Latest / Arroe Collins Like It's Live / Bringing Life Back Into Moses The Black With Actor Chukwudil Iwuji

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Bringing Life Back Into Moses The Black With Actor Chukwudil Iwuji · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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Speaker 1: Have you checked out Arrow dot net yet aarr Oe
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Speaker 1: dot net arr Oe dot Net. Enjoy your exploration. Right
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Speaker 1: here he comes and here's Arrow. Ladies and gentlemen, Oh,
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Speaker 1: listen to that official announcement. Man, woo, party a lot.
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Speaker 2: But the name is cool as Arrow. You did need announcements?
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Speaker 1: Come on God, and if one of those things I
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Speaker 1: wish I would have been having a party at my
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Speaker 1: house when my wife and I came up with that name,
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Speaker 1: because it was nothing but more than a club owner
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Speaker 1: inside the book that she was writing in nineteen eighty one. Man,
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Speaker 1: that was so many decades ago.
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Speaker 3: Wow, Wow, that's so eighty one. Jesus, I'm thinking what
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Speaker 3: I was doing in eighty one. I was in Legos, Nigeria.
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Speaker 3: I think I was just trying to learn how to skateboard.
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Speaker 1: And look at you. Now you've presented a movie here
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Speaker 1: Moses the Black And the thing that I love about
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Speaker 1: this is that once you see it you'll you'll look
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Speaker 1: look differently at the world again and again and again
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Speaker 1: you open our eyes to something. Why haven't we been
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Speaker 1: talking about this? I mean, did you ask the same question?
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Speaker 2: Absolutely?
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Speaker 3: When I got a call a zoom with Yolena Popovic,
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Speaker 3: director and her producing partner Alex And I said to her,
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Speaker 3: why don't I know who this guy is?
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Speaker 2: Right? And the reason I.
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Speaker 3: Don't know why this guy is is because we all
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Speaker 3: know what saints are supposed to look like, right, you know,
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Speaker 3: take a look at you know, in general, and I go,
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Speaker 3: this guy is not just a big figure. This guy
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Speaker 3: is a saint and I don't know anything about him,
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Speaker 3: and he has what's crazy.
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Speaker 2: About it is that you know, I mean right now?
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Speaker 3: But I live in Queens and there's a huge Greek
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Speaker 3: Orthodox community there, do you know what I mean of
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Speaker 3: which he is a huge part of that. And what
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Speaker 3: I didn't know of this guy. So that was a
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Speaker 3: big part of arre as to why I said yes.
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Speaker 3: I was like, yes, because any sort of project that
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Speaker 3: surprises me is certainly historically and stuff I feel like
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Speaker 3: I should be part of it in telling the story.
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Speaker 1: You know, well, I guess I'm the guilty one that
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Speaker 1: will instantly go and find out. Okay, I want to
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Speaker 1: find out who this is. I want to know why
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Speaker 1: they were looked upon as being a saint, and of
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Speaker 1: course I've got to go and find out what are
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Speaker 1: the rules of a saint. I don't know how many
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Speaker 1: times I've been to that website to make sure, and
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Speaker 1: it's almost like I have to say, Okay, I approve
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Speaker 1: they're a saint. Okay, I'm feeling I'm feeling it too.
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Speaker 1: We can go ahead now, I mean, did you do
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Speaker 1: the same thing in the way of you know, who
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Speaker 1: is this guy?
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Speaker 2: Absolutely?
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Speaker 3: I had to research, and of course it's it's a
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Speaker 3: limited amount that you can find out, but you know,
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Speaker 3: for me, for the purpose of this was just finding
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Speaker 3: out this Ethiopian born and I lived in Ephibia as
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Speaker 3: a kid, which is kind of crazy if Europian born,
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Speaker 3: you know, original gangster, you know, that's sort of what
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Speaker 3: I was just like, it was just blowing my mind
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Speaker 3: that this was a guy that had his you know,
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Speaker 3: he had his Rule to Damascus moment that isn't as
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Speaker 3: talked about in many ways. So yeah, I had to
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Speaker 3: go and understand why he's such an important figure, and
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Speaker 3: it is that he is so representative of redemption in
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Speaker 3: the faith, you know, the road to redemption. For that's
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Speaker 3: really very interesting. But part of what ties it into
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Speaker 3: the story Elena is told is that that he was
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Speaker 3: this gangster and the concept of gangster over the centuries,
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Speaker 3: you know, now they you know, sort of still exist
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Speaker 3: in the in the in the culture, you know, in
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Speaker 3: many ways.
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Speaker 2: So I felt an intrigue.
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Speaker 3: As observers of that world, you know, I was just
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Speaker 3: blown away as I found out more about him.
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Speaker 1: Well, and kudos to your writer as well as director
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Speaker 1: in setting up the story from frame one, I mean,
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Speaker 1: you know, I mean there was no mystery what we're
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Speaker 1: not all with that character that one day we're gonna
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Speaker 1: meet like a Yoda. Oh my god. It's from frame
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Speaker 1: one that you take us by the hand and lead
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Speaker 1: us along the way.
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Speaker 3: And I guess that's sort of you know, you know,
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Speaker 3: you have Malik, you know Marev's character, Malik, who's very
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Speaker 3: much the antagonist of the protagonist, sorry, protagonist of this piece.
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Speaker 2: And it's wonderful.
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Speaker 3: You know when you think of the role Moses, the
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Speaker 3: black place in that character's life is that, whether.
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Speaker 2: He knew it or not, he was he was of direct.
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Speaker 3: Lineage from that guy. Does that make sense the fact
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Speaker 3: he's doing this in you know, in the you know,
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Speaker 3: in today's times. It comes from way back then. You know,
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Speaker 3: you're you're making the same mistakes and you're looking for
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Speaker 3: the same way out as he did, you know.
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Speaker 2: So I love that she sets that up.
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Speaker 3: She makes that links straight away, and it's not like, oh,
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Speaker 3: we're telling a story and will jump back to it. No,
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Speaker 3: she managed to make that interweave those complexities right through
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Speaker 3: the script. So even when he's not on screen, Moses
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Speaker 3: is not on screen, he's still part of the story.
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Speaker 2: And kudos to Omar's performance for being able to sort of,
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Speaker 2: you know, sort of inhabit two timelines at the same time.
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Speaker 1: In many ways, you know, well and yeah, there's magic there,
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Speaker 1: and it's almost like, well, and I keep telling myself
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Speaker 1: it's not magic, it's spirituality, dude. There is a difference. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: And when you start looking at the spiritual side of it,
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Speaker 1: you're going, Okay, I was meant to be here today.
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Speaker 2: It was meant to be Yeah, absolutely.
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Speaker 3: And it's I like the word to use the word
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Speaker 3: spiritual because I would always describe myself as a spiritual
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Speaker 3: person of a religious person, you know what I mean.
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Speaker 2: I really I love the source material as it were.
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Speaker 3: I love the idea of it being bigger than us
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Speaker 3: rather than arrow it down to any specific uh sector
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Speaker 3: as it were. So there is something deeply spiritual about
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Speaker 3: this very universal search to be better than what you
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Speaker 3: are and believing you can be better than that and
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Speaker 3: raise yourself above it. You know, I found it deeply.
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Speaker 3: You'd picked the right word for it and why it
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Speaker 3: hit me. So it is a deeply spiritual experience.
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Speaker 1: You know, Well, it's going to be it's gonna be
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Speaker 1: interesting to find out how it affects everybody. And and
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Speaker 1: to me, that's part of the conversation piece, and and
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Speaker 1: and the the acceptance of the art, you know, with
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Speaker 1: with your writer and director in the in the way
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Speaker 1: of saying, look, we're going to create something that it's
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Speaker 1: going to create several different forms of conversation, and we've
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Speaker 1: all got to sit there and no matter how indifferent
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Speaker 1: we are, we're going to find something in common. And
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Speaker 1: that's what I picked up on this. We're going to
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Speaker 1: find something in common.
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Speaker 3: And I think you've hit this the complete code of
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Speaker 3: all art. That's what art actually wants to do. It's
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Speaker 3: not really to blog us over the head with an opinion,
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Speaker 3: is to get people talking about it and find something
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Speaker 3: that connects us all. You know, that really does connect
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Speaker 3: us so and connecting us all doesn't mean we all agree,
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Speaker 3: but that connection to discuss it and to have it
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Speaker 3: part of what we talk about or think about, or
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Speaker 3: share or whatever, is what connection is.
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Speaker 2: And I think I think Elena would be very.
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Speaker 3: Happy to hear you use that idea that it connects us,
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Speaker 3: because I think that's that's what all real artists go after.
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Speaker 3: And I think she really is this wonderful combination of
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Speaker 3: being deeply spiritual and deeply artistic at the same time.
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Speaker 1: You know, see, I would love to have a microphone
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Speaker 1: in a room when you bring all of these people
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Speaker 1: together to talk about Moses the Black only because I'll
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Speaker 1: bet you instead of using words, they're going to do
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Speaker 1: what my grandmother used to do. She's going to make sounds.
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Speaker 1: In other words, whether you agree with it or not,
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Speaker 1: you're going to be going. And to me, that is
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Speaker 1: a lost piece of humanism that we can't ever just
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Speaker 1: set free. You've got to be there to experience it absolutely.
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Speaker 4: That sound of hum yeah, I know, And coming from
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Speaker 4: you know, Nigerian, but that's just a sound you grew
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Speaker 4: up with, you know, acknowledgement and or disagreement and stuff.
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Speaker 3: Those sounds that they go deep. It's beyond words in
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Speaker 3: many ways. They sort of they're very surprising and very sudden.
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Speaker 3: Those reactions and those sounds, you know, very primal because
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Speaker 3: they hit you deep their dut punch you know, or
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Speaker 3: gut reaction. They haven't they haven't been filtered down to
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Speaker 3: words yet. You know, it's at its raw stage and
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Speaker 3: that's when you get those sort of sounds and reactions.
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Speaker 1: So yeah, absolutely, well everybody must have been feeling that
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Speaker 1: on the set because I mean, how is it that
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Speaker 1: I feel that everybody knew each other because the way
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Speaker 1: that the lines were delivered, it was like it was
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Speaker 1: actually happening in that moment of now.
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Speaker 2: I mean, look, they get.
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Speaker 3: You're enough put together a great cast, you know, and
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Speaker 3: al Shne and the casting department did a great great
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Speaker 3: job in bringing people that were very authentic. You know,
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Speaker 3: You've mentioned Cable Wiz and Omar who's just a great lead.
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Speaker 3: I mean, he's just like I think this is one
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Speaker 3: of his great performances. Really, but I think part of
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Speaker 3: that is that these guys know what this story is.
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Speaker 3: You know, there's they're they're.
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Speaker 2: Authentic Chicago people.
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Speaker 3: They're authentic storytellers that you know, they tell it in
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Speaker 3: hip hop and music and stuff. Now they're telling it
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Speaker 3: in a different form. None of this is new. None
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Speaker 3: of it is is them having.
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Speaker 2: To to to to.
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Speaker 3: Go find this character. They they know these characters in
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Speaker 3: many ways. They've been voicing these journeys for a long time.
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Speaker 3: So it's beautiful that they, you know, got a chance
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Speaker 3: to work on a project that allows that untold story
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Speaker 3: or that unseen story to be told.
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Speaker 2: You know. And Yelena, i know, did a a lot of.
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Speaker 3: Work talking to two figures that come from that world,
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Speaker 3: whether they're still in that world or have moved on
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Speaker 3: to their points of redemption, who authenticated her storytelling and
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Speaker 3: that so that she knew that when people say this,
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Speaker 3: this is what they would say.
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Speaker 2: Also, you know, it isn't glamorized or it isn't.
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Speaker 3: It isn't it isn't made to seem prittier more romantic
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Speaker 3: than it is. It just it's very stretched down from
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Speaker 3: the first frame on.
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Speaker 1: You know, you know, please do not move. We'll be
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Speaker 1: right back with Chicko Dia Wougie coming up next. The
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Speaker 1: name of the movie is Moses the Black. We are
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Speaker 1: back with Chickodea Wougie. How much of your live stage
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Speaker 1: experience was brought into this because I'm a firm believer
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Speaker 1: that once you've experienced that live stage any film, especially
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Speaker 1: in indie film, you're you're able to bring it life
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Speaker 1: within the moment of all things here. And it's like,
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Speaker 1: I'm always inspired by those that do a live stage
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Speaker 1: performance because it's there, it's now, it's happening.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's a sense, you know, I take
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Speaker 3: every take on screen or TV. I don't think of
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Speaker 3: it as, oh, this is just one take. I can
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Speaker 3: have another take. I always approach it in the sense
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Speaker 3: that the assumption that I will only have one take,
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Speaker 3: because that's just years of theaters, Like, you don't get
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Speaker 3: a second take in front of a live audience, do you.
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Speaker 2: Know what I mean? You don't you get it right
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Speaker 2: in that sense, So I.
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Speaker 3: Can't you know voice necessarily what it is that you're seeing,
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Speaker 3: or what affects you are or when you see it.
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Speaker 3: But I do know that I approach every take so
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Speaker 3: that I don't assume I'll get another shot at it.
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Speaker 2: Does that make sense? So I put everything into every take.
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Speaker 3: But yes, I think part of that comes from stage
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Speaker 3: training and thing fact that I'm not there to waste
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Speaker 3: anyone's time.
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Speaker 2: I've got to know those lines cold.
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Speaker 3: I've got to be able to like let go know
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Speaker 3: it so well I can let go of it so
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Speaker 3: my body takes over, because really we want to watch
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Speaker 3: people feeling and making other people feel things. We don't
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Speaker 3: want to watch people acting. You know, you want it
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Speaker 3: all to be in your body so much that you
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Speaker 3: can just be open to what's in front of you,
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Speaker 3: which is what made actually filming this world very difficult
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Speaker 3: for me because a lot of the filming, as you've seen,
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Speaker 3: is like isolated. I didn't get to interact with with
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Speaker 3: the other actors. I had one scene with Cable and
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Speaker 3: then with the guys who played my followers, but in general,
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Speaker 3: a lot of what I had to experience I had
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Speaker 3: to generate from inside and that that's a very different
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Speaker 3: experience from a lot of the acting I'm used to.
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Speaker 3: But again, it's something that you do live, is that
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Speaker 3: you just go, well, if I'm on stage and I'm
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Speaker 3: playing Henry the Fifth and I have to pretend that
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Speaker 3: this sleepy crowd on a Sunday afternoon, two thousand soldiers
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Speaker 3: on the fields.
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Speaker 2: Of Agent Court.
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Speaker 3: You create it and you make it real for your
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Speaker 3: body so you can say it.
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Speaker 2: And I think that's that's a.
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Speaker 3: Very useful skill to use when you're shooting in front
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Speaker 3: of a green screen, or you're shooting in front of
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Speaker 3: you know, and you're supposed to be believing it's fourth century.
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Speaker 2: Egypt. You know.
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Speaker 1: I got to tell you when I went walking into
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Speaker 1: Elevation Church with Stephen Ferdick this past Sunday, I was
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Speaker 1: sitting there looking for Moses the Black. I wanted to
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Speaker 1: hear more word about Moses the Black. And the reason
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Speaker 1: why is because he's the He's the saint of non violence.
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Speaker 1: Oh give me some Moses a Black right now. Let
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Speaker 1: me raise my hands high.
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Speaker 2: In the air. Absolutely.
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Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, what a great what a great
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Speaker 3: thing to be a saint of, especially in the times
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Speaker 3: we're in, right, And I feel that's I mean, talk
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Speaker 3: about a redemption arc. To go from who he was,
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Speaker 3: the original gangster, to be the saint of that is
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Speaker 3: quite extraordinary and a testimony to to I think the
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Speaker 3: human spirit in many ways, because that's you know, like
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Speaker 3: I've said before, like it's just a belief that I
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Speaker 3: can be better, I can do better, I can make
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Speaker 3: people around me do better. And that's sort of a
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Speaker 3: mission that if we all sort of had my God,
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Speaker 3: it'd be a different world right now. But yeah, give
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Speaker 3: me more of that guy, I mean we, I mean,
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Speaker 3: he needs to be in them, in them, I mean
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Speaker 3: I can everyone. You know, you drop the phrase route
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Speaker 3: to Damascus and every you know, most people know what
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Speaker 3: you're talking about if they have any sort of religious background,
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Speaker 3: but who knows anything about Moses the Black because talk
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Speaker 3: about a route to Damascus?
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Speaker 2: You know, in many ways.
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Speaker 1: Well one of the hidden messages here, and I know
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Speaker 1: that people will pick up on it, even if it
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Speaker 1: hits him a couple of days after they've seen the film.
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Speaker 1: The main message where you are, where you've been. It
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Speaker 1: doesn't matter where you end up. And it's like, yes,
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Speaker 1: because we spend so much time in a past that
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Speaker 1: we want to rewrite, rewrite, rewrite, rewrite. Well, now now
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Speaker 1: it's based on a true story, it's not even the
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Speaker 1: real story. So this movie says, wake up, wake up
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Speaker 1: and find your peace.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I said you've phrased how I've always
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Speaker 3: liked to put it. I remember doing the interviews and
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Speaker 3: I just say, where you are right now doesn't have
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Speaker 3: to be where you end up tomorrow. And that's the
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Speaker 3: whole point, is that we have this, and you know,
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Speaker 3: in many ways, it's very hard to wake up in
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Speaker 3: a certain place, a dark place or a sort of
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Speaker 3: place that seems the walls are closed in and and
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Speaker 3: gen that the human will and the spiritual faith that's
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Speaker 3: required to actually believe I can get beyond these walls,
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Speaker 3: you know, which is a big chunk of society you know,
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Speaker 3: are born into like some of the walls closing in
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Speaker 3: right from the start. It takes a lot, so it
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Speaker 3: kind of needs more projects like this to break beyond denomination.
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Speaker 3: It's not about denomination, you know that more than anything
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Speaker 3: that is about It's like, that's why I specifically said
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Speaker 3: the human spirit and whatever you need to drag you
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Speaker 3: out that to say this doesn't have to be all
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Speaker 3: there is. And it's very you know, I hope I
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Speaker 3: don't sound disingenious to be talking about it. I've been
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Speaker 3: very lucky in life with amazing parents and a great
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Speaker 3: life and whatever, so I'll tell you a story. This
16:13
Speaker 3: story always moves me. And this is when art meets
16:16
Speaker 3: wild life.
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Speaker 2: I was playing Hamlet in New York.
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Speaker 3: At the Public Theater, and part of before we came
16:24
Speaker 3: to do the run at the Public, we did it
16:27
Speaker 3: with the mobile unit, which is how the public started.
16:30
Speaker 3: It's called the mobile unit that we took it to prisons,
16:33
Speaker 3: community centers, homeless.
16:35
Speaker 2: Shelters and stuff before.
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Speaker 3: Bringing it to the main stage, right, And one of
16:39
Speaker 3: the stops was rikers.
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Speaker 2: And you're doing it in front of these prisoners.
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Speaker 3: And I'm about to do to be or not to
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Speaker 3: be that is, I mean, the whole question of taking
16:48
Speaker 3: your life or art and stuff. And I remember starting
16:52
Speaker 3: to do it, and the way we were playing it,
16:54
Speaker 3: I literally had tied myself up the sort of like
16:57
Speaker 3: hose around Miami, was ready to like shoot myself an overdose.
17:02
Speaker 3: So as I started to be or not to be,
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Speaker 3: and I looked across and there was this inmate who's
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Speaker 3: looking at me, big guy. I would use the word intimidating,
17:11
Speaker 3: looking normally just that makes sense. And he's looking at
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Speaker 3: me and he sees me with that needle about to
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Speaker 3: shoot up, and he just voices silently with his mouth just.
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Speaker 2: Goes, don't do it. Oh, don't do it, he says.
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Speaker 3: He shakes his head and said, don't do it to me,
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Speaker 3: to Hamlet, and.
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Speaker 2: I broke and I did that.
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Speaker 3: See, I did that speech to be a not to
17:33
Speaker 3: be in a way I'd never done it before, because
17:35
Speaker 3: here was a guy facing many many years in these
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Speaker 3: dah walls, and he's watching me play, this guy who's
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Speaker 3: saying I just want to end it, and.
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Speaker 2: He's saying, don't do it. It's there's more to it.
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Speaker 3: And so I the human spirit and the will to
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Speaker 3: survive and the ability to survive and the ability to
17:57
Speaker 3: rise up is such an important message that that's not
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Speaker 3: what makes the news.
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Speaker 2: The news is usually.
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Speaker 3: When we act in the opposite way, that's what makes
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Speaker 3: big news.
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Speaker 1: You know.
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Speaker 3: What I mean is not the human spirit. It isn't
18:10
Speaker 3: the positive things like that. I would love to tell
18:12
Speaker 3: that story to the world that that's what I experience
18:15
Speaker 3: in Reikers, you know. So yeah, so that's that's that's
18:21
Speaker 3: what we're capable of.
18:22
Speaker 2: You know.
18:23
Speaker 1: And of course the vision I just got with you
18:25
Speaker 1: sharing that story is that if time took you back
18:27
Speaker 1: to back in the day of Paul who was in prison,
18:30
Speaker 1: and you were about ready to do Shakespeare and Paul
18:32
Speaker 1: just happened to be in the attendance. And Paul is
18:35
Speaker 1: sitting there saying, don't do it, don't do it, and
18:38
Speaker 1: I just I just pictured that because and then let's
18:41
Speaker 1: just say you chose not to do it. How would
18:43
Speaker 1: that change other people's lives around the two of you?
18:47
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Because all of a sudden,
18:48
Speaker 1: now it involves community.
18:51
Speaker 3: Yes, And that is the key about it is you
18:54
Speaker 3: know you need it by example?
18:55
Speaker 2: You know, you.
18:58
Speaker 3: You stop by changing person and usually the closest person
19:01
Speaker 3: to you is you. Right, you start by changing you,
19:05
Speaker 3: and then you affects other people. And yeah, it's such
19:11
Speaker 3: an important message about how.
19:13
Speaker 2: And you don't know.
19:14
Speaker 3: I was, you know, and in many ways, and there's
19:17
Speaker 3: so many ways of changing people.
19:18
Speaker 2: But actually I was.
19:19
Speaker 3: I got to London a few weeks ago and it
19:22
Speaker 3: was really funny.
19:23
Speaker 2: I was coming back I.
19:24
Speaker 3: Don't know where I was coming back from, by I
19:26
Speaker 3: wanted to grab something to eat and I said, of
19:29
Speaker 3: was outside a grain restaurant and I was just looking
19:32
Speaker 3: at the menu and this guy is next to me
19:36
Speaker 3: and he starts staring at.
19:37
Speaker 2: Me, and I'm like oh my god, what's going on?
19:39
Speaker 3: And he says, excuse me, you don't remember me, but
19:43
Speaker 3: I remember you because fifteen years ago you gave a
19:47
Speaker 3: workshop at the old VIC Theater and you took me
19:50
Speaker 3: aside and I was having problems with the scene and
19:53
Speaker 3: you talked about me and the scene and who I
19:57
Speaker 3: was and where I could go. And you don't realize
20:00
Speaker 3: is the ripple effect you have on people? Because I
20:03
Speaker 3: remember that fifteen years later. And I looked at him
20:07
Speaker 3: and I was just saying, I don't remember this guy.
20:10
Speaker 2: I don't even remember.
20:11
Speaker 3: The conversation, but the ripple effect taking time with one
20:18
Speaker 3: person can have.
20:20
Speaker 2: We can't underestimate that, you know what I mean?
20:22
Speaker 3: Because he's gone on and told that story to god
20:25
Speaker 3: knows how many. He's now a playwright screen right, so
20:28
Speaker 3: he's telling stories, you know, and hopefully affecting other people
20:33
Speaker 3: in that way from a conversation I don't even remember,
20:37
Speaker 3: but I know at the time it was important that
20:40
Speaker 3: I put forward my best foot to help this person.
20:43
Speaker 2: Does that make sense? And that's what that's what's affected.
20:47
Speaker 3: And he used the phrase the ripple effect you have,
20:51
Speaker 3: and I just went, oh my god. I called I
20:54
Speaker 3: called my wife on the phone and I said, I
20:56
Speaker 3: just that just blew me away.
20:58
Speaker 1: You know, Wow, you have got to come back to
21:01
Speaker 1: this show anytime in the future. The door is always
21:03
Speaker 1: going to be open for you.
21:05
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I'd love to I'd love to say.
21:08
Speaker 1: Show you'd be brilliant today.
21:10
Speaker 2: Okay, I will you too, And thanks for having me.