Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Taylor Swift won't shake it off! Singer to testify in groping case

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Taylor Swift won't shake it off! Singer to testify in groping case · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x M Triumph
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Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. Taylor Swift is getting ready for
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Speaker 1: a performance, not on stage, but in a federal courtroom.
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Speaker 1: She's getting ready to take the stand in her civil
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Speaker 1: suit against a radio djh she accuses of groping her
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Speaker 1: during a photo of Swift is being sued by k
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Speaker 1: Y g O d J David Mueller. Swift claimed Mueller's
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Speaker 1: hand grabbed her backside inappropriately and his radio station fired him.
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Speaker 1: This TMZ picture showing the two together will be at
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Speaker 1: the center of the trial. Look at where his hand us.
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Speaker 1: It's an odd spot. My hand was never under her skirts.
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Speaker 1: I never grabbed her. Mueller is asking for millions, Swift
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Speaker 1: just one dollar. It's about women's rights. It's something that's
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Speaker 1: been going on for years, and women are saying enough
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Speaker 1: is enough? Shake it off. I don't want to live
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Speaker 1: forever blank space. The list goes on and on and
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Speaker 1: on a place in this world, all too well, cold
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Speaker 1: as you haunted in a set. I can just name
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Speaker 1: this list forever. I'm talking about massive hits by superstar
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Speaker 1: Taylor Swift. She's like everybody's sister, everybody's first cousin the
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Speaker 1: Girl next Door, but now she is a major witness
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Speaker 1: in a major trial as superstar Taylor Swift heads to court.
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Speaker 1: Taylor Swift heading to court any case involving an alleged
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Speaker 1: groping and alleged groping by kind of a star in
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Speaker 1: his own world. I Nancy Grace, this is crime stories.
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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Taylor Swift is headed
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Speaker 1: to court in any case that has made a sensation
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Speaker 1: when it hit the news. The pop star has been
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Speaker 1: sitting next to her lawyers as they began the process
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Speaker 1: of selecting a jury for a trial. She accused a
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Speaker 1: radio DJ of groping her in the middle of a
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Speaker 1: photo shoot. Joining me right now from Radar Online dot
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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Alexis Terres Chuck, Alexis, thanks for being
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Speaker 1: with us, Alexis. What's so crazy is she's not suing him,
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Speaker 1: He's suing her. Do I have it completely bass Ackwards? Well,
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Speaker 1: he initially sued her. He said that she got him
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Speaker 1: fired and that she defamed him, that because of her,
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Speaker 1: that he lost his hundred and fifty thousand dollar a
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Speaker 1: year DJ job, and that she had trashed his name.
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Speaker 1: But she actually turned around and countersuit him for assault
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Speaker 1: and battery, and she said that she was violated by him.
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Speaker 1: That she literally said in court in a deposition that
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Speaker 1: he grabbed her ass cheek and she had She's never
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Speaker 1: been more shared anything in her life. Okay, so this
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Speaker 1: is how it all went down. The DJ David Mueller,
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Speaker 1: according to Taylor Swift, slipped his hand up under her
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Speaker 1: dress while they posed together at one of her concerts
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Speaker 1: back in two thousand thirteen. Now, as Alexis Torez Chuck
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Speaker 1: from Radar Online just tells us, Mueller suss first, saying
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Speaker 1: Swift's allegation cost him a hundred and fifty thousand dollars
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Speaker 1: a year times what ten or twenty as long as
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Speaker 1: he thought he was going to be a DJ. She
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Speaker 1: immediately set countersuit in about thirty days, describing the groping
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Speaker 1: incident as quote completely intentional. Now you know, also with
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Speaker 1: me is a very well known lawyer in his jurisdiction
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Speaker 1: and really across the country, Jason Oceans. Jason, when a
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Speaker 1: guy lifts his hand up under your skirt and grabs
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Speaker 1: your rear end, how can that be un intentional? Nancy,
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Speaker 1: It's an intentional act I think the real question is
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Speaker 1: the time frame here. This happened two years before the
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Speaker 1: suit by Mueller regarding his termination, and then sort of
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Speaker 1: it almost seems like, well, you're gonna file a suit
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Speaker 1: against me, Taylor Swift says, so I'll file a suit
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Speaker 1: against you. Where's the gapping in all of this? That
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Speaker 1: seems to me the bigger question. Okay, I don't know
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Speaker 1: what you just said. I think you decided not to
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Speaker 1: answer the question. Uh, how can a guy get his
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Speaker 1: hand up your scot and grab your rear in give
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Speaker 1: it a squeeze and that'd be an intentional That was
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Speaker 1: my question. Although I admire the fancy footwork that you
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Speaker 1: just displayed, I don't know what you said something about
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Speaker 1: time passing and a gap. I don't know. Now back
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Speaker 1: to the question, how can that be unintentional? Jason? In
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Speaker 1: and of itself, it's it's got to be an intentional act,
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Speaker 1: right if you're particularly grabbing, unless your hand is around
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Speaker 1: and someone moves and it slides down. But I sure
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Speaker 1: the actual tord of grabbing what you got your hand
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Speaker 1: around and someone moves and it slides down. Okay, don't
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Speaker 1: you have to go up the skirt and then squeeze.
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Speaker 1: How do you wait a minute? What the slides down
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Speaker 1: the groper? Per se? But I imagine if you're grabbing
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Speaker 1: hold of something in particular, you're grabbing hold of it,
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Speaker 1: aren't you? Oh, it was something in particular, all right,
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Speaker 1: hand around the way somebody moves it's the photo shoot.
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Speaker 1: Maybe someone misconstrues that. I'm more concerned about the time
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Speaker 1: frame here that gapping of the act. Wait wait, wait, wait,
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Speaker 1: somebody misconstrues what if a guy puts his hand up
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Speaker 1: my skirt and grabs my rear reend. Let me tell
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Speaker 1: you something. He's gonna put out a hand to pull
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Speaker 1: back a nub. Okay, I think we all understand that.
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Speaker 1: Now let's take a look at this picture that's more concerning. Look,
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Speaker 1: let me just say I love Taylor Swift. Okay, we
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Speaker 1: dance to it. We have dance party almost every night
6:02
Speaker 1: before the twins go to sleep, because I find Jason
6:05
Speaker 1: that really helps calm them down before they go to sleep.
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Speaker 1: Creak up, Taylor Swift on Alex, I mean, you know
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Speaker 1: the twins? Ps, how are your children? Don't tell me
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Speaker 1: how old they are? Might startling, And I won't tell
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Speaker 1: you because we'll all start crying. Oh man, oh, I
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Speaker 1: guess you're not having dance parties at night in my
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Speaker 1: own head, in my own head, just to my own hand.
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Speaker 1: But here's the issue. I'm going to get back to
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Speaker 1: your alleged gap problem, which I don't see a problem.
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Speaker 1: She was gonna let it go, not say anything, and
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Speaker 1: just be irritated the way most victims do. Uh, they
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Speaker 1: just keep on going. You know, it didn't happen. It
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Speaker 1: didn't happen. Gotta keep going until he sues her. And
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Speaker 1: boy does he have a tiger by the tail now
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Speaker 1: he can't hold on and he can't let go. So
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Speaker 1: we'll get back to your gap issue. But here's an
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Speaker 1: issue that I have, and I see the issue. And
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Speaker 1: as you know, Jason Oceans, when you go to trial,
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Speaker 1: you've got to not only prepare your case, but you
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Speaker 1: have to be ready for their case to shoot it down. One.
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Speaker 1: Remember Ronald Reagan came up with that Space Wars thing
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Speaker 1: where we're gonna shoot down incoming missiles. Boy was he right? Okay,
7:19
Speaker 1: but uh, you've got to be ready to shoot down
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Speaker 1: their case. Here's the problem for her. Okay, have you
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Speaker 1: seen the picture of the photo shoot where it allegedly happened.
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Speaker 1: She's smiling, She's like, everything's fine. I have an answer
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Speaker 1: for this. Here's my answer. This was before the incident,
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Speaker 1: like right before when that when that camera clicked. But
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Speaker 1: that's going to be an issue. What do you think? Well, everything,
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Speaker 1: it's all about timing. I mean you you look, there's
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Speaker 1: a photo shoot, there's a security team there, and certainly
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Speaker 1: the public, uh you know, is surrounding that to the
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Speaker 1: extent even though it's backstage, there are people they're observing that.
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Speaker 1: I imagine if if if my uh my backside was
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Speaker 1: like it, I'd get out a scream or a shriek
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Speaker 1: or something like that. I wouldn't tolerate that and be
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Speaker 1: involved in a smile and he plays any time. I've
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Speaker 1: got something for you. I just pulled the picture up again,
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Speaker 1: White Jackie. Come look at this. I've got my friend
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Speaker 1: Nina Jackie and man not Jackie in the studio. Look
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Speaker 1: at this picture, y'all. Look at this picture. It's like
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Speaker 1: his hand is on her rear end. Look at this picture.
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Speaker 1: I see I was looking at her smile, her quasi smile.
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Speaker 1: But look look look she's like thank you? Is she
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Speaker 1: really grabbing earned like through her gritted teeth. Look at
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Speaker 1: his hand. People, and I actually have a man in
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Speaker 1: the studio. What can you say about that? Mr? Man? Okay? Yeah,
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Speaker 1: and we we can't even that's three witnesses. Jay Alexis
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Speaker 1: terres Chuk wants saying, go ahead, Alexis jumping. You know.
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Speaker 1: I focused on her smile, but there's a lot more
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Speaker 1: in this picture. Alexis and her body language speaks so
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Speaker 1: much so describing the pictures. She is standing next to
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Speaker 1: Mueller's girlfriend. Those two are as close as can be.
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Speaker 1: They clear, you know they are straining away, Yes, she does.
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Speaker 1: She is so far away from him and you can
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Speaker 1: see his arm. It's absolutely right on her rear. And
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Speaker 1: so I think that she's stepped away from But she's professional.
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Speaker 1: She has taken probably millions of pictures with people. I've
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Speaker 1: actually been in one of these meet and greets with her,
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Speaker 1: and it's so fast, you go right through. But she
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Speaker 1: says a couple of words to you. She looks you
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Speaker 1: right in the eye. She's lovely. But she did take
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Speaker 1: action immediately. She told her photographer and her security guard
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Speaker 1: that he had attacked her, and they waite, white, white,
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Speaker 1: I want to get back to that okay, Jason, I
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Speaker 1: was with you. I was going to come back to
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Speaker 1: the issue of the gap time. Okay, but point the incident,
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Speaker 1: the alleged incident. He has not been convicted, he has
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Speaker 1: not been found civilly responsible, and just put that out
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Speaker 1: there were striking a jury right now. But that gap
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Speaker 1: is a problem. And I've had that gap problem between
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Speaker 1: the incident and the reporting in other cases, for instance,
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Speaker 1: um sex assault cases. If there's a gap period between
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Speaker 1: the incident and the time the victim reports, that, the
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Speaker 1: defense has a field day as if it didn't happen.
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Speaker 1: And I get it that that's a chink in the armor.
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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it didn't happen. It means there's a
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Speaker 1: gap that you've got to deal with. But what Alexis
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Speaker 1: is saying right now may address your valid point, Jason Oceans,
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Speaker 1: go go ahead with what you're saying. She said immediately
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Speaker 1: after Alexis, just tell me the whole thing, and I'll
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Speaker 1: try not to interrupt. So they take the picture click click,
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Speaker 1: he leaves. She says that she immediately went to her
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Speaker 1: and her security guard she obviously always has a lot
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Speaker 1: of security around her for reasons just like this, and
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Speaker 1: told them that he had groped her, and so they
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Speaker 1: tracked him down like they had given him tickets, so
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Speaker 1: they knew where he was the security team and actually
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Speaker 1: had him thrown right out of the concert immediately. She
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Speaker 1: did take I hate to say swift action, but she
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Speaker 1: did take swift action. And then her mother who's a
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Speaker 1: part of her management team, and not like that. Here
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Speaker 1: we'll take We'll take anything you know you can give us.
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Speaker 1: So I'll go with the swift action. And then her
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Speaker 1: mother who was part of her management team. Taylor keeps
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Speaker 1: everything in the house. They called the radio station the
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Speaker 1: next day and and complained about him. They said, you know,
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Speaker 1: he groped Taylor on purpose. He grabbed her under her dress.
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Speaker 1: She couldn't get away from him, and they were very
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Speaker 1: unhappy about this, and they wanted to complain about it.
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Speaker 1: He was fired two days later. What's interesting, Jason Oceans,
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Speaker 1: is she could have proceeded with a Okay, couldn't she
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Speaker 1: with a simple assault or simple battery? Of course, and
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Speaker 1: and and again you're right, this is not a criminal case.
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Speaker 1: This is a civil case. But listen, he she couldn't
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Speaker 1: get away. He's now got a vice script so tight
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Speaker 1: like a clamp that she can't even get away. I mean,
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Speaker 1: come on, now, for the moment. I mean, if someone
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Speaker 1: grabs someone, your instant reaction, if you're uncomfortable with it,
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Speaker 1: is to get away, to move. I don't care how
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Speaker 1: many you know shots you've taken. If something happens that's uncomfortable,
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Speaker 1: whatever it is, you move, you get away, you do something,
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Speaker 1: you don't just sit there. And I agree with you.
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Speaker 1: I agree with you. But Alexis, let's address what he's saying.
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Speaker 1: That's another valid point he's raising. And these points are
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Speaker 1: going to be raised at trial by the defense, So
12:49
Speaker 1: I might as well grab the bull by the horns
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Speaker 1: suit weing do with it. Think about Alexis, if she
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Speaker 1: had had that reaction, that would have been fodder so
13:00
Speaker 1: or tabloids. Uh, it would have been her face flashed
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Speaker 1: on every screen with distorted complaining, screaming, reacting. And Jason
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Speaker 1: is right. I mean, I can still remember the first
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Speaker 1: time a guy grabbed my rear end and I was
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Speaker 1: in high school. I was a cheerleader, and we we
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Speaker 1: had to spend not only the whole pe having pe,
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Speaker 1: but then another hour doing cheerleading. So we had to
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Speaker 1: were sent into the weight room and a guy in there,
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Speaker 1: football player, grabbed my rear end and I turned around
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Speaker 1: and swatted him so hard and stomped out. And I
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Speaker 1: was just a girl. I didn't even know what I
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Speaker 1: was doing. You know, It's just a natural reaction, Alexis.
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Speaker 1: Isn't it true that one and four women have been
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Speaker 1: in some way molested one in four, it is, And
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Speaker 1: for Taylor Swift to have it happened with photographers and
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Speaker 1: security guards standing there, she was shocked, and she said
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Speaker 1: that she wanted to keep it quiet and discreet, which
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Speaker 1: is why she handled it with the radio station. But
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Speaker 1: when he sued her, she fired right back and she said,
14:20
Speaker 1: you know what, I am doing this for every woman
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Speaker 1: out there who has been assaulted. She said, I want
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Speaker 1: women to know that they should report this, they should
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Speaker 1: defend it, and they should not feel guilty for it,
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Speaker 1: because it's not their fault. If she tried. I think
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Speaker 1: that you can see in that picture that she is
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Speaker 1: scooting as far away from him as she can. What's
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Speaker 1: she gonna do start screaming and twirling around. She's got
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Speaker 1: a concert to perform. Yeah, you know what, Ella Duke?
14:45
Speaker 1: Ella Duke text this photo? Wait, I can actually do
14:48
Speaker 1: it myself. Jason, You've got to see this photo, this
14:52
Speaker 1: particular photo. Can you pull it up or can I
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Speaker 1: text it to you right now? You have dimensional? Are
15:00
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15:15
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15:18
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15:21
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15:24
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15:31
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16:11
Speaker 1: families and the author. So to you, Jason Oceans, right now,
16:24
Speaker 1: they're striking a jury, and to me that was one
16:27
Speaker 1: of the most nerve racking but one of the most
16:31
Speaker 1: enjoyable time at the same time of a jury trial,
16:35
Speaker 1: because what you do when you strike a jury vo dire,
16:38
Speaker 1: which coincidentally is French for to speak the truth vodre,
16:44
Speaker 1: And you would I would bring in a panel of
16:48
Speaker 1: a hundred or more people never seen him before, hopefully,
16:52
Speaker 1: and first they all answered general questions and our jurisdiction.
16:56
Speaker 1: The district attorney or the lead the Planktiffs lawyer would
17:00
Speaker 1: start and ask general questions like do you all live
17:03
Speaker 1: in the jurisdiction or any of you convicted felons? Blah
17:06
Speaker 1: blah blah, And then each lawyer has a go at
17:10
Speaker 1: general questions that people raise their hands, and then individual
17:15
Speaker 1: was ire where you ask each individual person questions. That's
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Speaker 1: what they're doing right now, right Jason, Yes, although I
17:24
Speaker 1: like to say it in my cousin Vinny bois dear
17:27
Speaker 1: but nonetheless, yeah, you're bringing in your whole, your whole agement.
17:31
Speaker 1: It really was your cousins as you're from Jersey. Yeah,
17:34
Speaker 1: well originally from Brooklyn, but close enough. I'm coming. Hey,
17:37
Speaker 1: well we got that on the records. That good Brooklyn. Uh,
17:42
Speaker 1: you know, sixty perspective jurors doesn't seem like enough to
17:46
Speaker 1: go through of who really doesn't want to be on
17:48
Speaker 1: the Taylor Swift trial. I mean they've never heard of her.
17:51
Speaker 1: And you know, some of the motivations of jurors are hidden,
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Speaker 1: and you've got to be a psychologist or psychiatrist to
17:58
Speaker 1: try and fish out what's really only on. So at
18:00
Speaker 1: least you're getting a level playing field of you know,
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Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to get your point across and
18:05
Speaker 1: someone's not going to be clouded by Uh. I'm on
18:08
Speaker 1: a famous trial and I can't wait to write a
18:10
Speaker 1: book once this is all over. That's the toughest part
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Speaker 1: in this one. I would love to be on this jury.
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Speaker 1: See I would. I just expect Taylor Swifted just breakout
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Speaker 1: in song at any moment. Um. Okay, here we go.
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Speaker 1: Jury selection for this trial of a former Denver DJ
18:24
Speaker 1: David Mueller versus Taylor Swift has kicked off, it said
18:29
Speaker 1: the Alfred A. A. Raj Courthouse in Denver. Now Mueller
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Speaker 1: accused Swift of fabricating an incident where he allegedly if
18:40
Speaker 1: I have failed to say allegedly at any point during today,
18:44
Speaker 1: it's alleged it has not been proved where he says
18:50
Speaker 1: her complainant caused him to be fired, and he wants
18:53
Speaker 1: three million dollars in damages from Taylor Swift. We expect
18:58
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift to take this stand now. She turned around
19:01
Speaker 1: as alexus to rest. Chuck told us and countersued him
19:05
Speaker 1: for assault in battery, saying he put his hand up
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Speaker 1: her dress and grabbed a rear end. Details will be
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Speaker 1: aired in court over the next nine days. We believe
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Speaker 1: it will take nine days. Jason, why why did lawyers
19:19
Speaker 1: always lie? You know, I've never had one one defense lawyer,
19:23
Speaker 1: not once. The State of the judge will ask at
19:27
Speaker 1: the beginning, Miss Grace, how long will your case take?
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Speaker 1: And I will say it will take approximately two weeks
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Speaker 1: of the state to put up its case. Defense how
19:34
Speaker 1: long four or five weeks? You're on and we have
19:36
Speaker 1: so much I'm like, right, it'll be like to you
19:39
Speaker 1: gotta keeping that you got all the resources on the
19:43
Speaker 1: government side, sort of got to give you a time
19:45
Speaker 1: for him to keep all your people and paralegals and
19:49
Speaker 1: and everybody else on the government payroll. Sharp, don't we,
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Speaker 1: oh Jason, the power of the state. That would be
19:56
Speaker 1: me and my broken down Honda out at midnight delivering
19:59
Speaker 1: some penis and a housing project. And I'd just like
20:02
Speaker 1: to add that at the red light, smoke would be
20:05
Speaker 1: pouring out from under my hood. Okay, So back to you,
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Speaker 1: Alexis Terres chuck Radar online dot com, which is a
20:13
Speaker 1: whole another can of worms. I have to go there
20:15
Speaker 1: for all my Tory spelling news um so swift Swift
20:20
Speaker 1: shows up in court Monday through a side entrance wearing
20:23
Speaker 1: a white dressed in a black jacket. Of course, all
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Speaker 1: the news outlets have to discuss what she's wearing. Why
20:30
Speaker 1: don't know? She could wear a sack or, as we say,
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Speaker 1: a croaker sack and should still look awesome. One jury
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Speaker 1: has already refused himself on grounds of having friends who
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Speaker 1: are sexually assaulted. Okay, can I just tell you, Alexis,
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Speaker 1: Did I tell you that. I think it was last
20:47
Speaker 1: year I got called for jury duty. Did I tell
20:50
Speaker 1: you that? Oh? Yes, And it was an armed robbery
20:54
Speaker 1: in a waffle house, a place very dear to my
20:57
Speaker 1: heart and my family's heart and act we love it
21:01
Speaker 1: so much. They gave us all Christmas smugs last year.
21:03
Speaker 1: Now back to the trial. Every time, Jason, I was
21:07
Speaker 1: the nightmare jer or every time, has anyone already formed
21:12
Speaker 1: an opinion? Right? Hand up? Absolutely? Does anybody think this
21:15
Speaker 1: guy did it? Right? Hand up? And I p s.
21:18
Speaker 1: I was standing right in front of the defendant, looking
21:20
Speaker 1: right at him every time I raised my hand and
21:22
Speaker 1: just look at him. I mean he pulled a gun
21:28
Speaker 1: and held it in the nose of a waffle house.
21:30
Speaker 1: A waitress. I don't like that, Jason, do not like that.
21:35
Speaker 1: I was a waitress once. Okay, So I raised my
21:39
Speaker 1: hand on every question and I still was still sitting
21:45
Speaker 1: on the jury at five thirty. Okay, I nearly missed
21:48
Speaker 1: my show that night. I finally did. And to make
21:51
Speaker 1: matters worse, the judge was somebody I wants to prosecuted with. Okay,
21:54
Speaker 1: And a long story short, I finally did get off
21:58
Speaker 1: the jury, and he played guilty. Probably because he's watched
22:02
Speaker 1: me stare at him for eight straight hours, raising my
22:05
Speaker 1: hand every time they asked, do you think he's guilty?
22:08
Speaker 1: But they're striking a jury, how can they possibly get
22:10
Speaker 1: an impartial jury? Jason Oceans, Well, that's that's a great question.
22:14
Speaker 1: My best story of being called for jury duty and
22:16
Speaker 1: I'm in the pool, and you know, same type of question,
22:19
Speaker 1: form an opinion, I said, form an opinion, I said,
22:22
Speaker 1: you better make me the jury foreman. I'll take care
22:25
Speaker 1: of the rest of them. We'll get just as quick.
22:26
Speaker 1: I was gone in about five minutes. That was the
22:29
Speaker 1: best answer I thought anyone had ever given. Leave me
22:32
Speaker 1: in charge of this. They had no interest defense counsel
22:35
Speaker 1: and having me on that pool. But Alexander Haig, I'm
22:38
Speaker 1: in charge. I'm in charge. Okay, question. You know that's
22:42
Speaker 1: what happened to me on a New York jury panel.
22:44
Speaker 1: Do you remember that time, Jason Oceans, I was yet
22:49
Speaker 1: gnashing my teeth and pulling my hair because I was
22:52
Speaker 1: gonna miss some trial to go to jury duty, and
22:55
Speaker 1: I was crying to you about it. In anyway, I
22:59
Speaker 1: ended up was there part of the day. I gave
23:01
Speaker 1: a question an answer very much like that, and for
23:05
Speaker 1: some reason they just threw me right off. I can't
23:07
Speaker 1: imagine why so, but but the reality is Jason seriously
23:12
Speaker 1: striking a jury, which is what's happening right now in
23:16
Speaker 1: the Taylor Swift trial. We don't expect people not to
23:21
Speaker 1: have heard about the case. But the question is, even
23:24
Speaker 1: if they have heard about it, whether they can base
23:27
Speaker 1: their verdict on what they hear in the courtroom and
23:31
Speaker 1: be fair to both sides. That is the issue, not
23:34
Speaker 1: whether they watch TV or read their iPad. You want
23:39
Speaker 1: to write. You want to sift through exactly, you want
23:41
Speaker 1: to sit through to see that there are those people,
23:44
Speaker 1: notwithstanding anything or just they're just good people and they're
23:47
Speaker 1: they're gonna take their civic responsibilities, you know, very focusedly
23:52
Speaker 1: and listen to the judge and all the all the
23:54
Speaker 1: questions surrounding that and be able to come through and
23:57
Speaker 1: and and be honest. And people are you know, they
24:00
Speaker 1: take these responsibilities quite seriously. You just want to make
24:03
Speaker 1: sure you're finding the right people who are doing that.
24:06
Speaker 1: And you know that's why there are you know, jury
24:09
Speaker 1: consultants and you know veteran attorneys who've done this, and
24:12
Speaker 1: you want to you know, really feel that you're scoped
24:15
Speaker 1: out and you got your best shot and getting your
24:17
Speaker 1: point across without someone with predetermined agendas regardless of what
24:21
Speaker 1: they are. Hey, let's go out to the lines. Alexis
24:24
Speaker 1: Terrest check with me, Jason Ocean, straight out to the lines. Joe, Hello, Joe,
24:30
Speaker 1: what's your question about the Taylor Swift trial. You know,
24:33
Speaker 1: I've been loving the story because finally, finally, finally, with
24:37
Speaker 1: all the crime and missing people you've discussed over the years,
24:41
Speaker 1: and I've been following you since Court TV, all of
24:44
Speaker 1: a sudden, You've got a serious matter here. I have
24:47
Speaker 1: some personal experience I got when I was five years old.
24:52
Speaker 1: I bet you do well when I must confess. When
24:56
Speaker 1: I was five years old, I had a little blond girlfriend.
25:00
Speaker 1: I don't really ever remember putting my hand on her.
25:02
Speaker 1: I don't think I like where this is going. But
25:05
Speaker 1: as go ahead, as time wore on um and I
25:09
Speaker 1: should I don't know if I should be coming going
25:13
Speaker 1: up for Taylor Swift or down for Swift Taylor Swift.
25:16
Speaker 1: But as time went on, there were a few times
25:20
Speaker 1: that I happened to put my hand on someone's behind,
25:24
Speaker 1: but never in public, but never to dress. I mean
25:28
Speaker 1: it wasn't it was uncouth. Now I looked at the
25:32
Speaker 1: picture of of that more, it's a it's a it's
25:37
Speaker 1: a a simple assault. It's not just uncouth. And I'd
25:41
Speaker 1: like to ask you a couple of questions, Joe, how
25:44
Speaker 1: did your hand and up on somebody's behind because I
25:49
Speaker 1: was I was crazy about the girls women, and and
25:53
Speaker 1: you know, it didn't happen. Maybe it should be without
25:57
Speaker 1: grabbing their rearms. I didn't grab it. I just put
26:00
Speaker 1: my hand nicely on top of their skirt or whatever
26:04
Speaker 1: they who are wearing and in in public. I have
26:07
Speaker 1: an issue with what with what Joe was saying. You know, true,
26:12
Speaker 1: this is not a murder. The point is that if
26:16
Speaker 1: you look at that picture, if that is some at
26:19
Speaker 1: that moment that he is supposed to have in his
26:22
Speaker 1: hand up her dress, the dress does not look like
26:25
Speaker 1: it's distended. It looks like, yes, he had his hand
26:29
Speaker 1: behind her, but I could not see that that the
26:33
Speaker 1: dress was was sort of distended. True, it's not a murder.
26:41
Speaker 1: It's not an assault. That's I mean as in a
26:46
Speaker 1: serious sex assault such as rape. But this is just
26:52
Speaker 1: one of the things, one of the incidents that women
26:56
Speaker 1: and others have had to put up with for years
27:00
Speaker 1: and grin and bear it and not say anything. And
27:03
Speaker 1: I think that's wrong. And if this did happen, he
27:08
Speaker 1: needed to be fired. And frankly, if this did happen,
27:13
Speaker 1: I believe he should have been prosecuted criminally because you
27:16
Speaker 1: do not go up to a lady, regardless of what
27:21
Speaker 1: she looks like or what others may think of her,
27:23
Speaker 1: and grab her in her private parts. You don't do that, period,
27:28
Speaker 1: end of story. That is why in our society we
27:31
Speaker 1: have rules, rules that we live by, and that and
27:36
Speaker 1: the thumb, it's what sets us aside from the animals
27:41
Speaker 1: out in the jungle that we have rules. We have
27:46
Speaker 1: a society where the weak are protected against those more
27:53
Speaker 1: powerful or more cunning than they are. And you may say, wow,
27:57
Speaker 1: tell Or Swifts a multi millionaire, she's a super are
28:00
Speaker 1: Yes she is. But in this case she is just
28:03
Speaker 1: like every other woman that gets groped or harassed at
28:11
Speaker 1: the workplace or wherever. And if these allegations are true,
28:19
Speaker 1: he deserved to be fired and a whole lot more. Okay,
28:23
Speaker 1: as we are underway in the Taylor Swift jury selection,
28:29
Speaker 1: Voi Dyer, who do you think alexis toures Chuck, they're
28:32
Speaker 1: gonna put on this jury. Well, I think it is
28:35
Speaker 1: not gonna be Taylor's peers, because those are gonna be
28:41
Speaker 1: everybody who listens to her music and who knows her.
28:43
Speaker 1: So I think it's gonna maybe a lot of older
28:45
Speaker 1: people and a lot of people that really aren't fans
28:47
Speaker 1: of Taylor's Who else are they going to find if
28:49
Speaker 1: the jury questions are are you a fan of Taylor Swift?
28:51
Speaker 1: Have you ever streamlined? Streamed her music? Have have you
28:56
Speaker 1: watch any sort of videos? And this is one of
28:58
Speaker 1: the most popular stars in the world. This is gonna
29:00
Speaker 1: be really hard. Well, haven't you watched her videos? For
29:03
Speaker 1: feete's sake? Have you never watched the videos? Probably all
29:06
Speaker 1: of Taylor videos. I'm a huge fan, So I'm not
29:09
Speaker 1: going to be on the jury. Well we do what what? Well,
29:16
Speaker 1: I don't know. How are you going to get anybody
29:17
Speaker 1: that doesn't know about Taylor Swift or hasn't watched her videos?
29:21
Speaker 1: I mean, we know all the words by heart, well
29:23
Speaker 1: most of them. Anyway, Hey, what about this when Taylor
29:26
Speaker 1: Swift takes the stand? Okay, they're gonna try and allege
29:31
Speaker 1: that she fabricated this incident. All right, Jason, what do
29:36
Speaker 1: we know about Teller Swift that they can use against her?
29:40
Speaker 1: Because her team needs to be ready for that. Do
29:43
Speaker 1: you think they can use stories she's written for songs
29:48
Speaker 1: about relationships and somehow we've that into ammunition against her.
29:55
Speaker 1: Certainly anything is going to be part of it from there.
29:57
Speaker 1: And I think the gapping I said that in the
29:59
Speaker 1: beginn any you know, she wants to serve as an
30:01
Speaker 1: example that other women who are gonna you know, resist
30:05
Speaker 1: publicly reliving these similar outrageous and humiliating acts. And that's
30:09
Speaker 1: her quote. Uh, then why not, you know, if you're
30:12
Speaker 1: the champion of women, why why wait until you're sued
30:15
Speaker 1: to respond and then go all at it? If this
30:18
Speaker 1: happened and and you are that champion, then then where
30:21
Speaker 1: were you? Certainly had a platform, I mean the d
30:24
Speaker 1: J Jackson Ueler and you know that shouldn't be intimidating
30:29
Speaker 1: to the Taylor Swift team. Uh, shouldn't have been then,
30:33
Speaker 1: you know, sending your sending your security team to throw
30:36
Speaker 1: her out. That's not enough? What Jason, are you sitting down?
30:41
Speaker 1: Are you an election sitting down? Because I gotta tell
30:43
Speaker 1: you something you may need to lay down for this one.
30:46
Speaker 1: Forget sitting down. Um. Have you ever noticed that some
30:50
Speaker 1: juries go back in the jury room when they come
30:52
Speaker 1: up with a completely crazy conspiracy theory about what happened
30:56
Speaker 1: where there's no evidence whatsoever to support it. Okay, like
31:01
Speaker 1: maybe the drug gang, the Hawaiian drug gang kill Lacy Peterson,
31:06
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um. One juror has already been
31:09
Speaker 1: ruled out by Judge Martinez at the request of Swiss
31:14
Speaker 1: legal team because he confesses he's looked at the leaked
31:18
Speaker 1: photo and he thinks the photo has been altered. He
31:23
Speaker 1: thinks the photo has been photoshopped and altered. So here
31:28
Speaker 1: we go. Here we go with the conspiracy theories. And
31:31
Speaker 1: I can oh, I can only imagine what else it
31:36
Speaker 1: is going to come out of this whole thing, what
31:37
Speaker 1: other theories? Hold on? Guys, I'm going back to the line.
31:40
Speaker 1: Here's Angela and Columbia, Tennessee. Hig here, he just made
31:46
Speaker 1: me the happiest person in the whole wide world. Love
31:48
Speaker 1: you so much. I watch you all the time. Girl.
31:52
Speaker 1: What's happening? What's going on in Columbia, Tennessee? Here? Hey,
31:57
Speaker 1: you know, I've got a funny feeling you might be
31:58
Speaker 1: able to stirt things up. Um, Angela, what do you
32:02
Speaker 1: think about this trial? I think for as being um
32:07
Speaker 1: in her situation before or if not worse, I think
32:10
Speaker 1: it's good for her to speak up. But I want
32:13
Speaker 1: to know why she didn't have no painting though. Wait,
32:15
Speaker 1: I did not know she didn't have on underwear. Whoa,
32:18
Speaker 1: this is a whole new fat she was It was
32:24
Speaker 1: hold on Jackie is like whirling around in a circle
32:28
Speaker 1: in her chair with with wheels on it. She's holding
32:32
Speaker 1: up a sign at me, This says Thong h O
32:35
Speaker 1: n G. I can only assume. Are you saying she
32:37
Speaker 1: had on song underwear anal floss? Okay, that counts is underwear? Well?
32:43
Speaker 1: I what I read? What I read, Nancy, Well, what
32:48
Speaker 1: I read was it was bare but and I don't
32:51
Speaker 1: know to me that was be that she didn't have
32:54
Speaker 1: panties on it. And if you're walking around no pay zone,
32:57
Speaker 1: then that's not very good anyways. Way? Is there something wrong?
33:01
Speaker 1: Either way? I don't think anybody has any wrong. There's
33:04
Speaker 1: something wrong with going commando? Did I miss something? Well no, no,
33:11
Speaker 1: nobody asked such a The whole oceans hold on just
33:16
Speaker 1: a monment we're talking about ladies underwear here. Okay, hold on,
33:19
Speaker 1: let's just go back to the whole commando thing, because
33:23
Speaker 1: I have recently found out John David has been running
33:25
Speaker 1: around without underwear, possibly the whole summer, because I haven't
33:28
Speaker 1: washed you for like two weeks. I'm like, John David,
33:31
Speaker 1: where is your underwear? And he ran away laughing. Okay,
33:34
Speaker 1: and so in addition to wearing his underwear inside out
33:37
Speaker 1: and backwards all summer, Alexas, this is something fun for
33:41
Speaker 1: you to look forward to when your baby gets about
33:43
Speaker 1: two years older. I don't get it. What is it
33:47
Speaker 1: with boys? But you know, that's a whole another, that's
33:51
Speaker 1: a whole another can of worms. I can't. I have
33:53
Speaker 1: to be a shrink note not just one shrink. I
33:55
Speaker 1: need a whole team from Vienna to figure that thing out.
33:58
Speaker 1: But hold on, hold on, back to Taylor Swift. It's
34:04
Speaker 1: my you know, let's go to the underwear expert. Alexis
34:07
Speaker 1: to Rez Chuck with a Radar online dot com. I
34:10
Speaker 1: think both things can be true, which is what my
34:14
Speaker 1: old judge, Judge Luther Albertson, would tell a jury every
34:16
Speaker 1: jury trial. It is your duty to make all witnesses
34:19
Speaker 1: speak the truth and in p and perjury to no one.
34:22
Speaker 1: In other words, can all both be true and nobody's lying?
34:27
Speaker 1: And I say yes it can. I think Angela and Columbia,
34:30
Speaker 1: Tennessee can be right that it was bare skin and
34:35
Speaker 1: she could be wearing a thong in that Alexis you
34:38
Speaker 1: take it from here totally right. She could have been
34:41
Speaker 1: wearing a thong and could be one of the you know,
34:44
Speaker 1: a ski skinpy one. It doesn't even have to be
34:46
Speaker 1: a tiny, tiny g string. It could have a little
34:48
Speaker 1: bit more. But you still have thinking about him putting
34:51
Speaker 1: his hand on her. M okay, and she has a
34:57
Speaker 1: dress on and his hand shouldn't be blow her clothes
35:00
Speaker 1: at any time ever. Should let me touching her period
35:04
Speaker 1: except smiling for a photo of maybe putting his arm
35:07
Speaker 1: around her waist or around her shoulder for the photo.
35:10
Speaker 1: So okay, back to Angela, Angela, I think we have
35:14
Speaker 1: solved the thong versus commando issue. What else do you
35:17
Speaker 1: think about the trial? First of all, what's your favorite song?
35:20
Speaker 1: Mike Taylor Swift? Taylor Swift, Um hang on the new
35:25
Speaker 1: the one that was in um uh fifty side the growing.
35:29
Speaker 1: Maybe I did not see that because it's not Disney. Okay, now,
35:35
Speaker 1: any Kidney, it's been that long since you've seen a movie?
35:43
Speaker 1: What girl? U uh? The new one, the new one,
35:49
Speaker 1: that the second one, the reboot. Okay, Sadly I did
35:53
Speaker 1: not see that either. Okay, but I did rent Around
35:59
Speaker 1: the World in Eighty Days Night Before Last, which is
36:02
Speaker 1: a Disney movie, and forced the twins to watch it.
36:05
Speaker 1: They loved it. Okay. So there was a Taylor Swift
36:08
Speaker 1: song in that movie, yeah, the opening. Yeah, thats what alexis.
36:16
Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to live forever.
36:19
Speaker 1: Well I do, because I've got to make sure I
36:21
Speaker 1: get children to graduate school and married, et cetera. So yes,
36:25
Speaker 1: I'll go with that living for everything. But you know
36:27
Speaker 1: the one I like is haters gonna hate, hate, hate hate.
36:33
Speaker 1: Oh I heard Jason singing along, so somebody has been listening. Sorry, guys,
36:43
Speaker 1: just a little detour, Just a little detour in the trial.
36:46
Speaker 1: So back to your original question, Angela Columbia, Tennessee. Who
36:51
Speaker 1: do you think they're going to put on the jury?
36:53
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I'm kind of uh iffy now because
36:57
Speaker 1: the guy got kicked off, so I don't know what's
36:59
Speaker 1: gonna happen. Now, but read while I got to that
37:02
Speaker 1: she's only asking for one dollar, which shows that she's
37:06
Speaker 1: trying to make a statement and a point at about
37:10
Speaker 1: what happened to her, which is good because she don't
37:12
Speaker 1: need the money anyways. And yeah, I believe you should go.
37:17
Speaker 1: She should do be doing what she's doing because it's
37:20
Speaker 1: only right for her and every other female. And here's
37:23
Speaker 1: the other thing, Angela, Angela, what about this? This woman
37:28
Speaker 1: is probably losing so much money by having to come
37:33
Speaker 1: to court every day, ma'am. She can't be making appearances,
37:37
Speaker 1: she can't be going doing all the things she does.
37:40
Speaker 1: She's this is a hit for her, and she's making
37:45
Speaker 1: would set to make one dollar? Jackie, you're holding up
37:50
Speaker 1: a sun that says money going to charity? Which man?
37:56
Speaker 1: But the one dollar Alexia supposed? The truth is she's suing.
37:59
Speaker 1: She is it one dollar or money to charity? What's
38:02
Speaker 1: the truth? One dollars in the court documents, but the
38:09
Speaker 1: jury I just read it for more, Jackie, You wrong, Okay,
38:14
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the forum. Yes, that's the way we say.
38:19
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen any pictures related to the lawsuit?
38:23
Speaker 1: Have you formed any opinion? Do you have an opinion?
38:26
Speaker 1: Of Mueller. Do you have an opinion of Taylor Swift?
38:29
Speaker 1: Do you listen to Denver area country radio. This guy
38:33
Speaker 1: could be a little bit of a celeb in his
38:35
Speaker 1: own area. Some people may know him in that area
38:38
Speaker 1: more than they know Taylor Swift, So that's something for
38:41
Speaker 1: them to take into account. Um. Have you intentionally listened
38:46
Speaker 1: to tell Or Swift through a free online service? Have
38:49
Speaker 1: you paid money to download her? Have you read articles
38:53
Speaker 1: about her? I've read a ton of articles on writerar
38:56
Speaker 1: online dot com. So, Alexis, did you say her mother
39:00
Speaker 1: is her manager? Her mother is part of her management team.
39:03
Speaker 1: She keeps everything in house. It's it's all the Taylor
39:06
Speaker 1: Swift corporation. She doesn't have outside policist or manager. She
39:11
Speaker 1: keeps everything in house. So it was her mother that
39:14
Speaker 1: contacted the radio station and told them about Mr Mueller
39:20
Speaker 1: and complained about what happened after, you know, he was
39:23
Speaker 1: kicked out of the concert, he didn't get to stayed
39:25
Speaker 1: and watching his girlfriend were kicked out, and they complained
39:30
Speaker 1: and then he lost his job. Now the police. The
39:33
Speaker 1: police were not called, according to reports, because Taylor Swift
39:37
Speaker 1: and wanted to keep the whole situation quote discreet, and
39:41
Speaker 1: quiet and confidential. I wonder why, why do you think
39:46
Speaker 1: that was Alexis Why do you think she did not
39:49
Speaker 1: bring police in on it. I think that she was
39:52
Speaker 1: probably embarrassed. Right, this man has grabbed her. She has
39:56
Speaker 1: every protection in place in the world, right she she
40:00
Speaker 1: lives with security guards, she has people around her at
40:03
Speaker 1: all times, and still this man was able to grab her.
40:07
Speaker 1: And there was nothing she could do. She was in
40:09
Speaker 1: the middle of a photo shoot with all of her guests.
40:12
Speaker 1: Then she had to go up on stage and perform.
40:14
Speaker 1: She had a job to do. She was in the
40:16
Speaker 1: middle of her job, with very tight scheduled job, and
40:19
Speaker 1: it was embarrassing, and so she wanted to handle it
40:21
Speaker 1: very quietly. And the man waited two years before he
40:25
Speaker 1: decided to make it publo Um Jason otions. One could
40:29
Speaker 1: argue that he was seeking attention by filing this lawsuit.
40:32
Speaker 1: His lawyer, Gabriel McFarlane actually argued Jason Ocean in previous
40:38
Speaker 1: hearings that Mueller was the victim of mistaken identity. How
40:44
Speaker 1: can that be. He's in a photo with her and
40:49
Speaker 1: she immediately complained to her staff and had him kicked
40:54
Speaker 1: out of the concert. How can it be? Mistaken identity
40:56
Speaker 1: was that a big boo boo was the girlfriend who
40:59
Speaker 1: was in the picture who grabbed who grabbed Taylor. That's
41:02
Speaker 1: not uncommon in today's society, women grabbing women, men grabbing men.
41:06
Speaker 1: I don't know what his attorneys, you know, intent was
41:10
Speaker 1: to create that idea. I'm still too focused on the
41:14
Speaker 1: champion of women's rights and at the moment, and it's
41:17
Speaker 1: two years later. In in in response, you know, seemingly, uh,
41:22
Speaker 1: try to blame the girlfriend. Did you just try to
41:26
Speaker 1: blame the girls? I was following? He gave me, Nancy,
41:29
Speaker 1: you're taking identity. If there's three people in the picture,
41:33
Speaker 1: you know, who else could it have been besides him?
41:36
Speaker 1: Or he meant I thought he meant by that that
41:39
Speaker 1: it was some other person that had taken a photo
41:42
Speaker 1: with her, and she mistakenly, in retrospect, thought it was
41:46
Speaker 1: him and not some other deaths. Here's a little news flash.
41:50
Speaker 1: Women have been grabbing other women's rarians for a really
41:52
Speaker 1: long time. Okay, it's not something new, but just so
41:56
Speaker 1: you know, that gives you something fun to think about.
41:59
Speaker 1: Jason Ocean, Well, it's also no different when a woman
42:01
Speaker 1: is pregnant who touches the pregnant woman. Men men, Men
42:04
Speaker 1: are less likely to do that than women. So I
42:08
Speaker 1: don't know whose hand was on there. I don't know
42:10
Speaker 1: in the moment of the photo shooting backstage and the
42:13
Speaker 1: timeline in our own head, I don't know what was
42:16
Speaker 1: going on or what counsel was thinking. But sure you know,
42:20
Speaker 1: as a defense attorney, it's all about reasonable doubt, and
42:23
Speaker 1: that's that's what although in this case it's it's not
42:26
Speaker 1: the same standard because it's not a criminal case. But
42:29
Speaker 1: as we saw with O J. But nonetheless, you gotta
42:32
Speaker 1: work with everything you can to manipulate the jury to
42:35
Speaker 1: your thoughts. You're on first name basis with Oreenthal James
42:38
Speaker 1: Simpson again, I see, okay, you know what, Jason otions
42:42
Speaker 1: That's why I love you because you say things like
42:45
Speaker 1: maybe it was the girlfriend that grabbed Taylor swifzero en
42:49
Speaker 1: or um what was that other thing you said the
42:51
Speaker 1: gap time? See see Alexisy, I would never have thought
42:55
Speaker 1: that it could have been the girlfriend, or probably no
42:58
Speaker 1: reasonable thinking Gerard would think that. But see that's where
43:02
Speaker 1: that's why we have defense attorney's Alexis Torres. And one
43:07
Speaker 1: of the things though about this case is what you
43:08
Speaker 1: were saying, is this guy Mueller has actually said there
43:12
Speaker 1: was somebody else in the maiden greet that is the
43:15
Speaker 1: one that grabbed Taylor's butt, and then it wasn't him
43:17
Speaker 1: and she confused him with this other man. Right, Okay.
43:22
Speaker 1: Jury selection underway as we wait to find out what
43:27
Speaker 1: happens in the Taylor Swift rear in grab trial. Jason Oceans,
43:32
Speaker 1: Alexis tres Chuck, Alan Diuke, Everyone, thank you for being
43:37
Speaker 1: with us, but especially to you for being with us
43:39
Speaker 1: here on serious x M seeking justice. Nancy Grace signing off,
43:45
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,