: You know, he just, I was having a medical incident and.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: And paramedics were called and I was in the green
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: room and everybody left to give me my privacy. And
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: he's still on the phone with his agent. But that
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: was just that.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, actors.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: No, but I think, you know, I've been, on the whole,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I've been so lucky. But really, you know.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: You don't have to name names.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: No.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: But what did you learn not to do in that experience?
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: I just learned, you know, be kind. Be kind to everyone.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Be respectful, you know, to your AD, to your craft service,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: but be respectful. They're doing a job too.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: And there's that term, and I don't know if it
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: was John Mahoney who came up with it, but chainsaw ingenue.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: I've been warned.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: You don't want to be that girl. You don't want
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: to be a chainsaw ingenue. What is a chainsaw ingenue?
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: You know, they're just hungry for it and they just
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: do anything, a tread on anyone to get there. That's
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: a good term.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not supporting anyone.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Not supporting anyone but themselves, yes. But, you know, it's
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: funny because the society, and I'm going to say you
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: love the real housewife shows.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: We've been talking a lot about housewives today.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Because she loves it. And I just think. I don't
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: have the capacity. It pits women against each other.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, you tell us, did the show start as
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: women against women? And that was the whole dynamic.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Is it still that way?
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: But we were talking about it earlier because, I mean,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: we were saying, you know, that their values are so
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: strange and they're all about like wealth and who has
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: more and who and we were comparing it to.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: It's a status and class and money. We were comparing
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: it to sort of Jane Austen. Like that thing has
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: always been around.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: It's just like reality TV now.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Reality TV is a Jane Austen novel. I don't know
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: how you can do that.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's against the law for you to
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: compare those two.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: But you did.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I'm a Real Housewives scholar.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yes. That takes a lot of time. But, you know,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: why would they set something up to make women look
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: bad and fight each other? It's beyond me, you know,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: because support is... For each other. I mean, I just,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know how they do it. I don't know.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I don't enjoy watching it. I mean, I've lived it.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I've had my moments of that in my real life.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Just, you know, growing up in the industry and that competition.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Have you seen that change, though, a bit over the years?
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Well, for me personally, yes, profoundly.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: And I think it was an inside job. You know,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Oh, right.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I think I was very insecure. Of course, I was
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: very insecure and, you know, not having. You could be
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: fired tomorrow and replaced, you know, and just growing up
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: in that world of like, I want to be the
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: one getting the attention, you know. And I was an
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: equal player in that game because I was fresh off the,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I came here so green and I got
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: the show with Barbara Eden and another thing and then 90210.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: And so I really didn't know what I was biting
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: off there.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: It's like being shot out of a cannon all of
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: a sudden. Did you feel that way? You were very young.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I was 16. Wow.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: But that's so amazing that you can have that accountability. Like, no,
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: I was part of the problem. I think that takes
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: a lot of people a long time. I know, like,
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: for me, I had to go through a lot. I'm
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: only 25, but I had to go through a lot
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: to realize, like, I don't stick around in my female
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: friendships because I can't handle my own insecurities.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: a lot of the time it's nothing to do with
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: the other person. It's a projection.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: It really is.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: But like even like people, you know, in your social
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: circles who are still not totally getting it, it's hard.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: That introspection is one of the hardest things I think
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: to do.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: But I think when you have children, that priority changes
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: and it sort of opens your mind a bit more
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: and you want to be an example to them and
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: you want your relationships to to be an example to
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: them as well. You know, what you are willing to
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: tolerate and what you're not willing to tolerate.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: I will say she was always like the no drama
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: parent or the, like, if I'm having a problem with
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: a kid at school, she's like, you don't know what
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: they have going on at home. Just be nice. Be
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: the girl who wants to, but it's true.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: It's true. I mean, you, you were always like.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: No, when you see somebody acting in a sort of
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: aggressive or, um, you know, not nice way, you know,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: that that's coming from somewhere, especially someone so young, you know, it's, it's,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: it's a, there, there's a situation there that they're having
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: to deal with, but that's admirable that you grew up.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, that must've been so tough to deal with
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: all of that. And the, uh, the pressure on you
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: is at that young age.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: It was a lot. Yeah.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: And I think I just learned to handle everything, like
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: take it all, all the pressure and, come out looking
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: good and giving people what they wanted and, you know,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: hoping for the best. But it's just, you know, I'm
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: 54 now and it did take me a long time
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: and a lot of really deep introspective work to see like,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: it's not, my relationships not working is not their fault.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: My friendships or, you know, experiences with other women in
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the industry when I was younger, that wasn't their fault.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: That was.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Me. And if I had approached it differently or if
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I had handled it differently, the whole thing would have
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: gone in a different direction. Who knows what it would
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: have been. But I think it's so important. I talk
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: about that a lot, about stop pointing the finger and
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: start pulling the thumb. That's great. Yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I think I was lucky because when my success happened,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: I was in my early thirties. I don't know.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Why, but I thought you were much younger when you
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: burst into the scene.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: I was early thirties and And also I had other
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: people around me who were going through exactly the same thing,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: you know. They were in their 30s and it was,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: the show was a hit like immediately.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Frasier.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Never, like that was rare.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very rare. But it just shot out of the
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: gate was this big hit all of a sudden. And
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: we're like, and I remember Perry coming into our green
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: room and saying, you guys, we're number one. Can you
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: believe it? And David and I and John were like, no, no. No,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: we can't. But I was so lucky to have those people.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: They're such grounded, you know, and if anyone did get
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: out of hand, John Mahoney would be there, you know, like,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: pull it together, mister, you know.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: You need that person.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: You do. Because egos, you know, they play. They do.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: They can come into it, yeah. But, you know, you
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: didn't want to upset John ever, you know. And the
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: chainsaw ingenues who did upset him by being rude to R.A.D.,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: They were corrected.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I can imagine.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I've been there.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: You tell so many incredible stories about your time specifically
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: on Frasier and much more. So I want to kind
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: of get into this. First of all, I want to
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: know how you came to work on this together. Was
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: this something that you had been writing or thinking about writing?
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, never. Never wanted to, it never occurred to me
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: to ever want to write a book. In fact, it
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: was frightening to me to think, would you, and some
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: people you say, would you ever do an autobiography? No way, never.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: She was approached.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: I'm just, I'm just not.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: She's not that kind of person.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: I'm just.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, you don't want to talk about yourself.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: She hates it.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: And I, and I think that that might be what
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: makes her kind of interesting. a little mysterious. Or boring.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Or boring.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: You see it as boring. She's saying it's mysterious.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: So when they approached her and I'd heard that there
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: was interest, I was so excited for her. And I've
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: been writing for a while. I dropped out of high
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: school when I was 15 or 16. Hey, me too.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Got that GED though. Yes, of course.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Very important. Very important. So I did that to start
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: doing writing courses. I would do night school at UCLA.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: So this has been a big passion for me for
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: a long time. And this sort of felt like a
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: good opportunity for us to work together, which we've.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Been wanting to do.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: So someone came to me and asked me to do it.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: And then I said, well, I'm not a writer. And
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: they said, don't worry, we'll get someone to help you.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, no.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: That's hard.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: It's hard. No, I don't want that. And my lovely
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: daughter here said, mom, please do it. And I'll help you.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I'll help you. And I, that was an offer I
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: couldn't turn down, you know, to work with her, first
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: of all. But gosh, yeah. And And we started having
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: conversations about it because I was like, I want it
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: to be authentic. I want it to be my voice.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: got to help me find that. I want it to
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: have the character. Oh, it's your voice.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: It has an English accent when I'm reading it.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Okay. I'm so glad. I love that you say that
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: because I was really excited for that opportunity to get
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: to write in someone else's voice. Because when I'm writing,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: it's always like me, me, me, me, me, me, me.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: So to write in her voice with her humor that
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: I've grown up with and really get super specific with
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: all of her little Britishisms was so fun. And then
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: I got to do the foreword. I wrote that at
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: the very end. end of writing the book and it
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: was like okay good like I get to be me
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: again because I had spent so much time in her head.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: And it was such an interesting process as well because
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: well the first thing she did was sat me down
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: and said right I want to hear about your life
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: before fresh I'm like they're not interested in that darling
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: they don't.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Want to hear anything about that I do.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Okay I didn't know that and so she sort of
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: grilled me on my early years and the path towards
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: it and um that was extraordinary But finding the voice
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: for it, I just said to her, it needs to
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: be so specific. It needs to have this certain– you
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: need to know who is talking to you. You need
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: to get to know that person. And she started writing
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: that first chapter, and I was like, oh, my God. Oh,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: my goodness. This is me. I mean, it includes some
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: of the things I said in there. But she just
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: found the voice so easily, and then we were off,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: you know. And I would– I wrote– everything longhand, um, on,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I've got like legal pads for days. And then my
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: poor husband would have to, um, transcribe it all and
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: send it to my daughter.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: She's really the ghostwriter yeah he's really.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: He would sit there on the toilet going through my
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: stuff and I'd shout at him no that's a mistake
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: that's not that word it's this way um.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I love it that you had I mean what uh
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: yeah what a gift my husband had nothing to do
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: with writing my book oh really yeah he was like.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: How's it going how's it going good But I'm technologically,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm really not.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: She's not good with the computer. But that voice was,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you can tell, but she's a
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: bit of a rambler.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: You're a storyteller.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: She's a storyteller.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: You're a storyteller. It had to be kind of rambly
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: and self-deprecating and a little dirty.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Sometimes the Englishisms, I'm reading that and I'm like, I
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: don't know what the hell that is, but I'm going
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: to go with it.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: It's probably just something that. It's a thing that I say, yeah.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: And it's so charming. Well.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: You say that now. Yeah. So that, but just the,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: she'd have certain insights into things as well. I included
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: this story. I did a music video with Elton John
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: when I first moved to the States and he threw
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: us a party afterwards at the dome and he sort
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: of grabbed a hold of me and pulled me into
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: a booth. And the two of us sat there sharing
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: stories all night and, ah, it was just so, I mean, yeah,
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: it was Elton John, but it was just so heaven
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: for me because it was an English person. And the
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: editors were like, why is this story in here? You
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: need to get rid of that. And Isabella was like, no, no,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you why it's in there. Leave it with me.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: And she came back with one of the most beautiful
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: adjustments to the story at the end where you say,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: I was just wanted to curl up. We wanted to
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: curl up in each other's. Englishness. We were both immigrants
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: and we were both just clinging to home with each other.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: And that's really what it was. It was, he was
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: my brother. He was my dad. He had the same
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: sense of humor. He was my uncle, you know, and
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I do remember that feeling. And she, she instinctively knew
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: that's why I, that sticks in my mind. I mean, aside,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: as I say, aside from the fact it was Elton John,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: but you know.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: But I know her to be a very homesick, person.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's at the core of who she is.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: She moved away from home to do something that she
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: loves and is so lucky to get to do, but
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: it's always going to be there. And I feel it
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: when I'm away. We live across the country from each other,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: so I feel it. And I think that passage was
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: a little It was like we started to pick away
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: at it and all of a sudden it just bloomed
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: into this thing that I felt like was such an
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: accurate and beautiful portrait of who you are as an
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: English woman in America.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, you nailed it. And I love, again, it's
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: this mother-daughter connection that nobody can really understand except the
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: two of you. And you speak the same language. You
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: have the same DNA.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: You push each other's buttons. You push each other's buttons.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: But I turn to my daughter constantly now. Maybe a
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: little too much, honestly, because I just trust her implicitly.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: And she's so passionate about building me up, helping me
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: get to the next goal. And it just means I
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: literally am every day like, please don't let it end.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: But I also want her to go do whatever it
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: is that's her passion. Hopefully whatever we're doing now is
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: teaching her.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: And will lead her down a path.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And she will cherish that forever.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: But don't you find like now, because when they're kids,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: you can't be their friend. You just have to parent.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: And don't you find now that, oh, I've got a
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: new best friend.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I love it, though, because when you're close with one
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: of your, you know, grown women daughters. They see you
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: as your best friend, your rich best friend.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, she's going to start using that.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I'm your rich best friend. You know you're going to
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: get that Starbucks.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: You know you're going to get that lunch.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: You know, like you get whatever you want when you're
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: hanging out with your mom. Especially when we feel like
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have you with me. What do
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: you want?
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Anything you want, darling.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Come with mommy. Yes. We love our little trips to
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: New York. Yes.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Is that where you live?
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: That's where I live. She comes to visit me and
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: we have, I stay in her hotel. My dog stays
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: in her hotel.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I have a daughter that lives in New York too.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: You do?
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: I should introduce you too.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: That would be lovely.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: She sleeps in my bed whenever I go to New
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: York too. What a beautiful collaboration. Jane Leaves and Isabella
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Coben's wonderful behind the scenes memoir, Daphne and Me, is
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: available everywhere. And for an extra treat, Jane reads the audiobook.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: The rest of our conversation comes soon. Until then, go
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: call your mom. Thank you for joining us.