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SMNTY Classics: The FDA's New Rule on Telemedicine Abortion · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane
0:07
Speaker 1: never told your production of I Heeart Radio. So Samantha,
0:20
Speaker 1: as you know, unfortunately we're having to talk a lot
0:24
Speaker 1: about abortion lately. Not that we shouldn't talk about it,
0:27
Speaker 1: but it's unfortunate that we have to talk about it
0:29
Speaker 1: right now. Right? Can I ask you, like if I
0:33
Speaker 1: had asked, I don't know, four or five years ago,
0:35
Speaker 1: would you have known that the abortion pill was a thing,
0:38
Speaker 1: could be a thing? You know. I don't think I
0:41
Speaker 1: actually knew about it until a couple of years ago
0:43
Speaker 1: as a thing. I assume the old school tactics of abortion,
0:48
Speaker 1: the d n C, I believe is what was accessible
0:51
Speaker 1: in a story. I knew about Plan B. But that's
0:54
Speaker 1: a whole different level in just finding out that Plan
0:57
Speaker 1: B if you're over a hundred pounds, it's isn't it's
1:00
Speaker 1: not effective? Oh, oh my goodness. Yeah. There's so many
1:06
Speaker 1: things that are frustrating about this conversation, uh, And we've
1:09
Speaker 1: talked about many of them at length, and there are
1:11
Speaker 1: plenty more to go. One of them is to me, though,
1:14
Speaker 1: that like information is kept for most purposefully, and we
1:18
Speaker 1: have such a poor record of sex education in this country,
1:24
Speaker 1: and Plan B would be one. I don't think I
1:26
Speaker 1: knew what that was until well into college, which is
1:30
Speaker 1: feels ridiculous, but I get like, looking back, I grew
1:34
Speaker 1: up in a small conservative town. They didn't really talk
1:38
Speaker 1: about any of this. Um abstinence was taught at my school.
1:43
Speaker 1: You yeah. And and so with all of the very
1:49
Speaker 1: frankly pretty scary stuff happening around abortion here in the
1:53
Speaker 1: United States, we really thought it was important to bring
1:55
Speaker 1: back this classic episode. We did with Bridget Todd, who
1:59
Speaker 1: recently reran in it on her show. There are no
2:02
Speaker 1: girls on the Internet, but we thought it's important enough.
2:05
Speaker 1: Let's just run it everywhere about tele medicine UM and
2:11
Speaker 1: the abortion pill, which is still available as we speak.
2:17
Speaker 1: As we speak, and it's very safe and it's a very,
2:21
Speaker 1: uh from what I've read, an option that a lot
2:25
Speaker 1: of people prefer. Just I know it can be gloom
2:29
Speaker 1: and doom, but do your research. There's still abortion available
2:33
Speaker 1: in one way or the other right now. So uh,
2:38
Speaker 1: please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is any and Samantha.
2:47
Speaker 1: I'm welcome to stuff I never told you production of
2:49
Speaker 1: I Hire Radio. And we are through to once again
3:01
Speaker 1: be joined by our good friend, the amazing, so talented
3:07
Speaker 1: Bridget Todd. Oh. I'm so happy here. Thank you for
3:10
Speaker 1: having me. I'm I told you earlier. I was drinking
3:13
Speaker 1: a little sparkling wine to celebrate the holiday season and
3:17
Speaker 1: getting to hang out with you all. I'm so excited. Yes, yes,
3:20
Speaker 1: they're so excited too. And this one is actually pretty
3:24
Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk about it. Some rare good news,
3:28
Speaker 1: I feel. But yes, um, Bridget Uh, We're we're coming
3:34
Speaker 1: toward the end of the year and this is we're
3:36
Speaker 1: kind of finishing up recordings for one which is weird,
3:41
Speaker 1: very very strange. Do you have anything I know last
3:44
Speaker 1: time we talked about weird Christmas? Is there anything else
3:46
Speaker 1: like on the horizon you're excited about? Later today we're
3:49
Speaker 1: leaving for our weirdo Christmas, which I'm so ecstatic about,
3:53
Speaker 1: so happy. Yeah, I'm also spending the holidays with my
3:57
Speaker 1: brand new, fresh out the oven niece, little baby three
4:02
Speaker 1: months old and the cutest kid in the world. I
4:05
Speaker 1: am ob tested with her. She doesn't know that I'm
4:07
Speaker 1: a person, but we'll get there. Baby steps, as they say, right,
4:12
Speaker 1: I don't think they recognize you as a person until
4:15
Speaker 1: they're literally in their adolescence because until then you are
4:18
Speaker 1: their servants to give to them what they want. Essentially,
4:21
Speaker 1: is what I've discovered with all the young uns pretty much. Yeah,
4:28
Speaker 1: I'm telling you probably I'm gonna say seven. Oh, okay,
4:32
Speaker 1: I think you and I have different ideas of adolescents.
4:35
Speaker 1: And okay, am I saying that wrong? I don't. I
4:38
Speaker 1: just always thought that was like twelve years. Well, this
4:43
Speaker 1: is we're going to get hung up in in vernacular
4:45
Speaker 1: that we don't need to get into right now. But
4:47
Speaker 1: now I'm clear on what you mean. Okay, I got you.
4:51
Speaker 1: Now I'm having to question it anyway, Yes, move on.
4:54
Speaker 1: I'm excited. Judy is that her name? That's such a
4:57
Speaker 1: great name. We're throwing it back a little bit. Yes,
5:00
Speaker 1: it's It can be turned into all kinds of cute nicknames.
5:03
Speaker 1: I call her Judy Cutie. Again. She doesn't understand that
5:07
Speaker 1: I'm speaking to her. She only now just realized that
5:09
Speaker 1: she has like hands and a tongue. So we're at
5:13
Speaker 1: your baby steps. Yeah, yeah, do you all have fun
5:17
Speaker 1: holiday plans? Uh? Well, we teld you about our kind
5:21
Speaker 1: of weirdo New Years, which is essentially staying in and
5:25
Speaker 1: wearing one's ees, watching pies. I do make like the
5:29
Speaker 1: traditional soup, you know, the yes, exactly exactly. I can't.
5:38
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly, it's been going so well for me.
5:41
Speaker 1: So maybe I didn't get the right type of collared greens.
5:45
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if you know this, Bridget,
5:46
Speaker 1: But right before the pandemic, I really said in my
5:49
Speaker 1: New Year's resolution was to stay in more. Oh and
5:53
Speaker 1: that's the thing that I feel like I ruined everything
5:58
Speaker 1: a curse. I think you're to blame. I'm sure I
6:02
Speaker 1: thought my first ever planner for I usually never buy
6:06
Speaker 1: a planners about my first ever in life planner, and
6:09
Speaker 1: I wrote, I wrote all kinds of goals dream Oh. Yeah.
6:16
Speaker 1: We had a whole episode about predicting what would happen,
6:19
Speaker 1: and we were real wrong, like the wrongest that we
6:23
Speaker 1: could be. I think we hit those Essentially, it's one
6:26
Speaker 1: for the books, that episode. Yeah, we kind of it
6:30
Speaker 1: almost had to be an apology, like sorry, we have
6:34
Speaker 1: to retract something. Essentially, we just go ahead and we
6:41
Speaker 1: were the conspiracy theories about five g We were right
6:44
Speaker 1: about that. There were we didn't know how far it
6:47
Speaker 1: would go. We just did not have the imaginations to
6:51
Speaker 1: match the reality. Uh, for myself, it is going to
6:55
Speaker 1: be a very low key low key I say, because
6:59
Speaker 1: we are are going to partners Christmas. This is our
7:02
Speaker 1: first big deal Christmas, I guess, And I say low
7:07
Speaker 1: key because I am anxious written about it, and so
7:09
Speaker 1: I'm pretending like it's not happening. So I'm sure the
7:12
Speaker 1: day we drive there is when I'm gonna have a
7:14
Speaker 1: panic attack, which is silly because they're great people, but
7:16
Speaker 1: in my head, this is a new situation. So I'm like, good,
7:22
Speaker 1: so we'll see what happens. You should watch a lot
7:24
Speaker 1: of holiday movies like um, The Family Stone, like like
7:28
Speaker 1: you know holiday movies where it's like, oh, they're like
7:31
Speaker 1: a new partner visiting for the holidays to sort of
7:34
Speaker 1: get get your mind right. Wait, have you seen Holiday Stone?
7:37
Speaker 1: Because it does not end well what happened? Oh, don't
7:43
Speaker 1: watch that one. It's gonna go much better than that.
7:45
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. You're because it's not over the
7:52
Speaker 1: top that I was like, oh my god, this is
7:54
Speaker 1: so depressing. Why am I watching those? Every wrong thing
7:57
Speaker 1: has happened? And Nolbridge is like, I hope that upaul
8:00
Speaker 1: on you. I thought we were friends. That won't happen.
8:04
Speaker 1: It'll be that'll be a representation of what will what
8:07
Speaker 1: will not. Right there we go, Okay, okay, I'm gonna
8:12
Speaker 1: I'll take that. That was very very funny. Also, I
8:18
Speaker 1: just want to say, Bridget, thank you for complimenting my
8:20
Speaker 1: very direky Star Wars Boba Fette sweater. So it's actually
8:23
Speaker 1: a big deal because it's a gift from my older
8:26
Speaker 1: brother and he's never given me a gift in my
8:29
Speaker 1: entire life. So yeah, I know, I'm like, all right, Mark,
8:35
Speaker 1: because he was like I knew this, this is for you.
8:38
Speaker 1: There's no way I couldn't get this. You are correct,
8:41
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, it's a very antie gift. Kudos to
8:45
Speaker 1: the brother. Yes, and Annie has is it now? Six
8:50
Speaker 1: five six different Star Wars Christmas sweaters, none of which
8:55
Speaker 1: I purchased, So people do know me very well. But yes,
9:00
Speaker 1: so I'm trying to get through the catalog while I can,
9:03
Speaker 1: while it's acceptable, even though it's mostly just me in
9:05
Speaker 1: my apartment, so I guess it doesn't matter. I could
9:07
Speaker 1: wear them whenever. All right, So we are also excited
9:11
Speaker 1: to discuss the topic he bought today, Bridget Um, So
9:17
Speaker 1: what are we going to be discussing. It feels like,
9:20
Speaker 1: let's go. I know, it's like it's like it feels
9:22
Speaker 1: like a little bit of a gift for once. I
9:24
Speaker 1: am excited to share we have a little bit of
9:26
Speaker 1: positive news for people who have uterus is can you imagine?
9:29
Speaker 1: That feels like all we ever get is like, oh,
9:32
Speaker 1: we're bad news, We're bad news. But actually, just yesterday,
9:36
Speaker 1: the Food and Drug Administration the FDA announced a permanent
9:39
Speaker 1: repeal of the in person dispensing requirement for I actually
9:43
Speaker 1: have the pronunciations spelled out. If I butcher dis pronunciation,
9:47
Speaker 1: Please don't come after me. Myth A prity zone one
9:51
Speaker 1: of the two medications used in medication abortion a k a.
9:55
Speaker 1: The abortion pill. So uh, pretty exciting, it's a it's
9:58
Speaker 1: a I'm cautiously optimistic and pretty comfortable saying like it's
10:04
Speaker 1: a good thing. Well discuss like why it's sort of
10:07
Speaker 1: like not the best thing, but it's definitely a step
10:10
Speaker 1: in the right direction, and so I'm comfortable like these days,
10:13
Speaker 1: you gotta take a w however you can get it.
10:15
Speaker 1: So I'm comfortable saying this is a small win for
10:19
Speaker 1: abortion rights, which is such a yeah, A sentence, my
10:23
Speaker 1: brain did not know how to process. When I was
10:26
Speaker 1: looking over your outline, I was like, right, I feel
10:30
Speaker 1: the same way. I really feel maybe we've just so
10:33
Speaker 1: traumatized previously and we're all on edge that I'm like, yeah,
10:37
Speaker 1: but but what like just waiting but instead of celebrating, Hey,
10:42
Speaker 1: this is good news because it is a step forward.
10:46
Speaker 1: But totally as someone who is pretty involved in the
10:53
Speaker 1: fight for abortion rights and access and reproductive justice, I
10:56
Speaker 1: know exactly that that weird feeling you're describing when but
11:00
Speaker 1: qualified within then sort of like well, and then ultimately
11:04
Speaker 1: I guess I feel that we shouldn't have to be
11:06
Speaker 1: fighting for this stuff in general, like we should. Everybody
11:09
Speaker 1: deserves to have autonomy over their own body, access to
11:12
Speaker 1: health care, access to abortion care if they need it.
11:15
Speaker 1: Even the conversation I feel is we shouldn't even have
11:19
Speaker 1: to be fighting for stuff like this. But you know,
11:21
Speaker 1: in the fight for abortion rights that can be very negative,
11:24
Speaker 1: very taking many, many many steps back, and so I
11:28
Speaker 1: do think it's important to, you know, highlight when we
11:31
Speaker 1: have something that is not awful happening, and this is
11:49
Speaker 1: actually something I think I've seen it in the headlines
11:52
Speaker 1: and I know you and I talked about it bridget
11:55
Speaker 1: a while back, several years ago, and I not I
11:57
Speaker 1: didn't really know much about the abortion pill. So can
12:01
Speaker 1: you can you tell us what it is and how
12:03
Speaker 1: it works? Absolutely so? According to Planned Parenthood, the so
12:07
Speaker 1: called abortion pill is a popular name for two different
12:10
Speaker 1: medicines used to end a pregnancy, miffor pretty zone and
12:14
Speaker 1: another one myso prosatol. So pregnancy needs the hormone called
12:19
Speaker 1: pro estrogen to grow normally, and miffor pretty zone blocks
12:23
Speaker 1: your protys own pro estrogen. And so basically it's just
12:26
Speaker 1: a combination of pills that you take to induce an abortion. Yes,
12:30
Speaker 1: And I know, like you know, this conversation isn't only
12:34
Speaker 1: limited to the US, was it Ireland? Had it somewhere?
12:36
Speaker 1: Had a similar kind of conversation with Scotland and Andy,
12:40
Speaker 1: you and I we did that whole episode about um
12:43
Speaker 1: the changing rules in the UK because the United States
12:46
Speaker 1: and so this is definitely a global issue and issue
12:49
Speaker 1: where like other countries and other regions have have different
12:52
Speaker 1: standards of the legality of how pregnant people can access
12:56
Speaker 1: this kind of medication to get the abortion here they need. Yeah,
12:59
Speaker 1: and one of the things that we talked about in
13:02
Speaker 1: that episode was also tele medicine UM and being able
13:07
Speaker 1: to get it and like from the comfort of your
13:09
Speaker 1: own home, and how important that was for a lot
13:10
Speaker 1: of people for this UM. So, can you share the
13:15
Speaker 1: history of this kind of abortion care via telemedicine in
13:19
Speaker 1: the US? Totally? So tell a medicine if you don't
13:22
Speaker 1: know what that is is basically when you access your
13:24
Speaker 1: doctor through the Internet, through your phone through video conferencing.
13:28
Speaker 1: That's kind of like the thing for me that makes
13:30
Speaker 1: this kind of a tech story is that people have
13:32
Speaker 1: been relying on that kind of technology enabled healthcare for
13:37
Speaker 1: a really long time. So abortion via telemedicine has been
13:40
Speaker 1: available in the U s SCE around two thousand and eight,
13:42
Speaker 1: when the first formal program began an eye Love, a
13:44
Speaker 1: patient and one clinic can confer via video conference with
13:47
Speaker 1: a doctor and another clinic and then they would get
13:50
Speaker 1: their pills to induce an abortion. And that video conferencing
13:53
Speaker 1: element that satisfied a federal requirement that a doctor had
13:57
Speaker 1: to dispense the medication to induce an abortion in a
14:01
Speaker 1: clinic office or hospital. And so that was a real
14:03
Speaker 1: instance where technology bridged that gap. That's satisfied this federal
14:08
Speaker 1: requirement that a doctor dispense I'm using quotes around that
14:12
Speaker 1: this medication. And so there are so many reasons why
14:15
Speaker 1: that would be a huge deal for people who are
14:19
Speaker 1: pregnant or really anybody looking for any kind of healthcare.
14:21
Speaker 1: Because if you're someone who lives in a rural community
14:24
Speaker 1: or a remote community, you can't always get to a clinic.
14:26
Speaker 1: Maybe there's not one close. Let's say you don't have
14:28
Speaker 1: a car. Let's say you're just a busy person in
14:30
Speaker 1: a lot on your plate, and you can't physically go
14:33
Speaker 1: see a doctor. Telemedicine really is this thing that can
14:37
Speaker 1: really bridge that gap and bring the health care that
14:41
Speaker 1: folks need right into their homes, and so huge, huge deal. Unfortunately,
14:45
Speaker 1: opponents responded pretty quickly prohibiting abortion via telemedicine in twenty state.
14:51
Speaker 1: In the US, the FDA regulates medication abortion under a
14:54
Speaker 1: set of rules called the Risk Evaluation and Medication Strategy
14:57
Speaker 1: or r e m S. We should turn means how
15:00
Speaker 1: and which doctors can provide abortion pills to patients. There
15:03
Speaker 1: was this really interesting paper called sixteen years of Overregulation,
15:07
Speaker 1: Time to Unburden Myths, published in twenty seventeen in the
15:11
Speaker 1: New England Journal of Medicine. UM we're leading clinicians and
15:14
Speaker 1: public health experts argued that the FDA restrictions were medically unnecessary,
15:18
Speaker 1: and a c l U attorneys noted that the leading
15:20
Speaker 1: medical groups, including the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists,
15:25
Speaker 1: support making abortion bills available by prescription at pharmacies UM.
15:29
Speaker 1: And here's a really good quote from one of the doctors.
15:30
Speaker 1: He says, overwhelming medical evidence and decades of clinical experience
15:34
Speaker 1: show medication abortion to be a safe and effective method
15:37
Speaker 1: to end pregnancy. There are simply no medical justifications for
15:40
Speaker 1: these restrictions, and they create a needless and harmful burden
15:43
Speaker 1: for women seeking in this care. And I think that
15:46
Speaker 1: really sums up I feel what this conversation is about.
15:49
Speaker 1: It's about what happens when there are needless and undo
15:53
Speaker 1: burdens that separate people from the medical care and including
15:56
Speaker 1: abortion care that they need. And in one of the
16:00
Speaker 1: things that happens is that people who who need an abortion,
16:06
Speaker 1: who want an abortion resort to if they have these
16:09
Speaker 1: undue burdens, are these obstacles two less than reliable, perhaps
16:15
Speaker 1: less than safe, like online places where they can get
16:19
Speaker 1: these medications. Right, Yeah, so this actually really makes me sad.
16:24
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where I feel again, these
16:27
Speaker 1: burdens make people resort to things that are not always safe.
16:33
Speaker 1: In a study called exploring the Feasibility of Obtaining myth
16:36
Speaker 1: Repriti Zone and be so Protosol from the Internet, Elizabeth Raymond,
16:41
Speaker 1: a senior medical associate at the research organization Genuity, google
16:45
Speaker 1: phrases like by abortion pills online, and the researchers ended
16:49
Speaker 1: up ordering eighteen of the pill combinations from sixteen different websites,
16:52
Speaker 1: none of which required a prescription. Pills usually came from India,
16:56
Speaker 1: which there is a large generic drug industry there, and
16:59
Speaker 1: the shipments usually call surround like a hundred and ten,
17:01
Speaker 1: three and sixty dollars, and they took about three days
17:04
Speaker 1: to three weeks to arrive. And so basically they found
17:08
Speaker 1: that these products they were getting when they would they
17:10
Speaker 1: would google things like abortion pills online, we're just kind
17:13
Speaker 1: of sketchy. They would have typos that would be language
17:17
Speaker 1: mistranslations in the in the packages. Um In one instance,
17:21
Speaker 1: the pills arrived with the blister packs had been broken,
17:24
Speaker 1: and the researchers think that was done intentionally because they
17:27
Speaker 1: didn't want someone to be like, oh, I think there's
17:29
Speaker 1: abortion pills in this package, so they would break the
17:31
Speaker 1: blister packs those things that keep pills from cracking um
17:35
Speaker 1: before sending them. And even more worryingly, none of these
17:39
Speaker 1: pills came with instructions for use, and so just like
17:43
Speaker 1: very sketchy, but you can see the kinds of things
17:45
Speaker 1: that people resort to when these burdens are put in
17:48
Speaker 1: place to keep them from the abortion care that they need. Right,
17:52
Speaker 1: I feel like this is just talking in a different
17:55
Speaker 1: way of what was happening in the early pre row
17:59
Speaker 1: versus way in trying to find solutions the best they can,
18:03
Speaker 1: especially for those who can't afford access in any way
18:07
Speaker 1: at all. Just not being able to pay a hundred
18:10
Speaker 1: dollars I'm assuming in a lot of things, when you
18:13
Speaker 1: start realizing that price is too good to be true,
18:16
Speaker 1: it probably is. And when we will talk about especially
18:20
Speaker 1: for healthcare and reproductive care, we already know, yeah, because
18:24
Speaker 1: people want this to fail, that people are not going
18:27
Speaker 1: to look and try to stop these these really sketchy situations,
18:31
Speaker 1: which is infuriating because that has put so many people
18:34
Speaker 1: with us in danger and so many people who are
18:36
Speaker 1: in a place that they cannot go to doctors. They
18:39
Speaker 1: cannot even afford tele medicine, even though that's a better access,
18:43
Speaker 1: thank goodness, is a step up. But we have things
18:45
Speaker 1: like kind amendment that prevents even trying to access it
18:49
Speaker 1: for those who can't afford these types of solutions that
18:51
Speaker 1: should already been existing. As you had said earlier, Oh absolutely.
18:54
Speaker 1: You reminded me of one of my favorite quotes from
18:56
Speaker 1: one of my idols, shortly Chisholm. She says, no matter what,
19:00
Speaker 1: and think, abortion is the fact of life. Women have
19:02
Speaker 1: always had them. They always have and they always will.
19:04
Speaker 1: Are they going to have good ones or bad ones?
19:07
Speaker 1: Will the good ones be reserved for the rich? Will
19:08
Speaker 1: the poor women go to quacks? And I feel like
19:11
Speaker 1: that really sums it up, you know, this idea that
19:13
Speaker 1: when you know, surely just is almost talking about this
19:16
Speaker 1: in the seventies, and here we are in still having
19:19
Speaker 1: this conversation about whether or not people who don't have
19:23
Speaker 1: access or influence or financial means. Are we going to
19:28
Speaker 1: say that it's okay for them to have to access
19:31
Speaker 1: abortion care through sketchy means, via quacks, via like pills
19:35
Speaker 1: that maybe aren't super you know, on the level, and
19:38
Speaker 1: I think the answer should be no. Everybody deserves medical care,
19:42
Speaker 1: everybody deserves abortion care if that's what they need. And
19:45
Speaker 1: it makes me so sad that, just like you said this,
19:48
Speaker 1: it's kind of an updated version of the same conversation
19:51
Speaker 1: we've been having since the sixties and seventies, and it's
19:53
Speaker 1: so depressing in that regards here to put a dark
19:56
Speaker 1: cloud everything you can always count on you. I feel
19:59
Speaker 1: like we need to sound effect like the more you know,
20:02
Speaker 1: but it's like Samantha's dark cloud. I think it should
20:05
Speaker 1: be like D work on that later. This also reminds
20:11
Speaker 1: me of because a lot of what you talk about,
20:12
Speaker 1: Bridget has to do with, yes, the Internet and misinformation
20:15
Speaker 1: and disinformation. And I know we've had conversations around CPCs
20:19
Speaker 1: or crisis pregnancy centers and how when you'll type you know,
20:21
Speaker 1: where do I get in abortion? A lot of times
20:23
Speaker 1: the results will be like the first results will be
20:26
Speaker 1: um D C PCs And I can just imagine for
20:29
Speaker 1: people trying to get access to to this medication the
20:33
Speaker 1: same kind of issue there, and then on top of
20:36
Speaker 1: that people have been arrested. Correct, Oh, absolutely so the
20:42
Speaker 1: s I a legal team, a group of lawyers who
20:44
Speaker 1: specialized in people who have induced their own abortions, knows
20:47
Speaker 1: of twenty one people who have been arrested or prosecuted
20:50
Speaker 1: for ending their pregnancies outside of this medical setting that
20:53
Speaker 1: was required, you know, in terms of medication abortion or
20:57
Speaker 1: helping someone else do it. This actually might be and
21:00
Speaker 1: be undercounted since they rely on news reports such fact
21:03
Speaker 1: these cases. The charges brought against people who self aboard
21:05
Speaker 1: can range from child abuse, the abuse of a corpse,
21:07
Speaker 1: or failure to report death. Now, to be clear, none
21:10
Speaker 1: of the women were prosecuted for buying abortion pills specifically,
21:13
Speaker 1: but they note that buying pills online or even googling
21:16
Speaker 1: phrases like buy abortion pills online, can leave a paper
21:20
Speaker 1: trail that can be used as evidence against them in
21:22
Speaker 1: a trial. And so this is not something that is
21:26
Speaker 1: abstract like we in this country, people have been prosecuted
21:31
Speaker 1: for trying to induce abortions on their own via pills
21:34
Speaker 1: they get online. Um a famous case in twenty fifteen, Indiana,
21:39
Speaker 1: woman named Pervy Patel was sentenced to twenty years in
21:41
Speaker 1: prison for feet aside after she allegedly used abortion pills
21:44
Speaker 1: that she ordered online. Prosecutors claimed that her feet as
21:47
Speaker 1: had been quote born alive and that she allowed it
21:50
Speaker 1: to die, but later her conviction was overturned on appeal.
21:53
Speaker 1: So again we are talking about very real circumstances where
21:58
Speaker 1: this this right to access abortion care via pills via
22:04
Speaker 1: tele medicine online has been really a fraud thing that
22:09
Speaker 1: people have been prosecuted for trying to do. And you know,
22:13
Speaker 1: we have all of these instances where people have subjected
22:16
Speaker 1: themselves to unsafe, sketchy abortion pills because of the undue
22:21
Speaker 1: burdens that have been put in place to prevent them
22:25
Speaker 1: from getting access to the care they need. The case
22:27
Speaker 1: for the woman in Indiana, even though it's not related,
22:31
Speaker 1: kind of brings back the memories of what just happened
22:33
Speaker 1: in Alabama recently with a woman who lost the fetus
22:37
Speaker 1: wanting to have this baby, not trying to have an abortion,
22:40
Speaker 1: but got prosecuted with those same types of charges for
22:45
Speaker 1: neglect of a fetus. And I'm like, we all were horrified,
22:49
Speaker 1: and had it not been publicized, she probably would still
22:51
Speaker 1: have remained in jail or prison. And it also takes
22:55
Speaker 1: me to what's happening in Texas as the Supreme Court
22:58
Speaker 1: is now allowing the bounty law what I'm calling it,
23:00
Speaker 1: I know that's not what it's actually called for it
23:03
Speaker 1: to go. And I'm wondering how this is going to affect, uh,
23:06
Speaker 1: if people are trying to access abortion pills, and then
23:09
Speaker 1: we are you already said I believe that twenty states
23:11
Speaker 1: are not allowing for this type of access in anyway.
23:15
Speaker 1: So I'm guessing Texas is one of those. I'm ones
23:17
Speaker 1: to guessing Georgia is to that. Wow, this is going
23:20
Speaker 1: to affect even more so in trying to prosecute those
23:24
Speaker 1: with yours or those who are helping trying to get
23:26
Speaker 1: access at all. Yeah, it's a great question, and I
23:29
Speaker 1: think it really underscores just what scary dire times we
23:34
Speaker 1: are in. You know, I remember talking to my mom about,
23:38
Speaker 1: you know, when she was coming of age protesting for
23:43
Speaker 1: you know, abortion on her campus, trying to get access
23:45
Speaker 1: to birth control pills, and she once told me she
23:49
Speaker 1: was like, oh, when I was doing all of that
23:50
Speaker 1: back then, I knew at least when I had a daughter,
23:53
Speaker 1: she wouldn't have to sort of fight these same fights,
23:56
Speaker 1: that these fights would be over and done with at
23:58
Speaker 1: the time my daughter was here, Well, talk about, you know,
24:02
Speaker 1: predictions that didn't come true. She was wrong. Here I
24:05
Speaker 1: am her adult daughter still having to deal with this
24:08
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. And so we are in a really
24:10
Speaker 1: scary time for abortion access for anybody who cares about
24:14
Speaker 1: abortion access, and that should really be everybody, everybody, regardless
24:18
Speaker 1: of gender, should care about this. And so I agree
24:21
Speaker 1: with you. I I think that sometimes I'll see, like
24:25
Speaker 1: I think it was Chris Hayes who tweeted something, and
24:27
Speaker 1: I like Chris Hayes, and I'm not I'm not trying
24:28
Speaker 1: to like get down on him, but he tweeted about
24:31
Speaker 1: I think the Texas abortion bill, like, oh, I think
24:33
Speaker 1: that we're going to see miscarriages being criminalized next. And
24:37
Speaker 1: it's like, I hate to break it to you, Chris Hayes,
24:39
Speaker 1: but we're there. That happened. You know. This is exactly
24:44
Speaker 1: that same level of like, oh my god, we're still
24:47
Speaker 1: fighting for access. We're still trying to have this conversation
24:50
Speaker 1: about bodily autonomy for those with uterus is those who
24:54
Speaker 1: are non binary, like trying to figure out how to
24:57
Speaker 1: even have rights at all. Like honestly, seeing the news
25:02
Speaker 1: as I talked about it earlier, I was like, but
25:05
Speaker 1: but waiting for you know, they had to job waiting for.
25:07
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's gonna go fall apart. I'm trying to
25:10
Speaker 1: figure out how even how the FDA even came to
25:13
Speaker 1: this point, How did we get here? Which is amazing,
25:15
Speaker 1: but how well. I actually have an answer for you,
25:18
Speaker 1: which is like, as much as I hated COVID, we
25:22
Speaker 1: kind of have COVID to thank for this important change.
25:25
Speaker 1: And so this new change, to be clear, um, it's
25:28
Speaker 1: not going to impact everyone on every state, like you said,
25:31
Speaker 1: but the reason why we have it is because of
25:33
Speaker 1: COVID restrictions. And so during the pandemic, medical groups filed
25:37
Speaker 1: a lawsuit asking that the in person dispensing requirement be
25:40
Speaker 1: lifted because the pandemic meant that patients were faced with
25:43
Speaker 1: a greater risk of being infected um with coronavirus if
25:46
Speaker 1: they were visiting clinics in person to get pills. And
25:49
Speaker 1: so a judge granted that request this that summer, but
25:53
Speaker 1: after a challenge by the Trump administration, of course, the
25:56
Speaker 1: Supreme Court reinstated the restriction. In March. Medical organizations it
26:00
Speaker 1: again right into President bide An end Vice President Harris
26:02
Speaker 1: in April, the FDA decided not to enforce the in
26:05
Speaker 1: person requirement for the duration of the pandemic and allowed
26:08
Speaker 1: uh these pills to be mailed to folks, and again yesterday,
26:11
Speaker 1: the big decision is that that change, which at that
26:13
Speaker 1: point was temporary, is going to be made permanent. And so,
26:17
Speaker 1: you know, the pandemic. I hate it. I hate it, obviously,
26:21
Speaker 1: but this is one of those things where I think
26:23
Speaker 1: that the people who were fighting for these regular this
26:25
Speaker 1: regulation change really saw a way to be like, you know,
26:29
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense to ask people to go in
26:31
Speaker 1: person to get the abortion care they need, particularly during
26:35
Speaker 1: a pandemic, and then being like and also, shouldn't we
26:38
Speaker 1: just end it all together? You know, I really appreciate
26:40
Speaker 1: them kind of like the strategy of this. Yeah, you know,
26:45
Speaker 1: you gotta find your like you said, your wins and
26:47
Speaker 1: your chances where you can and if it's a pandemic, well,
27:07
Speaker 1: so could you go into just a bit more like
27:10
Speaker 1: what exactly this this ruling is means in terms of like, yeah,
27:15
Speaker 1: the states and how how it's like specifically impacting different
27:20
Speaker 1: states and just what does it all mean? BRG Totally.
27:24
Speaker 1: I want to make clear that, like, it is important
27:27
Speaker 1: to note that this will not impact everyone in every state.
27:29
Speaker 1: As you said, in nineteen states, mostly in the South
27:32
Speaker 1: and the Midwest, telemedicine visits for abortion our banned, and
27:36
Speaker 1: so that really, you know, there's really no change in
27:39
Speaker 1: those states. And and then you know, because everything is awful,
27:44
Speaker 1: and that because you know, the powers that be are
27:47
Speaker 1: constantly shipping away at our rights and our our access
27:50
Speaker 1: to abortion care. Um, we do believe that conservative states
27:54
Speaker 1: are expected to pass other laws to further pertail the
27:57
Speaker 1: access to abortion pills. And so even know, again I
28:00
Speaker 1: feel like this is a win, I want to be clear,
28:02
Speaker 1: that is not a win that impacts everybody. And so
28:05
Speaker 1: this means that people who live in states that do
28:07
Speaker 1: not allow telemedicine for abortion must travel to a state
28:10
Speaker 1: that does. Although and this is kind of a weird point,
28:14
Speaker 1: they do not have to visit a clinic. They may
28:17
Speaker 1: be in any location within that state for their telehealth visit,
28:20
Speaker 1: even inside of a car. They may receive pills at
28:23
Speaker 1: any address in that state. So again, it just seems
28:28
Speaker 1: like such a weird, obviously burden to be like, well,
28:33
Speaker 1: if you're in this state that does not allow for
28:35
Speaker 1: telemedicine appointments for abortion pills, you can't get them, but
28:39
Speaker 1: if you drive to a state that does allow them,
28:42
Speaker 1: you can just sit in the Wendy's parking lot and
28:44
Speaker 1: have a telemedicine and visit over your phone in your car,
28:47
Speaker 1: and then that's all good. That again, it just seems
28:50
Speaker 1: like it's really reveals that this is about putting ridiculous
28:54
Speaker 1: burdens and barriers to prevent people from getting the abortion
28:57
Speaker 1: care they need. Like what if you don't have car,
29:00
Speaker 1: what if you don't have the financial means to drive
29:03
Speaker 1: to another state, what if you have to work or
29:05
Speaker 1: already have kids and don't really have the ability to
29:08
Speaker 1: just like take a trip like this. It seems like
29:10
Speaker 1: such an obvious way to just prevent people from getting
29:14
Speaker 1: the care they need. And like, to me, it's just
29:16
Speaker 1: like my both alarm goes off, Like this is clearly
29:20
Speaker 1: just like let's just make it hard for people to
29:22
Speaker 1: get the care they need. Yeah, I mean, this is
29:25
Speaker 1: such a like a much more superficial problem. But it
29:28
Speaker 1: reminds me of when I was a kid. Um we
29:31
Speaker 1: would drive to the border of Alabama and where I'm
29:34
Speaker 1: located in Georgia, and we'd right in the border. They'd
29:37
Speaker 1: be all these fireworks you're gonna say that we would
29:40
Speaker 1: get all these fireworks and be like, but if they're
29:42
Speaker 1: legal in Georgia, my parents would be like, you can't
29:45
Speaker 1: sell them, but we could shoot them off. I'm like,
29:47
Speaker 1: that makes no sense to me, right. I was looking
29:52
Speaker 1: the same thing with like alcohol cells, you know, within
29:55
Speaker 1: the Southern States, like they were very restrictive up until
29:58
Speaker 1: a certain point, so people would cross board orders to
30:00
Speaker 1: go get alcohol. So for the long time, Georgia couldn't
30:04
Speaker 1: sell it on Sundays, so people would go to Alabama
30:07
Speaker 1: like that would have access to it. Again, this is
30:09
Speaker 1: very like less harmful than any other the stuff, but
30:15
Speaker 1: it is also very reminiscent of the fact that they
30:17
Speaker 1: are shutting down clinics in certain states and so therefore
30:20
Speaker 1: we have to access clinics maybe two or three states
30:22
Speaker 1: away in general, And honestly, we've been watching what's happening
30:26
Speaker 1: with Poland as well, as they have had one of
30:28
Speaker 1: the harshest restrictions and bands um in the world as well,
30:32
Speaker 1: and it's fairly new and them talking about the fact
30:34
Speaker 1: that they're having to do essentially underground networks to get
30:37
Speaker 1: access to pills and to any type of reproductive health
30:41
Speaker 1: access by traveling across country borderlines in order to get access.
30:46
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's exactly what's happening in that level of
30:50
Speaker 1: state wise for us that yes, for some of these
30:53
Speaker 1: they're gonna make it so difficult that you will you
30:56
Speaker 1: will have to plan as if like you have to
30:59
Speaker 1: be a way for a week to get a pill
31:01
Speaker 1: um in order to get any kind of access, and
31:03
Speaker 1: if you can't afford it, sorry, then you're not allowed it. Yeah,
31:07
Speaker 1: and so just like what's happening in Poland, we're seeing
31:09
Speaker 1: some a bit of that here in the United States.
31:11
Speaker 1: So states like California and New York states where you
31:14
Speaker 1: can access abortion pills via telemedicine, they've taken steps in
31:17
Speaker 1: recent years to further solidify access to abortion, and they're
31:20
Speaker 1: expected to increase the availability of telemedicine for abortion pills,
31:24
Speaker 1: specifically to provide opportunities for folks and other states with
31:28
Speaker 1: these kinds of restrictions to obtain abortion pills by traveling
31:31
Speaker 1: to their state to get them. And so we are
31:33
Speaker 1: seeing this thing where other states that allow this are
31:37
Speaker 1: probably going to be stepping up so that people specifically
31:40
Speaker 1: so that people who live in states that you know,
31:42
Speaker 1: they can't access this can get them, and so it
31:45
Speaker 1: is it is a little bit like that. And you know,
31:47
Speaker 1: even though this is a win, we shouldn't have to
31:50
Speaker 1: be doing any of this just to get abortion care.
31:53
Speaker 1: Like nobody should have to jump through ridiculous hoops to
31:55
Speaker 1: get medical care that they need, and so this is
31:58
Speaker 1: no different. And so I think of this as a
32:00
Speaker 1: in but I just I have to keep harping on
32:02
Speaker 1: that that we shouldn't have to be fighting this way
32:06
Speaker 1: and like celebrating these sort of like incremental tooth and
32:09
Speaker 1: nail winds for something that like should just be a
32:11
Speaker 1: right that everybody should have. And these pill based abortions
32:17
Speaker 1: are actually pretty common, right, that's right. And so especially
32:21
Speaker 1: in the pandemic, the tele Abortion Project, which is a
32:24
Speaker 1: research program authorized by the FDA to conduct tele medicine
32:27
Speaker 1: appointments and male pills, has heard from many people and
32:31
Speaker 1: they're saying that they have really seen from folks using
32:34
Speaker 1: their services, that people are really stepping up the amount
32:37
Speaker 1: that they are seeking these kinds of services since the pandemic.
32:40
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Raymond. She said that of the two thousand and eighties,
32:44
Speaker 1: three abortions provided under the program between July and October one,
32:49
Speaker 1: more than a third seven and fifteen occurred during the pandemic,
32:52
Speaker 1: and that really mirrors what the CDC has found. The
32:55
Speaker 1: CDC found in in some states, including Indiana, Kansas, and Minnesota,
32:59
Speaker 1: that methodic pill based abortions accounted for the majority of
33:03
Speaker 1: abortions according to state health department records, and the CDC
33:06
Speaker 1: also found that sevent abortions occurred before the ten weeks
33:11
Speaker 1: gestation period, suggesting that there are many, many, many more
33:14
Speaker 1: people who would probably choose abortion pills over an in
33:17
Speaker 1: clinic procedure if they could. Another great resource, Abortion on Demand,
33:21
Speaker 1: which is an online platform that provides position supported medication.
33:24
Speaker 1: Abortion Care Online, said that they have seen a lot
33:26
Speaker 1: of growing interests in pill based abortions since the pandemic
33:29
Speaker 1: as well. And so it makes complete sense that at
33:33
Speaker 1: a time when it's like not safe to leave your house,
33:35
Speaker 1: that people would be turning to the internet to get
33:38
Speaker 1: the kind of care that they need, and even beyond abortion.
33:41
Speaker 1: You know, I when the pandemic started, actually very early
33:45
Speaker 1: into the pandemic, this is like a little bit embarrassing.
33:47
Speaker 1: I had a assist on my butt cheek and my
33:52
Speaker 1: doctor had switched to telemedicine only, and I remember thinking like, well,
33:56
Speaker 1: certainly she's not gonna want to like have me take
33:59
Speaker 1: down my pants and show her my butt cheek over
34:02
Speaker 1: you know, face time. And that's exactly what I did,
34:05
Speaker 1: and I probably get the care that I needed. And
34:07
Speaker 1: so obviously we should not be putting unfair barriers in
34:12
Speaker 1: place when I think that the pandemic really showed how
34:15
Speaker 1: important it is to use the technology that we have
34:18
Speaker 1: to access healthcare right. And I know there are stories
34:22
Speaker 1: you can find out. There are people who said, like
34:23
Speaker 1: why it was so important to them and why they
34:25
Speaker 1: wanted to be in like they're kind of you know,
34:27
Speaker 1: home or where they felt comfortable when they did this. Um.
34:30
Speaker 1: But also unfortunately a lot of times going to an
34:34
Speaker 1: abortion clinic can also not feel safe because there can
34:37
Speaker 1: be people protesting outside and that makes it a much
34:40
Speaker 1: more stressful experience. And and speaking of I'm sure, um,
34:48
Speaker 1: not everyone was happy about about this news. Oh, of
34:52
Speaker 1: course not so. Anti choice groups were not happy about
34:55
Speaker 1: this announcement. The Susan B. Anthony Foundation said, the Biden
34:58
Speaker 1: administration today moved to you can the long standing federal
35:01
Speaker 1: safety regulations against mail order abortion drugs designed to protect
35:05
Speaker 1: women from serious health risk and potential abuse. So here's
35:08
Speaker 1: my question about this. First of all, how and why
35:10
Speaker 1: would someone be abusing these abortion pills. It's not like
35:13
Speaker 1: they like take it from me. They do not get
35:15
Speaker 1: you high the side effects that you might have or
35:18
Speaker 1: like mild nausea. I don't really think that people are like, oh,
35:21
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get these drugs to induce mild nausea.
35:25
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a wild time. Can't wait to abuse them.
35:28
Speaker 1: So already have some questions there, and then doctors make
35:32
Speaker 1: it clear that pill based abortions are safe. A research
35:36
Speaker 1: program at the FDA found that of the one thousand,
35:40
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifties seven abortions that occurred through the
35:42
Speaker 1: program between September, we're completed without requiring any follow up procedure,
35:48
Speaker 1: patients made seventy visits to emergency rooms or urgent care centers,
35:52
Speaker 1: with ten instances of serious complications to study reported. And
35:55
Speaker 1: so that's really like pretty good in terms of you know,
35:59
Speaker 1: the safety of its, Like, doctors have made it very
36:01
Speaker 1: clear that pill based abortions are not unsafe, and telemedicine
36:05
Speaker 1: abortions are safe for all the reasons that you've just said,
36:08
Speaker 1: any they can be more convenient. Maybe you don't want
36:10
Speaker 1: to go to an abortion clinic where there's going to
36:12
Speaker 1: be people shouting at you when you're already stressed. Uh,
36:15
Speaker 1: maybe you have to work, or maybe you can't afford
36:17
Speaker 1: to get to a clinic, or like, there are so
36:19
Speaker 1: many reasons why someone would choose to, you know, access
36:23
Speaker 1: the care they need through telemedicine, and it's there's not
36:27
Speaker 1: really a lot of reasons why we are regulating it
36:30
Speaker 1: in this way. And one thing I also want to
36:31
Speaker 1: point out is that this change is obviously, like very
36:34
Speaker 1: long overdue, especially when you consider that out of the
36:37
Speaker 1: twenty different prescription medications currently regulated by the FDA, these
36:42
Speaker 1: abortion bills are the only one, the only one the
36:46
Speaker 1: f d A previously required to be dispensed in person
36:50
Speaker 1: but permitted patience to self administer. And so that really,
36:53
Speaker 1: I mean, like, of all of these medications, this like,
36:57
Speaker 1: why is this the only one that had this unfair
37:00
Speaker 1: burden to access? This is one of the only medications
37:03
Speaker 1: that are given to people with uteruses and those who
37:06
Speaker 1: need reproductive home Like essentially, this is why we know
37:11
Speaker 1: these answers, And I find that fascinating because as we're
37:15
Speaker 1: looking for the future, and of course, I think part
37:18
Speaker 1: of the reason and any and I are both like
37:20
Speaker 1: hesitant in celebrating because we are in Georgia run by
37:23
Speaker 1: current Governor Brian Kimp who has absolutely put into place
37:27
Speaker 1: every restriction that you can think of when it comes
37:29
Speaker 1: to accessing any kind of health care in general. And
37:33
Speaker 1: I say that very loudly, as he is threatening to
37:35
Speaker 1: shut down any connections with federal assistance when it comes
37:38
Speaker 1: to coverage in the state at this point in time.
37:41
Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that we are
37:43
Speaker 1: talking about and trying to be very loud about is
37:45
Speaker 1: that these groups are not focusing on the women. Obviously,
37:49
Speaker 1: it is a literal fight about what is moral in
37:52
Speaker 1: their eyes, and for a Bible belt area of such
37:56
Speaker 1: as Georgia, it is a constant battle trying to see
37:59
Speaker 1: how to combat uh, these really generalize slash false narratives
38:06
Speaker 1: of the harming women as if they're truly trying to
38:09
Speaker 1: save women. What is actually they're trying to prevent women
38:12
Speaker 1: to get good access and good health care at all.
38:17
Speaker 1: So it's kind of one of those moments of like
38:19
Speaker 1: how and I guess honestly the pandemic has shown a
38:23
Speaker 1: lot of light about the fact that when it comes
38:26
Speaker 1: to morality and conspiracies, they don't care if it's from science.
38:32
Speaker 1: They don't care about the truth, as we have learned,
38:38
Speaker 1: um and I find it interesting that as we are
38:42
Speaker 1: trying to focus on this, what what are some ways
38:44
Speaker 1: that we can maybe uh advocate for ourselves, for people
38:48
Speaker 1: like Annie and I who are stuck in Georgia right now,
38:51
Speaker 1: for more access to these things. Oh what a good question.
38:54
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I just have to honor
38:58
Speaker 1: what you just said, because we are at a time
39:01
Speaker 1: where it is scary and the threat is real. Anybody
39:05
Speaker 1: who told you like, oh, they're not gonna overturn row,
39:08
Speaker 1: like you'll be fine, Like we're not gonna go backward,
39:11
Speaker 1: they were incorrect. They were telling you something that wasn't true.
39:13
Speaker 1: And I I I'm sorry to have to say that,
39:17
Speaker 1: but here's here's the reality of where we are, and
39:20
Speaker 1: it's it's very real, and it's very scary, and I
39:23
Speaker 1: completely understand the urge to be like, well, this is happening.
39:28
Speaker 1: It's inevitable. Our rights are going to be rolled back.
39:31
Speaker 1: Women are going to die, people are going to die.
39:34
Speaker 1: This is going to be bad. Anybody who's feeling that
39:36
Speaker 1: that exhaustion and malaise, I'm with you, I get it.
39:41
Speaker 1: All I can say is that now is not the
39:43
Speaker 1: time to retreat. Now is the time to dig in.
39:46
Speaker 1: And so I have to really lift up and amplify
39:49
Speaker 1: all the amazing people who are doing the work on
39:52
Speaker 1: the ground of protecting abortion access. I want to shout
39:55
Speaker 1: out a few people right now. My colleague at Ultraviolet,
39:57
Speaker 1: Sonya Spoo, who is incredible. Um, my friend Renee, who
40:01
Speaker 1: is doing a lot of work around abortion storytelling and
40:03
Speaker 1: just like helping people understand how many different people are
40:06
Speaker 1: impacted by abortion care and need abortions, and like someone
40:10
Speaker 1: that you love has had an abortion. And then if
40:12
Speaker 1: you're looking like what can I do? Absolutely now is
40:16
Speaker 1: the time to be supporting abortion funds around the country.
40:18
Speaker 1: If you've got a local abortion fund in your in
40:21
Speaker 1: your community, throw them some money. If you've got some
40:23
Speaker 1: extra money, you can go to abortion Funds dot org
40:25
Speaker 1: and find out. You know, people are doing a lot
40:27
Speaker 1: of organizing of making sure that people can still get
40:30
Speaker 1: the access to care that they need. So definitely support
40:32
Speaker 1: those folks. Also urge your lawmaker to support the Women's
40:37
Speaker 1: Health Protection Act. You can go to we are Ultra
40:39
Speaker 1: violet dot org and find our petition demanding the Women's
40:42
Speaker 1: Health Protection Act be passed because we need Now is
40:46
Speaker 1: the time that we need to be fighting with all
40:48
Speaker 1: that we've got. I know it is scary, I know
40:50
Speaker 1: it is hard. I know we've all been through a lot,
40:52
Speaker 1: but now is the time to really dig in. And
40:56
Speaker 1: I think, like, like, one of the things that really
40:58
Speaker 1: gives me hope in this fight are things like abortion
41:01
Speaker 1: care networks, are things like this, individuals doing what they can,
41:05
Speaker 1: and so I know that we got us are The
41:07
Speaker 1: government might always not always have our back, our left
41:10
Speaker 1: that officials might not always have our back, but we
41:12
Speaker 1: have our own backs. And so this spite is hard
41:14
Speaker 1: and long, but I know I know that we got
41:17
Speaker 1: we got each other, and so that's the one thing
41:19
Speaker 1: that really gives me hope. So Will said, I think
41:23
Speaker 1: I needed it, because yes, I've been very stress, we
41:26
Speaker 1: all are very concerned and worried. But that was a
41:31
Speaker 1: nice a nice bow on this our last recording with you,
41:36
Speaker 1: Bridge and some excellent advice as always hanging there, Yes,
41:42
Speaker 1: hanging there, we can do this. We can do this.
41:51
Speaker 1: Low key there. That's that's what I call you, Samantha
41:56
Speaker 1: LOKEI very loy. Yes, yes, well, thank you as always
42:04
Speaker 1: Bridget for joining us, um and bringing this topic. It
42:07
Speaker 1: is always such a delight to have you have fun.
42:11
Speaker 1: You're about to leave for your your weirdo Christmas. Correct,
42:14
Speaker 1: that's right. In a matter of hours, I will be
42:16
Speaker 1: wearing a fur hat like probably pretty drunk in the wood.
42:24
Speaker 1: It's important in this whole conversation. Yes, yes, have a
42:30
Speaker 1: lovely time. Um. Where can the listeners find you? Well,
42:33
Speaker 1: you can find me all over the web. I'm at
42:35
Speaker 1: Bridget Marie on Twitter and at Bridget Marie in DC
42:38
Speaker 1: on Instagram. Please follow me. I'm trying to get my
42:40
Speaker 1: followers up, hope, please follow and you can follow me
42:44
Speaker 1: on my I Heart Radio podcast. There are no girls
42:46
Speaker 1: on the internet where we have all kinds of interesting
42:49
Speaker 1: conversations about culture and technology and gender and race and
42:53
Speaker 1: the internet. So please please check it out. Yes, go
42:56
Speaker 1: check it out. It is fantastic And as always, if
43:00
Speaker 1: you want to contact us, you can our emails Steffan
43:02
Speaker 1: your mom stuff I heart me dot com. You can
43:04
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or an
43:06
Speaker 1: Instagram and Stuff I never told you. Thanks as always
43:07
Speaker 1: start super producer Christina, thank you and thanks you for
43:10
Speaker 1: listening stuff whenever told you his production by Heart Radio
43:13
Speaker 1: podcast on My Heart Radio is the Day I Hear Radio,
43:15
Speaker 1: app Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite ships.