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Transcript

Ringing the Bell with Dan Moore · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  How many people do you know- [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs... that have rung the bell not once, maybe not twice, but a third time?
• 0:16
  On- Um, well, I can think of a lot of boxers- [laughs]... um, that have done that. Uh, we could go with Ali. We could go with Tyson if you wanna get really technical about ringing the bell.
• 0:26
  Like, lots of the, lots of the UFC fighters. How many? You wanna, you wanna go Google it, or what do you think? Yeah. [laughs] Well, I, I don't know.
• 0:33
  We could Google it, but then I immediately think of our guest today, Dan Moore from Vista Dash. Oh. [laughs] That was my first thought. That was your first thought? How many people do you know?
• 0:42
  Yeah, I mean, 'cause he, he's at the point now where he's rung the bell so many times that it's like I don't even know if he even bothers, like, telling his family that it's happening anymore.
• 0:52
  It's just like- [laughs] You know? It's like- Like, "Honey, our paycheck's coming from somebody else now." [laughs] Yeah, exactly. [laughs] "Our benefits plan changed again." [laughs] "Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00
  Don't worry about it. I got it." Don't worry about it. "I got it." Well, what, what of course Michael means is that he's brought and successfully led Vista Dash through several acquisitions.
• 1:09
  Um, and Dan is always one of those people that is just a pleasure to be around, and I think that probably has something to do with his business success. He's got a smile on his face. He's the easiest person to talk to.
• 1:20
  And the second you start talking about any details, you'll realize that Dan is somebody who wants to talk about the truth, right? He's not interested in, in, like, meandering around the topic.
• 1:32
  He's not interested in throwing up, you know, a buzzword to, to- [laughs]... move the conversation along. He's like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. What, what you said right there, I don't think that's accurate." Right? Yeah.
• 1:41
  But he does it in this really friendly kind of way- We'll get to your-... to where you're like, "Ah" We'll get to your prepared talking points in a minute. But first... [laughs] Right. [laughs] Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
• 1:51
  Exactly. You know, I, I, I always think of Dan in, I was at a conference with him one time and we were just having dinner.
• 1:57
  And I think of him as, like, this, like, extremely incredible businessman, but an incredible family man as well.
• 2:04
  And so I just love having a conversation with him because I, I know the root, uh, of, of his heart and his heart for his family, and the way he cares for his children. And, like, the way he, he wants...
• 2:15
  Like, he wants people to succeed whether you're in his family or outside his family. He is genuinely- True...
• 2:20
  for people, and that comes across in everything that he does, and probably the reason why he's now seen a couple acquisitions of Vista Dash, uh, under his watch.
• 2:30
  So, uh, well, we hope that you thoroughly enjoy our conversation with Dan Moore of Vista Dash.
• 2:36
  [upbeat music] Uh, Dan Moore, we are already laughing because I don't think the four of us can get together without laughing.
• 2:50
  Thank you so much for giving us some of your time on Auto Collabs today, and we hope to get you in as much trouble as possible. Well, you know that won't take long.
• 2:58
  We already were in trouble before you hit the record button. [laughs] Ah, you only can get in trouble- [laughs]... if you hit the record button. So now the troublemaking time starts.
• 3:07
  You are in the middle of, um, what I would consider like a, a, a bit of a new lease on life with Vista Dash. Uh, you've gone through some seasons. There have been some acquisitions.
• 3:16
  But, uh, give us a little bit, give us a little insight into your life, 'cause you're an entrepreneur. You're a tech entrepreneur, and you lead a company that's been through several transitions.
• 3:24
  Like, what's your life looking like these days? It's great. It's great. [laughs] That's the best podcast guest ever. [laughs] No. Better than yours. Thanks for spending some time with us today on Auto Collabs.
• 3:37
  Michael, I'm gonna take good notes. My, my time is done. Um- [laughs] Thanks for having me on. [laughs] No. I said I wouldn't take long to get in trouble. Uh... No, I mean, all seriously, it, it's...
• 3:49
  A- again, seasons are fun, right? You, you start out, um, you know, super proud of just taking Brian Pazd's vision of what he started with ROI Bot that then became Vista Dash, and really kind of running with it.
• 4:02
  You know, a- as someone that kind of, you know, creates something, to hand it off to someone and say, "Hey, go run," that's a, that's a hard challenge in and of itself. So just- Mm-hmm...
• 4:12
  starting there, uh, and now going through. And we're now on our, being acquired for the second time. Um, it, it's been a great journey. A lot of lessons learned, a lot of dos and don'ts.
• 4:23
  Um, but really right now, you know, this relationship with DealerbilT coming into this, being right next to a DMS. Y- I mean, you guys have known me for a long time. I love data. Um, it's like a big box of Legos.
• 4:34
  So being able to kind of peel those layers back and look at all the possibilities, um, is really, really exciting. Also, too, just being,
• 4:43
  uh, partnering with such a great equity firm like ParkerGale, and having this, you know, backing of go, "Hey, how fast can you go? What can you do?" Well, I think you guys are starting to see that.
• 4:53
  We just announced our, um, strategic relationship with NADA. We've got James Klaus on board. We've got Kendall Billman on board.
• 5:01
  So you're already seeing signs of what's coming, uh, and, and the fun work that's about to happen. Man, someone saying, "Can you imagine? How fast can you go?" Dan's like, "Watch this." Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?
• 5:13
  [laughs] Yeah. The magic words I've been waiting to hear my whole life. [laughs] Right. That's great. Like, I'm sorry. Did you just take the, just let me out of the cage? Like, oh, this is crazy. [laughs] Um, yeah.
• 5:23
  It's always that thing, be careful what you ask for. Yeah, without a doubt. [laughs] Without a doubt. So all right. So, um, does your regular life... Like, you didn't move or anything for this, did you?
• 5:35
  No, still in Scottsdale. Yep. Is it hot in Scottsdale? I'm just kidding. That's all. Well, it's actually hotter in California. Ghost of the weather. Yeah, it's quick. It will go back. But no, it's not.
• 5:45
  It's hotter in California right now. [laughs] That was a joke. That was a joke. Michael has a very insightful question. When- [laughs] I'm sorry.
• 5:55
  So no, the, the joke, the joke is, on the show for everyone who's listening, is that Michael has a very big tendency to when he doesn't... wanna ask a question, he will just ask Kyle or me to ask a question.
• 6:07
  And I thought Dan Moore was the right guest. Like, we're gonna get- we're already sideways on this podcast. [laughs] But I thought that was the perfect, uh, the perfect time to give Michael a little of his own medicine.
• 6:18
  Oh. [laughs] But you know I got questions for days, though. Yeah, okay. I'm the, I'm the question guy. Oh, I got, I got answers for days. That's why I said, "You guys still only booked us 20 minutes? Good luck."
• 6:27
  [laughs] Give me an inside look into a merger and an acquisition because I think people see, you know, from the outside we're like, ring the, he rung the bell and he's rung the bell so many times.
• 6:37
  What are the nuances of, like, new, new acquisition, moving, you know, it, m- migrating into a new company? Are there new workflows?
• 6:45
  Or d- or for the most part is it just like, "No, you keep doing what you're doing and operating that way. We're gonna, we're gonna stay over here and..."
• 6:53
  Or, or do you have to really sit down and say, "Here's the lanes that we're all in"? What does that look like? Um, it looks like all of those things. [laughs] Because again, it, it, everybody thinks it's easy, right?
• 7:05
  Mm-hmm. Which seems like everything is. Right, must be nice, right? Must be nice. Everyone's like, "Must be nice." Yeah, must be nice. Right. Must be easy. Oh, you're gonna retire. Yeah, no, I'm still in the game, kids.
• 7:12
  So obviously there's more to the puzzle, right? He said, "Kids." [laughs] Like, listen, i- I feel old, man. I'm starting to feel old. I mean, we used Twitter back in the day when it was cool.
• 7:23
  I mean, that, that's- [laughs]... starting to date me in automotive. Well, see, that, that just shows you that Twitter's actually cool again. No, no, it's coming back. Right. It's making a comeback. It's coming back.
• 7:30
  That's exactly it. [laughs] It's that cyclical thing, right? The founders of Orchid are- The '70s are back again. Yeah. Twitter is back again. Yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah, Facebook might show up. Who knows? Sorry, Bob.
• 7:41
  Um- [laughs] Love you. Shots fired. [laughs] All day long, twice on Tuesday. Um, it is Tues- no, it's Wednesday today. Guys, here, here's the reason I asked, though.
• 7:52
  Okay, but ac- actually, so Must Be Nice M&A, Must Be Nice. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, like, here- But, but here's the reason I asked...
• 7:56
  but, but getting into the, yeah, no, but getting into your answer, let me give you some, some lanes. Everything is going to be different based on who, where you're going.
• 8:04
  Are you going into a company, and again, these are things I've seen from being at Cox Automotive to going through my own journey with these seasons.
• 8:12
  There is the point of being acquired and you're the shiny new gem or, or something, so then that lane will be like, "Hey, do what you do. Keep going."
• 8:19
  There might be the point of acquisition where you come in and you're kind of like more of being dictated how things are going to go and you're going to be forced to conform. Um, so it really depends.
• 8:30
  So if you're going through this or your, your goal is to get into this situation, I, I would give you some caution and some advice. A, think about why you're doing it and what you're doing it for.
• 8:43
  If you're just looking for the exit, cashing out, and running, it's not gonna... It doesn't play that way.
• 8:48
  Um, everybody that's going to go ahead and put money in the game is going to, especially if you're a founder or something, they want to retain you or hold you in. Mm-hmm. So remember, your work's not done. Right.
• 8:59
  It's not as glorious going in and going out at times. Again, sometimes these things are strategic. Um, it, and, and again, it's just kind of how you navigate and what your end game is.
• 9:10
  My end game has always been I see Vista for what it is and I think we're just getting started. There's so much more that we can do. I love this product, I love the team, um, so I'm still in it for the love of the game.
• 9:23
  I w- Well, when you say you see Vista for what it is, what is it? It is going to be probably the biggest business intelligence platform in automotive if I get my way. 'Cause there is a way to make it agnostic.
• 9:37
  Again, everybody's talked a good game about truly being open-ended and connecting and wanting to connect. That has been our premise all along. Standardize and connect to provide dealers a single source of truth.
• 9:49
  So- And you see it as fulfilling that for real, for real? For, yes, 100%. What's the timeline? I think we'll have an MVP by NADA. Ooh. Wow. All right. Ooh. Okay. [laughs] He s- he said, "Remember that run fast thing?"
• 10:04
  Yeah, Kyle, that's not 2030 last time I checked. [laughs] Well, okay, so- I'm not, I'm not saying it's gonna be fully baked, guys. I'm saying we'll have a taste. Right. I love it. But it's a good MVP. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:14
  So, uh, I mean, obviously a strategic play is getting closer to the DMS, and I think that, I don't care what technology platform that you're working with right now is, like, I feel like that's the, that's kind of the, uh, the, that's the, the, the h- the pot at the end of the rainbow, let's call it.
• 10:33
  Right. Like, if you, if you find it and if you get close or closest to the DMS, whether you are, uh, a website or, or data or, you know, DR or, doesn't matter. Right. Doesn't matter. It's like you're there.
• 10:46
  If you're tied in, that's... So what is that gonna accomplish for you in creating this level of, like, BI, business intelligence? Yeah, the, yeah, the taste factor is this.
• 10:55
  Like, attribution's cute, but at the end of the day- [laughs]... if, if a dealer's really running their business and the many challenges that hit the business, you wanna know what levers to pull.
• 11:03
  So imagine this, if you would, if you had an indicator that said, "Your master tech right now only has three hours worth of work," that's a red flag. Right. What's the lever? I'm gonna go pull on marketing.
• 11:14
  I'm gonna do some kind of transmission special. I'm gonna pull hard, right? But no one has the insights or the levers right now. They're guessing. We're still guessing. Even attribution, attribution's just keeping score.
• 11:25
  "Hey, good job. I sold Paul a car. He hit these touch points. Yay me." But we're not asking the question- Right... "How many Kyles did you lose?" That's not keeping score, that's watching game tape. Yeah, yeah. Oh. Yep.
• 11:42
  I like that. Yeah. So appropriate seeing it's football season. Well, and it's watching game film and then cre- and then creating the playbook for, for the next day, the next week, the next month.
• 11:51
  And I think that- Correct...
• 11:52
  what, what you're saying is, like, hey, what we've been doing is we've either only been watching game film or only been w- like, reporting the score o- on ESPN the next day-But, like, the turn to action is, um, much, much more based on gut feelings than real insights, right?
• 12:11
  I, i- if we're all being honest, I think we've been keeping score. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Nobody's watching the game tape. Well, and what- Oh, I am...
• 12:20
  what it sounds like you're trying to do with more direct integration is creating game tape that you can watch while you're actively playing the game. Correct.
• 12:33
  It's like you're playing Madden Football, where you're actually seeing your player in real time, so you're getting the gameplay and the replay and, and real time all at the same time. 100%. It's pretty badass.
• 12:46
  And ra- and, and instead of having to go dig for it, it's in your face. Like, imagine- What, what do you think-... sitting in the dealership with a, a true, a true air tra- traffic control, right?
• 12:56
  You're seeing a screen and it's telling you from variable to fixed to accounting, what do you need to be paying attention to? What are the red flags going on in your business right now? Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:06
  What does it take to... Because, you know, at some level there's, there's the human intelligence piece of, of this that takes, like, those insights to action, right? There's always- Right...
• 13:16
  a coach watching game film, taking insights to action. What's the... Like, what's the gap that technology can fill from insights to action, right? To say like- Yep... "That's a lever you can go pull," you know?
• 13:30
  Or, "Here's four levers that you can pull, test accordingly," or some... Like, do you think that technology can fill that gap as well? I think technology can assist.
• 13:40
  I think that's the part where, just like everything that we're facing today, when we talk about EVs and everything, we lose sight of the common thread, to your point, which is the human piece.
• 13:51
  I, I don't see how you get past not having human interaction. Because, again, a business owner runs the business. Yes, we can use machine learning, we can use some if this, then programming.
• 14:02
  If we really get to a scale of, of mass data, then you could add an element of AI. But if, but if we're just being honest, we've gotta be able to present the flags at first, get those reads, right?
• 14:14
  Use the human intelligence to then add those other layers. So you're talking, I mean, you are talking time in that one. A- and that could be, you know, a couple years, could be five years, could be 10 years.
• 14:23
  I don't know yet. But we're going down this path.
• 14:27
  I, I see it for what it is, and the question just becomes, if you get enough synergies and enough partners that truly wanna open up the gateways, we could probably get there faster. But we'll see how that goes.
• 14:39
  This is where I think, like, as an industry or as providers, we've done a disservice over the years. Because we've made... There's been so much talk about [laughs] big data, artificial intelligence, machine learning.
• 14:52
  Yeah. N- nobody's really offering true AI. Like, it, the, the amount of data that, like, to your point. Like, you said, "Once we get a certain le- level of data, then-" 100% "...
• 15:04
  maybe we can start expl-" Maybe then i, uh, is the key takeaway for me. We're not there yet. And- No, the, the way businesses behave though...
• 15:10
  but, but we let people think that we are, when really, you, you said it, it's we have simple programmatic intelligence. If this, then that. And- Right...
• 15:18
  and now we're all mistaken and we think, "But, but how come, how come there's no sentient being vendor in, in automotive?" 'Cause they've been saying- [laughs]... AI for so long. No, it actually just takes time.
• 15:31
  We're not there yet. No. A- and again, the only ones that really are capable of that threshold, and I, again, I don't even... I mean, there's still so much data. 'Cause if you look at what Google crunches
• 15:40
  per, like- Right... millisecond, a, a Cox Automotive, a Cars.com, somebody of that sight is the closest one to AI that you could probably get to just in the sheer amount of data volume. Right.
• 15:53
  Other companies that are touting it, there's just not enough volume. Right.
• 15:56
  So the problem becomes, and if you've listened to any TED Talks on AI, which was, there- some of them have been, really been fascinating in the sense of, hey, the problem is, even Amazon had this, they, they used it for looking for programmers.
• 16:10
  Okay? So they used AI to run the- Yes... program, to run through resumes. [laughs] And the unfortunate side is it, it became very objective. Because it learned- Right... from a human in a small box.
• 16:21
  [laughs] So it started kicking applicants out of the... Right? So again, w- when I hear AI, I cringe 'cause I'm like, okay, either, A, you've, you don't have enough throughput. You're using human intelligence.
• 16:33
  You're creating, uh, bad behaviors because you're not paying attention to what it's really learning.
• 16:38
  So there is an art to AI, and there's a l- there's a small group that have really, really understand it for what it is and run it at the, at the velocity that it has to, to run at. So therein lies- Yeah... our challenge.
• 16:50
  I think we just get- I, I think that-... a little bit, uh, buzzword happy... I, I think that like, like, uh, you know, I think that what we can achieve with scale from a data perspective is understanding trends, right?
• 17:01
  And I think if we can learn from trends as an industry to understand shopper behavior and then iterate off of that to, to, to give these, like, potential levers, I, I think that that's a better way to think about the level of data that you may have access to as you get closer to the, uh, the DMS or you're implementing on all these dealer websites.
• 17:22
  Is like, okay, here's mass data trends. And I think you already do some of that, but you're, you're pressing into that more. Here's the mass data trends.
• 17:29
  Here's the insights that we typically see from that, especially maybe there's a regionality or a district level. And now we can make some, we can gain some, like, insights to say, "Okay, there's the game film.
• 17:40
  Let's watch that. Now here's the levers that we've seen pulled that impact, you know, the user experience or the, or the, or the employee experience, or the amount of traffic."
• 17:51
  And if we can have those few levers that we can quickly spit out and start to run tests.
• 17:57
  One of, one of the things that I'm, I'm really interested in, you know-Uh, have you, have you, like, baked into this idea of, like, we have to not just, we not just have to pull levers, but we also have to run t- tests at scale?
• 18:09
  Like, is there- 100%. Is, yeah. Is there a move to, like, how do we figure out, like, when tests are being run that...
• 18:16
  You know, uh, like, I think simply is, you know, Google Analytics, you know, created this note take, you know, this notation system a, a long time ago, and some people use it well, some others don't.
• 18:26
  But, you know, what, what are you doing to bake in this, like, testing native into the, the ecosystem of, of dealer marketing? Yeah.
• 18:33
  I, I think, I mean, we've been playing around with that for quite some time using, again, you can use event tracking, 'cause you can look at, if you properly tag out a site, look at CTAs, you can see workflows, you can see where customers, what pages they come in.
• 18:44
  If you look at journey flow, obviously that helps you understand it.
• 18:48
  Um, I think, you know, again, as, as a true industry, we gotta get to more AB testing, which is what you're alluding to too, is like, "Hey, I'm gonna run this path and this path." Those capabilities exist.
• 18:58
  The, the reality to it is not many are doing it. Um, and just the level of wanting the d- the desire of actually truly testing and running side by side, you gotta have the patience and appetite for that.
• 19:09
  Not everybody does. That's part of the challenge we, we have in the, in the industry.
• 19:14
  I, I think the other piece too is, is that when we look at, um, some of these fast- We, we've gotta just get past this buzzword mentality too. I mean, you l- look, we've had AI, big data, um, OTT, Amazon.
• 19:30
  Like, you think about all these different things. At the end of the day, it's either just a channel, it's a marketing. It's, it's not a, it's not a thing, it is a tactic.
• 19:39
  So to your point, Kyle, is we gotta take the tactics and, and truly flush them out for what they are, and then test them accordingly. How did these campaigns really perform?
• 19:48
  And we have to start measuring things on an apple to apple comparison, because you guys see this all the day. You, everybody's measuring on different things.
• 19:55
  So I can be doing a Google paid search ad, and we could have cars.com doing this and, you know, somebody doing some Amazon OTT, and you cannot put them in a parallel. They're, they're all over the place.
• 20:07
  You can't tell, if you looked at those three campaigns side by side, who really performed better than the other. So I think that's the other piece too that's just really critical to standardization as an industry,
• 20:20
  um, is getting on the same page and making sure that we have an apples to apples line that we can measure with so that we can get, to your point, the testing. You can't test if you're not even standardized.
• 20:30
  Well, and but this is where I think, I mean, just to like, you know, uh, to strengthen your point there, this is where I think attribution is a broken model to marketing, right? What?
• 20:40
  And our good friend Bob Lanham, who we talked about i- initially, is like, you know, uh, you cannot, if you try and go at attribution as a, a marketing efficiency, you're, it's always gonna break because attribution is not linear.
• 20:55
  And so I think, you know, modeling als- off of business outcomes, I really appreciate that you started with that and saying, "Hey, look, the business outcomes, do we have hours? Do we have car deals?
• 21:06
  And do we have parts sold," right? Correct. "Do we have those three things? And are business outcomes happening? And as I pull levers, what happens to those business outcomes?" And if you can t- What, what tactics-...
• 21:17
  tie levers to business outcomes- Correct... that's, that's the Holy Grail for me. Because then you create a mix that says, "Hey, here's my mix now. I pulled a lever, my mix there changed to X business outcome."
• 21:29
  All the sudden, then we don't worry about attribution because it's not channel specific, it's mix specific. Mm. And that's a whole different mentality.
• 21:35
  And, and, so that's the word right there, and that's where Bob and I swim all day long. The unicorn to marketing is mix. When dealers realize that they are a fingerprint. Right.
• 21:46
  Stop worrying about what Johnny ABC Motors is doing down the street. You are your own fingerprint. You are unique. Yes. Stop...
• 21:53
  A- and this is the dangerous game too that you brought up I wanna go back on, is the comparison game. What's, what's going on in the region, in the market and everything else. It's a dangerous- Right... game.
• 22:01
  Several people in the analytic space have, pull that data all the time. "Let me compare you to the region, to the market, to this, to that." It's dangerous because- Yep... your strategy is your strategy.
• 22:12
  Your strength is your strength. Yeah, because that guy's a one price dealer, and that guy's a, a, a negotiate like crazy. Correct.
• 22:19
  And that guy's a, you know, and, and this person runs, uh, does, you know, lifetime warranties, and this person does- You sell all, you sell to the whole country. You know? They sell in their DMA. Right. Exactly.
• 22:28
  Like, so we, we gotta just cut the noise and be honest. What is it you are doing? What is the right mix, right? That's one piece.
• 22:35
  And then the other piece that I think kinda supersedes attribution is, where's the friction? Mm. Because when you think about what you have going, it's three prongs.
• 22:44
  You have, you have the product, right, which is the vehicle or the vehicle maintenance or parts. Then you have the marketing, right, the awareness, the, the, the channels in which you operate your, your marketing.
• 22:55
  And then you have the people in the process. Okay? So again, like I said, if Paul bought the car, and we know Paul bought a Ford F-150, and he went, you know, he went here, here and here.
• 23:05
  Well, the problem is, is that what you don't know is you lost 10 Kyles, because somewhere between the marketing message and it landing on your website, it didn't resonate and you lost that customer.
• 23:14
  Or, hey, it went all the way through. You had the product, you had the marketing, but your people in the process failed. Mm-hmm. Yep. But you don't know that. Mm-hmm.
• 23:25
  I, I, I wanna know that, 'cause that's more important than the fact I already know I sold Paul a car. I already know. I won. Great. Yep. Got that one. Tally mark. Yeah. [laughs] I, I want the 10 tallies I'm missing.
• 23:36
  I wanna, I wanna constantly understand, because I think what everybody misses- It's like save a deal for marketing. 100%. Mm-hmm. Or, or just being honest. Yeah.
• 23:43
  Like, we already know that every dealership is a sports car. It's already primed and ready to go. Like, it is. It's good.
• 23:50
  The reality to it is, is what we need to do as an industry is help the dealer set themselves up for the track that they're gonna race on, which means the environment, the, the challenges that they face, and then fine-tune it for optimal performance by making subtle tweaks to the things that, that impact those different chains.And then the end result is a highly functional, efficient race car running down the track.
• 24:11
  One of the things that stands in the way of this, and it always has, I mean, like, even when, you know, talking heavily about, like, brand marketing versus sales marketing, is the fact that what you're suggesting takes, A, a little bit of work, B- [laughs]...
• 24:27
  a little bit of time, right? [laughs] Mm-hmm. And just on those two factors alone, right? It's easy- Well-... to lean when you have a lot of people saying, "Let me give you something that you can deploy right now."
• 24:40
  Right. Right? Although, it's, it's not a, it's, it's a history lesson more than it is an indicator, right?
• 24:46
  Like, to use a sports metaphor, you could have a running back, say, like, well, he's not getting enough yards per carry. But what you're not looking at is, like, the left tackle's missing all his blocks. Correct. Right?
• 24:56
  And if that guy was blocking the guy he was supposed to, that would affect the running. Um, so what is- But- You know, I, yeah... but you're spot on there because it's easier to keep score- Right...
• 25:05
  than it is, to be honest, to watch the game tape and see what you're doing right or wrong. Yeah. It's, it's like, yeah, I mean, there's metaphors galore, right? Yeah. Even in health, right? The mirrors are worse enemy.
• 25:15
  You can, you can watch your weight, right? Yeah. But that doesn't mean you're healthy. Yeah. Right? Being healthy takes a plan, understanding your own biology, right?
• 25:22
  Eating the right things, doing the right combination of exercise. I don't know. On this episode of Auto Collabs- Yeah. [laughs]... full of metaphors. [laughs] Life helped with, through metaphors.
• 25:30
  Well, no, you know- Right... this is, this is a perfect metaphor because it's, it's, it presents itself as the biggest vulnerability in automotive.
• 25:38
  L- like, we have these conversations, and guaranteed there, there will be some listening or, or watching who go home and set a weight, a weight loss goal. "I wanna lose 50 pounds." No, dude.
• 25:49
  You're, you need to create your eating plan. You need to create your exercise plan. You need to... And, and they're not looking at that. And, and so you...
• 25:59
  It is a history lesson, but it's also the most infuriating history lesson because it's the one that, en masse, we refuse to learn from. Um,
• 26:08
  you said something, Paul, and Dan, you and I have had a ton of conversations about just the reality of what it actually takes to go from zero to one. Yep.
• 26:17
  And the reality is if dealers were to, or, or anybody for that matter, were to take inventory on that time that they are spending anyways,
• 26:28
  they might realize how inefficient the actions they take on a day-to-day basis are. Oh. They're, they're complaining too much about vendor A, or they're complaining too much about customer B, or whatever it might be.
• 26:40
  And they're not taking that hard inward look at their, their organization and saying, "Am I even the right person for this job?" Let alone complaining about Susan or Tim who's in that job and how inefficient they are.
• 26:54
  I mean, time is... I, I, and then, if you cross-reference to organizations that we know are crushing it, I mean, CMA, first one that comes top of my, top of my mind, Liza's organization.
• 27:06
  Look at how much they invest in watching the gameplay, in inspecting what they expect, in empowering their people, in coaching and mentoring and doing all of the... Like, they have finance.
• 27:18
  They have w- health classes, for crying out loud, for their people. Yeah. And I think that's just a byproduct of everything that you're talking about, Dan. Can you give us, though, some insights?
• 27:27
  Like, how do we alleviate... How do we both put the pressure on to make the most of the time we spend in the business- Yep... but also alleviate the pressure of feeling like we're, we don't have the time?
• 27:40
  Well, I, I mean, I'll, I'll attack the first and easiest one. Evaluate your reports. I, I mean, at the end of the day, we're, we're analysis by paralysis.
• 27:47
  And if you go into any dealership, they have stacks of reports sitting on their desk. They're tasking their teams with generating all these reports.
• 27:55
  The question is, is what point do you take inventory and say, "Does this report move my business, yes or no? What decisions am I making on this, yes or no?" Right.
• 28:03
  And when you start kicking the can on some of these reports that are meaningless, and you look at the time it, and you ask your employees honestly, "How much time does it take you to create this report?"
• 28:11
  "Well, it takes me two hours." Oh. [laughs] That's two hours. Right. That's two hours away from taking action. Right. So I always attack that first every time I go in. I don't care whether you use VistaDash.
• 28:23
  I don't care whether you use Excel. I don't care what it is.
• 28:25
  As long as you are using data in a meaningful way that has action points that you can make real business decisions, whether it's real time, going into the next month, like, there's several different points of where you take action.
• 28:38
  But let's just get honest with that. Stop just tasking your people to generate meaningless reports that you don't look at that's just a validation for them feeling like they did their job. Stop.
• 28:48
  You want- The job is to do stuff... I mean, if you want meaningless reports, Dan, hire a VA for 500 bucks a month and have them do that monotonous routine crap. Yeah.
• 28:56
  And, and then empower your people to actually do the stuff that's worth their time. A- agreed. I mean, that's the easiest- Yeah... one to, to go after, just because w- we have so many reports coming at us.
• 29:07
  Do we really make decisions? Right. Well- Probably feel like-... I feel like we've solved-... we make decisions... the world's problems here. I think so. Uh- I think we solved- Agree with that... some serious problems.
• 29:16
  No, but I mean, Dan, we, we always love chatting with you because it's, it's, you, you have a keen way, and, and I mean, it's the experience piece, I think, is a huge part, just the, the wisdom from, from everything you've accomplished.
• 29:31
  You can pull people out of the clouds back down to the earth and say, "Hey, feel that. That's what dirt feels like." [laughs] "You need to come back down to the dirt."
• 29:39
  Um, and so we, you know, I mean, for that, we always love, love getting to sit down and chat with you. So of course, on behalf of myself, Kyle Mountsier, and Paul Daly, thanks so much for joining us on Auto Collabs.
• 29:53
  Thanks, guys. [upbeat music]So remember that time where we were like, "Hey, Dan, all, no buzzwords"? [laughs] Well, we, I think we covered all the buzzwords- [laughs]... but we debunked some myths along the way.
• 30:08
  I, I really appreciated the way that he, uh, and I got to talk about it a little bit there too, but where he was really talking about how business outcomes are extremely important to measuring and, and defining marketing, and I think that that's something that we've gotten away from as an industry.
• 30:23
  Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, a lot of people in this move to digital were like, "We're gonna be able to track everything and know every person that came from every marketing channel."
• 30:32
  And I think over the last, like especially three to four years, there have been more and more people that have started to say, "Hey, look, that's, that's not realistic.
• 30:39
  That's not the, that's not the Holy Grail of marketing." The idea is, like, getting close to the DMS, getting closer to the business outcomes is the better way to run your business from a marketing perspective.
• 30:50
  So I appreciate that he debunked some of those myths and is working toward a solution that gives that back to dealers. It's one of those things- Anything you would like-... that's like, a- show me attribution from
• 31:05
  a rock. Like, that's where we're at in the industry. It's like, no, I, I don't think about how rocks provide any value to my life. Dan's the guy that's like, "Well, think about what you're saying for a minute.
• 31:18
  If there's no rocks, there's no asphalt." [laughs] "If there's no asphalt, there's no road. If there's no road, there's no..." Like, he's, he's like a sniper in business. Rocks matter, right. [laughs] Yeah.
• 31:27
  Like, he's a sniper in business because where everyone's thinking, "We need a better dashboard with meaningless reports," he's like, "Wait.
• 31:33
  There's an opening right there, and it's how do I give them real time gameplay footage so they can make smarter, faster decisions?"
• 31:43
  There's an element of him being a voice that normalizes, um, calling out the absurdities that so many- [laughs]... operate by.
• 31:53
  And, you know, that's, it's, you know, it's honestly one of the things that the three of us really try to do and are, uh, you know, making an effort to do through this podcast, through the other things that we're doing.
• 32:04
  Because the more we can normalize talking about these things openly- Yeah... the sooner people start to actually feel, um, a little shamed- [laughs]... by leaning on them so much, right?
• 32:16
  And, like, I'm not a big- Yeah... big, you know, I'm not a- But that's like a healthy shame. That's healthy shame. Yeah. The, I'm not a big, like, like, all shame is bad, right?
• 32:23
  Like, there's a lot of unhealthy shame, but there are some things that's like, hey, if you feel ashamed about it, like, maybe there is something there. Well, it's like an awareness, right? We, it, it- Yes...
• 32:31
  it's the shame that comes from heightened awareness of like, "Oh, I might not have been thinking deep enough about that thing." Yes. Right. And then when it's- Good...
• 32:40
  when it's cool to think deeply about them because everybody else is doing it, like, that's actually the good kind of peer pressure, and that's actually the type of mass adoption that we need to make meaningful change, um, in the industry.
• 32:50
  So, um, thank you for being a part of the meaningful change in the industry by participating in this podcast. On behalf of Michael Cirillo, Kyle Malcer, and myself, thanks for listening to Auto Collapse.
• 33:01
  [upbeat music] Sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free shot of relevant news and automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U.com.
• 33:14
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 33:21
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collapse. Welcome to Auto Collapse. [laughs] Why are we recording?
• 33:38
  [laughs] Are we rolling yet? Not yet.