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Transcript

AI for Education at Instructure Canvas Caravan · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:05
Hey, greetings and welcome to the integrate this
0:07
ed tech podcast, as always. I'm joined by David
0:11
Berner. My name is Jeremy Micla and we're here
0:14
today. We're sharing our reflections on an event
0:20
that David and I both attended yesterday, which
0:23
was Wednesday, April 23rd at the Union Depot
0:28
building in downtown St. Paul that was put on
0:32
by Instructure. Some of you might know Instructure.
0:36
They are the company behind The LMS Canvas, they
0:40
also are behind the Learn platform, which I know
0:43
we've discussed on this show a few different
0:46
times. And they put out a great event focusing
0:49
on AI literacy, AI guidance, and how that's playing
0:54
out in schools across the country, but more with
0:58
a Minnesota sort of focus. We had some great
1:01
speakers including Amanda Bickerstaff who is
1:05
the developer of AI for Education with her website
1:09
and the content that she puts on there. I know
1:12
I've definitely shared out her prompt library
1:16
that she has on her website which is absolutely
1:19
fantastic if you're looking for templates and
1:21
ideas for how to create prompts to get the best
1:25
results possible. But then we were also joined
1:28
by the educational technology team from Bloomington
1:32
Public Schools here in Minnesota who shared lots
1:35
of great stuff about the work that they're doing
1:39
there to develop. policy, well not so much policy,
1:44
I guess guidance, right, that is really focusing
1:48
on students and teachers and buildings and districts
1:52
and even the community and how they're trying
1:55
to tie all of those things together to create
1:58
a learning environment that is going to include
2:02
the best that AI has to offer, as well as making
2:06
it a positive experience for instruction and
2:09
for learning. So yeah again a huge shout out
2:13
to Instructure for hosting that event. Not only
2:16
did we see and meet some great people, they also
2:20
put on some pretty great food spreads that they
2:24
laid out for a student didn't they David? Yeah
2:26
it was pretty crazy because the whole event was
2:29
free and I just thought Instructure did a really
2:32
nice job of like they really got the message
2:35
across. I feel like that they just wanted people
2:37
to be there for the event and to take in what
2:40
they were providing, not just food, but really
2:42
great ideas. I actually have to give a special
2:45
shout out to Amanda Bickerstaff because just
2:49
by chance, I guess, we ended up talking. We had
2:52
like a 30 minute meeting and she mentioned the
2:56
event to me, which was great because I had not
2:58
really heard about it. And I was like, Wait a
3:02
second, this is free. So we can go to this for
3:05
free and it's in St. Paul. So basically I checked
3:09
to see if I could make the two and a half hour
3:11
trek up to St. Paul from Marshall and then I
3:15
was like, Jeremy, you got to meet me there. So
3:17
we ended up going for free, got some really great
3:20
ideas from it. Instructure did a really nice
3:23
job of putting on. I would say a variety of sessions
3:26
that, you know, starting with Amanda and that
3:28
was the longest session. And I mean, I don't
3:30
know about you, but it felt like it was like
3:33
10 minutes. It was like just went by really fast
3:35
and it was super good. And if you're not following
3:39
Amanda or AI and education on LinkedIn, I would
3:43
definitely recommend doing that so you can see
3:45
some of the work that they're doing. They've
3:47
worked with a lot of schools and that was really
3:49
the premier piece of the event as the keynote.
3:54
And then there was a number of other folks. I
3:56
think Jeremy already mentioned like Bloomington
3:58
schools and that's doing some really good work
4:00
with AI guidance. And yeah, so. Yeah, we'll be
4:05
sure to add some of those links that we've already
4:07
mentioned and maybe a couple of more into the
4:10
show notes after the episode is over. But yeah,
4:13
no, I really thought that that team did a great
4:15
job and it was really nice to meet some of those
4:18
people. I've been in on a couple of webinars
4:20
from a couple of people that had presented. I
4:23
know they've been featured by Common Sense, the
4:26
Common Sense media. platform. So, you know, definitely,
4:32
they're coming from, I think, a great area of
4:34
expertise. And, you know, but yet at the same
4:36
time, they realize that they're still in the
4:39
trenches and doing all of the hard work. And
4:41
what is really neat is that everyone that was
4:45
there was just so willing to share everything
4:47
that they knew and the directions that they were
4:48
heading. And, you know, being facilitated by
4:52
Instructure, you know, an EdTech vendor, right?
4:57
a company that is trying to sell their product
5:00
and make money, it didn't feel, I didn't feel
5:03
like much of the day at all was a sales pitch,
5:06
right? It was more, I think, about they're trying
5:09
to do what's best for education and for educators.
5:12
And, you know, again, I, you know, to Kirk and
5:15
to Ryan, who put it on from Instructure, just
5:19
again, our huge thanks. but I think David we
5:23
kind of want to get into what were some of the
5:25
the key takeaways that you know the memorable
5:27
moments the top five right that we had and so
5:31
I'm going to start here you know and again these
5:36
aren't really in any particular order what we
5:38
thought were most important but we've just thought
5:40
that these were things that we wanted to make
5:42
sure that we share out to an audience as well
5:45
as things that maybe you're considering as you
5:48
work towards How are you going to implement AI
5:51
literacy and what sort of policies or better
5:55
word is guidance? I gotta kind of shift and pivot
5:57
my vocabulary with that because policy sometimes
6:02
comes with the consequences part, but we want
6:04
to focus on those positive directions that we
6:06
want teachers to go, which is the guidance part.
6:08
But one of the first ones that stuck out to me,
6:12
David, was this idea of AI literacy as being
6:18
an essential skill for students beyond the K
6:23
-12 classroom space, that this is a college and
6:26
career skill that is being looked for by employers
6:31
across the country. I know I read an article
6:34
probably about a month ago that I found it was
6:38
from LinkedIn. And based upon LinkedIn's own
6:42
internal data of key things that employers are
6:46
looking for in 2024 and 2025, the number one
6:50
skill that they want for future employees is
6:53
AI literacy. So, I mean, we can see that this
6:56
is a direction that things are going. That AI
7:00
literacy by the next five years is, or, you know,
7:05
that AI The AI is really changing that landscape
7:08
of jobs is really what I'm trying to say. That
7:11
in the next five years that we are projecting
7:14
that there's going to be about 170 million new
7:18
jobs that are going to come about because of
7:21
AI. But at the same time with that growth, there's
7:26
going to be a little bit of retraction in some
7:28
areas and they're projecting that about 92 million
7:31
jobs globally are going to be displaced. is gonna
7:36
be a huge net gain of opportunities for a lot
7:38
of people, as long as those people have those
7:41
skills. You know, it is definitely one of those
7:45
things that we can't shy away from, we can't
7:49
bury our heads in the sand and definitely pretend
7:51
that it doesn't exist, you know? Yeah, yeah,
7:57
and I would say that there, I think Amanda did
8:01
a nice job too about like, how people used to
8:05
put on their resume that it was you know you
8:08
when you listen on your resume that you were
8:10
you know you're proficient in excel microsoft
8:13
excel that was like whoa you know that's really
8:15
impressive but now the new thing is it's it's
8:20
taking that out and it's like ai literacy right
8:22
is what everybody is looking for um and i think
8:25
that that's what i think a lot of the conversations
8:28
are going to center around with I know you and
8:30
I work with a lot of different schools and it's
8:32
like that's what really we should be telling
8:35
them to focus on as a foundational concept, right?
8:38
Right. And have that plan. How are you going
8:42
to make student and teacher, you know, and administrator,
8:47
AI literacy a key component of what your goals
8:51
are for the 25, 26 school year coming up? Yep.
8:56
Yeah, exactly. And that kind of so that all leads
8:58
into my my first takeaway. So takeaway number
9:01
two from Jeremy and I from the event is that
9:05
the AI is now a everything is going to be like
9:10
life lifelong learning, right? It's not just
9:13
like you learn something in high school or you
9:16
learn something in college and you move on. It's
9:19
like everything is going to it's going to be
9:21
a part of every piece of your life from your
9:25
school career to your actual work career, and
9:29
how AI literacy is going to be involved in all
9:33
of that and is the foundational concept. One
9:37
thing that I really took away, we talked about
9:39
this, was that if you're a school district and
9:44
your thought is to, you know, not start the process
9:50
of talking about AI literacy or if you're just
9:52
ignoring it altogether, you're actually doing
9:54
your students a disservice because the student
9:56
access to that is going to help them begin their
10:00
learning process. When we talk about that lifelong
10:02
learning, you want to get them started on that
10:06
so that they're not operating from behind. One
10:12
of the things that blew my mind yesterday and
10:15
really hit home was that Even the districts that
10:18
are trying to meet AI head on, right? We have
10:21
districts that have been very proactive in AI
10:24
and what they're trying to do with it, or just
10:26
even just trying to understand it, right? Wrap
10:28
their heads around it. One of the things that
10:33
we almost have to pull back and do is start to
10:35
talk about AI literacy as a foundation because
10:39
there was a graphic yesterday that stood out
10:43
and we talked about where You have a variety
10:46
of school districts. There's like four approaches
10:49
to AI, right? One of them is that you're just
10:53
ignoring it altogether. One of them is that you're
10:57
trying to learn about it or no, I'm sorry. Number
11:01
two was you're waiting, right? You're like waiting
11:03
to see kind of where it goes. You're not opposed
11:07
to it, but you're just trying to navigate like,
11:10
which makes sense. I mean, I totally understand
11:12
that. there's a lot of uncertainty around it.
11:15
I think that's getting better. And then number
11:18
three is like, okay, you've had some training,
11:20
but everyone's just kind of on their own. This
11:23
teacher is using that tool and this school is
11:26
using that tool or we have one that's piloting
11:29
and one that's not. And I think the fourth piece
11:34
of that, the approach, which is the most important
11:37
is the organizational approach. And so there's
11:40
some questions that districts should be asking
11:43
about AI literacy and how that is going to be,
11:47
you know, defining what that means. And not only
11:51
what that means for your students, but what does
11:52
that mean for your AI team at your school? What
11:55
does that mean for your administrative team at
11:58
your school, the staff and the students, right?
12:01
The whole picture is how I would say. And Amanda
12:05
did a great job of laying out those four different
12:09
approaches and talking about how the first three
12:13
that I just mentioned, that's kind of where everybody
12:16
is. And we really need them to get to the fourth.
12:20
And then I think we'll see a lot of things around
12:22
AI literacy and everything will kind of start
12:26
to fall in place a little bit better. But yeah,
12:28
that's my way to rip off of yours. No, and definitely,
12:33
and I think that leads almost into the next key
12:36
takeaway that I really had here too, was about
12:40
the potential here of AI. And I think you and
12:43
I obviously agree that its potential to deeply
12:47
transform education is just so immense. And I
12:52
hate to make that sound like it's probably stated
12:56
way too much, but that potential is just so great.
13:01
And if you want to think about it, and I'm stealing
13:04
a little bit from Amanda's presentation, also
13:07
talking about some of the impacts that we can
13:10
see almost right now. that AI can have in your
13:16
education, in your instruction, is facilitating
13:20
some of that personalized learning. Right? Finding
13:23
ways to connect the content that you already
13:26
have to a greater diversity of students. And
13:30
there's many different ways to do that through
13:32
your lesson plans, through asking it to create
13:36
real -world examples, maybe of math problems
13:39
that pertain to the interest areas of different
13:42
schools. You know, looking at how it can be used
13:46
to improve some of your instructional practices.
13:50
You know, like, hey, give it the lesson. that
13:52
you, the presentation that you've given the last
13:55
five years, right? And say, let's put a modern
13:58
fresh spin and take away on this. is one thing,
14:03
the abilities that it's having, and she showed
14:06
some of the timelines of the progression of AI
14:08
in different areas. And one of them that I found
14:11
kind of fascinating was the ability to translate.
14:15
And we can see that the ability of AI to start
14:19
translating from English to other languages or
14:21
other languages to English or whatever, it is
14:24
rising up to the point where it is apt or surpassing.
14:29
what human potential ability is currently, right?
14:33
And all of this has happened in just this short
14:36
period of time, even since generative AI in the,
14:40
you know, which has been around for probably
14:41
10 ish years or so, but not really accessible
14:45
by people till chat GPT comes out with that 3
14:48
.5 model, which was what November of 2022. Yeah
14:53
so i mean we're only talking about two two and
14:56
a half years. Yeah yeah yeah so i mean it's just
15:02
it's just been so great but there's also i think
15:05
undeveloped potential that is just right out
15:08
there just on the horizon that we're going to
15:11
get to it and then Amanda called it kind of you
15:14
know what to look for in the in the medium term
15:16
right not. too far out. She wasn't willing to
15:20
prognosticate beyond kind of that five -year
15:23
outlook, but I mean it is going to have great
15:26
transformations in areas of teachers are going
15:29
to be able to make their own customized curriculum.
15:32
based upon their standards, their district guidance,
15:38
as well as the needs of themselves and their
15:41
students. So just a great potential there. The
15:45
ability to tap into a 24 -7 online support network.
15:50
And I know we're starting to see some of that
15:52
stuff, like I think Khan Academy that has Khanmigo
15:55
just is fantastic, right? And some of that stuff
15:59
that they have out there about that. You know,
16:03
how it could lead to maybe even the development
16:05
of some new assessment models just is just great.
16:08
But also at the same time, I think we also still
16:11
need to keep reminding people of some of the
16:13
limitations of AI and that aren't going away
16:16
anytime soon. You know, the limited knowledge
16:20
basis that it is trained on sometimes, you know,
16:24
which could be. potentially biased is something
16:26
we need to consider as well as, you know, the
16:29
propensity of it, perhaps to hallucinate. And
16:32
I know those are definitely warning things that
16:34
you and I have talked about in the past, too.
16:39
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And one of the things, too,
16:43
that we talked about was just the we we have
16:47
Matt Miller. This is kind of a little bit of
16:49
you wanted me to show the screen here now. I
16:51
see you've got it loaded there. Yep. Yeah. So.
16:54
You can throw Matt up on the screen there. And
16:58
so one of the things we have that's really exciting
17:01
is Matt Miller is actually going to be keynoting
17:05
at our AI symposium that we have coming up on
17:07
May 16th. And he talks a lot about in his AI
17:13
for Educators book. And we talked a bit about
17:16
this with him on our upcoming podcast release
17:19
on May 1st. So next week here, we talk about
17:24
he talks about tomorrow glasses, right? Like
17:27
preparing your students for what is to come,
17:30
rather than like, we want to be able to see what's
17:35
coming forward, get them prepared for that. And
17:38
I think that the AI literacy goes hand in hand
17:41
with that. But yeah, we have a great conversation
17:45
with him that's coming out next week. And so
17:49
you won't want to miss that when we release that.
17:52
And then the event itself actually is in our
17:57
SWWC. We have the event up. We're very excited
18:00
to have Matt join us and we'll have a bunch of
18:03
other breakout sessions as well that will be
18:06
centered around AI guidance and literacy and
18:09
some tools, which I'm also excited that Jeremy's
18:12
going to be doing a tool with some other members
18:14
on our team, Kyle and Megan. So very exciting
18:17
stuff. We'll have a lot of great things coming,
18:19
Matt, your way with that. But yeah, so to get
18:24
into the next takeaway I have, it's a bit about
18:30
being proactive. So districts really should start
18:35
to look at what they're doing with AI literacy.
18:38
And I think that we keep talking about the foundation
18:41
and what that means is to define what AI literacy
18:44
means for all those groups that are all the stakeholders
18:47
that are in your school district. Um, and so
18:51
as a singular school district, you, you know,
18:55
you want to start the process of defining AI
18:58
literacy. And also I, I'm a big advocate for
19:03
this and it's, it's creating a cross functional
19:07
team. It's having people involved in your team
19:10
that is, you know, consistently setting up a
19:14
meeting to be talking about AI. and its impact
19:17
on all these groups. So defining what AI literacy
19:21
means for your school, having a cross -functional
19:24
team. And Amanda pointed out yesterday, I think
19:27
this is a really, really great point, is that
19:29
that doesn't mean like having people on your
19:32
team that just like AI, right? Or having people
19:35
on your team that are just good at AI. It's having
19:39
people on your team that have a variety of perspectives
19:42
that are able to offer something to that group
19:48
that. Really takes in the whole of the school
19:50
district to individual school district should
19:53
have this and you should include people who hate
19:56
AI like it's funny to say but it honestly needs
19:59
to have people on there that don't like it that
20:02
much and you know having having that team. Is
20:08
going to be the start of the literacy foundation
20:12
because what. Amanda talked about yesterday and
20:15
I think is a great point as well, is those people
20:18
on your team, whether they hate AI or not, you
20:21
want that cross -functional team to be the first
20:24
ones that are AI literate, right? They understand
20:29
AI literacy and you're setting those definitions
20:34
and what that means and then working off of that.
20:37
And then that will trickle down to the rest of
20:39
the staff and the students. Right. And then from
20:44
there, it's kind of like you you've got that
20:47
that base and then it's gathering consistent
20:50
evidence once you've started to implement things
20:54
with your school district. And then from there,
20:57
right, developing guidelines. And I've seen we've
20:59
seen a number of guidelines in presented in different
21:02
ways. I think Jeremy is like we, you know, we
21:06
obviously are working off of like M .D .E. M
21:09
.D .E. has their guidelines. I know with our
21:13
region, so the Southwest, West Central region,
21:16
we've had a number of tech integrationists in
21:19
our area and our own team working together to
21:22
kind of break down the MDE guidelines and try
21:26
to determine, okay, these five areas, what does
21:29
that mean? And then what does that look like
21:31
in template form? So districts can start to digest
21:34
that and actually come up with a plan. And the
21:38
team that we've worked with have done a really
21:40
great job on that. But then, you know, like yesterday
21:43
we saw where you have like Bloomington, right?
21:47
They did a really great job with, I think, the
21:50
guidelines around like what tools to use and
21:54
when, when do they make sense for students when,
21:57
you know, those type of things that I don't,
22:00
I don't think I could be wrong, but I don't think
22:02
I've heard MBE mentioned like the guidelines
22:05
really when they were up there, but they did
22:07
a really nice job of laying out like their guidelines
22:10
from right? Thinking about AI literacy, having
22:14
their team, gathering evidence from the staff
22:18
and students, and then developing guidelines
22:20
around usage, right? So I think that all of that
22:25
is extremely important. And I really would like
22:28
to see more and more districts start to tackle
22:31
this. And I think you and I, you know, having
22:34
similar roles, we're here to support our districts
22:37
to do that. So Yeah, and I'd say I'd see I see
22:42
much of the same stuff with schools that are
22:44
around that I work with as well. You know, like
22:46
they need a little bit of support in that area,
22:50
which you know, I think. going to events like
22:53
this one. You know, they're able to hear from
22:57
some different perspectives of groups that are
23:00
out there and they're trying to do this. But
23:01
the key thing is you can't just let it lie. You
23:05
have to pick it up and you have to run with it.
23:07
And I think it kind of, you know, just like you
23:09
said, put the team together, right? And having
23:13
that team together, even with skeptics, even,
23:16
you know, consider bringing in parents or community
23:19
members into that mix as well. And even students,
23:23
right? It's going to help create, I think the
23:25
type of, you know, you talked about also a little
23:28
bit earlier, that organizational, you know, stage
23:33
that you want to get to. with AI literacy and
23:36
I think that's definitely on that roadmap to
23:39
be able to get there and I think one other thing
23:41
that you just mentioned here too that really
23:43
stuck out to me as I think something that gets
23:47
forgotten but is extremely important is the evaluation
23:50
piece. As things progress and as things change,
23:56
are you looking at how your guidance that you're
23:59
providing in your district is working or what
24:03
policies and things you suggest for your teachers
24:06
to implement as it relates to AI. If you're not
24:09
going back and changing those things, using feedback,
24:13
using, you know, experiences that you have gone
24:16
through to try to continuously improve, I think
24:20
then, you know, we're all wasting our time. If
24:22
it's going to be a one and done, this is our
24:25
policy set in stone and it can never bend, it
24:28
can never break, you know. It's not going to
24:31
be a model for success. Right and it seems to
24:34
me that all of this kind of centers around communication
24:37
like if you have open communication lines through
24:40
through all these different things that we're
24:42
talking about like you know with the with the
24:44
AI literacy and defining that as a school district
24:46
and your team you know establishing your team
24:49
talking constantly to teachers and to students
24:52
having open lines of communication are gonna
24:55
actually allow you this to be much easier of
24:58
a process and like you said. keeping them open
25:01
because as we know, changes have happened fast
25:04
and they'll continue to happen too. So exactly
25:08
and you know how far are we willing to predict?
25:10
So you have to kind of have that flexibility,
25:13
that agility even you know. I think we're kind
25:17
of setting up here for the the last takeaway
25:19
here that we have kind of I think ties into some
25:23
of your team building that you talked about too
25:25
and that is your What we're really, what the
25:29
goal should be is not to create a building full
25:32
of experts when it comes to AI. But what we want
25:36
to do is we want to be able to build the capacity
25:38
within all of the people in our districts to
25:43
be able to approach AI with that lens that it
25:48
can be an effective educational tool, right?
25:51
And it's a tool. We want to be able to describe
25:55
when are the right times to use that tool and
25:57
when are the best times to put that tool back
26:00
on the shelf. And I think by building that capacity
26:03
within the teams that you work with, whether
26:06
it's a grade level team, a department team, a
26:11
content team, whatever it happens to be with
26:14
whatever your role is, is I think extremely important.
26:17
um and it's i tell you even with the changes
26:21
it's i sometimes feel overwhelmed and i spend
26:24
a lot of my day looking at different ai related
26:27
things but something new catches me off guard
26:30
and a person from you know that i would never
26:34
expect is talking to me about some ai tool and
26:36
i'm like i've never heard of that and you know
26:38
like and i'm thinking like you spend your time
26:40
in a classroom full of fifth graders all day
26:43
long and when do you have time to learn about
26:45
this tool that I've never heard of like you're
26:47
catching me off guard and I just that's the moments
26:49
that I stop and remind myself I'm not an expert
26:52
on it all yeah and I don't think I ever will
26:55
be but you know I can continue to build capacity
26:59
to be able to you know explore even more. Right.
27:04
And I think it's great that you say that because
27:07
what we heard Amanda say yesterday is like, this
27:10
is a really interesting moment in time because
27:12
we all are learning this together. So we're all
27:15
trying to figure it out. And like, sure, like
27:18
someone may have heard of something that you
27:19
had not, or, you know, like an idea, but it's
27:22
like, you know, okay. So take that idea, right.
27:26
And then like you said, build capacity. So you're
27:29
learning from somebody they're learning from
27:31
you and It's actually really nice. I would say
27:35
what I've seen online and just talking with people
27:39
is that the community around this is really great.
27:43
I would say about sharing things out, being willing
27:47
to help others to increase their own capacity.
27:52
Right. And like you and I have shared things
27:54
like there's things you don't haven't heard of
27:56
that I've shared, things I've never heard of
27:58
that you've shared. And it's like, man, we're
28:00
all just trying to, you know, stay up on it.
28:04
And it's not like we're trying to get the scoop
28:05
on one another. You know, like, hey, I heard
28:07
about this first. You know, let me show you.
28:10
It's really about, hey, this is a great thing.
28:13
I'm going to share it out there because someone
28:14
else might have another use for it. Someone else
28:16
might take and run with it much further than
28:18
I ever could because my capacity in that area
28:21
might be at its limit, but someone else is just
28:24
expanding. Yeah, yeah, no, that was that was
28:27
really kind of a neat. I think a thing that I
28:31
gleaned out of it yesterday, so. Yeah. Well,
28:36
good, you know it was it was a great event, you
28:40
know, and we're excited to be able to implement
28:43
some of the things in. the different parts of
28:48
our jobs that we have coming up. I know with
28:50
you and you've got your AI symposium coming up
28:53
next month. I know you've got some other things
28:56
that are on your burner. Not to be funny, but
29:03
that you've got coming up where you're going
29:06
to be doing a lot of work with Cozen. Working
29:10
to help. districts implement AI guidance on their
29:14
teams. And so I think, you know, and I've got
29:18
some presentations that are coming up to districts
29:21
around me as well, as well as a couple of conferences
29:24
that are going to be happening here in June or
29:27
in August that I'll be a part of. But being able
29:31
to take some of these things that we've learned
29:33
here today, these takeaways and implement them
29:35
into future projects that we have, I think is
29:38
going to be huge. Yep. Yeah. And I would just
29:41
say, you know, leave the door open to, to people
29:44
sharing stuff and, and share with others. Um,
29:47
I think it's really, it's really good. That's,
29:49
I think what has been really nice about what
29:52
we do, cause we're two totally different organizations,
29:55
but you know, and we provide the same services
29:57
in different areas, but you know, we are at each
30:00
other's conferences and different things and
30:03
it's all just, uh, continuous learning. So that's
30:06
right. So, all right. All right. Well, thank
30:11
you for joining us here for this edition of the
30:14
Integrate This EdTech podcast. And as David pointed
30:18
out earlier today, make sure that you're tuning
30:20
in next time. If you're still listening to us
30:23
now, that's great. But next time, Matt Miller,
30:27
we've had a great conversation with him. And
30:31
I know there's going to be a lot of great stuff
30:34
that you can use to build your own capacity and
30:36
take away from it. Great. Until next time, we'll
30:40
see you. Thanks everybody.