Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Jay Seegert: Creation In Six Days... Really? (Part 2)

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Jay Seegert: Creation In Six Days... Really? (Part 2) · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
• 0:13
  No topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Fiorazo.
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  Hey friends, thank you so much for tuning in to World View Matters.
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  God bless you and thank you for sharing the podcast.
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  And we also thank you for your donations, of course.
• 0:29
  But we are taking this time to do another show on the creation in six days with Jay Seeger.
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  This is part two.
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  If you missed part one, we'll do a very brief review in a minute.
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  But the website is thesestartingpointproject.com.
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  You can get Jay's podcast, the new podcast starting point, and also his book.
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  You can find it on his website creation to Christ, very important book to check out as
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  well.
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  Right back into this, now we've already started hammering this out creation in six days.
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  And then we kind of go really, and we did get into the age of the earth and we're talking
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  about these issues.
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  But one thing, well, before we do that, before we continue, could you, for those that are
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  just tuning in, it didn't catch the first episode, perhaps, just give us a few bullet points
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  on what we already discussed and we'll move on.
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  We talked about how tough of an issue this is for most people to wrap their heads around.
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  I fully expect people to think that I'm crazy for believing in six literal days because
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  of their background and their education.
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  I get that.
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  And we did look at scripture that this is ultimately about the authority scripture.
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  Do we really, really, really trust what it says or do we think we know better and then
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  we'll reinterpret it to fit with what we think we know.
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  We got into the actual Hebrew of what does it actually say?
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  And we saw multiple lines of evidence showing that the day is defined there is a regular
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  solar day.
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  It's really nothing else.
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  There's a very strong case from the Bible.
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  These are regular days, whether or not people can wrap their heads around that.
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  That's another issue, but there's a lot of evidence for that, biblically, and we'll
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  get into the science today.
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  Great.
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  And we're talking about, of course, the book of Genesis, particularly as Ken Ham would
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  say over and over and over, Genesis 1 to 11, Genesis 1 to 11, I love answers in Genesis.
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  But you said what matters in this whole controversy?
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  In the age of the earth, necessarily, but something else.
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  Well, what would that be?
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  Yeah.
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  This comes as a surprise.
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  I tell people, I don't care how old the earth is.
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  I said, I have a pretty strong opinion that it's relatively young, but I don't care
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  about a number.
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  It's not about the age of the earth.
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  It's about something else.
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  It's about death.
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  And people are like, well, what are you talking about?
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  Here's what I'm talking about.
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  You have to answer this question.
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  How and why did death come about?
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  There's death all around us.
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  So how did it get here and when did it get here?
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  What caused it to get here?
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  Every Christian needs to answer that.
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  And what you believe about the age of the earth will largely dry what you believe about
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  how death got here in a nutshell.
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  This is what it is.
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  Picture the geologic column, picture grand canyon, picture all the layers in the earth.
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  Everyone's familiar with that.
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  That's a fact.
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  Those layers are literally filled with billions and billions of fossils.
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  Nobody argues that either.
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  We also know that fossils are dead things.
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  We call it the fossil record.
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  Nobody argues that.
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  So these layers in the earth, the fossil record, the geologic column represents many, many,
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  you supposedly millions of years of death disease, pain and suffering.
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  Again, no one argues that the fossil record represents death disease, pain and suffering.
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  So how did it get here?
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  If you as a Christian believe, well, you know, God used a big bang.
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  He's been proven in earth as old.
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  It doesn't really matter.
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  And that was just God's process.
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  That means you had hundreds of millions of years of death, disease, pain and suffering
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  going on.
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  As the layers are being built up, we even have evidence of cancer and dinosaur bones.
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  So if I believe God used this natural process over hundreds of millions in a few billion years,
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  then all that was going on before the Garden of Eden is even here before Adam and Eve
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  are even created.
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  So when God then ends up creating Adam and even putting them in that Garden, they are living
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  on top of a graveyard of billions of dead things and death disease, pain and suffering
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  cancer.
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  So when Adam then sins, that does not bring death disease, pain and suffering into God's
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  perfect creation.
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  It was already there.
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  It's not Adam's fault, which then makes you wonder, why did Jesus die on a cross?
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  The whole idea was because of death disease, pain and suffering and sin being in the world.
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  But if it's not Adam's fault, it seems like Christ wasted his time.
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  On the other hand, if you believe that Adam and Eve were created perfect and that original
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  creation, like God says, it was very good.
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  It was perfect.
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  Then they sinned and that brought death disease, pain and suffering into God's creation.
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  And it got so bad that almost 1700 years later, God says, that's it.
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  Times up.
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  I'm judging mankind.
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  He sends a global flood.
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  That lays all those layers down catastrophically, bearing all those creatures.
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  That makes mankind responsible.
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  Romans 512 says it was my Adam sin that brought death into the world.
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  That makes sense.
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  And Jesus Christ would come and then die for our sins.
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  So what you believe about the age of the earth will drive what you believe about how death
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  got here.
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  And if you don't think death is Adam's fault, then you lose a foundation for the gospel
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  message.
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  Excellent point about death, whether what did it happen before Adam?
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  You know, that's very, very important.
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  Thank you.
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  I'm going back to what we said in part one or what we both talked about.
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  How there was some confusion in the church and maybe a majority would not believe in
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  taking the literal view of Genesis and the 24 hour days.
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  You say the solar day.
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  Well, where do they get this idea?
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  You mentioned one secular influences, programs, documentaries, scientists, whatever.
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  But what about our leaders?
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  What about pastors?
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  What about the shepherds of the church?
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  What about the teachers of believers in every congregation?
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  What do they believe, generally?
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  What have you found?
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  Sure.
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  Again, I'm just sure my personal experience is 39 years of dealing with pastors.
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  So what I'm going to say doesn't apply to every pastor.
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  I'm not saying that at all.
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  But right.
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  Quite a few of them, typically what can happen is they go off to seminary.
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  They're taught in seminary.
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  There are different views on Genesis, meaning, you know, literal solar day or figurative,
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  gap theory, day age theory, framework hypothesis, all these different ways of looking at Genesis
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  in which you can have millions and billions of years.
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  So they're told there are different views.
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  There are really smart people on all different sides.
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  And it's kind of controversial and can be divisive and ultimately doesn't matter.
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  So the pastors can come out of seminary thinking we don't really know and it can be really
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  divisive and since it doesn't matter, they'll just avoid it.
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  And now they themselves don't need to even study it further because they've been told
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  other people have studied this and they can't agree.
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  So maybe don't waste your time.
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  So now they take on a church and they typically will do a great job.
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  God has gifted them greatly in many different areas.
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  But when it comes to Genesis, they just say, well, God's the Creator and they quickly
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  move on because they can't address going through the actual text there, then they're safe
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  that way because then they can just accept anything from the secular society, big bang,
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  some of them even evolution and all that.
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  It's been proven by science and God's all powerful.
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  He can do whatever he wants.
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  It doesn't matter.
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  We're just here to worship Jesus.
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  One of the tensions that can happen is an individual pastor might be convicted like,
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  you know what?
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  I'm a pastor.
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  I'm teaching people God's word.
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  Why am I skipping Genesis, which is foundational to every major doctrine we believe?
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  So if he's thinking, I should probably study this to have more of an opinion at that point.
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  He hasn't started studying yet much, but he's going to, he wants to, he feels led to.
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  He knows one of two things can happen.
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  He could go down a path where it turns out like, you know what, the big bang is fine.
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  If it's in the scripture, someone had to start the big bang.
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  The days of Genesis, they don't have to be regular days.
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  It's in very comfortable.
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  If that were to happen, now he has instant acceptance of the academic community and the community
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  at large.
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  And even many, if not most people within his church, he's very safe.
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  There might be a small group that believe in six day creation that push back on them,
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  but they might be labeled as strange people and you don't really care about their opinion.
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  So if you went that route, you'd probably be okay, but if you study and you, you went
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  down a different path where like, wow, the text seems to say six solar days.
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  And I've read about scientific problems with the big bang and it doesn't fit in with
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  scripture.
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  If you would end up with that conclusion, now you're in trouble because you have lost
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  the acceptance of the academic community, the community at large.
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  Most people within your church, the small group will say, yay pastor, but maybe you don't
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  want to be associated with them.
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  And so you're in that point where you haven't started studying yet, it's too dangerous
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  to start.
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  So you just stay where you are.
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  There are different views.
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  It doesn't matter.
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  It's too divisive.
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  We're just here to focus on Jesus.
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  And you can play both sides of the fence because you haven't told anyone what you believe.
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  Well, I think that's a weak point for a pastor to come from saying, hey, I'm not going
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  to tell you what I believe.
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  You know, wait a minute.
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  This is foundational to scripture and you're going to say you don't have an opinion.
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  And even if it did, you wouldn't tell us.
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  That's not leadership.
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  Exactly.
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  Thank you.
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  So a lot of pastors believe this because some seminaries, by the way, there are some
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  seminaries that don't even adhere to the inerrancy of scripture anymore.
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  So as we said, authority is such a big deal.
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  So Jay, we need to be looking as believers of the Bible being our authority.
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  So not, not over to science, but doesn't science confirm scripture on these issues and especially
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  this one that we're talking about creation in six days.
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  I believe it does 100% of the time.
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  No, well, differentiate.
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  There's a massive difference between science and scientists opinions science.
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  She doesn't say anything ever.
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  It's just a body of research and all that bunch of facts sitting there.
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  They have to be interpreted.
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  And depending upon how you interpret it, you're going to come up with different conclusions.
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  And many scientists, most scientists are not coming in at a standpoint of God exists.
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  And the Bible is the authority and God's authoritative word.
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  That's not their starting point.
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  That's not their foundation.
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  So they're going to look out all these facts and these bodies within science.
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  They're going to come up with vastly different conclusions than others might and their conclusions
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  very often go against what scripture teaches.
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  But is God's word our authority or the fallible opinions of men and women who don't necessarily
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  even believe in God and those who vaguely believe in them, don't respect him and don't
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  really take his word seriously.
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  And think of it this way, for most of history, we didn't have science.
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  They've vast majority of history.
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  We did not have science.
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  So do we really think that God inspired Moses to write all this knowing that people would
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  actually believe what was written in God cringes and they can really didn't mean any
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  of that.
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  And no, people are going to believe it for most of history.
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  But eventually you guys will have modern scientists and you'll figure out, I didn't mean any
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  of that.
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  But something very, very, very different.
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  And also means when you send out a missionary, don't just send out the missionary, send
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  along with them an astrophysicist and a geologist.
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  So when the missionary gets done, the scientists can say, okay, I know what you're thinking.
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  Well, it's true.
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  But we're here to tell you what it actually means, what he said, you know, that doesn't
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  make any sense.
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  We talked about several things there, meaning some people seek the approval of man rather
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  than God's approval.
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  And I love the basic point.
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  Science doesn't speak.
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  Scientists do.
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  And so it's some scientists, some fallible man's interpretation.
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  So Jay, there's some of the questions we have.
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  In fact, I think we should probably take a brief pause now before I dive into a couple
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  of years.
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  These are the topics such as doesn't carbon 14 dating seem to prove the earth is billions
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  of years old.
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  A lot of people believe that.
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  And what other evidence can we find that the earth is only thousands of years old, more
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  coming up with Jay Seigert in just a minute?
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• 13:02
  Jay Seigert is with us, the starting point project.com.
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  So Jay, one common thing that we hear a lot is about this carbon 14 dating.
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  A lot of us don't even know what that is or don't know how they do it, let alone prove
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  anything.
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  We play out the best you can in the short time we have and saying the opposite of people
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  say it's proving that the earth is billions of years old, but does it prove that and what
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  do they mean by that?
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  Sure, I'll be really brief.
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  Obviously we can go hours and hours of technical lectures, we won't be going that
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  real.
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  So typically a skeptic may say or a Christian may say, well, you can't take the days as
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  literal days because in carbon 14 dating proves you're at this billions of years old when
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  someone makes a statement similar to that, it proves one thing.
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  That person doesn't know anything about carbon 14 dating.
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  Typically they are repeating something they've heard from someone else.
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  Very likely the other person who said it doesn't know anything, they are repeating something
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  they've heard.
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  It goes on down the line where no one really knows what they're talking about.
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  They just say that and it stops maybe the Christian in their track from responding because
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  today, carbon 14 dating, I'll make two very simple points about carbon 14 dating.
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  Number one, you don't use it to date rocks.
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  You can use it to date things that were once living, you know, bones and flesh, but not
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  rocks.
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  So you're not giving the age of the earth, you know, the rocks from carbon 14 and number
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  two, it can only give you tens of thousands of years as a result, not hundreds of thousands,
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  not millions or billions because carbon 14 decays away too quickly.
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  There won't be any left after let's say 80, 90,000 years, it would be just completely gone.
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  So if you say something as 100 million years old or a billion years old, there wouldn't
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  be any carbon 14 and scientists don't try to use carbon 14 to date something that they
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  expect is supposed to in their mind to be really, really old.
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  So someone is saying that they're just repeating it, they don't know.
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  It doesn't prove an Asian fact when you know all the details of carbon 14 dating, the
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  dates actually line up with a biblical narrative of a recent creation and a worldwide flood,
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  you know, maybe four thousand, four hundred years ago.
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  There are other methods that you can use to date rocks, other radiometric methods, you
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  know, radium lead potassium, argon, ribidium, strontium and such.
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  We won't have time to go through all those details, but those are based on three major
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  assumptions.
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  And if your assumptions are wrong that you're using, your results are going to be way
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  off.
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  And if we had time to get into that, I'd walk you through that.
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  There are issues with radiometric dating as well.
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  So one thing we said, I think you said it in the first episode that it's not what God
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  could have done.
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  It's what he said he did.
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  And of course, he's and God said and then he created.
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  So we need to get back to the authority, the word of God and what he said.
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  Not could he have done, could he have done it a lot of different ways, sure.
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  But he didn't, he only did it the way he said, Jay, I know we're running out of time.
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  What about dinosaur bones?
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  There's a lot of confusion and controversy about the bones themselves and how old they
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  are.
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  Can you share with us a little bit about that?
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  Sure.
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  I'll also be very brief here.
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  Sometimes it's hard because I'd love to share more, but with the time that we have dinosaur
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  bones is one of those things like carbon-14 dating while the earth has to be old.
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  I mean, come on, dinosaur bones and there are many Christian leaders who have referenced
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  dinosaur bones as evidence against six literal days.
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  Okay, very quickly, when they find a dinosaur bone and dinosaurs did exist so much evidence,
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  I did my own excavation.
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  So when they find a dinosaur bone, they will bring it into a laboratory to get a date on
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  it.
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  When they bring it into the laboratory, a different scientist who specializes in doing
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  the dating, they will always ask, where did you find it?
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  What do they care?
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  Just date the bone.
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  No, they need to know where this bone is found, like where in the geologic column, because
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  each layer was assigned an age before we even invented radiometric dating.
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  So by finding out what layer the bone was found in, the scientist in the laboratory will
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  have a target.
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  They'll have an idea of about how old this thing is supposed to be.
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  So a dinosaur, they died at the end of Cretaceous or whatever, so about 65 million years
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  old.
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  So the scientist in the laboratory tells themselves, we know it's about 65 million years
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  old.
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  We don't know that yet.
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  We're trying to come up with a date, just date the bone, but then say to themselves, because
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  we know it's probably about 65 million years old, it won't have any carbon 14 in it.
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  We can't date the bone.
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  Most dinosaur bones we find are still fresh.
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  So, but they'll set the bone aside.
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  Well, we can't date the bone.
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  There won't be any carbon 14 to date.
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  They don't know that.
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  Why don't you test it?
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  We'll get chance.
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  I'll get into that fact that we do find carbon 14 in them, but they'll set it aside.
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  Okay, they're not dating the bone.
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  Oh, they're dating the layer that they found the bone in.
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  No, those are sedimentary layers, and you can't use a radiometric dating unsedimentary
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  layers.
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  Those are fragments of other rocks.
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  They're not dating the bone.
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  They're not dating the layer it was found in.
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  So they bring in a nearby igneous rock that was by the layer where the bone was found.
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  And you can use radiometric dating on igneous rocks, multiple different methods they can
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  use.
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  One comes up with 1.1 billion.
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  Oh, they know that's too old.
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  That must have gone wrong, tossed that out.
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  Someone says 125,000 years old, way too young, must have been contaminated.
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  Throw that one out.
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  Another one, 25 million years old, too young, doesn't work.
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  Find me potassium margon, 68 million years old.
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  We were right.
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  We were thinking 65 potassium margon proves it was 68 million years old.
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  That gets published.
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  The public is impressed, and you can't argue with that.
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  That's science, and that's how that can work.
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  You really described the biases of men, of scientists.
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  They had biases.
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  They have preconceived ideas and biases and opinions before they even sincerely seek the
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  truth and seek the facts.
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  But let's move on, Jay.
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  You do a lot of Grand Canyon tours.
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  You're very familiar with that area.
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  We're told that the Grand Canyon was carved out by the Colorado River over millions of
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  years of Earth history.
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  I think you disagree with that.
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  Just a little bit.
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  I start with scripture, and there was a worldwide flood, and only a worldwide flood can explain
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  the major geologic formations we see around the Earth, and the Grand Canyon is one of the
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  best spots on the planet, this year, but it's Grand Canyon is 900 cubic miles of sediment
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  gone.
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  It's a ditch and a big ditch in the ground there.
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  If the Colorado River carved that out, it would have been carrying those sediments with
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  it and dumping it off at the end, creating a delta.
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  Can you imagine the massive delta 900 cubic miles of sediment?
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  It's not there.
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  It was not carried out by the Colorado River.
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  It was carved out catastrophically, and then remaining water trickling through the groove
• 19:54
  that was carved.
• 19:55
  The river didn't carve the canyon.
• 19:58
  The canyon created the river in a sense.
• 20:00
  Also, when rivers do carve things, they make more of a v-shape of the Grand Canyon when
• 20:06
  you look at it, vertical walls.
• 20:08
  You only get vertical walls by fast moving water.
• 20:11
  There's so much evidence that this was a worldwide flood, catastrophically carving out
• 20:16
  that canyon.
• 20:18
  They also realize that the layers themselves were laid down quickly.
• 20:21
  Used to say hundreds of millions of years of each layer or whatever, then they realize
• 20:25
  that doesn't work because these layers are filled with fossils.
• 20:27
  The only way you get a fossil is to bury it quickly, so they realize these layers must
• 20:31
  have been laid down catastrophically to create the fossils.
• 20:34
  Now they try to put the time, the millions of years in between the layers, so they say
• 20:38
  one layer was laid down very, very quickly, but then it's sat there exposed for 10 million
• 20:42
  years, like in between a coconut sandstone and a hermitchail.
• 20:46
  One layer lay down and just sat there for 10 million years.
• 20:48
  And then the next layer came down very quickly again.
• 20:50
  Well, if the one layer sat there exposed for 10 million years, you'd see erosion in
• 20:54
  it.
• 20:55
  You'd see soil developing, plants growing, bio-terbation, animals burrowing up and down,
• 21:00
  and then that would get buried.
• 21:02
  But when you look at the scene between layers, it's like a razor edge.
• 21:06
  So they want you to think in that instance, 10 million years went by, but it didn't do
• 21:10
  any erosion on that layer.
• 21:11
  But in just six million years, the whole canyon was carved out in earth history.
• 21:16
  And then further down, there's 160 million years in between layers where you don't see
• 21:20
  it.
• 21:21
  And then at the bottom, 1.1 billion years missing in between layers, but the evidence
• 21:25
  doesn't support that whatsoever.
• 21:27
  Wow.
• 21:28
  And like you said, what did you say you got to do was a geological or hermitical gymnastics?
• 21:35
  What did you say earlier?
• 21:36
  Hermitical gymnastics to get it to a minute in the scripture.
• 21:40
  You fit this in.
• 21:41
  And again, our authority is the word of God, friends, and God said it.
• 21:45
  So that settles it.
• 21:47
  And we just have to ask him, ask the Holy Spirit for discernment and to lead us on these
• 21:51
  things and to speak to our hearts.
• 21:54
  And just to confirm that with other scripture, not what other scientists might say or opine.
• 22:01
  So Jay, what other evidence do we have that the earth is only thousands of years old?
• 22:06
  And we've got about five minutes left.
• 22:08
  Sure.
• 22:09
  You know, scratch the surface.
• 22:10
  Since we talked about dinosaurs, I'll give you four scientific reasons why there's
• 22:14
  no way those bones are millions of years old.
• 22:17
  One I mentioned, most dinosaur bones we discover are still fresh.
• 22:20
  They haven't fossilized yet.
• 22:22
  If they were 65 million years old, they should have completely fossilized by now, but most
• 22:25
  of them are still fresh.
• 22:26
  Number two, we find carbon 14 in dinosaur bones.
• 22:30
  That's an indication of thousands of years.
• 22:31
  Yeah, I believe they were buried about 4,400 years ago in a flood.
• 22:35
  So we still see carbon 14 in them.
• 22:38
  Thirdly, we have soft tissue and red blood cells in dinosaur bones.
• 22:43
  Biological material does not last long.
• 22:45
  It decomposes quickly.
• 22:47
  There's no way those bones can be 65 million years old and still have soft tissue.
• 22:50
  One of my talks, I have a video where they show in the laboratory that material being
• 22:55
  stretched and snapping back, it looks fresh.
• 22:58
  And then fourthly, we actually have DNA fragments in dinosaur bones, DNA is more fragile than
• 23:03
  red blood cells and soft tissue.
• 23:05
  These are all indications.
• 23:06
  These creatures were buried in a flood about 4,500 years ago and that's why we still see
• 23:10
  the materials.
• 23:11
  So that's one light of evidence that blows people away.
• 23:15
  Yeah.
• 23:16
  So many things we can talk about, the Earth's magnetic field.
• 23:19
  If you have a magnet at home, you know, over the years it gets weaker and weaker and weaker.
• 23:23
  Same thing with the Earth.
• 23:24
  It's a magnetic field and it's decreasing, you'll be measuring it for 90 years or more
• 23:31
  and it's decreasing as a half life of 1400 years, every 1400 years, it's half only half
• 23:38
  as strong as it used to be.
• 23:40
  The interesting thing isn't the future where it's headed, where it came from, 1400 years
• 23:44
  ago, it was twice as strong as it is today, 2800 years ago, doubling that would be four
• 23:50
  times as strong and then eight times and 1632, how far back can you go in history?
• 23:55
  They tell us the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, well, just one million years ago, the
• 24:01
  Earth would have vaporized from the field that's strong and so a limit, a reasonable limit
• 24:07
  according to the Earth's magnetic field is about 10,000 years.
• 24:11
  Could it be younger?
• 24:12
  Oh, easily, it could be younger than that, but not older.
• 24:15
  And there's all these processes that we have in science really quickly.
• 24:19
  There are no clocks on nature, none, no clocks whatsoever in nature that you could look
• 24:23
  at.
• 24:25
  We just have processes and by making assumptions about the processes, you can turn them into
• 24:30
  a clock.
• 24:31
  If your assumptions are wrong, your results are going to be wrong.
• 24:35
  What we like to show is even if you give them the bad assumptions, 90% of all the processes
• 24:40
  that we see yield young ages of time for one more really quick, Earth's population got
• 24:46
  about 8 billion people.
• 24:48
  You can't accumulate 8 billion people in 6,000 years.
• 24:51
  Actually, we only have about 4,000 to 1,000 years to do that because there was a flood
• 24:55
  wiped everyone out.
• 24:56
  We started over.
• 24:57
  We don't even have 6,000 years.
• 24:58
  We got 4,500 years.
• 24:59
  You could easily build up to 8 billion people in 4,500 years.
• 25:04
  I'll skip the details of that.
• 25:05
  It actually makes sense with growth rates that we have today.
• 25:08
  I'll end with this.
• 25:09
  If the Earth is billions of years old, the mankind's been around for a few hundred thousand
• 25:13
  years in our modern form.
• 25:14
  How many people should be on the planet?
• 25:16
  They wouldn't fit on the planet.
• 25:17
  They wouldn't fit stacked up to the sun.
• 25:19
  They wouldn't fit in the universe.
• 25:20
  You would need millions of universes to fit the people and you'd do population statistic
• 25:23
  formulas.
• 25:24
  It doesn't cut it.
• 25:26
  The biblical narrative matches up with population statistics and so many other things we could
• 25:30
  discuss.
• 25:32
  That was amazing, Jay.
• 25:34
  We can still say the Bible is true and we need to go to that as our source.
• 25:40
  Do you have a video on your website with some of this that we condensed in two episodes?
• 25:46
  Where would you direct people to see something like that?
• 25:49
  If they want to see more visuals, the starting point project.com, we have 34 free streaming
• 25:55
  videos.
• 25:56
  Just click on the button.
• 25:57
  You can also go to our YouTube channel and there's creation in six days series.
• 26:02
  There's a four part series.
• 26:03
  Each one's about a half an hour long.
• 26:04
  You can see all the science, all the graphs, all the visuals and everything.
• 26:08
  We have a 14 part podcast series to walk in through this, through the audio, if they
• 26:13
  would like that instead.
• 26:14
  Okay.
• 26:15
  Wonderful.
• 26:16
  The starting point project.com.
• 26:18
  I'm thankful that we did this and I know you could have gotten into detail in so much
• 26:23
  more, but the points you made, I think are especially the magnetic field.
• 26:27
  That is really interesting to me because if you actually do that and go back, yeah, we
• 26:32
  would have, we would even be an earth, but it wouldn't have even been here.
• 26:35
  That was an excellent point.
• 26:36
  So Jay, thank you so much.
• 26:38
  We appreciate your ministry, Lord willing.
• 26:40
  We will talk to you again.
• 26:41
  Jay Seager, the starting point project.com.
• 26:44
  Thank you guys more to come tomorrow.
• 26:46
  God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.