Latest / Love Conquers Fear / #34: Beyond Biohacking: Health, Consciousness, and Living with Intention — Ben Greenfield

Transcript

#34: Beyond Biohacking: Health, Consciousness, and Living with Intention — Ben Greenfield · Love Conquers Fear

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  The idea of the Matrix or the amount of manipulation that may
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  have occurred in the past to the extent to where we're in a
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  simulation now, I have a difficult time living.
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  Maybe it's because, you know, my background is Christianity.
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  If anything, I think the the simulation that we're in, if you
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  want to call it that is, is that there was an intelligent being
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  that created the universe and planned a whole story for us
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  ahead of time, and we're all living as characters in that
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  story, yet somehow magically have our own free will.
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  I think that's a much more hopeful way to live than to
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  think. We're a bunch of chunks of flesh
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  and blood and very Darwinist manner, just Bertling through
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  space on a rock, trying to see who can survive and make the
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  most kids or money or have the most homes or cars or whatever.
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  And then it's game over. And it's also much more hopeful
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  way to to live compared to thinking that this is all just
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  simulation. Hey everyone, welcome back to
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  Love Conquers Fear. We are back from an amazing trip
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  in Bhutan. Really different model for
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  society. I asked the guide to really
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  describe. He's traveled all over the
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  world, how he would compare Bhutan to other countries, and I
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  think he nailed it, which is the fact that all of the temples in
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  Bhutan, many of which are 400 years old, still are used today.
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  So a lot of places you visit in the world, all throughout
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  Europe, all over the world, are all about what used to be versus
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  what is. And Bhutan is about both.
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  So you have a country of around 700,000 people.
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  It's known as one of the happiest places on earth.
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  And it's very Buddhist and has a monarchy.
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  But the monarchy is extremely humble, lives in one of the
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  smallest homes in the nation. It's not some grand palace.
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  And they're like, this is all we need.
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  And they're very focused on modernizing Bhutan in the South
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  with a new city, but that city is 1, where it's focused on
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  mindfulness at its core. So you've got high tech meeting,
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  mindfulness meeting, deep Buddhist roots, and a very
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  communal atmosphere where people still use all of the ancient
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  temples. And it really provides this,
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  this environment where you can feel the love in the air.
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  You can feel the people really have each other's backs.
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  And it's very interesting, definitely interesting way for
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  me to end the year. I'm actually recording this
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  right now on December 30th. We just got back yesterday and
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  it's one of the case studies in my book that's coming out in
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  2026, Love Conquers Fear with the subtitle of Humanity, AI and
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  the Age of Abundance for All. And the reason I'm highlighting
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  as a case study is a lot of my friends have been asking me,
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  well, what happens when we get to this age of abundance for
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  all? Are we all just going to
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  meditate like people in Bhutan do?
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  And I always say, well, yeah, some of society is going to
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  choose to do that. What's wrong with humanity
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  getting back to a state of play and community as opposed to just
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  being on the constant working treadmill?
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  But that doesn't mean that all of society is going to do that.
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  There's going to be very ambitious people that want to
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  have a Star Trek like future and want to go and visit a quasar
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  and go into a spaceship and help populate another planet with
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  life. And there's a endless universe
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  as far as we know of. If it had a border, that would
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  certainly be very interesting. And so there's just so much to
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  do, and there's no limit to human ambition.
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  But yeah, for some of society, once we hit abundance, they'll
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  live more like the Bhutanese. And there's nothing wrong with
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  that. So it was really neat seeing it.
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  It was both seeing a living time capsule but also seeing, you
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  know, modernization, meeting the past and really honoring the
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  past and community. So very, very interesting way
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  for us to end the year. I think I mentioned that I was
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  writing about Bhutan in my book when my wife came in the office
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  and said, hey, guess what? I just booked a family trip to
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  Bhutan. I thought you might like that.
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  And she actually didn't even know I was writing about it.
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  So it was a great Celestine Prophecy moment.
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  And there were there we went, off we went.
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  The kids loved it too. And we all had a really, really
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  good time. So I'm going to jump right into
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  this episode with my good friend who is in town, Ben Greenfield.
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  Howdy. Yeah.
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  Yeah. It's so good to have you here.
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  Yeah, Bhutan sounds. I don't know if I would survive.
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  My wife makes fun of me because I would probably be really
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  crappy at A at a ceaseless meditative approach to the age
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  of abundance because I can't sit still for more than.
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  Well, our let let me be clear, There's a lot to do in Bhutan.
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  There's a lot to do. I mean, we were very much on the
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  move. You didn't just sit like this
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  the whole. Time.
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  No, no, no, no. I did.
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  I did do some meditation, which is really cool, but there was a
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  lot of hiking involved and it was actually pretty intense
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  because you're at a very high elevation when you when you fly
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  into Bhutan, it's the hardest landing I think of any country.
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  So you land in between two mountains and you're the planes
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  going down and on either side or where people live.
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  So you're actually seeing their homes as sure.
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  It's going down. Probably some kind of intense
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  thermal coming in between two mountains I would imagine.
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  Yes, there's a lot of turbulence on landing.
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  Not not not too much, but but you do have to be a very
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  specialized type of pilot to even to even make the landing.
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  So if you're hiking there for from like an altitude
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  acclamation standpoint, what what type of meters or feet are
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  we talking about? Yeah, it's not.
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  It's not pretty easy. So the hardest hike was actually
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  the last day where we're hiking to Tiger's Nest, which is the
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  most iconic temple and. That's the one in all the
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  photos, right? That's the one in all the
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  photos. Yeah, that's the one when I
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  texted you a photo. Yeah, that was the one I texted
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  you. You you're hiking up a good
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  around 2000 feet and you're already at very high elevation.
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  What's What's the overall elevation?
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  Around 9000. OK.
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  Yeah. It's at about 6000 that your
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  oxygen carrying capacity starts to take a little bit of a hit,
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  like that's where you actually feel the effects.
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  Yeah. So 9000, yeah, yeah.
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  Yeah, I felt. It is drink your beet juice
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  territory. Yeah, it was amazing trip and
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  highly recommended. And it's it's on the bucket
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  list. I mean, I, I talked with you
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  about it a few months ago before your trip, which got me even
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  more interested in, but just, you know, before that hearing
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  about the measurement of gross domestic happiness.
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  Yes, a lot of the unique aspects you were just harping on.
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  Yeah, it's it's definitely a place I want.
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  To go, yeah, yeah. It's interesting you don't
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  notice any of the comparison machine going on really.
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  I didn't see any aspect of that at all.
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  So it's so no like peacocking for social proof is that?
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  Not that I saw, no, no, just just just like people really in
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  community really taking care of each other and.
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  Yeah, it's in stark contrast because because there's Bhutan
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  and then it would be what? Westward of that would be Nepal,
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  right? And then westward of that would
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  be India. So they're very close to to like
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  like the caste system in India. So the social hierarchy, you
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  don't see a lot of that in Bhutan.
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  No, you don't. You know, the caste system
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  really is a product of Hinduism. I don't know.
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  Have you ever read the Bhagavad Gita?
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  No, it's it's phenomenal. And it's not that long.
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  It's it's really it's it's nothing to be intimidated by.
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  I ignorantly was intimidated by it before.
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  I actually just picked it up. It's only.
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  Yeah. Takes about 2 1/2 hours to read,
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  but it does start out with with the caste system and the whole
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  Bhagavad Gita is so divine. Such a beautiful read.
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  It's A and it's a great setup. It's a conversation between
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  Krishna and Arjuna, and Arjuna and Krishna are in the center of
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  a battlefield where time stops. And Arjun is looking across the
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  battlefield thinking, wow, so many family members are about to
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  die. He's got family on this side of
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  the battlefield, too. And he's just lamenting, like,
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  how did we, how did we end up in this place?
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  And Krishna becomes an embodiment of God, and Arjuna
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  gets to ask any question about how everything in the universe
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  works to Krishna. So it's a great conversation
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  between the two and the only part of it that I reject, the
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  only part that really felt wrong was the caste system that every
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  everything else like synced with all of the other religious
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  texts. So is the entire book dialogue
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  between those two? Yes.
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  Wow, Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, the entire Bhagavad Gita.
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  Alright, well, it's about 2 1/2 hours Austin up to Denver, which
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  I think is my connecting flight on Sunday.
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  So yeah, might be able to might be able to pull.
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  It up, yeah, yeah, you really should.
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  And you get the Stephen Mitchell translated version OK cuz his
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  his voice is so beautiful and it I highly recommend it.
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  On the you mean the audio version?
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  Yeah, OK, yeah, cuz that way you you can just tear the die line
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  back and forth. It's really, really cool.
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  Done. I'll make it happen.
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  Yeah, So, gosh, it's it's a real honor to have you on the
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  podcast. You've been podcasting for 19
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  years. Too long.
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  Yeah. Back when podcasting was in its
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  early, early ages, like submitting your feed to Apple
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  and waiting typically a couple weeks for your RSS feed to get
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  accepted, right? It breaking frequently, you
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  know, I, you have to go to one of the, the feed reader websites
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  and work that out. If the MB file is, is of a
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  certain volume. And there was like maybe maybe
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  four or five help podcasts, right?
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  Which is right in each. So yeah, I got in pretty early.
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  It was just like me and I was I was actually using the the
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  camera on my computer. And so the first year I did the
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  their video and they were just me with a few research journals
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  dissecting them and making them palatable to the general
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  audience in the health and fitness world.
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  And then eventually I got sick of the video, you know, hair and
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  makeup, pants, everything that that video requires.
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  Switched to audio and did audio interviews, audio podcasting for
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  like the next decade. And eventually my team convinced
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  me I had to do video again. So I'm back to video.
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  But yeah, I've, I've seen, it's kind of like blogging, right?
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  It started off and then got super saturated and podcasting
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  kind of kind of took the same route.
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  Yeah, yeah, I did. Gosh, I probably did my first
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  blogs about that long ago. I've always loved to write and
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  after I finished my exercise Physiology and Bio Mechanics
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  degree at Idaho, I started racing all over the world in
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  Iron Man. So I'm just basically, you know,
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  trekking all sorts of different countries in spandex and getting
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  dropped off with my bike in my wet suit and my running shoes,
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  racing, going to the next spot and riding as I went.
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  And that's how I would pay for a lot of my racing is I would have
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  sponsors and you know, I'd be explaining how to use certain
• 11:24
  energy gels and carb protein mixes and amino acids and
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  electrolytes. And I was kind of like a race
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  car with the with the logos on my on my gear as I'd race.
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  And the website actually still exists.
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  It was Ben greenfieldtry.blogspot.com.
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  And I literally just did like travel writing and race writing
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  for about 6 years before, you know, I put on my my big boy
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  clothes and started doing a little bit more, more research
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  based articles and books. But initially it was just like
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  me and my laptop like whatever in the back of a tuk tuk in
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  Thailand, you know, just hammering away on on travel
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  writing. And that eventually became, you
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  know, my website, the podcast, you know, doing, you know, all
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  the things I do online now. But yeah, it was originally just
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  travel writing. That's cool.
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  Yeah. Blogging.
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  What? What got you into biohacking?
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  I mean, what was the original? Yeah, original Genesis.
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  Yeah, well, I mean, biohacking it, it's like it, it's almost
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  like an abused word now because it can mean so many things.
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  You know, the original biohackers, we're talking like
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  all the way back into the late 70s, they were true cyborgs.
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  Like they would call their bodies wetware.
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  And what they would put onto or into their bodies would be
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  hardware. So you've got like there, there
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  was one company that created a, a compass that would vibrate
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  when you face true north, and that's literally like embedded
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  in the chest region. There were people like Kevin
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  Warwick who inspired a few other people to do like the the
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  magnetic implants in the fingertips for human machine
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  interfacing, you know, coming Tom Cruise and Minority Report,
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  chlorophyll injection in the eyeballs for night vision.
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  And some of the things that that, you know, we still use
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  nowadays in a medical setting, you know, like ear implants for
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  better hearing and things like that.
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  But that those were like the OG Cyborg biohackers, you know,
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  probably the modern day equivalent of that would be
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  something like Neuralink, for example, even though they're
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  also implantable, like a glucose monitor on the back of my arm,
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  which isn't that invasive, but some people might consider that
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  to be biohacking, right? An invasive measurement tool for
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  quantification glucose. And then there's also the
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  fitness side of biohacking kind of separate from like the, the
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  tech entrepreneur side of biohacking.
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  And that would be like the classic bodybuilders who back in
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  the day, before anybody knew what a peptide was, you know,
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  we're doing things like peptides and selective androgen receptor
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  modulators for tweaking hormones and of course, steroids and
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  testosterone and other injectables to allow them to
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  become way bigger than a human being would normally be from a
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  muscular standpoint. And so my initial kind of
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  exposure to biohacking was a little bit more of the latter
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  because starting at age 14, I got super interested in just
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  human performance in general. So at University of Idaho, like
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  I mentioned, I studied a lot of this stuff and at the same time
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  started to dabble before I got into Iron Man in bodybuilding
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  and muscle optimization, lurking on deep dark forums of, you
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  know, all these different websites of the different
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  biologics and materials people would use.
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  And I couldn't afford most of that.
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  I was like a literally a poor college student.
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  I had creatine and many, many cans of tuna fish and the potato
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  steak I could find at Rose Ours. And you know, my wife would
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  laugh at me. Well, I'd mix up, you know, 4
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  tuna fish cans and some relish for lunch and you know, just
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  tons of eggs for breakfast. And I found the whole like human
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  optimization side of things super fascinating though.
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  And when I opened my first gym up in Washington state, I really
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  took a little bit more of like a technical approach to it.
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  So we had one of the first platelet rich plasma machines
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  for joint injection. My partner was a sports medicine
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  doc, so I had a physician on staff and we had high speed
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  video cameras for both underwater and dry land, gate
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  analysis, swim analysis, bike analysis.
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  We had the indirect calorimetry machine, which are now like the
• 15:51
  size of your palm. But back then, you know, massive
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  boxes with a tube and a mask that you wear to measure oxygen
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  consumed, carbon dioxide produced to give you a reading
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  of how many calories you're burning at rest and during
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  exercise. And then what proportion of
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  those carbohydrates, what's fat approximation protein.
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  And so I found and still find a lot of these these toys just
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  absolutely fascinating when it comes to human performance and
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  health optimization. But it started off as an
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  interest in fitness and how can we get more out of the body.
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  And now if you look at biohacking, which is technically
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  the use of technology and self quantification to get the body
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  to do something more efficiently or more quickly than it might be
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  able to do in its native state. We have a lot of those tools.
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  And I would throw like red light, PMF, oxygen, any of these
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  number of tools that a lot of people might see used quite
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  frequently like the longevity and anti aging sectors as being
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  one version of biohacking. And then there's like putting
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  collagen in your lasagna is also biohacking, right?
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  So so the the term is pretty broad, but my interest in it was
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  originally just basically based on how can you get the most out
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  of the human machine from a performance and recovery
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  standpoint. As you look at the long arc of
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  it over the past couple of decades, what do you see as the
• 17:19
  huge milestones for the movement that have actually been durable?
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  I think probably the rise back to podcasting and, you know,
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  and, and information dissemination becoming who's so
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  much more widely available and cheap and readily accessible.
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  The rise of what we might call like public health or public
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  science educators in the form of, you know, I would say guys
• 17:43
  like Dave Asprey, He, he was one of the OG guys that.
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  Really made this. He lost an army in.
• 17:48
  Podcasting. He does, Yeah.
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  And you know, he's prolific as far as books, his article, he
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  was one of the original podcasters as well in the space.
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  And now we have really popular people like, you know, Andrew
• 18:01
  Huberman and Brian Johnson. And I mean, even if you look at
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  a lot of the popular doctors or medical podcasts, a lot of them
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  are alluding to different variants of bio lacking as well.
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  You know, guys like Peter Attia, for example.
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  So I think a big part of it has been these voices that are
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  making what seemed pretty fringe back in the day.
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  Like, I don't know, like getting to sleep better by having your
• 18:28
  lights at iview or lower than iview as sunset would have been
• 18:33
  for ancestral humankind and eliminating all blue light
• 18:36
  spectrum from those lights. You would have gotten laughed
• 18:38
  at, right? If you would have told your
• 18:39
  friend at a, you know, at a party, you know, 10 years ago
• 18:42
  that you were doing that to optimize sleep.
• 18:43
  And now it's kind of like, you know, a shrug and oh, yeah, that
• 18:46
  that makes sense. Right, Right.
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  Simulate sunset. All right, well, I've, I've
• 18:49
  heard that 10 times on on all sorts of different podcasts and
• 18:53
  read it in a few New York Times best selling books now.
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  So I would say that that, you know, a lot of these, these
• 18:59
  modern educators have been big, big influences on biohacking no
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  longer being like laying in a medical bed getting chlorophyll
• 19:06
  injected into your eyeballs for night vision.
• 19:09
  Right, right, right. In in terms of the the big, the
• 19:13
  big elements though, just taking care of yourself, it's still
• 19:18
  primarily sleep and diet and exercise, right?
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  The big ones are sleep, movement.
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  I like to say movement, not exercise because I mean, if if
• 19:31
  you look at it, it is a sort of ancestral mismatch, right?
• 19:35
  We, we live in this odd era in which we have 24/7 access to
• 19:41
  hyper palatable foods, but yet we still have the same
• 19:45
  biological evolutionary mechanisms of calorie
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  conservation, right? Our bodies want to stock away
• 19:50
  calories in case there's a, there's a famine or some other
• 19:53
  epic scenario that we have to survive.
• 19:55
  And so we fabricate these boxes that we go into to pick things
• 20:01
  up and set them down multiple times and, you know, and walk
• 20:03
  without getting anywhere. And that's, that's formal
• 20:07
  exercise. But the reason I say movement is
• 20:09
  I like to try to convince people to just fabricate their entire
• 20:12
  lives to be movers rather than feeling like, well, you know, to
• 20:16
  to burn calories, you have to go into a special, you know, box be
• 20:19
  a movement. Sleep, nutrition, Those would be
• 20:26
  the biggies that are apparent. But then if you look at, for
• 20:29
  example, Harvard's longest running study on longevity,
• 20:32
  which started back in the 30s with a group of men and you'll
• 20:36
  follow them through life. Once isolating for all
• 20:38
  confounding variables, including sleep and movement and food, the
• 20:42
  number one factor most associated with longevity was
• 20:45
  the extent of meaningful relationships and love in your
• 20:49
  life. Yeah.
• 20:50
  I mean, one of the one of the things that Deborah and I love
• 20:52
  to do is just start out every good morning with a long walk in
• 20:55
  the neighborhood. Hopefully you can get.
• 20:57
  My wife's silos doing that every morning since since we've been
• 21:00
  here. Yeah, just hitting the hills and
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  there's nothing like high, it's not high strain, but it's just a
• 21:08
  great time to catch up and and you do get the heart rate up.
• 21:11
  Yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 21:12
  I mean, it's, it's, yeah. The the, the undulation is good
• 21:16
  for kind of scattering the stimulus across multiple muscle
• 21:22
  groups and also getting the heart rate up and down.
• 21:24
  It's kind of built in interval training.
• 21:26
  And yeah, I mean, the spirituality piece of course is
• 21:29
  part of the relationships piece, right?
• 21:31
  Because relationships is relationships with others and
• 21:34
  relationships with your relationship with God.
• 21:37
  And so those two feed on each other pretty well also.
• 21:39
  Yeah. But those would be the biggies
• 21:41
  that are like the core foundational principles that of
• 21:45
  course are, I would say, far more important than any biohack.
• 21:48
  Yeah. Do you do you feel like humanity
• 21:52
  has evolved pretty well with this knowledge to live healthier
• 21:56
  lives or are we still learning that?
• 21:59
  Like it's, it's it's kind of confounding, right.
• 22:01
  Because because the, the the data, you know, like Jason Karp
• 22:05
  was on was in the podcast and we were at that beautiful wedding,
• 22:09
  Lincoln and Julie's wedding. Yeah, Jason, on Episode 3, He
• 22:13
  was, he was pretty, you know, honest about the fact that
• 22:19
  American health has been kind of declining.
• 22:23
  But it's so it's kind of a weird time because like our knowledge
• 22:26
  has never been higher in terms of how to be healthy and how to
• 22:30
  be happy, but yet there's kind of a downturn, yeah, in terms of
• 22:35
  our longevity. I think that from a
• 22:38
  psychological standpoint, it's very easy to engage in massive
• 22:41
  amounts of information consumption without application,
• 22:44
  right? I mean, that's a big part of it.
• 22:47
  And I think that there's also potential for a lot of confusion
• 22:51
  and lack of clarity, which I think is almost paralytic for a
• 22:53
  lot of people. You know, back to the, the
• 22:56
  public health educators, there's a lot of information out there
• 22:58
  and a lot of it frankly is monetizable and easily prone to
• 23:03
  bias. So people get the, you know,
• 23:05
  keto and the carnivore and the vegan and the high Rep, low
• 23:09
  weight, high weight, low Rep and all sorts of different
• 23:11
  principles thrown at them and you can get paralysis by
• 23:13
  analysis. It is interesting though.
• 23:16
  There's almost like this fringe of very, very healthy people who
• 23:20
  are seemingly almost obsessed with longevity and anti aging
• 23:25
  and biohacking and just general human optimization.
• 23:30
  But as a whole, I think we we're still struggling as a country
• 23:35
  and, and I think possibly even as a world just because of, you
• 23:39
  know, back to what I mentioned earlier, the ancestral mismatch,
• 23:45
  right? The idea that we live in an era
• 23:47
  in which we've got the same old biology that we've had for a
• 23:50
  very long time. But now that biology is not only
• 23:57
  not exposed to a very, very high amount of readily accessible
• 24:01
  calories, but also all the blessings of the post industrial
• 24:05
  era in which we are able to make money and fulfill Maslow's
• 24:11
  hierarchy generally without needing to move as much, right.
• 24:14
  So we've got sedentary positions, we've got a host of
• 24:18
  toxins in the chemical soup that we're in that we have no way
• 24:21
  biologically evolved to deal with.
• 24:24
  I mean all the way down to just like the electrical soup that we
• 24:27
  live in. When we are exposed to that
• 24:29
  amount of electrical pollution, there is an up regulation of
• 24:33
  calcium influx into the cells via these multitage gated
• 24:36
  calcium channels. When your cells are in a state
• 24:39
  of like constant mild polarization like that, you
• 24:43
  essentially have an electrochemical gradient that is
• 24:47
  keeping the cell in a mild state of activation, mild state of
• 24:50
  like sympathetic nervous system fight or flight activation.
• 24:54
  And we're, you know, human beings, of course, we've always
• 24:57
  been stressed out in some way, right?
• 24:59
  Like we've, we've traded the, the diseases of our ancestors
• 25:05
  for diseases of modernity. So whereas in the past we would
• 25:08
  have struggled with famine or, or disease or, you know, being
• 25:14
  eaten by whatever the Saber tooth tiger chased by a Viking
• 25:19
  invader, you know, now we've got obesity and diabetes and, you
• 25:25
  know, being chased by microplastic invaders, right?
• 25:28
  So it's a whole different set of issues that we struggle with,
• 25:32
  but we, we, we really are not able to deal with a lot of these
• 25:38
  issues of modernity that effectively yet, I don't think.
• 25:42
  And, and, and part of that is just education, right?
• 25:44
  It's changing our environment and it's changing our eating
• 25:46
  habits and it's changing our movement habits.
• 25:49
  And that's difficult when it is easy to just sit and make money
• 25:52
  and open the refrigerator and get food and rinse, wash and
• 25:55
  repeat. Yeah.
• 25:55
  And in terms of your own views, I mean, I was reading that that
• 26:00
  you've moderated quite a bit over time from more extreme
• 26:04
  diets to right. So how how would you describe
• 26:07
  those? And, and, and, and specifically,
• 26:09
  you know, for people listening to this, what would you, what
• 26:12
  would you? Yeah, Like here's what really.
• 26:14
  Yeah. Rashina.
• 26:14
  I'll give you 2 examples. So of course, you know, as I
• 26:19
  alluded to after, you know, racing Iron Man for so long and
• 26:22
  being in the bodybuilding industry, you know, after Iron
• 26:25
  Man, I raced for four years professionally in in Spartan and
• 26:29
  obstacle course racing. I would definitely classify
• 26:33
  myself as an over exerciser. And of course, I would never
• 26:37
  want to make people feel guilty about moving.
• 26:41
  But This is why it's also important to draw a distinction
• 26:43
  between exercise and movement. If you look at the most up to
• 26:52
  What that means is that but once you exceed about 75 minutes of
• 26:58
  vigorous intensity exercise per week and about 150 per week of
• 27:02
  moderate intensity exercise per week.
• 27:05
  OK. You see an increase in arterial
• 27:07
  stiffness and in atherosclerosis, probably
• 27:11
  because of the inflammatory cascade that results in a
• 27:16
  cholesterol being more prone to plaque deposition in coronary
• 27:19
  tissue. That might seem like not very
• 27:22
  much time to a lot of people, but you of course have to define
• 27:25
  terms. So when I say vigorous exercise,
• 27:28
  this means like lung sucking, smoke coming out of your ears,
• 27:31
  the taste of blood in your mouth, you know, the typical
• 27:33
  CrossFit workout. And frankly, there are some
• 27:36
  people still doing like 4 to 5 CrossFit workouts a week or the
• 27:39
  water, you know, 45 or whatever it's called, you know, these
• 27:43
  different high intensity interval training routines,
• 27:46
  which once you exceed about 75 minutes per week of that results
• 27:49
  in increased risk of mortality, not decreased.
• 27:52
  And then the 150 minutes of moderate intensity exercise.
• 27:56
  This is also important to define because there's this this term
• 28:02
  that a lot of people are using or familiar with now called zone
• 28:04
  2 cardio. You've probably heard of it.
• 28:07
  It's basically this idea that if you exercise in your aerobic
• 28:09
  zone right, you're not creating enough damage and inflammation
• 28:13
  that you can't recover from the exercise session, but you're
• 28:16
  still getting a good improvement in stimulation of new
• 28:19
  mitochondria, burning some calories, increasing VO2 Max,
• 28:23
  increasing overall cardiovascular fitness.
• 28:26
  Zone 2 is not what I would consider to be part of that
• 28:29
  modern intensity 150 minute limit of moderate exercise.
• 28:33
  The 150 minute moderate exercise would be like the frowny face
• 28:38
  person you pass on The Walking path in the morning who's
• 28:40
  training for a marathon every single morning.
• 28:42
  Or the person is just like jamming at a pretty high heart
• 28:45
  rate on the elliptical trainer for 45 minutes a day at the gym.
• 28:49
  This would be above the aerobic zone and it kind of getting into
• 28:54
  mild anaerobic territory, right? The lungs are burning, You're
• 28:57
  not quite all out vigorous, but it's still pretty hard.
• 29:00
  Anybody who's trained for a triathlon or a marathon or, you
• 29:04
  know, or a half marathon or a cycling race or anything like
• 29:07
  that crosses over that 150 minutes pretty frequently.
• 29:13
  And zone 2 would not count for that.
• 29:15
  So when I'm, I probably walk about 15,000 steps a day on my
• 29:18
  treadmill and it's all with my Bluetooth remote on my computer
• 29:22
  reviewing slides or reading articles or talking on the phone
• 29:25
  or doing a Zoom call or sometimes even podcasting.
• 29:28
  All of that is fine, right? That's super low intensity,
• 29:32
  super low intensity. And it's, it's very similar to
• 29:34
  what our ancestors might have experienced while hunting,
• 29:36
  gathering, foraging. You know, some people like,
• 29:40
  well, you hunt for, you know, 8 hours a day when you go hunting.
• 29:42
  That's ancestral. How come our ancestors weren't
• 29:44
  dying of atherosclerosis from, from hunting?
• 29:48
  Anybody who's hunting, I'm a bow hunter knows that it's, it's
• 29:52
  very infrequent bouts of like sprinting up a hill really
• 29:55
  quickly or crawling under a log or over a log.
• 29:57
  And then most of the rest of it is walking really, really slowly
• 30:01
  with a little bit of a load and then sitting for long periods of
• 30:04
  time in between. You know, the same for gardening
• 30:06
  or foraging or anything else. So training for a marathon is
• 30:10
  not the equivalent of our ancestors hunting walking on
• 30:14
  your treadmill while you're working.
• 30:16
  Maybe a little bit more. So coming full circle, as I
• 30:23
  learned about this research on the law of diminishing return of
• 30:26
  the Goldilocks zone of exercise, I've adjusted quite a bit.
• 30:30
  A lot of what I do is short, brief bursts of sprinting,
• 30:35
  lifting heavy things every once in a while, and walking and
• 30:39
  moving a lot, just staying on my feet a lot, sitting to eat,
• 30:44
  sitting on an airplane, sitting occasionally for a podcast, and
• 30:47
  besides that, just moving the body.
• 30:51
  And if the way I like to think about this is you should
• 30:56
  fabricate your day and modify your office in such a manner
• 31:01
  that hitting the gym at the beginning or the end of the day
• 31:04
  is an option, not a necessity. And that might be if you pull up
• 31:08
  bars sprinkled in doorways around the house and a
• 31:10
  kettlebell on the floor of the office and a walking treadmill.
• 31:14
  And it's kind of like looking at life through this lens of not
• 31:17
  needing the gym to actually stay fit and instead fabricating your
• 31:21
  life in such a way that that you can be fit.
• 31:24
  So that's one one big modification for me is the
• 31:27
  realization that more is not better when it comes to exercise
• 31:30
  and more intensity is not better when it comes to exercise.
• 31:33
  And you should just move at a low intensity throughout the day
• 31:36
  and occasionally push. Another example would be, and I
• 31:40
  think a lot of people have probably also heard this, you
• 31:44
  know, the whole idea that glucose and carbohydrates are
• 31:47
  really, really bad. And there's a lot of people that
• 31:50
  are carb phobic because of that. And I was a huge part of the
• 31:54
  whole ketogenic movement back in the day.
• 31:56
  I mean, all the way down to where, you know, I, I was one of
• 32:01
  the athletes who was in the test that kind of rewrote the
• 32:05
  Physiology textbooks on carbon fat utilization, meaning that
• 32:10
  University of Connecticut, they did this study where they took,
• 32:14
  and this is not just applicable to athletes, this is applicable
• 32:16
  to everybody listening. They took a group of athletes
• 32:20
  and have them follow a standard carbohydrate enriched, you know,
• 32:23
  whatever the Gatorade Sports Science Institute in the FDA
• 32:26
  recommends for average carbohydrate intake, which is
• 32:29
  generally around 50 to 80% depending on on which rule
• 32:33
  you're following. But high amount of
• 32:34
  carbohydrates, the whole idea of like eat, eat a diet with the
• 32:38
  base of the food pyramid being lots of whole grains and rice
• 32:41
  and pasta. And then they had another group
• 32:44
  of athletes follow much more low carbon, arguably ketogenic diet.
• 32:50
  So restriction of carbohydrates to the extent to where you're
• 32:53
  burning so much fat that you're not only burning fat as a fuel,
• 32:56
  but you're generating ketone bodies as a byproduct of that.
• 32:59
  And these are very stable fuel for the brain, the heart, the
• 33:02
  liver, the diaphragm, so much that in fact, and someone with a
• 33:05
  neurological disorder, let's say like epilepsy for example, those
• 33:11
  individuals respond very well to a ketogenic approach just
• 33:14
  because it's such a stable fuel. And there is far less oxidation,
• 33:19
  especially in neural tissue when you're burning ketones instead
• 33:22
  of glucose. The group of athletes who
• 33:27
  followed the ketogenic low carb diet and the other group of
• 33:32
  athletes, we all went to the lab after about a year and they had
• 33:35
  us go through a battery of tests.
• 33:37
  You know the guillotine like needles that went into the quads
• 33:41
  to take out muscle tissue. So basically muscle biopsy, fat
• 33:44
  biopsy, VO2 Max test, 3 hours of running on a treadmill while
• 33:49
  staring at a white wall in a lab with a mask on your face and a
• 33:51
  needle out of your arm. Long story short is that the
• 33:54
  people who followed the carbohydrate restricted diet, we
• 33:58
  wound up burning an average of 1.5 grams of fat per minute
• 34:03
  during exercise. Up to that point it was thought
• 34:05
  about the maximum you could burn during exercise with about 1g of
• 34:09
  fat per minute. So this prove that you could
• 34:13
  literally turn the body into a fat burning machine based on the
• 34:17
  fuel substrate that you gave the body.
• 34:19
  So that the the idea is that the human body has a great deal of
• 34:23
  plasticity. It will adapt to the
• 34:25
  macronutrient that you give it. And if you give it a high amount
• 34:28
  of fats versus carbohydrates, it learns how to burn fats
• 34:30
  efficiently. And from a health standpoint,
• 34:32
  that would be important because you've got less glycemic
• 34:36
  variability, less surges in blood glucose during the day.
• 34:39
  And by controlling blood glucose surges during the day, you have
• 34:42
  more stable energy levels, lower amounts of inflammation,
• 34:45
  cholesterol becomes less prone to oxidation, and you just
• 34:48
  become more metabolically efficient.
• 34:50
  So after. And it's the right types of
• 34:53
  answer. The right types yeah, we're
• 34:55
  we're not we're not talking about I I assume super sized
• 34:58
  meal throw away the buns a. Lot, a lot of avocado stuff.
• 35:01
  Yeah, like healthy Mediterranean style fats, not a high amount of
• 35:05
  processed fats, definitely not a lot of heated seed oils.
• 35:09
  And it it makes sense that that would be a stable source of
• 35:14
  fuel. And the issue is, and this
• 35:18
  happens a lot in the nutrition world is is if you go for the
• 35:20
  baby talk, you know, yes, no black, white, all or nothing
• 35:24
  type of approach, you can end up doing harm to the body.
• 35:27
  So even though you know, I and many others would have very
• 35:31
  stable energy levels on this ketogenic low carb diet, if you
• 35:36
  restrict glucose long term, and especially if you're a
• 35:38
  physically active person, restricting carbohydrates to
• 35:40
  like 10% of your total dietary intake, what happens is you can
• 35:45
  get thyroid dysregulation because you need a certain
• 35:47
  amount of glucose. It's almost like sending your
• 35:50
  body a little bit of a starvation signal.
• 35:52
  So I experienced this basically the equivalent of
• 35:54
  hypothyroidism, like very, very high thyroid stimulating
• 35:57
  hormone, which meant my brain was trying to send a message to
• 36:01
  my thyroid gland to make more thyroid and I just didn't have
• 36:03
  enough carbohydrates to go around.
• 36:06
  Basically hypogonadism, very, very low amounts of
• 36:08
  testosterone, joint pain because of not enough glucose being
• 36:12
  present for what's called the proteoglycan foundation of the
• 36:15
  joints and general levels of like low mood, lethargy, poor
• 36:22
  sleep because carbohydrates are used for serotonin, which can
• 36:25
  get converted into melatonin. And so this idea of like, you
• 36:31
  know, running away from carbohydrates and really
• 36:34
  restricting carbohydrates and, you know, putting on your, your
• 36:40
  what's, what's the thing that they give to dog your muzzle
• 36:43
  when you walk past an Italian restaurant, it turns out that
• 36:47
  that's really not good good for you long term.
• 36:50
  And so another example of the change that I've made is I'm
• 36:54
  pretty, pretty flexible now when it comes to dieting.
• 36:57
  I'm aware of the the amount of carbohydrates that I eat.
• 37:00
  I wear this blood glucose monitor to keep track of how
• 37:02
  much my blood glucose is going up and down.
• 37:05
  But what I do now is I, I don't eat that much sugar or that many
• 37:08
  carbohydrates most of the day. And then at the end of the day,
• 37:11
  I pretty much eat carbs ad labetum.
• 37:13
  It stocks away muscle and liver glycogen for the next day, gives
• 37:16
  your thyroid gland what it needs.
• 37:18
  So you see up in testosterone, you see better sleep because you
• 37:20
  get more serotonin and you know that that's another thing that
• 37:25
  that I've definitely changed. Like the those are two examples
• 37:28
  over exercising and excessive restriction of carbohydrates are
• 37:32
  two things that I think a lot of people still might be tempted or
• 37:34
  prone to do if they're in the health optimization field.
• 37:37
  There's a lot more to the story than than just exercising a lot
• 37:41
  and not eating carbs. Yeah, I think it, I mean,
• 37:43
  correct me if I'm wrong on this because you would by far and
• 37:47
  away be the expert on it, but but it it also depends on the
• 37:50
  types of carbohydrates. Because I remember that
• 37:52
  documentary. Fed up.
• 37:54
  Oh yeah, documentary. Oh my gosh, that was that
• 37:57
  documentary for me was so madding because it was really
• 38:02
  like, as an American public, we were manipulated into thinking
• 38:07
  that it was all about low fat, right?
• 38:10
  And they just jacked up our foods with tons and tons of
• 38:14
  sugars. Right.
• 38:16
  Tons of sugars in the wrong kinds of fats.
• 38:18
  Yeah, you're right. The the type of carbohydrate
• 38:21
  matters. You know, the idea that certain
• 38:24
  carbohydrates are broken down more slowly and cause a more
• 38:28
  stable glucose response is a thing, you know, and, and slow
• 38:32
  carbohydrates that are higher in fiber, you know, let's say like
• 38:36
  oatmeal versus white potato or something like that.
• 38:39
  There is a difference and there's a difference and this is
• 38:42
  important too. This is a big, big part of the
• 38:46
  whole nutrition world. The idea of biochemical
• 38:48
  individuality, meaning that base when we have different sizes of
• 38:52
  our pancreas and our stomach and our spleen and our liver and
• 38:54
  different vitamin D excretion rates and, and a host of
• 38:59
  different needs and, and tendencies based on largely our
• 39:03
  genetics. And there was a fascinating
• 39:05
  study done several years ago in which they found very
• 39:09
  individualized blood glucose responses to the consumption of,
• 39:12
  of bananas and cookies. This was, I think it was called
• 39:14
  the day 2 experiment. And it turned out this, this was
• 39:17
  all based on the bacterial composition of the gut.
• 39:20
  And This is why there were certain bacterial strains now
• 39:23
  being sold for appetite control or blood glucose regulation.
• 39:27
  Like an example would be Acromancia, right?
• 39:30
  That's that's advertised as like a GLP one like probiotic because
• 39:34
  of the satiety that it can induce.
• 39:36
  And other probiotics will have like a blood glucose stabilizing
• 39:39
  effect. And all that's just based on on
• 39:41
  treating the Biome to change and thus altering the way that you
• 39:46
  metabolize carbohydrates. If it's so individualized,
• 39:49
  though, I think that's that makes a pretty good case for
• 39:53
  self quantifying as much as you're able to write.
• 39:56
  Like the blood glucose monitor used to have to get a
• 39:58
  prescription for it based on, you know, having a having
• 40:02
  diabetes or some sort of blood glucose dysregulation.
• 40:06
  Now you can just get a blood glucose monitor, wear it.
• 40:08
  See what your personal adaptation of carbohydrates is,
• 40:10
  your personal response to carbohydrates is.
• 40:13
  And when I wear this. I payless attention to the
• 40:18
  average blood glucose during the day, meaning I don't freak out
• 40:22
  too much whether it's 85 or 90 or 95, for example.
• 40:26
  And I pay more attention to two things.
• 40:28
  One, how often is a blood glucose fluctuating during the
• 40:31
  day? So it's called the glycemic
• 40:33
  variability. And #2 how quickly does it
• 40:36
  return to baseline after eating? That's basically your
• 40:39
  postprandial blood glucose response.
• 40:41
  So if my blood glucose goes up to like 130 after I have a meal,
• 40:46
  I've refer for it to like back down to my resting value, say 90
• 40:50
  within a couple hours after that meal.
• 40:51
  And both of those are pretty good measures of, of, of a good
• 40:55
  amount of metabolic stability when it comes to this whole idea
• 41:01
  of biochemical individuality and self quantification.
• 41:03
  I mean, it's not just glucose that, I mean, there's so many
• 41:06
  other things that will affect this, like back to the, the fat
• 41:09
  thing, right? The ketogenic diet that would
• 41:11
  have helped your neighbor lose 10 lbs might be highly
• 41:15
  inflammatory for you or undigestible for you because of
• 41:20
  liver and gallbladder bile production or the apple E gene
• 41:24
  that might predispose you to a dementia like condition from
• 41:27
  high intake of saturated fats. Or the vitamin D supplement, you
• 41:31
  know, that's that's just working wonderfully for a whole bunch of
• 41:34
  people might be toxic or at least pull calcium into your
• 41:38
  vasculature for you because you have low vitamin D excretion
• 41:42
  rates, right? And so if you can, do you know
• 41:45
  some kind of genetic test, blood tests, preferably like a, like a
• 41:48
  stool test to look at your microbiome, salivary hormone
• 41:52
  analysis or urinary hormone analysis and a decent testing of
• 41:57
  like your immune response to different foods.
• 41:59
  You've then got like a pile of data and you can step back and
• 42:02
  look at that and say, OK, so this is how I should eat.
• 42:04
  This is how I should supplement in many cases, this is how I
• 42:07
  should train. And so it's pretty easy to it's
• 42:11
  much, much easier now than it would have been 20 years ago, to
• 42:14
  be pretty precise, without spending too much money on on
• 42:17
  your training and your diet. How, how do you kind of
• 42:19
  operationalize your knowledge, which is vast at this point?
• 42:23
  I mean, you've been at it for for so long with your own
• 42:26
  family, like with your sons and yeah, with your, with your wife,
• 42:31
  yeah. There's there's certainly truth
• 42:34
  to to the saying that the shoemaker's wife wears no shoes.
• 42:38
  My wife. Your wife is in incredible shape
• 42:40
  though. Yeah.
• 42:41
  She's a great she's, she's like Nash.
• 42:42
  She's, you know, she's got like the hardcore lean, mean Montana
• 42:46
  rancher jeans. And she grew up as an athlete,
• 42:48
  you know, ran track and field and ran the 800 and 1500
• 42:51
  arguably 2 pretty painful races. So her just her threshold for
• 42:56
  exercise is pretty high. And also just by the nature of
• 43:02
  her growing up, like on a farm, you know, once once her family
• 43:05
  moved from Montana on a farm in Idaho, you know, she, you know,
• 43:08
  makes clothes and furniture from scratch and, and, you know,
• 43:11
  she's, she's a real, real homemaker and and a tough
• 43:14
  cookie. Yet if I start talking about
• 43:18
  anything related, like, you know, hormone optimization or
• 43:21
  babe, you should look into whatever progesterone, you know,
• 43:24
  or anything like that. I usually need to leave a good
• 43:28
  book out that she checks out or connect her with a friend who
• 43:33
  she'll actually listen to. So you know, I.
• 43:36
  I try not to bug my wife too much about health, but
• 43:39
  occasionally she's interested in something I'm doing and go along
• 43:42
  for the ride. My.
• 43:44
  Son's wise husband. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 43:47
  My sons, they, there's certain things that I knew would be good
• 43:52
  for them that I pushed them into at an early age.
• 43:56
  Cold exposure was one, like they were just out in the ice in the
• 44:00
  cold doing plunges with dad when they were three years old.
• 44:02
  Which is great because I think if a young human grows up with a
• 44:06
  pretty good ability to handle thermal stress, they've got
• 44:09
  advantage psychologically because you, you learn to deal
• 44:13
  with that through breath and through mental reframing.
• 44:16
  Same thing with the sauna. I mean, when they were six years
• 44:19
  old, we were doing hour long, nearly holotropic breath work
• 44:22
  sessions in the sauna and I would keep a pretty close eye on
• 44:25
  them, look at their skin coloration and you know how they
• 44:27
  were dealing with it and make sure they were well hydrated.
• 44:30
  We did a lot of thermal stress, a lot of training with strangely
• 44:35
  shaped weights like kettle bells, sandbags, each other,
• 44:39
  just helping them learn how to move unwieldy objects just to
• 44:43
  develop a little bit of what we might call like farmer strength.
• 44:47
  We taught them how to cook with random ingredients that we'd
• 44:51
  find around the kitchen, basically the equivalent of
• 44:53
  cooking from scratch at an early age, you know, starting with
• 44:56
  scrambled eggs and moving on to, you know, helping mom and dad
• 44:58
  with roast chicken and steak and salads.
• 45:00
  And now every night at our house, you know, everybody's
• 45:03
  contributing to dinner. And they've got a healthy
• 45:05
  relationship with like what real whole food that's unprocessed
• 45:09
  actually looks like because they grew up cooking.
• 45:12
  And then a lot of nature time. I mean, they've, they've been
• 45:14
  going to wilderness survival school since they were six years
• 45:17
  old. And our mentors of that school,
• 45:19
  they've both done a 10 day vision quest out in the North
• 45:22
  Idaho wilderness, three day rite of passage.
• 45:25
  When they went from childhood into adolescence, they studied
• 45:29
  the Kamana course, which is basically bird language, animal
• 45:32
  tracking, nature immersion. And so I think that the big ones
• 45:38
  that we implemented with them intentionally from a pretty
• 45:44
  early age were thermal stress, lifting weird things, being
• 45:47
  outside a lot and having a really healthy relationship with
• 45:50
  food when it comes to the edgier stuff, which would probably be
• 45:55
  like biohacking and supplements, right?
• 45:57
  Those those are two biggies that I get a lot of questions about.
• 45:59
  Like when you put your kids in the red light bed, when do you?
• 46:02
  Yeah, when you test them and get your own personalized
• 46:04
  supplementation protocol. Those are things that I'm a
• 46:08
  little bit more lenient on. Meaning we have all the
• 46:13
  technologies at our house, but I don't push my sons in any of
• 46:16
  that because I they will figure out technology pretty quickly.
• 46:21
  Same reason that we we are, we are late adopters with the
• 46:24
  smartphones and computers and, and focus more on nature
• 46:28
  immersion because we knew that kids would pick that stuff up
• 46:31
  pretty quickly once they got their hands on it.
• 46:34
  So now if my sons get injured playing lacrosse or jiu jitsu or
• 46:39
  tennis or whatever, like they'll jump in the red light bed or
• 46:41
  throw a PMF pad on their shoulder or whatever.
• 46:43
  But we didn't do a lot of that at an early age.
• 46:46
  And then with supplements, the mindset that I think you can
• 46:51
  create in a young person when it comes to the idea that you can
• 46:55
  pop a pill to achieve the goal that you want is something that
• 46:57
  I think you're on a pretty high risk of producing.
• 47:00
  So same thing with supplementation.
• 47:01
  You know, I focus really mostly on whole food for them, with the
• 47:05
  exception that this is controversial a little bit for
• 47:08
  some people, I think. But I, I don't look on genetic
• 47:12
  testing is like a doom scroll of all the things that you're going
• 47:15
  to die from, but rather as knowledge that you can empower
• 47:17
  yourself with, of certain tendencies that you have that
• 47:20
  you might be able to, to patch up a little bit with targeted
• 47:25
  supplementation or lifestyle adjustments.
• 47:27
  So they both have really, really sluggish glutathione production
• 47:34
  pathways and a high propensity for not being able to deal with
• 47:39
  toxins very well. And they're both of it, like if
• 47:41
  they walk into a room that's been painted, for example, like
• 47:44
  they both notice it super duper fast.
• 47:46
  Did they pick up on chemicals really quickly, almost like a
• 47:48
  Canary in a coal mine. So they both take glutathione.
• 47:51
  Another example would be they and I have this to naturally
• 47:55
  produce low levels of brain derived neurotropic factor,
• 47:59
  which is important for for neuronal growth.
• 48:01
  So they they take lion's mane mushroom extract, they do the
• 48:04
  sauna, they do aerobic exercise, some of the things that help
• 48:07
  with BDNF. And the last one that they've
• 48:11
  done, and these are all since they were about 10, is they have
• 48:16
  inefficient pathways for creating vitamin D from exposure
• 48:20
  to sunlight. So they also supplement with
• 48:22
  vitamin D. So there's a few choice
• 48:24
  supplements that they do just based on genetics, but they're
• 48:27
  not, you know, like taking, you know, massive amounts of like,
• 48:30
  muscle building supplements, right, and multivitamins and
• 48:32
  things like that. So.
• 48:34
  So yeah, a lot of the knowledge, we just, you know, mom and I try
• 48:37
  to be a good example and things get passed down organically to
• 48:40
  them. But those are some of the things
• 48:41
  we actually focused on intentionally.
• 48:43
  Yeah. What, what do you think about
• 48:45
  the GLP One movement? I mean, it's such a, it's such a
• 48:48
  big business. Right.
• 48:51
  And this is something that I think especially in in the world
• 48:57
  of fitness, there's a lot of pushback on.
• 49:00
  It's like, well, it's, it's kind of testosterone.
• 49:02
  It's like I'm working so hard. How is it that you could just,
• 49:07
  you know, smear a little testosterone cream on your
• 49:09
  scrotum and get just as big muscles as I have with me going
• 49:12
  to the gym, you know, an hour a day or, you know, I'm working so
• 49:17
  hard not to not not to overeat calories.
• 49:21
  And yet you're injecting this GOP one and now all of a sudden
• 49:24
  you're losing more weight than me.
• 49:25
  And it seems we like to think that blood, sweat and tears are
• 49:29
  how you actually get what you want.
• 49:31
  And it seems unfair. You can use better living
• 49:33
  through science to get some of these goals.
• 49:35
  That being said, with GLPS if you look at will be called the
• 49:40
  pleiotropic like the system wide effects of a GLP, whether it's
• 49:45
  you know that they have some now that act on well Reddit.
• 49:48
  True tide is is 3 different pathways, GLP, ghrelin and one
• 49:53
  other. Tirzepatide is two different
• 49:55
  pathways. Some of the early ones were one
• 49:57
  pathway, but even the earlier ones you see decrease in neural
• 50:03
  inflammation, you see improvements in appetite
• 50:07
  control. You see a really big impact on
• 50:11
  lipids like dropping triglycerides, in some cases
• 50:13
  dropping Apple B and LP little A, sometimes dropping LDL.
• 50:17
  So there are a lot of things downstream that happened with
• 50:22
  these GLPS that I think make them a pretty intriguing
• 50:28
  compound for like a general system wide approach to
• 50:31
  metabolic longevity or metabolic health in general.
• 50:34
  The issue is that if you go to your doctor and you get a
• 50:38
  prescription for GLP, you're getting a pre loaded pen with a
• 50:41
  pre loaded dose. And that pre loaded dose is in
• 50:44
  my opinion too high. Shuts down appetite in in.
• 50:48
  Have you ever taken a GLP? I haven't.
• 50:50
  No, no. I tried.
• 50:52
  But I, I I do have friends that have had a pretty radical
• 50:57
  change. Yeah.
• 50:58
  Like, like people that just were chronically overweight for as
• 51:01
  long as I've known them. Yeah.
• 51:03
  And now they've got a new lease on life.
• 51:06
  Yeah. It shuts down food.
• 51:07
  Noise. I have seen some friends though
• 51:09
  that have done it and then bounced back.
• 51:12
  Yeah, to high weight. That's an issue with AS.
• 51:15
  Soon as they stop. Especially the higher doses.
• 51:18
  So when you inject a standard dose of AGLP, you become
• 51:24
  basically like nauseous around food.
• 51:27
  Even a lot of your favorite foods you simply don't want to
• 51:30
  eat, period. And then you hear the general
• 51:33
  advice that, well, if you're going to take a GOP, make sure
• 51:35
  you eat adequate protein, make sure you hit the weights.
• 51:38
  It's one thing to say that. It's another thing to sit down
• 51:40
  to like the the juiciest, best, you know, cut of rib eye ever
• 51:44
  and just not want to touch it or make your favorite whatever, you
• 51:47
  know, peanut butter chocolate, Reese's peanut butter cup, whey
• 51:49
  protein smoothie. And you sit down.
• 51:50
  He's like, don't want to drink any of it.
• 51:54
  And then you go to the gym and you feel super flat because you
• 51:57
  don't make calories. You know the energy and it
• 51:59
  creates this negative feedback loop.
• 52:01
  And when you pair that with the slowing of gastric motility once
• 52:06
  you got Constipation, typically some gastric inflammation, you
• 52:09
  see a loss of muscle tissue, you see a loss of cardiac tissue,
• 52:12
  which is obviously not that great for overall longevity.
• 52:15
  There are a host of issues with the standard dose of AGLP to
• 52:18
  where I am not a fan of that. But if you can work with a
• 52:22
  compounding pharmacist and even though this is, this is on the
• 52:27
  the fringes of risk, depending on where you get AGLP, even like
• 52:31
  getting one of these like sold for human research only, you
• 52:34
  know, peptide company's version of AGLP.
• 52:36
  And you inject about 110th of a standard dose of micro dose of
• 52:40
  AGLP. You get a mild quieting of food
• 52:43
  noise and you get a lot of these improvements in lipids and
• 52:47
  neural inflammation, etcetera. But it's not so intense that you
• 52:51
  start to waste away, that you get nauseous, that you get some
• 52:54
  of the depression and Constipation, gastric issues and
• 52:57
  all the other things that go on with the standard dose.
• 52:59
  For example, in the health and fitness world right now, it's
• 53:02
  very common for people to be doing like a three times a week
• 53:05
  injection of Reddit. Rutide, which is one of the
• 53:10
  GLPS, acts on three different pathways and they're injecting
• 53:14
  about 0.25 milligrams of it, whereas a standard dose would be
• 53:18
  2.5 milligrams, like 110th of a standard dose.
• 53:22
  I've tried that and it actually works really well.
• 53:26
  I'm so lean anyways, I I shouldn't be allowed anywhere
• 53:29
  near a jail because I like, I have to.
• 53:31
  I have to eat like a horse just to maintain weight.
• 53:33
  That's just my metabolism. And I also tried like the
• 53:37
  standard dose of AGLP and I was miserable for like a week after
• 53:40
  one injection. So I think the dose is, the dose
• 53:45
  is almost like the poison when it comes to GLPS.
• 53:47
  I think they're a great drug and they're very useful for like
• 53:51
  overweight, obesity, you know, appetite control, etcetera.
• 53:54
  But the higher the dose, I think the more risks that you tend to
• 53:58
  see. And then there's what you just
• 54:00
  alluded to, like the bounce back and wait when I stop.
• 54:03
  Like there's kind of like 2 theories. 1 is what you use as
• 54:06
  training wheels to understand what it feels like to not be
• 54:08
  hungry. And then once you stop using
• 54:09
  them, you understand, OK, so I didn't have to eat.
• 54:12
  That was just mostly psychological.
• 54:14
  And now I understand that and I can control myself a little bit
• 54:16
  better. And then there's the other camp
• 54:18
  that's basically, well, once you take away that thing that was
• 54:21
  quieting food noise, you just come back like a roaring lion
• 54:23
  just right, even worse than before.
• 54:27
  And I think that might also be dose related because I didn't
• 54:30
  notice any type of like a surge in appetite when I quit doing a
• 54:34
  micro dose of rotatite and I did it for like 8 weeks.
• 54:37
  Yeah. I mean, it seems incredibly
• 54:40
  revolutionary, but it's it, I mean, it's huge business.
• 54:45
  It's one of those where it seems like if you go on it, you just
• 54:50
  need to plan to stay on it. Yeah, if you don't have the
• 54:53
  willpower to change your diet. That's what like testosterone is
• 54:56
  like too, right? Like if you're a man and you
• 54:57
  want that cheat code on life, which I think you're done having
• 55:02
  kids and it's dosed properly and you're working with, with some
• 55:06
  type of lab that's going to test your recorder to make sure
• 55:08
  you're not creating excess estrogen or you know, DHT for
• 55:11
  hair loss or something like that, then it's a good idea.
• 55:13
  But you do have to understand that once you start it, like
• 55:15
  it's really difficult to come off it.
• 55:17
  You're probably accepting the fact they're going to be on it
• 55:19
  for life. All right, so all of that is
• 55:21
  like, like super helpful and really appreciate the
• 55:24
  information and hopefully people get a lot out of that.
• 55:27
  I want to shift to really the thesis for love conquers fear
• 55:31
  and this moment that we're in for humanity.
• 55:35
  How do you view this moment? And you've you've listened to
• 55:39
  the podcast. So, you know, you know, my
• 55:42
  general thesis, but I really view the next 10 to 15 years as
• 55:45
  the most fateful time for humanity in existence.
• 55:49
  I mean, we're in the exponential of the exponential curves and,
• 55:53
  and definitely taking care of ourselves and is, is a huge
• 55:58
  aspect of it. And part of my thesis in my book
• 56:01
  that I just concluded, handed to the publisher now I'm in that
• 56:05
  painful editing process is the inner journey, the importance of
• 56:09
  the inner journey to really strengthen ourselves for not
• 56:14
  just what is here today, but what's to come.
• 56:18
  Yeah. I'm just curious how you think
• 56:19
  about this moment. I.
• 56:20
  Mean there, there's there's a lot happening right now.
• 56:24
  Yeah, sure. In a way.
• 56:25
  I'm not sure how much of it is new.
• 56:29
  You know, it's, it's, it's a little bit difficult to say
• 56:33
  having not lived through past periods of history where there's
• 56:35
  been massive changes, right? The horse and buggy to the car
• 56:41
  or from the sword to the gun or any other big movement that
• 56:44
  we've had. I like to think that that the
• 56:48
  human race is, is pretty adaptable and that for sure we
• 56:53
  will, we will figure out new ways to to harness our inborn
• 57:01
  creativity. Even if things change in a
• 57:05
  pretty dramatic way in terms of, you know, how we're working and
• 57:10
  perhaps even like, you know, the environments that we're living
• 57:13
  in. I don't really foresee there
• 57:15
  being like some kind of an apocalyptic scenario.
• 57:19
  You know, I would hope that we would be entering into more of
• 57:22
  an age of, I think I even heard you call it abundance.
• 57:25
  Abundance for all. Yeah, yeah.
• 57:28
  Yeah. And I don't, I don't know
• 57:29
  exactly what that looks like, but I guess the part about,
• 57:34
  about the inner journey really resonates with me.
• 57:37
  I mean, the way I interpret that, and I'm not sure if this
• 57:40
  is what you mean by it is basically a little bit similar
• 57:45
  to what we were talking about earlier about relationships,
• 57:48
  right? Relationships with others, our
• 57:51
  our spiritual fitness, you know, the way that we, the way that
• 57:56
  we, I, I suppose, like, brace ourselves spiritually for the
• 57:59
  change and also the way in which we build our communities and our
• 58:03
  neighborhoods and our families in such a way that that there's
• 58:07
  a lot of tight bonds there. I'm not sure what is going to
• 58:11
  look like, but we certainly do a lot at our house when it comes
• 58:17
  to tending for our spirits and tending for our community.
• 58:21
  We can get into the the brass tacks of that if you want.
• 58:25
  When I was about 30-4 years old, I was to the point where I'd I'd
• 58:34
  kind of built the fitness empire and helped empire and was
• 58:39
  traveling around the world, you know, speaking at a lot of the
• 58:41
  conferences and I had been named as America's top personal
• 58:45
  trainer and, you know, was doing the races.
• 58:48
  I was well respected. I was making money and I was not
• 58:53
  not really present in my community.
• 58:55
  I was not a present father, husband.
• 58:59
  My wife and I nearly got divorced and I almost lost,
• 59:02
  paradoxically, like everything that I was.
• 59:04
  I was working for you, almost like using work as a noble
• 59:10
  excuse to escape, convincing myself I was like slaying
• 59:13
  Dragons and, you know, bringing home the bacon for the family or
• 59:17
  sending the check home at least. But my wife was like, it was
• 59:21
  almost to the point was like she was raising our twin sons on her
• 59:24
  own. And it took that that thing that
• 59:30
  almost like really rocked my world to make me realize how
• 59:34
  important family and relationships and legacy
• 59:38
  actually are. And for us, that culminated in,
• 59:42
  you know, me doubling down on family.
• 59:45
  I mean, we have a family huddle every single morning at 7:00 AM
• 59:49
  like clockwork. We all gather.
• 59:51
  And it has been everything from meditation and breath work and
• 59:55
  journaling to reading scripture to praying together.
• 59:58
  We all talk about our day and who's got the car where and
• 1:00:01
  who's bringing what to dinner. And we even like huddle up and
• 1:00:05
  clap like a football team after it all goes down.
• 1:00:09
  Because I think a lot of families are like ships, you
• 1:00:12
  know, passing in the night if you just start the day without a
• 1:00:14
  formal coming together. And it's also a good, it's a
• 1:00:19
  good leash for me from a work standpoint because I get up
• 1:00:21
  early to work. But I know that, you know, 7:00
• 1:00:23
  AM, come hell or high water, like I got to be in the living
• 1:00:26
  room with the family. Similarly, in the evening, 7:00
• 1:00:29
  PM, you know, I have to have everything shut down because
• 1:00:32
  like clockwork, again, we all gather as a family.
• 1:00:35
  We sing a song together, we pray together, we talk about the day
• 1:00:38
  we've had a Father Son Book club since my sons were six and we
• 1:00:43
  talk about the chapter of the book that I've chosen for that
• 1:00:46
  month. We all go through that.
• 1:00:48
  And then we drag out whatever everybody's made for dinner and
• 1:00:52
  we go up to the game closet and we play games for like an hour
• 1:00:54
  and a half. This is almost every single
• 1:00:56
  night at our house. Like people come over to hang
• 1:00:58
  out and like you don't have to like throw a big party or do
• 1:01:02
  this big gathering for us. And, and we're like, no, this is
• 1:01:04
  like what we do every night, like just a big family gathering
• 1:01:08
  and family party. We schedule twice a month
• 1:01:12
  one-on-one date nights with each of the kids, you know, twice a
• 1:01:14
  month date nights for me and my wife.
• 1:01:16
  Like you guys, we do a lot of walking and movement together.
• 1:01:21
  And then we also make our house a gathering place and our
• 1:01:25
  gathering place our our intention as a family as we want
• 1:01:30
  our home to be open to anyone. So it's like the island of
• 1:01:33
  Misfit twice. It's like the massage therapist
• 1:01:35
  and the barista and some celebrity who's in town and a
• 1:01:39
  couple of entrepreneurs and we bring everybody together for a
• 1:01:42
  dinner party. And that's typically twice a
• 1:01:43
  month. I even ride my bike through a
• 1:01:46
  neighborhood and I put Flyers in the mailboxes of every street up
• 1:01:49
  and down our neighborhood and the neighbors come over.
• 1:01:52
  And so we've built this togetherness as a family and
• 1:01:57
  then also as a community. And then finally, a big part of
• 1:02:01
  it has been legacy building meaning.
• 1:02:05
  We sat down as a family about 8 years ago and we wrote down all
• 1:02:13
  of the values that our family holds dear.
• 1:02:15
  Things like love, transparency, gratitude, leadership, and then
• 1:02:21
  like a business would create a business branded mission
• 1:02:24
  statement. We didn't form those values into
• 1:02:26
  a mission statement and that hangs on our living room wall.
• 1:02:29
  And then we took all of that and created a graphic representation
• 1:02:33
  of it and formed a family Crest and had a metal worker create
• 1:02:36
  this family Crest. Everything our family holds
• 1:02:38
  dear. You have like the quadrant that
• 1:02:40
  shows creativity and the quadrant that shows community
• 1:02:43
  and the quadrant that shows adventure and exercise and
• 1:02:46
  another quadrant that has each of our spirit animals traveling
• 1:02:49
  through the universe together, all surrounded by these stones.
• 1:02:53
  And there's there's four of our different symbols for each of
• 1:02:56
  the family members on a tree. My wife is a seed, my son river
• 1:03:00
  is is waves of water, my son Taryn is a leaf.
• 1:03:03
  And if you look closely at the stones that are surrounding the
• 1:03:06
  Crest, each of our family symbols are embossed in those
• 1:03:08
  stones. And whenever a grandchild or
• 1:03:10
  great grandchild is added to the family will emboss their
• 1:03:13
  Insignia in each of those stones.
• 1:03:15
  And so the story of that Crest is in the book.
• 1:03:17
  But all of our traditions are also in the book.
• 1:03:19
  What we do for Thanksgiving, for Easter, for Christmas, for for
• 1:03:23
  any of the the major holidays that we celebrate the different
• 1:03:27
  rites of passage and what age those occur for each of the
• 1:03:30
  Greenfield children are and this is a powerful thing for
• 1:03:34
  children, especially our obituaries, our end of life
• 1:03:37
  wishes. Wow, how we want to.
• 1:03:38
  They are service to everything is in there.
• 1:03:41
  So it's a multi. It's about a little over 100
• 1:03:44
  pages long and I will be able to hand this book to my sons.
• 1:03:49
  So they can go forward with that, that handbook of like
• 1:03:53
  generational values and legacy and meaning and, and what it
• 1:03:57
  actually means to be a Greenfield in this case.
• 1:04:00
  And they can take that and build upon that with their family.
• 1:04:02
  And so legacy has been a big part of that as well.
• 1:04:06
  But when you talk about something like, you know, the
• 1:04:09
  the coming age and also the inner journey for me, I feel
• 1:04:14
  confident that we can handle that as a family just based on
• 1:04:22
  the community that we built around us, the legacy that we
• 1:04:25
  woven into the family. And then also just our intense
• 1:04:29
  trans togetherness and transparency that we have
• 1:04:32
  because of all these daily and weekly monthly annual comings
• 1:04:36
  and goings that we do as a family.
• 1:04:38
  Yeah, Yeah. I think you're already living
• 1:04:40
  the model that I would that would espouse because because it
• 1:04:45
  is, you know, there there is this level of us being under
• 1:04:49
  assault right now, which just algorithmic manipulation from
• 1:04:53
  the media, you know, getting us to think that we're living in
• 1:04:57
  the dystopia, all the toxins being put in our food, you know,
• 1:05:01
  the pharmaceutical complex, which which is keeping us in
• 1:05:06
  some state of addiction. Right, addiction and also, yeah,
• 1:05:09
  addiction. Learned helplessness and almost
• 1:05:12
  a state of mild lethargy in which we are a little bit more
• 1:05:20
  manipulatable, which I think a lot of a lot of pharmaceuticals
• 1:05:23
  actually do, you know, do mildly on the side, right, right.
• 1:05:27
  And I'm not sure that there's evil intention behind that
• 1:05:29
  besides or or if that's just, you know, that's people's
• 1:05:33
  reaction to something that they're taking, you know, side
• 1:05:35
  effect, right? It's certainly useful when it
• 1:05:37
  comes to manipulation of a of a society.
• 1:05:40
  I mean, in, in inherent in the name of the project is what
• 1:05:44
  humanity has to do, which is we have to get to a point where
• 1:05:48
  love we allow love to conquer our own fear.
• 1:05:52
  And then we can radiate more love in the world and we can
• 1:05:55
  help others do the same. And, you know, you're, you're
• 1:05:59
  being a great example in your own community.
• 1:06:03
  And tell their parents. Yeah.
• 1:06:05
  I mean, that's very inspiring to me as well.
• 1:06:07
  Yeah, yeah. I think it's important and I
• 1:06:09
  mean, it's a lot of people hear these things, but I think a big
• 1:06:13
  part is just the logistics of the application.
• 1:06:15
  Like you literally have to take out the calendar and say, OK, so
• 1:06:17
  I'm going on date night this night with child one and child 2
• 1:06:19
  and child 3 the day now with the wife.
• 1:06:22
  And these are the two dates that I have available Friday or
• 1:06:24
  Saturday or Sunday for a community party.
• 1:06:27
  And I'm going to start, you know, a contacts plus or a sheet
• 1:06:30
  or just a plain old Google doc or notes with a list of all the
• 1:06:33
  people I can invite to these parties and start to map out the
• 1:06:37
  family values and put together a legacy handbook.
• 1:06:39
  I mean, it, it seems like a big task, but I think a lot of this
• 1:06:42
  stuff is fun. It's fun to have people over for
• 1:06:45
  dinner and it's fun to take your kids out for a day.
• 1:06:47
  It's fun to, you know, I have all the family sitting in the
• 1:06:50
  living room floor together in their pajamas and gathering
• 1:06:52
  together again in the evening. So it's a little bit of work,
• 1:06:55
  but but I think it's one of the best things we can do.
• 1:06:58
  It's a great habit. Protect ourselves from from a
• 1:07:01
  potentially from a future that that threatens to tear us apart,
• 1:07:06
  right? Why?
• 1:07:07
  Why do you think there's so much dystopia when it comes to AI?
• 1:07:11
  There's a major dystopian narrative out there that the
• 1:07:16
  machines are essentially gonna take over.
• 1:07:17
  I actually think it's because it's been grafted in her human
• 1:07:21
  psyche by movies like The Matrix and The Terminator and on and on
• 1:07:26
  and on. There's the story of Gollum, you
• 1:07:27
  know, being Jewish, like, you know, where the Gollum was
• 1:07:31
  animated by the rabbi and then took over the synagogue and
• 1:07:35
  started destroying everything. That's that's a story that came
• 1:07:38
  out of Prague. First of all, I, I am not
• 1:07:43
  convinced that anything like that is going to occur.
• 1:07:46
  And the, the idea of the matrix or the amount of manipulation
• 1:07:52
  that may have extended or occurred in the past to the
• 1:07:54
  extent to where we're actually in the simulation that we're in
• 1:07:58
  a simulation now. I have a difficult time
• 1:08:02
  believing that maybe it's because, you know, my background
• 1:08:05
  is Christianity, right? If anything, I think that the
• 1:08:08
  simulation that we're in, if you want to call it that is, is that
• 1:08:11
  there was an intelligent being that created the universe and
• 1:08:13
  planned a whole story for us ahead of time.
• 1:08:15
  And we're all living as characters in that story, yet
• 1:08:17
  somehow magically have our own free will.
• 1:08:21
  But I, I think that's a much more hopeful way to live than to
• 1:08:25
  a think we're a bunch of chunks of flesh and blood in a very
• 1:08:28
  Darwinistic manner. Just hurdling through space on a
• 1:08:31
  rock, trying to see who can, you know, survive and and make the
• 1:08:35
  most kids or money or have the most homes or cars or whatever.
• 1:08:38
  And then, you know, it's game over.
• 1:08:41
  And it's also much more hopeful way to to live compared to
• 1:08:44
  thinking that we're, you know, this is all just a simulation.
• 1:08:47
  I think like the the dystopia with the AII think you nailed it
• 1:08:50
  that a big part of it is the narrative that's that we've just
• 1:08:55
  seen over and over again, you know, in in Hollywood and now.
• 1:08:59
  And a lot of the stories that a lot of people warning us about
• 1:09:02
  what the future of AI will become are saying IA.
• 1:09:07
  Lot of it's a lot of it then those coming from the AI experts
• 1:09:11
  and I would say though that there this is just a thesis I
• 1:09:16
  have. I don't know this for a fact,
• 1:09:18
  but but I can see it through their use of language and I know
• 1:09:22
  a lot of AI experts myself. There's a huge Venn diagram
• 1:09:27
  overlap between AI experts that are concerned about dystopia and
• 1:09:33
  a experts that have no spiritual core from what I can tell, Like
• 1:09:37
  no, no belief in anything spiritual, you know, just
• 1:09:40
  completely atheistic. And I think that if you just
• 1:09:45
  assume there's nothing beyond this world of form and we're
• 1:09:50
  just here and you know, there's no purpose to anything.
• 1:09:53
  We just kind of make up our own narrative as we go about about
• 1:09:57
  meaning, and there's no kind of world of love and life that our
• 1:10:02
  souls are in right now that we actually have come from to have
• 1:10:06
  this physical experience. Then it can take you into a
• 1:10:10
  nihilistic worldview pretty quickly.
• 1:10:12
  Oh, absolutely. And, and I mean, you've probably
• 1:10:16
  heard the theory that the reason that we're, we're seeing an
• 1:10:18
  increasing number of, of UFO or alien sightings is because
• 1:10:23
  they're concerned that we're gonna wipe each other out,
• 1:10:25
  right? And, and part of that might be
• 1:10:27
  driven by the surgeon AI. And before that it was, it was,
• 1:10:31
  you know, nuclear technology, right?
• 1:10:33
  And, and that that's what's going to somehow stop us or warn
• 1:10:38
  us. But again, I, I think that if
• 1:10:43
  you do believe in some source, some intelligence behind the
• 1:10:49
  universe, some origin of the universe that's outside of us,
• 1:10:52
  that's greater than us, and that's arguably watching out for
• 1:10:55
  us and that loves us and cares for us, then it's, it's not, you
• 1:11:00
  know, a Gray man popping up here and there warning us.
• 1:11:02
  It's an actual being who understands what we're doing,
• 1:11:06
  who understands what the future could be and who I don't think
• 1:11:11
  would allow machines to wipe us out.
• 1:11:15
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I very much believe in
• 1:11:17
  God. I would say that my
• 1:11:21
  interpretation of God is that it's beyond our understanding
• 1:11:26
  and knowing. Has to be to be a God, right?
• 1:11:29
  Right. Or to be God.
• 1:11:30
  Yeah, I mean the the science fiction novel I wrote The
• 1:11:33
  Lattice, which I think you've you've read, Yeah.
• 1:11:37
  You know, covering the years 2030 through 2085, even by 2085,
• 1:11:41
  we don't fully understand the nature of God, but we we've seen
• 1:11:47
  the repeating pattern throughout space and time and throughout
• 1:11:49
  the universe that love had to get to the point where it
• 1:11:52
  conquered fear so that we did not wipe ourselves out.
• 1:11:58
  Because it because we get to this point in any society around
• 1:12:03
  the universe where we got to level of technological
• 1:12:06
  sophistication, where creative potential was vast but also our
• 1:12:12
  destructive potential as vast. Cuz technology is always both
• 1:12:15
  sides of the coin. But do you think that we've had
• 1:12:18
  a period in ancient history in which we've reached a certain
• 1:12:22
  level of technological sophistication and somehow wiped
• 1:12:25
  ourselves out, or there was a great natural disaster that
• 1:12:27
  wiped all that out, and then we've started over since then,
• 1:12:30
  possibly multiple times? Not that I know of on Earth,
• 1:12:35
  although there's theories around that.
• 1:12:37
  Yeah. In the Lattice, what we find out
• 1:12:41
  is that once we get to the point where love has conquered our own
• 1:12:44
  fear and we have an unbounded technological take off because
• 1:12:49
  humanity unites, we find out that other alien races
• 1:12:54
  throughout the universe have gotten to that same crescendo
• 1:12:58
  point and had to get to the point where love conquered their
• 1:13:03
  own fear for them to take off. And one of the one of the
• 1:13:06
  challenges I have to the UFO narrative, for what it's worth,
• 1:13:10
  is that if there are aliens here and they come into our space,
• 1:13:19
  then that means that they had to get to the point where they
• 1:13:23
  probably conquered faster and lightspeed travel.
• 1:13:27
  And if they conquered faster and lightspeed travel, then they
• 1:13:30
  have faster and lightspeed weapons if they chose to make
• 1:13:34
  them. And a faster and lightspeed
• 1:13:36
  weapon would take out the Earth faster than you.
• 1:13:41
  And I could finish a word, right?
• 1:13:44
  I would just be immediate. Unless they're in the ocean
• 1:13:47
  already. Right.
• 1:13:48
  And so, so that's the that's the part where I have a challenge to
• 1:13:55
  it. And in terms of they had to if,
• 1:13:59
  if they're here, they have to be here in some benevolent capacity
• 1:14:04
  to help us in some way as opposed to as opposed to be here
• 1:14:09
  to do devious things. Yeah, yeah, that's at least my
• 1:14:13
  theory. Not not not a not a very well
• 1:14:16
  formed theory, but. Yeah.
• 1:14:18
  I, I, I would like to think that if they, if they knew of our
• 1:14:21
  existence, that their intention wasn't to wipe us out.
• 1:14:24
  But yeah, I, I think, and this is a little bit of A twist on,
• 1:14:30
  on the alien idea, but I think a lot of what we see when it comes
• 1:14:35
  to paranormal activity, whether it's alien activity or ghost
• 1:14:40
  activity or UFO sightings or anything else, is an actual
• 1:14:43
  spiritual dimension. And that a portal has been open
• 1:14:46
  in some way. And it's the same portal, I
• 1:14:49
  think that we can cross into through with the use of
• 1:14:53
  lycotheogens. I think that the the universal
• 1:14:57
  experience of certain entities, certain geometric patterns, even
• 1:15:02
  certain thought patterns, in some cases traumatic
• 1:15:06
  experiences. You know, a lot of what what
• 1:15:08
  might occur when someone, you know, says that they've been
• 1:15:10
  abducted, for example. I think a lot of that is
• 1:15:14
  spiritual and involves angels, involves demons, involves God,
• 1:15:19
  involves Satan. I think that if you look at the
• 1:15:23
  traditional use of plant medicines to crossover this
• 1:15:27
  portal to divine with the gods in some way or to divine with
• 1:15:31
  with, you know, deceased human spirits of our ancestors or
• 1:15:34
  other reasons these would have been used.
• 1:15:35
  That that's more of what we're seeing or is what we're seeing
• 1:15:41
  compared to extraterrestrial life when we're experiencing a
• 1:15:45
  lot of these. And I think that it's possible
• 1:15:48
  to experience those as we've seen on perhaps like radars or
• 1:15:53
  you know, in drug free settings outside of something like a
• 1:15:56
  psychedelic experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:59
  I've definitely had experiences with psychedelics where I've had
• 1:16:03
  communion with the divine and that's been transcendent for my
• 1:16:07
  life for sure. And I imagine you have to.
• 1:16:11
  Yeah, I mean, that's, that's, that's the saying, right?
• 1:16:13
  A lot. A lot of atheists will go into a
• 1:16:16
  plant medicine experience, but not a lot of atheists come out
• 1:16:18
  of a plant medicine experience. Right, Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:21
  I mean, I've always believed in, in, in God as it was.
• 1:16:24
  But but actually having a knowing.
• 1:16:28
  Yeah. Which is different than feeling
• 1:16:32
  it in prayer, which feeling in prayer can be very, very
• 1:16:35
  powerful. I think it is risky, though, I
• 1:16:37
  think because of the, because of the, the, the nature of the
• 1:16:47
  spiritual beings that you might encounter in a state like that
• 1:16:52
  and the unpreparedness of many individuals who might be
• 1:16:56
  experimenting with those type of protocols.
• 1:16:58
  Or the, the, the hidden motives of whoever might be sitting for
• 1:17:04
  a protocol like that. Like, let's say you know,
• 1:17:06
  whoever the the shaman is for that, that there's a great deal
• 1:17:09
  of risk because we're talking about compounds that
• 1:17:12
  traditionally would have been reserved for either the
• 1:17:14
  priesthood or very seldomly for like a rite of passage, Not
• 1:17:19
  like, you know, for a 48th trip to Peru to do another ayahuasa.
• 1:17:23
  Experience to find yourself. It's like that in video you
• 1:17:25
  shared with me where exactly the two the couple are talking and
• 1:17:29
  she's like, I know my 750th Ayahuasca.
• 1:17:32
  Journey with Sean and Bob are, you know, Bob, Bob's great.
• 1:17:36
  Yeah. I, I think that the, the surgeon
• 1:17:40
  availability and popularity of a lot of these experiences, you
• 1:17:43
  know, with with journeys is something that we should
• 1:17:46
  actually be exercising great caution around.
• 1:17:49
  I actually, I agree. I quit talking much about things
• 1:17:53
  like that on my podcast about 8 years ago when, after going
• 1:17:58
  through a a pretty long and hefty series of different plant
• 1:18:02
  medicine experiences, realize that this is, for lack of a
• 1:18:07
  better phrase, like shit. That we need to be very careful
• 1:18:09
  messing around with. And that if I as a, as a public
• 1:18:14
  figure, start lauding these compounds, then for every nine
• 1:18:18
  people who go and have a great experience, one's going to come
• 1:18:20
  out and have, you know, a nearly, you know, schizophrenic
• 1:18:25
  type of, you know, or, or even traumatic almost.
• 1:18:33
  I, I think potentially even almost like an entity on board
• 1:18:36
  type of experience that they come out with some type of
• 1:18:39
  possession by either an entity or by whoever sat for procedure
• 1:18:43
  like that, like a shaman or just a great deal of confusion about,
• 1:18:47
  hey, was that a memory? I don't know if that was a
• 1:18:49
  memory, you know, did I experience that trauma?
• 1:18:51
  I'm not sure. Was that in the song I was
• 1:18:54
  listening to on the radio on my way to my journey?
• 1:18:57
  Like there's, there's a lot, right that I think people don't
• 1:19:01
  understand that they need to be prepared for and something like
• 1:19:04
  that. And.
• 1:19:06
  Yeah. Also, a lot of people studying
• 1:19:07
  matters a lot, yeah. Yeah, big time.
• 1:19:10
  Yeah, I mean, I do think that done right and with great
• 1:19:15
  intentionality and in the right set and setting, it can be one
• 1:19:18
  of the most transcendent experiences yeah, people have
• 1:19:21
  ever had. I think I've seen it.
• 1:19:24
  I personally I have, not just for myself, but I have two
• 1:19:27
  friends that have done it with great intentionality.
• 1:19:29
  My wife and I had some big breakthroughs in our
• 1:19:31
  relationship through experiences like that.
• 1:19:34
  I think back to the Everest analogy.
• 1:19:37
  You should climb Mount Everest before you get dropped off by
• 1:19:39
  helicopter on top of Mount Everest.
• 1:19:42
  I even recently experienced this with ibogaine.
• 1:19:47
  I was going to go do I was supposed to be doing ibogaine
• 1:19:49
  like 3 weeks ago and realized in the last couple weeks after
• 1:19:53
  working with my coach on the phone and going through my list
• 1:19:55
  of intentions and my journal that there was nothing on my
• 1:20:00
  list that. I had yet made an attempt
• 1:20:03
  through through fasting, through journaling, through isolation,
• 1:20:07
  through solitude, through prayer, through self examination
• 1:20:10
  and fully sober state to intentionally tackle.
• 1:20:15
  And I took the six days that I was going to be in Mexico to
• 1:20:18
  instead sit at home in my studio and then the lounge next to my
• 1:20:22
  office to journal and to write and to just go after all of
• 1:20:28
  these issues that I wanted to work on in a completely
• 1:20:30
  different space. And I actually, the way I
• 1:20:33
  approached it was as a sort of identity inversion, meaning that
• 1:20:37
  I would write down or journal about some aspect of myself that
• 1:20:41
  I had the intention to change, let's say, like being less self
• 1:20:46
  obsessed and be more interested in other people.
• 1:20:48
  Understanding that everybody has a core desire to be seen and
• 1:20:52
  loved and heard and walking through life with a greater
• 1:20:54
  awareness, you know, just a subconscious awareness of that.
• 1:20:58
  And then I would invert that entire negative aspect of my
• 1:21:04
  personality into one positive word, in that case, kindness.
• 1:21:08
  And I and I came up with a list of 10 items.
• 1:21:12
  Prayer, kindness, contentedness, love, trust, honor, abundance,
• 1:21:20
  obedience, intention and courage as my theme for 2026.
• 1:21:26
  And this is all just based on 6 days of self examination.
• 1:21:30
  Basically deferred the the I began experience for a year
• 1:21:34
  because I wanted to climb the mountain before getting dropped
• 1:21:38
  off on top of it. I mean, I think a lot more
• 1:21:40
  people before they consider a plant medicine experience.
• 1:21:43
  You consider fasting, journaling, maybe some kind of a
• 1:21:46
  vision quest in the wilderness and doing the work before.
• 1:21:50
  Yeah, popping the pill, so to speak.
• 1:21:52
  Yeah, that's, I think that's really good advice.
• 1:21:54
  And, you know, I spent a long, long time doing a lot of inner
• 1:21:59
  work before I ever did a psychedelic experience.
• 1:22:03
  I studied Vedanta for many years, you know, spent a lot of
• 1:22:08
  time like really just focused on health, focused on mental, you
• 1:22:15
  know, strength. Really.
• 1:22:16
  Which means you're going in more psychologically and spiritually
• 1:22:19
  prepared. That's right, compared to the
• 1:22:21
  person who heard from their cousin at Ayahuasca is cool and
• 1:22:23
  buys a plane ticket to Peru. Yeah.
• 1:22:25
  And, and in terms of just your confidence that humanity is
• 1:22:32
  going to make it to this age of abundance for all, it sounds
• 1:22:34
  like you're pretty, pretty confident.
• 1:22:36
  Oh, I'm very confident, but I think a great deal of that is
• 1:22:41
  tied to my religious beliefs, right, Right.
• 1:22:45
  So, so if you look at this from the perspective of my background
• 1:22:51
  Christianity, there are different eschatological views
• 1:22:53
  in Christianity, meaning what we interpret as is how the end
• 1:22:59
  times spoken of in say the Book of Revelation in the Bible would
• 1:23:03
  actually look like. And there is basically a pre
• 1:23:08
  millennial belief. And that essentially is based
• 1:23:12
  around the idea that the, the world is basically going to get
• 1:23:19
  worse and worse. And we are kind of sort of going
• 1:23:24
  to hell in a handbasket. And when things get really,
• 1:23:26
  really bad and we're kind of like in a Mad Max type of
• 1:23:28
  scenario that the heavens will open and the trumpets will sound
• 1:23:32
  and Jesus will come back and, you know, take everybody to
• 1:23:36
  heaven. And, and that's basically after
• 1:23:40
  1000 year reign of Satan on earth.
• 1:23:43
  That's that's a premillennial standpoint.
• 1:23:46
  The post millennial standpoint is that, and again, this is this
• 1:23:52
  is all based on Christianity, is that a Messiah came and
• 1:23:58
  conquered death and that the world from that point on is
• 1:24:02
  going to get better and better and better.
• 1:24:05
  And our only job is to love others and love God.
• 1:24:10
  And that if we do so and fulfill what in the Bible would be
• 1:24:14
  called the Great Commission and fulfill those 2 greatest
• 1:24:17
  commandments of loving God and loving others, that the world
• 1:24:20
  will get better and better and better.
• 1:24:22
  And then eventually there will be a new heaven and a new earth.
• 1:24:26
  But it's not going to get really, really bad before that
• 1:24:28
  happens. Yeah.
• 1:24:29
  So just based on my religious convictions from a post
• 1:24:32
  millennial standpoint, which is what I believe, I I naturally
• 1:24:37
  operate with the idea that that everything is going to be OK,
• 1:24:42
  yeah. That that things are going to
• 1:24:43
  get better and better. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm
• 1:24:46
  tackling it from that perspective.
• 1:24:49
  I mean, I've studied tons of ancient scripture at this point,
• 1:24:52
  from the Delta Ching to the Bhagavad Gita, Buddhism to early
• 1:24:58
  Judaism, you know, Kabbalah. Yeah, I'm Jewish, but yeah, you
• 1:25:01
  know, you know, to early Christianity and what I found is
• 1:25:07
  that they all sink at a common root, which is love is answer
• 1:25:11
  essentially that that if humanity just becomes more
• 1:25:16
  loving, which is again where our souls already are.
• 1:25:21
  So just like a remembering of where we came from, and then we
• 1:25:27
  radiate that on earth, which is what Jesus did, and then treat
• 1:25:32
  each other with that level of kindness and love.
• 1:25:35
  As Byron Reese said on episode 12 of the podcast, all any
• 1:25:40
  individual needs to do is just treat each other with kindness
• 1:25:44
  and we'll enter utopia. But then I take a techno utopia
• 1:25:49
  view to it as well, because there's so many things that we
• 1:25:54
  look back on with shame or horror, you know, like slavery,
• 1:25:59
  for example. And then we had the Industrial
• 1:26:02
  Revolution, and it made using human beings in that way
• 1:26:07
  completely irrelevant, right? And we have 1000 Mechanical
• 1:26:11
  Turks in our back pocket on a right rectangle.
• 1:26:14
  Exactly. And, and we're in this
• 1:26:15
  exponential of exponential curves right now.
• 1:26:19
  And, you know, week of tech progress to me, you know, as
• 1:26:23
  someone who's been programming since I was seven years old,
• 1:26:26
  right now in 2025, the end of 2025 feels like a year of tech
• 1:26:31
  progress 10 years ago. And I think that several hours
• 1:26:35
  of tech progress 10 years from now is going to feel like a week
• 1:26:39
  today, like a year 10 years ago. And so we're going to have
• 1:26:44
  abundance around the world that we cannot imagine today.
• 1:26:48
  And, you know, some people really push back on me with
• 1:26:51
  that, but what I remind them is that, you know, you and I and,
• 1:26:56
  and everybody alive today listening to this has something
• 1:27:01
  called electricity. And that's only .1% of the
• 1:27:06
  entire existence of Homo sapiens.
• 1:27:09
  Yeah. We've been around it for around
• 1:27:10
  300,000 years. And, you know, imagine how few
• 1:27:14
  of us have experienced the Internet.
• 1:27:17
  Yeah. And now we have AI and, you
• 1:27:21
  know, your children, my children, they're, they're going
• 1:27:24
  to kind of remember a world before AI, but not really, you
• 1:27:28
  know, because they're really coming of age with it.
• 1:27:31
  And it's, you know, 100 years from now, I, I cannot imagine
• 1:27:38
  what society is going to be like.
• 1:27:40
  The one thing that I know for a fact is that if you and I could
• 1:27:44
  jump into a time machine and go 100 years from now, we would
• 1:27:49
  view the people alive at that time with God like capabilities.
• 1:27:56
  We would, we would not even be able to imagine.
• 1:27:58
  Like they'd probably be able to sit in front of us and just
• 1:28:01
  fabricate something in their hands, right?
• 1:28:04
  And we'd have no idea what's going on.
• 1:28:05
  And it'd be some kind of. Or know what we're thinking
• 1:28:07
  before we said anything, right? Exactly.
• 1:28:10
  Yeah, I. Think the the most important
• 1:28:15
  thing about your philosophy is that the the love conquering
• 1:28:21
  fear must be based upon the existence of an intelligent
• 1:28:27
  being, the outside of us who is a source or an example of what
• 1:28:34
  absolute love looks like. For sure I.
• 1:28:36
  Think that human beings in of ourselves are incapable of pure
• 1:28:43
  and perfect love. And I think you see that if you
• 1:28:47
  look at look at an attempt to create a society void of
• 1:28:52
  religion, void of spirituality, void of God, dependent upon
• 1:28:56
  almost like a socialistic or near communistic assumption that
• 1:29:00
  people are all going to do good things for each other.
• 1:29:03
  When left to our own volition, I think that we we must have some
• 1:29:08
  source of absolute truth and that example of perfect love in
• 1:29:12
  our lives. For for that conquering of fear
• 1:29:15
  to actually happen. For sure, I think.
• 1:29:17
  I think that is the most important thing.
• 1:29:19
  I think, I think this is a huge area where you're what you talk
• 1:29:25
  about out there and what I talk about has a huge overlap, which
• 1:29:28
  is we both agree that a strong spiritual core is absolutely
• 1:29:32
  necessary. And that is actually what a
• 1:29:37
  reality is. You know, the hardest chapter
• 1:29:40
  and the most ambitious chapter of the book that I just
• 1:29:44
  concluded writing is chapter 12 on what is a reality.
• 1:29:48
  And I break down a lot of ancient scripture, I break down
• 1:29:52
  quantum physics. I break down lots of different
• 1:29:55
  aspects of our reality to basically prove that we live in
• 1:30:02
  a reality that's a deeply rooted in love and light.
• 1:30:06
  And once we have that awareness and there's lots of different
• 1:30:11
  ways to get there, then it really transforms the way you
• 1:30:16
  live your life because you you can be in alignment with your
• 1:30:20
  soul and in alignment with the place that we actually come
• 1:30:23
  from, from lifetime to lifetime. So you know that that spiritual
• 1:30:30
  core is, is a huge, huge aspect. And one of the things that I
• 1:30:35
  don't think people see coming, that I see coming, I've been
• 1:30:39
  pretty good about predicting where tech's gonna go for a
• 1:30:43
  long, long time, is that the acceleration with AI, quantum
• 1:30:49
  computing, robotics, brain to computer interfaces is actually
• 1:30:52
  going to lead us to understand what makes us most human.
• 1:30:57
  That we're gonna have more spiritual insight than we can
• 1:31:01
  even imagine. Today, do you think that's
• 1:31:04
  because that will draw us nearer to an understanding of where
• 1:31:07
  consciousness originates? Yes, exactly.
• 1:31:11
  Consciousness is the unsolved frontier.
• 1:31:15
  Yeah. And I think consciousness and
• 1:31:18
  God are, are synonymous. Yeah.
• 1:31:21
  And I think consciousness, you know, I, I read this book this
• 1:31:26
  year called Why in Buddhism is True.
• 1:31:29
  And it was written by a guy just trying to prove natural
• 1:31:31
  selection of the way our brains evolved.
• 1:31:34
  But it ended in a very spiritual way, even though he wasn't
• 1:31:38
  setting out to write a spiritual book.
• 1:31:41
  And he said, let's just be thankful that what the Buddhist
• 1:31:44
  have taught in terms of meditating and seeing the unity
• 1:31:48
  of all things, that if everybody took that path, then they would
• 1:31:54
  realize that we live in a place of love.
• 1:31:58
  And it could be the case that the more people would meditate,
• 1:32:04
  the more people would be like, Oh my gosh, it's target scary in
• 1:32:07
  there. It's a horrible place, right?
• 1:32:09
  And so he was saying, let's be thankful that that's our
• 1:32:12
  reality. And so he was trying to make the
• 1:32:15
  case that everybody should at least practice some form of
• 1:32:18
  Buddhism, some form of meditation, to realize that
• 1:32:22
  that's where we come from, and that if everybody did that, it
• 1:32:25
  would make for a more loving world.
• 1:32:27
  Yeah, we're even just starting with baby steps like self
• 1:32:30
  examination. I mean, how often do we actually
• 1:32:32
  look inside ourselves at the end of each day and question how we
• 1:32:35
  lived our lives? Yeah, that's one of the most
• 1:32:38
  important things. We we did that early on with our
• 1:32:40
  sons. As you sit down at the end of
• 1:32:42
  the day and you close your eyes and you imagine yourself
• 1:32:44
  watching yourself in a third person perspective, walking
• 1:32:47
  through the movie of your day, you're rooting for that
• 1:32:50
  character. Did that character make the
• 1:32:52
  right decisions? When were you screaming at them
• 1:32:54
  to do something different? You know, in a way, you can
• 1:32:57
  almost walk through your own life in that same like state of
• 1:33:01
  constant self examination. If you're asking yourself, you
• 1:33:04
  know, what would the audience of my life be screaming at me to do
• 1:33:07
  right, right now? Yeah, I just, I just think it's
• 1:33:10
  inevitable that as we continue down this exponential curve that
• 1:33:16
  it's going to take us into unlocking more and more of the
• 1:33:19
  secrets of consciousness. I mean, the way I envision it
• 1:33:22
  happening in the lattice, which actually it happened as a result
• 1:33:25
  of a of a psychedelic journey I did.
• 1:33:28
  And the first part of that book is that this protagonist, Dr.
• 1:33:32
  Alexander Bliss, he has this audacious idea to hook up
• 1:33:38
  psychonauts, A Dalai Lama, meditators, you know, spiritual
• 1:33:42
  masters to brain computer interfaces to find out what's
• 1:33:45
  common in their journeys. Yeah.
• 1:33:48
  And they discover something called the lattice, which is
• 1:33:52
  what binds all things together. It's that 96% of the universe
• 1:33:56
  that we call dark energy and dark matter, and we have no idea
• 1:33:59
  what it is. It's a connective tissue of our
• 1:34:05
  reality. And once he's able to prove that
• 1:34:09
  and he has this big unveiling at this documentary Film Festival
• 1:34:13
  in 2031 and Telluride, it unites humanity because they see, wow,
• 1:34:19
  that actually is our reality. That's where we come from.
• 1:34:23
  And that creates this unprecedented take off and the
• 1:34:27
  atheist still refuse to call it God.
• 1:34:31
  Instead, they call it the grand intelligence of the universe,
• 1:34:34
  which is kind of a little fun. Poke at Joe Dispenza, although I
• 1:34:38
  have great respect for him. I think he calls it the great
• 1:34:42
  intelligence of the quantum field in in his books.
• 1:34:46
  But but it leads to that understanding of where we come
• 1:34:52
  from. And I think it's inevitable that
• 1:34:55
  that's going to be the case, that we're going to get to this
• 1:34:58
  level of understanding because of the technological take off
• 1:35:03
  and because of this chase for sentients.
• 1:35:05
  Yeah, AI experts wanting to create sentient machines and
• 1:35:10
  wanting to really decode consciousness.
• 1:35:14
  I think that there's something very divine about consciousness
• 1:35:17
  that that once you decode it, you just realize.
• 1:35:21
  Oh, so, so it's almost like a theory that by attempting to
• 1:35:25
  create some sort of machine sentience that we are going to
• 1:35:28
  recognize the source of the sentience within.
• 1:35:31
  That's right. I'm super excited.
• 1:35:33
  I'm very proud of the product, you know, put a lot of love into
• 1:35:35
  it. I mean, this has been a very
• 1:35:38
  important year for me in my own development.
• 1:35:41
  You know, 2025 will go down as a year away.
• 1:35:44
  I read over 55 books, Yeah, and really tried to make sense of
• 1:35:49
  what a reality is. I have to ask you though, just
• 1:35:52
  just as one one author to another, with that amount of
• 1:35:57
  writing, do you have an actual writing protocol that you
• 1:36:02
  follow? Like do you have a certain time,
• 1:36:04
  certain days from sequence? I wish I could say yes, but the
• 1:36:08
  answer is no. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:11
  I mean, I, I, I, I do know quite a few people, and I've studied
• 1:36:15
  Vedanta, where, you know, the best time to write is from
• 1:36:19
  around 4:00 AM to 6:00 AM. Right.
• 1:36:21
  Because the mind is mostly. Clear a little more the Theta
• 1:36:24
  brain wave creative. Yeah.
• 1:36:26
  But I've, I've, I've just the, the truth is that I've found
• 1:36:30
  that when I really want to focus, I'm able to focus.
• 1:36:33
  And that doesn't necessarily depend on the time of day.
• 1:36:36
  Yeah, for me, yeah. But I think I'm unusual in that
• 1:36:41
  way. Yeah.
• 1:36:42
  So you're you're more of a when the muse strikes type of writer,
• 1:36:46
  yes, versus the creative scenario in which the whether or
• 1:36:50
  not the muse has struck and yeah, you're.
• 1:36:52
  In Are you a fan of the book or The Celestine Prophecy?
• 1:36:55
  I don't write it. Gosh, you'll love that book.
• 1:36:58
  I mean, it's all about seeing the synchronicities in life.
• 1:37:01
  It's like the divine is very playful.
• 1:37:03
  And yeah, that that's that's the top book recommendation I could
• 1:37:06
  give to you. But very Celestine Prophecy, the
• 1:37:12
  one of my very good friends, one of the activities I'm going to
• 1:37:16
  do in 2026 is go to Bali and study Siddha Maha Yoga, which is
• 1:37:22
  a form of meditation. It's actually a very easy form
• 1:37:25
  of meditation and it's not rules based.
• 1:37:27
  It's a very freeing. OK.
• 1:37:30
  And he has a taste of that. Since I'd already committed to
• 1:37:36
  Bali, the master teacher for at this Indian guru was hosting an
• 1:37:43
  online workshop for a week. And it appeared the last week
• 1:37:48
  that the book was due. And it actually had a really
• 1:37:53
  positive impact on the last chapters of the book that I just
• 1:37:57
  saw. Oh my gosh, this disappeared at
• 1:38:01
  the exact right moment for now. Some people would be like this
• 1:38:04
  is the exact wrong moment to take on anything new, but it
• 1:38:08
  actually turned out to be the exact right moment for me.
• 1:38:11
  I knew that it was it was there to be a helper to me and and it
• 1:38:15
  really helped me conclude the book with the even more soulful.
• 1:38:18
  And that's the Celestine prophecy.
• 1:38:20
  Like CEO. TLESTINE Prophecy.
• 1:38:25
  Yeah. Amazing, amazing book.
• 1:38:27
  A great one on Audible, too. It's like it reads like a
• 1:38:30
  thriller. Yeah.
• 1:38:31
  Cool. Well, I really, really enjoyed
• 1:38:33
  this. Yeah.
• 1:38:34
  Yeah. So much.
• 1:38:35
  Fascinating. I learned a lot.
• 1:38:37
  I did too. I did too.
• 1:38:38
  Oh, my gosh. I I learned a time.
• 1:38:40
  You know, one of the things you don't know about me is, you
• 1:38:44
  know, I'm around 190 lbs now, but I used to do.
• 1:38:48
  I used to be 225. I used to look more like a
• 1:38:51
  bodybuilder. Yeah, because when I.
• 1:38:54
  You mean you mean muscle? Yeah.
• 1:38:56
  Yeah, really. Yeah.
• 1:38:56
  When when I, when I first started working out, I was 14
• 1:39:01
  and I was just totally obsessive about it Yeah.
• 1:39:05
  And, and I'll be honest, like the reason why I was I wanted to
• 1:39:09
  start dating and. And I went from about 140 lbs to
• 1:39:15
  around 225 by the time I was 21. Yeah, and it it definitely
• 1:39:19
  worked on you're you're a part of that media manipulation too,
• 1:39:22
  that, that the woman that you want to get is the woman who who
• 1:39:25
  likes guys who look like Arnold. Right, Right.
• 1:39:28
  Totally. I was definitely, I was
• 1:39:30
  definitely programmed that Arnold was.
• 1:39:33
  I went, I went through that phase too.
• 1:39:34
  I mean, I, I haven't carried it all the way into bodybuilding in
• 1:39:38
  all the way up until, gosh, it was 2021.
• 1:39:41
  I was still bodybuilding when my wife and I got married.
• 1:39:43
  Yeah. So I'm about 200 now.
• 1:39:45
  I was 215 and 3% body fat. Wow.
• 1:39:49
  In college. Wow. 3% but it.
• 1:39:51
  Also is a pretty unhealthy sport we didn't talk about the law of
• 1:39:54
  diminishing returns with weightlifting, but the amount of
• 1:39:56
  muscle that you need to carry and cool and the.
• 1:40:00
  The not only the the psychologically, you know,
• 1:40:04
  narcissistic damaging effects of bodybuilding, yeah, mental
• 1:40:07
  standpoint, but also just like. Well, I felt less healthy, felt
• 1:40:11
  less healthy, like AP20 muscle laying.
• 1:40:13
  On the couch with no libido and messed up hormones.
• 1:40:16
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also not.
• 1:40:18
  Healthy it did. It did lead to me meeting my
• 1:40:20
  soul mate. Yeah.
• 1:40:21
  To devil, yeah. I mean, at least it the the
• 1:40:23
  physical attraction was yeah, was part of the deal.
• 1:40:26
  And she is as obsessive at working, making out and and
• 1:40:31
  fitness as I am. I think her day.
• 1:40:33
  Wife are on a walk right now. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's true.
• 1:40:37
  Well, cool. Well, I really, really
• 1:40:39
  appreciate your heart and appreciate all that you put out
• 1:40:42
  in the world and and highly recommend your book boundless.
• 1:40:46
  I mean it is thanks, man. It is a It is a thick book of
• 1:40:50
  everything you could possibly. Add to AI though the last fact
• 1:40:54
  based book I will ever write. Everything else from here on
• 1:40:56
  out, I'm only writing stories and personal anecdotes and yeah,
• 1:41:02
  everything first person adventures and life experience
• 1:41:05
  because is it like it there? There's certain elements of that
• 1:41:09
  look that I, I think AI still couldn't wrap its head around as
• 1:41:12
  far as like how different things are stacked and, you know,
• 1:41:15
  things you just can't find on the Internet.
• 1:41:18
  But I think it's just going to be so easy from here on out for
• 1:41:22
  any author to turn out a bunch of really interesting facts and
• 1:41:26
  applicable knowledge versus stories that are woven into all
• 1:41:29
  of that. So.
• 1:41:30
  That's true, but at the same time we have access to content,
• 1:41:34
  all of humanity's content in a queryable fashion regardless of
• 1:41:39
  what language it's in. I mean, it's just mind blowing
• 1:41:43
  to be in a place like Bhutan and conversing with all of their
• 1:41:49
  text in English. Yeah.
• 1:41:51
  You know, I could learn anything I wanted out there with your
• 1:41:54
  phone. With my phone.
• 1:41:55
  Yeah. So.
• 1:41:57
  And it's hard to imagine as of this recording that we're just
• 1:42:01
  over the third year mark of the launch of Chachi PT.
• 1:42:05
  Yeah. So we're literally at the
• 1:42:07
  beginning. And so just imagine another.
• 1:42:09
  Three years. Brains are going to change when
• 1:42:11
  it comes to language and navigation and everything else
• 1:42:15
  that's, you know, somewhat outsourceable.
• 1:42:17
  Well, cool. Well, hey, I really enjoyed
• 1:42:19
  this. Yeah.
• 1:42:20
  Thanks, Brett. Thanks so much fun.
• 1:42:22
  Well, thanks again, everybody for tuning in to Love Conquers
• 1:42:24
  Fear. I love that episode.
• 1:42:26
  I learned so much, and I hope you did too.
• 1:42:29
  And stay tuned. Like I said, I'm recording this
• 1:42:33
  at the end of 2025. I can tell you that the lineup
• 1:42:38
  for 2026 is unbelievable. I already have all of January,
• 1:42:44
  all of February booked and the gifts just are incredible.
• 1:42:50
  So stay tuned and thanks for all the love all of you gave me
• 1:42:56
  throughout 2025. I really appreciate it as as you
• 1:42:59
  know, this project is my love letter to humanity.
• 1:43:03
  I'm self funding it. There's no ads and I'm doing
• 1:43:06
  this solely for impact. So I really appreciate all the
• 1:43:09
  love you're giving me and giving you a lot of love back.
• 1:43:13
  Thank you.