Latest / Salem Podcast Network / Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags - James Talarico Is WRONG About the Bible — Dinesh D’Souza Explains Why

Transcript

Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags - James Talarico Is WRONG About the Bible — Dinesh D’Souza Explains Why · Salem Podcast Network

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The U.S. Senate candidate out of the great state of
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Texas recently, and he calls himself a Christian, James Tallarico,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: said literally he was against any sort of history class
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: teaching anything from the Bible because the Bible, he says,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: is only trying to indoctrinate people. It's only one version
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: of the truth according to some people. And I'm going,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: wait a second. If you're a Christian, by the way,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I've got Dinesh D'Souza here, incredible movie maker, incredible movie producer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: He's a great writer. Go and see him anywhere that
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: he's out there on the speaking tour. Dinesh, good to
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: see you. How are you?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Hey, Joe, it's a pleasure. Great to be with you.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: So we both live in Texas, and Tallarico literally said this, Dinesh.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: He said, we shouldn't be indoctrinating children in Texas schools
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: with only one version of history. Now, here's a guy
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: who's a Christian. I'm a Christian. You're a Christian. We
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: believe that what the Bible says is historically true. But
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: then again, there is a case to be made. Is
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: it really true? Does he have a point that we
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: can't use the Bible as an historical text? And is
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: there something in your book that's out now, the stones
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: cry out, that would suggest he's dead wrong.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Yes. So the Bible has been subject to 150 years
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: of withering archaeological scrutiny.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: And this, by the way, has not been done with
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: any other religious text. Nobody has tried to archaeologically check
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: the Koran or the Book of Mormon or the Hindu
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: scriptures or the Buddhist scriptures. Right. The very idea of
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: it is sort of preposterous, but for the Bible, and
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: let's remember that the Bible does have sort of supernatural claims,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: miraculous claims, theological claims, but it's also dense with history.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Starting with Abraham, this is about 2000 BC, and going
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: all the way through Jesus and the early Christian movement,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: this is about 50 AD. So the Bible is covering
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: over 2,000 years. It's also covering a number of different nations,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: not just Israel, but also Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Mesopotamia, which
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: is modern-day Iraq, and then in the New Testament, Greece, Rome, Turkey.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: So it's a pretty wide timescale and a pretty broad
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: geographical landscape. And you can imagine the thousands of artifacts
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: that have been uncovered in all these places. that relate
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: to the Bible. Well, guess what? There are now truly
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: hundreds of artifacts that confirm the historicity of the Bible.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: And here's the punchline. There's not a single significant archaeological
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: discovery in over a century that contradicts the Bible. So
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: right away, to me, that puts the Bible kind of
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: in a league of its own.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: So you're telling me that what's in the Bible that
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: many call mythology, you and I don't call it that,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: we believe it to be true. James Tallarico, if he's
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: a Christian, should also believe it to be true. You're
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: telling me that it's not just our belief system. Scientifically,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: it's now being proven that what's in the Bible is true,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: factually true, scientifically true.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Yes. I would say that let's put aside the kind
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: of primeval history of the Bible, which is like the
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: creation of the universe, because obviously none of us were there,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: the Garden of Eden. I want to start with the
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: historical part of the Bible, which is Abraham and the patriarchs.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And then I'll go all the way through the Exodus, Moses,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: the crossing into the Promised Land with Joshua, later the
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: great Israelite kings, David and Solomon, the era of the prophets,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: which is Isaiah, the 8th century B.C., Jeremiah, the 6th
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: century BC, Daniel a little bit later, and then, of course,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: the archaeology around Jesus. There's a tremendous amount of discoveries
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: related to Jesus and the other major characters of the
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: New Testament. And all of this can be archaeologically corroborated. Now,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: I will admit that there are a number of things
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: that have not been found. Nobody has definitively found Noah's Ark.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Nobody has definitively found the Tower of Babel. No one
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: has definitively located the Ark of the Covenant. It clearly existed,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: but we can't find it now. But there are a
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: number of personalities, events, places. And we're not just talking
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: about major figures. You know, archaeologists will find a tiny
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: clay seal in Jerusalem. These seals are used to secure
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: correspondence and it'll have a name on it. And the
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: archaeologists won't even know who that guy is. But a
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: couple of years later, along comes a theology student who
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: looks at the seal and he goes, hey, that guy's
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: in the book of Jeremiah. And that guy might be
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: a guy who is mentioned once or occupies two lines
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: in the entire Bible. Most pastors have never heard of him.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: But suddenly that guy jumps into the pages of history
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: via the pathway of archaeology. So my book kind of
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: follows a chronological pattern. It goes through the whole historical
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: chronology of the Bible and it drops in or parachutes
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: in all the artifacts. And so it's kind of mind
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: blowing as you read it. And the power of it
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: is cumulative. If you look at one thing, you could
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: be like, huh, but one upon another upon another, you
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: begin to go, wow, this is really unbelievable. As I say,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: no other text can withstand this kind of examination.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: The Stones Cry Out, biblical archaeology prophecy in the last days.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: It's out today. It's by Dinesh D'Souza. Go and grab
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: it where you get great books. Don't hesitate. So let
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: me finish up on Tallarico this way. If we were
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: to say, if you and I were on the school
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: board here in Texas and we said, Let's use the
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Bible as historical fact. We'll leave out and get on
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: your knees and pray to Jesus. We're not trying to
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: indoctrinate anybody that way or proselytize in class. You and
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I are against that. Of course, you can freely worship
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: as you want. But if we were to say these
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: things happen historically, we know so because the Bible says so.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: And then we say archaeologists agree scientifically that would be
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: fair game in school.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: No. It would be, and not only because of the
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: historicity of the Bible, but think about the politics of it, right?
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: The archaeology definitively shows the presence of the Jews in
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: their ancient homeland. I mean, just a week ago, and
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: there was a big article on Fox News, and I
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: was quoted in it, a mikvah, a ritual bath, this was,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: by the way, the size of a small room, was
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: lifted intact out of the ground. 25 tons, by the way.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: And this is where the Jews would ritually bathe before
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: they went to the temple. It was dated to about
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: the time of Jesus. So you can't look at all
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: this stuff coming out of the ground and not recognize
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: that the Jews were here. This was their land. And
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: so the idea that you keep hearing these days, the
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Jews are colonizers, doesn't make any sense against this archaeological backdrop.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I think it's also worth noting that the principles of
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: America and the West are anchored in Athens and Jerusalem.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: And what biblical archaeology does is it supports the Jerusalem
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: pillar of Western civilization. So in other words, it's relevant
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: to America and the West, and that's another good reason
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: to teach it.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: DineshD'Souza.com. He's my good friend, Dinesh D'Souza. Get his book.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: It's called The Stone's Cry Out. It is out today.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: As we're watching this unfold, it is a very good
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: bit of timing. I'm not sure if you did this
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: on purpose, but that it's three years after October 7th.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: And you're right. The arguments get loud. They get nasty.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: They get stupid. River to the sea starts coming out again.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: You're a bunch of colonizers. You guys stole the land.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: It's all stolen land. Dinesh, let me ask you something
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: that might sound kind of silly at first, but I
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: think that it bears answering. And I think you probably
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: have some good answers to this. Who do we give
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: the land back to? I've never understood that. Who are
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the indigenous people here in the United States when we
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: find through DNA they were from Asia and Europe? So,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, they came across the Bering Strait at some point,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: you know, historically. Who do we give the land back to?
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Which Indian tribe gets it here in America? Who do
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: we give it back to over in that region that
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: is now Israel and what would be Palestine if they
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: could just stop fighting? I mean, I would make a
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: good argument that if you go back 3,000 years, the
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Israelites get it back. The Canaanites get it back. The
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Jews get it back. But if you make that argument,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: you suck because you're only allowed to look back 80 years.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: So in this country where you and I live, we
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: have to go back five, six, 700 years. That would
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: make everybody feel good. But in that area, you can
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: only go back 80 years because that's who gets it back.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Forget the 3,000-year history. Please make that make sense to me.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Who gets it back?
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Well, number one, if you have a piece of land
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: and it's yours... and you decide to leave voluntarily, and
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: somebody else occupies the land, a good case can be
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: made that now it belongs to them. But the important
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: thing to realize is the Jews never left voluntarily. They
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: were always kicked out, pushed out, expelled. This created what
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: we call the Jewish diaspora. So the Jews were merely
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: returning to the land that was theirs that they never
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: gave up. They never relinquished. Now, generally, if you look
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: at the maps of the world and ask a broad question,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: how does anybody anywhere get a title deed to a
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: piece of land? Like, where did the Irish get the
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: right to Ireland? The general answer is one of three ways.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Either you were there first, or you got the land
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: by some sort of treaty, or you conquered it. Every
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: map in the world that I know of is drawn
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: based upon a recognition of one or more of these
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: three kind of claims. And what's interesting about the Jews
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: is that they succeed on all fronts. They were there first, click.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: They got the land from the United Nations at the
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: end of World War II by treaty, click or check.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: And third, they fought multiple wars to hold that land
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: against often very unified Arab opposition, and they've won all
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: of them. So by all three boxes, the Israelites or
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: the Jews have a legitimate claim to the land. It's
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: much stronger than the white man's claim to America, because
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: while the white man may have conquered the land, he
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: wasn't there first.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Let's be honest. A lot of what comes out of
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Hollywood these days makes a mockery of America. Somehow we're
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: the bad guys. They make a mockery of our history,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: our values, our faith. There's still a place telling stories,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: real stories, that remind us what makes America, the United States,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: worth celebrating. That place is Angel Studios. They're creating unapologetically
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: patriotic films and shows, original films and shows that uplift, educate,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: and inspire. Like Sound of Freedom. Have you checked that
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: out yet? A powerful true story that exposed the horrors
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: of child trafficking and inspired millions to take action. Something
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: to stand for with Mike Rowe. Have you seen this?
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: An incredible tribute to ordinary Americans who risked everything to
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: defend liberty. And The Last Rodeo, an upcoming heartland drama
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: about a bull riding veteran who comes out of retirement
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: to save his grandson. It's faith. It's grit. It's the
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: kind of storytelling Hollywood forgot how to do. These aren't
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: just good films. They are cultural reset buttons. And when
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: you join the Angel Guild, you don't just stream entertainment.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: You help to create it. You vote on what gets made.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: You support filmmakers who still believe in this great land, America.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: And as a premium member, you get two free tickets
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: to every theatrical release, and that's awesome. So if you're
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: ready to support entertainment that celebrates faith, family, community, and freedom,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: go to angel.com slash PAGS right now. Angel.com slash PAGS.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Become a premium Angel Guild member today. Support entertainment that
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: builds something worth passing on. It's such a good point.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: And again, you don't know who you give it back to,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Unless you're a lefty and it's the people I feel
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: best about. And you couldn't say Happy Columbus Day the
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: other day because F Columbus, he was a bad guy
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: and genocide. And they're just making it up as they go.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: It's so strange. That's why I love that your book,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: The Stones Cry Out, is an archaeological look at what
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: the Bible says. And you say, as they continue digging
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: in the Holy Land and the region, they keep on
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: finding more things that prove the Bible right. So if
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the Bible was right, and I want you to tell
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: me some more, you know, if you don't mind, anecdotes
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: from the book. that's actually empirical evidence, not really anecdotal.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: If they continue to get it right now, what do
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: we know about what's to come? And I want to
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: get to that in a second. But what can you
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: tell me about what's being found that those who are
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: watching and listening, it would just blow their minds. What
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: do we now know as fact that historically by scientists
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: has been called rumor or fake or religious belief?
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: So think of the great scene of Jesus's trial and crucifixion.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: The major figures are King Herod, Pontius Pilate, the Roman prefect,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: the high priest named Caiaphas, and the accused man, Jesus. Now,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: there's really good and interesting archaeology on all four, but
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: I'm going to focus for a moment just on the
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: high priest, Caiaphas. The Bible only gives him one name, Caiaphas,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: but the historian Josephus tells us his first name, Joseph.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: He's Joseph Caiaphas. Remember, this is the guy who orchestrates
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: the crucifixion. When Jesus is arrested, he's taken to the
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: home of Caiaphas. Caiaphas is the one who persuades Pilate,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: almost pressures him to sign off on the crucifixion, which
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Pilate is reluctant to do. So you got this guy, Caiaphas,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: like a villain of the Bible. Now, fast forward 2,500 years,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: and they're digging in the priestly quarter of Jerusalem. And
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: out of the ground come these stone boxes that are
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: called ossuaries. Now, in the first century AD, if you died,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: you were buried in a tomb, and when your body decayed,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: the bones are taken out and put in a box,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: and your name is stuck on them. Oh, wow. And
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: so these archaeologists are looking at these boxes. There are
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: about 20 of them, and one of them is especially ornate,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: and it has a name. And they look more closely,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: and it says this, Yehoshaph bar Kayaphah. So Yehoshaph is Joseph.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Bar means son of. Kayaphah? Caiaphas. So they open the
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: box and inside, Joe, are the bones of a 60
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: year old man. And they date the bones and they
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: date to the first century A.D. So it's him. And
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: the remarkable thing is you're not just looking at some
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: writing or some reference in a history book or some
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: even some stone inscription. You're looking at the bones of
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: the guy who got Jesus crucified.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: That is stunning because there are people who would say, ah, Mary, Joseph, Jesus,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: it's a fable. And you're going, no, no, no, we
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: have the box of bones here. I never even heard,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: what's it called, an ossuary? What did you say it is?
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, an ossuary is just a term for a stone
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: box in which bones were stored. And so you find
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: that these ossuaries are put into small niches, you know,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: and they're buried because they don't take up much space.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: And this was the custom in the first century A.D.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: That is amazing. So you've got proof. And when somebody says, no,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: it didn't happen, it definitely happened. Now, that doesn't mean
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: you have to believe that Jesus is God. We do.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that somebody reading Archaeological Digest or
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: some sort of science magazine has to believe that. But
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: fact is fact is fact. And, of course, we should
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: be teaching that. And Dinesh teaches in everything he does.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Go check out The Stone's Cry Out. Biblical Archaeology Prophecy
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: in the Last Days. It's out now. It came out today.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Go get it anywhere you get great books. So as
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: this is unfolding, I asked the question going into that,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: that was sort of the secondary part of that. So
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: we're finding out that more and more of what the
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Bible tells us is now provably true unreligiously. So what
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: does that tell us about the future? Are we starting
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to see some things unfold even today and that we
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: could expect in the near future because of what the
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Bible says?
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I would love to see if somebody would find the
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Ark of the Covenant. Noah's Ark, there is a site
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: in the mountains of Turkey where there is a boat-shaped structure.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: This has never been excavated. And for the first time,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: they're doing something called core drilling. So they've done these
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: radar scans, but radar scans are nothing more than pictures
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: in light. A core drilling involves putting a pipe into
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: the ground and sucking out all the material. So let
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: me just say, if there are the remains of ancient
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: wood that come out of this core drilling, which means
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: that there's perhaps a boat-like structure under the ground. Let's remember,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: this is in the mountains of Ararat, not even close
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: to any sea or ocean. That would create a worldwide sensation.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: It would.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: And then I still think people would be naysayers. So
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: how do you get through to a naysayer, Dinesh? People
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: will still say, Dinesh is full of crap. He put
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: it in the book. Yeah, whatever. Archaeologists kind of agree,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: but they don't. Let's shoot some holes in this. How
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: do you get through to somebody who is so completely
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: indoctrinated to be a naysayer in anything religious, on anything biblical,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: on anything that can be historically tied to those times?
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: They really do, like, they will jump off a cliff
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: rather than say, D'Souza got it right. How do you
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: get through to that person? And again, this isn't about
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: converting them. This is about saying, hey, this can be
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: a religious and an historical text. They can both They
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: can live together. It's not somehow mutually exclusive. It's either
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: one or the other. How do you get through to them?
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Have you gotten through to some people like that?
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And the way you do it is you have
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: to approach them in a very reasonable way and say, look,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: there are some things that you don't believe that I
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: can show you to be definitively true. There are other
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: things that you don't believe that I can show you
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: are probably not true. And For many, many decades, you had,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I call them armchair skeptics. These would be like academics
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: in Europe or America. Like sitting in my armchair, I
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: don't believe that David could have killed Goliath. Or sitting
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: in my armchair, I don't think that Samson could have
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: pulled down the temple, right? Now, I can show you
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: and come and say, look, when you think of a temple,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: you probably think of something huge, a multi-story building. Obviously,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: it's ridiculous to think that a man could pull that down.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: But I'll show you that in the area called Philistia,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: where the Philistines were, if you look at the Philistine temples,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: they're really small. And they're held up by these two
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: wooden pillars that are only about five feet apart. A
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: strong and large man can reach these two wooden pillars
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: by standing in the middle. And so while I can't
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: prove to you that Samson pulled down that particular temple,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I can now show you that it's quite plausible for
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: a strong man to uproot the wooden pillars holding up
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: a Philistine temple that would cause that temple to crash
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: to the ground. It's not unbelievable once you see the
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: ruins of an actual temple.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Well, it's very interesting because the skeptics would say you
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: can't possibly pull down a temple when we think about
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: a temple like you said. It's a large structure. Not
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: one man couldn't do that. That'd be ridiculous. But really,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: deep believers are like, it's the biggest temple ever. And
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: because of God's will, he tore it down. I think
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: what you say is the most sensible. I'm a big guy,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: you know, 6'1, 250. I can probably rip down a
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: tent that somebody's calling a temple without even trying very hard.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: And that makes perfect sense. I wonder why we don't
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: teach that more often. Because do you agree with me
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: that it's two-sided? It's double-sided. One side, we're skeptical. No
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: way a guy can do that. The other side, of
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: course he did that because God gave him the strength
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: to do it when the reality might be in the
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: middle somewhere.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: No, I agree. I think that the Bible... You know,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I sometimes talk about the secret Bible, by which I
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: mean the Bible that is not often taught in church. Solomon,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: for example, is described in the Bible as a wise
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: king and also a very rich and powerful man. king.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: And he's often taught that way, right? Solomon, we think
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: of as a kind of model of wisdom. But Solomon
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: was also an extremely ruthless king. And the first thing
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: that he did when he became king is he rounded
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: up all his opponents and had them executed. And this
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: is also in the Bible. The from the brutal realities
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: of human nature. But oddly enough, a much softer Bible
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: is taught in the Christian world. I think that the
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: real Bible sort of grit, the real Bible, which unflinchingly
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: looks at human nature and human sin. I mean, here
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: is this guy, David, you know, he sees this woman,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: he just wants to grab her. He doesn't care that
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: she has a husband. He sends that guy to the
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: front line to be killed. I mean, the Bible is
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: very unflinching in the face of human brutality, human sexuality, lust, hatred, revenge.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: All of that's in the Bible. I would like to
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: see sort of that Bible highlighted a little bit more
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: than the kind of children's version of the Bible that
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: we often get in church.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Well, Dinesh, people would actually be turned on to it
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: more if it were more understandable and more realistic. Like,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: tell me about David and Goliath. Was David four foot
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: nine and Goliath eight foot two? What do we know
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: about that archaeologically? Have we found anything out scientifically about
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: who those two people were?
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Now, the location of that battle is known. It is
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: also known that in ancient warfare, sometimes battles were settled
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: by a one-on-one fight. Because when you first read the story,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: you're like, well, you've got two armies. Why would each
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: army send one guy to fight as if the fate
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: of the whole battle hinges on this sort of man-against-man fight?
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: But it turns out that we find in ancient literature, including,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: by the way, in Homer's Iliad, where Menelaus challenges Paris
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: to a duel. Basically, Menelaus tells Paris, he goes, listen,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: why don't you and I fight? And on the fate
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: of our battle hinges the whole battle. And if you
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: defeat me, the Greeks will go home. I mean, this
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: isn't the Iliad. So the point being that the nature
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: of this fight, one-on-one, not only that, but having studied
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: ancient warfare, archaeologists will tell you that the slingshot was
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: a very deadly weapon. And it was a weapon that
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: gave the small man an advantage over the strong man. Obviously,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: the small man would not be able to withstand a
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Goliath if you're fighting, say, with a sword. But what
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: David did was he was far away and he became
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: an expert at being able to essentially sling a rock
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: and fire it at this guy's forehead. And that, in fact,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: is known to be one of the ways in which
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: ancient warfare was conducted, particularly by groups that were not
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: as large as their opponents. Right.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. I mean, I'm 60 now. I
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: know I look 40, but I've always learned that it
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: was a guy standing next to a guy and somehow
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: the little guy beat the big guy. But what you
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: just said makes so much sense. It was a deadly weapon.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: You could do it from far away because you're right.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: If the big guy got the little guy close to him,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: he's going to take him apart. So, I mean, that
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. Why do you think we're
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: not taught that more? Is it that mythology that I
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: talked about earlier that, you know, with God's will, you
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: can know the mustard seeds, you know, worth of faith,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: you can move a mountain. I mean, all of that
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: is great, and I believe in it. Don't get me wrong.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's more plausible, and you
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: would bring more people into the tent if you said, well,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: of course David was 20 yards away.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: You know, you may be right. You said a few
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: moments ago this notion that maybe even from the Christian perspective,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: it seems more miraculous if it's more implausible. But the
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Bible actually doesn't go to the miraculous here. The Bible,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: in fact, King David... And King Saul, who was the
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: king at the time, is very worried. He tells David, listen,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: you can't fight this guy, Goliath. He says, this guy
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: has been a warrior since he was a kid. He
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: was a child soldier. He goes, you can't defeat him.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: And David basically goes, well, I'm called by God. I'm
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: going to do it. But then David thinks of the
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: way to do it, which is, again, not to run
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: rashly at Goliath and try to overpower him, which, again,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: would be ridiculous, but rather to use the technique of
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: the slingshot. Now, by the way, once Goliath falls to
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: the ground, David runs up to him, takes Goliath's sword,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: and chops off his head. But that's when Goliath has
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: already been knocked down by the slingshot.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: The Stones Cry Out Biblical Archaeology Prophecy in the Last Days.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: It's out today. It's Dinesh D'Souza. He is the writer.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Go to DineshD'Souza.com as well. Check out anything that he does,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: podcasts and everything else too. It's very interesting. It's got
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: my little brain working because I'm guessing the Bible doesn't
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: make it mythological. I think the Bible probably says what
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: it says and says what you just reported, and then
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: we want to make it supernatural. Is that the take
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: that I'm getting from you?
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, there are certain supernatural elements in the Bible
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: that are clearly delineated to be that way. Just like,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: for example, with Jesus, there are certain things in the
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Bible that are obviously parables. Jesus goes, well, let me
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: give you the case of a rich man and a
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: poor man. And this is obviously a parable. At other times,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: the Bible is talking about things that Jesus said and did.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: that are not parables. So I think what you do
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: with archaeology and history is separate out something that's a
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: parable from something that's part of an historical narrative. And
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: the Bible is actually pretty clear which is which.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: That's very interesting. In the book, do you at all
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: go to supernatural stuff that we're trying to figure out
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: like UFOs or what do we call them? UPCs or something.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I forget what name we're calling them now, but at
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, we believe, look, I'm an
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: open-minded guy. I'm not so, so arrogant to think we're
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: the only living beings in the universe or in space anywhere.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Will we find anything? Can we glean anything from your
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: book through archeology, through biblical prophecy and so on about
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: what we're seeing? And it's more and more every day
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: we're hearing about these UFOs.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Well, I will say that the book does suggest that
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: we are entering a sort of prophetic final age. Now,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I don't try to put a date on it. I
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: don't try to give you a blow by blow of
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: what it means. But I think that there are several
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: biblical signs that are pointing to prophetically the end times.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: One of them, by the way, is the archaeology itself.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Think about it this way. King David's palace has sat
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: under the ground. pretty much from the immediate aftermath of
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: David's own time, which is about 1000 BC. So for
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: 3000 years, this stuff, this whole palace has been under
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: the ground. It's come out of the ground in the
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: 21st century. So why now? Like, why is God crying
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: out or speaking through the stones in our time? It's
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: almost like God having previously used this kind of oracular
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: language of the Bible is now speaking through the kind
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: of quiet language language of the dirt and objects coming
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: out of the ground. So I think it's significant that
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: the stones are crying out more and more urgently in
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: our time.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. The stones cry out biblical archaeology
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: prophecy in the last days. It's Dinesh D'Souza. It's out today.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Let me finish with this. I'm guessing that you didn't
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: want to wait 200 years to write the book, but
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: I'm also guessing that science continues, archaeology continues, and it's
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: what you have in the book and what's proven now
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: to be true biblically and historically, that's going to be awesome.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: But I'm guessing there's more work being done. What might
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: be popping up now since you've written the book in
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: the holy area that continues this sort of pace of
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: here's what the Bible says, here's the truth of it all?
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing it's still going on.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Well, there are discoveries that come out every, almost seems
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: every week, but certainly every month, certainly every year. And
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: I think, think of the possibilities, Joe, of AI and robotics,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: because there are many things that archaeologists, not that they
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: can't do it, but they do it very slowly. Let's
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: say you pull a seal out of the ground and
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: it has an obscure name. It sometimes takes three years
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: to figure out who that guy is, or even what
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: exactly is on the seal. The beauty of artificial intelligence is, A,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: it can read the seal. B, it'll run a quick
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: search through an entire concordance of the Bible, for example.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: If that guy is in the Bible, the AI will
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: tell you within minutes, if not seconds. And so the
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: ability of artificial intelligence to see things, to record them,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: to photograph them, to classify them, I think it's going
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: to take us into a golden age of archaeology in
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: the next couple of decades.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Let me finish with this. It's sort of on those
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: same lines. Why are they doing it? Why are scientists
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: or archaeologists even looking into this? Was it because they
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: wanted to disprove the Bible and they found out 180
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: degrees different?
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: It is true that when biblical archaeology started in the
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: 19th century, a lot of skeptics were really excited because
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: they were like, we know, we presume that the Bible
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: was written much later than the events it talks about.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: So we know there's a bunch of myth and legend
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: in there and aha, This archaeology is going to be
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: a great battering ram to expose and discredit the Bible.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: So that's what they were hoping they would get. Now,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: remember that there's archaeology going on in all ancient civilizations.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: It's a worldwide enterprise. There's digging going in India, in China,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: in Tibet, in, of course, Egypt to discover the land
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: of the pharaohs. So biblical archaeology is a subdivision of that.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: It is the part of archaeology. Some people just like
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: to call it Near Eastern archaeology. It's the archaeology that
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: relates to the time and places and events described in
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: the Bible.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: It is, Dinesh, as soon as the book is, The
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Stones Cry Out, Biblical Archaeology, Prophecy, and The Last Days.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: It is out today. Go and get it. Go get
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: five copies and send them to your friends and your neighbors. Dinesh,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the time and the incredible knowledge as always.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Thanks for making time today.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Joe, always a pleasure. Thank you.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you. That's it for this one. Make sure
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: that you subscribe. Another Unshaken and Unafraid with Joe Pax
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: to drop very soon.