Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct Episode 263: Bledisloe questions as injury toll mounts

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Rugby Direct Episode 263: Bledisloe questions as injury toll mounts · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and your business to a higher level. Test match edition
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: of Rugby Direct. Elliot Smith from Newstalk ZB with me,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Liam Napier from the New Zealand Herald. And Liam, a
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: fair bit of water's gone under the bridge since we
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: recorded on Monday as to the All Blacks team. But first,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: let's get to the big news. Shea Feeharki is in
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: the All Blacks squad.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Well, you've certainly had drums beating for, what, like three years? Mm-hmm.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: And... I actually went a little bit cold on him
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: the last few months, and finally he's now in the
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: All Blacks.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe that was it. Look, I understand the appeal
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: of his ability in the air. He's got some talents,
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: but I still have some concerns about his defence, and
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: if it was up to me, it would be... Amoni
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Narawe every day of the week.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Well, they have also called in Amoni Narawe, although that
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: was a little bit weird. We had the media conference
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: at 12.30 saying Dave Rooney wasn't going to call anyone in.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Then a couple of hours later, they go, actually, Amoni
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Narawe was on his way up to join the All Blacks.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: A little bit of a surprise, though, because you go,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: surely Amoni would be head of Shea in the pecking order,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: given one's coming after the other. I don't know. That
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: surprised me.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, big time. Big surprise.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: I guess they're similar players in some respects that they're
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: both good in the air but yeah Amoni having gone
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: to South Africa being in the squad for that period
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: of time I felt like he was really knocking on
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: the door only to be pushed out the back door
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Shea Fihiaki coming in and then Amoni replacing Moanga for
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: the Bledisloe series so they're stacked in the outside back's
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: and yet to solve the highball issues.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: They are, but maybe Shea Fihaki is the first step
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: in regards to that. Look, here's a name for you,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Kyron Tom Wefler, I believe, and I have to double
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: check this, is eligible as of tomorrow. Today. Today, is it?
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Today, 9am, apparently.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, there we go. Would you have put him in
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the mix ahead of a Fihaki or Ngarawa?
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Not yet, but look, he's building a compelling case, isn't he?
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: What is it, 18 tries this season for Tasman, record-breaking campaign. Yeah.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: probably can't do a lot more, he is a guy
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: that's good in the air, another slight winger but certainly
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: brings finishing ability and he can't do any more so
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: think they have to seriously look at him for the
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: end of the year but the question is then who
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: misses out because you can't take everyone.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: No you can't um we've gone this around about way
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: but richie mwonga being out for the opening two bledders
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: low cup test is a big blow for him personally
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: but for the all blacks as well um obviously a
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: test in baltimore reuben love out injured for the rest
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: of the year as we know now it was set
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: up for richie mwonga to have a real tilt at
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: this 10 jersey now We'll get to who's replacing him
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: in a moment, but just on Richie Mwanga personally, that
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: is a blow. Don't know how long it is yet.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: At the moment, it's two weeks. Could be longer.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a blow, and I think it's quite disruptive
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: in a week like this for the All Blacks because
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Mwanga was named on Monday in the team to start
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: at 10. He was retaining the keys to guide the team.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Then the next day on Tuesday at training, the calf
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: goes ping. We don't know at this point how long
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: he's out for. He is definitely out of the bledders lows, but... um,
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: that's quite a significant disruption. I think, um, you know,
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: McKenzie coming in, he's only probably had one, one and
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: a half trainings this week, uh, with the team. So, um,
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: a big setback from Wonga would have been great for
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: him personally to have a real run of it. You
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: could see the All Blacks fully investing in him for
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: the remainder of the year, giving him time. And, you know,
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: with the world cup to come, that would have been
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: extremely invaluable, particularly with Ruben Love injured as well. So, um,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: And Rennie has been very open about the facts prior
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: to this week that he views McKenzie as a fullback.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: But it's a case of needs must, and he's had
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: his hand forced.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: He has a little bit. And as you say, Damian
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: McKenzie to start at 10. We were talking about this
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: in the office in the hours between Munger being ruled
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: out and us getting the team as to which way
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: he'd go. Personally, I would have gone with Josh Jacob
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: at 10. You've already gone to your third option. I
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: think you need to find out a little bit more
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: about Josh Jacob and Damian McKenzie's played plenty of 10
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: for the All Blacks in the past, so too has
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Bowdoin Barrett. He has gone with Damian McKenzie and Bowdoin
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Barrett at fullback, but I probably would have gone Jacob
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: and just seen what was out there. But clearly with
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: the Bledsoe Cup on the line, three test matches, lost
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: in a row, Dave Rennie was not willing to take
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: that risk of starting an inexperienced player at 10.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: No, it's a massive week and it would have been....
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: Huge task or occasion to throw Josh Jacob in for
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: his test debut. Eden Park records, Bledisloe, Wallabies, you know,
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: as you say, the All Blacks needing to respond. And personally,
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: I didn't see enough from Jacob in South Africa in
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: those midweek games to convince me that he's ready in
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: a test match of this significance to start. but I
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: think what it also says the selection is they don't
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: really see Bowdoin as a compelling first five option either
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: because the path of least disruption would have been to
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: leave McKenzie at fullback. They've gone the other way and
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: injected Bowdoin into the backfield where he largely featured for
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks. Interestingly, Bowdoin only played 15 minutes, I think,
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: of the greatest rivalry series test matches. So he's been
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: very much on the arter. Now he's starting at fullback.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: There's all the narrative around the All Blacks and the
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: pressure on their backfield and their high ball. I personally
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: don't see him being a solution to that. He has
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: looked a wee bit timid in the air and contact.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: But who knows? Let's see how he goes. McKenzie I
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: have more faith in.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: I think while he basically shat the bed in the Super.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Rugby finals, So the rest of the Chiefs, though, to
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: be fair. Yeah, but he really struggled with the wind.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: It was a very unique occasion. But he has played
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: some really good tests for the All Blacks. So if
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: he just plays that steady hand and minimizes the, I
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: don't know, the brain explosions that he can have or
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: the tendencies just to go a bit rogue, if he
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: just plays that controlling influence, I think.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: It's the best option that they had available.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I spoke to Biden Barrett today, and you can
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: hear it in our build-up coverage on Saturday for the
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: test match around that, and he's in no doubt as
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: to what's coming, the high ball, and he expects to
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: be targeted there. He's going to have to really, along
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: with the rest of the back three, lift his game,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I suppose, and put his best foot forward because we
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: just have not seen a lot of him this year.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: No, and when you talk about what's coming, it's Joseph
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: Sui Lee. And look at the influence that he had
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: immediately when switching from center to the wing with the
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Wallabies against the Springboks from the opening kickoff, he claimed.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: And he terrorized the box-back three who were superb.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Against the All Blacks.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: So it's fascinating to see how the All Blacks plan
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: and whether they can mitigate his influence because he's got
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: to be one of the world's best in there.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, unsurprisingly, he is back on the wing for the Wallabies.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: This week, they had a little bit of a temptation
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: maybe to move him back into the midfield with Hunter
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Paisami out injured, but they've gone with Ikitao and Isaac
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Henry in midfield. Around the rest of that All Blacks team,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: no surprises in midfield. Leroy Carter on the left wing. Look,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: we don't know. Fihi Finianganofu out with a head knock
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: and a hamstring. He's just having no luck apart from
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: getting out of his Newcastle contract. That's probably the only
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: thing that's really gone wrong. his way in the last
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: couple of months because he just seems to collect injuries
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: to fun at the moment, which is unfortunate.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm hearing that he's in a bit of a
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: race against time for the India tour. Certainly won't be
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: fit for next week's bleed is low. And it's a
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: shame because time's running out, isn't it? Um, you've got,
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: as we mentioned, time, we fill out the hockey, um,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: Caleb Clark still.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: To come back. Uh, I'm only in another is in
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: the mix.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: So, um, Fihi really needs a chance, he needs to
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: regain fitness and he's looking a bit brittle at the moment,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: it's been knock after knock after knock and that left
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: wing jersey in particular does seem wide open. Leroy Carter
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: and Josh Morby have been used there but Interchange, they
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: both paid the price for defensive lapses against the Springboks.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: Rennie loves their work rate but it is quite a
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: a small back three, I think the All Blacks are
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: missing a power element back there.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they are too. And I'm not convinced
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: about the back cover on the bench either with, well,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: clearly Preston's now the second choice, halfback with right-handed back
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: in the mix now. But to go Ioane, I don't
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: mind Ioane, I think that's a good selection. I like that.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know what Josh Morby adds on the wing.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: He can cover both wings, but it just feels like a,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Bit of a nothing selection. I'm not sure he's a
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: game changer in terms of what he can do. To me,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: he's one of those players that either starts or isn't.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: On the bench. Yeah, I agree.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: I don't think you need him there when you've got
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Rico in particular. Rico can play on the wing, midfield.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: You've got other options. So I don't know. I don't
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: see Josh Morby as an impact player.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: No, neither do I. So he's going to have to
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: prove us wrong over the next couple of weeks potentially.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: The rest of the All Blacks bench though, there's some
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: serious power to come off that. Shannon Frizzell, Osafa Almoha,
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: that's the one concern. I like the look of this
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: Wallabies team. They are missing Tanalea Latupo, Tom Hooper, Hunter Paisami,
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: which does hurt their chance. But looking at their starting team,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: you know, they'll bring a lot of confidence over here.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: They've won five in a row under Leskis. The one
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: question mark I have is about their bench. And when
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: you take a couple of players out, Australian rugby's depth
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: is not great. And I just think with that power
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: coming off the All Blacks bench, that could be a
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: real weapon for them.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I like Champion Dekrepini. I think he's a
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: good player, but I think he's one of those players
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: that's better starting, you know, than coming off the bench
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: and and adding impact. So I agree, the starting side's
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: really good. The test will be if they're still in
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: the contest around the hour mark, how does that last
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: 20 minutes unfold for the Wallabies. The All Blacks pack,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a surprise in the loose forwards,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: just the players have gone with there, and perhaps the
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: positions and jerseys they're wearing. We talked the other day,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I think we both thought that Shannon Frizzell might start
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: on the blind side, instead it's Tupo Vai. Peter Lachey's
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: got an open side flanker, which is a bit of
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: a departure from The Jacobson Black had a mould of
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: use so far this year and Satiti at number eight.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: So an interesting loose forward trail. What do you make
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: of that?
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: It's a bit curious.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: What I take from it is there's a real laser
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: focus on the All Blacks set piece and Tupu Vai
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: brings that extra height and size and I really liked
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: what he brought against the box on the edge, roaming wide,
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: using his long arms and levers to offload. I think
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: it was that Josh Morby. try running off VAR in
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the wide channels at Alice Park from memory. I didn't
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: think they'd go VAR because I don't think you need
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: that extra size against the Wallabies who are a completely
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: different prospect to the box. They'll play with pace, they'll
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: use the width, they'll offload and they'll kick from the
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: base with Lonergan butts. So we would have a surprise
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: that VAR's there and a wee bit curious I think
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: that Peter Lakai's at open side and Wallace Atesi's at eights.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: There's been so much interchange around those loose forwards. It's
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: good to see Anton Cegner back. I can understand the
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: rationale with Shannon Frizzell coming back, building his way back
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: to match fitness.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they've also selected Scott Barrett in the starting side,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a moment. He's had less
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: rugby than Shannon Frizzell.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Exactly, 92 minutes, two games for Taranaki since last November.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: So it's a big ask for him to come in
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: and hit the ground running immediately. But I think that, again,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: speaks to the set piece. The All Blacks scrum, their
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: line-out's been shaky. His combination with Cody Taylor, his experience
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: should be a steadying influence. So that's probably why they've
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: got the confidence to inject him straight back in.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look, a bit of a surprise to me just
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: the way that they've organised that loose forward tree. I
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: didn't think they'd go luck-eyed open side flanker because they've
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: gone with that industrious Jacobson, Blackadder-type player. Previously, there's no
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: room for Blackout in this week's 23. Blackout's a quality player.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not sold on the mix necessarily, and I don't
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: know that Tupo Vai is the right blind side for
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: this game against Australia. I would have put Frizzell in there,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: despite the fact he's not had a lot of rugby.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: I think it mitigates your influence at the breakdown. If
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: you're thinking about alternate loose forward trio where you could
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: have potentially had Lakai at eight and Cegna at seven,
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: and then you've got two genuine breakdown exponents where Lakai's
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: probably your only real feature as such in that starting team.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: You suspect that Barrett will go maybe 50 minutes and
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: then Tupou will switch to lock and Josh Lord will
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: be asked to play 80?
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would probably be the ideal scenario if they
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: can put it out there. Barrett and Lord in the
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: second row, or Taranaki, they played together a couple of
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: weeks ago. against Talks Bay. Now they get an opportunity
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: to do it from McLean Park to Eden Park.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the Taranaki Chiefs Mafia strikes again.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: I preferred it was the Canterbury Mafia. We're in Black Mafia.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Tyrell Lomax is the other one.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: Yep. He paid the price for the all-black scrum issues
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: in South Africa, nowhere to be seen. Pasolio Tosi on
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: the bench, Fletcher Newell starting, and Dave Rennie opened about
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: the fact that he's had a firm message, and that was...
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: very similar to the rhetoric around Wallace Atiti earlier this year.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. Yeah, and look, there's some things he
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: needs to work on. They've sent him back out of
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: the 23 to go sort that out. I'm sure he'll
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: get an opportunity before too long, too good of a
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: player not to, but clearly wasn't at his peak. He's
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: had a number of injuries over the last 12 to
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: 18 months, thumb issues and various other things and probably
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: hasn't looked his best since his return. We know the
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: world-class player he can be, but He's got a bit
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: of work to do, I guess, to recapture that form
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: a year out from the World Cup.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: And I think it shows that no one's a protected species,
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: that if you're not playing well, he had a number
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: of chances in South Africa and didn't step up. Just
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: going back to the bench and the back reserves, and
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: you talk about impact, you've got Rico who could cover
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: the wing, why not have Tava Tavanawa? You think about impact,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: genuine impact.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Well, it was interesting to hear Dave Rennie talk today about,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: he was asked about whether he was tempted to use them.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: And clearly there is some work rate and other issues
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: that they're looking at for him.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: But you're only talking 20 minutes.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, totally. You should be able to trust someone that
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: can play 20 minutes in a test match. You know,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: he's such a unique player. I don't think he's the
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: full package necessarily, but he is. a game changer. And
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I think those are the kind of players you need.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: And I've harped on about this before in the podcast
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: is that, you know, the All Blacks 10 have used
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: their bench as an insurance policy rather than something that's
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: going to accelerate or close out your game plan in
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: the final 25 minutes of a test match. And I
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: think you need to go, right, what's our strength? What
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: are we looking to really drive our advantage home? To me,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Tava Tawa Naua, as I said, is not the complete package.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't start him in a test match, but if
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: you could add him off the bench and use that
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: wrecking ball in the last 20 minutes or so. I
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: think that's a real positive.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: You just need to give him a chance. And Rene
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: sort of hinted that maybe that might be next week
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: in Sydney. But again, time's running out. So I would
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: have preferred him to be there over Morby. What's your
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: sense of this test match? You know, the history speaks
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: for itself in terms of what the Wallabies are up against.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: 40 years without a win at Eden Park. 23 years
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: without the Bleds. 11 losses in a row to the
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: All Blacks. They haven't won in New Zealand anywhere for
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: five years. But it does feel like, you know, with
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: all the injury defections for the All Blacks, three losses
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: to South Africa, lots of change, lots of disruption, maybe
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: they're a bit vulnerable.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Is this a great chance for the World Series?
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, vulnerable was the word I was going to use.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: I think the All Blacks will win on Saturday night,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: but I think they are vulnerable. And... it would only
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: take the Wallabies starting well and the All Blacks having
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: to dig themselves out of a hole to really put
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: them on the back foot and having, you know, being
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: forced to chase the game that may make things really
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable for the All Blacks. If the All Blacks start strongly,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: then I think, you know, they'll probably be okay. But
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: with all the injuries and departures with the All Blacks currently,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: in fact, look, I don't think the confidence is low
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: coming off South Africa, you know, even with three losses,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's a confidence issue in the All Blacks.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: But I think naturally, when you do lose three games
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: in a row, you begin to second guess yourself. You
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: begin to go, geez, this happened in South Africa. We're
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: behind on the scoreboard here. How do we get ourselves
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: out of it? So I expect the All Blacks to win,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: but I think this is a very good chance for
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Australia to knock a few of those long-time records off
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: the shelf.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, give them a genuine chance.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: I think, look, for 23 years, two decades, there's probably
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: been a sense of dread around Australian fans, around the
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Wallabies coming to Eden Park.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, here we go again. But this one, it does
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: feel a wee bit different.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: And the Wallabies aren't the complete package, but I think
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: they come here with a genuine sense of belief and confidence.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: And the Bledisloe has flown under the radar this year
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: as well, compared to the greatest rivalry series.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: It was interesting.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: To hear Quinta Paya and Josh Lord talking today about
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Tana Umanga addressing the team and speaking about his time
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: as captain and what it meant to lose the Bledisloe
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: and to not have it. And they had some messages
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: from Brad Thorne come in as well, just to sort
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: of remind these players who have basically lived certainly all
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: their adult lives with the All Blacks retaining the Bledisloe.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Like at this point, it should be given citizenship.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well. Exactly. He's lived here for an incredibly long time.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: And look, I can remember the years, you know, Matt
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Burke was at the All Blacks press day today. He
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: got the penalty goal to retain it one year. Tua
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Takefu scored a try another year, right at the death
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: to deny the All Blacks.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: John Eales.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: John Eales, absolutely, in 2000. And then finally in 2003,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: they managed to snatch it back and it hasn't left since. But,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: you know, the Wallabies have... not really gone close for
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: a number of years because they've struggled to win in
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: New Zealand. If they win in New Zealand, go to
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Sydney next week, that's the ideal scenario for them.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think for the All Blacks, we're, what,
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: three months, three and a half, four months into Rennie's tenure,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: and the narrative massively shifts this week. They were outsiders
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: in South Africa, going over there against the world champions.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Everything was stacked against them. We're coming home, back to
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Eden Park, against an opponent they've dominated for years. the
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: pressure is firmly on Rennie and the All Blacks this
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: week they're red hot favourites they need to deliver vast
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: improvements in their set piece the high ball and if
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: they don't then the Wolves start caving in very early.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: They do, absolutely. Four losses in a row. It's 1998 territory.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: What's your prediction then?
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: I think the All Blacks by 7 to 10. I
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: think it'll be a lot tighter than maybe some people expect,
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: but I think the All Blacks bench will edge the Wallabies.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: But I've been impressed by what I've seen from the
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Wallabies so far. But there probably is a bit of
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: context around their win over the box as well. 13
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: starting changes, vastly different team from the one that played
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks in.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: The greatest rivalry series.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: But there's a few weaknesses in the All Blacks team
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: to exploit. So it's up to the Wallabies to do that.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the All Blacks win. I'm going to
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: say 13 plus still, but I think they are vulnerable.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Before we wrap up, New Zealand Rugby today filing proceedings
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: in the High Court of New Zealand against Australian Rugby
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: League Commission's decision to launch the Papa New Guinea. Chiefs,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: this has been bubbling away for a wee while now
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: and New Zealand Rugby clearly haven't had their phone calls
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: returned from Peter Volandes because they've gone, right, we're taking
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: this to court. What do you make of it?
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: The gloves are off.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: It's very much NZ Rugby v the NRL and To
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: a degree, this has been happening off the field from
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: the battles for hearts and minds, particularly in an Auckland-centric
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: world with the rise of the Warriors and it's now
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: spilled over into the courtroom. From what we understand, New
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Zealand Rugby has tried to negotiate with Volandes and the
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: NRL for the best part of a year around the
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: copyright protection of the Chiefs. Of course, just up the
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: road in Hamilton, they've been there for years 20-odd years,
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: and this is not exclusive to sport. It could be
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: clothing or another working world. Copyright's a very real thing,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: so you'd have to think that New Zealand rugby's on
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: pretty steady ground here, but who knows how the High
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Court rules, I guess. Where it gets pointy, isn't it,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: is the PNG Chiefs are going to be coming to
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: New Zealand to play the Warriors. They're going to be
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: selling merchandise. So it is really encroaching on an established brand.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Well, it is. And look, I thought about it a
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: few weeks ago. I'm like, well, what about the Blues
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and the New South Wales Blues? But not really in
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: direct competition. There is some similarities there, but they seem
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: to coexist pretty well. There doesn't tend to be a
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: lot of confusion there.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're also talking three games a year
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: as opposed to What is it, 26?
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: But, look, you know, let's say a Chiefs player gets
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: in trouble with the law and there's a headline online going,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: you know, Chiefs player arrested for da-da-da. Which Chiefs player
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: is it? There's a chance of reputational damage, I suppose,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: for the Chiefs rugby club if it's a PNG player
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: or even vice versa. So I'm surprised that the NRL
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: haven't engaged that clear. I don't think there's a case
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: there from New Zealand rugby. The IP trademark in Australia
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: has sort of warned players There might be an issue there, but, yeah,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I'll see you in court.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: And, look, there is a precedent for it. The Auckland Kings,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: the football team, they were forced to put a Z
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: on their name because the Sydney Kings existed. So that
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: was a long time ago, but there's one example where
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: one team has been forced to change their name, and
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: this could be another.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, if there's any– have we got rugby director? copyrighted?
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure we do. We might need to sort
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: that out.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, get onto that.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Direct rugby. Someone comes up with a direct rugby.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: We are taking off in a big way.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Speaking of taking off, I think that'll do us
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: for our Thursday edition of the podcast.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Well done there.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. Thanks so much, Kelly, for producing, and
• 23:50
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• 23:53
  Speaker 1: business to a higher level.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air, or online.
• 23:59
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• 24:02
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