Latest / White Fox Talking / E69: Woolly Therapists: How Grace Olson's Sheep Are Teaching Children Mental Resilience

Transcript

E69: Woolly Therapists: How Grace Olson's Sheep Are Teaching Children Mental Resilience · White Fox Talking

0:02
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talking Podcast.
0:04
Speaker 1: I'm Mark Charlie-Valentine and at the side of me, as per usual, seb.
0:09
Speaker 1: Hello Charlie.
0:10
Speaker 1: Hello Seb, how are you?
0:11
Speaker 1: I'm very well.
0:12
Speaker 1: Second one today.
0:13
Speaker 1: Second one today, but we're not fatigued, we're enthusiastic, absolutely yeah.
0:17
Speaker 1: So there's not a lot to tell since last time is there?
0:19
Speaker 1: It's only an hour and a half.
0:21
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, my legs feel slightly better because it's now two weeks later, isn't it?
0:25
Speaker 1: Since last time I asked me out after the marathon, you never showed your medal.
0:29
Speaker 1: I never did show my medal.
0:30
Speaker 1: I've put it in my bag now.
0:31
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, it looks a little bit too much like a General Fix-It badge and we're best keeping that buried out there.
0:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can edit that out if you want, seb.
0:41
Speaker 1: You all right?
0:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had to grow up with some of this, you didn't?
0:46
Speaker 1: You went round here.
0:47
Speaker 2: You're a baby, aren't you Compared?
0:49
Speaker 1: to me.
0:50
Speaker 2: Compared to me as well.
0:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, reasonably.
0:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh well, I mean I have sort of dragged you up since you came to late.
0:56
Speaker 1: Anyway, do you want to know who's in tonight?
0:59
Speaker 1: You should, you should I do.
1:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, in fact, I'm going to let you introduce.
1:02
Speaker 1: Seen as Well, it's the second time.
1:04
Speaker 1: It is From episode 14.
1:06
Speaker 1: Wow, is that?
1:07
Speaker 3: from memory.
1:08
Speaker 3: No, I had to look, I had to look, but anyway.
1:11
Speaker 3: So in the studio today is Grace Olsen.
1:14
Speaker 1: The White Fox Talking podcast is sponsored by Energy Impact.
1:19
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello Grace.
1:20
Speaker 3: Hi Welcome.
1:21
Speaker 1: How are you?
1:22
Speaker 2: I am really really well, Thank you.
1:24
Speaker 1: It's good to see you again.
1:25
Speaker 2: And you.
1:26
Speaker 1: Thank you for washing your hair, for coming in.
1:28
Speaker 2: You're very welcome.
1:29
Speaker 1: Well, it did have cud in it so I thought I ought to wash it.
1:31
Speaker 1: So, grace, you joined us back in episode 14.
1:35
Speaker 1: That was ages ago, yeah, when you spoke about the yard Gosh, yes.
1:40
Speaker 1: So would you like to give another like a reintroduction of yourself, and we can have a little bit of that where things have moved on, and we'll get right into the reason why you're here, this time.
1:52
Speaker 2: So life has changed a lot since the Yard.
1:55
Speaker 2: I've now written a second memoir novel, the Farm, my Journey Deepens, and that covers how I suffered from being bullied and suicidal tendencies and how I got free of all of that with the help of a feral pony who taught me boundaries.
2:15
Speaker 2: And then since then I got some sheep and they are amazing little therapists.
2:20
Speaker 2: Because I do therapy work with my animals, the sheep accidentally decided they were going to become therapists too, and because of the sheep I then got picked up by the Yorkshire vet.
2:33
Speaker 2: So I've been on the Yorkshire vet quite a few times with my therapy sheep, which has been amazing fun.
2:39
Speaker 2: And so I thought well, I'm on the Yorkshire vet, I might as well write some children's books about my sheep.
2:42
Speaker 2: So I've written some books about my sheep, and then I might as well write some children's books about my sheep.
2:44
Speaker 2: So I've written some books about my sheep and then I realised as I was writing the stories that they have such a deep meaning that their purpose is an extension of my therapy work but these are yeah, these are like I say, the other books were more adults are just yes so the other books, although there's no swearing and there's no sex or violence, so actually young people are very welcome to read them.
3:12
Speaker 2: But yeah, they're aimed at adults because they've got deep emotional themes and the sheepy books are children's books but bizarrely they are very well loved by adults too.
3:20
Speaker 1: Right, and we'll look into that.
3:21
Speaker 1: So you said that the sheep have been on Yorkshire Vet, and that was.
3:25
Speaker 1: Were you aiming to write these books as sort of therapeutic or educational books or just as children's books?
3:33
Speaker 2: Well, at first, I have to be honest I first thought, wow, I'm going to be on the television.
3:37
Speaker 2: Why don't I write a children's book?
3:39
Speaker 2: That was the initial thought.
3:41
Speaker 2: I can't lie.
3:42
Speaker 2: But as I actually sat down and started writing, what came out was so surprisingly emotional and meaningful.
3:50
Speaker 2: When I write, it comes from somewhere else.
3:54
Speaker 2: I'm literally just a channel.
3:55
Speaker 2: So it was surprising and it just became a really beautiful story.
4:01
Speaker 2: That's all about love and healing.
4:04
Speaker 3: So each book is kind of directed at one of your sheep.
4:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're all about so about their character, yes, their little life journey.
4:12
Speaker 2: So really it's their memoir.
4:14
Speaker 1: Shall we go through that?
4:15
Speaker 1: Are there different subjects each time?
4:17
Speaker 2: Yes each book has a different theme.
4:21
Speaker 1: So shall we start with Merlin.
4:23
Speaker 3: First of all, how many sheep do you have in real life?
4:25
Speaker 1: I've got six sheep and they're all lovely, wonderful, cuddly, gorgeous animals there's only three bucks here oh yeah so yeah, just before we start talking about how quickly have you gained them three, the six sheep, because how many did you have before?
4:40
Speaker 1: Was it two?
4:41
Speaker 2: started out with two and then, sadly, one of them died within like two weeks of him arriving, but he'd he'd been born with disabilities.
4:49
Speaker 2: So then you can't have one sheep it's actually against the law.
4:52
Speaker 2: So I ended up with two more, and then they're just quite collectible.
4:56
Speaker 2: Just people offer me sheep are they rescue sheep yes, so they would have ended up as people's Sunday dinners.
5:05
Speaker 1: You know my thoughts on that.
5:06
Speaker 1: We're not getting to that.
5:08
Speaker 1: So shall we have a look at Merlin?
5:11
Speaker 2: Yes, merlin's, very special.
5:13
Speaker 1: Merlin's very special, and it's the first one in the series, is it?
5:15
Speaker 2: It is Merlin finds his magic.
5:18
Speaker 1: Merlin finds his magic Right.
5:20
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I can't ask questions and read at the same time.
5:22
Speaker 1: So can you tell us about Merlin?
5:24
Speaker 2: So Merlin's story is all about how he was separated from the flock and his mummy had told him that he was magic, so he believes he should find out what his magic does and maybe that'll help him get back to his mother.
5:37
Speaker 2: He ends up on another farm with a little girl that can hear what animals speak and some very wise horses, and he then discovers that real magic is being loving and kind to other people, and he discovers true happiness by becoming a therapy sheep.
5:55
Speaker 1: And that's actually what happened with Merlin he just became a therapy sheep and completely blossomed into this wonderful, incredible being and is that aligned with your own story yeah, I suppose it is yes and definitely so would you say, since you started doing therapies and therapies with the sheep, that you've that, that yeah, that you you're getting something from that massively yeah yeah, I'm at my absolute happiest when I'm helping somebody else.
6:23
Speaker 2: There is nothing more fulfilling than helping somebody.
6:26
Speaker 2: It's magical.
6:28
Speaker 2: You know, you can look outside in the world and think I need that to make me happy, or I need that, or if I was with that person I'd be happy.
6:34
Speaker 2: But actually when you get your ego out of the way and you become a vessel for true spirit to pour through you to assist somebody that's struggling, that's when your heart explodes and, kaboom, your happiness is there.
6:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a big thing about getting rid of your, getting your own ego out of the way, so that you can actually practice self-care anyway.
6:56
Speaker 2: Yes, the ego is a real pain in the arse.
6:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the therapy would be a self-care for yourself.
7:01
Speaker 2: Yes, it is.
7:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose.
7:03
Speaker 1: Self-care for yourself.
7:04
Speaker 1: Yes, it is.
7:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose it's like what we're doing now.
7:05
Speaker 3: Yeah we are.
7:06
Speaker 1: We don't do it for the fun, do we let's first?
7:08
Speaker 1: No, so these are all out and available now.
7:11
Speaker 1: They are.
7:12
Speaker 3: So, apart from writing them for coming onto TV, why are they out there?
7:19
Speaker 2: So my purpose with these books I've realised is that they have a very big purpose in life.
7:27
Speaker 2: I want them to help young children to learn how to use their minds so that they're not the victim of depression when they're teenagers, because there's a higher volume of teenagers taking their own lives these days.
7:39
Speaker 2: My sister is a paediatrician, and so she tells me about how, when she first qualified, she was dealing with maybe two suicides a year.
7:47
Speaker 2: She's now dealing with two to three a month, which is a really big increase.
7:53
Speaker 2: So obviously there's a lot that life has changed.
7:56
Speaker 2: We've got social media, whereas when I was young in the seventies and eighties, there was none of that.
8:01
Speaker 2: But I was still really sensitive and I was the victim of bullying.
8:05
Speaker 2: And if I'd had social media on top of that, well, I would definitely be dead.
8:11
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have been able to cope with it because I wasn't taught how to be in control of the sort of thoughts that I was having.
8:16
Speaker 2: So these books that I've written each one has a positive message and it can show children how they can become the masters of their minds, learn how to think in a positive way and make their lives happy, so that hopefully, when the teenagers, they'll be more resilient and less likely to feel utterly horrendous we had mike palmer in, didn't we?
8:38
Speaker 1: a long, quite a long time ago?
8:39
Speaker 1: I don't know if we've mentioned on the last, on the last one, but mike palmer from three dads walking, three dads walking, and he was saying I think they're like the figures I don't know if we've mentioned it on the last one, but Mike Palmer from Three Dads Walking, and he was saying the figures that Papyrus had come up with were like 200-a-year teenagers taking their own lives.
8:51
Speaker 1: And we mentioned on that, didn't we?
8:53
Speaker 1: If somebody walked into a school and shot them all, then there'd be an absolute outrage.
9:01
Speaker 1: But because they're taking their own lives individually or in little clusters, which is what happened in, was it Pitch no.
9:07
Speaker 1: Then you know it sort of goes unnoticed.
9:10
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean big up to what Three Dads Walking are doing, and Papyrus and yourself for highlighting this, and if the information can get out there before you know and I think you're totally right with you know what young people growing up with it's hard.
9:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, sort of.
9:26
Speaker 1: I mean issues that we talk about quite a lot on the podcast are this you know, people growing up when they are a guide virgin, so feeling slightly different or feeling a lot different than other people, so maybe bullied.
9:38
Speaker 1: And then also with the pressure put on young people through the pressure put on the family situation where two parents now when I was a kid, my mum didn't work because she was looking after the kids.
9:48
Speaker 1: So that's the coming home.
9:50
Speaker 1: Coming home, you don't know what they're.
9:53
Speaker 1: You know coming home to an empty house.
9:55
Speaker 1: You don't know what their influences are on social media.
9:57
Speaker 2: No, it's terrible.
9:59
Speaker 1: So if I can be picking books up and be inspired by that, that's what I hope.
10:03
Speaker 2: If I can at least save one life, then I have succeeded.
10:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
10:09
Speaker 1: I think that's why we started this.
10:10
Speaker 1: It's an excerpt from the original, so Merlin's made you think it's slightly based on your work, but it's based more on Merlin.
10:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
10:18
Speaker 2: It's his little journey of how he was from one particular farm and ended up being removed from the flock because he had ear infections.
10:26
Speaker 2: That's how it starts in the story there.
10:29
Speaker 1: Yeah.
10:29
Speaker 2: And then he ends up with me at my farm and becomes a therapist.
10:33
Speaker 2: So in the story, merlin becomes a little therapy sheep and that is exactly what he did.
10:38
Speaker 2: He is a brilliant therapist.
10:40
Speaker 1: I was going to say does Merlin enjoy therapy?
10:42
Speaker 1: Yes, or do you give him therapy?
10:44
Speaker 2: Because?
10:44
Speaker 2: So when he's just with me and my friends, he can be, you know, like a naughty dog, sort of jump up at you, bash you, be a bit cheeky, but when somebody's there, that's really in a bad way.
10:55
Speaker 2: Emotionally he is completely different and it's incredible to see.
10:58
Speaker 2: You've got to see it to believe it.
11:01
Speaker 2: He'll walk up to the person and he'll stand and he'll look at them he's properly reading them and then he'll stand closer, let them cuddle him and it lifts them.
11:10
Speaker 2: So, for example, I'm currently helping a lady who she's a single mum, her only son hanged himself.
11:17
Speaker 2: She found him and she cut him down.
11:19
Speaker 2: So that is the backstory.
11:21
Speaker 2: Can you even imagine the hideousness?
11:23
Speaker 2: So she came to me because my friend told her about me.
11:29
Speaker 2: So my friend brought her and it was, you know, when.
11:31
Speaker 2: It was really hideous snowy weather and it was thick snow for like well over a week.
11:35
Speaker 2: So I was having to put hay out to feed the animals.
11:38
Speaker 2: Merlin left his hay, which is for him phenomenal, and he stood with her for an hour in the snow and she laughed.
11:46
Speaker 2: Just by being with a sheep made her laugh, and what better therapy is that laughing?
11:52
Speaker 2: But there is also a physiological thing that actually happens, if you want the science behind it.
11:57
Speaker 2: So sheep, they're herbivores and they are extremely adaptable, so they are often.
12:03
Speaker 2: You know, their parasympathetic nervous system is what's active.
12:07
Speaker 2: Every mammal has mirror neurons in their brain, so when you're with a sheep and they're relaxed, our mirror neurons put us into a relaxed state, which then helps your body to start to heal.
12:19
Speaker 2: So it is actually a thing that is really happening.
12:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, you see, when I try and talk about that, people go oh, you've gone all hippie.
12:30
Speaker 2: Took a bit of science out of me.
12:31
Speaker 1: Exactly, this is the thing, isn't it?
12:33
Speaker 1: You're sympathetic, sympathetic, you fight or fly, and then I suppose sheep are naturally sociable animals with themselves.
12:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, very, they live in a community.
12:44
Speaker 1: Yeah.
12:44
Speaker 1: So, and then get the thing about energies, and I suppose that's your positive energy, negative energy.
12:49
Speaker 1: If it's giving you a positive energy, as in a, like you say, almost like a friendship, yes, yeah, then it's, that energy is balancing in it.
12:57
Speaker 2: Yes, and just the fact that you've got this great, big, woolly creature that normally, normally you can't touch sheep.
13:03
Speaker 2: You know they're in the distance, they run away.
13:05
Speaker 2: Does a sheep come up to you?
13:07
Speaker 2: So the whole unusualness of being with the sheep is part of it as well.
13:11
Speaker 2: And just the depth of the wool, the fresh smell so it ignites all your senses as well.
13:18
Speaker 2: The touch, the smell, hugging them.
13:21
Speaker 2: They're so big, they're massive, they're not little.
13:24
Speaker 2: Well, mine are giants.
13:25
Speaker 2: What about Galahad?
13:27
Speaker 1: Galahad finds his voice.
13:29
Speaker 1: That's the book.
13:30
Speaker 2: Galahad finds his voice.
13:32
Speaker 1: What's the backstory with Galahad?
13:34
Speaker 2: Galahad is a very beautiful sheep.
13:37
Speaker 2: He's a clunforest.
13:38
Speaker 2: For anybody listening what?
13:39
Speaker 2: Clunforest From Wales?
13:42
Speaker 2: Oh, really, quite an unusual breed and he's an unusual sheep.
13:50
Speaker 2: He's really different to all the others.
13:51
Speaker 2: He's very, very sensitive.
13:52
Speaker 2: He he looks for connection and he's very.
13:55
Speaker 2: He needs to be loved a lot and he loves it.
13:58
Speaker 2: When I sing he goes into a trance.
14:00
Speaker 2: He loves singing so long as the song is all about how wonderful he is.
14:03
Speaker 2: Is that?
14:04
Speaker 1: is that because he's from wales?
14:05
Speaker 2: yeah, but he loves singing and and he's just so.
14:09
Speaker 2: It made me think about some of my friends have got children who are.
14:12
Speaker 2: They don't feel that they can fit in with the rest of the class because they are the boys the more sensitive.
14:19
Speaker 2: They don't want to play rough games and galahad is like that.
14:23
Speaker 2: So, like all the sheep, they like to clonk each other on the head and bash each other around.
14:26
Speaker 2: But Galahad, he seems to me that he's like playing a lute and writing French poetry.
14:31
Speaker 2: So the book is all about how he doesn't want to play rough games and how at first he tries.
14:37
Speaker 2: He tries to fit in and he feels uncomfortable because he's different.
14:41
Speaker 2: And then he gains in strength and realises actually, my difference is my power and I'm a really valid person and I've got this gift to give to the world.
14:52
Speaker 2: And he then has the confidence to say to all the other sheep this is me and so.
14:58
Speaker 2: And by being confident in yourself, it then helps other people to really appreciate you as a different person, so you can still be part of a crowd but be unique within that crowd I guess that's what young kids really go through.
15:11
Speaker 3: They feel extremely insecure sometimes and don't know who they are.
15:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then they're just trying to fit in and then they do things which which they don't actually want to do and which makes them not be themselves.
15:22
Speaker 3: Yes, but then, when they gain the confidence in being themselves, they actually become a really cool person.
15:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, and everybody wants to hang out with them.
15:31
Speaker 2: When somebody has the strength to be themselves, that helps other people to feel confident to be themselves too.
15:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose the system's not set up for I'm not going on a rant Seb Seb's going to delete this if I go on a rant again.
15:44
Speaker 1: The system's not really set up for I'm not going on a rent sub seb's going to delete this if I go on a run again.
15:48
Speaker 1: The system is not really set up for individuality, individuality, no, is it because really not in schools.
15:51
Speaker 2: It's just wanting to get on with it and fit in, get on, get the grades yeah, get it out yeah, and I suppose you know things like sports.
15:59
Speaker 1: not everyone is, you know, sporty, not everyone's academic.
16:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:04
Speaker 1: But then the pressure to try to fit into that generic sort of mould, yes.
16:11
Speaker 2: It can cause severe depression.
16:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, is that something from personal experience?
16:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was always different.
16:17
Speaker 2: I was always the weirdo.
16:19
Speaker 1: In what way?
16:21
Speaker 2: Well, I suppose because I've always been really interested in spirituality, for example, and whereas my friends were very conventional, so all the stuff that came out of my mouth was weird to them, they all learned to love me eventually.
16:35
Speaker 2: But you know, at first I did feel like I stuck out like a sore thumb and I tried to fit in and I was always like one of the lads as well and like all my friends were there like putting makeup, makeup on and little dresses and it just wasn't for me.
16:49
Speaker 2: And then eventually I was able to be me.
16:52
Speaker 2: But I was really bullied at school and felt horrendous and Took an overdose at age 14 and miraculously I'm not dead.
17:02
Speaker 1: And was that so?
17:03
Speaker 1: Taking the overdose was that?
17:05
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it was a definite attempt.
17:09
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it was at first.
17:10
Speaker 2: And then I lay down to die and then this voice and it was a male voice in my body said you need to call the neighbour.
17:19
Speaker 2: And I thought, shit, actually, yes.
17:20
Speaker 2: So, thank God, this old, poor old woman.
17:21
Speaker 2: It was across the neighbour and I thought, shit, actually, yes.
17:22
Speaker 2: So, thank God, this old, poor old woman.
17:23
Speaker 2: It was across the road.
17:25
Speaker 2: She was amazing.
17:26
Speaker 2: She called an ambulance and everything and had to have my stomach pumped.
17:29
Speaker 2: That was a really hideous experience.
17:31
Speaker 2: So, yes, I changed my mind and, thank God, I didn't die.
17:36
Speaker 2: However I was.
17:37
Speaker 2: Then I had to see a psychiatrist, of course, and I was put on antidepressants and a couple of years later, I took an overdose at night.
17:45
Speaker 2: I took a whole bottle of antidepressants.
17:47
Speaker 2: How I'm not dead, I don't know, because I woke up completely fine.
17:51
Speaker 1: Right, so was it antidepressants the both times.
17:55
Speaker 2: No, the first time it was painkillers.
17:57
Speaker 1: Okay, what painkillers.
17:59
Speaker 2: I can't remember, I don't know Just whatever was there.
18:02
Speaker 1: I'm just because the amount of people that take their own lives with paracetamol oh that's a hideous one.
18:06
Speaker 2: It's ridiculous.
18:07
Speaker 1: And it's yeah, apparently it's yeah.
18:10
Speaker 2: It's irreversible liver damage.
18:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it might not be instant.
18:13
Speaker 2: No, it's a long, painful, nasty, disgusting death.
18:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how long they have to get it.
18:18
Speaker 1: What's the window of getting it out of your system by a stone's throw?
18:22
Speaker 1: I can't imagine it being that long, can you?
18:24
Speaker 2: No, I don't know what I took, but here I am.
18:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you for still being here.
18:29
Speaker 1: I thank the voice.
18:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, sort of snapping you out of it, I suppose.
18:32
Speaker 1: Would you say snapping you out of it, yes.
18:43
Speaker 2: And was that a result directly just bullying, or I think just because I was a sensitive soul, right?
18:45
Speaker 2: but yeah it was because that day this particular girl had been an absolute bitch right and I just thought I can't take this anymore and I wasn't strong enough to to boundary it.
18:51
Speaker 2: I didn't feel I didn't have any self-worth, so I wasn't strong enough to stop it.
18:57
Speaker 2: And it was years actually, because bullying reared its head again when I was an adult, with the horses, and it was a feral pony.
19:06
Speaker 2: I had to train this feral pony.
19:08
Speaker 2: She had no boundaries, so in learning to value myself, that's how I boundaried her and then I was able to boundary the bully and that's all.
19:16
Speaker 2: In my second book, the Farm, it's really deep inside the grey salsa.
19:19
Speaker 2: Well done, I like that.
19:20
Speaker 2: Did you rehearse that?
19:20
Speaker 2: No, which went?
19:21
Speaker 1: deep inside the grey salsa.
19:22
Speaker 1: Well done, I like that.
19:22
Speaker 1: Did you rehearse that?
19:23
Speaker 2: No, it was just.
19:24
Speaker 2: You know, chips off the tongue.
19:26
Speaker 1: I had a question lined up for you then as well.
19:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, the question was, I suppose these days, if you don't mind me saying back, when you did that at 14, social media wasn't an issue.
19:37
Speaker 2: No.
19:38
Speaker 1: Because now you know someone was a bitch to you at school, but now it follows these people on, doesn't it?
19:43
Speaker 1: There's no escape.
19:44
Speaker 2: Yes, it's horrendous.
19:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I can't get made around it sometimes, I'll be honest.
19:50
Speaker 1: I mean worst I ever getting chased on my pushback by one of the school bullies.
19:54
Speaker 2: Twats.
19:55
Speaker 1: Yeah Right, I would just follow it out.
19:56
Speaker 1: I got chinned and that were it, but nowadays it's just constant, isn't it for them?
20:01
Speaker 2: Yes, nasty.
20:03
Speaker 1: But adult bullying as well.
20:05
Speaker 2: Yes.
20:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I suppose that's not very well documented, is it?
20:12
Speaker 2: No, it was because I'd gone to this livery yard and livery yards are notorious for being very bitchy places.
20:16
Speaker 2: You'd think, right, a load of women with horses, they'd all be having a lovely time.
20:21
Speaker 2: The horses, horses, that's the whole point.
20:22
Speaker 2: But no, there's always a bitch, and it's usually the people that do dressage.
20:28
Speaker 2: And what an absolute bitch from hell this woman was.
20:31
Speaker 2: Because, you see, I was just really scruffy.
20:34
Speaker 2: When I go to deal with my, I'm scruffy anyway.
20:36
Speaker 2: You know, this is as good as it gets, and so I would just wear really ordinary scruffy clothes to go and deal with my horse, because I'm going to end up covered in mud and stuff.
20:44
Speaker 2: And she was so perfect, it's like she'd stepped off the pages of Vogue and it just it was like being at school again.
20:52
Speaker 2: And a lot of women say this.
20:53
Speaker 2: You know, women with horses it's split into two camps.
20:56
Speaker 2: There's the lovely women and then the bitchy women, and lovely women and then the bitchy women, and it is literally like you're at school again.
21:01
Speaker 2: And then I ended up taking on this feral pony for my daughter and she was an absolute.
21:05
Speaker 2: She literally walked physically onto us.
21:13
Speaker 2: There was no boundary, and so when I had to train her, the woman.
21:15
Speaker 2: She was an amazing woman.
21:15
Speaker 2: It wasn't about beating the horse and, you know, getting the spirit out of it.
21:19
Speaker 2: It was about working with it and learning to boundary a horse safely.
21:24
Speaker 2: You have to have self-worth.
21:26
Speaker 2: If you're strong in yourself, the horse will feel that energy and it'll step away.
21:31
Speaker 2: So you don't have to use any whips, you don't have to use it, you don't even have to touch it.
21:35
Speaker 2: You can literally, in your mind, feel so powerful.
21:39
Speaker 2: The horse will step backwards.
21:41
Speaker 2: And I had to learn to love myself.
21:43
Speaker 2: And she gave me this mantra, which was I completely love and approve of myself exactly as I am.
21:50
Speaker 2: And I had to say it out loud and I felt like such a tit because, you know, saying that to yourself it's embarrassing, isn't it?
21:57
Speaker 2: It's uncomfortable, but the more that I said it, the more that reprogrammed my brain and I actually believed it and it changed me.
22:05
Speaker 2: And then I was able to speak to this bully as an adult and it completely changed her and she realized that she was an absolute cow and she went for some therapy right, I was funnily enough.
22:17
Speaker 1: Funnily enough, I was just thinking, you know, you get to see these people in the mountain world.
22:20
Speaker 1: I see them absolutely all gleaming.
22:23
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
22:23
Speaker 1: And it's this you have to look like this.
22:25
Speaker 1: You have to just thinking you have to buy this certain gear, this top of the range gear.
22:31
Speaker 1: You just think it's all bullshit.
22:32
Speaker 1: There's some weakness behind you because you can't in your, in your ego.
22:35
Speaker 1: And again we go back to that in your ego.
22:38
Speaker 1: You need to look like this because, in fact, I had a fallout on Facebook, as usual one of your rants one of my rants?
22:44
Speaker 1: no, well, one of my rants, but it's like you know, we've set young people out on the hills and they haven't got the kit.
22:49
Speaker 1: Well, if the weather's shit, then we won't take them, but we'd take them.
22:52
Speaker 1: They might be in tracksuit bottoms.
22:57
Speaker 1: Why?
22:57
Speaker 1: It's all bullshit, isn't it?
22:58
Speaker 1: Yes, all the gear and no idea Exactly yeah, and in the horsey world as well, then.
23:04
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, it's full of them, but there may be some potential readers that could change their ways by reading some of your books, hopefully yes, so let's not put them all off.
23:15
Speaker 3: What about your third book, Beryl?
23:17
Speaker 2: Beryl finds his wings, my little sheep, he's so cute.
23:21
Speaker 2: He, beryl.
23:23
Speaker 2: Beryl finds his wings, my little sheep, he's so cute, he looks very cute, he is crazily cute.
23:25
Speaker 2: When he first came to our field he was really shy and he hid in the hedge and he was just.
23:31
Speaker 2: I was thinking, oh no, have I got the wrong sheep?
23:33
Speaker 2: He's not going to be a good therapy sheep.
23:35
Speaker 2: He won't even interact with any of us.
23:37
Speaker 2: And because he was so shy, he got bullied by the other sheep that took advantage of him and I kept telling him you're a wonderful sheep and I really love you.
23:45
Speaker 2: And eventually he got confident and now he will not be bullied.
23:48
Speaker 2: Nobody would dare.
23:49
Speaker 2: He's just, he's totally different.
23:52
Speaker 2: So his story is all about a little sheep who thinks negatively about himself.
23:56
Speaker 2: I'm no good at this, I'm no good at that.
23:58
Speaker 2: Nobody wants to be friends with me.
24:00
Speaker 2: I'm no good at this, I'm no good at that.
24:01
Speaker 2: Nobody wants to be friends with me.
24:02
Speaker 2: And then he's faced with a challenge where he has to help this little girl who he really loves, and so to succeed in the challenge, he has to change what he's thinking.
24:15
Speaker 2: So he changes his thoughts and he succeeds, and then his life is filled with happiness.
24:18
Speaker 2: So what I'm wanting from that book is to show children that you can change what your brain is saying to you.
24:25
Speaker 2: You can change how you think, and then your life will change alongside your thoughts.
24:31
Speaker 1: So is that a reference to what we've just talked about anyway with you?
24:35
Speaker 2: Yes.
24:35
Speaker 1: It's sort of like an affirmation.
24:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I suppose what I saw in Beryl was the memory of myself.
24:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was trying to explain to a young person the other week that we're working with about this thing with the angel and the devil the angel on one side you used to see it in cartoons, didn't you?
24:52
Speaker 1: Yes, so angel would be speaking, but angel's always small and devil always shouts loudest.
24:57
Speaker 1: Yes, and I think it's sort of like a reference to have you read chimp paradox message.
25:03
Speaker 1: I've read them with that before.
25:04
Speaker 1: Yes, with a where the chimps like three to five times stronger than the, than the human brain and the leaf.
25:10
Speaker 1: The more you let it talk, the more it shouts.
25:12
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, yeah and instills these negative thoughts.
25:15
Speaker 1: That's when we had toby wiltshire, because he was talking about.
25:18
Speaker 1: Negative thoughts are three times as easy and they've shown this in their brain scans that negative thoughts are three times as easy to make than positive thoughts, positive pathways.
25:29
Speaker 2: Terrible, isn't it?
25:30
Speaker 2: But if you were taught at school as a little child how to think, you would never go through the misery of thinking shit about yourself when you're a teenager.
25:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it's that again, we go back to that being told when you're a teenager.
25:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it's that Again, we go back to that being told things You're just told and drilled rather than being allowed your free thinking and that allowed to blossom.
25:49
Speaker 1: How many times have I mentioned me getting thrown into the gardening club, matt?
25:52
Speaker 1: Only a couple.
25:53
Speaker 1: You can mention it again.
25:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, as a kid playing up threw me into the gardening club.
25:57
Speaker 1: It was like brilliant, this is.
25:59
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
25:59
Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed to do French.
26:00
Speaker 1: I saw her at a gardening club planting trees, and it's as a punishment.
26:04
Speaker 1: As a punishment, brilliant punishment.
26:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like wow, this is amazing.
26:09
Speaker 1: And then now I look back at you know when I'm looking back at why I started doing the nature therapy stuff, you're like, yeah, nature is magic.
26:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we've torn ourselves away from it.
26:25
Speaker 1: This is a thing.
26:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, so with the, with all the sheep, and especially like beryl there, do you think on your, on a spiritual side, your positivity to beryl has helped?
26:31
Speaker 1: Is it him?
26:32
Speaker 2: yeah, it's b-e-r-e-l, which is the male version of the name beryl right, it means bear it's like a little brown bear right.
26:41
Speaker 1: So that are you.
26:42
Speaker 1: So are you in the belief that that your positivity has shown barrel, and that's why it?
26:47
Speaker 2: has, because I sit there with them all and I give them loads of love, because I genuinely I love them and that's really helps them to blossom.
26:55
Speaker 2: Their personalities have come out whereas, you know, when you have a big flock of sheep, I don't think they'd express themselves the way that mine do if they're not loved.
27:04
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:06
Speaker 2: All my sheep know that they're valued.
27:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose they're a flock of sheep.
27:09
Speaker 1: I don't know.
27:09
Speaker 1: I'm not getting into that really.
27:11
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're going to say.
27:14
Speaker 1: Well, just thinking.
27:15
Speaker 1: You know, this flock of sheep are usually bred for the plate, aren't they?
27:18
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
27:19
Speaker 1: So you know, when you see people saying that they love the sheep and then they send them off to an abattoir, then I suppose there's a different energy there, isn't there?
27:27
Speaker 2: Yes.
27:28
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:28
Speaker 2: I mean, there are some not-so-hideous abattoirs, some very well-earned.
27:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Asbestos you can get for.
27:35
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is you're spending time with your sheep and your sheep are acting in a therapeutic way.
27:41
Speaker 1: Where you're a flock of sheep.
27:43
Speaker 2: No, yeah, they're just.
27:45
Speaker 2: They're there for business.
27:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're basically a what's the word?
27:49
Speaker 1: Products?
27:49
Speaker 2: aren't they?
27:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are.
27:51
Speaker 1: Livestock, livestock.
27:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're not feeling the same, are they?
27:55
Speaker 1: No, they're not being loved.
27:58
Speaker 3: No one sings to them.
27:59
Speaker 2: No loved.
28:00
Speaker 2: No one sings to them.
28:00
Speaker 2: No, nobody sings to them about how wonderful and special and fresh they are.
28:04
Speaker 1: Fair.
28:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, what sort of people, what sort of issues that have people come to you with that these particular sheep have?
28:11
Speaker 1: You've mentioned the one with the lady with the.
28:13
Speaker 2: It's mainly it goes through phases.
28:16
Speaker 2: At the moment, People with depression Right, that's their forte make people laugh.
28:21
Speaker 3: And is it one sheep kind of looks after one person or is it all the sheep come together?
28:28
Speaker 3: Do you see attachments from certain people with certain sheeps or do the sheep pick a certain person.
28:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, the sheeps, no, well, and the horses.
28:39
Speaker 2: So the horses are there as well.
28:40
Speaker 2: So for the lady who lost her son, one of my horses is always the one that comes up, and Merlin is always the one that comes up, and then with other people it might be either a different horse or a different sheep.
28:53
Speaker 2: It's as if they just resonate, they feel the energy and they know which one is the right one.
29:00
Speaker 2: So, for example, when it first started, I had a lady come up.
29:04
Speaker 2: She had liver cancer.
29:05
Speaker 2: It was my big ginger horse, who's normally very aloof and she doesn't like to interact with strangers.
29:10
Speaker 2: She walked straight up to this woman, put her nose on the tumour and just stood with her for ages.
29:16
Speaker 2: The woman cried and felt loads better afterwards.
29:18
Speaker 2: So I'm assuming that my horse could smell the tumour.
29:21
Speaker 2: And yeah, so they just know I'll let them.
29:24
Speaker 2: They're all running free, they're not forced to do anything, so I just step back and watch.
29:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've read about that with I can't remember what breed of dog it was that the dog can smell tumours as they're.
29:35
Speaker 1: You know they haven't been detected, but the dog can smell the cancer in people and this is like you know.
29:41
Speaker 1: Get on it early and see if it can be treated.
29:43
Speaker 2: They've got an incredible sense of well, all their senses.
29:46
Speaker 2: They must think we are completely dull and dumb.
29:49
Speaker 2: They can hear loads better than us.
29:51
Speaker 2: They can see Like sheep, have got almost like 365, you know degree of vision and the smell and the taste.
29:59
Speaker 2: They're living in a totally different world and we're just like blobs of grey.
30:03
Speaker 1: Well, most of us are walking around with our heads down looking at those mobile phones.
30:06
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm not going on a rant about mobile phones.
30:09
Speaker 1: I did actually see a young lady today crossing the road with a mobile like that Off a vane going off.
30:16
Speaker 1: Just like, oh see, just like.
30:18
Speaker 3: Wow, and step right in front of your car.
30:21
Speaker 1: Well, I pulled up actually I went we're all right.
30:23
Speaker 1: Oh God, that's sad.
30:24
Speaker 1: I mean, in a sort of reverse way, I might have probably been like that if I'd done my own experiences.
30:30
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
30:31
Speaker 1: And this 25-year journey of Seb Head's got in the microphone there.
30:36
Speaker 1: You weren't aware of that, were you?
30:38
Speaker 1: You could have done with some 360 degree vision, seed vision, sheep vision yeah, I suppose we could.
30:46
Speaker 1: I mean, as a species, we're just very comfortable now, aren't we?
30:48
Speaker 1: I suppose, apart from us own, the idiots within our species, that's our threat, isn't it?
30:56
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we're the only stupid idiots that choose the idiots to be the leader of the herd.
31:00
Speaker 1: Yeah.
31:01
Speaker 2: No other herd of animals would choose the moron to be the leader.
31:06
Speaker 3: I mean, that's very well put, chris.
31:08
Speaker 3: Yes, very well put.
31:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, definitely.
31:10
Speaker 1: So how are things going with the animal therapy as in, since you've had quite a lot of coverage?
31:18
Speaker 2: yeah, it's been amazing.
31:20
Speaker 2: Well, at the moment, my main thing is writing, right, so I only have time to treat a few people.
31:27
Speaker 2: Because it's I want to get these books out, because my main thing is I want to earn my living from books so that I can treat people for free, right, so I have to have all these books out and then get them going and then I'll have more time to do more therapy work.
31:41
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just been brilliant and amazing and loads of fun the whole.
31:44
Speaker 2: I mean I've lost count of how many magazines and newspapers I've been in and other podcasts and the whole TV thing.
31:51
Speaker 2: I mean it's the best fun ever.
31:54
Speaker 1: It's brilliant.
31:55
Speaker 2: Other podcasts yeah, sorry, best fun ever.
31:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, brilliant.
31:57
Speaker 2: Other podcast yeah, sorry.
31:59
Speaker 1: No, it's amazing what you're doing.
32:00
Speaker 1: I mean, if suppose it's a bit, is it a bit of a catch 20?
32:04
Speaker 1: Is it 22 catch 22?
32:05
Speaker 1: When you want to do, you're having to focus on the writing so you can fund more therapy yes, but it'll get there, yeah.
32:12
Speaker 2: So I feel that now is the time for all of this writing.
32:15
Speaker 2: Then it will change and I'll have more time to do more of my healing work.
32:20
Speaker 3: I wonder if you're going to have to write a book every time you get a new sheet.
32:23
Speaker 2: Probably, but that's not a bad thing.
32:27
Speaker 1: But you say there's some more books coming out.
32:28
Speaker 1: These three are published now.
32:31
Speaker 1: Yes, and there's some more in the pipeline.
32:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got one's coming out in June.
32:35
Speaker 2: That's about my new baby, rhubarb, and that's all about the realisation of oneness, because what I want is for children to realise actually none of us are separate.
32:45
Speaker 2: We are nature.
32:47
Speaker 2: There's no separation between us and nature.
32:49
Speaker 2: The same energy that animates you is the same energy that animates me.
32:54
Speaker 2: A tree, a dog, a rock, and so his journey.
32:58
Speaker 2: He's looking for a mother.
33:00
Speaker 2: He eventually realises that the real mother is mother nature and we are all one family and hopefully that might stop the next generation from warring and killing each other if they realise we're all one.
33:13
Speaker 3: That's the main problem, isn't it?
33:15
Speaker 3: We get taught hatred, we get taught racism.
33:19
Speaker 2: Yes, it's egotistic.
33:20
Speaker 3: It's everything that we kind of live through gets taught, because when little kids all play together, they never care who they play with, as long as they play.
33:28
Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
33:29
Speaker 2: And then we thought well, you're from a different country and nobody owns a country.
33:34
Speaker 2: Nobody owns land.
33:35
Speaker 2: The earth owns land, so earth owns land.
33:38
Speaker 2: So all these wars about different, that's my bit of country Rubbish.
33:42
Speaker 2: It will never be yours.
33:43
Speaker 3: There you go again.
33:44
Speaker 2: Yes, so yeah.
33:47
Speaker 1: The issues that are not issues, the times that I've spent with young people that I'm working with excuse me trying to cuddle the tree and not even just say cuddle, just hug a tree, but why, why?
33:56
Speaker 1: And they just can't get their head around it.
33:58
Speaker 1: You know, I mean about that living, sort of living energy, yeah, and you will get something.
34:02
Speaker 1: It's reciprocal.
34:03
Speaker 1: You know, absolutely I did, I was doing it with adults.
34:06
Speaker 1: Well, I'm doing it with adults, but I was, you know, trying to, and people just think it's death, but you, you know being just being out and part of nature, yeah, like you say, it's that connection.
34:16
Speaker 1: If, if you haven't got that connection, I don't think you've got a connection with yourself.
34:18
Speaker 2: No, exactly because our real self is the same self in every other self that.
34:23
Speaker 2: You see, we just think that we're separate.
34:25
Speaker 2: Actually we're not.
34:27
Speaker 3: Definitely Some real life lessons here.
34:30
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, no, no, it's all well, it's good, isn't it?
34:32
Speaker 1: Because I'm just, you know, I'm just setting out doing my nature therapy myself.
34:36
Speaker 1: So, as in practicing with other people, brilliant, yeah, that's a new thing.
34:40
Speaker 1: Well, I qualified last year.
34:42
Speaker 2: Awesome.
34:43
Speaker 1: Yes, I got a certificate and everything.
34:44
Speaker 2: Lovely.
34:45
Speaker 1: I'll be doing it for quite a long time.
34:47
Speaker 1: Anyway.
34:47
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, just you know.
34:48
Speaker 1: It's just that, like I said before, you know this thing about separation and you know your team plays in a different colour, so we don't talk to you.
35:02
Speaker 2: Yes, it's mental.
35:03
Speaker 1: It's bonkers, isn't it?
35:04
Speaker 1: I said that to Chelsea fans, but anyway, well, that's all good.
35:07
Speaker 1: So where are we all going?
35:09
Speaker 1: Where do we stand?
35:10
Speaker 1: Then We've got another two or three coming out, four.
35:13
Speaker 1: Where do you see it?
35:18
Speaker 2: Well, for where do you see it?
35:18
Speaker 2: Well, I think there will be quite a few more.
35:19
Speaker 2: I'll just let them come out as they.
35:20
Speaker 2: So I get the inspiration, and then it comes out, and I'm always surprised by what comes out.
35:23
Speaker 2: I'm literally just a vessel.
35:25
Speaker 2: So I get the inspiration, I can feel the energy.
35:28
Speaker 2: Sit down I know that sounds a bit hippy dippy, but I do.
35:31
Speaker 2: I feel the energy, I sit down and then I start typing it and I'm always thinking, oh, my god, where did that come from?
35:36
Speaker 2: Wow, so I'm literally, I'm just a vessel.
35:39
Speaker 2: Somebody more wise than me is putting those words on and is it therapeutic to you to be writing it?
35:47
Speaker 2: I love it.
35:48
Speaker 2: I love writing.
35:49
Speaker 2: It's my absolute favorite thing.
35:51
Speaker 2: I mean I love doing my therapy work.
35:53
Speaker 2: Writing is I love that.
35:55
Speaker 1: I mean it's an extension of my therapy work yeah, I mean, it's just one of them things, isn't it?
36:03
Speaker 1: That's?
36:03
Speaker 1: You know, I used to, but I'm used to like reading books.
36:06
Speaker 1: It's all audio books for me now, right, yeah, I'm that sort of learner, unfortunately yeah, no.
36:11
Speaker 2: Well, that's how it is, isn't it?
36:13
Speaker 1: we've all got different senses but I suppose that's me accepting that rather than getting angry about it like I used to do.
36:19
Speaker 2: Yeah that's crazy.
36:20
Speaker 1: Breaking computers.
36:22
Speaker 3: Are these available as audio?
36:24
Speaker 2: No, not yet that's a good idea.
36:27
Speaker 2: Well, do you know what, though, I?
36:28
Speaker 3: think Charlie might listen to them.
36:30
Speaker 2: Read them to you.
36:31
Speaker 1: I don't know.
36:32
Speaker 1: Do you know what I think with audiobooks, though, you'd lose the illustration, wouldn't you?
36:37
Speaker 2: The illustrations are awesome and for young people.
36:40
Speaker 1: You know I'm at an age where you know I'm quite happy to be driving my car and listening to an audiobook rather than listening to music, and generally I'm listening to something about mental health, mental wellbeing, so that we can use it on the podcast.
36:52
Speaker 1: But for a young person to be getting a copy and sat reading it and engaging with it?
36:58
Speaker 1: Yes, Because they're then focused in that, aren't they?
37:01
Speaker 1: Yes, they're immersed in it.
37:03
Speaker 1: Yes, there's a big thing about focus.
37:04
Speaker 1: And then, while they're focused, actually reading, they're not thinking about these issues that they might originally be reading the book for.
37:11
Speaker 2: Exactly.
37:12
Speaker 3: And they're holding something else in their hand rather than a tablet.
37:15
Speaker 2: Yes.
37:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a phone.
37:18
Speaker 2: That's what I love about these books.
37:19
Speaker 2: The artist who illustrated them is called Andrew Prescott, and he is amazing.
37:25
Speaker 3: Very good.
37:25
Speaker 2: And what I wanted was, you know, like when that's a woodpecker.
37:29
Speaker 1: I think it's a goldfinch actually I'm sure it's a goldfinch.
37:33
Speaker 1: It's quite big, but anyway.
37:38
Speaker 2: So yeah, because there's a lot of children's books now with very sort of forgettable cartoons, but when I was little I loved things like Beatrix Potter and the beautiful illustrations and I wanted to have something that they're all watercolour paintings in these books.
37:50
Speaker 3: Really yes.
37:53
Speaker 2: So that's what I wanted something meaningful for little minds to immerse in, and adults as well, reading them to the children.
38:01
Speaker 1: So what sort of feedback have you been having?
38:03
Speaker 2: Amazing feedback.
38:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, the most incredible was actually this woman.
38:07
Speaker 2: Her mother had just died in a hospice and she bothered to find me on Facebook so that she could send me a message to say I was crying about my mum and I've read your book Merlin Finds His Magic, and it made me feel as if I'd received a hug Right.
38:25
Speaker 2: I cried when I got that message.
38:27
Speaker 2: Her mother had just died and she did that.
38:29
Speaker 2: So and that's just one of many messages from adults who have absolutely loved them, teachers who've loved them and kids so like one really lovely thing was this little girl dressed up as merlin for world book day and and things like that are just wow, like people saying oh, my daughter really loved your book.
38:48
Speaker 2: When's the next one?
38:50
Speaker 2: She keeps wanting me to read it every day, and how awesome is that yeah, that's cool it's the best.
38:56
Speaker 2: Literally every time I get a message I cry I'm very emotional, but yeah, I'm like so nice.
39:02
Speaker 2: So yeah, they are doing their job the question I forgot.
39:06
Speaker 1: Sorry you found it.
39:07
Speaker 1: No, it were in my head.
39:08
Speaker 1: It went in my head, but I've been looking through the books and I think that's a red kite that walk in it.
39:14
Speaker 1: You see, yes, yes, that's a red kite that walk in it.
39:16
Speaker 1: You see, yes.
39:16
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a red kite, correct?
39:17
Speaker 1: There you go.
39:18
Speaker 2: Because we get red kites on our field.
39:20
Speaker 2: It's lovely.
39:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, how can people join your therapy?
39:23
Speaker 3: Do you take people on?
39:24
Speaker 3: You said you were really busy and you probably spend more time writing the books at the minute At the moment.
39:29
Speaker 2: Yes, however, I still make time for people, so I'm on Facebook, instagram.
39:35
Speaker 2: I have my own website, so on my website.
39:40
Speaker 2: They can contact me there via that, which is GraceOlsonAuthorcom.
39:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, we will put that in the information.
39:51
Speaker 2: And I've got a YouTube channel.
39:52
Speaker 2: Actually, if anybody wants a good laugh and see my videos of me singing to Galahad- oh, that's cool.
39:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll put that on us, wouldn't we?
39:58
Speaker 1: Definitely we'll add that to the link so, yeah, people love my galahad videos.
40:03
Speaker 2: That's another bit of therapy, literally.
40:05
Speaker 2: People say, seeing your videos of galahad just makes me feel happy for the day, because he loves being on camera.
40:11
Speaker 2: He sees himself in the thing and he's like, oh, that's me and he just loves it.
40:15
Speaker 2: We'll have to go down.
40:16
Speaker 2: Ooh, that's me, and he just loves it.
40:17
Speaker 3: We'll have to go down town.
40:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go down, we'll have some cuddles.
40:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going.
40:22
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not even that far away, it's like ten minutes down the road.
40:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it, seb.
40:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, white Fox Talking on location.
40:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, get the camera out.
40:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be hilarious.
40:34
Speaker 3: Merlin would love it, we could do a vlog we could do a vlog Ace.
40:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, we'll sort that out.
40:40
Speaker 1: We'll sort this out.
40:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, are we on?
40:42
Speaker 1: We're on, right, cool, cool, right that's been lovely.
40:45
Speaker 2: That's a lovely podcast.
40:47
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for coming back.
40:48
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for having me.
40:53
Speaker 1: How many more books till you come back, I don't know.
40:55
Speaker 1: I think we should make it a regular thing.
40:56
Speaker 1: We'll just put pressure on you now by saying you know, I want to listen to, I want to see you in it.
41:02
Speaker 2: Big one coming soon, which I won't tell you now, but it's actually a massive issue that affects 15% of the population 50 or 15?
41:10
Speaker 2: , 15.
41:11
Speaker 3: 15.
41:12
Speaker 2: So when we've pressed stop, I'll tell you about that, because that'll be.
41:16
Speaker 2: I think it's so important to be talked about.
41:20
Speaker 3: That'll be when you're next in then.
41:21
Speaker 2: Yes.
41:22
Speaker 3: Right, perfect.
41:23
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for being here today.
41:25
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you very much, and if you'd like to support us and help us keep the podcast going, then you can go to Buys a Coffee or you can click that on our website, whitefoxtalkingcom, and look for their little cup.
41:39
Speaker 1: Thank you.