Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Boy, 5, FOLDED DEAD IN A SUITCASE, MOMMY STILL ON THE RUN

Transcript

Boy, 5, FOLDED DEAD IN A SUITCASE, MOMMY STILL ON THE RUN · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Somebody knows something well. Truer
0:18
Speaker 1: words were never spoken. And then in the case of
0:22
Speaker 1: a boy in a suitcase, a little boy, a beautiful
0:28
Speaker 1: little boy literally found in a suitcase dead. When the
0:35
Speaker 1: case first hit the headlines, it was quite the furor.
0:40
Speaker 1: A classic Las Vegas Welcome to Las Vegas suitcase with
0:45
Speaker 1: the iconic sticker on the side was found seemingly out
0:49
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere in the woods in Salem, Indiana,
0:53
Speaker 1: his small body stuffed into a Welcome to the Fabulous
0:56
Speaker 1: Las Vegas suitcase? Is this real? The prime suspect, his
1:04
Speaker 1: mom still on the run. An entire year after this
1:10
Speaker 1: taught's body found stuffed in a suitcase. I mean to see, Grace,
1:16
Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
1:18
Speaker 1: here at Foxcination in Serious XM one eleven. I will
1:22
Speaker 1: never forget it. This little child, beautiful little boy, found
1:28
Speaker 1: dehydration the cause of death caused by gastro territis. What
1:35
Speaker 1: a painful and slow suffering death this five year old
1:41
Speaker 1: boy had. And now we know who is the purp.
1:45
Speaker 1: The purp is his own mother. Why is she still
1:50
Speaker 1: on the run? How is she able to outsmart police, FBI,
1:55
Speaker 1: bounty hunters, dog trackers, the works, or are are they
2:00
Speaker 1: simply not focusing on apprehending her as a little five
2:05
Speaker 1: year old boy somehow lost in the shuffle. It's his
2:10
Speaker 1: life less important than other people's. Do you remember the
2:16
Speaker 1: man hunt or should I say woman hunt for Caitlin
2:20
Speaker 1: Armstrong accused of gunning down a beautiful pro cycler Mariah
2:28
Speaker 1: because of a love triangle. They trunck Armstrong down all
2:32
Speaker 1: the way in disguise in Costa Rica. Oh yeah, they
2:35
Speaker 1: found her because it was the high profile case. But
2:38
Speaker 1: seemingly nobody cares about this little four feet tall, slim built,
2:44
Speaker 1: short hair little boy for so long an unknown angel.
2:52
Speaker 1: Listen to our friend's whas now.
2:54
Speaker 2: The discovery was made by a person hunting for mushrooms
2:57
Speaker 2: over the weekend. Also new today, autopsy was performed. We
3:01
Speaker 2: do know that police day the boy is only five
3:03
Speaker 2: to eight years old. They had that he could have
3:05
Speaker 2: been from anywhere, not just southern Indiana. Investigators say they
3:09
Speaker 2: have been searching the wooded area where the boy was found,
3:11
Speaker 2: but the information has not led them to any answers.
3:14
Speaker 1: And that is how the mystery, the puzzle began. But
3:19
Speaker 1: I'm still overwhelmed by just the words. A little boy
3:24
Speaker 1: folded up dead in a suitcase, a Vegas suitcase found
3:29
Speaker 1: in Indiana, but they have no idea where this little
3:33
Speaker 1: boy was from. Take a listen to our friends at
3:36
Speaker 1: wd RB right now.
3:38
Speaker 3: Indiana State Please isn't giving too many details on this case,
3:42
Speaker 3: but investigators do believe that somebody out there knows something
3:45
Speaker 3: that can help them figure out who this child wants.
3:48
Speaker 4: We are looking for the public's help and finding out
3:50
Speaker 4: the name of this child, this little boy who deserves answers.
3:53
Speaker 5: He deserves our help.
3:55
Speaker 3: Sergeant Carrie Hols said Saturday night, a mushroom hunter in
3:58
Speaker 3: the woods in rural Washington County discovered the body of
4:01
Speaker 3: a young boy.
4:02
Speaker 4: He noticed something and went to investigate, and that's what
4:04
Speaker 4: he found. So very disturbing, very shocking, very traumatic event,
4:08
Speaker 4: very sad event.
4:09
Speaker 6: The man who found this boy, Jeff Meridith, is in
4:12
Speaker 6: agony knowing he was one of the last people to
4:16
Speaker 6: see this child's face.
4:17
Speaker 5: When I first saw that little fella, immediately I felt
4:22
Speaker 5: that he was telling me, help me, I need help.
4:29
Speaker 1: It sounds like it's out of an Agatha Christie mystery.
4:33
Speaker 1: A mushroom hunter, how likely is that? Very unlikely? Finds
4:39
Speaker 1: a suitcase, opens a suitcase and finds a little boy
4:44
Speaker 1: dead inside. The first place you start is what was
4:47
Speaker 1: the cod cause of death? Listen, our friends, whas eleven, a.
4:51
Speaker 7: Boy found dead in southern Indiana, remains nameless. His story
4:55
Speaker 7: and the suitcase he was found in have gained national attention,
4:59
Speaker 7: hundreds tips submitted and still no answers except for one.
5:04
Speaker 6: We now know how the boy died.
5:06
Speaker 4: At this time, there's no evidence, then leads investigators to
5:10
Speaker 4: believe that he was alive when he went into the suitcase.
5:12
Speaker 6: Sergeant Carrie Hole says investigators got the autopsy and toxicology
5:17
Speaker 6: reports on May twentieth, seven days later, they share this
5:21
Speaker 6: unnamed boy died from an electrolyte imbalance.
5:24
Speaker 4: Most likely due to gastro enteritis, which in common Layman's
5:29
Speaker 4: term would be vomiting in diarrhea and that resulted in
5:32
Speaker 4: dehydration fatal dehydration.
5:35
Speaker 6: And he says the toxicology report found nothing significant.
5:38
Speaker 1: So if a little boy dies of vomiting and diarrhea,
5:43
Speaker 1: nobody noticed that he was vomiting and had horrible diarrhea
5:50
Speaker 1: till he was being starved. There was nothing in him anymore,
5:54
Speaker 1: and he just died. Where was he? And I guarantee
5:58
Speaker 1: it and crawl into a suitcase and die and close
6:02
Speaker 1: that suitcase and maneuver it into the woods in Indiana.
6:05
Speaker 1: That didn't happen. So we have a cod cause of death,
6:08
Speaker 1: but still no name. Well, that little boy now has
6:13
Speaker 1: a name. Listen to our friends at the Indiana State Police.
6:18
Speaker 4: At this time, we can also identify, excuse me, identify
6:23
Speaker 4: the young man that was found in the suitcase.
6:26
Speaker 1: He was Cairo Amar Jordan.
6:29
Speaker 4: Cairo Amar Jordan was from Atlanta, Jordan, Georgia.
6:32
Speaker 8: Excuse me.
6:33
Speaker 4: He was five years old at the time of his
6:35
Speaker 4: death and Cairo would have turned six on October twenty fourth. Again,
6:41
Speaker 4: Cairo Amar Jordan, he was five from Atlanta, Georgia.
6:44
Speaker 3: A man hunting for mushrooms made the discovery in Washington County,
6:48
Speaker 3: Indiana on April sixteenth, but it wasn't until today that
6:51
Speaker 3: investigators identified the little boy found inside as Cairo Jordan
6:56
Speaker 3: from Metro Atlanta. People who live in that Indiana community
6:59
Speaker 3: have weeded since bring for answers. They named the child Angel,
7:02
Speaker 3: and strangers were overcome with emotion as they held this
7:05
Speaker 3: memorial service forty six days after his body was found.
7:09
Speaker 3: Now their local mystery has turned into a nationwide search
7:12
Speaker 3: to find the child's mother.
7:14
Speaker 1: You were just hearing our friends at WSB too as
7:16
Speaker 1: well and with me an all star panel to make
7:18
Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now, including Max Lewis
7:22
Speaker 1: from Fox fifty nine in Indianapolis. But first I want
7:25
Speaker 1: to go to Detective Matt Busick joining us from the
7:30
Speaker 1: Indiana State Police. Detective Busick, thank you for being with us, Yes, man,
7:34
Speaker 1: thank you. Detective. Do you recall when you first learned,
7:38
Speaker 1: I mean, let me ask you something off point. Do
7:42
Speaker 1: you have children?
7:43
Speaker 8: Yes? We do?
7:44
Speaker 1: How many six? Actually I'm guessing one of those is
7:47
Speaker 1: a little boy.
7:48
Speaker 8: Yes, I have three boys and three girls.
7:49
Speaker 1: Do you recall when you first learned, Detective Music, that
7:53
Speaker 1: a five year old little boy weighed forty pounds was
7:59
Speaker 1: found full, folded up dead in a Vegas suitcase.
8:04
Speaker 9: Yes, ma'am. How I do you recall that?
8:06
Speaker 1: Tell me about it?
8:07
Speaker 9: Well, yes, it's very disturbing, Yes it is.
8:09
Speaker 1: I pictured my own children. To doctor Thomas Plant joining me,
8:13
Speaker 1: professor of psychology and Religious Studies, and you'll see why
8:18
Speaker 1: he is so very critical in our discussion today. Adjunct
8:22
Speaker 1: Professor of Psychiatry at Stanford University, Editor of Spirituality and
8:27
Speaker 1: Clinical Practice, author of Human Interaction with the Divine, Sacred Deceased,
8:33
Speaker 1: Doctor Plant, thank you so much for being with us.
8:35
Speaker 9: Well, thank you for inviting me.
8:36
Speaker 1: Yes, sir. When I first heard about a five year
8:39
Speaker 1: old boy folded over dead like an old coat in
8:43
Speaker 1: a suitcase, abandoned, no idea where he came from, and
8:48
Speaker 1: critically no one had reported him missing, all I could
8:53
Speaker 1: think about were my children, John, David and Lucy at
8:55
Speaker 1: age five, and how defenseless they were, Doctor Plant, does
9:02
Speaker 1: the nature of crimes like this ever keep you from
9:09
Speaker 1: a clearhead?
9:10
Speaker 9: Well, of course, we're all emotional human beings, and we
9:13
Speaker 9: all have emotional reactions, and we all can probably relate
9:17
Speaker 9: as parents, like yourself, like myself, and like so many others,
9:21
Speaker 9: to what would it be like to discover our own
9:25
Speaker 9: child in such an awful, horrific condition, And so, of
9:31
Speaker 9: course we always can relate, And yet we have to
9:35
Speaker 9: be objective and thoughtful and try to do the best
9:38
Speaker 9: we can to understand the situation and act accordingly.
9:42
Speaker 1: Straight out to Max Lewis, joining us reporter with Fox
9:45
Speaker 1: fifty nine in Indianapolis. Max. I'm sure you recall when
9:49
Speaker 1: this Vegas suitcase was first discovered in Indianapolis. With obviously
9:54
Speaker 1: you don't know whether the child is from Vegas or
9:56
Speaker 1: Indianapolis or somewhere else.
9:58
Speaker 10: It was shocking this kind of doesn't you know. We
10:01
Speaker 10: don't see this kind of thing every day. We rarely
10:04
Speaker 10: see this. And yeah, there were so many questions. It's
10:07
Speaker 10: such a mystery. Where is this kid from? Why was
10:09
Speaker 10: he found out in the woods in rural southern Indiana.
10:13
Speaker 10: There were just so many questions for so long, and
10:16
Speaker 10: police really, from what we could tell, had nothing to
10:19
Speaker 10: go on. And luckily they were able, you know, to
10:22
Speaker 10: find out some things and additionally give this this little
10:25
Speaker 10: boy in the suitcase the name.
10:38
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. Remember a man who was
10:42
Speaker 1: a mushroom hunting found the body of a little boy
10:45
Speaker 1: in a secluded wooded area Washington County, about eighty feet
10:49
Speaker 1: off a rural road in Indiana. It was April seventeen,
10:55
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, over one year ago. Police release in
11:00
Speaker 1: the case asking for help to id the child or parents.
11:04
Speaker 1: They announced a dedicated tip line for information one eight
11:08
Speaker 1: eight eight four three seven six four three two. They
11:12
Speaker 1: released information about the body about the suitcase. People living
11:16
Speaker 1: there in New Peaking came together for a vigil to
11:19
Speaker 1: show their support, praying his case would be solved. The
11:23
Speaker 1: child died from electrolyte imbalance, mostly due to vomiting and
11:27
Speaker 1: diarrhea leading to dehydration. The suffering this child endured. Steph Kramer,
11:36
Speaker 1: how do you go about how did they identify the
11:40
Speaker 1: body as little tyro.
11:42
Speaker 11: In this particular case. I think it was a combination
11:45
Speaker 11: of single prints that were on the suitcase. I think
11:49
Speaker 11: that was the meaning.
11:50
Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right, Steve Kramer. Steve joining us
11:53
Speaker 1: from Indago Solutions. Guys, take a listen to our friends
11:56
Speaker 1: at w SB.
11:57
Speaker 3: Thirty seven year old Dewan Anderson is now charged with
12:00
Speaker 3: murder as.
12:01
Speaker 4: That no crime scene evidence technologies were spared in this case.
12:06
Speaker 3: According to court documents, police identified Anderson through fingerprints on
12:10
Speaker 3: trash bags used to wrap the child's body, and autopsy
12:13
Speaker 3: report shows Jordan did not suffer any signs of physical trauma.
12:17
Speaker 4: The autopsy listed the cause of death as an electrolyte
12:20
Speaker 4: imbalance that caused a viral gastroonitis.
12:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that is dehydration of Police believe after dumping
12:27
Speaker 3: that body, that Anderson went to California with a woman
12:30
Speaker 3: named Don Coleman. Investigators were able to arrest Coleman in
12:33
Speaker 3: San Francisco, but they have yet to track down Anderson.
12:36
Speaker 3: They are still looking for her.
12:38
Speaker 1: So mommy's fingerprints, Steve Kramer, you called it, We're all
12:43
Speaker 1: over that trash bag. So I guess then, Steve Kramer,
12:47
Speaker 1: they find mommy and then they can deduce that it's
12:52
Speaker 1: baby Tyro. Was that your thinking, Steve.
12:54
Speaker 11: Yeah, Craig, that's I think the logical deducement. Once they
12:59
Speaker 11: did some additional background information on Anderson, I think it
13:04
Speaker 11: was clear that she was traveling apparently all over the
13:06
Speaker 11: country with her child and with her friend Don Coleman,
13:11
Speaker 11: whose fingerprints also I understand we're found on the suitcase.
13:15
Speaker 1: Oh okay, right there, Wait a minute, So Max Lewis
13:19
Speaker 1: joining us investigative reporter with Fox fifty nine. We know
13:24
Speaker 1: that mommy and her friend, her running buddy, left fingerprints
13:31
Speaker 1: all over the trash bag. But I mean, think about
13:36
Speaker 1: that image putting the child in a trash bag and
13:42
Speaker 1: in a suitcase and leaving it. Max Lewis, I want
13:47
Speaker 1: you to take a listen to our friends WLKY and THHR.
13:52
Speaker 12: On April fourteenth, investigators say cell phone towers and a
13:56
Speaker 12: home security camera plased Anderson and Coleman in Pekin in Indiana,
14:00
Speaker 12: near the wooded area where Jordan's body was found.
14:03
Speaker 4: This whole case is all about justice for Cairo. That's
14:07
Speaker 4: the only thing this case has ever been about.
14:09
Speaker 13: Investigators found a fingerprint on a trash bag in the
14:12
Speaker 13: suitcase with the boy's body in June. The fingerprint match
14:16
Speaker 13: was made to thirty seven year old to one Andersenter.
14:19
Speaker 13: Another fingerprint from the trash bag in the suitcase matched
14:22
Speaker 13: forty year old Don Coleman. The cell phones of both
14:25
Speaker 13: women placed them in the area of Peak in April fourteenth,
14:28
Speaker 13: two days before the suitcase was found. Coleman's social media
14:32
Speaker 13: accounts include photos and videos of her with a Las
14:35
Speaker 13: Vegas suitcase.
14:37
Speaker 1: Straight out to Max Lewis, so what role did cell
14:41
Speaker 1: phone pings play and the identification of the mother as
14:47
Speaker 1: a suspect.
14:48
Speaker 10: It played a huge role the police. You know, they
14:51
Speaker 10: were both in the Metro Louisville area for quite a while,
14:55
Speaker 10: and so once they sort of you know, got their fingerprints,
15:00
Speaker 10: made the connection to them. They started piecing all of
15:02
Speaker 10: this stuff together. They had, as you heard, been criscrossing
15:06
Speaker 10: the country together. Once they got into Louisville, they king there,
15:10
Speaker 10: which is close to where this suitcase was found in
15:14
Speaker 10: the wooded area, is not too far outside metro Louisville,
15:16
Speaker 10: and they used those cell phone powers and were able
15:19
Speaker 10: to show that they were in the exact vicinity where
15:22
Speaker 10: that suitcase was found. Obviously no coincidence there.
15:25
Speaker 1: And I bet anything jo Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics that
15:30
Speaker 1: the two cell phones were traveling together, the devil and
15:33
Speaker 1: the Devil's minion.
15:35
Speaker 8: Yeah, how do you get two people to enter into
15:37
Speaker 8: an agreement where they're going to do this to this
15:39
Speaker 8: baby like this? And Nancy, I don't want to gloss
15:43
Speaker 8: over this, this whole gastro enter ritis thing.
15:46
Speaker 1: Thank you. I don't either go ahead.
15:49
Speaker 8: As horrible as as it sounds, it would have been
15:51
Speaker 8: more more merciful if that even exists in this context,
15:56
Speaker 8: to put this baby out of his misery. Gastro enter eyes.
15:59
Speaker 8: Essentially what he had stomach flu and we can all
16:01
Speaker 8: identify with that, but it was untreated. Nancy. You remember
16:05
Speaker 8: when our babies were little and we'd go out and
16:06
Speaker 8: get them pedia light perhaps or make the peda light
16:09
Speaker 8: popsicles because they've got a tummy problem. And his bowel
16:13
Speaker 8: was so inflamed, and that's what they found at autopsy.
16:16
Speaker 8: That was what was evidence there. His bowel was so
16:19
Speaker 8: inflamed that it led to his death and he would
16:22
Speaker 8: have been vomiting. Plus he would have had severe stomach
16:25
Speaker 8: cramps where he would be doubled over. And probably the
16:28
Speaker 8: worst of this is that he would have had like
16:31
Speaker 8: explosive bowel movements as well explosive diarrhea essentially, and he
16:36
Speaker 8: was going, this is this is the horror. He's going untreated.
16:39
Speaker 8: They couldn't even give this baby electrolytes, which he can
16:42
Speaker 8: find in any number of things like pedia.
16:44
Speaker 1: Light, or take him to the dock in a box,
16:47
Speaker 1: no offense. All you MD's they hate being called that.
16:50
Speaker 8: Yeah, it would have been It would have been that simple.
16:52
Speaker 8: They could have just hung an IV on this baby
16:54
Speaker 8: and he would have potentially survived.
16:57
Speaker 1: But they stood by, sat by the two of these
17:00
Speaker 1: women and let him suffer like that. Just think about
17:04
Speaker 1: your intestines swollen, red, hurting. Why do you get that, J.
17:11
Speaker 8: Scott, It's as a result of this absence of electrolytes.
17:15
Speaker 1: Now, I mean, how do you get the diarrhea and
17:17
Speaker 1: the uncontrolled vomiting to start with? Where does that come from?
17:21
Speaker 8: Well, this is as a result of the viral gastroenterritis.
17:26
Speaker 8: And they're saying viral. So he literally had some type
17:30
Speaker 8: of virus in his body. Okay, like anra virus or
17:33
Speaker 8: one of these things that floats around that leads to
17:36
Speaker 8: a viral infection and many times it'll set in in
17:38
Speaker 8: your gut like this. And so as you're losing all
17:42
Speaker 8: of these fluids, he's becoming dehydrated, Nancy. So he's losing
17:45
Speaker 8: these little electrolytes. And there's a variety of them. You've
17:48
Speaker 8: got sodium and chloride and potassium. But basically they're kind
17:51
Speaker 8: of the guardrails that keep our heart functioning, our brain functioning.
17:56
Speaker 8: It keeps us you know, he could have had a seizure.
17:58
Speaker 1: Well, Scott, sorry to interrupt you, but according to Mommy,
18:02
Speaker 1: you're perfectly wrong. Oh really, because she believes it had
18:07
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the virus and it had everything
18:10
Speaker 1: to do with the devil. Take a listen to our cut.
18:16
Speaker 1: Thirty three.
18:17
Speaker 14: Wrnhas social media posts from both women that indicate they
18:23
Speaker 14: thought the boy was demon possessed. Eight days before the
18:26
Speaker 14: body was discovered, Coleman posted, nothing is what it seems,
18:30
Speaker 14: and we are catering to evil beings and children avatars
18:34
Speaker 14: that aren't even children, And five days before the body
18:37
Speaker 14: was discovered, Anderson posted, I have survived the death attacks
18:41
Speaker 14: from my five year old throughout the five years he
18:43
Speaker 14: has been alive. I have been able to weaken his
18:46
Speaker 14: powers through our blood.
18:47
Speaker 6: The probable cause affidavit shows Anderson sent Facebook messages claiming
18:52
Speaker 6: her son was a demon who tried to harm her.
18:54
Speaker 6: She wrote to an Indiana pastor saying she believed he
18:57
Speaker 6: was actually one hundred years old and she used blood
19:01
Speaker 6: for some kind of exorcism. In reality, he was a
19:04
Speaker 6: defenseless five year old boy.
19:06
Speaker 1: Do I have to say the words? Lauri Valo called
19:10
Speaker 1: mom Laurie Valo and her what was he? Jackie? Her
19:15
Speaker 1: fourth or fifth husband, Chad Jabel, His wife mysteriously died
19:21
Speaker 1: in her sleep. She was as healthy as a horse,
19:24
Speaker 1: and she just ran a marathon and then she dies
19:27
Speaker 1: in her sleep. Uh Uh, they killed her. It's a crutch,
19:32
Speaker 1: using some completely opposite religion of what Christ intended. That
19:42
Speaker 1: I'm an expert, but I'm pretty sure this is not
19:46
Speaker 1: what he had in mind, calling your five year old
19:50
Speaker 1: child the devil and demanding an exorcism. Both mommy Desjohn
19:56
Speaker 1: Anderson and her friend Don Lane Coleman's fingerprints found on
20:02
Speaker 1: the trash bag that in case baby Jordan's body. No
20:09
Speaker 1: one is happy that a year after the fact, law
20:14
Speaker 1: enforcement still actively seeking them other. But it just doesn't
20:18
Speaker 1: make sense to me calling your five year old child
20:22
Speaker 1: the devil and demanding an exorcism with us. Doctor Thomas Plant,
20:28
Speaker 1: you heard him earlier, professor's Psychology and Religious Studies, Clinical
20:32
Speaker 1: Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford and the
20:37
Speaker 1: editor of Spirituality and Clinical Practice, author of Human Interaction
20:41
Speaker 1: with the Divine, the Sacred, and the Deceased. Psychological Scientific
20:47
Speaker 1: and Theological Perspectives, Doctor Plant, what do you make of this?
20:53
Speaker 9: Well, you know, I think the bottom line is, you know,
20:56
Speaker 9: psychopathology can be a really terrible and brutal thing, and
21:01
Speaker 9: you can't diagnose someone from afar. But what it sounds
21:05
Speaker 9: like is that this as what given the data that's
21:09
Speaker 9: been presented, is that it sounds like this person has
21:12
Speaker 9: a psychotic disorder. Perhaps it's schizophrenia, could be bipolar, could
21:17
Speaker 9: be since she has another person involved with this. According
21:22
Speaker 9: to the report, you would wonder about what's called a
21:25
Speaker 9: shared delusional disorder or a felia do, where two people
21:30
Speaker 9: share the same delusion.
21:32
Speaker 1: Right, are you speaking French or Latin? Flee I do?
21:35
Speaker 9: That's two le I do is French. It means a
21:38
Speaker 9: folly of two, and that's a diagnosis, also called shared
21:43
Speaker 9: delusional disorder.
21:45
Speaker 1: Doctor Plant, I am just a JD. You are the
21:50
Speaker 1: professor of psychology and religious studies. Hold on, it's so
21:54
Speaker 1: much at once. Folly of two felei I do? And
21:58
Speaker 1: you're because I can except that one person could be
22:01
Speaker 1: schizophrenic or have some type of psychotic disorder, but two
22:05
Speaker 1: of them together in the same room and they agree
22:09
Speaker 1: to kill a baby and fold them up like a
22:12
Speaker 1: blanket and put them in a suitcase. That to me
22:17
Speaker 1: is unreasonable that there would be two people equally psychotic,
22:22
Speaker 1: which leads me with one answer. They're murderers, they knew
22:27
Speaker 1: what they were doing. They're hiding behind some crazy religious
22:30
Speaker 1: belief and they're mean as hell.
22:32
Speaker 9: Well, as I mentioned, you can't diagnose from afar. But
22:35
Speaker 9: according to the American Psychiatric Association. There are a legitimate
22:42
Speaker 9: diagnosis called FELIADU or now it's called shared delusional disorder,
22:46
Speaker 9: and you do see it, and I've seen some of
22:47
Speaker 9: those cases a lot.
22:49
Speaker 1: Have you seen a lot of them?
22:50
Speaker 9: No, No, it's pretty unusual, but it's there, just like
22:53
Speaker 9: for example, schizophrenia affects maybe about one out of one
22:57
Speaker 9: hundred people, which is a U, and felia DO or
23:01
Speaker 9: she had delusional disorder would probably be about one out
23:04
Speaker 9: of a thousand people or so. That may or may
23:07
Speaker 9: not be the diagnosis. But I think the bottom line
23:10
Speaker 9: is you've got major psychopathology here, and I think that's
23:13
Speaker 9: probably pretty clear. And the question is, you know, what
23:19
Speaker 9: do you do when you have a situation where people
23:22
Speaker 9: have such severe disorders and they have children in their
23:28
Speaker 9: possession or in their custody. That brings into issues of
23:33
Speaker 9: you know, child protection and so forth, which are often
23:37
Speaker 9: challenging to deal with. There was probably early signs. This
23:43
Speaker 9: probably wasn't the first sign that this child was in trouble.
23:46
Speaker 1: To State Chrimer, former FBI attorney, federal prosecutor, President, I
23:51
Speaker 1: mean dogo solutions. You know what, I am a Christian,
23:57
Speaker 1: I'm seeking the truth every day, try to live it.
24:01
Speaker 1: But this theory of hiding behind your religion in order
24:08
Speaker 1: to do horrible things, I'm not quite sure how to
24:11
Speaker 1: call that out. And we see it all the time. Well,
24:15
Speaker 1: I mentioned called mom Laurie Valo using her apocalyptic religious
24:20
Speaker 1: beliefs and she gets slung up with Chad Dabel the prophet.
24:25
Speaker 1: And for those of you that can't see me, I
24:27
Speaker 1: absolutely used air quotes on that. And I've seen over
24:31
Speaker 1: and over and over Steve Kramer, parents had some religious
24:36
Speaker 1: belief and they ended up starving their children or beating
24:43
Speaker 1: them all in the name of Dare I say it God?
24:48
Speaker 1: And frankly, I mean I hear doctor Plant. I know
24:51
Speaker 1: he's a lot smarter than me, for sure, but it
24:56
Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense to me that a mother who
25:01
Speaker 1: could drive hide her baby still on the land. By
25:05
Speaker 1: the way, she's crazy, but she can elude police and
25:10
Speaker 1: plan her next spot. She's still not caught. She's got
25:15
Speaker 1: Indiana State troopers standing on their ears trying to find her.
25:19
Speaker 1: There's a nationwide alert for her. So how crazy is she?
25:23
Speaker 1: She crazy like a fox? Steve Kramer? Does she have
25:27
Speaker 1: some psychosis? And if so, do you really believe both
25:33
Speaker 1: of them are delusional. I heard what doctor Plant said
25:37
Speaker 1: about Phillya. I do folly of two share delusional disorder,
25:43
Speaker 1: not byen. I'd convict both of these women. Literally, their
25:48
Speaker 1: fingerprints are all over the garbage bag. They stuff this
25:52
Speaker 1: child into your turn, Cramer.
25:55
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean to call this a religion. Come on,
25:58
Speaker 11: that's nonsense. I mean, this is you know.
26:00
Speaker 1: Babbling, not you, doctor Plant, not you, No, no, no,
26:04
Speaker 1: of course, know that the last thing I want to
26:07
Speaker 1: do is get a preacher.
26:08
Speaker 14: Matt.
26:08
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't even need that in my life. Go ahead,
26:12
Speaker 1: and Kramer, just let's make sure a doctor Plant knows
26:15
Speaker 1: it's not about him. But what do you say exactly
26:18
Speaker 1: what they're going to claim with trial if they're ever
26:20
Speaker 1: both caught.
26:20
Speaker 11: Go ahead exactly. I mean putting the stuff out on
26:24
Speaker 11: Facebook and Twitter about you know, their child is you know,
26:28
Speaker 11: an avatar and my child somehow possessed or I had
26:32
Speaker 11: to do some healing and I had to do some killing.
26:36
Speaker 11: I mean, the stuff they're saying, I mean, this is
26:38
Speaker 11: actually unfortunately not that uncommon. You know, we see cases
26:42
Speaker 11: like you mentioned the Lori Vallo Chad Dave Bell case
26:46
Speaker 11: where she killed her own children. We see other cases
26:49
Speaker 11: a lot of times when we find children, young children
26:53
Speaker 11: like this, that are incapable of taking care of themselves,
26:57
Speaker 11: that are abandoned someplace dead, the bodies. When we eventually
27:01
Speaker 11: identify the parents, they are off with having some affair,
27:05
Speaker 11: the child was an inconvenience, or they're on some drug
27:08
Speaker 11: high again, the child's an inconvenience, So that aspect is
27:11
Speaker 11: not really uncommon. And I think in this particular case,
27:16
Speaker 11: I mean, you look at it. I mean she said
27:18
Speaker 11: I had to do some healing and killing, and that
27:20
Speaker 11: was around April twelfth, and the body was found two
27:24
Speaker 11: days later, April fourteenth. And I was point out one
27:27
Speaker 11: key thing with this, and you mentioned it earlier too, Nancy,
27:32
Speaker 11: is they didn't think they were doing anything wrong. Then
27:36
Speaker 11: why did to hide the baby or the five year
27:38
Speaker 11: old in a suitcase and put it out in the field.
27:40
Speaker 11: And why are they on the land now? What are
27:42
Speaker 11: they running from? That they haven't done anything wrong. So
27:45
Speaker 11: clearly she knows that she's done something wrong. But what
27:47
Speaker 11: I find most interesting is her accomplice, John Coleman. They
27:52
Speaker 11: were both wanted on warrants of neglect of a dependent
27:56
Speaker 11: and obstruction of Justice, and woman was arrested on the
28:01
Speaker 11: nineteenth of October. Less than a week later, those charges
28:05
Speaker 11: were upgraded to murder against miss Anderson. So obviously she
28:11
Speaker 11: probably said something to the police exactly what happened with
28:14
Speaker 11: this child that allowed the police and the prosecutors to
28:17
Speaker 11: upgrade the charges from neglect to murder.
28:19
Speaker 1: And I mean, there's such a history Steve hiding behind
28:24
Speaker 1: some kind of religion. Why your child dies. Thet's say,
28:27
Speaker 1: there's two year old I'm going to listen last night,
28:29
Speaker 1: Ella Grace. Her parents, Jonathan and Grace Ford, thought it
28:34
Speaker 1: was God's will their little two year old die. Then
28:37
Speaker 1: there's nine year old Jason Lockhart out of Oklahoma, much
28:41
Speaker 1: the same, sixteen year old Neil Bigley, much the same,
28:46
Speaker 1: And they hide behind religion while their child dies. That's
28:52
Speaker 1: what I'm seeing. I mean, Max Lewis fifty nine joining us.
28:56
Speaker 1: So I'm Indianapolis. What's the reaction to Mommy climbing her
29:00
Speaker 1: child was possessed?
29:02
Speaker 10: Well, you know, it's I am sort of speechless myself,
29:07
Speaker 10: and I think that's the way everybody else was. You know,
29:10
Speaker 10: she had tried to reach out to this priest in
29:14
Speaker 10: southeastern Indiana who was a well known performer of exorcists,
29:17
Speaker 10: Vatican trained exorcist, and wasn't able to get a hold
29:23
Speaker 10: of him. And so that claim, I think, or that
29:26
Speaker 10: sort of claim from her and the Facebook post that
29:28
Speaker 10: you were mentioning, I think was really shocking to everybody.
29:32
Speaker 10: I do want to make a point about something that
29:34
Speaker 10: doctor Plant said. He said that this child was likely
29:38
Speaker 10: in danger before, or there were likely signs before. Well
29:41
Speaker 10: there was. She was actually these two women, mom and
29:45
Speaker 10: don Coleman actually got into a car chase, court records
29:49
Speaker 10: showdown in South Carolina. They were running from the police,
29:52
Speaker 10: going over ninety miles an hour on the interstate, and
29:56
Speaker 10: the kid and the little boy, Kirote was in the
29:58
Speaker 10: car with them. That doesn't, you know, spell danger? I
30:03
Speaker 10: don't know what does, so you know, clearly I think
30:06
Speaker 10: what doctor Plant said is correct. This boy was in
30:09
Speaker 10: danger before, had been in danger, and unfortunately the peers
30:14
Speaker 10: of right steps weren't taken and he ended up in
30:16
Speaker 10: this suitcase dead.
30:18
Speaker 1: Why wasn't the baby taken away then, Max Lewis, I mean,
30:22
Speaker 1: his siblings have been taken away, why not him?
30:25
Speaker 10: I don't know, you know, it's really a mystery and
30:28
Speaker 10: something that probably authorities in South Carolina maybe need to
30:32
Speaker 10: answer for because when this car chase in ended, you know,
30:36
Speaker 10: Anderson was the one driving, the mom was the one driving,
30:40
Speaker 10: and then Don Coleman was in the passenger seat. The
30:42
Speaker 10: baby was in the backseat when this police chase ended
30:45
Speaker 10: because they ran out of gas. They basically just dropped
30:48
Speaker 10: Don Coleman and the child off at a motel and
30:51
Speaker 10: took the mom to jail, and so she was the
30:56
Speaker 10: child was given right back to them.
30:58
Speaker 1: Wow, sounds like day fat supporting Family Children's Services on
31:02
Speaker 1: and again. Now we have another dad child Seemingly nobody
31:09
Speaker 1: but me cares because it keeps happening every day. Children
31:13
Speaker 1: in horrible, dangerous situations are left there because Child Protector
31:18
Speaker 1: Services does nothing. Now, speaking of exorcism, take a listener,
31:22
Speaker 1: friends at Fox fifty nine, Yeah for David.
31:25
Speaker 15: In the case details a series of strange social media
31:28
Speaker 15: posts police se Kyrol's mother sent about demons, exorcism, and
31:32
Speaker 15: dark magic in the days before he was found. On
31:34
Speaker 15: April twelfth, Anderson reached out to an Indianapolis priest, Father
31:38
Speaker 15: Vincent Lampert, from the Archdiocese of Indianapolis, on Twitter. Father
31:42
Speaker 15: Lampert is one of dozens of priests who are exorcists
31:45
Speaker 15: in the US. As you may know, and exorcist is
31:47
Speaker 15: someone trained to cast out demons. Father Lampert told us
31:50
Speaker 15: it's rare that a child dealing with quote demonic possession.
31:55
Speaker 16: There's no such thing as an emergency exorcism. It really
31:58
Speaker 16: begins with the person having a psychiatric evaluation by a
32:02
Speaker 16: qualified psychologists or psychiatrists, and then having a medical examination
32:07
Speaker 16: by their family doctor.
32:09
Speaker 15: Father Lampard says when someone contacts him, he encourages them
32:12
Speaker 15: to talk to their pastor and their family doctor.
32:28
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace more heartbreaking evidence revealed on
32:34
Speaker 1: social Mommy Anderson talks online about needing a quote exorcism
32:41
Speaker 1: on her son to remove his demonic force. She even
32:46
Speaker 1: made a post about telling her story in a book
32:49
Speaker 1: or podcast about living with a quote demonic child. Doctor plant,
32:54
Speaker 1: what exactly is an exorcism?
32:57
Speaker 9: An exorcist is trained to perform a ritual. As you know,
33:03
Speaker 9: the Catholic Church has lots of rituals, and this is
33:07
Speaker 9: one a ritual that of training so that they it's
33:13
Speaker 9: they're trained through the Vatican and so forth. The Vatican
33:16
Speaker 9: approved and exorcists like this gentleman you just mentioned, and
33:24
Speaker 9: including the excescists that I've worked with, we'll say that
33:26
Speaker 9: ninety nine point nine percent of the time of cases
33:30
Speaker 9: are major psychopathology and what's necessary is a psychiatric evaluation
33:36
Speaker 9: or medical evaluation and so forth, and their troubles are
33:39
Speaker 9: really in that arena. And I think that's that's true
33:45
Speaker 9: when it comes to religion, sadly and tragically, some people
33:50
Speaker 9: use religion for great harm and some people use religion
33:54
Speaker 9: for great good. And I think that it's sort of
33:57
Speaker 9: like a car. You know, a car can be a
33:59
Speaker 9: great it gets you where you want to go, but
34:02
Speaker 9: a car in the hands of a drunk driver is
34:04
Speaker 9: a terrible weapon. The same is true with religion. In
34:07
Speaker 9: this case, as you said, this woman may have been
34:11
Speaker 9: using those imagery and things like that to justify her behavior,
34:17
Speaker 9: which is horrific. But you know, sadly, that is a
34:22
Speaker 9: common phenomenon across the world, and it always has been,
34:26
Speaker 9: where people project their troubles and whatnot onto kind of
34:31
Speaker 9: religion and then justify their actions in that way.
34:35
Speaker 1: What you said is entirely true, doctor Plant. Just Gott Morgan,
34:41
Speaker 1: I know forensics, I know crime, and that's what I'm
34:45
Speaker 1: going to fall back home when I don't understand the rest.
34:48
Speaker 1: I want you, specifically to take a listen to Courtney
34:51
Speaker 1: Spinelli Fox fifty nine.
34:53
Speaker 17: A child who for months was only known as the
34:56
Speaker 17: boy found in a suitcase in rural Indiana.
34:58
Speaker 1: Now has a name. Year old's Kiro Jordan Is Sue
35:03
Speaker 1: hasn't really second had Cairo's.
35:04
Speaker 17: Paternal grandparents and great uncles say they only learned he
35:07
Speaker 17: died one day ago.
35:09
Speaker 1: I would have wanted to know what kind of person
35:12
Speaker 1: he would have come to be.
35:14
Speaker 17: Things like whether he would have grown up to play
35:16
Speaker 17: football like his dad did when he was younger. Authorities
35:19
Speaker 17: are still trying to find Cairo's mother, Dejon Anderson, now
35:23
Speaker 17: charged in his murder.
35:24
Speaker 1: All she had to do with you know, let us
35:27
Speaker 1: know and uh what he usually talking? How many children?
35:31
Speaker 1: Jo Scott Morgan death investigator, have you been at the
35:36
Speaker 1: murder scene, the homicide scene, the death scene, the autopsy
35:41
Speaker 1: where mommy or daddy is a killer. But the rest
35:46
Speaker 1: of the family did nothing. They knew there was a problem.
35:50
Speaker 1: How could this family not know mommy was arrested for
35:53
Speaker 1: aselony in South Carolina and got the childback and.
35:56
Speaker 8: That that's counting on the fact that the individual had
36:00
Speaker 8: contact with their family. But lots of times you'll have
36:02
Speaker 8: these individuals that will know, I mean, they will know
36:07
Speaker 8: that what's going on within that household is wrong, and
36:11
Speaker 8: nobody interdicts it because nobody wants to get crossways with
36:15
Speaker 8: the family members. Nobody wants to create a problem with
36:17
Speaker 8: the family members and all for what. Now, in this
36:21
Speaker 8: particular case, you've got this baby who was abandoned like garbage.
36:25
Speaker 8: Let's just face it. That's the way he was treated
36:28
Speaker 8: out in the middle of the woods. And you can't
36:31
Speaker 8: tell me there weren't red flags leading up to this.
36:34
Speaker 8: I've seen this over and over and over again.
36:36
Speaker 1: Answer, we know that the mother moved around a lot.
36:40
Speaker 1: I want you to listen, Ja, I can't want to
36:42
Speaker 1: cut forward to our cut number thirty eight, Fox fifty nine. Listen.
36:46
Speaker 17: In a series of posts, Anderson indicated she believed Cairo
36:50
Speaker 17: was possessed family wishes. Anyone seeing these posts would have
36:53
Speaker 17: reached out to offer help save Cairo.
36:58
Speaker 5: That could have saved his mom, could have brought him
37:01
Speaker 5: beck to Georgia, who could have helped him out.
37:02
Speaker 8: Whatever we're to need.
37:03
Speaker 17: As they worked to grasp what happened to Cairo. They're
37:06
Speaker 17: grateful for the strangers who never stopped fighting for justice.
37:10
Speaker 2: We definitely want to thank the people in Indiana who
37:13
Speaker 2: did give him a proper burial. That was so nice
37:19
Speaker 2: of them.
37:19
Speaker 1: This shows what kind of what humanity really is. Hard
37:23
Speaker 1: to believe that, with all of the available tools at
37:26
Speaker 1: our fingertips, Mommy Jean Anderson still on the run running
37:32
Speaker 1: from Lady Justice after her child found stuffed in a
37:36
Speaker 1: Vegas suitcase in the middle of the woods dead. Disturbingly,
37:42
Speaker 1: we learn Mommy Anderson arrested in South Carolina for child endangerment,
37:48
Speaker 1: speeding in failure to stop for officers. Anderson only stopped
37:52
Speaker 1: when she ran out of gas just before Tiny Kyrie's
37:55
Speaker 1: body was found. Mommy Anderson arrested in Louisville for shot
37:59
Speaker 1: with an assault. We learned that Mommy's friend Coleman, claims
38:04
Speaker 1: to have been babysitting Cairo after Anderson was arrested. After
38:08
Speaker 1: picking up Anderson, they went to stay at a cousin's
38:11
Speaker 1: home in Louisville. According to a witness, the witness comes
38:15
Speaker 1: into a bedroom to find Anderson on top of the
38:17
Speaker 1: baby boy. The boy facing down on a Mattress. Court
38:22
Speaker 1: documents only recently released, claimed the witness told investigators quote
38:27
Speaker 1: it was already done when the witness came in the
38:31
Speaker 1: bedroom to find the little boy dead. Dejohn Anderson aka
38:38
Speaker 1: Mommy had already gathered trash bags in the bedroom used
38:43
Speaker 1: to stuff the tots body in a suitcase to somehow
38:49
Speaker 1: rationalize the murder. Mommy claimed her son was quote possessed
38:54
Speaker 1: as she drove to Indiana to dump the suitcase. Mommy's
39:00
Speaker 1: own ping to peak in Indiana, not far from where
39:02
Speaker 1: Cairo's body found. Additionally, we learned surveilla's video from a
39:06
Speaker 1: property owner show's Mommy's car stop on the road where
39:11
Speaker 1: the suitcase was discovered. After coming social media, we learned
39:16
Speaker 1: that Mommy's friend had the very same suitcase in which
39:21
Speaker 1: the boy's body was found on the very same day
39:24
Speaker 1: the Vegas suitcase was discovered. Video allegedly shows Mommy's car
39:29
Speaker 1: driving across a bridge from Indiana to Louisville. A felony
39:34
Speaker 1: murder arrest warrant has been issued for Anderson, but she's
39:38
Speaker 1: currently on the run, last believed to be in the
39:41
Speaker 1: LA area. Cops say they've searched for her in the
39:46
Speaker 1: Metro La area, but came up empty handed. Last known
39:51
Speaker 1: location Echo Park, LA. But she's known to travel far
39:56
Speaker 1: and wide, recently having been in San Francisco, San Diego,
40:01
Speaker 1: Las Vegas, and Houston. Her contacts reached all the way
40:05
Speaker 1: back to Georgia, where Little Cairo was born. Anderson five five,
40:12
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty five pounds, short, dark brown hair
40:15
Speaker 1: and last known photo. Often prone to wear wigs or
40:20
Speaker 1: hair extensions. I don't care how many extensions she wears.
40:24
Speaker 1: Nothing is going to change those fingerprints. According to recently
40:28
Speaker 1: released court documents, we learned police use technology to pull
40:31
Speaker 1: fingerprints from trash bags that encased the tiny boy's body
40:38
Speaker 1: stuffed in a suitcase. Those prints a one hundred percent
40:43
Speaker 1: match to mommy, de Jan Anderson. I want justice. I
40:50
Speaker 1: want Little Cairo's mother. Dejean Anderson brought back to court
40:56
Speaker 1: to face a jury and a true rate. We wait
41:02
Speaker 1: as justice unfold. Goodbye, friend,