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Fox and the Big Lie · Conspiracy! The Show

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy The Show, the world's most trusted conspiracy
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Speaker 1: daary podcast, with your hosts Adam Todd Brown and Olivia Hidar.
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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy The Show. I'm your host,
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Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown joining me as special guest co host.
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Speaker 2: This week, Samantha Jane is here. How's it going, Samantha,
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Speaker 2: how's it going?
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Speaker 3: Okay? Okay, all right?
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Speaker 4: Excited to be in LA where we're not breathing in
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Speaker 4: wildfires right now.
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Speaker 3: Suck that New York.
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Speaker 2: How rare is it that New York is the one
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Speaker 2: on fire this time?
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Speaker 4: I mean it's because I'm one of the people that
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Speaker 4: you know, moved from New York to LA and a
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Speaker 4: lot of them are like, do you see this?
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Speaker 3: Do you see this?
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Speaker 5: La?
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Speaker 4: Like everything's a competition between us, so like our air
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Speaker 4: sucks too, okay.
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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but California bursts into flames like every winter.
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Speaker 3: Like you're hot right now, but we like are always hot.
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Speaker 2: Yeah exactly exactly. He's been on fire before New York.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, like you haven't been on fire.
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Speaker 2: We are covering a documentary about the twenty twenty election.
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Speaker 2: It's an ABC News Australia documentary.
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Speaker 4: But I did like that it was the Australians because
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Speaker 4: they were very invested in Rupert Murdoch and like, this
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Speaker 4: is why he went to Americas to do this fucked
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Speaker 4: up shit that you can't do here, to keep explaining
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Speaker 4: like it's different in America.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and normally I would, I mean not seriously have
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Speaker 2: the question. But it is tempting to be like, hey, Australia,
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Speaker 2: what do you fucking care? Why don't you make a
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Speaker 2: documentary about your own elections? But also, yeah, Rupert Murdoch
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Speaker 2: is from Australia, so they get to have a dog
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Speaker 2: in this fight.
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Speaker 4: And I have to say, first impression, I've been watching
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Speaker 4: a lot of Succession of trying to catch up.
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Speaker 3: I haven't quite finished, but.
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Speaker 4: I immediately was like, oh, this is this is all
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Speaker 4: the characters, Like this is the roy family. These are
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Speaker 4: the brothers fighting for who's gonnawn the company, And like
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Speaker 4: all of a sudden, I'm the good guy, but are you?
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Speaker 4: You're still like a rich go to it and like
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Speaker 4: literally the woman that runs Fox News, who's exactly like
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Speaker 4: the one.
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Speaker 3: That runs Agen. I was like, oh cool, it's like
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Speaker 3: the show.
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Speaker 2: And I think Succession might partially be based on the
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Speaker 2: Murdoch family. It wouldn't surprise that some inspiration there, I
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Speaker 2: think definitely.
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Speaker 4: I mean the minute I realized that, I was like, oh,
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Speaker 4: this is like, how you know, Citizen Kane is really
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Speaker 4: about whoever the newspaper guy was.
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Speaker 3: Then I forgot was it Hurst? That sounds right?
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Speaker 2: I don't know he was a newspaper guy, one.
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Speaker 3: Of those guys. A lot of things were named after.
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Speaker 2: This is a four Corners investigation. I don't know what
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Speaker 2: that means. It sounds like it's just a show within
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Speaker 2: ABC News Australia.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's like a dateline sort of a
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Speaker 4: this is what I would assume, you know.
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Speaker 2: With journalist Sarah Ferguson. That name sounded familiar, but I've
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Speaker 2: literally I am.
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Speaker 4: Well, that's because isn't Sarah Ferguson also the Duchess of York?
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Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, that's what I think I was thinking of.
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Speaker 4: I don't think this is the same one though, although
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Speaker 4: that would have been amazing. She stops in the middle
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Speaker 4: of pitch weight watches.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is actually Fergie from The Black Eyed Peas right.
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Speaker 3: Also, it should start a supergroup.
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Speaker 2: So a lot of this is about how Donald Trump
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Speaker 2: really caused a rift within Fox News, which shouldn't surprise
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Speaker 2: anyone because Donald Trump caused a rift in everything.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I wish that they had like almost played that
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Speaker 4: up more like they were so dry and you know,
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Speaker 4: news news like journalistic, but like you could tell they
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Speaker 4: really wanted to play on this angle of like the
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Speaker 4: rift between brothers.
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Speaker 3: And it tore apart his family.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, that's juicy.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of want to see that documentary or
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Speaker 2: just make it into a TV show.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, a question, but with accent. There was just so
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Speaker 4: little footage of the actual Murdoch brothers, you know, and
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Speaker 4: and Rupert. It was all like them speaking, you know,
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Speaker 4: except for that opening them as little kids, which I'm like, oh,
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Speaker 4: I thought we were going to go down a very
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Speaker 4: like netflixy kind of documentary and then it went dry
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Speaker 4: and realistic. The opening when they're asking the kid like,
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Speaker 4: what's a good thing about your father?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's like, uh, he takes us camping. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: we're going to put on that thread. What's going on here?
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Speaker 4: My favorite thing that daddy does is when he takes
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Speaker 4: us to the woods all alone, text us to.
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Speaker 2: The forest and we play games.
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Speaker 5: It was a very like plaiant pause for the Yeah,
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Speaker 5: the other kid and yeah, you really see those two
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Speaker 5: kids' personalities in that moment, because the other kid when
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Speaker 5: he answers, he's like.
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Speaker 2: The media is vilifying my dad, and it's like, calm down,
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Speaker 2: you fucking ten year old.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and the other one that goes the other one's.
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Speaker 2: Like he takes us camping? Yeah, why a British accent, But.
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Speaker 4: Those are the original Australia. She just went like too
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Speaker 4: far back. And then there's the one that defects later.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have questions about him. That's James Murder.
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Speaker 3: He strikes me as a very Kendel Roy is what
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Speaker 3: I got.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And they're like, oh, he's more moderate, and I'm like,
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Speaker 2: what does that mean? What does that mean? Coming from
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Speaker 2: someone who still wants to run Fox News as a
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Speaker 2: conservative outlet. It's like he probably still doesn't think trans
5:48
Speaker 2: people are people, but he just thinks the election wasn't stolen. Also,
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Speaker 2: so it's like, oh, okay, well you're moderate.
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Speaker 4: Then I feel like, yeah, that Kendall Roy vibe of like,
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Speaker 4: you know, I just picture myself as this good guy
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Speaker 4: in this white night, and I'm different and I'm going
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Speaker 4: to create change when they're the same people with the
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Speaker 4: same values.
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Speaker 2: Really, yeah, are like when people are like, isn't the
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Speaker 2: new Pope cool, it's like, no, he's the Pope. He's not.
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Speaker 2: I don't care if we listen to the same music.
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Speaker 2: He's still fucking pope.
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Speaker 5: Yeah.
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Speaker 4: I'm a man of the people, except I also just
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Speaker 4: want to run a different corporation and be like my
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Speaker 4: own boss and not be under my daddy.
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Speaker 2: Exactly.
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Speaker 3: I'm so different than my daddy.
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Speaker 2: They talk about the launch of Fox News that happened
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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six, and they had that fair and
6:31
Speaker 2: balanced tagline right away, which was always kind of lol.
6:36
Speaker 2: They were never fair and balanced.
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Speaker 3: But it's kind of like if you have to say
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Speaker 3: you are.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's not to say that the publications on
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Speaker 2: the other side are super fair and balanced. They just
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Speaker 2: know not to say that they are.
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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I took one journalism class in college,
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Speaker 4: so I feel pretty educated. Journalistic integrity, and you're always
7:01
Speaker 4: supposed to be aiming for the most objective view you
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Speaker 4: can do, but you know, everyone is subjective. You're always
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Speaker 4: going to have like your own you know, lenses coloring
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Speaker 4: how you see events, and you know, good journalists take
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Speaker 4: care to try and write that out, and you know,
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Speaker 4: editors will try and edit that out. But then you
7:22
Speaker 4: have things where like The New York Times will be like,
7:25
Speaker 4: we try and be so objective that they sometimes won't
7:29
Speaker 4: actually take the stance that humanity, which it's like, Okay,
7:32
Speaker 4: we also got a report that was a lot of
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Speaker 4: Donald Trump things. It's like, there was a quote someone said,
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Speaker 4: it's like it was their job to report what he
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Speaker 4: said and what his people said, but they didn't have
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Speaker 4: to package it and sell it and you know, be
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Speaker 4: on message with it, you know.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that I think speaks to a big problem
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Speaker 2: with the media in this country, which is that they
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Speaker 2: value access to the government a little too much, to
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Speaker 2: the point that it's like, well, if we criticize too much,
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Speaker 2: or if we like speculate on things that they haven't
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Speaker 2: officially told us, then we're just going to be barred
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Speaker 2: from the White House altogether, and then how do we
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Speaker 2: do our jaicely.
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Speaker 4: It's kind of like how TMZ is about, yeah, well
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Speaker 4: just all these and social media. It's like now that
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Speaker 4: it's about access and not just you know, being a
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Speaker 4: weird little reporter outside trying to like figure out what's
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Speaker 4: going on, and it's about getting access to interviews and
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Speaker 4: stuff if people are very I just I feel like
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Speaker 4: marketing has been so insidiously intertwined with journalism in a
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Speaker 4: way that is gross and people don't realize, like how
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Speaker 4: PR and public relations. I also took a class of prs,
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Speaker 4: so I'm like, really, people don't realize. A lot of
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Speaker 4: things get written as news are press releases. A press
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Speaker 4: release is sent out by someone's people that is the
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Speaker 4: official message they want out there, and a journalist should
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Speaker 4: get a press really maybe pull some quotes, tell people
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Speaker 4: that these are quotes coming from that person and their
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Speaker 4: advertising arm and it's like their messaging.
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Speaker 3: But a lot of times reporters are lazy and.
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Speaker 4: They will just pretty much copy and paste a press
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Speaker 4: release and sell it as reporting, which is literally just
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Speaker 4: being a funnel for a marketing team. You know, It's
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Speaker 4: like printing an advertisement but then saying it's news, and
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Speaker 4: like that's been happening for a long time in journalism.
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Speaker 2: When you start getting into doing that with like politics
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Speaker 2: and world events, then sometimes that marketing team is the CIA.
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Speaker 4: That's been I mean, honestly, Edra Burnees is like the
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Speaker 4: father of modern pr He was like Freud's nephew, so
9:40
Speaker 4: he was the first one that's like, you know, we
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Speaker 4: make people feel things, you can sell them ideas, you know,
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Speaker 4: not just products. And he worked for FDR selling the
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Speaker 4: New Deal to America. So this has actually been going
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Speaker 4: on pro long time. They're just getting like both like
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Speaker 4: horrifyingly good and also a little sloppy at the same time.
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Speaker 2: There's a book that I did a couple episodes of
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Speaker 2: this podcast about that's called The CIA and the Cult
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Speaker 2: of Intelligence, and it's the first book the American government
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Speaker 2: ever went to court to try and get censored because
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Speaker 2: it was a former CIA agent who just fell out
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Speaker 2: and was like, I'm going to tell you everything the
10:20
Speaker 2: CIA does. And one of the things they talk about
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Speaker 2: in that book is at one point the CIA, and
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Speaker 2: they obviously still do this, but they were putting out
10:30
Speaker 2: press releases and news stories in other countries that they
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Speaker 2: knew were fake, but they were just doing it to
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Speaker 2: try and cause whatever reaction they wanted in that country.
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Speaker 2: And there were cases where US outlets would pick up
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Speaker 2: those stories and end up reporting them in the US,
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Speaker 2: and the CIA said nothing. At no point did they
10:51
Speaker 2: step in and go, oh, hey, that was just a
10:54
Speaker 2: fake story that we were spreading, because now the lie
10:57
Speaker 2: that they want spread in that country is getting picked
10:59
Speaker 2: up in the US too, and that just makes it
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Speaker 2: all the more effective.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a lazy way to do your job
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Speaker 2: if you're a reporter.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, just not questioning information you're given is like kind
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Speaker 4: of your one job is being that filter.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and at its heart, this documentary is about that,
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Speaker 2: like it's a whole. It's even worse than that, because
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Speaker 2: this isn't just a news organization being told a story
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Speaker 2: and then reporting it without checking it. They knew what
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Speaker 2: they were reporting was false.
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Speaker 4: Well, getting to the point and you know, they talk
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Speaker 4: about those where it just becomes so egregious that they're
11:37
Speaker 4: at his rallies, So it's it's not just objective reporting,
11:41
Speaker 4: it's like this team thing, like we're on this side.
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Speaker 2: They interview Gretchen Carlson in this, which is interesting because
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Speaker 2: she says a lot, but then they get to like
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Speaker 2: a couple questions and she's like, I have an nda.
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Speaker 2: I can't say anything.
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Speaker 4: I mean she even said she's like you know of
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Speaker 4: her and a few other women had actually approached fuck
12:01
Speaker 4: needs to be released from their NDAs because they signed
12:04
Speaker 4: them before me too, and all of that, and like,
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Speaker 4: I get it, you're a woman reporting like there's this conflict,
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Speaker 4: especially when there wasn't a movement or an outlet wanting
12:13
Speaker 4: that story to be the person to come out. You
12:15
Speaker 4: are seen as bitter, angry, looking for attention all of
12:19
Speaker 4: this stuff, where there's no reason for a women to
12:21
Speaker 4: come tell their story unless they really morally feel like
12:24
Speaker 4: it's going to make an impact and do something for
12:25
Speaker 4: someone else. Otherwise, people think you're looking for money, which
12:30
Speaker 4: you don't get from telling your story, because they probably
12:33
Speaker 4: took money and damages and as a result they had
12:37
Speaker 4: to say they wouldn't tell their story. But at the time,
12:39
Speaker 4: I don't think they felt like anyone would have listened
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Speaker 4: to their stories, so why wouldn't they take the money?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and her being in this actually lends a lot
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Speaker 2: of credibility to the story they're telling because despite her
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Speaker 2: history with Roger Ales, she's also like, if Roger Ales
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Speaker 2: stayed at Fox News, it wouldn't have turned into this.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, that was an interesting section because it was like,
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Speaker 4: on the one hand, they did you know definitely saying
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Speaker 4: you know Roger had this egregious personal life and no
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Speaker 4: one knew and whatever he took him help off.
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Speaker 3: But they're also like, but he was good at his job.
13:15
Speaker 1: You know.
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Speaker 4: It was like a little bit of a like you
13:17
Speaker 4: know me too, Like sometimes people are horrible personal people,
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Speaker 4: but they're good they're better at their jobs than other people,
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Speaker 4: And like.
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Speaker 3: Where do we find that line?
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Speaker 4: I guess, yeah, I think there could have been someone
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Speaker 4: better fine to replace him, but.
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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, And I mean that's her being what Fox
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Speaker 2: News isn't that's her being objective, Like, you know, it
13:36
Speaker 2: does happen.
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Speaker 4: Sometimes assholes are the horrible people are really good at
13:38
Speaker 4: their jobs.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it doesn't make them not horrible people, And
13:42
Speaker 2: it doesn't make you a horrible person for pointing that out.
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Speaker 2: It's just the fucking facts.
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Speaker 4: Because things are not good Team bad, Team Black and White,
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Speaker 4: which we love and which kind of you know, is
13:53
Speaker 4: a driver in this whole deviceive political climate, like people
13:56
Speaker 4: don't want to be.
13:57
Speaker 3: Like, wow, people are complicated and they're shades of.
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Speaker 4: Gray, and someone I hate can also have redeeming qualities.
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Speaker 3: Right now, it's just not as fun.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like even then, at the same time, fuck Roger Ales,
14:09
Speaker 2: like I'm glad he got fired. And they make a
14:13
Speaker 2: big point of Fox News like becoming way less objective
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Speaker 2: after Roger Ales. It's like, well, were they ever.
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Speaker 4: Part of the problem also was it doesn't seem like
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Speaker 4: they really replaced Roger Ales in any major way. It
14:28
Speaker 4: just became nepotistic and kind of bumped up to the
14:31
Speaker 4: Murdochs taking over an industry they don't really know how
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Speaker 4: to do or care about, and just using it as
14:38
Speaker 4: more of a mouthpiece for their own personal preference and
14:41
Speaker 4: thinking of it in a marketing way. They were like, oh,
14:42
Speaker 4: we're following our audience, and you know, which is not
14:45
Speaker 4: what news is not supposed to cater to the crowd
14:49
Speaker 4: like entertainment.
14:49
Speaker 3: You know.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I get the sense Roger Ales had a very
14:53
Speaker 2: dominating personality because one of the other things they talk
14:57
Speaker 2: about is he just kept Rupert Murdoch out of the
15:01
Speaker 2: news business, like Rupert Murdoch was the owner and just
15:05
Speaker 2: had no say over what was happening in terms of
15:08
Speaker 2: the news at Fox. And then once Roger Ayles left,
15:12
Speaker 2: that's when Rupert Murdoch moved in. And I still don't
15:16
Speaker 2: completely buy the idea that Fox News was in any
15:19
Speaker 2: way objective before that.
15:20
Speaker 4: I don't think they're saying it was completely objective, but
15:23
Speaker 4: they're like it was better.
15:25
Speaker 3: It was never great.
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Speaker 4: It always leaned one way, you know, but it wasn't
15:29
Speaker 4: blatantly a mouthpiece.
15:31
Speaker 2: Rank, which is what it definitely becomes.
15:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, they would try and have like debates and have
15:37
Speaker 4: you know, Democrats even like they're even if just for show.
15:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hannity and Combs. Combs was the Democrat on that
15:45
Speaker 2: debate show, Sean puff Daddy. Combs realized that I was like.
15:50
Speaker 4: Wow, what a drier, shittier version of Honeycomb's.
15:56
Speaker 2: And so yeah, they talked to Gretchen Carlson. Another guy
15:59
Speaker 2: they I found really interesting was Chris Steierwaldt, who was
16:04
Speaker 2: a Fox News political editor for ten years, who becomes
16:08
Speaker 2: really integral to this story.
16:10
Speaker 3: But I don't know if I remember which one he is.
16:13
Speaker 2: He's the guy because a lot of the centers around
16:17
Speaker 2: the idea that the twenty twenty election was stolen a
16:20
Speaker 2: big lie. Chris Steierwalt was the guy working the Fox
16:26
Speaker 2: News decision desk, like the head of the decision desk
16:30
Speaker 2: who on election night called Arizona for Joe Biden. Yes,
16:36
Speaker 2: and almost everyone else at Fox News was irate that
16:41
Speaker 2: they called Arizona for Joe Biden before anyone else.
16:45
Speaker 3: WELLO, is that like Trump took that as a personal event.
16:49
Speaker 2: Right, he took it as the Murdocks not having his back,
16:52
Speaker 2: not being loyal. And meanwhile, this Stywalt guy's like, we
16:57
Speaker 2: should have been celebrating the fact that we were first
17:01
Speaker 2: and that we were right. Like that's what you're supposed
17:04
Speaker 2: to do during an election, is you not only want
17:07
Speaker 2: to be right, but you want to be first. It
17:10
Speaker 2: was for a particular candidate, like.
17:12
Speaker 4: A blatant thing of like everything, journalism should be celebrated
17:17
Speaker 4: for getting the story correct and the fastest was you know,
17:22
Speaker 4: they didn't like it in a piece of like you
17:23
Speaker 4: didn't serve the messaging correctly.
17:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, what did you think of Susan Estrich? Which one
17:30
Speaker 2: Estrich was the Democrat who helped Roger Ales kind of
17:35
Speaker 2: form his defense around those blond lap voice.
17:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, yeah, she reminded me of one of the
17:44
Speaker 4: characters in Succession.
17:45
Speaker 2: Too, Yeah she did. Yeah, she's she's got those like
17:49
Speaker 2: what do you do for a living kind of vibes
17:51
Speaker 2: where it's like you just you aren't really sure what
17:54
Speaker 2: she does. But she clearly does something and she's very
17:57
Speaker 2: good at it. That goes just being like a lawyer,
18:01
Speaker 2: Like she seems like a problem solver.
18:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm saying, like a political cleaner or something.
18:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's probably had people murdered, Like that's what I'm getting.
18:10
Speaker 4: At, or helped write the story about it, right exactly.
18:14
Speaker 3: They call her, they're like, what do we do about this?
18:17
Speaker 2: Yeah? To her credit, she steers Roger Ales away from
18:21
Speaker 2: what she calls the nuts and sluts defense, which is
18:25
Speaker 2: a phrase she coined herself. And I hope it's not
18:29
Speaker 2: because she employed that strategy in the past, but I feel.
18:33
Speaker 4: No, she called it though she's not wrong, like, oh
18:36
Speaker 4: something happened. She's either crazy or she's a slutch nuts
18:40
Speaker 4: of sluts.
18:41
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, yeah.
18:42
Speaker 2: And yeah. To her credit, she steers Roger Ales away
18:45
Speaker 2: from that, and she's like, I'm not going to help
18:48
Speaker 2: you defend yourself. I'll just help you settle. And he
18:52
Speaker 2: leaves with a shit ton of money.
18:53
Speaker 1: Uh.
18:54
Speaker 2: Gretchen Carlson got a lot of money, and now she
18:57
Speaker 2: can't talk about it anymore, which that's fair, Like I
19:01
Speaker 2: feel like I would take I think she got twenty
19:03
Speaker 2: million dollars.
19:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, good chunk.
19:05
Speaker 4: There's not much benefit to telling a story, like you know,
19:09
Speaker 4: you really just get more criticism and harassment. So it's
19:14
Speaker 4: like not fun for women to come out and talk
19:16
Speaker 4: about what's happening to them.
19:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you remember the Triumph the insult comic dog
19:23
Speaker 2: election special that was on Hulu leading up to the
19:26
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen election. Vaguely there is a crazy scene in
19:31
Speaker 2: that where Roger Ales is in it for like not
19:35
Speaker 2: a while, like a while. He doesn't just like make
19:37
Speaker 2: a cameo. And there's one scene and this is after
19:40
Speaker 2: all of the allegations have come out, but before he
19:43
Speaker 2: was fired, and there's a scene where they're doing it jokingly,
19:47
Speaker 2: but Roger Ales is being interviewed by a female reporter
19:52
Speaker 2: and he's just staring at her chest the entire time
19:56
Speaker 2: she talks. And I always felt like that speaks to
20:01
Speaker 2: what kind of person Roger Ales must be to like
20:05
Speaker 2: be in that kind of shit storm of a news
20:09
Speaker 2: story about you being a sex creep and then going
20:12
Speaker 2: on a TV show that is clearly being filmed after
20:15
Speaker 2: that has all come out and being like, yeah, I'm
20:18
Speaker 2: brace being a fucking sex creep on camera, what's going
20:21
Speaker 2: to happen to me?
20:22
Speaker 4: It's like it's it's like when you start to question,
20:25
Speaker 4: like are you oblivious or do you just really think
20:30
Speaker 4: you're that untouchable? Yeah, like which you want to think
20:34
Speaker 4: that you're just an idiot who's like that's habit and
20:37
Speaker 4: you don't realize you're being filmed and later will be
20:39
Speaker 4: like whoo whoops. But if you really just are like
20:42
Speaker 4: nobody can touch me.
20:44
Speaker 2: There really is a point in history where Fox News
20:48
Speaker 2: does go from kind of being just a news outlet
20:51
Speaker 2: to being the mouthpiece of the Trump administration. And it
20:55
Speaker 2: is after Roger Ales leaves and Rupert Murdoch comes in
20:59
Speaker 2: and at first you think he's gonna seed control to
21:02
Speaker 2: his sons, and he doesn't at first, and one of
21:05
Speaker 2: them ends up just leaving. That's James, the one.
21:09
Speaker 3: Who Kendall Rood.
21:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, James and Lachlan's credit both at least in terms
21:16
Speaker 2: of the me too stuff after Gretchen Carlson went public.
21:21
Speaker 2: At least in their public words, they sound like they're
21:25
Speaker 2: on the right side of history. Whereas they ask Rupert
21:29
Speaker 2: Murdoch about it and he's like, ugh, it's a bunch
21:32
Speaker 2: of nothing like so to bother.
21:35
Speaker 4: This is beneficial for the sons because there's a big
21:39
Speaker 4: power vacuum for one of them to step into for
21:42
Speaker 4: their father, his buddies getting sent up the river for
21:45
Speaker 4: shit he probably did with him, you know. So they're
21:48
Speaker 4: going to have very different views on it, even just
21:50
Speaker 4: from their own personal how's it going to benefit me?
21:52
Speaker 3: You know? Yeah, subjectivity?
21:55
Speaker 2: And so the rift between those three becomes enough that,
21:59
Speaker 2: like we said, James just leaves and goes to what the.
22:01
Speaker 4: Question is James is saying here, does agree with what's
22:04
Speaker 4: happening at Fox News? I think he goes to do
22:05
Speaker 4: his own news right, like a different and he's even
22:08
Speaker 4: like Fox they're doing their thing over there. But I'm like, okay,
22:11
Speaker 4: or was there a battle for who was going to
22:12
Speaker 4: lead Fox News and you.
22:14
Speaker 3: Didn't get it? Yeah, you know what your brother well
22:17
Speaker 3: never really know.
22:18
Speaker 2: But it's like, yeah, which that if that was the case,
22:23
Speaker 2: it would be smart of him to come out the
22:24
Speaker 2: other end and be like, hey, they're just too conservative
22:27
Speaker 2: for me.
22:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh you don't want me while I'm defecting one
22:29
Speaker 4: on the other side, I'm going your competition now.
22:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the fact that I don't know
22:34
Speaker 2: where he went or what he's doing. Speaks to how
22:37
Speaker 2: well that if.
22:38
Speaker 4: He had become a large because I, yeah, I never
22:41
Speaker 4: knew this as part of you know, consuming American media,
22:45
Speaker 4: I didn't know that one of the Ruper brothers had
22:47
Speaker 4: defected him and gone liberal. If he had done that
22:50
Speaker 4: in a big way where people in America knew about it,
22:53
Speaker 4: it might have meant something. People in Fox watchers are like, well,
22:56
Speaker 4: why did his own son abandon him? Because they love
22:58
Speaker 4: a family narrative. But he didn't make a big stink
23:01
Speaker 4: about it until like after shit went down. He kind
23:03
Speaker 4: of had a like I told you so moment, which
23:05
Speaker 4: just feels petty and not like.
23:07
Speaker 3: A little anyway.
23:09
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, they talk about Election Night and Fox
23:12
Speaker 2: News calling Arizona for Joe Biden, which if you've looked
23:17
Speaker 2: into the twenty twenty election theories, the conspiracy theories around it,
23:23
Speaker 2: that's huge because Arizona is the state where that carried
23:27
Speaker 2: on the longest. They had Carrie Lake who was was
23:32
Speaker 2: she governor at the time.
23:35
Speaker 3: It had a very Florida of the West vibe.
23:37
Speaker 2: Yes, and oh she was a candidate for governor and
23:43
Speaker 2: she was so outspoken about the twenty twenty election being stolen,
23:48
Speaker 2: especially in Maricopa County in Arizona, and that carried on
23:54
Speaker 2: for such a long time, so that Fox News is
23:58
Speaker 2: kind of the outlet that kicked off that conspiracy theory.
24:01
Speaker 2: I find that really interesting because I.
24:04
Speaker 4: Got like, just major flashback because the first election I
24:07
Speaker 4: ever voted in in Florida was the hanging Chads. I'm
24:10
Speaker 4: from West pom Beach, that was Pombach County. It was
24:12
Speaker 4: the fucking hanging chads for months. Yeah, and I'm just like, oh,
24:16
Speaker 4: we're going back to the playbook. It just feels very
24:19
Speaker 4: similar because they called it for a Zona, but then
24:21
Speaker 4: they immediately backpedaled like the day in the days after
24:24
Speaker 4: when it was clear that Trump was mad at them.
24:26
Speaker 2: Right, and they ulind of like the official decision desk
24:30
Speaker 2: never backpedaled. But their anchors are the ones who start
24:34
Speaker 2: pushing the idea that maybe not only did Trump actually
24:37
Speaker 2: win Arizona, he won the entire election.
24:40
Speaker 4: Well, then they get into the crazy when they start
24:44
Speaker 4: going after the voting machines.
24:46
Speaker 3: Yes, which is unhinged.
24:49
Speaker 2: It is nuts.
24:51
Speaker 3: When she gets like.
24:52
Speaker 4: That's when that woman just implodes. When the reporter's like
24:56
Speaker 4: but this is a basic fact you could google.
24:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, his spons is to get angry. I mean, I
25:01
Speaker 3: can't talk about this because.
25:05
Speaker 2: That was lawyer Sidney Powell, who is a crazy person
25:11
Speaker 2: and used to be like a federal official of course. Yeah,
25:15
Speaker 2: one of.
25:16
Speaker 3: The laws like sociopath vibes she does.
25:19
Speaker 2: If you look into her background, this is what she does.
25:23
Speaker 2: She's a salesperson.
25:25
Speaker 3: She's an attack dog. Yeas this been clean to be fair.
25:29
Speaker 2: She's not a reporter, right, so she doesn't have to
25:32
Speaker 2: tell the truth. One of the things that comes up
25:35
Speaker 2: in this documentary, or one of the focuses of it,
25:37
Speaker 2: is the various lawsuits that were filed against all of
25:42
Speaker 2: the people responsible for spreading the stolen election lies. And
25:47
Speaker 2: one of those companies is smart Matic. There is this
25:50
Speaker 2: conspiracy out there that Smartmatic was like the leader of
25:54
Speaker 2: this nationwide effort to steal votes and to alter votes.
25:59
Speaker 2: And meanwhile, smart Magic was used in one state, California,
26:04
Speaker 2: and only in La County.
26:06
Speaker 4: Which you know, real big doubt always which way La
26:09
Speaker 4: County was go exactly and not like that also felt
26:13
Speaker 4: personal because you know, Trump is a showman and he
26:17
Speaker 4: wants to be popular, and he considers himself part of
26:19
Speaker 4: Hollywood because he had a TV show, So I feel
26:22
Speaker 4: like he probably took it personally like fuck.
26:24
Speaker 2: La Yeah, it had to be something like that. Like
26:27
Speaker 2: I feel like the people who put this theory together
26:30
Speaker 2: knew it was obviously a lie, and I don't know,
26:34
Speaker 2: maybe they fed this to Sydney Powell.
26:36
Speaker 4: Just I wonder if there's also like that, you know,
26:38
Speaker 4: fuck the Hollywood elite.
26:39
Speaker 3: It's kind of like blaming Hollywood, blaming the.
26:41
Speaker 4: Jews, right, the elites fucked the lizard people who run Hollywood.
26:46
Speaker 4: They stole the election somehow, Like blame it on Hollywood.
26:50
Speaker 4: Not the worst play for conservatives trying to sell the
26:53
Speaker 4: rest of the country on this idea. Who don't know
26:56
Speaker 4: La County and think we're.
26:58
Speaker 3: All paused as a shit.
26:59
Speaker 2: But then if that's the case, you damn sure better
27:03
Speaker 2: be ready to answer the question of how many places
27:07
Speaker 2: were Smartmatic voting machines?
27:08
Speaker 4: A yeah, when they just like show all the clips
27:10
Speaker 4: where they are blatantly lying, saying like Smartmatic owned to
27:14
Speaker 4: the other company, which is not true, saying just like
27:18
Speaker 4: things factually that aren't true.
27:21
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sarah Ferguson asks her how many places, and she
27:24
Speaker 2: was like I don't know, probably too many to count,
27:27
Speaker 2: if I'm being honest. And Sarah Ferguson's like one's used
27:30
Speaker 2: in one place and you could have just googled that
27:33
Speaker 2: she does.
27:34
Speaker 3: She's a deflection.
27:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, She's like, well, there's information you don't know, and
27:38
Speaker 4: I can't speak about this because it's under litigation, and
27:40
Speaker 4: there's things I cannot talk about, Like it just becomes
27:43
Speaker 4: a whole like you just don't know, but I also
27:45
Speaker 4: can't tell you.
27:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, very convenient defense.
27:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then she has and she defended.
27:51
Speaker 3: She walks out, Yeah.
27:52
Speaker 2: That r Kelly on twenty twenty moment where she just
27:55
Speaker 2: stands up and acts like she's been so aggrieved.
27:58
Speaker 4: Well, she says the report. I'm starting to question why
28:01
Speaker 4: you're even here because if she's the conspiracy Yeah, it's
28:04
Speaker 4: like it's a masterclass in sociopathic deflection. Like instead of
28:08
Speaker 4: you answered your question, I get offended that you would
28:10
Speaker 4: even ask this.
28:12
Speaker 2: And it's really typical of pretty much all of the
28:15
Speaker 2: conspiracy theories that this group, in particular, like Sidney Powerll,
28:19
Speaker 2: Rudy Juliani, all the stuff they push. You eventually hit
28:23
Speaker 2: that wall where it's like, all right, show me the
28:26
Speaker 2: evidence and they're like no. And one of the best
28:30
Speaker 2: examples of that is the Hunter Biden's laptop story. There
28:35
Speaker 2: is actually a quote from Rudy Giuliani where someone asked
28:40
Speaker 2: him why he doesn't just make this evidence public and
28:45
Speaker 2: just show people if you're so convinced Hunter Biden has
28:48
Speaker 2: been involved in all this, and his actual response was,
28:52
Speaker 2: because you'll just spend time trying to discredit it. And
28:56
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, man, that's what the news outlets are
29:00
Speaker 2: supposed to do with a story like this, and just
29:04
Speaker 2: saying that implies that you feel like they will be
29:07
Speaker 2: able to discredit it because you're lying. And it's like,
29:10
Speaker 2: that's why fucking Trump supporters, that's why no one believes
29:15
Speaker 2: this shit. I feel like it comes time to show
29:17
Speaker 2: people you can't.
29:19
Speaker 3: You know.
29:19
Speaker 4: I started thinking about this an interesting way when it
29:21
Speaker 4: was who was the weird kind of conservative lady who
29:24
Speaker 4: also was like power of positive thinking. I'm not thinking
29:27
Speaker 4: Marjorie Taylor Green was before that she was running in
29:29
Speaker 4: twenty sixteen ors something. I'm so bad with names. This
29:33
Speaker 4: is hard.
29:34
Speaker 2: I don't remember.
29:35
Speaker 4: There was one who was like very I've started to
29:38
Speaker 4: realize this too. This is guy doctor dispensa. There's some
29:40
Speaker 4: people on the fringes of conservative conspiracy theory that almost
29:45
Speaker 4: touch on New age stuff, lots of the secret manifesting,
29:50
Speaker 4: you know, power of positive thinking, create your own reality.
29:53
Speaker 2: And servers love that shit.
29:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that that's part of the like
29:58
Speaker 4: holding to the lie with like I think some part
30:02
Speaker 4: of them is like if I believe this lie with
30:05
Speaker 4: my whole heart and the full power of my mind,
30:09
Speaker 4: I can manifest it and make it real. This is
30:11
Speaker 4: like the power of my mind over the power of
30:15
Speaker 4: your reality.
30:16
Speaker 2: Like that's one of the scary things about how Trump
30:21
Speaker 2: got elected. There's a mind a power.
30:24
Speaker 3: Positive think that. I mean, he kind of did he.
30:27
Speaker 2: Well, not just that, but there was this guy who
30:30
Speaker 2: at one point had a vision that Trump was ordained
30:35
Speaker 2: by God to be the next president. And he had
30:38
Speaker 2: this vision while watching Trump speak, and he goes to
30:42
Speaker 2: his therapist and tells them this, and his therapist does
30:47
Speaker 2: not do what a therapist is supposed to do and
30:50
Speaker 2: you know, just talk him through these weird feelings. Instead,
30:53
Speaker 2: his therapist goes, hey, can I put you in touch
30:56
Speaker 2: with a woman who organizes evangelicals, And the guys like, okay, sure,
31:02
Speaker 2: and she does that, and this guy ends up being
31:05
Speaker 2: put in touch with this woman. I don't remember her name,
31:08
Speaker 2: but for the next few months, this woman starts organizing
31:13
Speaker 2: daily phone calls where people just get on the phone
31:17
Speaker 2: and pray for Donald Trump to become president. And by
31:21
Speaker 2: the end these calls are like two hundred and fifty
31:25
Speaker 2: thousand people strong. And this is all evangelicals who already think, well,
31:30
Speaker 2: if you think hard enough and pray hard enough, it'll happen.
31:33
Speaker 2: And then they do this and fucking Trump wins. So
31:37
Speaker 2: now they're like, see, it is God's plan that Trump
31:41
Speaker 2: become president. And I think that has a lot to
31:44
Speaker 2: do with I think you're right. I think that is
31:46
Speaker 2: why people are holding on to this as hard as so.
31:49
Speaker 4: They get people who like my mom is Jewish from
31:53
Speaker 4: New York Rowy's liberal artists, and she was getting into
31:56
Speaker 4: at the end of her life. This guy talked her
31:58
Speaker 4: dispensa who was part of the reason why she didn't
32:00
Speaker 4: she needed cancer treatment. She was gonna heal herself with
32:02
Speaker 4: a fucking mind. And they're getting like just kind of
32:05
Speaker 4: new age people who are never conservative in this backdoor
32:08
Speaker 4: channel of like the QAnon going to the power positive
32:12
Speaker 4: Thinking NLP sort of thing, which was kind of wild
32:15
Speaker 4: to me. That's why there's like a weird, you know,
32:17
Speaker 4: very very conservative Trump leaning faction in it in Los Angeles.
32:22
Speaker 4: If you get into the like yoga Healer, all natural
32:26
Speaker 4: movement of the not they became non voxers, they became
32:30
Speaker 4: they get sucked into conspiracy that way, there's like an overlap,
32:34
Speaker 4: which I found fascinating because I'm like, oh, it's not
32:37
Speaker 4: even a They're not even getting them through the politics.
32:39
Speaker 3: They're getting them. It's like a cull. They get you.
32:41
Speaker 4: Through the emotional pitch first, which is like that's how
32:46
Speaker 4: you get into most cults. Your mind is so powerful,
32:48
Speaker 4: we understand you the rest of us, and we're going
32:50
Speaker 4: to change your life. We're going to make everything better.
32:53
Speaker 4: And then once you're in and you feel that familiar
32:55
Speaker 4: like these people are my friends and we're all in
32:58
Speaker 4: this team together, and then they start doing the crazy
33:01
Speaker 4: shit like slowly, like bit by bit, and before you know.
33:04
Speaker 3: It, you're at a rally champion. Shit.
33:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, you never saw the guy that broke into Paul
33:10
Speaker 2: Pelosi's house and beat him with a hammer, Like you
33:13
Speaker 2: can just look at that dude until he's done a
33:15
Speaker 2: lot of surfing. He probably reeks a pachuli. They were like,
33:19
Speaker 2: he had a rainbow flag outside his house, in a
33:22
Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter flag, so he had to be a leftist.
33:25
Speaker 2: It's like, no, he doesn't have to be.
33:27
Speaker 4: I mean also the extremists in the Liberal Party. It's
33:31
Speaker 4: once you're an extremist, you're more like other extremists than
33:34
Speaker 4: you are anyone in the middle. And the extremists in
33:36
Speaker 4: the Liberal Party that are like fuck those assholes. I'm like,
33:38
Speaker 4: you sound exactly like the conservatives being.
33:40
Speaker 3: Like fuck those assholes.
33:41
Speaker 4: Like you're both just villainizing people and not working on
33:45
Speaker 4: any sort of area for a compromise or unity. So
33:49
Speaker 4: you're just the same part of the problem, Like you
33:51
Speaker 4: are both assholes. You're all assholes. Stop yelling.
33:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the main point of this episode. You are
33:57
Speaker 2: all asked.
33:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, I shut up.
34:01
Speaker 2: The fuck up. God, I never really I guess I
34:06
Speaker 2: had probably heard at the time, and I don't know
34:08
Speaker 2: if he ever switched his position, but I was surprised
34:11
Speaker 2: that Tucker Carlson was like the only person on Fox
34:15
Speaker 2: News who was like Sydney Powell's fucking crazy.
34:17
Speaker 3: He came out looking good.
34:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is a thing. I don't think it
34:22
Speaker 2: came out by the time this documentary was first aired,
34:26
Speaker 2: but we know now that people within Fox, like even
34:30
Speaker 2: lou Dobbs and the people they highlight in this documentary,
34:34
Speaker 2: behind the scenes, they were all texting each other like man,
34:37
Speaker 2: Trump's crazy, like he obviously lost the election. But then
34:41
Speaker 2: they were going on the air and still spreading well.
34:44
Speaker 4: I mean also like we want to we want to
34:47
Speaker 4: blame anchors, we want to hold them responsible because they're
34:49
Speaker 4: the face we see. But yes, any actor, any performer,
34:53
Speaker 4: all the faces you see on camera.
34:54
Speaker 3: Are the lowest people on the totem pole.
34:57
Speaker 4: People who put the script in front of him and
34:59
Speaker 4: say say that we're all watching.
35:01
Speaker 3: They're not writing the scripts.
35:02
Speaker 4: Like none of them are in charge of what they're saying,
35:05
Speaker 4: Like none of them are in charge of what's on
35:06
Speaker 4: that teleprompter. They're just there to be a puppet and
35:09
Speaker 4: smile and look nice and say it.
35:11
Speaker 2: And Lachlan Murdoch even kind of says that in the
35:14
Speaker 2: documentary performers. Yeah, they're showing a clip of him speaking
35:18
Speaker 2: at like some Ted Talk kind of thing, except he's
35:22
Speaker 2: being interviewed and the person's like, do you write the
35:26
Speaker 2: stories that Fox News puts out, which is a dumb
35:29
Speaker 2: way to ask the question for one thing, and he's like, no,
35:33
Speaker 2: I don't write them. I just work very closely with
35:37
Speaker 2: the managers of the various departments where people write and
35:41
Speaker 2: guide the stories that they write. It's like, okay, that's
35:44
Speaker 2: the same thing. That is essentially the same thing.
35:47
Speaker 3: It's like, hey, secretary, take this down. And then you're like,
35:51
Speaker 3: she wrote it.
35:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it speaks to why this lawsuit happened. But
35:57
Speaker 2: also there's a part in this where Chris what the
36:02
Speaker 2: fuck is his name? Style Wart he's also a right winger.
36:05
Speaker 4: At the end of the day, I all have names
36:07
Speaker 4: that sound like evil characters in Harry Potter.
36:10
Speaker 2: You really do, yes, But Chris Chris steyerwallt yeah, the
36:15
Speaker 2: guy from the decision desk. He brings up that given
36:21
Speaker 2: Trump's involvement in this, because they do talk about how
36:25
Speaker 2: Rupert Murdoch eventually becomes like a pipeline for Trump.
36:29
Speaker 4: Well, they literally show him getting on the back of
36:32
Speaker 4: Trump's little golf cart, which also feels like very beta
36:35
Speaker 4: like it's so because you're sitting on the back facing
36:38
Speaker 4: away looking like a coy little girl, like on the
36:40
Speaker 4: back of a Harley, Like you didn't even get the
36:42
Speaker 4: front seat he brought Rupert.
36:44
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, that was almost certainly Trump.
36:47
Speaker 4: Just the visual just showed you a status wise where
36:50
Speaker 4: it's like you're getting on the back of his golf
36:51
Speaker 4: cart and he's just gonna take you on all ride.
36:53
Speaker 2: But also, in Rupert Murdoch's defense, the president of the
36:56
Speaker 2: United States just flew out of the country to come
37:00
Speaker 2: visit you.
37:01
Speaker 3: Personally, and they said to kiss the ring.
37:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, so now Rupert Murdoch has all this access to
37:08
Speaker 2: the White House and it's like this direct pipeline for
37:10
Speaker 2: Trump and they engage in this conspiracy to spread a
37:15
Speaker 2: false narrative about the election in hopes of overturning the
37:19
Speaker 2: US election. What that Chris guy brings up is that's
37:23
Speaker 2: a way bigger scandal than like Watergate. This is a
37:26
Speaker 2: president taking control of a fucking US media outlet to
37:31
Speaker 2: try and launch a coup. Basically, like this is so
37:35
Speaker 2: much bigger.
37:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty wild.
37:38
Speaker 2: But Watergate, I think in general, we need to stop
37:40
Speaker 2: acting like that is the pinnacle of American misdeeds. Like
37:45
Speaker 2: that's reel like on the list.
37:48
Speaker 4: The reason that we can do that is that by
37:51
Speaker 4: the time that happened, everyone kind of hated Nixon. Like
37:55
Speaker 4: even conservatives they love Reagan, but they don't love Nixon
38:01
Speaker 4: as much because he was just so It was right
38:03
Speaker 4: at the beginning of media too, like presidents weren't as
38:06
Speaker 4: media savvy and was his media presence was not curated enough.
38:11
Speaker 4: He was unlikable. He kind of burned both sides. It
38:14
Speaker 4: was interesting to see about how access changed things. I
38:17
Speaker 4: got really into laughing at one point over Quarantine, which
38:20
Speaker 4: was famous for having the like sock it to me.
38:23
Speaker 4: That kind of made Nixon. So then when Nixon became president,
38:26
Speaker 4: they had access. The guys who run the show were
38:29
Speaker 4: showing how they went to the inauguration, and they started
38:31
Speaker 4: as this like hippie very left, very funny, Emmy winning show.
38:35
Speaker 4: It very quickly became a piece where I had to
38:38
Speaker 4: google stuff because it was just a lot of sketches
38:39
Speaker 4: about how spiru Agnew was a dummy, which is like,
38:44
Speaker 4: that's like what Nixon wanted people to know because he
38:45
Speaker 4: didn't like his vice president. It was I was literally,
38:49
Speaker 4: what is the deal? And it's like, oh, Nixon hated
38:51
Speaker 4: his vice president's fair Agnuin's like, that's all laughing. Does
38:53
Speaker 4: sketches on now, which was not funny, did not didn't
38:57
Speaker 4: land That's why nobody knows the show now. They didn't
38:59
Speaker 4: conservative comedy, not really that funny. But it was like
39:02
Speaker 4: you could tell they were just so over the moon
39:04
Speaker 4: at their access to the president that it completely blindsided
39:07
Speaker 4: anything else that they were doing with the show that
39:09
Speaker 4: was good. And it's like, yeah, just getting blinded by
39:12
Speaker 4: like your access and your power to where nothing else
39:16
Speaker 4: matters but your personal experience getting to go to the
39:20
Speaker 4: White House or whatever, and now you're selling out this
39:22
Speaker 4: entire mouthpiece.
39:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you saw it or you see it in
39:26
Speaker 2: this documentary with the anchors too, not just with Rupert Murdoch.
39:30
Speaker 2: You mentioned there's the scene from the Trump rally where
39:34
Speaker 2: Sean Hannity gets to go up on stage and speak
39:37
Speaker 2: and he points to the rest of the media in
39:38
Speaker 2: the back and goes, they're fake news.
39:40
Speaker 3: Oh my god, yeah, knowing.
39:42
Speaker 2: He's spreading fake news at the time himself. Janine Piro
39:47
Speaker 2: gets to go up on stage. She makes for a
39:50
Speaker 2: really interesting moment in this too, where Sarah Ferguson is
39:54
Speaker 2: outside the Fox News headquarters in New York and Jeanine
39:57
Speaker 2: Pierro comes out and people are like posing for pictures
40:01
Speaker 2: and asking for autographs, and then Sarah Ferguson just pops
40:04
Speaker 2: in and goes, hey, do you still think dominion voting
40:07
Speaker 2: machines were rigged to steal the twenty twenty election? And
40:11
Speaker 2: Janine Piro just like smiles and walks away and doesn't
40:15
Speaker 2: answer it.
40:15
Speaker 4: And they try and kick her off the property for
40:18
Speaker 4: asking questions when it's in front of a news building.
40:21
Speaker 3: Right, She's literally doing news.
40:23
Speaker 4: Reporting as she can on public property, asking people questions,
40:27
Speaker 4: and they're like, what are you doing here?
40:29
Speaker 3: Why are you being cooperative?
40:30
Speaker 4: It's like, it shows to me how much news is entertainment. Now,
40:34
Speaker 4: you know, we've said that about Fox, and that's part
40:36
Speaker 4: of the like going for the ratings and following the audience.
40:38
Speaker 3: That's not what news does, That's what entertainment does.
40:41
Speaker 4: And these reporters like they care more about being celebrities
40:44
Speaker 4: than being reporters.
40:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't address this in the documentary, obviously because
40:50
Speaker 2: it hadn't happened by then. But the way I ended
40:54
Speaker 2: up even knowing about this documentary is I read an
40:56
Speaker 2: article about how the Australian Communication and Media Authority ruled
41:02
Speaker 2: that this documentary breached the accuracy and fair dealing requirements
41:08
Speaker 2: of ABC's editorial code and that sounds really damning and
41:15
Speaker 2: that's kind of the problem, Like, well.
41:17
Speaker 4: Well, because then it came down to three very minor
41:21
Speaker 4: things that would have been easily like when you do
41:24
Speaker 4: a like retraction and corrections the next day, like okay,
41:27
Speaker 4: we said this, instead of that, it was very very
41:29
Speaker 4: minor things.
41:30
Speaker 2: Yeah. The three things they took issue with one using
41:34
Speaker 2: the word mob to describe the January sixth rioters. They
41:38
Speaker 2: said that was emotive and strident language. Hey fuck you.
41:42
Speaker 4: That was like, that's the thing that feels subjective and
41:45
Speaker 4: not objective in all of the things that we're discussing.
41:49
Speaker 2: They also said ABC should have used a Fox News
41:52
Speaker 2: press release in the documentary, but that press release was
41:55
Speaker 2: like three years old at the time.
41:58
Speaker 3: And again, as I said, press releases, not news.
42:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And then the third thing is they said
42:03
Speaker 2: it was wrong to have stopped Jeanine Piro on the
42:06
Speaker 2: street and question her, And it's like, how is that wrong?
42:10
Speaker 2: What is that supposed to mean?
42:12
Speaker 4: It's also literally what reporters do ask people questions. She
42:14
Speaker 4: was on public line. You know, she was on the sidewalk.
42:17
Speaker 4: It's public. She didn't like invade the building and you know,
42:20
Speaker 4: come into her office or anything. Yeah, there were other
42:23
Speaker 4: people trying to get pit photos with her.
42:25
Speaker 3: It's not like the.
42:28
Speaker 2: Like baseball rules kind of like baseball has all these
42:31
Speaker 2: unwritten rules, like well, if it's a three to zero
42:34
Speaker 2: count and the bases are loaded, you don't swing because
42:37
Speaker 2: you know what kind of pitch has come and it's
42:39
Speaker 2: going to be a fastball, and you just don't swing
42:41
Speaker 2: in that situation. And then there are players who will
42:44
Speaker 2: swing in that situation and they'll get a hit and
42:47
Speaker 2: people will be mad at them and they're like, it's
42:49
Speaker 2: not my job to uphold your unwritten rules. It is
42:53
Speaker 2: my job to do my job, and my job is
42:55
Speaker 2: to win baseball games. And this feels like some unwritten
42:58
Speaker 2: rules shit where they're like, hey, your media, you know,
43:01
Speaker 2: you don't stop other media and question them like that.
43:04
Speaker 3: It's just like I think you were rude, you know, yeah.
43:08
Speaker 2: Like otherwise, I don't know what the complaint can be.
43:10
Speaker 2: It's just her doing what she's supposed to do.
43:12
Speaker 4: It feels like somebody of power was like you got
43:16
Speaker 4: to make a statement that this isn't good. Somebody doesn't
43:18
Speaker 4: like it. Yeah, and you have to make some kind
43:22
Speaker 4: of you know, some writer someone lower on the totem
43:26
Speaker 4: post told you have to find a reason that we can.
43:30
Speaker 3: Flag this as not being good reporting.
43:32
Speaker 4: And they went there and like, oh, this wasn't nice.
43:37
Speaker 2: Well, it's a lot like what happened with Gary Webb,
43:41
Speaker 2: who is the guy who broke the story about the
43:44
Speaker 2: CIA selling crack in Los Angeles. If you look into
43:48
Speaker 2: it now, history will tell you that the New York
43:51
Speaker 2: Times and the LA Times discredited his reporting. But what
43:55
Speaker 2: they actually did was at the behest of the American government,
44:00
Speaker 2: spent like three months just kind of nitpicking the details
44:05
Speaker 2: of his story to the point that like one of
44:08
Speaker 2: their big complaints was, well, he said Rick Ross was
44:13
Speaker 2: one of the biggest cocaine suppliers in LA but there
44:17
Speaker 2: were actually bigger cocaine suppliers, And it's like, motherfucker, that
44:22
Speaker 2: does not make what he's saying not true.
44:24
Speaker 4: And also it's like there's we also know that there
44:27
Speaker 4: were other cocaine suppliers he doesn't even know about.
44:30
Speaker 3: We know about the bigger ones.
44:32
Speaker 4: He didn't even know it's like, Okay, well, you're telling
44:34
Speaker 4: your hand that you have inside information to the people
44:37
Speaker 4: that know the even bigger deals.
44:38
Speaker 2: But at no point did they ever like follow up
44:42
Speaker 2: on the general claim, which was that the CIA knew
44:45
Speaker 2: people were selling crack in the United States. They were
44:48
Speaker 2: just like, uh uh, it wasn't as big as he
44:50
Speaker 2: said it was. But because it's the New York Times
44:53
Speaker 2: and because it's the LA Times, people took that and
44:56
Speaker 2: just like read the headline and were like, oh, okay,
44:58
Speaker 2: so I guess that story was bullshit and.
45:01
Speaker 4: Verd because that was the emotional message that they were
45:05
Speaker 4: trying to sell. That's when you get into the marketing
45:07
Speaker 4: of it, and it's not about the details. It's not
45:10
Speaker 4: about the fact. It's about the emotional messaging that people
45:13
Speaker 4: will get when they loss it, when they consume it
45:15
Speaker 4: without thinking about it farther, you know, and being critical.
45:20
Speaker 2: And that was part of Sarah Ferguson's response. She ended
45:24
Speaker 2: up writing a twelve hundred word response to this report,
45:27
Speaker 2: and here's a quote from that. In its report responding
45:32
Speaker 2: to extensive complaints by Fox, ACMA says nineteen times that
45:37
Speaker 2: ABC did not breach impartiality or mislead the audience. It
45:42
Speaker 2: identified three minor subjective breaches within our coverage. Yet the
45:48
Speaker 2: press release issued by ACMA chairperson Narita O'Laughlin and the
45:53
Speaker 2: language of the report create an overall impression that our
45:57
Speaker 2: programs were misleading and not on And she's right, and
46:02
Speaker 2: I think that was the point. They just wanted to
46:06
Speaker 2: put something out there to put doubt in people's minds.
46:09
Speaker 4: They know the message, they know the feeling that they
46:12
Speaker 4: want to put out there, and then you craft the
46:15
Speaker 4: story around that. You find the evidence to support the
46:18
Speaker 4: message you want to put out there, you work backwards.
46:22
Speaker 3: That's pr not reporting.
46:25
Speaker 2: What's funny about this is the reason there's a part
46:27
Speaker 2: two to this documentary. And I was kind of confused
46:30
Speaker 2: when I watched part two because she says right up
46:33
Speaker 2: front that this is a thing we aired a long
46:35
Speaker 2: time ago and we're just replaying it tonight, But they
46:38
Speaker 2: presented as part two of this. The reason they did
46:40
Speaker 2: that is because one of the other, like minor complaints
46:44
Speaker 2: was that they didn't focus enough on social media's role
46:49
Speaker 2: in the January sixth riots. And she was like, yeah,
46:52
Speaker 2: it's because we did a whole episode about that six
46:55
Speaker 2: months ago. And so they ended up like tagging that
46:59
Speaker 2: on as part two after this report comes out, So
47:02
Speaker 2: they were kind of like trolling this report by making
47:06
Speaker 2: that old episode part two of this documentary. And I
47:10
Speaker 2: mean it's all the same interviews, all the same people,
47:12
Speaker 2: so it makes sense. But yeah, that's kind of it.
47:15
Speaker 2: It's an interesting watch. It's I think the best documentary,
47:18
Speaker 2: maybe the only documentary about the twenty twenty election fraud theories.
47:23
Speaker 4: And it was good to see it from a different perspective,
47:28
Speaker 4: you know, like the Australian view of the American election,
47:32
Speaker 4: not Americans, because it is also hard for us to
47:34
Speaker 4: be objective about ourselves. We all have an emotional you know,
47:37
Speaker 4: horse in this race, and I just found it's impassat
47:41
Speaker 4: when they got to like how this happened in media,
47:43
Speaker 4: how this happened in journalism, and they have to be like,
47:45
Speaker 4: it was America. That's why Roger went, That's why Rupert
47:49
Speaker 4: went to America, because it's not like here or in Europe,
47:53
Speaker 4: you know.
47:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we had rules in place prior to the
47:56
Speaker 2: mid nineties that would have prevented an outlet like Fox
48:01
Speaker 2: News from even existing. It's the same reason shows like
48:05
Speaker 2: Extra happened, And there used to be like standards that
48:11
Speaker 2: if your show was aired at a certain time of
48:14
Speaker 2: day there had to be like some sort of educational
48:17
Speaker 2: value to it, or it had to be like if
48:20
Speaker 2: it was news, it had to like help the world
48:22
Speaker 2: in some way. And we just stripped all that away.
48:25
Speaker 2: I mean, Fox News happened like a week later.
48:28
Speaker 4: The one like silver lining I try and take from
48:31
Speaker 4: Trump and Fox and all of this is like, as
48:35
Speaker 4: we said, this is not actually new practice for the
48:39
Speaker 4: CIA or for you know, very subjective for people with
48:43
Speaker 4: power to be just kind of using what we see
48:45
Speaker 4: as news to actually have very very particular messaging out there.
48:50
Speaker 4: But it's gotten so egregious that I mean, my only
48:55
Speaker 4: hope is that it's just that they've gotten so egregiously,
48:58
Speaker 4: you know, they feel so untouched about it that it's
49:02
Speaker 4: like they're getting sloppy, you know. And the whole reason
49:05
Speaker 4: we can talk about this is because they're starting to
49:09
Speaker 4: overstep and get sloppy with stuff that has been going
49:11
Speaker 4: on the whole time.
49:12
Speaker 3: It's not new.
49:13
Speaker 4: None of these guys are smart enough to come up
49:15
Speaker 4: with this playbook. They're you know, dumb enough to fuck
49:19
Speaker 4: it up. Hopefully, for the rest of them, or they're
49:22
Speaker 4: showing their hands. Yeah, you know, that's the only hope
49:24
Speaker 4: is that it's so bad now people.
49:26
Speaker 3: Are going to be like, Okay, we got ok I
49:28
Speaker 3: got to acknowledge tho.
49:29
Speaker 2: Now, as as much as I just downplayed Watergate as
49:33
Speaker 2: being as huge of a scandalous people make it out
49:35
Speaker 2: to be, we absolutely need another Watergate moment in this country,
49:40
Speaker 2: Like there needs to be that collective outrage at something
49:45
Speaker 2: we find out that makes us want to change things.
49:49
Speaker 2: The problem is when we did it with Watergate, it
49:53
Speaker 2: resulted in the Church Committee hearings, which is where we
49:56
Speaker 2: told CIA they can't operate in the United States anymore.
50:00
Speaker 2: And then the next thing we did was like elect
50:03
Speaker 2: the director of the CIA as vice president, and then
50:07
Speaker 2: the CIA just started doing whatever they wanted all around
50:10
Speaker 2: the world in the eighties and nineties instead of doing
50:14
Speaker 2: it here. So like our big Watergate moment didn't help.
50:18
Speaker 2: It didn't really change anything. It just pushed the CIA
50:22
Speaker 2: kind of into more secretive parts.
50:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're not.
50:26
Speaker 4: I mean, CIA messaging in media is very president like.
50:31
Speaker 4: There's lots of old you know, documents and stuff talking
50:35
Speaker 4: about the CIA's connection to Hollywood and putting out certain
50:38
Speaker 4: types of movies that show soldiers and America and very
50:42
Speaker 4: certain propaganda like lights. You know, like you know, there's
50:46
Speaker 4: still elements of like you don't talk about this, you don't.
50:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, the CIA, if you go on their website, they
50:52
Speaker 2: have a Hollywood Liaison department where that's their whole job
50:58
Speaker 2: is to just consult with films on how they want
51:02
Speaker 2: the CIA to look, which is why I keep bringing
51:04
Speaker 2: up that in twenty twenty three, of all the movies
51:08
Speaker 2: I don't want to see anymore, it's a movie that
51:10
Speaker 2: makes like a CIA agent look cool and like he's
51:13
Speaker 2: out there saving the world from terrorists. Like, fuck you,
51:17
Speaker 2: that's not what the CIA does, not trying to watch
51:19
Speaker 2: the guy from the office topple the Venezuelan government. Fuck off. Yeah. Thanks,
51:26
Speaker 2: And I.
51:26
Speaker 4: Feel like we should see who's really in the CIA,
51:29
Speaker 4: Like see how annoying most of these people are.
51:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what you said about lazy reporting too, that's
51:35
Speaker 2: where like the media is. If you're taking a press
51:39
Speaker 2: release and just reporting it as news, you're really kind
51:42
Speaker 2: of setting yourself up to be called the enemy of
51:45
Speaker 2: the people because just because coming from an official source,
51:49
Speaker 2: you still got to look into that.
51:50
Speaker 4: I mean, there's there's lazy reporters, but there's also you know,
51:54
Speaker 4: pressure from the top, the managers, the editors, you know, yeah,
51:59
Speaker 4: who can all what the reporter can only write so
52:02
Speaker 4: much at their laptop. It's the editors and the managers
52:05
Speaker 4: that decide whether it goes in, how it goes in,
52:08
Speaker 4: you know, final say so, I can also see reporters
52:11
Speaker 4: just getting dejected and being like, now, this is just
52:12
Speaker 4: my job.
52:13
Speaker 3: I tried, I tried, caring didn't work.
52:16
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And you see it with outlets in this
52:19
Speaker 2: country too. It's not just like politically sensitive stuff that.
52:24
Speaker 3: Get paid like shit like teachers.
52:26
Speaker 2: Yeah. And another thing that plays into media coverage in
52:30
Speaker 2: this country is advertising money. And the example of.
52:34
Speaker 4: That at this point, how many of these articles are
52:36
Speaker 4: like put the press release into AI and be like,
52:39
Speaker 4: write this as a news article.
52:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And the thing with advertising money, the example
52:44
Speaker 2: I always bring up is McDonald's. Pretty early into the
52:48
Speaker 2: Me Too movement, there was a nationwide walkout, Like there
52:53
Speaker 2: were workers in McDonald's outlets all over the country that
52:58
Speaker 2: walked out during lunch out or to protest a pervasive
53:03
Speaker 2: culture of sexual harassment. Nicktoo sexual abuse at McDonald's. Almost
53:09
Speaker 2: no one reported on that shit like that. Was not
53:13
Speaker 2: only the first American corporation that got hit with a
53:17
Speaker 2: me too action like that, they are one of the
53:20
Speaker 2: biggest quarter Also, there's.
53:21
Speaker 4: A documentary I saw on Netflix something about like where
53:25
Speaker 4: the phone call is coming from?
53:27
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you saw that.
53:28
Speaker 4: The guy that's create doing these prank calls it fast
53:31
Speaker 4: food restaurants all over getting like managers to strip search
53:34
Speaker 4: their employees and like adult manager men's like strip searching
53:39
Speaker 4: young teenage women and assaulting them. And it was an epidemic.
53:44
Speaker 4: It was happening all across the country. Like it was
53:46
Speaker 4: like one guy apparently calling people all over the country.
53:49
Speaker 4: And the reason it could go on so long as
53:51
Speaker 4: somebody was squashing all the reporting and the news stories
53:54
Speaker 4: on it. And McDonald's was not telling other franchises, by
53:58
Speaker 4: the way, look out for this sort of behavior, lookout
54:00
Speaker 4: for calls that say this. They just kept it quiet,
54:03
Speaker 4: which actually made it happen to such a larger scale
54:07
Speaker 4: because they were more concerned with people not hearing this
54:10
Speaker 4: story rather than preventing it from happening.
54:12
Speaker 2: Right, And they have leverage over outlets because McDonald spends
54:16
Speaker 2: so much ad money, probably enough that they can go
54:19
Speaker 2: to the New York Times and be like, hey, the
54:21
Speaker 2: Daily Beast will report on that strike. Just let them
54:24
Speaker 2: have the story.
54:25
Speaker 4: And that's what we're messaging from the topic. I don't
54:27
Speaker 4: write the articles, but as the top I'll go to
54:29
Speaker 4: the managers and I'll go, hey, you know what, we
54:31
Speaker 4: don't want anyone reporting on this. That's not the messaging
54:34
Speaker 4: we want for the brand.
54:35
Speaker 2: Right. It happens, and this documentary is a good example
54:40
Speaker 2: of how the media can be manipulated in this country.
54:44
Speaker 2: Even though it's an Australian documentary, it's about us.
54:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's nice that they really take down the
54:50
Speaker 4: like I didn't think about the Murdocks. It's so succession.
54:53
Speaker 4: If you like succession, you'll love this documentary.
54:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's absolutely true. It is very succes session like
55:00
Speaker 2: and we'll link to it in the show notes. It's free.
55:04
Speaker 2: You can just watch it online. It's two parts. They're
55:07
Speaker 2: both like forty five minutes. It's an easy watch and
55:10
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's the only documentary about
55:15
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty election theories that isn't pro those theories,
55:20
Speaker 2: like the other documentaries about this are conspiracy theory documentaries
55:25
Speaker 2: that want you to believe the election was stolen, and
55:28
Speaker 2: this is a good one that goes in the other direction.
55:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.
55:32
Speaker 4: I mean I feel like there's got to be like
55:33
Speaker 4: the liberal tint out there, but then it's also just
55:35
Speaker 4: going to be like how is it that these people exist,
55:38
Speaker 4: Like they tend to just like demonize instead of investigate,
55:43
Speaker 4: you know.
55:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I think that's our episode. Right, we
55:47
Speaker 2: did it.
55:47
Speaker 3: I feel good about it.
55:48
Speaker 2: I feel like we made it. It's almost as long
55:51
Speaker 2: as the documentary.
55:52
Speaker 4: There you go, and we give Trump a lot less
55:54
Speaker 4: air time.
55:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
55:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's like the least important one.
55:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's almost yeah, kind of the least important person
56:02
Speaker 2: in this because, like you expect a president if a
56:04
Speaker 2: news media organization is like, hey, we'll be your whole mouthpiece, No,
56:08
Speaker 2: president's going to say no.
56:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like Trump is what he is. That's yeah,
56:12
Speaker 3: we all know that. There's not like how could he
56:15
Speaker 3: like we all know what Trump is.
56:16
Speaker 4: The egregious this here is like why did this entire
56:20
Speaker 4: news you know, conglomerate just go yeah whatever you say, boss.
56:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's gross, it's fucking gross. Uh, Samantha, thank
56:27
Speaker 2: you so much for doing that. Do you have anything
56:30
Speaker 2: to plug before we get out of here?
56:32
Speaker 1: Uh?
56:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've run a show at El Said in Los Angeles. Now,
56:36
Speaker 4: if anyone's around Hollywood's Silver Lake area on the fourth
56:41
Speaker 4: Fridays of every month, So the next one, it's June
56:44
Speaker 4: twenty third, it'll be super fun.
56:46
Speaker 3: It's on the patio seven thirty to nine thirty.
56:48
Speaker 4: I have cheerleading, go go dancers, drag queens, stand up comedians, clowns,
56:54
Speaker 4: just a whole variety of fun. So come and check
56:57
Speaker 4: it out. It's called Comedy Go Go At Comedy Go
56:59
Speaker 4: Go show on Instagram, and I met Sam Sweets on
57:02
Speaker 4: Instagram and Twitter and wherever else. I made a handle
57:05
Speaker 4: and don't update, and I'm only fans. By the way,
57:09
Speaker 4: I did get somebody on only fans complimented how I
57:12
Speaker 4: was on an Unpops episode.
57:13
Speaker 3: So thank you, very nice.
57:17
Speaker 2: Changing lives. There's so much happening with the network right
57:21
Speaker 2: now there. We changed the name for legal reasons.
57:26
Speaker 3: Mostly I can't wait to see the documentary.
57:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Oh, the behind the scenes wrangling, it's been nuts.
57:32
Speaker 2: Me and my brothers have all had a real falling out.
57:35
Speaker 2: I don't have any brothers. Just follow me on Instagram
57:37
Speaker 2: for right now at Adam Todd Brown. It's timing.
57:40
Speaker 3: Did you ever get that needle out of your face?
57:42
Speaker 2: Yeah?
57:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh thank god.
57:44
Speaker 2: But the recovery from the surgery has sucked. But there's
57:47
Speaker 2: no needle there anymore.
57:49
Speaker 3: Oh.
57:50
Speaker 2: I'm also on Blue Sky. Not to brag. It's an
57:54
Speaker 2: invite only thing, but if you're on Blue Sky, follow
57:57
Speaker 2: me there, but only if you're invited by someone who
58:00
Speaker 2: invites you. And I only have one invite code, So
58:04
Speaker 2: back off, everybody. I'm going to burn it in the streets.
58:08
Speaker 3: You just blue balled me from Blue Sky.
58:10
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have I'm gonna set up a burner account
58:13
Speaker 2: with it. It's the second every invite I get. I'm
58:17
Speaker 2: gonna be two thirds of Blue Sky by the time
58:19
Speaker 2: I'm done. And I think that's it. We can get
58:21
Speaker 2: out here, right. Sounds good, Samantha, say goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, everybody.
58:26
Speaker 2: We love you
58:32
Speaker 4: People of the kind of