Latest / Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!! / PROTECTING MENTAL HEALTH RIGHTS :Fight for Transparency
Transcript
- Pete: Welcome to another exciting episode of Peteford Society. have a very special guest today. He's the partner of Aster Smofujicic, I'm so sorry if I'm debilitating your wife's last name, Law, where they lead the legal team to dedicate to help families in crisis due to mental health disorders, substance use, and failed recovery efforts. Please welcome in the one and only Mark Aster. Mark, thank you so much for coming and hanging out with us today. Ever wish you had someone to talk to anytime, anywhere, matter what you're going through? Meet PsychPAL, your 24-7 AI companion, designed to help you process your thoughts, calm your mind, and keep you moving forward. Chat anytime during a panic attack on a restless night or just when you need to vent. Prefer talking instead of typing? Try voice journaling. PsychPAL listens, transcribes, and truly understands. You can even upload screenshots of tough conversations, and it'll help you unpack how they made you feel. PsychPAL keeps life organized, too. Mark Astor: Yeah, Simovic, my wife will be thrilled with that. Well, thank you for inviting me Pete. I'm very flattered that you did that and it's nice to meet you. peter: Show ⁓ Pete: Mark, I'm so excited to have you here because I would like I said I was interested to know more about mental flaw but before we get into that whole thing let's learn a bit more about yourself man don't tell everybody how you got to where you're at It can add appointments to your calendar, track your mood, and even summarize your sessions for your therapist so you'll never lose progress. Plus, built-in crisis resources are always just one click away. It's a privacy-first, constantly evolving, made to complement your professional care, not replace it. Ready to try it out? Head over to the link in this episode and use my code, Pete, at checkout to get 20 % off your first month subscription to PsychPAL. PsychPAL, because your mind deserves a companion too. Mark Astor: Okay, so this is my 32nd year of practice, not to age myself, but I'm feeling it every day. So in the mid 90s, so 94 to 99, I was a prosecutor right here in Palm Beach County. And I realized pretty quickly there was something wrong with the system, which was because we were seeing the same faces over and over again. And back then, we didn't have what I call diversionary courts. So a lot of states have these where there's drug court, veterans court, mental health court, courts that can help people with certain behavioral health issues, provided it's not a serious crime and provided they haven't been through the system many times and now they qualify for prison. we didn't have that back in the ⁓ In fact, ⁓ mandate even today in Florida is to punish first and rehabilitate second. So if you came back. Repeatedly at some point they just locked you up for as long as they possibly could because they didn't have anything else to do with you do for you so I left the office in 1999 I Did defense work for many years? I made a lot more money, but I'll be honest. I was completely miserable I got married and divorced. I was married at 34. I was divorced at 35. I'm 59 now and I Really made me ask myself a very important question Pete which was Pete: I'm sure Mark Astor: am I really happy? And I decided I was not happy. so took a year off. I moved up to DC. I got my master's in law. And I also, just FYI, a bit of an echo, just so you know. I don't know if it's picking up on the recording. I'm just hearing myself twice. Okay, there we go. Thank you. So, yeah, I went back to school for a year. was living in D.C. and I also worked on a presidential campaign for a whole year, which was really awesome. You know, I started out just as a volunteer and ended up being recruited to do the legal work for the campaign. I was also part of the advance team for the last two months of the campaign. So every weekend I was either with the presidential candidate or the vice presidential candidate. It was a rush. But the candidate I worked for... didn't win so I didn't get a job. came back. Had come back to Florida. 2010, I took what I had left after the 08 crash and I ran off to California for three years and basically spent three years in California failing the California bar exam ⁓ ⁓ the light fantastic. Doing all the things that the material likes to do. I'll leave it at that. You can read between the lines on that one. And ⁓ three I had no money left. Had to come home. So I'd already failed the exam out there twice. I studied for the third time when I was back in Florida. I sat down at the local library here, for the bar exam, the California bar exam, flew back to California, took it, came home, ⁓ I failed it a third time. I got within a percentage point, but I failed it. friends and were like, you're not supposed to be in California. You're not supposed to be in California. You spent a whole year studying for this exam. You couldn't pass it. Meanwhile, I studied for the Florida bar for three weeks. ⁓ something wasn't right and then i basically met somebody that changed the ⁓ the course of my life so i got invited to a breakfast meeting one morning see a guy speak the guy's name is r.john robbins ⁓ you can think of him he's like the tony robbins but of the legal profession he owns a company called how to manage a small law firm and they teach the one thing that no law school teaches any law student anywhere in the country and that is the business of running a law firm Now I came from an entrepreneurial background. My dad had left school at 14 and my mother 16. In fact, when they met, they sort of joked that they figured each one came from a wealthy family. Turned out neither of them had two nickels to rub together between the two of them. my father ⁓ his life building businesses. ⁓ worked, some didn't. Some made a lot of money and towards the end of his life, pretty left him broke, which was very difficult for me to see because my dad was a very proud man and he worked his ass off since he was a kid and was left with very little. So it's very hard to see that plus his health failed him. So I saw this guy speak about the business of running a law firm and after I saw him speak, I begged him for a job. I mean, I had nothing going on in my life. I begged him for a job and he hired me. And I spent a year there. I was living with my brother who had a place down in Miami. I slept in the kid's room on a cot and I spent a year working for this guy, learning about the business of running a law firm. But here's what I didn't realize Pete when I went to work for him. that I found out as I was progressing. Well, how to manage a small law firm is at their very core, they're a personal growth company for lawyers. I said to you, he's Tony Robbins, right? And they have an underlying philosophy that personal growth must proceed financial growth. And I realized two very important things while I was there. Number one, the reason I had, the reason that I was broke and had nobody special in my life is because I had failed to take 100 % responsibility. for the really poor decisions I'd been making along the way. And two, if I was going to go back to Prats and Law and open up a law firm business, I had to find a group of people that I could feel passionate about helping or I wouldn't be able to do it. And I really needed to get that zest back for Prats and Law because for many years I didn't practice because I hated being a lawyer. And I had close family members and friends who had these issues. And so in February of 2016 with no money, I sat down in the library, the same library I studied for that California bar exam is, that's where I opened up my law firm. And I sat down, I opened up my laptop, they had a little coffee shop there, and I made a spreadsheet of all the people I knew, and I just started calling people, hey, can I tell you what I'm doing? Can I meet you for coffee? And really cheap business cards made a Vista print. I ran around to treatment centers, handed out my business card, it took 14 months before anybody called me with a behavioral health-related case. So in the meantime, I took criminal cases, I took family law cases. I represented a student athlete here in central Florida who got himself in a bit of hot water with another female student. 11 months in, I lost my dad, and that was a real tough time for me because I had to scram. I mean, there no money to pay for a funeral. So I scrambled. I hustled, I maxed out my credit cards, and ⁓ my was still alive, I had to buy two plots. So I maxed out my cards, paid for my dad's funeral. and I took a loan out on my mother's plot which I paid off every month for five years. it was a really crazy time for me. But I just decided I wasn't going back to being broke and I hustled and I was able to get a really small office and in 2017 I met my now wife and for the next six years, know, I mean we just hustled. We did everything, sales, marketing, meeting with clients, drafting pleadings, running the court. We were driving 25,000 miles a year each. And in the last three years, the business has really taken off and we've hired staff so I can sit here without being bugged have a conversation with you. Remember I told you I had to take 100 % responsibility? The personal side of my life took a bit longer. So my wife and I are coming up and we just had our second wedding anniversary. So it took me five more years to figure that bit out. Because when I met her in 17, I said, if you're looking to get married again, because she'd been married. before two and had children, I said to you're the wrong guy, I'll never get married again. It's never going to happen. And it did happen, and it turned out, to be the single best decision I've ever made. It really is. It's the best decision I've ever made. Pete: Sounds like it though. You guys got a lot for him now together. You guys are doing great things. You've been together for two years now. mean, ⁓ lot of people say it too. Like I'm going through a divorce currently and I the same thing. I'm like, I never think I'm going to do it again. But I mean, it's always a possibility. I'm still young. I still have time to figure all that stuff out though. But mental health though is very interesting for you to get into it. there just a calling to it or was it just one of those things that fell in your lap and then you got so passionate about it because You don't hear a of people that champion for people with mental health issues or substance and all these other things. Mark Astor: Yeah, well, so, you when I first started taking cases, you know, in 2016, 2017, that was what my focus was, alcohol and recreational drug use. But two things changed that. Number one, COVID came along and that caused people to have all kinds of mental health issues. People that had never had issues started to have issues. People's medications stopped working or they needed medications and they couldn't get in to see their clinicians and they started calling 211. as soon as I thought like 911, they started showing up at what we call the Baycraft facility, which is a state behavioral health facility. And they started getting sucked into Florida's mental health system. The other thing that changed things was the legalization of marijuana here in Florida. And we started getting inundated with marijuana-driven psychosis cases. And so my wife had a background in guardianship. She had practiced guardianship law up in Massachusetts for about a dozen years while she was living up there. Guardianship is a statute that is typically designed for elderly people. So you can go in there and start making decisions for your elderly parents. And what we did was we basically modified the way the cases were being handled and we started doing guardianship, but strictly for behavioral health patients. Somewhere between 18 and 40 years old, that's our window of patient. so, mean, not that we wouldn't take an elderly law case, it's just not what we do. I focus on younger people, people that are having these behavioral health issues. And so we have this huge shift. which meant we had to figure out different resources, right? You have to have clinical services that can take somebody that has a primary mental health issue. You have to have clinicians that are available to you that you can work with that understand mental health, right? And also had a task force down here where I live in Palm Beach County ⁓ was federally funded and they were arresting people left and right. You had all these nefarious treatment centers that were just making a mockery, right? They were just maxing out people's insurance. were... They were urine testing them every three days and charging the insurance company $2,500 for peeing in a cup. Those people all got arrested and it left just a very small group treatment providers that could help us. Here's the other thing that changed things, Pete. So I told you I lost my dad 11 months in. Two after I buried him, I had a family member that had a complete meltdown and I was there with the cops and the paramedics, watched them strap her to a gurney and take her away. And she ended up getting sucked into Florida's mental health system. And I'm sure your state has a version of it. Every state does. We call it the Baker Act because it's named after somebody whose last name was Baker. But then during COVID, I was getting calls from other lawyers. Their clients were getting sucked into Florida's mental health system and nobody knew how to handle these cases. And I took a look at the statute and said, I'm going to drag the state and I'm going to start kicking them all over, I'm going to start kicking their butts all over the courtroom. And I will tell you, I file about 250 cases every year against the state of Florida. to get people out of Florida's draconian broken mental health system. Because it is broken, it is draconian. And the problem with it is once you get sucked in, it's really hard to get out unless you know how to do it. my whole world sort of shifted to handling these mental health cases. And it's been a real labor of love. I love what I do. You know, we have 16 people now working for us, so that brings challenges. There's 16 extra mouths to feed besides mine and my wife's. But you know. It's just been an amazing journey and you know last month was our 10th anniversary. It breaks my heart my dad isn't here to see it although I have his photo off in my office and hopefully he's looking down. you know building a business is a labor of love but it's a grind and it ain't easy and there's no such thing as an overnight success. It just doesn't happen. Pete: Yeah, no, I agree man. It's it's so awesome that you're you're doing so much for these people Especially 250 cases and trying to get them out of there You know because like you hear all these horror stories about it and things like that too Like all these different celebrities that get caught in it too like bad March airs when I'm really thinking of the guy from the 90s that skateboard kids and he got caught in the Florida system for a long time because his mom kept putting him in there and kept making up reasons why he had to stay in there and things like that and it's just It's great to hear that somebody is championing for these people. to pertaining to ⁓ health law, what are some things people don't know? Because not a lot of people know what their rights are as a mental patient. Mark Astor: So it depends on which side of the courtroom we're standing. I would say that about 55, 60 % of time, our client is the parent. So let's say, hypothetically, Bam's parents call us. Or somebody like Bam's parents will call us and say, Bam has a history of mental illness. Bam has a history of drug use. We want to get him help. And so when you're dealing with somebody like that, and I'm not pointing the finger at Bam, I'm just saying a potential patient, right? You're dealing with somebody who, for lack of a better word, has had their brain hijacked, meaning they're not capable making the decision to save themselves. So that leaves a couple of options. You could do nothing, and they ⁓ just continue to get worse, and they may end up dead. You can let the state step in, and what I mean by that is people with behavioral health issues tend to get arrested. that person, he or she may end up in the county jail, or they end up getting Baker-acted, sucked into Florida's mental health system. I can tell you from experience that neither the state does allow the job of taking care of people, either through the criminal or mental health system. Or the other option is somebody in the family says, okay, we have to make the decision to save them. And that's where we step in. Now, to your point, because I know that you're focused on patient rights and I applaud you for that, of the things that we spend a lot of time ⁓ is finding out what's really been going on in the case. How has this been going on for? What proof do you have? What have you tried? What's worked? What hasn't? And all those things. first of tell you as a lawyer, if I don't have enough evidence, I'm not taking the case. If I can't win it, I don't want to take it. That's not fair to the client. But ⁓ once in a while, I'll get somebody who calls me and they're not looking to help this person. They're looking to hurt them. In other words, the work that we do is a shield. It's not a sword, right? We're trying to help somebody who can't make the decision to save themselves. ⁓ every once in a while, I'll get somebody And it's clear to me they're just trying to hurt that person. I will not take that case. I've also had clients that we got hired on where they got one past the goalpost. And we found that after the fact that they had lied to us about what was going on here, or it was clear that they had contributed to the harm, I withdraw from those cases. I fired the client. That's not what we're here to do. Okay? I mean, we are in an adversarial posture, but we're looking to help somebody who can't help themselves. So those are about 60 % of the cases. The other ones that I talked about, Pete, which are those Baker Act cases, those are where somebody, where there was an allegation of some type of mental health crisis and most likely law enforcement got called to the scene, right? Mom and dad called and said, hey, this person's actively suicidal. You know, had one mother who came home and found her kid hanging from the ceiling. He was 18 years of age. Thank goodness she got him down and saved him. But those are the kinds of cases that we get, or somebody took too much medication and there was an allegation that they intentionally tried to self-harm. with an overdose. They get taken to the hospital and they get detained. mean, it's state action. So you may get taken to a private for-profit hospital, but that hospital has a license that says you are an agent of the state's mental health system and you can detain somebody. And if they try to leave, you can forcibly restrain them, right? It's a bit like being in the county jail, but it's worse. And the reason that it's worse, is that nobody actually knows you're there. So in Florida, if you get arrested, you get taken down to the county jail. Let's say that it's a no bond offense, right? Meaning say for instance, like it's domestic violence. You cannot post a bond on a domestic violence case here in Florida. They're gonna hold you until you see the judge. Now you'll see the judge within 24 hours of being detained, ⁓ locked in the county jail. ⁓ judge is going to address three things. Number one, probable cause to arrest you. Was the arrest legal? Did you meet the criteria for that particular offense? Number two, ⁓ The courts probably going to a point at least initially the public defender to represent you so you can get some initial Legal advice even if you go and hire a private lawyer at least someone you know There's going to be a lawyer that to tell you listen Pete keep your mouth shut don't say anything right and number three What are reasonable conditions of release because because you're presumed innocent? So we shouldn't be punishing you right now. No one's proven anything against you It's expensive to house people and give them three squares a day And ultimately what we want to do is get people out of the jail, just make sure that they come back for their court dates so their case progresses through the criminal system. And of course, as if there's a victim in a case, make sure they stay away. So think about this, right? You've been alleged to have committed a crime. You get all this due process within 24 hours. has to happen. It's in the statute book. You get Baker acted and none of that applies. They can legally hold you for up ⁓ 72 hours and nobody knows you're there. There's zero oversight, no judge, no lawyer, nobody knows you're there. They don't have to tell anybody and they don't tell anybody. And it's very easy for them to circumvent the minimal due process that's built into that statute. Meaning, after 72 hours, a couple of things are supposed to happen. They let you go, great. they file something with the court so that there is a hearing within five days. Or get you to agree to stay voluntarily. if you give informed consent. And typically what happens is they coerce the person to give voluntary consent, which means they can hold you indefinitely without a court hearing. And so you can see how draconian and broken it is. You haven't done anything wrong. In fact, they're alleging that you have a mental illness and you're being punished for it. That's not Pete: That's wild though. You're telling me they can pick you up, you'll disappear into the system. No, no, no, you're there. the craziest thing you ever heard. But I mean, that's what's happening though. ⁓ is that possible? They can't say anything. ⁓ got to be interesting though when you find somebody that was locked in there that doesn't even have a mental health case. Mark Astor: Isn't it? Yeah. Pete: that they just basically were wrongly accused of something, you know, and that's where you come in to defend them, Mark Astor: Yeah, what happens is the family will typically hire us and we'll file an emergency petition with the court. Now, most of time, because I do so many of these, they don't want to deal with me. When I first started doing these, Pete, and I was running all over the state doing them, see, they never heard of me. They didn't think I was going to put up a fight. You know, I did a half a dozen of these and wiped the floor with most of their doctors and they decided they didn't want to deal with me anymore. Listen, I was a prosecutor. I tried 200 jury trials in five years. I was a machine. I've tried everything from petty theft to capital murder. I can tell you I'm not afraid of taking on a doctor at a hospital. And I have two other associates now and they have a similar background to me and they love a good fight. So typically what happens now is not in every case but I would say in 80 % of the cases, once they know it's us, after we've filed something, they let the person go. They don't want to deal with the aggravation. But every once in a while, I get a hospital that wants to test us and we go in there and do our thing. here's ⁓ really motivates these hospitals. Number one, most of the time, most of our cases involve somebody with health insurance. So the hospitals are money motivated. Number two, because they are an agent of the state's mental health system, they enjoy sovereign immunity. That means you cannot sue them for this stuff. It's like trying to sue the police. You can try. I'm not saying it can't be done. It's just very difficult to sue the police because they're immune. When I was a prosecutor, I had sovereign immunity as long as I was acting as a prosecutor. You can hear I'm having an issue here. I the dog just bit my wife. Where were we? immunity, right? ⁓ Pete: Yeah, you're talking about how you can't sue this, you can't technically sue these hospitals because they have immunity and all that kind of thing. Mark Astor: They have immunity, right? Now, go for bids you get injured. I had a woman that was sexually assaulted. I had a man that was beaten up. That's different because they have a duty to keep you safe, right? They don't keep you safe when you get injured, right? As long as it's documented, then you can sue them for that. And every once in while we get one of those cases too. But as a general rule, I get two or three calls or messages through our website every day from people who got wrongfully detained and there is nothing I can do for them. I mean, you could file a complaint with the health department. But that's not going to get you any justice. mean, the health department's not going to do anything. Pete: That's insane though, there's nothing you can do for them. It's craziest thing I'm hearing you tell me, but I mean, it's what you're not lying though. You're like, you can't do anything because these people have immunity. You can't sue them. So what are people supposed to do in that situation then? Mark Astor: Well, that's why I tell people if you get detained, you want to fight like hell to get out as quickly as you can because there's no part of gold at the end of the rainbow. So what do do and sit in there? You know, try to get out because the longer you stay there, the more likely it is that you're going to get abused and not be able to do something about it after the fact. Right. I've seen people that were forcibly You know, they held them down, put a needle in their backside and rendered them catatonic. I mean, I've seen, I've had clients like that. go to the hearing and before the hearing I'd talk to the client and he ⁓ she would be bouncing off the walls. Pete: Yeah, you know, that's that's so wild though. I mean, like they have no rights. Is there any there's no way around it either. Is there there's nothing they can do. Mark Astor: Well, they do have rights, Pete. The statute outlines the rights that they have. But as I tell people, the whole point of having rights is so that you can seek relief in court to enforce what's been given to you, right? Either through a piece of legislation or the Constitution. So rights are only as good as their enforceability, right? Your ability to run in court and tell a judge that this this individual, this entity, this facility has somehow violated the right that the legislator or Constitution gives you. So that's what we're doing. We are enforcing rights. And the way to do that is to go to court. But if you're just going to jump up and down and say, my rights have been enforced, well, great. What would you like to do about that? My rights have been violated. I want them enforced. OK, great. What should we do about that? Well, what do you mean? Pete: Right, exactly. Mark Astor: I mean, we have to go to court to enforce your rights. A judge has to say, you know, Mark, you're right. Pete's rights have been violated. Facility, need to let him out. You violated his rights. if you're not willing to go and complain about the violation, then as far as I'm concerned, it didn't happen. It's like, if there's nobody to see the tree fall down in the forest, did it really fall? Pete: Exactly. Good point. Really good point on that one. I like that one. Yeah, but I mean, that makes sense. So it's like, you you need to start advocating the minute you get put in there if you don't feel like you're supposed to be there, you know, and it's it's just it's just crazy. But this is like people need to understand. Mark is a is a lawyer. He's telling you these things like, know, you guys think you're hearing this like this is exactly what he's saying. That's why their system's so broken there. It's just it's just it's just crazy to hear that, though, because a lot of people don't even know what rights they have when it comes to that kind of thing. You know, and I think a lot of people like to go WebMD and everything else. It's like they use the Internet for everything else, but they don't find the right information. You know what saying? Mark Astor: Yeah, I get people in time. They go on Google. Well, I Googled this and it told me this. Really? How many cases, how many cases is Google handled? Well, I'm told that you can only hold me 72 hours. Really? Where did you find that information? was on Google. Google says I can only be held 72 hours and I've been here five days. Well, Google's wrong. They can actually hold you six months. really? I didn't know that. Yeah. You want to do something about it? I mean, should we go to court and get you out? Because right now nobody knows you're there. Pete: Every time you say that, that's just straight from the heart that nobody knows they're there and they don't have to tell you anything. It's the craziest thing ever. Mark Astor: Pete, I've had people call me where the cops got called to the house. The police took the person away and the parents said, ⁓ where are you taking them? We can't tell you. And the parents had no idea where the person was, no idea. And the family was like, can you help me find them? And I'm like, I don't have access to that information. I I can't find them. I don't have the ability to find them. need someone has to pick up the phone. What's that? Pete: So in that situation, Mark, what would someone do in that situation? Yeah, exactly. So in that situation, someone takes the police take them away, they don't know where they're at. What is the next step for them to do? Just start calling places like, yo, is this person there kind of thing? Just start cold calling? Mark Astor: You can try, but here's the problem. These cases are all under the guise of medical confidentiality. If you call the facility and say, it's so and so there, or let's say that you even know where the person is. I'd like to talk to my daughter. She's at your facility. I'm sorry. I cannot confirm or deny that person is even here. Have a nice day. Click. Pete: That's just like, it's wild to hear, but it's the truth, though. It's what you're saying is so real, but it's so it's so crazy that that's their law there that they can just scoop you up and you disappear into the system almost, you know, and people probably listen, as we're to be going like, what? Like, yeah, this this is just like it's the craziest thing you ever heard. But like Mark saying, he's like, this is how it goes, Like, is there nobody like fighting to change these things? Mark Astor: NUTS Well, they made some changes to the legislation last year and a local CBS network came down to interview me and said, ⁓ what do think about the changes? I said, I think they dropped the ball. And you know, very nice TV anchors said, well, what do mean? I said, they didn't fix the one thing that really needed to be fixed. And she said, what is that? I said, kind of mechanism so that people, so that some kind of reporting mechanism built into the system like we have in the criminal system, where somebody gets due process automatically. They don't have to ask for it. It's given to them as a matter of law within 24 hours. So they don't fall into a big black hole, which is what's happening. And I said, you know, I sort of candidly said to the anchor, said, you know, if the governor had called me, I would have told him to fix this thing in about five minutes, because all the stuff they did didn't change a thing. It was a complete waste of time. Pete: That's crazy though. They change everything, it sounds great, but then you're like, well, what do mean? You didn't change anything at all. Nothing changed at all. You know what mean? It's just like, I just don't get it. A lot of times when they change things, it doesn't make any sense. And then you're all sitting there wondering, what the hell is going on here? ⁓ hey, we made all these great changes. And then when you really look at what the changes they are, nothing applies to the real problem. The root issue then is that you're scooping people up and they're disappearing. Mark Astor: Yeah, that's the root of the problem. Pete: It's so crazy though, man. so it's just like, God, like I didn't even realize that until you told me that too, because I'm like, I'm in Texas, you're in Florida, you know, and it's like those states, like some of their laws are just really weird like that. So if somebody's looking for more advice on mental health law, Mark, what would you say the best place for them to find that kind of stuff would be? Mark Astor: well i mean look it depends which state that there are no only bottom florida massachusetts ⁓ Pete: Yeah, definitely. No, I get it. So if they were looking in general, what would you say is a good resource for them just to start researching? Like anything they should be looking up when they're looking things up, know, because Google is great, but if you don't know what you're looking for, you're basically going in a circle. Mark Astor: Yeah, you know, we have a lot. mean, I give away a ton of content. mean, I put out a video every day. I've got about 850 videos online talking about the issues that we're discussing. Pete, if you go to my YouTube channel, I mean, they're all there for free. Now, every state's, you know, involuntary commitment laws are a little bit different. You know, we have a statute here called the Marchman Act, which allows which allows us to put somebody into treatment for chunks of 90 days when there's a primary substance use disorder. and there's very few states that have that, every state has a guardianship law. Every state has an involuntary commitment statute like the Baker Act, and they're not all that different. mean, if you look at Massachusetts, got section 12 and section 35. They're ⁓ that different from what we have. I don't think they're as good, but not that different. ⁓ I if you're in your own state, I would just Google involuntary commitment statutes, ⁓ Texas, involuntary commitment statutes, Alabama, wherever you happen to be, and see where that brings up. Even on Google, that should bring up some laws, some statutes for you to take a look at. And you might find a law up there who's dealing with them. I don't know anybody who has quite what we have, but there's a guardianship statute in every state, so there must be somebody handling those kinds of cases. Whether or not those states will allow you to use them for a behavioral health issue is a different, is really a different ball game. A lot of states, and I've seen this, when we get calls from other states, Pete: Yeah. Mark Astor: they're not going to let you file for guardianship over a behavioral health case. They just won't. Like it's for the elderly people. Sorry. We don't, know, too bad. Nothing we can do. Pete: Yeah, that's so wild, though. I but I get it, though, because it's, you know, certain states have different statues and things like that, too. And it's just it's just interesting to hear because, you know, everybody doesn't realize they have rights and the different things that happen. You know, so it's great to hear that you guys are doing what you can. Do you have any plans to expand other states? Is that maybe the down the road picture? Mark Astor: ⁓ We're talking about it. mean, I'm about in Massachusetts, so I think that's the next one. But of my employees is a Texas lawyer, so maybe Texas. Maybe they'll come banging on your door and we can corroborate. Yeah. Pete: Hey, there we go. Right. That's what I'm talking about. That's I'm saying. Definitely. For sure. If you make it to Texas, let me know, man. I got a few other mental podcasts are down here. I we're big on all that kind of stuff. We'd love to have, you know, add you as resource for everybody to find, you know, and there's another woman, she made a website that's really great for mental health people called the help hub.co. Lisa Sugarman put this whole thing. It's called the help hub.co. Mark Astor: What's it called? Pete: It's a real good site. She's like, it's like for mental health, like in general, like it breaks it down by everything else and things like that too, you know, and stuff like that. Maybe Lisa Sugarman is actually the one that runs it. She, ⁓ she was a guest on the show and she, ⁓ she put this like, basically put this website of all the information you could use for mental health on there for like even religiously different ethnic groups and things like that. She took all the time to figure this all out for you. I know she got partnered with recovery.com as well. Now recently, I know that happened over the last year. and things like that too. But she's a great resource to have for that kind of thing. Maybe get you guys yourself thrown on that site as well for Florida. And then as you guys expand, keep adding in different branches where people can get into. It'd be really cool to see though, because then we'll know that somebody's out there fighting for us. Because clearly they're scared of you, because every time they see you, they're like, hell no, we don't want no part of this issue. Mark Astor: Yeah, well, I'm not trying to scare anybody. I'm just trying to be a strong advocate for whose rights are getting trampled on. Pete: Yeah, no, I know. agree. And we love it. That's what I'm saying. I'm a big mental health advocate. I've been ever since I started the show. That's my big thing is to get people to talk more about their mental health and things like that. You know, and it's great to know we have people like yourself out there that are helping people in the fact that you're going to start expanding in other states. That's that's really going to be great, too, because I'm looking forward to see where else you end up, you know, things like that, too, because then I can add you to my list of resources for people like, listen, you'd help reach out to Mark's law firm. He can help you out in these situations, especially in the guardianship situation type thing. He gets a lot of people don't. don't know what to do for those loved ones when they have to take over for them. some of them can't, it just depends. They can't advocate for themselves because ⁓ on whatever condition they have, sometimes they're not able to do it for themselves and they need to know where they can go to fight and have somebody to fight for them too. Mark Astor: Yeah, I appreciate those kind words, Pete. I really do. Pete: So Mark, we're at the part of the interview where I ask two questions, okay? So these are pretty, this first one's actually a real fun one, okay? So my question to you is that if your mental health had a song, what would you say that song was being? Now you could break it down however you like. Mark Astor: ⁓ you know, it's interesting. I think, I think of the Rocky movie and I'm going to tell you why. so, know, there's a scene and I think it's in Rocky four ⁓ he's outside his restaurant. He's talking to his son and the son is saying to him, you know, please don't take the fight. You're making me look bad. And, know, ⁓ Rocky to the son, you know, it doesn't matter how tough you are, you know, life will beat you down, right? It will put you on your backside and what life is really about is either you're going to sit on the floor and cry or you're going to get up and you're going to fight. And he says, that's how winning's done. And I always, I always, I always think about it. knew when I was, you know, tapped out and had nothing and I was dealing with my father's, you know, situation, you know, I think at that point I decided to, to fight. So I guess I had the tiger is, is, is, would be my song, right? Because I, I had moments of just, you know, total I don't know, loss, feeling very lost, know, especially when I lost my dad and you know, every once in while I have a moment too. So, but I think, you know, it's about having the eye of the tiger. that doesn't, and I, but that also means that it's okay to ask for help. When I went through my divorce, I asked for help. I went, I went and saw a therapist. When my business was struggling, I went and so I told you I worked for that company. Two years ago, I went back to them as a client. Pete: Mm-hmm. Mark Astor: They helped us over the last two years. So it's okay to ask for help. know, I can't tell you, Pete, how many lawyers I've put a number of lawyers into treatment. ⁓ know, the legal profession, lawyers are twice as likely to develop a behavioral health issue. I'm probably half as likely to ask for help. I get calls from lawyers all the time. They're family members. I've represented a judge. I've had calls from other judges. I lecture to lawyers all the time about getting help. It's a real problem in the legal profession. The problem is that most lawyers are too... pig-headed. don't know if that's insulting, if it is, too bad. They are. They're too pig-headed to ask for help. They're too proud. And that might be a male thing too, by the way, because men are half as likely to ask for help as women. I think statistically it bears that out. But as lawyers, we think we can solve everybody's problems, even if it's something we're not even ⁓ competent to handle. You charged with murder, I got you. You're getting divorced, I got you. Been in a car accident, no problem. No. Pete: I mean, it is what it is. You're saying the truth. mean, you can't... Mark Astor: Okay, as lawyers, unless you are, even if you are a clinician, you are not set up to handle your own behavioral health issue. You gotta go to somebody who can help you. And it's okay to ask. It's not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of strength. And a sign of compassion and love. Maybe for somebody else, but also for yourself when you're struggling. And we all have those moments, myself included. Pete: I absolutely love it, Mark. I absolutely love it. Those are such great words to say because we as men don't talk enough about our mental health. know, the thing that jarred me to start this podcast is when I looked at the suicide rates in men and at my age, it's the second most likely to commit suicide. We're less likely to talk about it. And the reason why a lot of times is because when we talk, when we talk about it, everyone either likes to tell you to be quiet or they just, they judge you and say, you're not a man because you're discussing your feelings. Really. You asking for help is a stronger move than sitting there and saying nothing and just something happening, unfortunately, to you. Mark Astor: Yeah, I agree with you. Pete: You know, and it's just crazy that that's how we have to look at things. But, you know, thank you so much for coming to hang out with us today. I appreciate everything you're doing. Like I said, man, if you make it to Texas, let me know, man. We'd love to amp you up and let people know where to find you and things like that, too. So the last question I have for you and the reason I started this whole podcast is that if you could break the stigma about mental health. Now, when I say this to you, I mean, like the things that you just like see people say and you're like, Jesus, man, can you just stop believing that? What would you say that one thing would be? Mark Astor: My dogs are charming and would say that having behavioral health issue, substance use, mental illness ⁓ is a choice. It's not something somebody chooses to have. It's a disease. Okay? Nobody chooses to get sick. And when you look at it like that and you understand it's a brain disease, then we can focus on solving the problem. and getting this person some help. But nobody chooses to be sick. It's like saying, well, you know, I chose to have cancer that last week. Nobody chooses to be sick. And I think that's, that's. That's where the compassion has to come in, right? And look, we had a president who had a substance use disorder, George W. Bush. Politics aside, the man was an alcoholic. It's pretty well documented, he was in recovery. Robert F. Kennedy, again, in recovery, and he's talked about it. So, I mean, it can affect anybody. I just did a video yesterday about ⁓ LaBeouf, the actor, got arrested I think twice in the same night for, you know. I think he was drunk and screaming out homophobic slurs. ⁓ point is that nobody chooses to be like this. And they asked him, why does this keep happening? And he told them, I think I have an ego problem. I have a Napoleonic complex. No, has a substance use disorder. You see, in complete and utter denial. And that is part of the disease, right? Is not being, is. Pete: Yeah. Mark Astor: is not being able to comprehend your own health issue, right? That's part of the disease. ⁓ he's not a bad guy. He's made some very bad decisions and probably has some bad actions, but he's got a disease. And until somebody steps up and makes the decision that he cannot make, which is to save him, this is gonna continue. And see, eventually, he's gonna come across the wrong guy that's gonna put him on his butt, and he's gonna meet the wrong judge that's gonna throw him in prison. That's what happens. See, eventually the state will step in and they will take him and they will make the decision that somebody else that could have made didn't make, which was to save him. And the state will do it. They will. They'll lock him up. They will. They'll lock him up. Pete: true. Yeah, very true. If you think about it, too, Lindsay Lohan was on that list of people, too. She went through a lot of stuff, you know, and things like that. A lot of the childhood stars you think about it, lot of me think about the guy from the Danny from the Partridge family. He has a history of problems, too, as well and things like that. So. Mm hmm. You know, it was the list goes on, man, just like the things and it's like nobody stepping into saying anything and helping them. And it's like they all stand by and go, oh, well, what could I done? You could have said something. You could have not sat there and watched him self destruct or. Mark Astor: Yeah? I think, what's his name, David Caster? He also had a drinking problem. Pete: When you he was self-destructing, help the poor guy. He can't help himself. And for you to expect him to help himself is crazy because he can't make right decisions for himself. Like you were saying, for Shy's, Shy the bus situation too, it's like somebody do something for the poor guy. He's clearly struggling, help him. Because he ain't going to help himself because he can't. He doesn't know what to do better. That's why somebody needs to step in and say something. But with that being said, Mark, I appreciate you being here and hanging out with us today. ⁓ Mark Astor: Thank you for having me, Pete. Pete: before we start signing off, go ahead and let me know where they can find you. Anybody in the state of Florida that can hit you up, let them know about the YouTube channel, let them know wherever the best places are to find you. Mark Astor: Yeah, so our main website is mentalhealthaddictionlawfirm.com. That's mentalhealthaddictionlawfirm.com. our main website. Or just Google me, Mark Astor. And know that you butchered my wife's name. I'm sure she'll forgive you. Our YouTube channel is under Astor Simovich Law. But if you just Google me, it'll bring up all the videos. There's 820 odd ⁓ videos there right now talking all about what we've been discussing here, So ⁓ out there. Pete: Right, exactly. So I love it, Mark, though. I love it, man. I absolutely love it. Thank you again so for being in today. I appreciate you coming in and hanging out with us. Share us the knowledge of what you have, man. And like I said, I look forward to let me know if you hit floor you hit Texas over here, man. I love to know it. And like I said, we'll get together. All right, man. Well, we're going to sign this thing off, guys. It is we always say here. Thank you for choosing Pete for his anxiety, guys. I'm Pete for anxiety. You can find me on Spotify all the way down the pan or radio. I'm an ex. I'll be down to tick tock. And as always, say it costs nothing absolutely to be kind to somebody. Mark Astor: I'll let you know. Pete: What kind of act can you to save someone's life or hell, can make their day. I'm Pete, for this anxiety sign off scene, don't ask how your day is today, say hey, how's your mental health?