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What I've Learnt - Ilana Maizels · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well Alana was nearly fifty when diagnosed with ovarian cancer almost five years ago.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: She says my birthday was coming up, and I never celebrate my birthday normally, but for my 50th, I said, this is what I want to spend with my friends and family.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: We started thinking about a nice gathering as well as an overseas trip.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: We had so many plans I don't even remember them now.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Then cancer came and changed things, she says.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: At the time I was going through menopause and there were a lot of changes happening to my body.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: My period was getting lighter and lighter, but it hadn't stopped completely.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: I sometimes felt bloated and I'd lose my appetite.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'd forget to have lunch.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Those kinds of things, but I started to realise that I had some few symptoms like unusual bleeding that I thought maybe I should actually check with my gynecologist.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the story then became quite complex and quite challenging.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now in remission, Alana is speaking as one of the honoured Witchery White Shirt campaign ambassadors to campaign to raise awareness and funding for the ongoing development of an early detection test.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Last year I spoke with head scientist Dr.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Marie Blussick.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: That was on the pod last year and very interesting because she gave us the scientific perspective.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, today we're going to talk with Alana about her very personal joint journey towards recovery and towards healing.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: She says, I think one of the most important things when you go through something like this is not to disconnect yourself from your community, your family, or your workplace.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's very important to your well-being.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Alana, you have been on quite a journey.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm looking forward to hearing your story.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I note that when I was reading your research, um, you made a comment, and it, you know, this is what you said.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I had cancer and it consumed my life for a little while, but in the end, I'm not defined by my cancer.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was just something that happened to me.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to talk to you about that because I think that's a really important place to start.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, Alana, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Deborah.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Debbie.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Eva's fine.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's Debbie.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: I love Debbie.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um you're so funny.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Alana, you know, we're talking about, you know, a serious topic, but I think this is a very important place to start.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe, maybe tell us a little bit about your journey and what happened five years ago.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I was nearly turned 50.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's more than five years.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh six and a half years now since I wrote.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um yeah, I just uh had an unusual bleeding one day.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't usual for me because you know, uh you get to a start, you get a stage when you're menopausal that you don't get to have the period you used to have when you were a young woman, and um it was nearly faded almost to nothing, and suddenly I got this crazy uh bleeding, which I wasn't sure why I have it now.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I thought I'd done with it, why it's coming again.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was really like um I had uh to ask myself, is that okay?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's not okay.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Usually I'm not a person who gets really stressed from um, you know, from not hypochondriac.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this person always thinks about his health or not at all.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was always kind of very uh chilled about, you know, I never thought, I never think about bad things that can happen.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was kind of optimistic, I would say.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't have anything in mind.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I thought maybe I should ask my doctor.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's just very unusual.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why it's five days, it's it's lasted for five days.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then I said it's it's it was a little bit alarming for me.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I thought it's not okay, like how suddenly this is happening.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, after a long time, I haven't seen it.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the first thing that made me call my gynecologist.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh he, of course, on the phone he said to me, Look, could be anything, you know, women have all sorts of things, and not always we know why, but the best thing I ask you is to come here and I'll check you.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, I just had someone who canceled at two o'clock.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I remember very, very, very uh vividly that I was talking to him at nine o'clock in the morning, and then he said at two o'clock, someone literally just before you was supposed to come here.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: She can't, if you want to come at two o'clock, it's available.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he was a very busy doctor.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like always, you can't get as they all are, yeah.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: You can't get an appointment, which is an issue in itself, yeah.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, it's two o'clock.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: I looked at my calendar because I also had a very busy time at work, and I said, Okay, I can come, it's kind of my lunchtime.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go and just go and see him in instead of lunch today.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and I said, I can't say no to that.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I did went to him.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So he very, very, I would say, in first few moments that he checked me, he said, Oh, I feel like there is a large cyst here and it doesn't look great for me.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't say anything at this stage.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I do want you to go and have uh ultrasound.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay, I'll do it next week or whatever.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: He said, No, no, no, you have to go now.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, What do you mean now?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have to go back to work.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just told everyone that I'm coming back to work.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I would advise you to um tell your work that you're not coming back and just go to do your uh ultrasound.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So he made all the arrangements for me to go.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: My I went to see him in Brighton and I went, and then he made sure I went to Hampton to one of his friends who is a doctor who can you know uh conduct the ultrasound.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just went there and did whatever he told me.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then he said to me, Oh, call your husband, ask him to come.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: I said, My husband is the other side of the city, I don't think he will come with me to you know to check up.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine, I I can handle it.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need I didn't even realize why he's asking me to go with my husband.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of my mind didn't want to go there.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's like almost like you were sort of in a denial of thoughts that there was something going wrong.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I went there.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, this doctor looked at the cis.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: I could see that she's not comfortable, and I said, Look, just talk to me.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a big girl, I can take it.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, look, it's not a great scene for me.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: There is a cis with the blood flow, and it's never a good sign, which I didn't know about any cis before and any confronting me.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, had you ever had cysts before?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no assists, no nothing.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: No history of any sort in this arena.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: So, this is what is why it's such a challenging cancer because it's so doesn't, it's not highly symptomatic and it's not necessarily it takes an you know, it doesn't present itself overtly.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's very yeah, it's it's it's um look at all the sims of the symptoms are hitting, uh hide away from you.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like almost like it's very vague.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: If I could give you all the list of the symptoms we should uh be aware of, you would say I've got them all, like because everyone like bloating.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: I read, you know, I read your your article like bloating and all of the things that you can get, as you say, with just even premenstrually or um through menopause, and that's the challenge, isn't it?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is because there's such indigestion, like who doesn't have indigestions or doesn't have bloating, or does it's like you can't even describe one of them or say, oh, you haven't had them as a as a woman at least once or twice or three times a week.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you never know.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I would never have any idea, but I did know all my love that I'm um kind of the high on high risk because we had a lot of um breast cancer in my family, my mom's side.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well that's an important factor, very important factor.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the history plays a part, yes, very much so.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's all who we are and what the gene we are carrying and all of that.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: So my family, it's it's interesting because my journey also I've had to discover a lot about my ancestors, my family, my my at least my mom family, because it's coming, it's coming from my mom's side of the family.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So uh my I had a sister who had breast cancer, she passed 18 years ago.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um she was my older sister, and she was um 37 when she passed.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: She had um very young, and she had three kids at the time.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Now they're all grown up, but um that's very, very young to lose correct mom, and yeah, and you to lose your sister.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, so that was that.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we we always knew that in my family there was aunties, my grandmother, my mom had cancer.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um was it ovarian cancer or breast cancer?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: So my mom was lucky because in her last when she had the last baby, they removed her ovaries because she had some complications.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: So this is actually what saved her.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I discovered that we carried, I'm the first one in my family to be diagnosed with the BRACA gene.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so nobody before me knew that we actually, or in my mom's side of the family, knew there is any gene issue.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: They knew there is a lot of women dying or having going through a rough time with breast cancer.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but uh in at that time when my sister was uh diagnosed, it was um because we so the bracket gene is really related to the Ashkenazi Jews.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And because what was really confusing for us was because we all um Sephardic, which we my my my my mom is from Casablanca from Morocco, and the reason I'm saying that because I didn't know how far they're gonna check the gene.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So because it's interesting, it's very related to the times we live right now, because you know, this is how I've been, you know, in in my mind was my my late sister Nita.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: She was they told her, Oh, you can't be part of this statistic because you come in.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that's all yeah, it was for our listeners.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Can we just clarify for our listeners who don't know the difference?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: So the Ashkenazi and the Sfadi, can you give some little snapshot just to explain so people understand?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, Jews were living in Eastern Europe or in Europe, European Jews, or there is the one who lived in the East, uh, in the in the in you know, in the Middle East or or in North Africa, like my parents.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Morocco, yeah.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so um different places.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Jews were, you know, they were all over the place.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh or or European so there's the Middle East heritage or there's the European heritage.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you come from the Svardi, which is the Moroccan African heritage.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: So you didn't see there was no radar to say, well, you may be the bracket gene may be an issue, yeah, and that you'd be susceptible.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas this is why it's interesting too that nobody raised that issue with all of the history that you're describing.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: But that's very important too, because it shows how we as women sometimes just, you know, like there's a system that maybe it's something should have been picked up earlier.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: And what can anyway, so continue.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So make it short because it was really long, because the whole thing of the gene came later on.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: So first I was diagnosed with uh ovarian cancer, and then in Kabrini, here in Australia, they said they advised me that I should go and have the gene tested.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, no, that's not possible because I'm you know I'm not a Shkenazi.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then one of them said to me, very right, and I said that I and now I feel like so ignorant.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I what why did I say that?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: It should have been uh something that I said because he he was right.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: He said, but how do you know when did your ancestor arrived in Morocco?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know, you don't you don't really know because it can go you know generation.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Correct, yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and no, and that was very smart.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I said to myself, how in Israel they didn't pick it up that actually it could have been a case that my ancestor came from Europe because there was some war in Europe or the pogrom or something bad happened, and they had to migrate to you know uh North Africa or Spain, because my ancestors actually coming from Spain, literally from Spain.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so probably along the line, you know, they came maybe from Europe and then you know they ended up in like today, you know, immigrants are there is immigrants all over the just think about think about Ukraine now, like you know, all these immigrants or sorry, all these uh refugees going from Ukraine and now they end up in Germany or I don't know in other countries or coming even to Israel or to the Middle East and you know, establish a new life and not coming back to their origin country.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So things are changing and you can't say you don't know who you are actually.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is what's actually I actually agree with you, Alana, and that's a very good point you raise because in some ways that becomes uh the migration issue means that you're right, we don't know where what our heritage is.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so for you, it it basically opened up this whole journey and world where you not only had to explore historically what was going on, but at the present and when you were dealing with the fact that you had been diagnosed in this way.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: What was your what was your first response and how did you cope with the news and what were the resources you felt you had both around you and medically in order to cope with such a challenging time?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: So medically I was literally I started my chemo sessions when they the die the result came from the gene testing, which was interesting.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was on already diving into the next or third chemo, third round of chemo, and then I get this news.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, not just that, you are also happened to carry the bracket in.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Oh, great, another good news.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so what's now?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was something that um so I was the first in my family because nobody, so that's by itself opened a Pandora box because um none of my siblings in Israel or other places, some of them live in America, and that none of them were tested or for the bracket gene.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So luckily, my my doctor here, she's brilliant, uh Jenny Senior, that she's really understands all the gene, the the whole genetic uh issue in families, and she knew about my sister.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing I I did when I came to Australia 18 years ago was uh 19 years ago now.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really a few months after my sister passed, was a doctor who came to visit us.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: When my sister passed, she said to me, I know um my sister told her that I'm going to Australia with my husband.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: She said to me, So I have one question for you.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I have one, I asked you for to do one thing for me and for yourself, is to find someone who's really great in that area in Brest, because we didn't think about ovarian cancer.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: She said, just go to the best expert in Australia and I can give you some names because I see them in conferences in Europe.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So she already before I came to Australia, I already had in my name I go to Jenny Sr.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because uh Professor Peret from Hadassah told me you have to see her.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: She's the best, and tell her that your sister was my patient, and I can exchange any knowledge that she needs about your family.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that was that was already uh her sort of like, I suppose, noting that there may be a genetic component.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, which I didn't know.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there was no evidence.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that there is high risk.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that in fact that we are, and you they don't test you unless this is also something I've learned.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: They don't test you unless you become uh you you become sick.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: You see, it's not no one will give you any uh you maybe I could pursue it myself, but I never thought it's an issue because why?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they told us that there is no way I can be, so I just left it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even, I don't what I said before, what you read about me before or said before before that it's true.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to be defined by all these things, you know.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So what I if you and then you start getting into all you you fear from getting sick, and then you start thinking about it too much.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I was also conscious, I think, not to go too much and and and just know the fact that I need to know.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in good hands.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I go to the right doctors and the right gynecological, the best gynecologist I could find.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And he was really the best because he literally saved my life.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I could something good I did.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I listened to someone who told me 20 years ago, go to a great one, don't compromise on any mediocre, whatever, someone who just started to be a gynecologist, go to someone who's really good.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was a uh a golden advice because I think that's what kept me alive, because he was the one who made me go and keep check.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, otherwise, I would probably not really uh check my symptoms.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's interesting what you say because this is all feeding back into the issue of an early detection test, which I mentioned I interviewed Dr.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Marie last year on the podcast at this time.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: And the importance and one of the problems is I mean, obviously, we now have tests that we can go and we can get mammograms and we can do all of these things, even though, as we know, that is not always definitive.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we still need to cross-check.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of people say ultrasounds are the absolute key to ensuring that we're protected or detect you know, that these issues are detected.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: So what you're saying is it was only it's really because the symptoms are so vague, you didn't know.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Had you not maybe been a little have your radar up and know that you needed to get something checked, you otherwise were just trying to live your life and not get too bogged down with the fact that there was some, you know, your mum had experienced cancer, your sister.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's an interesting notion in itself, because we really need to get this early detection test ASAP so that we can actually prevent people getting to the point where they're symptomatic.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's only then that we do that we do some examination.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you know you have to know your history.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh I I always feared from a breast cancer because my sister had breast cancer.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think about ovarian cancer at all.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was like not in my mind at all.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I thought all the time, oh, I hope I won't get what my sister had.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it was um yeah, it that was I went to Gin, and that's why I went to someone who's really good.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: She I used to do the mammograms and and you know, whenever I needed to do them.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I oh you know, and then she introduced me the MRIs, I did MRIs.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: She said it's more accurate.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I went and did MRIs.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I did whatever I was told in any area, but I tried not to, you know, be too consumed by it.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and the whole ovari the ovarian cancer was really like uh a big shock to my system because I'm simply because I didn't think about it, because I didn't think it's actually can happen to me, because I didn't know I'm carrying the gene.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the gene where anyone who carried a brachogene can have either or breast cancer or ovarian cancer.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, so so for you, once you started chemotherapy and you you went on the journey, and I know that was particularly difficult.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um what were some of the tools that you used and how how uh resourceful um were what was the medical environment for you?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Did you find there were enough resources, do you think, that were getting better at supporting and looking after women going through chemo and through the pretty tough journey?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I have to say, before you know the process to get the results, and then there is the treatment, the you know what you know, your the expert or the doctor saying this is should be your um routine right now to the next six, seven months from now on.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then there is after.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's completely everything is three so it's three segments.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think the first one to get the right diagnose, uh, and and to go to the best.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I went to the best people that I know um to help me, and I read a lot.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I also uh Used a lot of contacts that I knew also in Israel that are really great in their field, and they uh advised me almost a similar advice that I got here.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew I'm in good hands.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I did whatever I can.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, you go every avenue that you can to find the best.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, actually resource.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized whatever they this is what they can offer.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing else anywhere you go in the world.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is even the Maya Clinic in America, they offer the same thing.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Everywhere you go, this is what they offer as a as a treatment.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: There is not something else.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't develop anything else since many years now.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: So there's practical.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Australia is what you're saying is Australia is pretty good.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's important to know, as good as it can be.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: But what you're saying is development still needs to continue and expand, but but it's pretty as good, it's as good as anywhere in the world that you advanced and have all the whatever happened in the world, they will know it here.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not where it's not there's no something that they don't know here.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I think here they're more advanced in in uh testing and and and doing the um you know the the gene testing is more more and and more uh advanced here.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish uh that every country will practice now.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't have to wait till someone gets sick to test him.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you happen to know about family tree, that it's shown like so many cases of cancer, like my family.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why would you not check them?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because there is no coincidence, like it can't be my aunties and my my late uh uh great uh great-grandmother and my mother and my and my grandmother.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you should check that.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, families know everyone family knows how many aunties or how many uh you know, uh women in the family had cancer.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: If it's uh so my late, late uh grandmother, she didn't know that she had uh ovarian cancer.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: She thought she has like a problem with her tummy all the time, and she was old and she went and complained, and the doctor said, Oh, it's just old women, you know, to just complain about.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it was too late when they opened her up, it was like spread all over, and she didn't last for much, really.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that that's an interesting point, though.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that the medical fraternity is getting better at actually responding, particularly with awareness campaigns and the impact of, you know, like things like the white shirt campaign, there is a movement of women saying, let's listen to what women are saying, let's listen to their symptoms, let's listen to what's happening.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that's better?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, better than your great-grandmother or your grandmother's generation?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I told my daughters to go to a female doctor.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think I really believe that women should treat women.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you why, because I've learned a few things, you know, when they go to medical uh uh school, they all the tests they're doing on uh, you know, it's on not on women.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, when you go to your GP, you might I mean I trust everyone had a great uh you know um knowledge and they they're very smart, but I think it's very different when you explain someone to a woman like you or to a GP who's uh who is not a female, he doesn't really relate to what you're saying.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, very hard to explain, you know, I'm bloated.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Yeah, maybe you she ate too much, you know, maybe she's gassy.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, they don't understand.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're how they they can relate to your issues.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I I do hear you, I I know exactly what you're saying, and I have daughters as well, as you know.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's a really good point.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: And my daughter's also just graduated medicine, and we talk about this whole issue of female doctors, and also that's another story, that's a whole other trajectory because it's also about we need good female doctors for this very reason.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's also challenging to go into specialties and all of that, but that's a separate issue.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I I do hear what you're saying.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: But even today, after aftermath, I I still find that when I go to a doctor now, and you know, if you go through menopause, you try to describe to someone what you go through, like you know, how you can't lose weight anymore, and how you, you know, change of your moods or uh you can't sleep at night.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then there's it's like there should be something else there, you know, to provide, you know, the the support that women need.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because, first of all, our mom did a big mistake not talking about that at all.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: But what they went through, they probably went through the same thing, but they kept 100%.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't talk about it.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, because they were much more, there was a sense of stoicism, and I think that's also a really big thing because I think women are sort of taught be stoic, you know.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: You have children, you can do anything, you know.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like yeah, yeah, childbirth, you know, you can do this, baby, you know, like it's really quite and there's an expectation that, and I think that goes to all of this, which is you know, if you're symptomatic and you're like, oh, you know, I'll be fine and and not not necessarily go to the doctor, what you did was the right thing because you you sensed something was not quite right, but it's also a little daunting because there's a sense of you know, a lot of women are like, you know, I'll be fine, I'll be right, because that's I think a lot of how we're raised.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: So And not just that, like some doctors won't diagnose that as such, and they will say, Oh, you know, it can be, you know, um, it's okay, it's gonna pass, and they won't take it seriously.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do then?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's really important to have someone who can actually be tuned and uh listen to to you because luckily, because my my uh gynecologist, he knew me.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I wasn't like I'm I'm not that you know precious.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't go to with every I'm pretty resilient most of the time.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't the type of woman who you know gets scared from everything.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: So he knew me that um if I come to him, something is actually happening because I'm uh and it's it's not like I'm suddenly become this paranoic and and I just need to be checked today.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's because I felt like there is something weird here and it's really bothering me.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: I and it's not like I even I always, you know, sometimes I think to myself, why I actually I don't even remember, I can't even determine to myself why I picked up the phone and called him that day because I never called him.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was going, you know, I book a I book just an appointment.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and well, because you sensed, I mean, that maybe also goes to women's intuition.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: But but coming back to the actual process that you went through, do you think that the support systems you've indicated, you did your own research, once you were diagnosed, you did the best you could to get the best treatment, which would probably make sense.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And what for you was the most challenging time?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure there were many.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but I you know, I did read that you, you know, obviously the chemo was very challenging for you, which is understandable because everyone speaks about how tough that is.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that you what is it that you drew on to get you through that time?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: A few things.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, what worked for me was um first of all, there was a lot of help around, and I was blessed with my family, my my my husband was unbelievable.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: My girls, I think the toughest thing is to admit to your family that you are sick and you are in need.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's something that none of them knew that I can get to this point.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that was hard for me to be uh taking this role of a patient.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't, um I couldn't see myself as such, which was really weird.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Also, because I've, you know, it's not something that you can see, like it's a you know, it's it's not something that yeah, like a broken leg, or you know, there's nothing there.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and one day you're okay, and the next day someone said to me, Oh, you're actually sick, and you don't feel sick at all.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't feel sick, if anything, I felt like this isn't they're talking about someone else.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like out-of-body experience, like who they're talking about.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here, I don't even feel what they're saying.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's really weird.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that was that was hard for me, not but maybe um, and later on, I think it's just that you don't want your family to be worried about you all the time.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: That was something I could not see, like um, you know, making them uh upset.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: That was upsetting me if I see them upset.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll I used to, you know, leave it to myself not to because not that I I was not counting on them, but I didn't want them to be like, you know, in this place.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh it was a tough place to be when you see your loved ones looking at you.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what's gonna happen now?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: That what that was the toughest thing for me.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I think that's common for women.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really common.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think women tend to, and mothers and wives, we tend to just want to like we'll be right, we'll get through it, we'll be okay.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so I understand that would have been challenging to just sort of, I suppose, let your guard down and go, I'm vulnerable right now, and that's okay to lean on your family.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and friends, it's just that it's it's so much, and then it became like, how do you tell people?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much going on.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you want to bring the how do you bring the news?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: You barely you have to deal with it, and then you have to bring the news to others.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's also very hard.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you tell?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: To what degree you tell people when you don't even know, because they don't tell you, are you gonna be?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what stage I am.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they never told me what stage I am.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my in my situation, first they did the operation, they took everything out, and uh, that was also a big issue because you know, you go there, you get all the information, and then your professor asks you, oh, would you like to take one ovary or two ovaries?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or and I and I said, What do you mean?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: You don't take two of them.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, you can leave one, we can take just the one with the cyst that has the blood flow in it, you know, we can take that and the other one, you still need it because you know you're still young and you you you want your ovary to work because it's also related to hormone release, and you know, later on it can affect your heart, can affect your you know, uh early menopause.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: You mean to expedite your menopause.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: It can be a lot of, you know, you have to make a lot of to process.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a lot to process.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I say, okay, um, no, take them, both of them, because uh we I just didn't know at the time why I said both of them.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you why, because that was in my the back of my mind, like my sister had uh breast cancer in one, in one, so she had cancer in one of her breasts, and then she said to her, I don't want to have uh double mastectomy, I just want to have one of them just removed, you know, the the whole thing, and then it happened to come to the next after four years.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that is real.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: But that was like many, many years ago, and and then that was that's why you probably thought, no, like just get both out.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't know when I told him that why I said that.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's it actually dawned on me later on when you process, you're saying, Oh baby, why did I said to him to take both?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: He he himself said to me, No, you know, you don't have to.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you can have you can have one.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, just take both of them.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want tomorrow you're gonna tell me there is one another problem coming here.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to get rid of it, and and that's it.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: So they did operation.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was like literally in December before end of the year.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was the he's oh, he always said to me, You're the last operation of the year.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was he is my my doctoral operation, the last one.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then on Christmas Day, so he calls me on Christmas Day on the morning to tell me the results because it all went to a biopsy.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: They took whatever they took from, you know, they removed everything, and he rang me.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Have you ever done any betting and in your life?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, I'm not a person who liked betting so much.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: But betting?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, right, yeah, gambling, yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like gambling.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yeah, what do you mean?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I have a I have a, you know, like they said to you, you have a good news and a bad news.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, let's start from the bad news, and then I'll leave the good news for later.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Well, it is cancerous and it's a varian cancer.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: The good news, what is the what can be good now?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Well, it's not what we thought, it's not the cyst, the cyst was benign, cyst was fine.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: There was nothing in the ovary, in the right ovary.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Are you serious?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, right.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: The this the the cancer was on my my left ovary.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's ex- I've got goosebumps, that's incredible.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't the cyst that you first went in for.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's nothing to do with the cyst was fine.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: He said that actually the finding was shocking for him and his team.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And since then, he's uh he's saying, I never say any, I always advise any woman in like in your situation, just take it and don't leave both of them.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Although that wasn't a practice before me.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and I said, Well, it was like I just couldn't believe that he said that.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, So miracle.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if if you hadn't, mind you, I suppose they would have checked both, but the fact that you great, you know, you'd said take both, it is that is quite an incredible story, and it just shows, like in some ways, I suppose medicine knows some things, but really until they go and see what's going on.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: For two for two days, I could not believe that this is actually what what he's telling me.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Are you sure?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Yes, I'm positive it wasn't the one with the C.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, I'm myself learning it, and I can't believe that I'm saying that to you because I'm the one who asked you to pick up one, not to pick up two ovaries.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, Mana, that's an incredible story that is.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: I just can't believe that.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I and till today I don't believe why, because I'm not the person like you go and chop my another ovary.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never it was just I think it was something in the back of my mind, which I I think happened from my late sister.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that was uh something that my conscious or my subconscious were telling me.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like, yeah, that is that is really extraordinary.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a pretty big thing to go through anyway, uh, a hysterectomy and to have the whole.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, was there enough, did you feel supported through that next step of the journey?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's a lot to process.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Look, during the chemo, I mean, the staff at the hospital, they're amazing and they provide you whatever you need, um, like nutritionists, or you need any psychologists, or you need anyone to talk to.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose I chose to go to someone during the because I want I wanted to have a space which is will be just mine, not with other people, that I can be completely myself and deal with it in the most confronting way I can, not to hide, you know, and not to play any role, you know, a mom or a sister or a wife, or you don't, you just can be myself and whatever is there, just put it out there.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: Would you advise that to people going through something like this?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that's a really valid point that you've just highlighted, is that in your relationships when you're going through something traumatic, that that you carved that space with your therapist separately, and that that was critical because then you didn't have to play the roles that you were playing to protect all the people around you.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's a it's a tough, it's a tough place because um, first of all, the first thing you want to do all the time is to protect your the people your loved ones.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt that my husband had to work twice hard, you know, he has the family because I stopped, you know, being uh I stopped function in a way that I functioned before, like I don't cook anymore, I don't clean, I don't do anything that I used to do.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: So he everything has to be his.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that my daughters and and and washing and and you know, looking after the girl, doing everything else.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, I don't need to bother him with my, you know, with my mental issues right now.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's too much, really.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can't just what what else I can tell him?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm feeling horrible today.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm you know, I'm I'm very upset because you know, you can be upset because most of the time you don't know if the you know if the treatment is actually working, and they don't tell you.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of the frustrations I had throughout the the the treatment.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: They they tell you very vaguely about your situation.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: So um, because so yes, they remove the ovaries, but they don't know if there is any residue there, you know, and they can be developed to a cancer again.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: There is more cells there that active, or they couldn't tell me that.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: They just we just removed whatever we saw, whatever we can, but now it's pretty much we have to have the treatment just to make sure we will kill whatever is there, just to and it's one of the things I've learned also the treatment for ovarian cancer hasn't changed for many, many years, and it's very, very uh harsh.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like all the breast cancer change a lot, and there is immune therapy, there is a lot of other things, but not with uh ovarian cancer.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing changed.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same, same routine, same, same procedure, same drugs, basically.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that is really important to highlight that.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, why is that?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: Why has that not changed in all this time?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that to do with funding?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's only to do with funding, and apparently it's I think just breast cancer get a lot of attention, and but not enough for ovarian cancer.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of women die from ovarian cancer.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's really the the uh numbers are staggering.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know, you get uh every eight hours a woman will die from covarian cancer in Australia.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Eight hours, every eight hours.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that must be one of the highest.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how that compares with the breast cancer rates, but that is a pretty high statistic.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: So their survival rates, I can tell you, like 46% uh survival rates, which is nothing compared to.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think with uh with breast cancer is 82 now.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's just with ovarian cancer, unless you are being diagnosed between one stage one or two, if you go above that, your um survival rates are you know are slim.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's you you don't get to complete five years, which is very and that's very distressing.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the ovarian cancer campaign, I mean, that's certainly the Witchery White Shirt campaign is phenomenal, and it's definitely putting the whole issue in the media and and obviously this campaign at the moment with Pip and with all of your all of the ambassadors.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to me a bit about that and what the main mission is there, because you obviously are an ambassador, which is yeah, kind of wonderful.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: The main mission is to find if what we would like, you you know, for Maurice, she's amazing, they're doing an amazing job.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think now the mission is to find a test.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have a test, a proper test, you know, that you can and reliable test that can tell you or can predict that you're actually having the uh ovarian cancer, or you don't have it, or you don't have any chance to get it at all, you know.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I think now they are focusing on developing a test, which is I think has to has to be developed.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think they are in a in a crucial place when it's almost uh almost there.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: But the funding is is actually that it's so much, they need a lot of money to uh to develop it.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a lot.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: So so you know, I think this is so important.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: And also I think awareness, because women don't understand it at all.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Occasionally I talk to people women and they oh, a pup smear, I did a pup, and it's not a pup smear.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, you know, it's not what it's not uh you it's not very I don't understand.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Most women don't even know where their ovaries are.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Can I tell you?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: I had this discussion this morning with the women who did my hair.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: She asked me, so and I said, No, have you ever seen how you know it looks like?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because women don't look how their organs in the you know, the inner organs look like, you know, you have to look at it, they're hanging there out there.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to look at it and see where are they, what are they functioning for, what are they doing for you?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so what I find it's incredible that people don't like women don't know that is just a sign of just how important this awareness campaign is because really then they can't be conscious of what symptoms might be present and where and
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's not easy, you know, because you know, we all live our life and we think everything will be fine.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we don't know exactly how you know our heart is working, you know, we know more or less, but we don't know all the you know how it functions every day and what the hard work that our heart is doing every day in order for us to to be healthy.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just it's just one of the things that it's not happening to you, maybe you don't pay a lot of attention to it.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then when it happened to you, you have to pay attention, you have to look absolutely.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: And what would you say, Alana, to those who are listening about one, how can they assist with um funding and and where can they donate at the which the the the white shirt campaign?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: One and two, what would you advise them in terms of keeping an eye out for symptoms or visiting their doctor or going to their gynecologist or obstetrician or whoever it is that they they need to visit?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: What have you got any thoughts around that?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'll start from from the from the last bit of the question is about I think women know well when something is going wrong with them.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we are the one knowing ourselves, no one else can come and tell you, you know, if it's unusual bloating that going on for a week.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or once I went with my husband and we went to a dinner, and I I remember uh we were driving to this restaurant and I had very small lunch, which I I knew I had, but on the way I felt like, oh, I'm so bloated.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: How can I bloat?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't eat much today.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I I remember opening my the button of my my my uh trousers, my pants.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: And my husband reminded me later, much later, after I was diagnosed, that actually I did, I was bloated, but I didn't realize.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I thought maybe it was something I dreamed.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you thought you'd eaten something or drunk something.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's interesting, yeah.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: But was there was some science that actually could tell you that you know it's it's if it's consistent and it's you you keep getting them, don't be shy, don't be thinking that don't think that someone will make fun of you or who cares, just go and check it.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if someone said that you're crazy, say they're crazy.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I think it's just you know, women knows and they need to be aware of something wrong going on with your body and just go and check it.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: Just that's simple as that.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's hard to pinpoint, you know, before there is multiply of you know of um uh different signs, but whatever you can pick up that it's unusual, um, don't don't leave it to yourself, don't you know, don't beat up yourself and just if you if you're split or you don't know what to do, go and ask someone who knows, and it's it's it's okay.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Even if they're not understanding you, it's fine.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's a very important piece of advice.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: And for those who would like to contribute or be part of the Witchery White Shirt campaign, of which you're an ambassador.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if anyone buy the shirt, the white shirt of Witchery, they're doing an amazing job, all the proceeds of their the income coming from selling those shirts going straight to OCRF and for funding their research.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a great cause.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just nothing um better than that.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you were, if you know that you wear something that it's gonna be meaningful for you, it's not just you know, you can save life by buying this shirt, and obviously they can go on their website and donate if you want to give a little bit more.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's always gonna be better.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: But first of all, if we can all, as women, at least buy the shirt and and um that's this act actually gonna be so impactful on the research.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a great piece of advice, and we will all go out and get our white shirts, which I think were designed by Pip.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Pip Edwards, she's incredible.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she and I I think it's great that women come together, and it's just that she has um a place in their heart to do something so important.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's also for me to see all these, you know, people can say, you know, there's a lot of celebrities, it's nice for them to be out there, but it's more than that, you know, it's like if you um, you know, connect yourself to such a an amazing um uh course, you know, to save life mainly.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's everyone should be like really be praised and and good for I mean I can't for for me it's like you know, whatever you do tomorrow to save someone else's life life, it's uh it's precious.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's there's nothing better than that.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like I agree, Alana.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, you coming on the What I've Learned podcast is such a privilege for our listeners and also raises awareness um about the campaign, about the issues, and about your personal journey, which I really thank you for sharing your very personal story in such a beautiful way.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Look, thank you, first of all, for inviting me.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it wasn't easy for me, but I I always say to myself, if I got a second chance, I have to share uh spread the love because it's not um something I take for granted that I was giving another uh whatever life I can get now, you know.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was quite, it's quite, it's it's a it's a life-changing um uh uh experience.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you see things very differently.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's always, you know, people say it's a cliche, you know, you change.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't change, I'm still the same person, but I do feel there is an obligation to be more um sincere about the way I see life and not to you know take it so for granted because it's easy to go this way and forget that it could have ended up differently.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank goodness you are here to tell this beautiful story and to be so authentic in the way that you actually share it with us is a great privilege.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks, Alana, and it's so good to see you and you take care.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, you're beautiful for doing so.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Love to all your family and cheers.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Dam.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly, with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind and curious.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.