Latest / Pretty In Pink Again / Episode 81: Are We in Our Selfish Era? The Mom Guilt, Mental Load & Why We’re Done Putting Ourselves Last

Transcript

Episode 81: Are We in Our Selfish Era? The Mom Guilt, Mental Load & Why We’re Done Putting Ourselves Last · Pretty In Pink Again

• 0:00
  I'm Christina.
• 0:01
  And I'm Teef.
• 0:01
  And this is the Pretty in Pink Again podcast.
• 0:03
  Where motherhood meets rediscovery.
• 0:16
  Hello.
• 0:17
  Welcome home.
• 0:18
  I know.
• 0:19
  How was it?
• 0:19
  I'm, like, a week behind always, so I've been back.
• 0:22
  Yeah.
• 0:23
  'Cause I feel like the timeline gets confusing for people.
• 0:24
  How was it?
• 0:25
  It was so great.
• 0:26
  Yeah.
• 0:26
  Everyone, I'm talking about, our Ireland trip.
• 0:29
  Yeah.
• 0:29
  That was our first international trip with the two kiddos, and they did pretty well, I have to say.
• 0:36
  Everybody said in my DMs, they were like,"Kids are resilient.
• 0:40
  I promise.
• 0:41
  You're, like, overthinking it too much," and it's true.
• 0:44
  They, they did well.
• 0:45
  They did great.
• 0:46
  They did well.
• 0:46
  It was not perfect at all.
• 0:48
  Like, I'm not gonna- Nobody's looking for perfection.
• 0:49
  No, it was, there was absolutely chaotic moments, but- I was just looking for proof of life.
• 0:55
  I know.
• 0:55
  You ke- you kept texting me, and I'm like,"I'm sorry, I'm also five hours ahead, so," I was so- But I was so excited to see, Yeah the kids, the travel pictures.
• 1:03
  It was so fu- yeah, we had a really great time.
• 1:05
  We were there for a family wedding, so that also helped a lot.
• 1:09
  Sure.
• 1:09
  I feel like that's the way- Did all of Rajen's family go to this wedding?
• 1:12
  A lot of Rajen's family- Wow s- a l- a few of his siblings went, and then their kids.
• 1:16
  And so I think that's now the secret sauce, is, like, being with other family- Mm-hmm with kids.
• 1:22
  Yes.
• 1:23
  Because it actually was so nice to be able to have the kids have other kids to play with- Mm-hmm number one.
• 1:29
  But then also, I feel like when Rajen and I travel alone, when it's just, like, us with the kids, we barely even talk.
• 1:35
  I feel like we're just in kid mode.
• 1:38
  What do they need?
• 1:39
  What are we doing?
• 1:40
  Like, everybody's needs, which is kind of like what we're gonna talk about today in today's episode.
• 1:45
  But then I feel like when we were there with other people, the kids were talking, and then we all got to talk.
• 1:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:50
  So we were having, like, adult conversations and our- Yeah, the kids go with the kids.
• 1:54
  Yes, yes.
• 1:54
  There's always an older kid- Yes that sparks their interest and takes them under their wing.
• 1:59
  Yes.
• 1:59
  And they're always better for others or in the company of others.
• 2:03
  Yeah.
• 2:03
  So we were like,"Maybe that's how we'll do the travel now," is like- Yeah with family or with other friends with kids.
• 2:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:08
  Or like, then you feel like you get a little of everything, the flight was good?
• 2:12
  Yeah.
• 2:12
  The overnight flight was good?
• 2:13
  Oh, the overnight flight was interesting, because from Hartford to Dublin is very quick.
• 2:21
  It's like a four and a half, five-hour flight.
• 2:23
  That's, that's, like, closer than going to, like, California.
• 2:25
  Yes, and so there wasn't even enough time for the kids to actually get a full night's sleep.
• 2:30
  So they did sleep, but they probably slept for, like, three, four hours.
• 2:34
  And so, like, they were- It was like a nap exhausted.
• 2:36
  Yes, it was a nap.
• 2:37
  So they were exhausted.
• 2:39
  But yeah, we made it work.
• 2:41
  I'm very proud- That's awesome of us.
• 2:42
  I really am.
• 2:42
  I'm proud of you too.
• 2:43
  Yeah.
• 2:43
  We're going in December to Dublin.
• 2:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:46
  I'm really excited.
• 2:47
  I- But I didn't realize that the flight- It's really short is very short.
• 2:49
  On the way home, when it's in the middle of the day, it's seven hours long.
• 2:53
  But on the way there, it is so quick.
• 2:54
  Like, I feel like you blink, and it feels like you're going to Florida.
• 2:57
  It's like, what?
• 2:58
  But it's the jet stream.
• 2:59
  Oh.
• 3:00
  So it just, like, takes it, like- Okay.
• 3:02
  All right.
• 3:03
  Good to know.
• 3:03
  Yeah.
• 3:04
  That's exciting.
• 3:05
  Good.
• 3:06
  But- Okay.
• 3:07
  There's something that I want to eliminate from my vocabulary- Oh, tell me when I talk to the girls.
• 3:12
  Okay.
• 3:13
  And the boys.
• 3:13
  I don't wanna say to them- you're being so selfish right now.
• 3:17
  Mm.
• 3:17
  You're being so selfish right now.
• 3:19
  Because I wanna find another, word- to describe them doing something that only suits themselves.
• 3:26
  And maybe it's just the girls, because I feel a lot of times in our life, you go through all these phases of your life trying to accommodate others, and then you forget how to accommodate yourself.
• 3:36
  Yourself, yeah.
• 3:37
  And you're, like, maybe people pleasing or, looking to, what is the path of least resistance?
• 3:42
  And then you enter in motherhood where your actual job is to make the lives of those around you easier, and then you really forget how to take care of yourself and how to be selfish.
• 3:53
  And not in a bad way, in a good way.
• 3:55
  The word selfish has such a negative connotation- Right but it might not be always the worst thing.
• 4:01
  But so maybe it's, maybe I just haven't found the right word yet.
• 4:04
  Yeah.
• 4:04
  Maybe it's, self-preservation or maybe it's self-suit- suiting or something else.
• 4:10
  But I wanna sometimes find different, words to describe, it's okay to do something for yourself- as long as in the grand scheme of things, like, how to be a kind person, how to jump in and help out, how to be a team player for our family.
• 4:26
  Yep.
• 4:26
  But it is okay from time to time to do something just for yourself.
• 4:31
  And not make it so negative.
• 4:33
  I think at what point did being a good mom, wife, friend, or employee start to mean, though, that everybody else's needs come before your own?
• 4:45
  I think that- Or is motherhood the answer to that?
• 4:48
  Well, I think that when you're conditioned to help others out- Mm-hmm that's like teamwork, right?
• 4:55
  Everybody's pitching in.
• 4:56
  But sometimes when you're a mom, n- it's not necessarily a team.
• 5:00
  It's you're the one doing all the things- Mm-hmm to help everybody out.
• 5:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:03
  Everybody else is on the receiving end.
• 5:05
  So I think that women, especially, like, in the workplace, in the home environment, get this bad rap of,"I'm just the giver." You know?
• 5:14
  But I also think that then you go through life, especially motherhood, thinking that that's the expectation, and that you're a bad mom if you do choose to put yourself first for any reason.
• 5:26
  Like, there's mom guilt associated with that.
• 5:28
  Right.
• 5:28
  So it's twofer.
• 5:30
  Right.
• 5:30
  You know?
• 5:30
  No, I agree.
• 5:31
  Like, if you don't sign up to be the room mom- Right you're a bad mom, you know, and then you feel guilty.
• 5:37
  Maybe you just don't want to be, right.
• 5:39
  Or maybe you wanna choose something else in your day to work on, or maybe you're better at working on something else in your day.
• 5:45
  Right.
• 5:45
  Or if somebody asks you to drive their kids somewhere and you say no because it just doesn't work into the plan, but then you end up putting your kids out- To accommodate somebody else.
• 5:55
  And I'm not talking about one-offs,'cause we all have to pitch in as friends, as family, as community.
• 6:02
  Sometimes you do have to put yourself out.
• 6:04
  Yes.
• 6:04
  But I'm talking, like, when it becomes the habit to constantly put yourself last, and then it starts to affect you and then everybody else that's...
• 6:13
  The trickle-down effect.
• 6:14
  And I think that a lot of us end up in that place at some point in our lives, and then something has switched now.
• 6:20
  Yeah.
• 6:21
  Maybe it's age, maybe it's just a little bit more confidence, but I think that we're trying to enter this more selfish era.
• 6:28
  Yeah, but like- In a, in a good way in a good way.
• 6:30
  In a good way.
• 6:30
  Right, use it as a good way.
• 6:31
  So we wanted to have, like, a very candid conversation about the guilt that women feel when they say no, when they spend money on themselves, Or if they need something that doesn't benefit everybody else.
• 6:43
  So we thought that this was just, like, a really interesting topic to kind of go back and forth on.
• 6:49
  I agree.
• 6:49
  And I wanna start with asking you, what do you think is the most ridiculous thing that you've ever felt guilty about?
• 6:58
  Just saying no to a plan, not because I have another plan, but because my plan was just to be alone.
• 7:07
  So do you mean to friends, to- To anybody to, to anybody.
• 7:10
  To anybody.
• 7:11
  To my husband- Yeah to my parents, to friends.
• 7:14
  Just like,"No." You...
• 7:16
  And there's no reason.
• 7:17
  There's- Well, the reason is- The reason is,'cause...
• 7:19
  Right I just wanna not go.
• 7:21
  You want the time.
• 7:22
  I just want the time.
• 7:23
  Right.
• 7:23
  I think time is the most valuable part- There's no conflict like, valuable piece of- There's no like- There's no conflict.
• 7:28
  Right.
• 7:28
  Like, it's not a no because I- I'm doing something else I have another plan- Right or a no'cause I have an appointment or no, because I'm working.
• 7:35
  It's like- Right no, because I have free time, and I- Right just want that time.
• 7:39
  And I think that I sometimes feel bad when I'm selfish about pockets- Your- of time that aren't- taken up.
• 7:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:46
  And I just want that time to myself.
• 7:49
  So you just wanna be able to say no with like, no explanation needed.
• 7:53
  Do you find yourself always giving an explanation?
• 7:55
  Like, do you feel like you're like- Every single time"No, because ba, ba, ba, ba." Like- Yeah.
• 7:58
  And I, I think the more I explain, the more it c- borders a lie.
• 8:03
  You know?
• 8:03
  Right.
• 8:03
  But like,"Do you have anything going on today?""No, not really.""Do you wanna meet for lunch?""Also, no, not really." Right.
• 8:09
  "I just wanna be home today." And then I can, really, I could go on to like, a tangent.
• 8:14
  Like, I have laundry to do.
• 8:15
  I have chores to do.
• 8:16
  I have this to do.
• 8:17
  Like, I have that to do every day.
• 8:18
  Everybody has that to do- Right every day.
• 8:20
  Right.
• 8:20
  I'm not special, but for me, personally, I feel like I can be very selfish with just my like, pockets of alone time that I don't wanna share.
• 8:30
  But you feel like you can ac- You feel like you do that without guilt?
• 8:34
  No, I still feel kind of stupid and guilty about it.
• 8:37
  Mm.
• 8:37
  You know?
• 8:37
  So you're still giving yourself a hard time- A little bit if you say no- Yeah for that reason.
• 8:41
  For that one in particular.
• 8:42
  Interesting.
• 8:43
  Yes.
• 8:43
  It's easier when there's a reason.
• 8:45
  You know?
• 8:45
  Like- Mm can you drive my son to practice, because I have to drive my other three kids to practice.
• 8:52
  Can you drive my son to practice so I can just stay home by myself?
• 8:55
  Right, right.
• 8:56
  Like, okay, I would feel very guilty- about that, but sometimes.
• 9:00
  Yep.
• 9:01
  What about you?
• 9:02
  I would say the thing that I'm constantly feeling guilty over, and I have not solved this, is that when I have childcare, right?
• 9:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:12
  Like, I have a lot of guilt around childcare.
• 9:15
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:16
  And if I decide to use an hour of that childcare for things that benefit me only, I have a hard time with that.
• 9:26
  So I feel like my childcare time should be for work, for doing stuff for bettering the family because I'm paying for that childcare, but if I decide to use that childcare for, like, Pilates or to go get a matcha or to, like, meet a girlfriend for lunch, I have, like, insane guilt over that, and I can't shake it sometimes.
• 9:47
  I'm trying to find ways to just be like,"It's my time, and it's okay," but I've never been able to shake that.
• 9:55
  Has anybody ever said to you- No so this is just put- No one has ever said anything So this is just you- No purely put, it's self-inflicted.
• 10:02
  No one has said anything of that sort at all.
• 10:05
  I also think that I had said I'm exercising out of the house now.
• 10:09
  I had a lot, like, there was a lot of problem with that at the beginning for me.
• 10:13
  Like, I was like,"No, I don't wanna have to use my time.
• 10:16
  I don't wanna u-", and I'm like,"But it's my time.
• 10:18
  Like, this is to benefit me," you know?
• 10:20
  And I don't know why.
• 10:21
  It just, it's still something that just, like, eats away at me.
• 10:24
  I don't know why.
• 10:25
  Yeah.
• 10:26
  I hear you.
• 10:26
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:26
  I think that that's a very common one- Mm-hmm with women.
• 10:29
  And I think both of us the alone time just benefits really me.
• 10:33
  I mean, sometimes- Yes I do things for the family in my alone time, but, like, it's really, like, my time.
• 10:38
  Like, I feel like if I have the childcare because I'm working, right?
• 10:42
  That's a, an excuse that would be acceptable.
• 10:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:46
  Do you know what I'm saying?
• 10:47
  Like, it's like,"Oh, my kids are with our nanny because I'm at work." But I feel like when I'm out to lunch with a friend or if I'm at a workout, it just doesn't seem acceptable.
• 10:59
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:59
  But it is.
• 11:00
  It is acceptable, and I celebrate those things- Yeah for you.
• 11:03
  Yeah.
• 11:03
  And for all of my friends- Yes actually.
• 11:05
  For- And for all of you Pippas listening for anybody- I know I celebrate anytime I see anybody out and has been able to afford the childcare and be able to afford the time.
• 11:14
  Right.
• 11:15
  Go for it.
• 11:16
  Right.
• 11:16
  Take it.
• 11:17
  I think that it's not necessarily about, for me, it's not guilt about enjoying myself or, like, doing something for myself, but I've been accustomed to having to account for the time.
• 11:29
  So I feel guilty if it's for something for me.
• 11:31
  If that makes sense.
• 11:32
  Right.
• 11:32
  But again, this is completely self-inflicted, Like I listen to other people's language.
• 11:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 11:37
  And if I hear people use words like,"Oh, I snuck out after work for this," or,"I, snuck in an exercise class"- Yeah or,"I, like, snuck out to get my hair done," it almost seems as though the message is like you're doing something wrong.
• 11:51
  Yes.
• 11:51
  And my mother is somebody that modeled taking care of yourself.
• 11:56
  Mm.
• 11:56
  Always.
• 11:56
  She still does to this day.
• 11:58
  But I still to this day hear her use the language like,"Oh, I'm sneaking out for a Pilates class," even though she has an hour break sometimes- in her day.
• 12:06
  Right.
• 12:06
  She shouldn't be sneaking anywhere.
• 12:08
  Right.
• 12:08
  It should just be,"I'm proudly going." But the language used for women is,"Oh, I'm sneaking out to get my hair done"- Yep or,"I'm sneaking out for a facial"- We're all guilty of it or,"I'm sneaking out for this"- Mm-hmm or ba, ba, ba, ba.
• 12:18
  Yeah.
• 12:18
  I snuck in.
• 12:19
  You're like,"I snuck it in." Yep.
• 12:21
  Yep.
• 12:21
  Wow.
• 12:22
  I think that if the language wasn't so sneaky- none of us would think it has to be sneaky.
• 12:27
  Yes.
• 12:27
  Right.
• 12:27
  So then if you're sneaking to do these things, of course you're gonna feel bad for paying for the sitter- You feel wrong while you're doing it.
• 12:33
  Right.
• 12:33
  It's so true.
• 12:34
  You know?
• 12:35
  Yep, it's so true.
• 12:36
  When have you ever proudly heard of somebody saying that they were resting?
• 12:41
  No, you can't.
• 12:42
  I feel like- I even get shamed for being able to have a good night's sleep.
• 12:44
  Right.
• 12:45
  It is-- It's interesting that you said the language, because it really is all about the language and how we phrase things as women- as mothers.
• 12:56
  As you said that, I'm thinking through all of these things, and I would feel ashamed to say if I felt rested, you know?
• 13:04
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:04
  Like, and if you think about, like, the mental load, that invisible job of being the one to do all of the remembering all of the time and all of the things like, you should never feel guilty for resting, right.
• 13:19
  But we don't, but we all do.
• 13:21
  I think it's just, like, the language in which it's given to you.
• 13:25
  Right.
• 13:26
  Or the language in which you hear.
• 13:28
  I think that what I've realized is that sometimes the tasks are not what exhausts me.
• 13:38
  It's like the what's next- Yes and then what's coming next, and then the this, and then the that, and then the sharing of the tasks to my family members to clue them in.
• 13:46
  Like, every Tuesday we have the same schedule, and every Tuesday, the people in my family ask what are we doing?" Yeah.
• 13:53
  "What's the schedule?" You, you're the keeper of all the information.
• 13:55
  How do I not no longer become the...
• 13:57
  How do I become the sharer of the information without being, like, rude?
• 14:02
  Is- Or is it just my job to be the keeper of information?
• 14:04
  Like, when do I have to just, like, become okay with, all right, this is your job that they're gonna ask you every Tuesday 17,000 times, and that's just your job, and you have to be okay with it.
• 14:13
  Don't get annoyed by it.
• 14:14
  Like, this is just the job.
• 14:17
  But then I also then can couple that with, okay, well, maybe that's why you wanna rest in the middle of your day.
• 14:23
  Yes.
• 14:24
  I know.
• 14:25
  I feel the same way, my kids are two and four.
• 14:29
  I still feel like I'm needed for, like, every single physical thing right now.
• 14:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:34
  And in addition to that, like, being the person that physically has to do everything.
• 14:40
  It's anticipating everything and, like, what do I think they're going to need?
• 14:44
  All of the, like, invisible things that I'm remembering, and I find that when I'm with them all day, like, I am burnt out like I've never been.
• 14:54
  And I don't know if that changes as they get older because it's a little less physical, but it seems like it's still so much mental, right?
• 15:04
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:04
  And probably even more so mental, and that is just the part that burns me out.
• 15:09
  So feeling like I need downtime or rest time because of that, I still feel guilty for.
• 15:17
  Do you think that if you said to them, like,"I'm gonna go sit down right now, and I'm gonna give you a chance to, like, try this on your own," would you feel guilty for that too?
• 15:28
  Yes,'cause I literally- Like, taking a break in front of them?
• 15:29
  Yes,'cause I literally feel like I am supposed to be on all the time.
• 15:34
  And I feel like the only downtime I should be able to get is when everybody is fed, bathed, in bed, and that's the time that I deserve for that rest.
• 15:49
  I feel like trying or attempting to do that in the middle of the day, A, would probably not be possible because I feel like as soon as my ass would s- hit the couch, I would be needed for something else.
• 16:02
  But I also feel like there's a guilt component of that too.
• 16:04
  I would feel, like, weird even attempting to rest in front of everybody.
• 16:10
  Could you imagine?
• 16:11
  If I, like, laid down and take a nap, the kids would be like,"Mom's ill." Yes.
• 16:15
  She's, like, actually sick.
• 16:16
  Right.
• 16:16
  Call 911.
• 16:18
  So...
• 16:20
  Wait, somebody's here.
• 16:23
  I hear footsteps.
• 16:24
  Nick?
• 16:25
  Oh, yeah, Nick's home.
• 16:26
  Okay.
• 16:27
  Let me shut the door.
• 16:28
  He came home yesterday from work- Mm-hmm early.
• 16:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:29
  Or the other day.
• 16:30
  Yeah.
• 16:30
  And I should've been like,"It's so great to see you.
• 16:33
  I'm so happy to see you,"'cause I knew he was coming home early.
• 16:36
  Yeah.
• 16:36
  But instead I was like- What are you doing here?
• 16:39
  "What are you doing here?" And he's like,"Do you wanna go out to lunch?" I'm like,"Not really." But I went out to lunch.
• 16:45
  We had a nice time.
• 16:46
  Good.
• 16:46
  But we were sitting at lunch, and I was like,"I am such a curmudgeon." Like- I told him I didn't even wanna talk right now.
• 16:52
  I was like,"I just wanna eat my soup in silence." Oh.
• 16:53
  Like, could you imagine if you and I went out to lunch and I said that to you?
• 16:57
  I know, but we probably would be like,"I get it." You know what I mean?
• 17:00
  Yeah, I know.
• 17:00
  I know.
• 17:01
  But, like, that's what I mean about being selfish.
• 17:03
  I know.
• 17:04
  You know?
• 17:04
  I know.
• 17:05
  Like, you want me Suzy Sunshine, and, like, you wanna come home to a clean house and cute kids and, like, dinner made.
• 17:10
  Like, I don't wanna go out for lunch.
• 17:12
  Yeah.
• 17:12
  I wanna sit home and decompress for an hour to reserve my energy tank.
• 17:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:18
  So, okay, maybe we've gone too far.
• 17:20
  Maybe we need to talk about what we think the difference between, like, truly being, like, a selfish son of a B and, like- maybe just, like, a little self-preservation.
• 17:30
  Ooh.
• 17:30
  Like, what maybe the difference is, because maybe we're just using the wrong language.
• 17:33
  I- Or maybe I'm using the wrong language.
• 17:35
  No, I think that's a really good question.
• 17:37
  I think most of what we're talking about really is self-preservation.
• 17:41
  Totally.
• 17:41
  And we're calling it being selfish.
• 17:44
  Or f- or we're feeling like it's being selfish.
• 17:47
  I guess for me, being in my selfish era, doesn't mean that I get to do what I wanna do every single time.
• 17:58
  I think that maybe I will try to make things work for myself most of the time, and then also take into account what the other people in my family- want to do.
• 18:11
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:12
  But I'm not running around accommodating every single person.
• 18:17
  Maybe that means the kids have to learn how to wait.
• 18:19
  Maybe the kids have to learn how to do some of the things that mom has to do.
• 18:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:23
  Maybe with that give and take, I have to just be okay with being the holder of the information and the scheduler.
• 18:30
  Maybe I have to be the one that's like,"Okay, in this era of my life, I have to be the one that picks out the dress clothes and makes sure that they have the shoes and the socks and the..." Right now, I do have to do all of this extra stuff.
• 18:43
  But then with all of that extra stuff that I have to do, I get to say no when somebody wants to go to lunch.
• 18:50
  Yes.
• 18:50
  I think that we were talking about this, like, off-air before, and we were also saying that we think we should do a whole other episode about this, is that you almost have to let go of having everything be so comfortable all the time.
• 19:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 19:07
  You have to be comfortable with letting other things be uncomfortable.
• 19:12
  So that could be other things for you, it could be other things for your family members.
• 19:16
  Yeah.
• 19:17
  But I feel like as women and as mothers, we feel this, like, innate pressure to make everybody else comfortable, and if you're not making everybody else comfortable, your job isn't done.
• 19:29
  Oh my God, yeah.
• 19:30
  Well said.
• 19:31
  Well then your job will quite literally never be done Never be done.
• 19:35
  And that's actually when we were talking about that in Lift and playing with that phrase, that's not your job.
• 19:42
  Mm.
• 19:42
  That's not our job as mothers.
• 19:45
  It's not your job as a partner.
• 19:46
  It's not your job to make everybody else comfortable.
• 19:50
  I struggle with that because I think that it is my job to, like, make it nice.
• 19:53
  I 100% think that it is my- Like, I do think that- Especially with my kids part of, part of being a mom and a wife, and also just, like, a lover of life, is making things nice.
• 20:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:02
  I don't wanna make things hard for my kids because I'm lazy and I don't wanna do it, or maybe lazy's not even the bad word, but, like, I also don't wanna, like, go above and beyond so they just show up every time like a magician was here.
• 20:15
  I feel like there's gotta be some middle ground.
• 20:17
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:18
  And what lives in there is being uncomfortable.
• 20:22
  Right.
• 20:23
  Right.
• 20:23
  Like- Like, we have family photos today.
• 20:26
  Everybody's outfits are already picked out, ironed, and on their beds.
• 20:30
  Do you wanna know where mine is?
• 20:32
  Probably I, uh, on the bottom of my closet floor.
• 20:35
  You know, like, I'll always be, like, the last one- Yep to have everything ready.
• 20:39
  Yep.
• 20:39
  You know?
• 20:40
  Like- Yep I just feel like we always do everything last, and then I'm the one that's gonna be pissed off- Right when- Right we get to the photos because I'm gonna be the one that...
• 20:49
  everybody's gonna be loaded in the car ready to go, and I'm gonna be still- And you're steaming, you're steaming your dress and, yeah, getting all the details together.
• 20:55
  Do you think, though, that if you were to have worried about your outfit first, what would that have done for the situation?
• 21:03
  Well, nothing.
• 21:04
  It would just, the boys would show up in sweatpants, and I'd be shouting at them like- So do you think-"You, you are not ready." But do you think that by you not getting yourself ready first or get, picking out your clothes for the family photos first and having yourself set, does that take away from everybody else's time?
• 21:23
  M- maybe.
• 21:24
  I think I'm just conditioned to- Right do everybody else's first.
• 21:26
  Right.
• 21:27
  I think that's what it is.
• 21:28
  Right.
• 21:28
  I'm just conditioned to, okay, like when I'm making dinner at nighttime- Mm-hmm I'm just conditioned to making the kids' stuff- Yeah first, and then me- And then la- and Nick pick on whatever.
• 21:37
  Yeah, yeah.
• 21:37
  Or I'm- Yeah conditioned to, all right, their stuff is always more important, so ours just gets- Right you know- Right thrown to the wayside.
• 21:45
  How can we make that change, though?
• 21:47
  Or- Or would there even be a benefit to that?
• 21:50
  Yeah.
• 21:51
  I mean, I don't think the, I think you have to make a change if you're like really struggling- Mm-hmm with things like when you do have pockets of time that you can use that don't benefit your kids, or other people, and then you start to use it for them- Mm-hmm even when they don't really even need the time, I think when you're selfish, you kind of act like other people don't matter.
• 22:12
  And I think that is the antithesis of what mothers are, because mothers act like everybody matters so much.
• 22:19
  So of course a mother's not being selfish, right?
• 22:22
  I think that self-preservation is remembering that, like, you matter, too.
• 22:26
  You know?
• 22:26
  So maybe, maybe I've, like, misinterpreted, or maybe mothers in general have, like, misinterpreted what it is to be selfish.
• 22:34
  Right.
• 22:34
  And to your point, you really can't be selfish if you're worrying about everybody else, which of course you are as a mom.
• 22:41
  Right.
• 22:41
  So I guess the whole conversation has to be in this self-preservation light, right?
• 22:49
  Where a lot of the things that we're trying to accomplish are for self-preservation.
• 22:54
  I think that now that we've entered our selfish era, we're going to have to get comfortable with feeling guilty, which is uncomfortable.
• 23:06
  Yes.
• 23:07
  Which is, that's, uh, exactly how I have felt.
• 23:09
  I have felt this year, turning 40, and the fact that my youngest will be three soon.
• 23:16
  I feel like now is the time I have to start putting myself into the equation.
• 23:22
  You know what I mean?
• 23:23
  And it is to be a better mother.
• 23:25
  It's to fill my cup.
• 23:26
  I know I need, I needed to put exercise, although, like, I ha- always say that that's something that I push down on my priority list, I'm like,"I have to be fit and healthy and strong for my kids." Like, to keep up with my kids so that I'm not exhausted, so that I'm strong enough to lift both of them as they're getting bigger.
• 23:48
  And I know that I'll feel better about myself, so it's not just because I wanna look a certain way.
• 23:54
  It's so that I feel like a good version of myself, you know?
• 23:58
  And I feel like that with, like, a bunch of things in my life.
• 24:01
  Like, the saying of, like, you have to put the, the mask on before you can help others I really do believe that.
• 24:08
  You really do have to put yourself into the equation.
• 24:11
  Probably not first, but you can't put yourself last and then show up as a good partner, as a good mother, as a good, we always use the word, like, sturdy leader.
• 24:21
  You can't possibly do that without putting yourself somewhat in the equation.
• 24:27
  I like how you said just in the equation in general.
• 24:29
  Yes.
• 24:29
  Because- Because you don't have to put yourself first, and like we, like we're saying, you're not going to put yourself first, because as a mother, you're just not.
• 24:37
  But you have to put yourself into the equation.
• 24:41
  What are some examples or what are some ways that you can?
• 24:44
  What are some tips that we can get to even stick into the equation?
• 24:47
  I think, like, yours about even working out in the morning- Yeah is a great example of how to put yourself into the equation.
• 24:54
  What about, like, meals?
• 24:55
  Like, when you're making meals for your family, what if you just made the meal that you wanted to eat?
• 24:59
  Yeah.
• 24:59
  Could you imagine?
• 25:00
  Like,"We're having salmon for dinner tonight because that's what mom and dad want to eat for dinner." Mm-hmm.
• 25:03
  You know?
• 25:04
  Yeah.
• 25:04
  Or, like, simple things like that.
• 25:05
  I think I'm conditioning my kids to think that, like, their opinion is more important than mine at times, and s- and I think that, I'm like,"Oh, it's just easier to make what they'll have.
• 25:16
  They'll eat it.
• 25:17
  It'll all be good." You know?
• 25:18
  How can you put yourself into the equation so you don't feel like you are being, like, a selfish, person?
• 25:25
  Well, I feel like you had kind of said it at the beginning of this episode when you said,"Don't over-explain your no." Like, I feel like that could help.
• 25:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:36
  Right?
• 25:37
  So if the answer is no, for whatever the reason, and you are choosing yourself for the no Not feeling like you have to do an extremely long defense, you know- Right for that.
• 25:50
  I think that's the place to start.
• 25:52
  Yeah.
• 25:52
  'Cause I liked that you said that, and I totally agree with that.
• 25:56
  But then I feel like then there's actual ways,'cause that's just giving yourself a little bit of time.
• 26:01
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:01
  But then what about other small ways to practice choosing yourself, like- Well, I don't think you need, like, a dramatic life overhaul.
• 26:07
  Like sometimes- Right when me and Nick get, our minds on something with the kids- Mm it's, like, a whole big- Yeah thing.
• 26:12
  Like, I don't think it needs to be that.
• 26:13
  It could just be like you have an hour on Tuesdays of protected time that you, like, made an appointment, and you're, intentional about it.
• 26:20
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:20
  Like, like if you have little kids.
• 26:21
  Like, I'm gonna be okay with getting help with my children, so I'm not going to be, working or being, productive.
• 26:28
  It's gonna be protective time.
• 26:29
  Right.
• 26:29
  And whatever would suit you during that protected time.
• 26:32
  I think some of it is just, like, very simple acts like, pick a restaurant that you wanna go to.
• 26:41
  Make time to take the walk.
• 26:43
  I always feel like sometimes it's as simple as that.
• 26:46
  Like, when I go for a walk, I feel like I chose myself.
• 26:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:50
  You know what I mean?
• 26:50
  It's, like, such a simple thing.
• 26:51
  I'll, put on a podcast, feel like I'm, doing a couple of things at once.
• 26:56
  I just always feel so much better.
• 26:57
  I feel like actually booking the appointment that you wanna go to, like, just actually doing it.
• 27:03
  I think another thing is you always have to keep room for flexibility.
• 27:07
  Things are not gonna go your way- Mm 100% of the time.
• 27:10
  But if you start to see you getting your way some of the time, the percentage will, like, outweigh the times when it doesn't.
• 27:17
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:17
  'Cause I feel like in that need, like, the pendulum needs to swing in the other direction.
• 27:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:21
  Like, if 70% of the time- Yeah you are kind of getting what you want, like, I'll deal with other 30.
• 27:27
  Like, that's, those are great odds.
• 27:29
  Yeah.
• 27:29
  I'll take those odds any day.
• 27:30
  Yeah.
• 27:30
  Yeah.
• 27:30
  But I wouldn't want it the other way, where I'm only getting kinda my way, like, a quarter of the time, you know?
• 27:37
  Yeah.
• 27:37
  And I feel like that's where a lot of us live.
• 27:41
  We keep talking about, the language we use for ourselves, like sometimes I'll be like,"Well, what if somebody was coming to me and saying these things?
• 27:49
  What would I say to them?" I would say,"You should absolutely not feel guilty about going to that workout class or, like, going to get your nails done or doing something for yourself." Like, I would actually say that to a friend, and so why wouldn't I say that to myself?
• 28:06
  Right.
• 28:06
  You know?
• 28:06
  And then I also think that the other way to look at that, like going back to the, the language that we're always using, is that, like notice what happens when you don't recharge.
• 28:17
  I notice when I don't recharge, I feel like such a bad version of myself, and that affects everybody else.
• 28:25
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:25
  You know?
• 28:26
  I think another thing that we can do is be careful of the language that we use to other people.
• 28:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:31
  Like for instance, if you meet somebody or you know somebody and you say like,"I don't have time for that"- Right well, maybe what you mean is you haven't figured out how to make time for it, but maybe the person that you're talking to is trying to make time for themselves.
• 28:46
  So if you hear language like that being used, like,"I don't have time.
• 28:50
  I don't have time," then it can almost kinda make other people feel bad- Yes when they make time for it.
• 28:55
  Yes.
• 28:56
  Right.
• 28:56
  You know?
• 28:56
  Oh, 100%.
• 28:57
  And we all have different- That's happened to me a million times we all have different, we all have different- Yep time.
• 29:00
  We all have different priorities.
• 29:02
  Right.
• 29:02
  But if you're meeting somebody for the first time that is making time to do an hour tennis lesson- Mm-hmm and you say,"I don't have time for that"- Or,"How do you have time for that?" Okay.
• 29:11
  Right.
• 29:11
  Well, maybe it's because that's not important to you.
• 29:13
  Maybe you make time for other things, or maybe you misuse your time or mismanage your time- Yeah or whatever it is, but I think that we just, as women, have to be a little bit more careful with the language that we use with one another- 100% because maybe if by you saying,"I don't have time for that," maybe it's just you don't know how to use your time appropriately yet.
• 29:30
  Yeah, you're not prioritizing it the same way.
• 29:32
  You're not, it's not your priority.
• 29:32
  You're not prioritizing it the same way.
• 29:33
  It doesn't mean you're not prioritizing your time wisely.
• 29:36
  It just means that you two are not prioritizing your time the same way.
• 29:40
  I also think what you had said earlier in the conversation, like really struck me too, was that you had said you grew up with a mom that prioritized herself.
• 29:48
  And I think that's also a really interesting way to look at something because you're the child of a mom who, quote-unquote, prioritized herself, or you thought or felt she did, and that's not a bad thing because what do you feel like you learned from that?
• 30:06
  That I had a happy mom- Mm-hmm when she had a blow-dry and she went to an exercise class.
• 30:10
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:11
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:11
  It's a skill to learn what are things that recharge you.
• 30:14
  Right.
• 30:14
  That's a skill.
• 30:15
  It is.
• 30:15
  'Cause not everybody knows the answers to the, answers to that question.
• 30:18
  No.
• 30:19
  Remember when you used to ask me and I had no idea?
• 30:20
  It can, and it can change- Yep with seasons of your life.
• 30:23
  Right.
• 30:23
  Maybe some things that you enjoy, you're like,"Eh, I don't really enjoy it anymore." Right.
• 30:26
  But it's a skill to figure out what you like.
• 30:29
  Yep.
• 30:29
  And but I will say, what I want my girls to see in me is just different language surrounding it.
• 30:35
  Yes.
• 30:36
  Like,"Mommy got her hair done today." I'm not sneaking in the house that I got my hair done today.
• 30:40
  Right.
• 30:40
  You know?
• 30:40
  You're not feeling bad about it.
• 30:41
  I'm not.
• 30:41
  I'm gonna say like,"Yeah- Right mom got her hair done today." Yeah.
• 30:43
  When mom does these things, like see m- the big smile on my face?
• 30:47
  Yeah.
• 30:47
  You know, like we don't need to sneak around about it.
• 30:49
  Yep, for sure.
• 30:50
  Yep.
• 30:50
  I think that that is such a good way to look at it.
• 30:53
  I want my kids to see me as someone who obviously loves being their mom, but also as someone who has my own interests and goals outside of being a mom, and I have to stop feeling guilty about that.
• 31:06
  I still do, and I'm really trying because when I look at it through that lens, that is what I want them to know, and that is what I want them to see about me, and I don't want that to be looked at as a negative, you know?
• 31:19
  And I don't think it will.
• 31:21
  I don't think so either.
• 31:22
  I don't think so either.
• 31:23
  Mm-hmm.
• 31:23
  Last night I went to dinner with a girlfriend.
• 31:25
  And we went on the later side just'cause it was like what worked- Yep for our families.
• 31:28
  And the girls were like,"But you're not putting us to bed tonight?" And it was that whole saga.
• 31:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 31:33
  And a lot of times I would just cancel or I wouldn't even bother going- Right because I'm like,"I don't feel like dealing with them.
• 31:38
  They're gonna feel sad.
• 31:39
  They're gonna feel this.
• 31:39
  They're gonna feel that." Camilla wrote me a note and she was like,"I just love you so much, that's why I wanted you home." I'm like,"Okay, and that's okay.
• 31:47
  I'll be home- Yep later." Yep.
• 31:49
  You know?
• 31:49
  Like th- they figure, she figured it out.
• 31:51
  Yeah, and I also think that if you then said to her,"Well, Mommy's making time to have dinner with a friend who I don't get to see all of the time," like- Right she would understand that, you know?
• 31:59
  Like, you w- wanna make time with your friends, like I'm the same, and I don't think that that's a negative, right.
• 32:05
  And I do think that keeping that lens of like what your child can learn from you by doing these things and modeling it is very powerful.
• 32:17
  I think so, too.
• 32:18
  Yeah.
• 32:19
  I think so, too.
• 32:19
  Very.
• 32:19
  I just have to kinda get comfortable with- Right that.
• 32:23
  You know?
• 32:23
  The weird part of it, you know?
• 32:24
  Yeah.
• 32:25
  The weird part of it is that sometimes I am choosing myself- in the moment- over other people.
• 32:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:31
  And that- still strikes me as being selfish.
• 32:35
  But working on it.
• 32:37
  We're all working on it.
• 32:38
  Working on it.
• 32:39
  Okay.
• 32:39
  So we'll close out our episode today with our pink spotlight, our person, place, thing, tip, mantra, something that is making life a little bit better this week.
• 32:48
  Mine's a product- Okay that the Millennial Trend Seeker- Oh, yes told me about.
• 32:51
  Oh my God, I see it on your ph- Okay.
• 32:52
  So this is my new...
• 32:54
  remember when we were kids and we had, like, a Trapper Keeper of like- Yes all of our stuff?
• 32:57
  Yes.
• 32:58
  This is my new Trapper Keeper.
• 32:59
  Oh my God.
• 33:00
  It's my phone.
• 33:01
  I'm obsessed.
• 33:01
  My keys.
• 33:02
  Is it...
• 33:02
  Wait, is it a...
• 33:03
  Is that...
• 33:04
  Okay, so she has a chain on the bottom- So I have a chain- of her phone on the bottom- With that phone of my phone.
• 33:08
  This is from Velvet Caviar.
• 33:10
  Velvet, yeah, Velvet Caviar.
• 33:10
  So this is a phone case, if you're not, like, looking in- Yeah on our Instagram, and then it comes with this cute little chain.
• 33:16
  Oh.
• 33:16
  So I got a black heart one.
• 33:17
  I'm obsessed.
• 33:17
  And then I clipped my keys to my car onto it as well, and then,'cause I don't really need my wallet anymore.
• 33:24
  I have Apple Pay.
• 33:25
  Right.
• 33:25
  I mean, I suppose I could shove a credit card in the back of this- Right and I have a photo of my ID- You have everything on my, um- Yeah on my phone.
• 33:32
  Which I don't know if that would suffice if I got pulled over- I love that a digital A digital, um, but this is it, and I love this.
• 33:39
  It- So that's how you're holding your phone?
• 33:41
  This is how I'm holding- Like,'cause you know I have the Loopy- holding my phone, like this and I love the Loopy because this is how I hold my phone, but I like that.
• 33:48
  Well, in the car- Yeah when I wanna charge it- Now you can I can charge it now with this.
• 33:53
  I don't have to, I mean, I could, of course, plug it in, but- Oh like that.
• 33:57
  I know,'cause this is, like, very, the loop in the back is very disruptive- for tripods, for chargers.
• 34:04
  Like, it just gets in the way of everything, but I l- I need to be able to hold it because I need my hands.
• 34:08
  So- I bought so many things off of her links.
• 34:11
  If you haven't listened to that- Love podcast or if you have, go in her show notes.
• 34:15
  She linked so many cool things.
• 34:17
  I got the, the blow-dryer.
• 34:19
  Yep.
• 34:19
  I got this with the little, um- Love I think it's cute too I'm definitely gonna order that'cause I'm getting the new phone.
• 34:24
  So I- Oh, you are getting a new phone?
• 34:25
  Well, I'm gonna try.
• 34:26
  Yeah, I need, I'm, I'm due for an upgrade, and- Um, I even got her earring stack- Love that she linked- So cute like, from Amazon, so, like, I loved all of her finds.
• 34:34
  Oh my goodness.
• 34:35
  I was totally influenced.
• 34:36
  So fun.
• 34:36
  But the phone case, don't sleep on that.
• 34:37
  That's a good one.
• 34:38
  Okay.
• 34:38
  That is amazing.
• 34:40
  Okay, mine is going to be,'cause we came back from our Ireland trip, and we were there for a family wedding.
• 34:46
  And my oldest, my son, he is very, very picky about clothing and, like, textures and stuff, and so we had a little bit of a hard time trying to find him something to wear that he would be comfortable with.
• 35:00
  And we found this brand, it's probably more specifically boys' clothes, but if you're looking for inexpensive boys' clothes for, school photos or holiday photos or the holidays or an event, we found this brand called French Toast on Amazon, which is, like, the cutest freaking name Like, French Toast for, I think it's school uniforms.
• 35:21
  It has, like, basics, but everything we got him was so soft.
• 35:25
  Everything felt like pajamas.
• 35:26
  We got him, nice little khakis and little trousers and little polos, and they were, like, long sleeve and short sleeve, and they were so stretchy and so soft.
• 35:35
  He was so comfortable.
• 35:36
  It, like, literally felt like he was wearing PJs, but everything looked dressed up, and he looked so cute.
• 35:42
  Like, I've never seen him look cuter- He did look so cute in my life, but he was, like, very comfortable.
• 35:47
  And everything was, like, 13 bucks, 15 bucks.
• 35:50
  Like, very, very reasonable for what it looked like and what it felt like.
• 35:55
  What a good find.
• 35:56
  It was such a good find.
• 35:57
  Wait, can we just talk about the shoes that he was in, the patent shoes?
• 36:00
  Obsessed.
• 36:01
  He,'cause I think I've only ever seen him in, like, the- He looked dapper the Cars Crocs.
• 36:04
  Yes, he has, like, yes, he's always in, like, Crocs or light-ups.
• 36:07
  Like- Oh my gosh but, like, we got him to look, like, very, very- And he loved it?
• 36:10
  Oh, yeah.
• 36:11
  He looked great.
• 36:12
  He wore a tie.
• 36:13
  I've never seen him literally look better in my life.
• 36:15
  Oh, what a cutie pie.
• 36:16
  I'm like,"You are cute." And he's comfy cozy.
• 36:18
  Yes, and he was very comfortable in it.
• 36:19
  French Toast.
• 36:20
  And so I was like, I know.
• 36:21
  I was like,"What a cute name." But it has, like, there was girl stuff, too, but my girl, she'll wear anything.
• 36:27
  But if you do need uniforms or anything like that, it was such a cute brand.
• 36:31
  We were so pleasantly surprised by the quality, and they had, like, a bunch of colors, so I'm gonna go back and order him, like, a red one and a green one for, like, maroon- For holidays like, for holidays and stuff because- Right he was, like, happily wearing it.
• 36:44
  So- Oh, I love that good find.
• 36:46
  I will put the link to that Amazon shop in the show notes, too.
• 36:49
  But- I know.
• 36:49
  You've been getting some good Amazon finds lately.
• 36:52
  Yeah, we've been, yeah, we've had some luck, oh, man.
• 36:54
  All right.
• 36:54
  Well, thank you guys so much.
• 36:56
  We will see you next week.
• 36:57
  See you next week.
• 36:58
  Bye.
• 36:58
  Bye