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Zack Wheeler: All Star Snub · The Specific Jawns

• speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Sorper has put the speaker-0: FOMT! speaker-2: Talking about the body intelligence. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the specific Johns Podcast, your premier podcast for all things Phillies related. Thank you for ⁓ watching the pod on YouTube or listening on Spotify or Apple, which Is an option this week for the first time. That's right. After months of grueling and intense labor behind the scenes, we have figured out a way to upload it to audio platform, something everybody else has been doing since 2003. Apologies for the delay on that, but thanks for listening or watching however you're doing it. We got a lot to talk about on today's episode. The Topsy Turvy Week that the Phillies just got done with. Bryce Harper and Kyle Schwarber potentially being in the home run derby. Do we want that? ⁓ do we expect it to happen? And of course, the all-star snub that was Zach Wheeler. But before we get to that, I have to introduce my co hosts, my good buddies in Philadelphia, Carl Bakudi, Mike Sambuco. Gentlemen, how are we doing tonight? speaker-0: I can complain, but I'm not going to. speaker-1: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna withhold my complaints, but otherwise damn good week in Philadelphia. Gotta admit, even though it was hot as hell. America 250 in the the the birthplace of our country itself was pretty awesome. Had the World Cup going. It's just ⁓ it's a good time and ⁓ some some exciting baseball to look forward to and the All-Star game coming up in another week. It's been pretty rad to be in South Philly these ⁓ past couple weeks. speaker-2: There you go. ⁓ I'm I wasn't there for America two fifty in Philly, but I'm in LA for Mexico making a deep run in the World Cup, which I feel like is kinda the same. but shout out to America, shout out to Philly, shout out to Jalen Brown. ⁓ and ⁓ let's ⁓ yeah, I it might speaker-0: Potentially Leo Carlson too. speaker-2: I I I picked up through context clues when I was like, that sounds like a white guy that I'm unfamiliar with. I'll bet it's a hockey thing. ⁓ Mike, you said you have ⁓ you could complain, but you're not going to. You are. You are, but it will be during our Zach Wheeler section. We'll get there. ⁓ but first let's just recap the week that was for the Phillies. When we wrapped up our last episode, I believe we were asked to make predictions about where we saw the Phillies ⁓ when we recorded this episode in terms of the standings. I thought that they were going to have a hard time picking up ground because the Braves had seven home games coming up against the Cardinals and Mets, who I thought were punching bags. ⁓ I was half right. The Phillies didn't really make up a lot of ground, but it was mostly Of their own doing, the Braves left the door wide open for us. They went three and four in those seven games, including two painful losses to the Mets to end that series. ⁓ and the Phillies responded by going three and three against the Pirates and Royals. ⁓ the week started with a Christopher Sanchez gem against the Pirates. It ended with arguably the worst outing of his career against the Royals. In the middle, the Phillies beat the hell out of Paul Skeens. They got shut down by pitchers that they, you know, should have beaten up on. In short, it was a very Phillies week. ⁓ you didn't know what to expect, none of it made any sense, and at the end of the week they come out of it three and three. ⁓ Talk to me guys. What's your big takeaway from the week? ⁓ how you feelin' after what we just saw? speaker-1: Yeah, it was a a a very Phillies week, as you said. ⁓ not not many fun games. The last last time we met on this podcast, we were talking about, you know, just having a blast watching them come back against the Nats, ⁓ and a a good series against the Mets. ⁓ this time it was okay, we're we're out of it or okay, we're blowing ⁓ out. ⁓ Yeah, just j some alarming things, I would say. ⁓ Brandon Marsh has cooled off a little bit. I don't know that anyone wants to talk about that too much. ⁓ Sanchez is worrying me. This is ⁓ this is really three starts since his ⁓ incredible run in May where he's looked gettable, ⁓ where he can't seem to locate, ⁓ especially early in the game. ⁓ you know, you start to worry is there is there a dead arm situation, is there something Mechanical, I hope not something physical. But, you know, it we tend to latch on to a starting pitcher who has a you know a really hot start, especially all the way through May the way he did, and think, all right, he is he's top dog the rest of the year. You can't rely on that in a in a long season, and his innings will add up and I I just I want to see him settle in. ⁓ I I don't want to see this become a trend because My God, do we need ⁓ 'Cause what is behind ⁓ And ⁓ I'll Mike, I'll let you get into some of the other games that were just abject disasters on the starting pitching front and on the offensive side. speaker-0: Well I'll tell you one thing I'm thankful for today is that I didn't have to watch yesterday's abomination. call it a getaway day loss, but it also felt like Sunday was a getaway day loss, but it wasn't. ⁓ back to back games against a lowly Kansas City Royals offense that really made us look like a middle of the road team that couldn't hit and couldn't pitch. ⁓ really frustrating. ⁓ weekend after ⁓ a Lizardo ⁓ I would call it a mini gem on on Saturday. ⁓ and then optimism from the opt offense yet again hitting Skeens around. It's the second time they've done that this year. Now Skeens hasn't been what he was last year, but ⁓ y you look for signs of life against good pitching. But really this this whole week was defined by the fact that they couldn't hit mediocre pitching. And that's yet again another fr frustrating offensive performance from guys that are slowing down. You you mentioned Marsh, but look at ⁓ Schwarber as well. ⁓ you know, June Schwarber was great. July Schwarber hasn't been much of anything. ⁓ so it's a little frustrating to see, but it's also concerning. I mean, y you mentioned Sanchez earlier. Maybe it's ⁓ you know, fatigue. He's on pace for over two hundred innings already. I mean he's pitched a hundred and twenty something, I believe, so far this year. ⁓ but ⁓ the start yesterday was just brutal, even after the first inning, which you could make the ⁓ strong case that he should have gotten out of it unscathed because of the Trey Turner failed ⁓ double play turn. But ⁓ even after that he gave up home runs. To two guys, I mean one Sal Perez, but it's he's at the end of his career. And a no name. I mean it's it was let's hope it's just a blip in the radar for him, but two starts ago he had the blister issue. I wonder if that impacted him at all yesterday. speaker-1: Yeah, he I he didn't mention it. There was no mention of it after yesterday's game. I was waiting to hear that, Mike. I I was hoping to hear that, frankly. ⁓ Yeah, the biggest takeaway from the outing yesterday, three home runs off of his changeup, really alarming. Really alarming. That's that's not that's not Christopher Sanchez. ⁓ And if people are sitting on it and he's not locating it, that that goes from being, you know, the best pitch in baseball to a liability. So we just can't we can't have that again from him. I hope not to. ⁓ what you think about ⁓ Schwarber getting ⁓ ejected yesterday? Was that ⁓ was that performative? Was it a statement? Was it an acknowledgement of how this past week has gone for the guys? ⁓ or just looking to just get off the field and and have his getaway day? speaker-2: He didn't do anything. I don't think he was try for it to be performative or to have some sort of intent behind it would tell me that he did something to deserve to be eje ejected. He did n he waved his arm and barely said anything, and then a different umpire ejected him. So you know, I was actually listening to the radio broadcast when that happened, and Kevin Stalker ⁓ took a break from his usual ⁓ nonsensical banter that has no place on the radio to actually say something that I thought was ⁓ you know, pretty pretty smart. He said, ⁓ he said Mattingly needs to get ejected here. And then he never expounded on it or anything like that. But ⁓ I think the idea was ⁓ you know it was such a an egregiously bullshit ejection of Schwarber that, you know, that's the kind where you would like to see the manager have their back. ⁓ no, I mean I think the Padres had a much more performative one. their manager and bench coach got coach got ejected three pitches into the game the other day. on the heels of losing eight in a row. That was clearly we're trying to rile them up, we're trying to do a thing. The Schwarber thing, I think, was just he was frustrated and shouldn't have been tossed. ⁓ but I'm glad it got him off his feet because nobody if you were able to forfeit a baseball game, that would have been the time to do it. There was nothing to be gained from that one. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean I saw the replay obviously, but th i it it looked like he was in shock more than anything at first, and then he just wanted to get his money's worth. ⁓ I w I do agree with you. It was the type of situation where you'd love to see Mattingley jump in there, make a show of it. S i if this game was at home, it would probably be even more interesting to see if he did that, because that then you get your fans riled up a little bit. ⁓ But ⁓ it seemed like just everybody there was ready to get on a plane to Cincinnati. speaker-2: Yeah. Cou a couple thoughts on some stuff you guys said, and by the way, apologies to Kevin Stalker. I don't know why you caught that stray there. I'm in a mood. ⁓ I you know, I I was thinking about the fifteen to one game and next thing you knew I ⁓ for some reason I'm taking aim at Kevin Stalker. You're you're fine. You didn't deserve that. ⁓ Couple things that you guys said there. ⁓ Marsh is cooling off a little bit, but Turner's heating up. This is how baseball teams are supposed to work. A guy gets hot for a little bit and then he gets cold and someone else has his back. I'm I'm fine with that. The Sanchez thing, you know, the three homers off of changeups, I actually think that the best case scenario, if there is something wrong with him, is the potential that he's tipping pitches. Because that can be picked up and that can be fixed. I don't know why else they would hit three home runs off of the changeups unless they kind of knew what was coming. ⁓ so I think that's something that they need to get, you know, kind of in the the film room and and look at. And if that's the case, I feel like this happened to Lazardo last season. He had a couple games where he gave up like nine runs and then they realized he was tipping and he fixed it. So that would be the best case scenario in my mind. The worst case is the mileage. I mean, people forget Christopher Sanchez was not throwing 200 innings every year leading into last year. Last year was by far his biggest workload, and then he pitched in October, and then he pitched in the World Baseball Classic, and now he's on pace for 200 plus innings this year. This is ⁓ foreign to this guy. ⁓ so you know, you really gotta hope that he doesn't run into anything because as much as Trey Turner is picking up Brandon Marsh on the pitching side, Aaron Knoll is not picking up anybody. Andrew Painter couldn't even stick in the big leagues. There is we've discussed this ad nauseum, no depth there at all. So you gotta hope whatever it is, it's a relatively quick fix and they kinda, you know, get him back on track because otherwise, you know, this could get painful ⁓ in a hurry. speaker-0: Yeah, it's not like they can let him sit ⁓ on the IL for, you know, two short weeks just to get him some rest. I mean, they need him right now because they're in a fight for the wild card at this point and fight for the division too, but ⁓ he's coming off of two back to back years where he's got hundred and eighty and two hundred innings and I I don't think it's the mileage coming off just yet, but maybe it's just a dead arm period for him. Maybe it's it's the blisters. I'm I'm I I'm thinking that it's potentially maybe an overreaction to one start, but I mean he he did have the start two starts prior that was also iffy. So just puts in an highlight. speaker-1: Was expecting to hear that he they were going to put him on the the ten day IL and just ride it through the all-star break. Just give him a breather and come back in the second half. ⁓ I hope you're right about tipping pitches, Pat. I I just what I saw, especially in those first two innings, the location was not there. It it had way more to do with the Royals being patient. ⁓ he wasn't missing by much, but you know, he's a finesse pitcher. I mean he's he's got power, but It comes down to his location always ⁓ and setting them up for that change up and they were not set up for the changeup. So ⁓ I hope you're right, but I I wouldn't bet on that being the scenario. speaker-2: Very possible and I like that you guys, you know, Mike, you referenced the Turner error and that was the same deal in Milwaukee when he gave up four runs in four innings, which at the time was as bad of a start as you could imagine out of Sanchez. The bar has moved on that one, but ⁓ in both cases Turner you know, shares part of the responsibility, strictly from a ⁓ perspective of earned runs versus innings pitched. But you're right, that's not the main issue. I don't care about him trying to win the Cy Young or anything like that. I don't care about the stat sheets, the earned runs, the ER I don't it is the fact that he is not hitting his spots and he's not executing his pitches. And even if Turner had turned that double play, it doesn't negate what Sanchez did on the mound and the pitches that he threw. So definitely troublesome if if I can offer a little bit of positivity on one thing. ⁓ it's the fact that we have talked on this podcast about how even when they were hot, we put an asterisk by it and we said, Well, it hasn't come against any of the pitchers of the caliber that we will face in October. We will not face schemes in October because I don't see the pirates making a deep run with that roster, but that level of pitcher. And you're right, he hasn't been as good this year as he was the last two, but part of the reason for that is because the Phillies got to him twice. and I it's worth noting that they went up against a top tier pitcher and ⁓ kinda had their way with him. And ⁓ it it doesn't make the the out the other outings less frustrating, but it is worth giving them their credit for that because ⁓ they they lit him up. All right. ⁓ so with that we ⁓ we move on three and three on the week. ⁓ they lose a half game ⁓ in the standings to the Braves. As you mentioned, they are also fighting for the wildcard. I will not look at the wildcard race until after the all-star break, but we are getting near that point. ⁓ speaking of the all-star break, ⁓ the teams were announced, and the Phillies, as of today, as of a couple hours ago, have six guys that they can call all-stars. Bryce Harper, Kyle Schwarber, onto the team as backups. Bryce Harper getting in V. ⁓ the legend or icon pick, which is I don't know. Hopefully he uses that as some sort of slight. He should not have needed that to get in. ⁓ Brandon Marsh voted a starter, well deserved for the first time in his career. Christopher Sanchez and Johan Duran getting in on the pitching side. And just ⁓ hours ago, before we hit record, Jesus Lazardo being announced as a replacement as a starting pitcher. One name conspicuous by his absence there is Zach. Wheeler, who is on the mound right now. Wheeler certainly deserving. We talked last week about the possibility of him not making it. I was incredulous. I was like, there's no way he's not going to make it. Boy was I wrong. I know you guys are fired up about it. Take it away. speaker-0: It's last year all over again. I mean it's the same exact situation with Christopher Sanchez last year in twenty twenty five, where they can't put this all star caliber player onto the team because they're lined up to pitch on Sunday, which just goes back to the point of he should have been named an all star in the first place. Can't be picked as a reserve now, but you could say that he deserved it over I would say two pitchers. Paul Skins being one, he has better stats. And Logan Webb, number two, is is like night and day, like not even close. You have two guys. you can make the argument that Skeens was the best choice of the bunch for the Pirates and the Pirates needed one, but that's not the case for Webb. Luis Arries made it for the Giants as well. So somebody decided whether it's the players or the manager. Dave Roberts decided that Zach Wheeler is not an all-star. And I hope he uses that as motivation for the rest of the year. But it is extremely frustrating to see guys that consistently get let down by Major League Baseball, whether it's the awards of Cy Young in twenty twenty one, second place again in twenty four. And now again he's snubbed as an all star. He he deserved it. And it's it's just it it's so frustrating when speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: When this type of stuff happens, and I'm not just saying this as a fan, but as a as a person, he deserves it. He is I'm I'm done. Carl, go for it. speaker-1: Will I will speak as a fan. I I I've been very clear on this podcast from the get-go that I am just a huge Zach Wheeler guy. He is he's my guy in in frankly this century as pitchers go for the Phillies. ⁓ a couple just little things that that I wanna add on to what ⁓ Mike just said ⁓ ⁓ you know, it something about this feels petty and punit punitive on somebody's part. I don't know if it's Dave Roberts or not. He is the consistent presence. He's the the the winner of the last two World Series and therefore the manager of the All-Star team both years. ⁓ in 2025, last year, exactly one year ago, ⁓ Wheeler was ⁓ named to the All-Star team, as he should have been. ⁓ and he ⁓ opted out. He he was very clear, he thought it was the right thing to do for the team. he felt he needed to rest his arm for the second half. He knew it was ⁓ rapidly closing window, that we got a win. and at the time I was really I was a little I was definitely disappointed, kind of upset with with Wheels. That just didn't seem like him. The the type of competitive guy he is, the type of guy who rightfully has a chip on his shoulder due to some of the slights that Mike just mentioned. ⁓ going all the way back to when he was with the Mets and and you know, the way they treated him during the twenty fifteen World Series, wouldn't even give him a seat in the house. ⁓ the guy's whole career's been defined by slights and and proving everybody wrong. I ⁓ but I I ⁓ it makes me wonder and I'll I'll I'm fine projecting on this podcast that Zach Wheeler knew something was off this time last year. 'Cause what happened within a month of that situation? He's got blood clots in his in his rib cage. He's he needs thoracic outlet syndrome, a a major, major procedure in which he wasn't no one was sure he would even have a career after that. ⁓ So you gotta look back at that history, and even if you are Dave Roberts and maybe a little myth that he didn't ⁓ take the roster spot you offered him last year, it's even more reason to put him on the team immediately this year. When he comes back Way earlier than anybody expected, on the heels of the Phillies on their nine and nineteen ⁓ debacle. put so much juice into the franchise and this team that they're now ten games above five hundred. He's eight and one. He's got a a extremely low ERA compared to everyone else in a very competitive national league, ⁓ starting pitcher wise, he's the cream of the crop. ⁓ so it just seems to me like it it's a double insult not to name him immediately because of of what he's overcome. This is baseball, this is the all star game. There it's not a true meritocracy. You you factor in outside ⁓ things, whether it's you know, the fan favorite or or just a nice story. That's how these that's why we have these arguments about the All-Star rosters, because there's always that stuff on the fringe that just funds a debate. It's the same as ⁓ the Hall of Fame. ⁓ but it it couldn't have been more obvious to put him on this team. I I can't fathom any legit reason not to have. ⁓ so That has me extremely f just furious and and befuddled as a fan of Zach Wheeler, or really just a baseball fan, I think anybody should be. But at the same time, I have to sit and kind of stew in this and think. If you're the type of person who was fully bought into Bryce Harper being motivated by call being called not elite by his GM in the offseason, and that that has fired him up into you know, being elite again this year. I as Pat said, I don't think he should have been the legacy pick for the All Star team. He absolutely belonged on there outright. ⁓ if you think that motivated a guy like Bryce Harper, watch what it will do to a guy like Zach Wheeler in the second half of this year. I mean the guy the guy's agent even came out a couple days ago ⁓ expressing, you know Things that Wheeler has said to him that he does it's not Wheeler's style to to go out in public and and gripe. ⁓ but in the wake of him being pulled by Don Mattingley prior to the end of the fifth inning a week ago, another slight perceived by him, it's it's been put out there by people close to Wheeler that he cares about his lack of accolades. He he feels like his his legacy is not where it should be, and I a hundred percent agree. I talked about this on an episode months ago. He doesn't have the hardware and it's really unfortunate. No Cy Young. ⁓ he's got a gold glove, but but no championship. And he's been like the premier pitcher for the past eight years, I would say, in baseball. ⁓ if you take the averages overall. ⁓ so the guy cares about this stuff and he does want to win. And he's just a a guy I would not want to face pissed off. And I think that's what we're gonna get in ways we never seen before. ⁓ it's not just overcoming injury, it's gonna be overcoming everything this second half. And he's a guy who's aware of context and history. He knows that there might not be baseball next year. He is gonna put it out there with everything he has. So silver lining is this is motivating me. in my fervor for the second half of the Phillies, 'cause I think Zach Wheeler might end up winning the Cy Young out of spite, ⁓ when all said and done. speaker-2: Well look, I I I hope he does. ⁓ and y you hit on something there that I really do want to talk about, so we're gonna circle back to it. ⁓ I won't get into any of the conspiracy stuff as far as like I I don't know The whole process is kind of shrouded in mystery. I mean, say what you want about the fan vote, but they're pretty clear about how that works. Everything else, it's like, well, it's an amalgamation of the players and the man I don't know when these guys vote on this stuff. Part of the problem with the fan voting is that it starts in early May. Well, if you started polling the players in early May, who do you want on the All-Star team? There's a reason Zach Wheeler wouldn't be on there. Obviously, it's a snub. He's had a better year than Paul Skins. He's had a better year than Logan Webb. There's no doubt in my mind that if he were not pitching on Sunday, he would have made the team. Maybe not today, although I think it would have been today, but I think there's going to be even more people that drop out. He's made himself ineligible by pitching on Sunday. There's an easy fix for that, by the way. Add an extra day to the all-star break. I don't know why you go right from playing ball on Sunday to the home run derby on Monday. Put an off day between those two, do the derby on Tuesday, do the game on Wednesday, and then you won't have to deal with that. Neither here nor there. The bottom line is he should be an all-star, even if it's just a symbolic gesture, and it seems weird to me that they can't go ahead and and do that now. I don't know that it's Dave Roberts because I think if he was the one pulling the strings, Justin Robleski would be on the team and at least would have been added today. Ten and two with a two eighty ERA, very deserving of his first all star trip. He has not, ⁓ you know, been added. So I I I don't know whose fault it is, but bottom line, Zach Wheeler should be there. I wanted to talk though about what you said, Carl, about Wheeler's comments to the media. After he was pulled from the game at four and two thirds innings the other day and was unable to pick up the win to recap, the Phillies were up big. I believe it was eight to three going into the innings, something like that, into the fifth. He had thrown a lot of pitches already. He was nearing a hundred pitches. He got two quick outs and then gave up I think it was three consecutive hits. might have even been four. He pushed himself to about a hundred and five pitches. It was a really hot day, and Mattingly pulled him. ⁓ and at four and two thirds he did not qualify for the win. Now, this is one that frankly, if you had asked me ahead of time, how do you think Zach Wheeler will respond to that, I would have said, ⁓ he's fine with it. I don't think he cares about that stuff. He know he wants what's best for the team, you know. I definitely didn't think that even if he thought that in his head, he would come out publicly and kind of ⁓ you know, error those grievances, and yet he did. He got questioned and he was very upfront about it. He said, I think I've earned the right to stay in that game and go the five innings and get the win. I was a little bit taken aback by that. I'm not saying it's good or bad, right or wrong. I was just surprised by that. Can you guys expound on that a little bit? What were your thoughts on that? Do you have any problem with him kind of coming out and saying that? speaker-1: I don't. I think if there's a guy who's earned ⁓ the right to say something like that, it's Zach Wheeler and I I I think it just goes into everything I said earlier that he he he feels like he's tr gotta make up for lost time here. ⁓ and he fe he's he's I think he thinks about his legacy and rightfully so, 'cause ⁓ you know, he's he's worked hard, he's worked through adversity, he's been slighted and overcome ⁓ everybody's expectations and I just think that's that's his makeup and that's what makes him great. So I'm good with it. I think Mattingley's good with it. ⁓ I thought his comments afterwards, even though he hadn't spoken to Wheeler yet, ⁓ indicated, you know, that that's that's a guy I want. That that's an attitude I wanna have for my you know, my ace one A. ⁓ so yeah, I I'm I'm good with all of speaker-0: Sounds like they both talked and ⁓ Wheeler got off his chest what he needed to get off his chest and everything's good. ⁓ but it is the first sign in the Mattingley era that there's a player discontented with Mattingley. And it might just be for this one situation, but it's just something to keep an eye out for long term this season. I don't think it's gonna amount to anything further, but it is Wheeler kind of staking his claim and saying I'm The leader of this pitching staff and I deserve to be treated as such. And I mean he's well he's definitely deserved to have that opinion. ⁓ just because one day you don't have it the way you do most of the time doesn't mean you can't be taken out before the fifth inning ends. But ⁓ I I think he's he's the type of guy that you know you typically don't see that publicly and you typically see that behind closed boards. You don't typically say that because it's behind closed doors. speaker-2: Yeah. I go ahead, Carl. I I have a call. speaker-1: We don't we don't have to get too much into, you know, the the manager compare and contrast thing, but it it it's I I thought about this as they were, you know, in their ⁓ twenty four hour where they hadn't spoken yet about it and then Mattingley did say that they did speak and and aired it out, whatever. ⁓ I'm just curious what it would have been like with Topper. ⁓ I go back to, you know, the thing that Castellanos kind of brought to light, you know, about how you Respond to guys who played the game, whatever. ⁓ I just can see that being a a really mutual respect conversation between Wheeler and Mattingley. ⁓ not saying it wouldn't have been with Topper, but I think it it it was certainly going to be that way with Mattingley, player to player. ⁓ you know, I I think that is probably how that went. ⁓ I think there was probably a mutual understanding and respect for. you know, their ⁓ competitive nature and and wanting to do what's best for the team from from their perspective. ⁓ and they probably just agree to disagree on that game and and moving forward, ⁓ I think it'll be fine. speaker-2: Yeah. I think you're right. ⁓ I also just want to get this on the record. ⁓ you know, Mattingley was right. Sorry, he was right. He's got a job to do, which is to win a World Series. He can't worry about Zach Wheeler's wins. I everyone in in the world has accepted that wins are a meaningless stat for any number of reasons. And I understand why Zach Wheeler is upset. Like I say, I was surprised it kinda came out publicly. ⁓ I understand why he was frustrated. I was I was also surprised that he was still frustrated hours later to the point where he felt like he needed to talk about. Like that seems like the kind of thing you're pissed about in the moment, and then you're like, whatever, move on. We got the win. Who cares? He was still upset about it, but Mattingley did the right thing. It was a hot day. He was well over a hundred pitches. If Zach Wheeler needs someone to blame for his inability to get through five innings against that team, he needs to look in the mirror. It was his it he didn't have it. He didn't get through five innings because he wasn't good. Enough to get through five innings that day. And then you're maddening, all right, he's at 104, you leave him out there. The guy has an eight-pitch at bat and then gets an infield single. Now he's at 112. What do you do? You didn't hit the ball hard, but like, how long do you keep this going? You know, in a world where we just watched ⁓ Clayton McCullough pull Yuri Perez from a perfect game after seven innings with 92 pitches. It seems a little bit crazy for Wheeler to be upset about getting pulled at four and two thirds when he's kind of getting hit around a little bit. But whatever. I love wheels. I and I I don't want it to seem like any wheels slander, but that's my take on it. In this particular situation, I'm team Mattingly. speaker-0: The other thing I wonder about is if there has been a bit of frustration amongst the starters because Mattingley has been a bit more aggressive in pulling starters out of games this season since he's taken over than than Topper had been. And you know, Wheeler with the stature that he has on the team in the in the clubhouse, maybe he was making a point of you gotta trust your starters a bit more than you do. And, you know, the especially the way the relief pitching has pitched recently, there's a lot to be d ⁓ desired ⁓ i in between getting the starter out of the game and getting to Duran. So I think th maybe it was a message to be sent to him as well. speaker-1: It it it could have been that. I also one thing we haven't mentioned was that he had a a streak of fifty three games getting into the through five innings, ⁓ which is impressive. You know, maybe that was something on his mind. ⁓ I'll tell you though, if the message was, you know, you gotta you gotta ⁓ trust your horses and and leave us in games a little longer and let us kinda call the shot there, at least in terms of the big starting ⁓ three starting pitchers. ⁓ If Sanchez is in a dead arm period here and that's what happened yesterday, ⁓ I don't want to hear that argument from any of them. speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah. And and the argument of you have to trust your pitchers. Let's be very clear, it wasn't a lack of trust. Mattingly clearly trusts Zach Wheeler to get an out more than Kyle Backis. It was We're up by a lot and I need you to be healthy for October. So look, at the end of the day, two adults, ⁓ they they aired it out and apparently everything's fine. And ⁓ we will hope that that is the case and we'll keep an eye on it moving forward. ⁓ here's something I wanted to pick your guys' brains on. speaker-0: Mm. speaker-2: The home run derby ⁓ is currently six days away as we record this. Bryce Harper, Kyle Schwarber both on the fence, potentially participating. It is my belief that they both will participate. I think that that is ⁓ what is going to happen. but the the Derby in general, I think, is a big A sticking point amongst fans. I think some people love to watch their players do it. I think others fully buy into the fact that it will throw off their swing for the second half. ⁓ two-part question. Number one, do you think they will participate in the Derby? And number two, maybe more importantly, do you want them to? speaker-1: Mike, go ahead first. speaker-0: I'm a firm yes and yes on that. I would love to see a head to head battle in particular ⁓ between Harper and Schwarber. ⁓ not just going there live, but it's great theater for the game and it's great theater for f the city of Philadelphia and the Phillies fans. ⁓ do I think it's going to impact their second half of the year? Honestly, no. I I I think the especially Schwarber's done it in the past. Harper's done it in the past. Those two guys not only have ⁓ had success after the All Star Game, but they've had a long stream of success even when the when they don't participate. It's not a situation I'm worried about at all. and and it's it's I would be extremely disappointed if both of them did not participate. speaker-1: Yeah, no and no for me. Hard no. On both. ⁓ I'm not a home run derby guy anyway. I think I've I've mentioned that before. Doesn't do anything for me. I don't know what's wrong with me. Do I have no sense of romance? I I don't know, but I'm not a home run derby guy. I don't care. It's boring to me. The the to me, you know, the home run is not the most exciting play in baseball. ⁓ You know, it it it can be fun to find out who won and and remember that as a as a stack moving forward and it's good trivia, et cetera. ⁓ but in terms of the two guys we're talking about today, Bryce Harper and Kyle Schwarber, number one, they're already in the All-Star game. We're gonna get to see them on their home field, honored, cheered for, all of that. It's great. I'm glad that they both made the team, would have been upset if either one had not. I want to talk about the type of players they are and the swings that they have. Bryce Harper has had back issues before. Bryce Harper has an extremely violent swing. Bryce Harper is at his peak for a little while longer, maybe. He he can't have that violent swing forever. Something's going to break down. Why are we messing with it in maybe the last year of baseball? For a while in in this window of of competition for the Phillies. Why why would we risk anything like that? I don't need to see him swinging like that. And he also made comments to the media that if he's in it, he's not just gonna have a good time. He's gonna try to win the thing. He's gonna be swinging even harder. I don't I don't need that risk. If something happens, I mean, my God, will I be furious. And Kyle Sch ⁓ Schwarber had a a a tweaked back two two weeks ago, three weeks ago, had to sit out for a game or two. It's torque. These guys are power hitters. These guys are are are conditioned to swing, you know, at the cadence they do. They they run BP at their own speed. They get in the game, they know when they're swinging the bat, and they do so and they produce. I don't need them upsetting any rhythm. They're professional hitters, sure, whatever, but we've seen it happen before. We've seen it happen with Phillies before, where guys win the home run derby and then are dog shit the second half of the year. Bobby Abrau. I just why? speaker-0: On the flip side, Ryan Howard finished his home run derby win with an MVP season. So it goes both ways. It speaker-1: Maybe. Maybe it go if it feels like it goes the other way more, or maybe it's just more accented. But no, I don't need it. I don't want it. ⁓ I'll be ⁓ nervous watching it. I might not even watch it. ⁓ I just th the eyes on the prize here, fellas. So speaker-0: Before Pat jumps in with his thoughts, I'm I'm curious, Carl, if this was an end of the season event after October, would you feel differently or would you still have the same opinion? speaker-1: I would feel differently about the participants. I would probably not feel differently about how interesting it is to me, but yes. Would have no problem with them participating then. speaker-2: I respect even if I don't totally understand your disdain for the derby. I yeah, good good for you. I I love the derby. ⁓ I'm going to love it even more this year. Now that the clock is gone, and I'm excited to say that I ⁓ I I got to speak this week to the person who is responsible for the removal of the clock and I am ⁓ Very privileged to to know this person. I told them I was like, You're my new favorite person, so shout out to them. They know who they are. ⁓ it's going to be so much better. I do expect both of them to participate. ⁓ especially Harper. ⁓ because Harper seems like he is kind of publicly getting re When he said, If I do it, I'm gonna be in it to win it, I said, ⁓ you're then you're in it. You would not say you're too competitive to float that and then not do it. Schwarber with the back injury, I could see. ⁓ for what it's worth, and I understand this is eight years ago, and this is an apples and oranges comparison in in some ways. Bryce Harper, the year that he won the derby, went into the derby slashing two fourteen, three sixty five, four sixty eight, which I had no recollection of. I didn't realize he was so terrible. In the first half of twenty eighteen, his his walk year, ⁓ after the Derby, three hundred, four thirty-four, five thirty-eight. So his OPS jumped over a hundred and forty points in the second half. So I don't know, maybe. ⁓ Schwarber's numbers ⁓ a little bit more inconclusive. He's done it ⁓ in eighteen and twenty two. He does it in the winter Olympics years, which would ⁓ seem good for this year. He's pretty consistent across the board, but with the back injury, who knows? ⁓ I hope that at least one of ⁓ does it. ⁓ and I hope they don't get injured. I you know, it's it's a really interesting thing where and and I could say the same thing about Sanchez pitching in the All Star game. I would frankly love it if he took the week off. ⁓ he's been getting shelled recently. I don't know what that's all about. Schemes just dropped out of the all-star game. Maybe for similar reasons. I would Love it if Sanchez, you know, dropped out, but by the same token, you're always walking that line of like keeping your players in a protective bubble and ⁓ not exposing them to anything and you know, wanting them to really be a part of it and do something cool. Like you see it all the time with Otani. He did one derby just so he could d say, I already did it, I'm done now. He pitched in I think one all star game, but he's not gonna pitch this year. He's never gonna do the derby again. It's just never, ever, ever gonna happen. So y you gotta you gotta ride that line. And I think if the game was not in Philadelphia, I'll tell you this much, if the game was in literally any other city, I don't think either of these guys would be participating. It's speaker-0: fully agree with that. I ⁓ the only reason they're considering it is 'cause it it's in Philly and and that's the only reason why I want them to participate. speaker-2: Yeah. There is something cool about the hometown guy coming in and ⁓ and and winning the thing. So let's hope that if they do it, this is one thing we can all agree on, they do really well and they don't get injured. That's ⁓ that's all there is left to hope for at this point. speaker-1: Amen. speaker-0: go through a lot of things in life. The world baseball classics, spring training, just don't get injured. speaker-1: So speaker-2: Seriously. It's a it's amazing how many ⁓ how many things you have to look you have to look at. And then i it you know, y you look at Jeff Kent like missing half a season because he fell washing it or he was riding dirt bikes and said he was washing his truck. Whatever. Like speaker-0: So falls on the D L because he sneezed too hard. speaker-2: Yeah, Sammy Sosa we can't get into Sammy Sosa right now. We'll be here for a while. That's a that's a long conversation. ⁓ let's wrap it up with this. We are also approaching the trade deadline. It is that time of year, less than a month to go. Obviously, the Phillies are a flawed team. Obviously, they have holes to fill. ⁓ I'm gonna do this just as a thought exercise. If you could only fill one of those holes, which one would it be? Give me a trade that you would like to see them make before the deadline. You can give me a specific player or just an area of need, ⁓ what do you guys think? speaker-1: I want a left handed setup man. More th I I I can't believe I'm saying this, ⁓ given how you know much we've clamored for a right handed bat, an outfield bat. ⁓ I'll live with Derek Hill. I'll I'll live with whatever patchwork we have out there if it means that I don't have to worry about the two innings between when our starter gets pulled and Joan Durant. Because I hate it right now. It it is a black hole. It is it is miserable to watch what we're rolling out there right now. Alvarado is cooked. Orion Kirkering is is not what I thought he even was before the disaster of last October. I had ⁓ I was a huge fan of Kirkering's stuff. I don't like his mental makeup anymore. ⁓ and I don't even think it has anything to do with October. I just don't think he he just I you look at a guy, you see enough baseball, you know what a guy should look like in certain situations and he doesn't look that way. ⁓ Kyle Backis, whatever else you want to throw out there. Keller, you know, he was the big splash signing in the bullpen in the offseason. Haven't liked anything I've seen out of him ⁓ since the beginning of the season. I know he's hurt and he's ⁓ you know, supposed to come back. feeling better, but I mean just the contact that guys were getting off of him from from the get go. ⁓ just not comfortable with it. And look it i if we go into October and can't hit the ball, we've seen that before, game over anyway. But you gotta go in expecting your professional hitters to hit professionally in October. Or what are we here for? But if you go in with no one to bridge that gap between the starter and the and the stud closer that we have, we're not winning playoff games. It it doesn't it doesn't matter who performs out of their head. it just doesn't work that way. So left handed setup man, I don't I don't have eyes on anyone in particular yet. ⁓ but that that has to be the deal that we make, in my opinion. speaker-0: I'm I'm firmly in agreement with the idea of relief pitching help. I mean they they definitely need it and they definitely need more than just Keller coming back healthy and effective. ⁓ that would be ⁓ an extreme improvement if he comes back and pitches like he did last year with the Cubs, but ⁓ you need something from the left side that you're not getting today with the with the the relief core that you have. ⁓ I'm still firmly in in ⁓ the position that they need an impact battery. By impact, that's a top four in the lineup worthy bat that they can slot in anywhere in one through four. ideally from the right side, but I'll take from the left side if that's all that's available. I I I can't go into October with this lineup. and and if I had to pick one, I would pick the lineup because I think you can piecemeal a bullpen from the combination of what you have. In the starting rotation, slash miners, whether that's a McFarlane coming up or a Gage Wood coming up, or even Andrew Painter potentially, doubt it, but there there's more help available on the relief pitching side. You might be able to get away with trading for like a a six-seventh inning arm that just is the right fit for this bullpen. But I need an impact bat for October. speaker-2: You're both right. Let's start there. ⁓ you're both right. And that's why this question is so tough, because they do have, you know, multiple needs. ⁓ and the bullpen is nauseating right now. It really is. ⁓ But y I I tend to err on the side also of like the the lineup and it almost doesn't matter. Like I've gotten to a point where It just seems like this team is either gonna get really hot together or really cold together at the same time. And it almost doesn't matter who the pieces are. In twenty-two you had a rookie, Bryson Stott, who like, you know, was getting huge hits, and Brandon Marsh, and like all these guys who had no business all being that good. All they all were that good. And then in twenty twenty five, damn near the same roster ⁓ was terrible. ⁓ so you know, it it probably doesn't matter, which is so w what's so maddening about this, but like watching that team go eleven innings in that game four against the Dodgers with the season on the line and be unable to generate anything. against Tyler Glass now and you know a really terrible Dodgers bullpen outside of Sasaki. It was just really, really tough to watch. And I don't know what they're gonna do with the relievers. You hope that there's a two thousand two Angels, Francisco Rodriguez, who the hell is this guy who comes up in August and, you know, does something? You hope that Brad Keller comes back and I'm Frankly I'm not gonna say is what he was before and is better than what he was before, because what he was before was not good enough. You you hope that Alvarado somehow isn't cooked, but I they're it's all bad, but this lineup I just cannot go into October with this lineup and I think we've forgotten about how bad it is because they, you know, had a hot week against the Nationals bullpen and we're like, ⁓ they're coming around, it's hidden hidden season, it's hitting weather. No, they're still bad. They're still bad. And you know, if Turner is gonna play like this, that's gonna help. But overall, you know, I think they need I think they need another speaker-1: Here here's I we don't have much time left here, but I think factoring into my emphasis on left handed setup man and and allowing myself to to let the right handed bat or any bat go, if I have to pick one, is what do we have to give up for a legit piece of either kind? It's gonna cost a lot more to get a bat. And we have no chips. You can you can pluck. a setup man from a non contender pretty easily. ⁓ you know, those those deals are always out there at the trade deadline. ⁓ so I I I think of that and I'm just like great yeah, great idea, but how how how how do we get an effective speaker-0: Yeah, I mean i it would not surprise me if they try to fortify the bullpen because of the cost. and and you know, relief pitching is always expensive at the trade deadline, but relatively speaking, compared to an impact bat, it's gonna be a lot less expensive, especially if it's a rental ⁓ But that's where they need to flex their financial power as well, is if a guy's making more money than ⁓ other teams would want to potentially take on, they they can stand out and take that hit financially. And that's where they need to step up because speaker-1: Don't have them more. speaker-0: Ooh. ⁓ if you can get me off a Trake Turner's contract, absolutely. But I don't think that's gonna happen. speaker-2: Well let's speaker-1: I can I just mention one thing, could be thirty seconds. ⁓ somebody wrote a full article and I wish I remembered who it was, but ⁓ Andrew Painter for Ranger Suarez was was really speculated heavily, just a nice thought exercise this past week. I would do it in a heartbeat, just curious about what you guys would do. speaker-2: Yeah, I'm still pissed that they let Suarez walk, frankly. I kn I was I was really, really annoyed by that because I knew they didn't have the starting pitching depth and I knew they were gonna count on Andrew Payner to give him a hundred and eighty innings and I said it was a terrible idea, so yeah, you the best time to not do that would have been in the offseason. The second best time is now. Change it. I yeah, in a heartbeat. Mike? speaker-0: Depends on how much money it is. I I just don't think I don't think that is the type of deal they're looking to make, but because of the long term impact, not just the the immediate I mean that's a that's four more years after this. ⁓ at twenty six million per year. So it's it's not a cheap deal. they've put themselves in a situation where long term that's an issue. In the short term they could absolutely suck it up for one year and do it. It's ⁓ the matter of how do you handle a rotation where five guys are making twenty five million dollars or more. speaker-2: It would also just be, above all else, a hilarious admission of how terribly they fucked up. To be unwilling to give Ranger Suarez that contract in free agency and then be like, not only will we take it on now, but we will give you the guy that we thought was going to replace him. it would just like ego would never allow it, but it yeah, and if I could make that happen by snapping my fingers, ⁓ I would. I miss that man terribly. I love Ranger Suarez. speaker-0: Honestly, I'm sh I'm curious if Boston would do it. I like I I don't I don't even know if they would. Yeah. They could get more. speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, they they obviously like Ranger Suarez, they just gave him that contract on purpose. Nobody forced him to do it. And he's been good for them. So why would they be interested in turning around and dealing him? ⁓ I don't think we'll get Ranger Suarez, but perhaps his teammate Araldus Chapman will be on his way to Philadelphia. We'll keep an eye out for that. ⁓ that is all the time we have for this episode. ⁓ I want to thank you guys for ⁓ for hopping on, you guys for listening. And now that we're on the audio platforms, do me a favor, if you're on one of those, I think you still gotta you gotta subscribe and leave a review. Leave a review. And if you're on YouTube, leave a comment. I don't care. If you made it to the end of this video, leave a comment. Even if the comment is mean. I don't care. The algorithm rules what happens here. And you need to leave a comment because then it'll make YouTube think that this shit other people would want to leave comments. You understand how this works. Help us out here. ⁓ until next time. That's Mike Sambuco. That's Carl Bakudi. I'm Pat Barker. Go fill. speaker-1: Go fell. speaker-0: Go fells.