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“Accountability today, justice tomorrow.” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: On today's pod, Derek Chauvin is found guilty of murdering
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: George Floyd. Representative Karen Bass joins to talk about renewed
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: hope that Congress might pass police reform. And Democrats reintroduce
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the Green New Deal as Joe Biden pledges to cut
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: carbon emissions in half ahead of today's Global Climate Summit.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: But first, check out a brand new episode of Alyssa
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Mastromonaco's YouTube series, Let's Break It Down, where she's joined
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: by our old boss, David Plouffe, to discuss all the
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: secrets and fun stories behind presidential travel on Air Force One.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: You can find it at youtube.com slash Crooked Media. I
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: can't wait to watch this one.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: It's great. I watched it last night.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, good. No, look at you. You already watched it. Okay, great.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: You know, it's possible, John. I have some time being
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: up in late hours of the night holding my phone
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: where I can consume content from the Crooked Media hose.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: That's true. That makes sense.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Let's get to the news. On Tuesday, a verdict was
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: reached in a case that fueled a global movement for
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: racial justice and the largest civil rights protests in American history.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: After 10 hours of deliberation, a Minneapolis jury found Officer
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Derek Chauvin guilty of second-degree murder, third-degree murder, and manslaughter
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: in the death of George Floyd. Chauvin is the second
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Minnesota police officer ever to be convicted of murdering someone
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: while on duty, and he will spend the next eight
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: weeks in jail awaiting his sentence, which could be up
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: to 40 years in prison. Floyd's family responded to the
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: ruling in an emotional press conference. Here's his younger brother,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Phil Anise.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: I feel relieved today that I finally have the opportunity
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: for hopefully.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Getting some sleep.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: A lot of days that I prayed and I hoped
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: and I was speaking everything into existence, I said I
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: have faith that he will be convicted. We won't be
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: able to breathe until you're able to breathe.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Today, we are able.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: To breathe again.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Dan, what was your reaction to the verdict?
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: You know, I watched it live as, you know, according
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: to ratings, millions of people in this country and around
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the world did. And the fact that we did that
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: sort of says everything about the significance of this case,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: the movement that was spawned from the murder of George Floyd,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: and all of the inherent problems in our criminal justice
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: system and systemic racism in our society. And for the
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: fact that as I'm sure you did and everyone else did,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: you watched it with great trepidation and suspense, that Chauvin
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: could have been acquitted of this. Because here you have
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: a case where the murder was committed in public on video,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: seen by the world, and yet people were still deeply
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: afraid that justice would not be done, that there would
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: not be a measure of justice, as Vice President Kamala
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Harris said.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: And it.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Speaks to how much work still needs to be done.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: And the other thing as I was watching it that
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about was all the millions of people
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: who took to the streets in the middle of a
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: pandemic to march in a protest against structural racism after
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: the murder of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and so
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: many others. What would it say to them if in
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: this case, the justice system could not truly do the
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: bare fucking minimum of of convicting someone who committed the
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: crime on video. What would it say to that? Would
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: that be a message to all those people that progress
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: was impossible? And so I think this is relief more
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: than celebration by any stretch of the imagination because there's
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: so much more work to do and so many more
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: turns in this case, as you said, just with the
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: sentencing and then the other officers who were involved. But
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I think the way the whole thing played out sort
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: of bespeaks the courage of the Floyd family, the people
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: who got involved because of it, and all of the
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: problems that still exist within our criminal justice system and
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: within our society.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was first relieved by the verdict, then sad
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: that the outcome had ever been in doubt, and then
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: angry that in order to convict a police officer, it
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: had to be a case where the murder was filmed, right?
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Because if 17-year-old Darnella Frazier hadn't held her phone up,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: all we would have had is that Minneapolis Police Department
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: statement that read, man dies after medical incident during police interaction, right?
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: So it had to be a case where the murder
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: was filmed. It had to be a case where Chauvin's
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: fellow police officers were willing to testify against him. It
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: had to be a case where the victim was literally
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: begging for his life while slowly being choked to death
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: for nine minutes. So what happens when the next murder
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: isn't filmed? What happens when the facts of the next
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: case are in dispute? What happens when the police refuse
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: to speak out against their own, which is usually the case?
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: And I think all that speaks to the need, like
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: you said, for transformational change in policing.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: And what happens if the attorney general is not someone
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: like Keith Ellison, who is a progressive, who ran on,
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: in part, police reform and doing better in situations like this?
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: The outcome was in doubt in a situation where there
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: were factors that gave us better reason to believe that
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: you could get the right outcome in the trial than
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: there would be in almost any other case in any
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: other part of the country. And that's what's so alarming
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: about this.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, David Graham wrote in The Atlantic, the Chauvin conviction
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: is the exception that proves the rule, which I think
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: is the right way to sum that up. It seemed
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: like everyone with any kind of platform responded to the
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: verdict on Tuesday. Activists, politicians, celebrities, athletes, brands, The reactions
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: range from incredibly moving to incredibly cringeworthy. I won't spend
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: time on the latter. Just do a quick search for
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi or the Las Vegas Raiders. Minnesota Attorney General
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Keith Ellison, whose office led the prosecution of the case,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: reflected the sentiment of many of us when he said, quote,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I would not call today's verdict justice, but it is accountability,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: which is the first step towards justice. President Biden and
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Vice President Harris also addressed the nation. Harris said that, quote,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: a measure of justice isn't the same as equal justice.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: We must still reform the system. And here's a clip
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: from Biden's remarks.
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: So we can't leave this moment or look away thinking
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: our work is done.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: We have to look at it.
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: We have to look as we did for those nine
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: minutes and 29 seconds.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: We have to listen. I can't breathe.
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: I can't breathe. Those are George Floyd's last words. We
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: can't let those words die with him. We have to
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: keep hearing those words. We must not turn away. We
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: can't turn away. We have a chance to begin to
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: change the trajectory in this country.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: So it's highly unusual for the president and the vice
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: president to speak after a ruling like this. It's even
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: more unusual for the president to weigh in before the verdict,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: like Biden did when he told reporters that the evidence
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: against Chauvin was overwhelming. And he was praying for the
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: right verdict. Why do you think he did that?
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Let's take him separately. The question about weighing in before,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: which is definitely in violation of every piece of guidance
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: that every person who works in the White House Counsel's
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Office told him to do. But I think he answered
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: it because to not say the evidence was overwhelming here
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: would be dishonest. And I think a, you know, sort
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: of a violation of the conversations and the relationships that
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: he's been having with the Floyd family and activists ever
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: since this day. I mean, it is, you know, sometimes...
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: legal guidance flies in the face of what is patently
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: obvious and true and needs to be said. And so
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: I think that's why he did it. I promise you
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: there were several meetings. Many emails were sent in the
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: White House staff after he did it, but I think
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: it was the right thing to do.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I also think when we're looking for evidence of
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: change and the way things have changed over time, you
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: and I and Tommy and Ben, we're all talking about this.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine if Barack Obama did something like that?
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: There would have been all those same emails in the
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: White House and warnings from the White House Counsel's Office.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: And I wonder if all those years ago, he probably
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: would have listened to those warnings instead of doing what
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he would have wanted to do, which is
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: say exactly what Joe Biden said.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Well, he very much did after the acquittal of Michael- Dr.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Trayvon, right?
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Well, Trayvon. Well, so it's happened both ways. We don't
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: have to run through all the history, but he spoke
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: after the acquittal in the Ferguson case. back in 2014
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: and answered it with language that was very much in
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: line with what the attorneys would want him to say.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: And the reason he did that is there was a
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: pending federal investigation and he was abiding by what that
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: guidance was. And people were very disappointed in what he
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: said because it was not what he necessarily felt. He
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: could speak to it as a person and a black
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: man in America was speaking to it as the person
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: to whom the Justice Department technically reports. And so I
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: think that has changed and how you address these things
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: has changed. And it's also, this is some of the
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: barriers that Trump stumbled into that have changed, I think,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: how you think about what presidents can and can't say.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: And for many cases, when Trump did, it was absolutely terrible.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: This was the case where I think Biden did the
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: right thing. The reason to go out and speak afterwards
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: is because of the movement that the murder of George
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Floyd sparked and what it meant and how people got
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: involved because of it. And my assumption is that they
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: would have spoken regardless of the result. If you had
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: gotten the horrible, incorrect result, if there had been some
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: sort of acquittal in the face of all of the evidence,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: speaking out was the right thing to do. And I
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: think it's very notable that they spoke together. The president
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: and vice president almost never speak together. That is not
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: a thing that happens often, particularly not in a nationally
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: televised address. And the fact that you had a black
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: woman speaking about this in this moment was an incredibly
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: powerful image. And I think it speaks a lot about
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: the relationship that I think the two of them have
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: and the role she's playing in the White House.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that movement. You know, listening to Biden
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: talk in that clip about the chance to change the
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: trajectory of this country. What, if anything, do you think
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: has changed about America since George Floyd was murdered? And
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: what hasn't?
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a really hard one, because definitely,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: you know, you see this in public opinion research, that
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: awareness of just the embarrassing idea of structural racism in
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: this country has gone up. More white people will talk
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: about it. They will cite it as a reason for this.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: The acknowledgement about the existence of the problem of police
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: violence against black and brown Americans, awareness of that and
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: opposition to that has grown significantly over time. You've seen,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: although it's come back some since the height of the protest,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: acceptance of support for the Black Lives Matter movement has
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: grown incredibly since 2014. What hasn't changed is the way
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: in which the Republican Party weaponizes these disputes to try
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: to run on a white nationalist message, essentially. And that
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: with these issues become more, even when you have brands
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: and football teams, and you are exactly right, every brand,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's almost like it's sort of incredible. Like
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: every sports team in America felt obligated to put out
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: a statement Yeah. When this happened, every brand. And so
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: that like in a way that is progress, right? That
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: use like people, it is, that is now the consensus
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: position among brands and sports teams and other entities that are,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: they try very hard to be like removed from politics.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: You know, and you can see it to sort of
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I think most explicitly in sports in when the NBA
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: finals were played in the bubble, it was played on
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: a court that said black lives matter. And that would
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: not happen without this movement. But on the other end,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: and we'll talk about the reaction on the right on this,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: there was always a backlash to these things and a
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: radicalization among the far right. And that makes it hard
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: to make the progress you need to make because the
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: other side is becoming more entrenched in their views and
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: sort of protecting the system as it exists. Yeah.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, there's both substantive and attitudinal changes that
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: have taken place in the country since George Floyd was murdered.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Like we just said, you saw the largest mass protest
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: movement in U.S. history. The New York Times pointed out
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: that 170 Confederate symbols were renamed or removed since then.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: It's part of the reason that Donald Trump was defeated
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: and Biden was elected. And one of the consequences of
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Biden being elected that was announced yesterday is the Department
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: of Justice is now once again engaging in pattern and
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: practice investigations. This went into the Minneapolis Police Department, which
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: could result in a consent decree, which could, you know,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: transform policing within that department that used to happen under
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: the Obama administration. Of course, it did not under the
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Trump administration. We had Samson Yangwe on here last week
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: talking about all kinds of transformational local reforms, state reforms, budgets,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: police budgets that have been cut. I talked to Savante Myrick,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: the mayor of Ithaca, a month ago. He was on
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: here talking about disbanding his police force in Ithaca, retraining
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: unarmed public safety officers. And of course, there were these
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: attitudinal concerns shifts that you were talking about in public opinion,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: white Americans have become more likely than in recent years
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: to support the Black Lives Matter movement, to say that
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: racial discrimination is a big problem, and to say that
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: excessive police force disproportionately harms black Americans. Now, none of
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: this is to say, as you pointed out, that systemic
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: racism isn't still deeply ingrained in almost every single aspect
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: of American life. We're sitting here talking as 20-year-old Daunte
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Wright's family, including his son, is burying him today. A
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: video of Chicago police killing 13-year-old Adam Toledo was released
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: a few days ago, hours after the verdict in the
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Chauvin case. A Columbus police officer shot and killed 16-year-old
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Makai Bryant. Police are killing black and brown people in
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: America every single day. And of course, there's always tremendous backlash.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: There is always fear and cowardice on the part of
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: even well-meaning elected officials. And, you know, I don't think
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: anyone should have to feel good or proud or optimistic
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: about where the country is right now. I have problems
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: doing that myself. You just have to believe that we
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: can change it. Um, and you, you have to believe
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: that when enough people pour into the streets for enough time,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: it can start to change minds and attitudes. And, um,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: especially among the younger generations and that's not everything, but
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: it's something, you know, it's, it's a start. Um, and
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I think, I think that's what this represents and what
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: these past months have represented is that it is a,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: it is a start. It is a step towards progress,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: but progress doesn't happen unless people, people stay involved and
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: stay loud and stay on the streets. Um, So Congresswoman
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Bass is going to join us soon to talk about
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: passing more systemic reform in Congress. But I do want
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: to touch on first the point that you made about
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: the predictably horrifying and idiotic response from the right. Here
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: are Fox News stars Greg Gutfield and Tucker Carlson on
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: the verdict.
• 15:37
  Speaker 6: I'm glad that he was found guilty on all charges.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: Even if he might not be guilty of all charges.
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: I am glad that he is guilty of all charges
• 15:47
  Speaker 6: because I want a verdict that keeps this country from.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Going up in flames.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 15:54
  Speaker 7: No.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: No politician or media figure has the right to intimidate
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: a jury. And no political party has the right to
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: impose a different standard of justice on its own supporters.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Those things are unacceptable in America. All of them are
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: happening now. If they continue to happen, decent, productive people
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: will leave. The country as we knew it will be over.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: So we must.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Stop this current insanity. It's an attack on civilization.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: An attack on civilization. So that's what the most popular
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: cable news channel in America is saying about the verdict.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I didn't I did enjoy the other panelists on Greg
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Gutfeld's show. Just can't even contain it. Just, oh my God,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I can't believe we're going through this. Even the panel,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: it was even too much for them.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: America will be over. That is what Tucker Carlson said.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: America will be over. I feel like there's only so
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: many times you can say that before people are like, America,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: still here. For better or worse, frankly, but still here.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does seem like it was over-torqued even for them, right?
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Like they're very good at instilling fear and anger in
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: their audiences and sort of whipping people up. But I
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: don't quite know if, especially with a case like what
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: we saw with the Chauvin case, that that really does
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: the trick, at least among people who are not already,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: you know, just huge racist Tucker fans.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I think they were basically throwing a temper tantrum because
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: they were so jacked up for wall to wall looting
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: coverage for one for to get a bad outcome. And
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: for one person somewhere in America, uh, probably in Portland,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: to throw a brick through a window. And then it
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: would be Antifa and the Republicans would talk about all
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: these bills they're trying to pass in states like Florida
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: to crack down on protesters because they definitely care about
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: freedom and hate cancel culture. And so it was just
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: like they didn't know what to do. It was like
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: it rained on their parade. And so they lashed out
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: everywhere they could in the most absurd but on brand
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: ways possible.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do want to talk about the bills that
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: have been passed by Republicans and proposed by Republicans in
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: states across the country that are specifically targeting protesters. Legislatures
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: in Oklahoma and Iowa have passed bills granting immunity to
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: drivers who hit protesters with their cars. The Kentucky State
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Senate passed a bill that would send people to jail
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: for using, quote, offensive or derisive words towards a police officer.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: And Florida Governor Ron DeSantis just signed a bill that
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: would make tearing down a Confederate monument punishable by up
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: to 15 years in prison. So, like, obviously this is
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: all monstrous and terrifying, but what do you think of
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: the right-wing Republican reaction as a political strategy?
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: This is the manifestation of the, you know, we talk
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: about this all the time, the decades-long Republican message that
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the Democrats, the liberals, Republicans, people of color, Hollywood, ironically enough,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: big tech are coming to take political power away from
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: white people. That's what this is about. It's about instilling
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: that fear. It is about protecting you. It seems like
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: 100 years ago, but it wasn't during the campaign, all
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: the crazy Trump ads and Republican ads about looters coming
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: to your home and destroying things. It's Things are so
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: dangerous that we have to give you the power to
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: run people over to protect yourself. That's how it is, right?
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: It is this image of America that looks more like
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Walking Dead, but instead of zombies, it's liberal elites and
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: everything else. It is about instituting fear in your base
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: to keep them fired up to turn out. That's what
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: they've always done. It has a checkered record of success
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: over the years, and you need to do more than
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: that to win. but that is what is at play here.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: They need to find these things because Joe Biden does
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: not scare their voters in the way that Barack Obama
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: did or Hillary Clinton did or they've tried to make
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris do. They're looking for other ways to get
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: people in their base fired up and afraid that someone
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: is coming for their political power, for their culture, for
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: their community.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I do think, once again, much like the right-wing reaction
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: on television, that these Republican politicians who've passed these bills
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: have over-torqued things just a bit and may have gone
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: a little bit too far, even politically. I think if
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: you talk to the median American voter, they are probably...
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: one of these people whose attitudes may have been changed
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: that we were talking about in the polling, you know,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: more likely to support the Black Lives Matter movement, more
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: likely to say that racial discrimination is a big problem,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: more likely to say that excessive police force disproportionately harms
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: black Americans. Those people probably have, those same people probably
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: have the view that they don't like looting. They don't like,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: you know, destruction to property. They worry about all that
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff, right? And that's probably like the median
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: American voter. And so Republicans see that and they think,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: all right, we want them to think more about looting
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: and destruction than we do about systemic racism. And so
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: we're going to, you know, Fox is going to run
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: their coverage and their B roll of fires in Portland
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: and all that bullshit. And they're going to try to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: get people to think about that. But then I think
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: when you're, when you pass legislation that says, if you
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: go out there and protest, then we're going to give,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: we're going to give cops even more power to potentially
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: harm you. That we're going to give the state more power.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: That if someone hits you with their car because you're
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: out in the street protesting, which at one point, I
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: think one in 10, a poll over the summer said
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: one in 10 Americans had participated in the protests around
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: George Floyd's policing. That is a lot of Americans. And
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: so now you have a lot more Americans who have
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: had the experience of either participating in a protest or
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: seeing a protest. And the idea that there are laws
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: now where someone can hit you with their car and
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: be granted immunity because that's what Republicans want them to
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: be granted with. And so they're saying it's OK to
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: hit you with your car. I don't know that it's
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: going to work as well as they think it might.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Like always, we have agency in this. We Democrats, which
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: is it only isn't going to work. if we make
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: them pay a price for it by talking about the
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: laws they are not passing. What real problems are they
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: not solving when they are trying to address fake problems?
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And that's a huge part of it. But I think
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: we often, and we are very guilty of this, is
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: we think of Republican politicians as these people who are
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: in on the joke. They get that what's happening on
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Fox News is bullshit. And they are sort of masterminds
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: behind the scenes, kind of like pulling the puppet strings
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: on the Fox News viewers. But we have to remember
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: is the primary source of information for all of these
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Republican politicians, and I don't just mean state legislators in Oklahoma,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I mean Kevin McCarthy and Republicans in the Senate, is
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Fox News. They are completely high on their own supply.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: They believe most of this bullshit. And so they actually
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: think they are– this isn't even some grand thing as
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: they have been convinced by Tucker Carlson through this cycle
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: of absurd racist bullshit that starts at Fox News that
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: these are real problems and that they're addressing them. which
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: is how they end up in this situation.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: And like you said, the point of what I was
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: saying is that Democrats should not be afraid of talking
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: about this legislation and railing against this kind of legislation
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: just because some consultant told you, well, you know, Republicans
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: have an advantage on law and order issues. Because while
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: there may be some kind of advantage on law and
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: order somewhere, Passing this kind of legislation is not it.
• 23:47
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: And I think that you're right. Talking about that Republicans
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: are doing this and not solving other problems and not
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: working to solve other problems, I do think could give
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Democrats a political advantage. And I don't think they should
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: be scared of it at the very least. When we
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: come back, Congressional Black Caucus Chair Karen Bass will talk
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: to Dan about the latest developments in the fight to
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: pass the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Joining us now is Congresswoman Karen Bass, the chair of
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: the Congressional Black Caucus. Congresswoman, welcome back to Positive America.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 24:24
  Speaker 7: Thanks for having me on again.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Of course. I just wanted to start by asking you,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: as someone who has been an advocate on policing reform
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: and racial justice issues for your entire career, what your
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: reaction was as you watched the verdict in the Derek
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Chauvin trial.
• 24:39
  Speaker 7: Just one word, relief, relief, relief. I will tell you
• 24:44
  Speaker 7: that the whole day and leading up to the verdict,
• 24:47
  Speaker 7: since they went into deliberation, I was just having flashbacks
• 24:51
  Speaker 7: on 1992. That's where we were so sure of what
• 24:56
  Speaker 7: a verdict would be because it was so obvious what
• 24:58
  Speaker 7: had happened to Rodney King that, of course, they would
• 25:01
  Speaker 7: come back with a guilty verdict. And to see this
• 25:05
  Speaker 7: jury do the right thing, all three, was very positive. However,
• 25:11
  Speaker 7: I will not rest until there is a sentencing that's
• 25:14
  Speaker 7: done because in the rare cases where the verdict is
• 25:18
  Speaker 7: correct because there was actually charges made in a trial,
• 25:22
  Speaker 7: the judge then turns around and says, ah, and gives
• 25:27
  Speaker 7: a slap on the wrist. And so I want to
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: see Derek Chauvin get the absolute maximum for torturing George
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: Floyd to death.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, your experience and you
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: have written eloquently about what it was like to watch
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: that Rodney King verdict really puts in place, I think,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: for a lot of people who may be new to
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: these issues or sort of focusing on structural racism and
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: the problems with police violence against black and brown Americans
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: since the murder of George Floyd, that this is a
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: question of that it is progress, but there was a
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: lot more to do. How do you think, you know,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: that this changes the dynamic around trying to get something
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: through Congress like your George Floyd Justice and Policing Act?
• 26:12
  Speaker 7: Well, I will tell you that we have a small
• 26:15
  Speaker 7: window because, you know, in our American culture, we have
• 26:18
  Speaker 7: very short attention spans. And we have to strike now,
• 26:23
  Speaker 7: which means we have to move our discussions from informal
• 26:27
  Speaker 7: discussions to formal negotiations, make a deal. and put a
• 26:33
  Speaker 7: bill on President Biden's desk. And I believe that we
• 26:37
  Speaker 7: need to do that in the next couple of weeks.
• 26:39
  Speaker 7: And there is no reason why we should not.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, you know, you have passed this piece of legislation
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: in the House twice. It has been stalled in the Senate,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: remains stalled in the Senate, depends upon getting Republican votes
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: because of the continued existence of the filibuster. Do you
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: have renewed optimism or additional optimism that you could make
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: more progress now since the verdict? There's been reports about
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Senator Tim Scott talking about bipartisan negotiations or at least conversations,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: where does that stand and what are sort of the
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: issues that remain to be dealt with?
• 27:09
  Speaker 7: Well, I absolutely have additional hope. Not renewed, additional, because
• 27:17
  Speaker 7: I had felt strong before. And Senator Scott and I
• 27:22
  Speaker 7: have been in communications, Senator Booker, you know, the Republicans
• 27:27
  Speaker 7: in the Problem Solvers Caucus, Josh Gottheimer, who heads it
• 27:32
  Speaker 7: up on the Democratic side. So the next step is
• 27:36
  Speaker 7: for conversations to be formal and us to look at
• 27:41
  Speaker 7: the big issues. And so one of the biggest issues
• 27:43
  Speaker 7: is qualified immunity. Well, let me just say, the biggest
• 27:46
  Speaker 7: issues are based on holding officers accountable. Derek Chauvin was
• 27:54
  Speaker 7: looking at the girl, because she was a girl, who
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: was taping him. he didn't have a problem looking at
• 28:01
  Speaker 7: the camera because.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: He didn't feel he had a care to worry about.
• 28:07
  Speaker 7: And so making the profession of policing, raising it up
• 28:13
  Speaker 7: to like any other profession, could you imagine a doctor
• 28:17
  Speaker 7: that didn't care if he or she went in and
• 28:20
  Speaker 7: operated and didn't care whether or not the person came
• 28:24
  Speaker 7: out okay or left an instrument in the person's body?
• 28:27
  Speaker 7: They were accountable. And the public knows. There's malpractice lawsuits.
• 28:33
  Speaker 7: There's state registries where you can look up to see
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: whether your doctor has been sued. And policing needs to
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: be in the same way. If police officers thought that
• 28:47
  Speaker 7: they would be held accountable, maybe we wouldn't have so
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: many officer-involved shootings. Dan, you know since March 29th was
• 28:55
  Speaker 7: the day the trial began, There have been over 60
• 28:58
  Speaker 7: officer-involved shootings. Since George Floyd was murdered May 25th, there
• 29:03
  Speaker 7: have been over 100 that have resulted in death. At
• 29:07
  Speaker 7: some point, we need to take a break in our
• 29:11
  Speaker 7: country and say, why do police in the United States
• 29:15
  Speaker 7: are involved in so many shootings? Why?
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: You brought up the issue of qualified immunity, which was the...
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Not the only, but perhaps the primary sticking point the
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: last time there was a debate about this in the Senate.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: If something is going to get through with 10 Republican votes,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming that there has to be some compromise on
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: that issue. If so, what do you where are you
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: willing to compromise and what red lines do you have?
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: Well, you know, I won't go into the details of
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: what we're talking about, but to me, there has to
• 29:49
  Speaker 7: be qualified immunity and officers and departments have to be
• 29:53
  Speaker 7: held responsible.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: In the process of trying to get this passed, is
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: there more that President Biden, Vice President Harris could do
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: to raise the issue? Is there more that our listeners
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: could do to help get people active and focused on this?
• 30:07
  Speaker 7: Well, your listeners, absolutely. Your listeners can raise the issue
• 30:12
  Speaker 7: on their social media that they want to see the
• 30:15
  Speaker 7: George Floyd Justice and Policing Act pass, and they want
• 30:18
  Speaker 7: the Senate to act. And I know that this is national.
• 30:23
  Speaker 7: And so you should contact your senators and ask them.
• 30:27
  Speaker 7: Where are they on this? Do they understand that this
• 30:30
  Speaker 7: is a serious issue in our country? And I think
• 30:35
  Speaker 7: that that would go a very long way.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: As you point out, the problem of police violence and
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: officer shootings continues. It is happening all the time. In
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: addition to what can be done legislatively, which I know
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: you're working very hard on, what are the things you're
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: looking for from President Biden or Attorney General Garland that
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: can be done absent legislation to begin to address some
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: of these problems at least?
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: Yes, and you saw the Attorney General act in just
• 31:06
  Speaker 7: the last few days by reinstituting the consent decrees, which
• 31:10
  Speaker 7: essentially allow the federal government to supervise a police department
• 31:15
  Speaker 7: that is very problematic. As a matter of fact, he
• 31:18
  Speaker 7: said he was going to initiate an investigation of the
• 31:21
  Speaker 7: Minneapolis Police Department which I will tell you, they have
• 31:24
  Speaker 7: an outstanding police chief there who has welcomed the investigation.
• 31:29
  Speaker 7: And so that is something that can happen. And then yesterday,
• 31:32
  Speaker 7: of course, Vanita Gupta was confirmed. And I know Kristen
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: Clark will be confirmed very soon. Both of them are
• 31:41
  Speaker 7: going to be outstanding. Both Vanita and Kristen, I worked
• 31:47
  Speaker 7: with last year on the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act.
• 31:50
  Speaker 7: And I know that they will be there. They will
• 31:53
  Speaker 7: be there ready to reconstitute the Civil Rights Division because
• 31:59
  Speaker 7: who knows what condition the Trump administration left it in.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I would imagine not great would be the condition. Exactly.
• 32:08
  Speaker 7: As a matter of fact, there might not be anybody home.
• 32:11
  Speaker 7: I'm not sure. But in terms of the president, though,
• 32:17
  Speaker 7: You know, the president's office, I mean, the president's administration
• 32:23
  Speaker 7: has been terrific. They have not been directly involved, but
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: we have been talking to them regularly, keeping them updated.
• 32:31
  Speaker 7: So I don't think there's anything more. I'm certainly hoping
• 32:36
  Speaker 7: that when the president gives his state of the union address,
• 32:41
  Speaker 7: that he will mention and lift up this issue.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: As.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Per usual, Republicans have been outlandish and ridiculous in their
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: criticisms of your bill. Marjorie Taylor Greene, a leader in
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: the Republican Party these days, I guess, said that it
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: would castrate the police and lead to lawlessness. This has
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: been all across Fox News and right-wing media. What is
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: your response to that charge that this is undermining policing
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: in America and making us less safe? And feel free
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: to just laugh if you want. Exactly.
• 33:20
  Speaker 7: I mean, from what I have seen of her, I
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: doubt very seriously if she knows anything about the bill,
• 33:28
  Speaker 7: has read anything about the bill at all. So I
• 33:35
  Speaker 7: would have to disregard her words. And I will tell
• 33:38
  Speaker 7: you that our conversations with her colleagues in her party
• 33:43
  Speaker 7: are have been extremely constructive, open, and supportive.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a positive sign that she's maybe
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: the exception, not the rule on this.
• 33:52
  Speaker 7: I actually think she's a bit of a caricature on
• 33:55
  Speaker 7: both sides of that.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Before I let you go, is there anything else I
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: didn't ask you about or something else you want our
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: listeners to know about your legislation and the work you've
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: been doing?
• 34:06
  Speaker 7: Well, I think in our country, we need to take
• 34:10
  Speaker 7: a moment and say, What is policing in the United States?
• 34:15
  Speaker 7: Why is it so militaristic? Why do police officers immediately
• 34:21
  Speaker 7: jump to shoot? I mean, the young man that is
• 34:25
  Speaker 7: being laid to rest today, Dante Wright, you know, I mean,
• 34:28
  Speaker 7: they stopped him because his tags expired. In a state
• 34:32
  Speaker 7: where many people's tags expired because of COVID, the Department
• 34:36
  Speaker 7: of Motor Vehicles has essentially been shut down. I never
• 34:40
  Speaker 7: knew it was against the law to have air freshener
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: on my mirror. Obviously they didn't need to ever stop him.
• 34:48
  Speaker 7: The police officer who had been on the force for
• 34:50
  Speaker 7: 26 years made a mistake between her handgun and her taser.
• 34:56
  Speaker 7: So this is a moment, I mean, I obviously want
• 34:59
  Speaker 7: the bill to pass, but so much more needs to
• 35:02
  Speaker 7: be done. And it's really a moment for us to
• 35:04
  Speaker 7: stop and take stock of policing in the United States
• 35:08
  Speaker 7: I've been working on these issues for over 47 years.
• 35:14
  Speaker 7: And by the way, I read a document today that
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: was written by President Truman talking about police brutality. This
• 35:22
  Speaker 7: has gone on for generations. When will it become unacceptable
• 35:27
  Speaker 7: for so many Americans to die? Dan, if this was
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: another country, we would be up in arms about human rights.
• 35:34
  Speaker 7: Why isn't the killing of Black people on a regular
• 35:38
  Speaker 7: basis by law enforcement viewed as a human rights issue
• 35:42
  Speaker 7: when it happens in the United States?
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: That is very well said. That is exactly right. Congresswoman
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Karen Bass, thank you so much for joining us. And
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: thank you for your leadership on this issue and so
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: many other things.
• 35:53
  Speaker 7: Thank you for having me on. All right.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Today is Earth Day. And actually, some of the latest
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: climate news is pretty good or at least potentially good.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I would say the climate policy news is good.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: The state of the planet is not good.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: No, that's bad. That's very bad. But the news about
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: what we're going to do about it is potentially good.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give it a potentially. Joe Biden is
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: convening a virtual global summit. of over 40 nations today,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: where he's expected to announce that the U.S. will commit
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: to cutting emissions levels in half by 2030, a significant
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: increase from past commitments in an attempt to convince other
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: countries to do the same. About half of the president's
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: American jobs plan is devoted to clean energy investments, electric cars,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: public transportation, clean water, and climate research and development. And
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: in Congress, Ed Markey and AOC formally reintroduced the Green
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: New Deal on Tuesday as specific legislation as opposed to
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: what it used to be, which is a non-binding resolution.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: They also introduced legislation for a civilian climate corps that
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: would put 1.5 million Americans to work on clean energy projects,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: an idea that's also included in Biden's jobs plan. So
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: lots of very big and exciting climate proposals out there.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: What do you think can actually get done? Let's start
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: with Biden and his team, what they can do just
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: without Congress.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Well, first they can, and they've already started getting officially
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: back into the Paris agreement. That is a very big deal.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: It was a huge problem for global leadership. The United
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: States was one of like three countries that were out
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: of the deal. I think it was like us, Syria
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: and North Korea, or maybe.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: North Korea got in the deal. It wasn't a good
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: crowd to be in.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Yes. It's not a list you want to be on generally.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: And so getting back in is very important. Getting it
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: is only the first step to actually achieving ourselves what
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: our goals are and getting the rest of the world
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: to do it. Although there is some hopeful signs. If
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: you're going to have any chance of getting China and
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: India to do more, the United States has to be leading.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: And with President Biden and his climate team, they absolutely
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: can do that. The second part is using our regulatory
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: authority on carbon and for clean air and clean water.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: that is happening that begins with reversing a lot of
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: what the Trump administration reversed from President Obama and then
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: building on that with even more aggressive and climate-friendly regulations
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: that is in place. And I think it's worth noting
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: the team that President Biden has put together on climate
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: really is an all-star team. A lot of people like
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: John Kerry, Gina McCarthy, people who took jobs that were
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: you know, sort of theoretically below where you would think
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: they would have jobs because they care so passionately about this.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: And it really is an all-star team that's very important,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: which allows you to operate on all these different fronts.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, the last part which we'll talk
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: about is what you can do legislatively because there's real
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: progress that can be done with executive actions and regulatory authority,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: but it's not enough and it is very dependent on
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: the Supreme Court not being planted hating assholes, which is
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: not something I would bet on.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: So, Yeah. I mean, look, they say personnel is policy
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: and there's a lot of climate nerds in that administration.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: And they're not just in the traditional areas like the
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: EPA or the energy department or like, you know, we
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: had a climate czar. It's basically in almost every single
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: department within the White House and in the cabinet. There
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: are even even, you know, agencies that you wouldn't think
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: have to or traditionally didn't have to do necessarily directly
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: with climate. And there are people who've been working on
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: climate issues and who have been embraced by climate activists
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: for their entire lives now working in the White House
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: and trying to basically, you know, they call it a
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: whole of government effort to combat climate change and use
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: basically the power of the federal government and the purchasing
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: power of the federal government. The federal government obviously owns
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of property, owns a lot of real estate,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: owns a lot of cars. You have all of that
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: now just geared towards climate change, which is something new.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: What has happened to us? We spent years working aggressively
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: to take the phrase whole of government effort out of
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: every press release, speech.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I would never write something stupid.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: And here you are just now you're free of the cabinet.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: You're just on a podcast.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: I see Ron Klain tweeting it all the time about
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: the vaccination effort. And I was like, yeah, I guess
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: that's what it is. It's a whole government effort. It
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: seems like it would be like raised at a bilat
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: I think to the perfect example on personnel being policy
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: and the focus on climate is Brian Deese is the
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: person in charge of economic policy in the White House.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: His last job in the Obama administration.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Was– Big climate nerd.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Well, he was the climate advisor. He ran climate policy
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: in the White House. So putting a climate person in
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: charge of the economy is something that 10 years ago,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: 15 years ago would have caused everyone to freak out
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: as terrible politics. What are you doing? And now it's
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: being leaned into in a very aggressive way. And you
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: can see it in the makeup of the American Jobs
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Plan that Biden is trying to pass. Climate is infrastructure.
• 41:08
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: The planet is infrastructure.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: When we were working on the second inaugural address, Barack
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Obama decided that he wanted four big themes in the
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: address around policy. And one of the four themes he
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: wanted was climate change. He wanted to address climate change.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: And I told Heather Zykle that, who at the time
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: was running climate and energy stuff for us. And she
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: literally broke into tears on the phone because she said,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: do you know how, she's like, I didn't fight for
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: this though. She's like, do you know how, how, how
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: hard I've had to fight in the government to make
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: sure that we talk about climate everywhere we can. And
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: now the president has just decided that a fourth of
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: the inaugural address is going to be devoted to her.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: She's like, what happened? What did I miss? I was like,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: all right, thank him. So that's, we've come a long way.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: We've come a long way, but we shouldn't get too
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: excited because as you mentioned, look, Like these the Biden's
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: announcement that they were going to cut emissions levels in
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: half by 2030. There is no way to get that
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: done without legislation. There is no executive action. There is
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: no sort of global climate agreement that can get that
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: done in the United States side without really robust legislation.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: And obviously, that's much more of a challenge. Markey and
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: AOC said that their Green New Deal legislation is bigger
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: and bolder than what Biden has proposed. So you have
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: progressives that want, you know, a bigger piece of legislation. Meanwhile,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: most Republicans still don't even believe in climate change. The
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: last vote they scheduled on it was in 2019 when
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell put the Green New Deal resolution on the
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: floor to make moderate Democrats uncomfortable. Though I guess there's
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: been some progress since then. Lindsey Graham announced the other
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: week that he does believe climate change is real. Congratulations
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: to Lindsey Graham. And House Republicans are convening their own
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: three-day energy summit this week, Dan, where they're going to
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: propose climate solutions like technological innovation and tree planting. Tree planting.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Do you think the politics of climate change have shifted
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: over time? And where are they today? How have they
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: shifted over time?
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Lindsey Graham believes in climate change for approximately eight minutes
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: immediately after his most recent election. And then he goes
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: right back to being a climate change denier as he
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: smells a primary challenge coming. Because in 2009, Lindsey Graham
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: basically was an adjunct member of the White House staff.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: He came over to the West Wing so often to
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: try to find ways for he– and John McCain to
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: work with Barack Obama on climate change. That was a
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: very different Lindsey Graham than the one who transformed into
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump's caddy. So we'll put that aside for a second.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: So I'm not putting a lot of hope in the
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: future of the planet in Lindsey Graham's adherence to this
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: quasi-new position of his. The politics of climate change have
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: definitely changed, if you will. I think it is... fair
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: to say that Joe Biden would not be president today
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: without his climate plan. And what I think is so–
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: like you can see the politics of climate in this
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: very clear way. Joe Biden in the primary ran on
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: a climate change plan that by historical standards was quite
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: progressive but was more conservative on climate than most of
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: the other people running for president and certainly much more
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: conservative than Elizabeth Warren, Jay Inslee, Bernie Sanders, et cetera.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: And When he won the nomination, which he did with
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: a relative ease, he swept Super Tuesday, the states that
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: came afterwards, he could have seen that as validation of
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: his choice to be more conservative on climate. But instead,
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: working with Bernie Sanders, he formed a policy task force.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: He put the author of the Green New Deal, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: and John Kerry in charge of the climate task force.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: And he moved to the left pretty significantly on climate
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: in the general election. And he also advertised– somewhat significantly
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: and uniquely on climate to young people. And a lot
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: of the polling that we saw that we worked on,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: some change research polls showed that the message that was
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: most likely to get young voters who were either lukewarm
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: on Biden or lukewarm on voting was climate. And obviously
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: in a race as close as this was in the
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: states that put him over the top electorally, anything and
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: everything can be attributed to the win. But I think
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: if Joe Biden had not been willing to move on
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: climate and then talk about climate. You know, if you
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: remember his positive American interview, he was on for 30
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: minutes and I bet he spent 25 minutes talking about
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: climate change. Yeah. So what I'm saying is that interview
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: delivered the presidency is what I'm saying.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: I was, I was hoping that was the point that
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: you were getting.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: I would eventually get there.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Here's a question. Why do you think it is that
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: both Democrats and Republicans love talking about the green new deal?
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: They can't both be right about the politics.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: They can both be right about the politics.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, tell me how.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Well, we live in a polarized society where we are–
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: we're heading into a midterm and the first step in
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: a midterm is firing up your base. Climate change and
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: the quote-unquote Green New Deal fires up Democrats, gets young
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: voters involved. The absurd false caricatures and conspiracy theories of
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: the Green New Deal gets Republican voters involved. fired up.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: And so this is like, we tend to think of politics, you.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Know, the end of cows, right? Farting cows, the end
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: of no more hamburgers planes, right? You're no more cars,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Ben hamburgers, right?
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: All that kind of stuff.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: And that, that works, that works with their voters. And,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously, you know, there's a point you make
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: all the time. It was the core of the wilderness
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: is persuasion still matters. Democrats took the house by such
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: a large margin and, because they were able to persuade
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of people to vote for Democrats who had
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: voted for Trump in 2016. But to even get to
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: that point, you have to get turnout from your presidential
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: year voters up in a midterm. And so the overwhelming
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: victory of Democrats in the House, the huge popular vote margin,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: the 40-some seats we won was because you had both.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: You had near presidential level turnout among your voters, and
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: you persuaded some voters. So the predicate for success in
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: the midterm is turnout. And This issue works for both.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of political analysis still adheres
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: to a very outdated and anachronistic model where an issue
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: is either good or bad because you're only viewing it
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: through the prism of that small group of swing voters.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: But an issue now in this day and age can
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: be good for both sides.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And we should talk about, I mean, so there's
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: a brand new data for progress poll out about the
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Green New Deal and about climate. And this is how
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: they ask the question of voters. Would you support or
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: oppose a Green New Deal, a policy in which the
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: federal government creates jobs and invests in low-income communities, building
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: energy-efficient infrastructure, replacing lead water pipes, and updating America's energy grid?
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: First of all, I give credit to our friends at
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Data for Progress. The way they worded that, that's a
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: pretty policy-heavy wording, right? Like, you're talking about infrastructure, you're
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: talking about the energy grid, right? And also, it's a
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: pretty progressive wording. You're talking about investing in low-income communities.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: You'd have a lot of Democratic consultants in polls just say, oh,
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: do we want to mention low-income communities? We should talk
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: about the middle class all the time, right? And even
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: with that wording, voters supported that kind of Green New
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: Deal the way that it was worded. 59% of voters
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: support a Green New Deal worded like that. Only 28%
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: oppose that Green New Deal. And 12% are unsure. Break
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: down by party. You get 87% support among Democrats, 60%
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: support among independents, and 28% support among Republicans. Did that
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: surprise you?
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: No, not. We've seen polling on this before that is similar.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: And the way that was worded is, I think, brave
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: in the traditional outdated sense of politics that you include
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: low-income communities, et cetera, but jobs, getting rid of lead pipes,
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: that lead pipes.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Is a- People like clean water.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: People do not want to be poisoned when they brush
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: their teeth. They do not want lead poisoning. Their people
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: are very anti-lead poisoning.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of political analysis people come here for.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: And so that is a very strong place to start,
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: but political messaging is dynamic. And so you say that,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: They say you're banning hamburgers and cows. You come back
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: and say this. I think Democrats can definitely win that exchange.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: But you see the Republican number goes up as the
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: more pure Republican messaging is delivered to them, in many cases,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: unfiltered because it's coming through the conservative media and the
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: hermetically sealed ideological bubbles. And that changes those numbers. But
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: I think the takeaway from that and all the experience
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: in 2020 is that Democrats should not only not be
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: scared to talk about climate, they should be excited to
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: talk about climate because it can and does work for them,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: and not just with young voters, but with a wide
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: swath of the electorate.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: I think, I mean, sometimes you look at an issue
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: and think, all right, progressives have the policy right, moderates
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: might have the politics right. It's the case on some issues.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: This is a case with the Green New Deal where
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: I think that the progressives are right on the policy
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: and the politics. Because I think for a long time,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: more moderate Democrats had climate policy that was focused exclusively
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: on what everyone has to sacrifice, right? Whether it's your
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: energy use or a carbon tax or the car you're
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: gonna give up or, you know. And I think that
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: what the Green New Deal does is it recognizes that
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: climate politics also has to be focused on what people
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: can get from this transformation to a decarbonized economy. good
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: union jobs, lower electric bills, lower gas bills, right? Like
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: there has been a lot more focus and a lot
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: more investment in some of the communities that could potentially
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: get left behind from a transition to a zero carbon
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: economy and, you know, economic justice, environmental justice, right? Like
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: all of these ideas that can actually bring a lot
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: of the disparate groups on the progressive side in politics
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: together around a plan so that you don't have the
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: traditional problem that you have in climate politics of, say,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: unions fighting environmental activists, right? And you just had, you know,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Joe Manchin the other day come out in favor of
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: the PRO Act, which would make it easier to join
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: a union, right? Partly because he said, look, if we
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: want to reduce emissions, which we do, we have to
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: make sure that there are good union jobs for people,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: either whether they're energy jobs or whether there are other jobs.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: But like you can start to see both sort of
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: centrist moderate Democrats and more progressive Democrats realize that if
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: we're going to tackle climate, we probably need unity on
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: the Democratic side, especially to fight whatever the Republicans are
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: going to throw at us.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is the true political inspiration thing. ingenious
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: really behind the idea of the Green New Deal is twofold. One,
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: it's taking two crises that are happening in this country,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: growing economic inequality and climate change, and finding a way
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: to tie them together for a solution that solves both problems.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: And that also creates cross-issue coalitions to fight for. People,
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: like you said, it's unions who want these good jobs,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: and it's environmentalists and climate folks who care passionately about
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: the planet. The second thing that it did, which is
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: really important, is it inverted the messaging around climate, which
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: used to be good jobs. And over here, we're going
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: to do some good planet stuff, too. We're going to
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: save the planet. And in saving the planet, we're going
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: to create all these good jobs. And I think that
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: that is a more inspiring, urgent message than the opposite.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: So knowing all this, what should activists push for? What
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: can realistically get done in Congress? You know, like we said,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: we've got $ 1 trillion worth of spending in The American
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: Jobs Plan that is devoted to clean energy investments. You know,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: AOC and Ed Markey and a lot of progressive activists
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: who are pushing for the Green New Deal say that's
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: not enough. What do you think can get done?
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it starts with trying to get the
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: American Jobs Act passed. And there's a lot of work
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: to do to get that done. And a trillion dollars
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: in climate spending is a giant deal. That's a huge thing.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: And then once you get that, then you can build
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: on it. I think this climate core idea that AOC
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: and Marky are pushing and is in the Biden plan
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: is a great idea also because it's a self-sustaining thing.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: It creates a world where we're going to continually invest
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: in hiring people to do this very important work around
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: climate change. It's something you can see continuing long afterwards
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: because it's hard to turn programs like that off because
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: it means you're going to fire a bunch of people
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: from jobs and Doing those things. I think the lesson
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: of all of this is the fact that Joe Biden
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: is pushing a trillion dollars in climate spending, is having
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: this giant summit, just pushed a climate goal that is
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: so much more aggressive than the one the Democrats were
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: pushing just a few years earlier, is a sign that
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: activism works and Joe Biden is willing to listen. I
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: think that is a lesson for climate. That is a
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: lesson for healthcare policy. That's a lesson for student debt,
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: which is He is someone who will listen if you push.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: And if you push, you can make progress. And so
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: that's why I think it's so important that you have
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: the Green New Deal coming out, which is to the
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: left of what Biden is pushing, but it continues to
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: motivate people and get people to push for something more.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: And so I think continuing to get behind the Green
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: New Deal, get behind some of the bolder ideas out
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: there will help over time continue to move not just
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden, but the other Democrats in Congress here. Because
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: you mentioned Joe Manchin. He's for the PRO Act. which
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: is really a theoretical exercise as long as he remains
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: supposed to get rid of the filibuster, but that's a
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: problem for today. But ultimately, he's also the person who
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: signs off on energy policy in the Senate, not just
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: because he's the 50th Senate, but because he's in charge
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: of the committee. And so we have to continue working, working, working.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: And I think we use this in 2022 because if
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: we expand our Senate majority and hold the House, we
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: expand the Senate majority beyond 50, which is something that
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: is certainly possible to do, then Joe Manchin does not
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: become The person who decides how progressive or conservative our
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: climate policy is, you have someone else doing that. And
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: so it should also be a motivating factor for everyone
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: who cares about this issue to get involved and get
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: engaged for 2022. Yeah.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: And, you know, since you brought it up, we should
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: make the point about the filibuster and how it relates
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: to all this. Climate is one of those areas that
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: you can do a lot by spending money, which is
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: good news. So you can do a lot through a
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: reconciliation bill. But to really achieve the emissions cuts that
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: you need, you probably have to pass a clean energy standard, right?
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Or a carbon tax or something. You have to pass
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: something that is probably not going to be just budgetary,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: that may not make it through the fucking parliamentarians bullshit.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: And so to really get the full effect of the
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Green New Deal, you once again probably have to get
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: rid of the filibuster. Once again, we are in the
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Joe Manchin cul-de-sac. where we have been for a couple
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: of months now. But, um, but anyway, the upside of
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: all this is like you said, activists should keep pushing and, uh, and,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: and Joe Biden, you know, he has proven that he
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: will listen before he will still frustrate you at times,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean you shouldn't stop. And so, um,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: and so happy earth day, Dan, happy earth day.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Can I, uh, read you a email marketing email I
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: got from a brand? Yeah. Good fabrics are good for
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: the earth.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: That is just, you know what? We welcome the brands
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: to all these conversations about social justice and environmental justice.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: But just think a little harder before you put out
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: your tweets. Brands. All right, everyone. Have a great weekend.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Congresswoman Karen Bass for joining us today. And
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: we will talk to you next week. Bye, everyone. Pod
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Flavia Casas. Our
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: associate producers are Jordan Waller, Jazzy Marine, and Olivia Martinez.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Segland is
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Somenator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: Caroline Rustin, and Justine Howe for production support. And to
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Narmal Konian, Yale Freed, and
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as videos
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: every week.