Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / [EP 431] Vinyl Records: The Hunt for the Perfect Sound with Ken Micallef

Transcript

[EP 431] Vinyl Records: The Hunt for the Perfect Sound with Ken Micallef · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

0:00
Speaker 1: I have a crazy $ 60, 000 turntable in there right now
0:03
Speaker 1: by a company called J. Sikora. It has incredible detail
0:06
Speaker 1: and it's a really huge soundstage. It's really deep. It's
0:09
Speaker 1: a really grand, shimmering, beautiful sound. But I also have
0:12
Speaker 1: a Thorin's turntable. That's my go-to from 1957. It's noisy
0:17
Speaker 1: by comparison and the notes are more scrunched together. But
0:20
Speaker 1: because of its technology, it's a combination belt and hydro
0:23
Speaker 1: drive turntable. It just generates rhythm in a way the $ 60, 000
0:26
Speaker 1: turntable just can't do.
0:29
Speaker 2: But we're totally booked.
0:30
Speaker 1: Rock and roll! Well, I think I'll leave you to
0:33
Speaker 1: your reading. Little hand says it's time to rock and roll.
0:36
Speaker 1: Rock and roll!
0:38
Speaker 2: We are totally booked. Welcome back to Booked on Rock.
0:45
Speaker 2: Conversations with authors, musicians, and insiders revealing the stories behind
0:50
Speaker 2: classic rock's greatest songs, albums, and artists. I'm Eric Senech.
0:54
Speaker 2: Thanks to everybody who supports Booked on Rock on Patreon.com.
0:57
Speaker 2: Backstage Pass members can now get every episode in both
1:00
Speaker 2: audio and video completely commercial-free, along with early access to
1:04
Speaker 2: new episodes. If you'd like to grab the Backstage Pass,
1:07
Speaker 2: it is just $ 5 a month. Click the link in
1:09
Speaker 2: the show notes or go to bookedonrock.com. Now on to
1:13
Speaker 2: our show. What makes a Beatles record worth nearly $ 20, 000?
1:17
Speaker 2: And can a vinyl pressing from 60 years ago really
1:21
Speaker 2: sound better than one made today? Music journalist Ken McAuliffe
1:26
Speaker 2: joins me to discuss his book, Small Luxuries Vinyl. We'll
1:29
Speaker 2: explore the secrets behind great sounding records, the hunt for
1:33
Speaker 2: rare albums by rock legends, and why vinyl continues to
1:37
Speaker 2: thrive in the age of streaming. Ken, thank you so
1:40
Speaker 2: much for being here.
1:41
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on, Eric. This is a blast.
1:43
Speaker 2: Such a good book. And thank you, by the way,
1:44
Speaker 2: you're going to be sending me a physical copy of
1:46
Speaker 2: this book. And I'm really looking forward to it. I
1:48
Speaker 2: got the PDF here and it is, the layout's beautiful,
1:52
Speaker 2: the photos, the way it's written. It's a collector's item.
1:56
Speaker 2: It's a great Christmas gift, I guess you could say, right?
1:59
Speaker 2: Good holiday gift. And you opened the book by questioning
2:03
Speaker 2: whether CDs and streaming really improved on vinyl. What do
2:08
Speaker 2: you think the music industry misunderstood about the experience of
2:12
Speaker 2: listening to records?
2:13
Speaker 1: Well, I think the fact that records have been, you know,
2:17
Speaker 1: making a comeback for the last, since 2008, record sales
2:20
Speaker 1: go up every year, every year. And if they could
2:23
Speaker 1: count used record sales in with that, it would be
2:25
Speaker 1: enormous because they can count all the new stuff, but
2:28
Speaker 1: they don't count all the used record sales. And in
2:30
Speaker 1: New York, there are more used record stores that I
2:32
Speaker 1: can keep up with. But I think basically what they missed,
2:35
Speaker 1: I have this theory that I think explains it. You know,
2:39
Speaker 1: when the record resurgence began around 2008, I had read
2:43
Speaker 1: once that the greatest majority of people buying the records
2:45
Speaker 1: were 25-year-old women. Now, granted, some of them were buying
2:48
Speaker 1: those for the album cover art, but I also think
2:51
Speaker 1: kids who grew up on MP3s which is a little
2:53
Speaker 1: sliver of an analog waveform, a digital sliver, heard like
2:57
Speaker 1: their favorite record, be it Van Halen or The Cars
3:00
Speaker 1: or Rumors or whatever, even on a decent hi-fi with
3:03
Speaker 1: a decent turntable, and they're hearing the full analog waveform,
3:06
Speaker 1: and they get it right away. I mean, I was
3:11
Speaker 1: a CD adopter. I worked at Tower Records in the
3:14
Speaker 1: early 90s when the store went from vinyl to CD
3:17
Speaker 1: in the scope of about two months. The managers just,
3:20
Speaker 1: everything went out. And CDs are so expensive then. But
3:24
Speaker 1: I think people like the sound. I like the tactile
3:27
Speaker 1: nature of having a full cover. And plus, they'd like
3:30
Speaker 1: to own the music. You know, the majors now just
3:32
Speaker 1: want you to stream everything. But now we see there
3:35
Speaker 1: are no CDs being released really by majors. It's all
3:38
Speaker 1: either a streaming thing and the vinyl. So does that
3:41
Speaker 1: answer your question at all? It does, yeah. It does.
3:45
Speaker 2: But I'm curious as to what the industry was thinking
3:49
Speaker 2: when they wanted to change over to cassettes and maybe
3:52
Speaker 2: more so CDs. What were they thinking?
3:55
Speaker 1: You know what they were thinking. Money. We're going to
3:58
Speaker 1: resell our entire catalog. And they did. And it was
4:01
Speaker 1: perfect sound forever. Those original CDs, I can remember I
4:04
Speaker 1: would get promo CDs, a big bag, and I finally
4:07
Speaker 1: traded them for like a CD player. And those original
4:10
Speaker 1: CD players were so horrible. Now, granted, something still only
4:14
Speaker 1: came out on CD. I have a wall of CDs
4:16
Speaker 1: in there, mostly of electronic music from the 90s, like
4:19
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff on Warp that only came out
4:21
Speaker 1: initially on CD. But I think they just saw dollar signs. And,
4:26
Speaker 1: you know, engineers hated working with tape like Rudy Van Gelder,
4:32
Speaker 1: and he couldn't wait to get into digital. He was
4:34
Speaker 1: the main engineer for Blue Note. And I just think
4:37
Speaker 1: they saw dollar signs. They resold their entire catalog. I mean,
4:41
Speaker 1: they made a lot of money.
4:43
Speaker 2: Did you see where things were going and not in
4:45
Speaker 2: a good way when we started getting into streaming, like
4:48
Speaker 2: with Napster?
4:49
Speaker 1: I had no real opinion. I mean, I'm not a, uh,
4:54
Speaker 1: even now, I mean, I own a really crummy CD
4:56
Speaker 1: player and, um, I don't stream. I mean, I review
4:59
Speaker 1: for Stereophile and I am the, I am turntables and
5:03
Speaker 1: I'm all analog and tube amps and horn speakers. And I'm,
5:06
Speaker 1: I'm very, I'm old and I'm old world. Uh, streaming
5:10
Speaker 1: to me, even really expensive streaming sounds like you're taking Soma,
5:15
Speaker 1: you know, that pill from 1984, uh, It makes everybody happy. Streaming,
5:19
Speaker 1: to me, it all sounds exactly the same, even on
5:22
Speaker 1: really expensive rigs. It's got this synthetic quality. Plus, you
5:26
Speaker 1: don't know what the master is. You don't really know
5:27
Speaker 1: what you're listening to. As for a record, any record
5:31
Speaker 1: on a decently set-up turntable has a visceral quality that
5:34
Speaker 1: people can hear right away. To me, it's day and night.
5:37
Speaker 1: There's no middle ground.
5:38
Speaker 2: Did you ever try out Neil Young's, what was it called? Pono.
5:44
Speaker 1: Pono? Pono. I had friends who were big advocates of Pono.
5:48
Speaker 1: I never really heard it. I owned all the iPods
5:55
Speaker 1: and all that. I obviously have an iPhone, but I never...
5:57
Speaker 1: It's weird because in the world of jazz, musicians still
6:03
Speaker 1: cut CDs, so I get tons of promo jazz CDs
6:08
Speaker 1: all the time because that's just what operates in that world.
6:10
Speaker 1: And I'll listen to a few and you can tell
6:12
Speaker 1: by and large the great art of recording has sort
6:14
Speaker 1: of been lost. You can really hear it on major labels.
6:17
Speaker 1: I was listening to a Maggie Rogers record the other day. And,
6:21
Speaker 1: you know, granted I have a stupid expensive stereo, but
6:24
Speaker 1: compare that to like an Aretha record from the 70s
6:28
Speaker 1: or even a Cars record from the 80s when they
6:31
Speaker 1: really knew how to record bands. So much knowledge has
6:34
Speaker 1: been lost from all the great um, recording studios, but
6:39
Speaker 1: long story short, I'm just not a fan of, uh,
6:42
Speaker 1: of a lot of modern production on modern records or, um,
6:46
Speaker 1: streaming in general. It's just not my thing. I only
6:48
Speaker 1: have so much bandwidth in my head. So it is.
6:51
Speaker 2: Great to see that the younger generation is getting into vinyl.
6:54
Speaker 2: The book goes all the way back to the, to
6:57
Speaker 2: the early days, going back to 1948, for this question,
7:01
Speaker 2: the introduction of the 33 and a third RPM LP
7:04
Speaker 2: that year gave listeners roughly 20 minutes of music per side.
7:07
Speaker 2: How did that change the way people experienced albums?
7:10
Speaker 1: I think that was the beginning of the, that led
7:12
Speaker 1: to the concept albums. You know, those three Frank Sinatra
7:16
Speaker 1: albums that were concept albums, the, in the wee small hours,
7:21
Speaker 1: only the lonely. And then, you know, right up to
7:25
Speaker 1: like Rubber Soul or something, people sat and listened to
7:28
Speaker 1: an entire record. You know, I'm old enough to remember
7:32
Speaker 1: the early 60s before the Beatles when the record stations
7:35
Speaker 1: were dominated by Paul Anka and a nut full of
7:38
Speaker 1: cello and Neil Sadaka and what I think of as
7:41
Speaker 1: really horrible music. And the Beatles came along and sort
7:44
Speaker 1: of changed everything and album-oriented rock going right into the
7:47
Speaker 1: era of Van Halen kind of took over many years.
7:50
Speaker 1: It seems like we're back to singles now. But I
7:52
Speaker 1: think albums... long players, meant you didn't have to get
7:58
Speaker 1: up so often. Even though 78s can really sound amazing
8:01
Speaker 1: on a really good system, I've heard 78s at shows
8:03
Speaker 1: that have incredible dynamics. But the album format let people
8:09
Speaker 1: sit there, listen to the whole record, and experience music
8:13
Speaker 1: in a different way. And the artist could write a
8:15
Speaker 1: real work, like Pet Sounds. That's one work, start to finish.
8:21
Speaker 1: So I think it gave the artists more leeway to
8:24
Speaker 1: really create something in their head. And it gave listeners
8:28
Speaker 1: a different way to listen to music, I guess.
8:30
Speaker 2: In the 50s, you talk about how inexpensive portable record
8:33
Speaker 2: players helped fuel rock and roll's popularity. How important were
8:36
Speaker 2: they to the rise of teenage music culture?
8:39
Speaker 1: Well, I'm also old enough to remember all the crummy
8:41
Speaker 1: Japanese transistor radios from the early 60s, but everybody had one. Well,
8:46
Speaker 1: they sounded bad, but you could carry them anywhere. And
8:51
Speaker 1: that's similarly true In the research I did, there were
8:54
Speaker 1: a lot of portable turntable outfits. I had the speakers
8:59
Speaker 1: opened up and the turntable dropped down so it could
9:02
Speaker 1: be like a whole party thing. There were even cars
9:05
Speaker 1: that had 45 RPM players like where the ashtray would be.
9:11
Speaker 1: So it definitely gave rise to youth culture. And it's
9:17
Speaker 1: funny because it also allowed classical music to be listened
9:21
Speaker 1: to in extended form. But then, strangely enough, classical lovers
9:27
Speaker 1: were the first ones to go for CDs and digital.
9:29
Speaker 1: They went for it right away because it was so quiet.
9:34
Speaker 1: And even now, I can remember, I worked at Tower,
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Speaker 1: you could get classical records for nothing at the Tower
9:40
Speaker 1: Annex because classical people did not want them. And they're
9:44
Speaker 1: still probably the biggest proponent to digital.
9:47
Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
9:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. I mean, there are... classical, vinyl reissues,
9:54
Speaker 1: but nothing like jazz or rock. I mean, jazz, it's
9:58
Speaker 1: a feast. I was at the Vinyl Summit in Kansas
10:01
Speaker 1: a couple weeks ago, and just a three-day party celebrating
10:06
Speaker 1: all of Chad Kasem's work, analog productions. He had giant
10:09
Speaker 1: collections of record sellers from New Orleans to Rochester, New York,
10:15
Speaker 1: with their selling records. There were mastering demos. There were
10:19
Speaker 1: live recording sessions going on. I mean, really a three-day
10:22
Speaker 1: celebration of vinyl.
10:24
Speaker 2: The Technics SL-1200MK2, one of the biggest breakthroughs in audio history.
10:30
Speaker 2: What is that? And that's the picture of it right there.
10:32
Speaker 2: That's the cover of the book.
10:34
Speaker 1: Yeah.
10:35
Speaker 2: What made it so revolutionary, particularly for DJs and the
10:38
Speaker 2: development of hip-hop?
10:40
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not as knowledgeable about DJ culture. We
10:44
Speaker 1: should talk to my friend Jeremy Elkin. But obviously the
10:47
Speaker 1: pitch shifter allowed you to blend records. and blend tempos,
10:51
Speaker 1: which became so important in house music and disco music.
10:55
Speaker 1: And those things were, those turntables are so indestructible. And
10:59
Speaker 1: even though I can't tell them apart, even now they
11:00
Speaker 1: all look the same to me, they are indestructible. You know,
11:04
Speaker 1: I work at a, on some weekends I play at
11:07
Speaker 1: a bar in Crown Heights called Kissa Kissa. It's an
11:10
Speaker 1: all jazz bar. They have 5,000 jazz records on the wall.
11:13
Speaker 1: And those, we have new techniques. They were new a
11:16
Speaker 1: year ago. Those things run nine hours a day, every day.
11:21
Speaker 1: They're indestructible. And it's funny because they seem like they're
11:24
Speaker 1: made out of plastic, but it's obviously some heavy-duty plastic.
11:28
Speaker 1: But they just, you know, give it to the Japanese
11:31
Speaker 1: to take something that we innovate and they make it better.
11:34
Speaker 1: That's a perfect example of it. And that's why people
11:36
Speaker 1: still look for those turntables, even though if you look
11:39
Speaker 1: for used techniques, you have to really make sure the
11:41
Speaker 1: bearings are still good because that's what wears out. You know,
11:44
Speaker 1: the bearings under the platter and in the tonearm. But
11:48
Speaker 1: they're just, the fact that they're bomb-proof. and they're just
11:54
Speaker 1: indestructible and just work nonstop. You know, they're direct drives.
11:58
Speaker 1: They start on a dime, so it makes it great
12:00
Speaker 1: for radio stations as well.
12:02
Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say, I believe those are
12:04
Speaker 2: the ones that I've always seen in my days working
12:06
Speaker 2: in radio. Pretty much that was the one.
12:09
Speaker 1: I think back in the 60s and 70s, you may
12:12
Speaker 1: have seen, before the Technics took over, there were more
12:15
Speaker 1: pro turntables. I know in Europe that would have been
12:18
Speaker 1: the EMT in the German turntables. I honestly don't know
12:21
Speaker 1: what was the standard in the U.S. It wouldn't have
12:24
Speaker 1: been an AR turntable. I don't think we made the
12:26
Speaker 1: first suspended tables. It might be in the book, but
12:30
Speaker 1: I don't remember. You know, I've learned a lot of
12:33
Speaker 1: stuff researching the book, but I don't remember what the
12:38
Speaker 1: turntable in most radio stations would have been before the Technics.
12:41
Speaker 1: I don't remember.
12:43
Speaker 2: But I do remember the Technique. I learned this when
12:46
Speaker 2: I was in college radio. You got to cue that
12:49
Speaker 2: record up just so because it takes a little while
12:52
Speaker 2: for that thing to speed up to the right speed.
12:54
Speaker 2: If you go too close, that start of the song
12:57
Speaker 2: is going to be like, you know, it starts.
13:02
Speaker 1: Well, that's the magic of being the DJ. You can
13:05
Speaker 1: cue the record up and then just hold the platter. Right.
13:08
Speaker 1: And the technique is so strong, it's lifted up and boom,
13:10
Speaker 1: you're into the tune. And I guess that's part of
13:12
Speaker 1: the reason it became so popular at clubs because it just,
13:16
Speaker 1: you know, it started right up. There was no lag
13:18
Speaker 1: from a belt drive.
13:22
Speaker 2: For listeners unfamiliar with turntable technology, can you explain what
13:25
Speaker 2: a stylus is and how it works? How much does
13:28
Speaker 2: its shape also affect the sound?
13:32
Speaker 1: There are different stylus shapes, elliptical, conical, which is older
13:37
Speaker 1: or an older style, micro ridge, fine line. And from
13:42
Speaker 1: conical to micro ridge or fine line, you're getting a
13:47
Speaker 1: stylus shape that conforms more closely to the groove wall.
13:50
Speaker 1: So it extracts more of what's literally in the groove walls.
13:55
Speaker 1: You know, there is so much music ingrained in a
13:58
Speaker 1: vinyl record. And that's why we're seeing the rise of
14:02
Speaker 1: ultrasonic record cleaners, which are really a new development for
14:06
Speaker 1: vinyl because there's just, you know, those things, ultrasonic cleaners
14:10
Speaker 1: kind of remove a level of gray you didn't know
14:12
Speaker 1: was there. It cleans out so much in the groove,
14:14
Speaker 1: but different stylus profiles, do different things. And some of
14:19
Speaker 1: them have real magic, like Portafon SPUs are an older
14:24
Speaker 1: type of cartridge. The stylus is the part that reads
14:27
Speaker 1: the groove. And they're, I think, primarily conical. But they
14:30
Speaker 1: get a really romantic sound that a lot of people really,
14:32
Speaker 1: really love. And then you have more, I don't want
14:38
Speaker 1: to use the word clinical. Last night I was at
14:40
Speaker 1: a friend's house and we were playing a $ 7, 000 Tedesco cartridge,
14:44
Speaker 1: which is a top-end Japanese cartridge. And it extracted incredible
14:48
Speaker 1: information out of the groove walls, yet it was still
14:50
Speaker 1: sort of romantic. You know, you do sort of get
14:54
Speaker 1: what you pay for, but you don't have to spend
14:57
Speaker 1: a ton of money to get a cartridge with the stylus.
15:00
Speaker 1: It sounds really good. Essentially, the stylus is on the cantilever, which,
15:06
Speaker 1: you know, generates vibration, which is picked up by the coils.
15:10
Speaker 1: And in some magic in there, to me, it's really
15:12
Speaker 1: magic how it all happens. And I don't quite understand it.
15:16
Speaker 1: how the stylus reads these waveforms embedded in the groove
15:20
Speaker 1: and turns it into sound waves that are amplified by
15:23
Speaker 1: the preamp in the system. It's really a magical, unusual thing.
15:28
Speaker 2: Is the stylus what's holding the needle?
15:32
Speaker 1: The stylus is the needle.
15:33
Speaker 2: Is the needle.
15:34
Speaker 1: The stylus is attached to the cantilever. Stylus, needle, stylus
15:39
Speaker 1: is the more proper term, I guess. Pickup head. The
15:43
Speaker 1: stylus is what literally... traces the grooves in the record
15:48
Speaker 1: and takes those vibrations and transmits them through the rest
15:53
Speaker 1: of the electromechanical part of the cartridge through the wires
15:58
Speaker 1: that eventually go to your preamp or your phono preamp,
16:00
Speaker 1: then get amplified. It's a really delicate, fine cartridge. And
16:05
Speaker 1: the cleaner your records are, the better they can be.
16:09
Speaker 1: And that's why it's funny. We look at the way
16:12
Speaker 1: people used to treat their records. like they were indestructible.
16:15
Speaker 1: You know, vinyl is very, very soft material. But now
16:20
Speaker 1: we see the rise of it's very easy to get
16:22
Speaker 1: really great poly insert sleeves and people are fastidious. I
16:26
Speaker 1: know so many young people have so much incredible knowledge
16:29
Speaker 1: about collecting records. I mean, some of them are in
16:31
Speaker 1: the book. I mean, they've turned it into a real science.
16:35
Speaker 1: It's really something.
16:36
Speaker 2: And there's something about the look of a vinyl record
16:39
Speaker 2: player and the stylus itself. It's a classy look to it.
16:44
Speaker 2: And I think that's part of the reason why it's
16:45
Speaker 2: come back.
16:46
Speaker 1: I'm kind of so deep into it. Like some people,
16:49
Speaker 1: there's a thing that's sort of poo-pooed now, but called
16:52
Speaker 1: the wife acceptance factor among audiophiles. You want your girlfriend
16:56
Speaker 1: or wife to like the way the system looks. I
16:59
Speaker 1: kind of don't understand any of that. I'm a bachelor.
17:04
Speaker 1: But I guess some people do see the turntable as
17:06
Speaker 1: a sexy thing, I guess.
17:08
Speaker 2: I mean, you see it in movies a lot. Guy
17:13
Speaker 2: takes the girl back after a date. Would you like
17:16
Speaker 2: to hear some music? Drop the needle.
17:20
Speaker 1: Well, it is a much more... You're hearing something much
17:23
Speaker 1: closer to the original big bang of the original recording.
17:27
Speaker 1: It was embedded in the grooves. The lacquer's cut. The
17:33
Speaker 1: records are pressed. It's a direct connection of those waveforms.
17:38
Speaker 1: And it's all kind of antique and old-fashioned in a way.
17:42
Speaker 1: But it's a very visceral connection that, to me, digital
17:45
Speaker 1: just never gets anywhere close to.
17:47
Speaker 2: High-end turntables, can you tell the difference if you're listening
17:50
Speaker 2: to an album on a high-end turntable as opposed to
17:52
Speaker 2: maybe something that's cheap, something you'd buy at a local
17:58
Speaker 2: store that's low-end?
18:00
Speaker 1: The biggest difference is that high-end turntables are much quieter
18:06
Speaker 1: because they have dampening done through different ways. There are
18:11
Speaker 1: two different schools of thought. One is that we're going
18:13
Speaker 1: to pile on all this weight to dampen the vibration
18:16
Speaker 1: and the resonances that can muddy up the very fine
18:20
Speaker 1: signal that the stylus is reading. And then there's another
18:25
Speaker 1: school of thought propounded by Roy Gandy at Rega where
18:28
Speaker 1: you want the turntable to be as lightweight as possible
18:32
Speaker 1: so the music is freer to eject from the turntables.
18:38
Speaker 1: And a really good Rega turntable Music flies off those things.
18:42
Speaker 1: And you can get a reggae turntable for like $ 400,
18:44
Speaker 1: and the same basic principles are in there. A really
18:47
Speaker 1: cheap turntable like a Crosley or something not only will
18:51
Speaker 1: destroy your records, because they're just built really poorly, you're
18:56
Speaker 1: not really hearing what this thing is all about. For me,
19:03
Speaker 1: the cheapest thing you can get is probably a U-Turn Orbit,
19:05
Speaker 1: and they're about $ 350, I think. That's a well-made little turntable.
19:09
Speaker 1: But the major differences are the soundstage gets bigger with
19:14
Speaker 1: a better turntable. The background is blacker, as they call it.
19:19
Speaker 1: It becomes more silent. And when you have more silence,
19:23
Speaker 1: then you can hear more of what's on the record.
19:25
Speaker 1: You'll hear things you've never heard before. I reviewed... I
19:30
Speaker 1: have a crazy $ 60, 000 turntable in there right now. Wow, $ 60, 000? Yeah,
19:35
Speaker 1: it's by a company called J.Sakura. And it does... It
19:40
Speaker 1: has incredible detail and it's a really huge soundstage. It's
19:44
Speaker 1: really deep. It's a really grand, shimmering, beautiful sound. But
19:47
Speaker 1: I also have a Thorin's turntable. That's my. go-to from 1957.
19:53
Speaker 1: And it's noisy by comparison, and the notes are more
19:56
Speaker 1: scrunched together. But because of its technology, it's called an
20:00
Speaker 1: Eidler Drive. It's a combination belt and Eidler Drive turntable.
20:05
Speaker 1: it just generates rhythm in a way the $ 60, 000 turntable
20:09
Speaker 1: just can't do. It just doesn't have that sense of
20:12
Speaker 1: live music, even though it's incredible in its own right.
20:16
Speaker 1: But you can get a, you know, if you can
20:17
Speaker 1: get a $ 1, 000 turntable, you'll hear the difference right away. Plus,
20:20
Speaker 1: those turntables will last you a lot longer. Like, the
20:24
Speaker 1: Thorns I have was given to me by Art Dudley,
20:26
Speaker 1: who was an editor at Stereophile who passed away, unfortunately.
20:29
Speaker 1: But he gave that to me, and we've, and then
20:31
Speaker 1: Mike Trey, another one of our writers, kind of or
20:34
Speaker 1: for me refurbished. And it's just, it's a little work
20:37
Speaker 1: of art. It looks like a watch inside. It's Swiss.
20:39
Speaker 1: And they're so well built. But as I said, you
20:42
Speaker 1: can get a good turntable from U-Turn, Orbit, or Rega
20:46
Speaker 1: for around 400 bucks. And if you take care of
20:48
Speaker 1: it and set it up correctly, it'll last, it'll probably
20:50
Speaker 1: outlast you.
20:52
Speaker 2: When I was a kid, I used to put, because
20:55
Speaker 2: I'm old enough to where I remember playing a lot
20:57
Speaker 2: of vinyl as a kid on a regular basis. I mean,
21:00
Speaker 2: I bought, actually the first album I ever bought was
21:02
Speaker 2: Police Synchronicity. And I listened to my brother's turntable and
21:06
Speaker 2: you would oftentimes have to put a penny on that head.
21:10
Speaker 2: Otherwise it would bounce or it would skip.
21:12
Speaker 1: You remember what kind of turntable it was?
21:14
Speaker 2: No, no, it wasn't. It wasn't high end.
21:16
Speaker 1: You know, it was high end maybe, but not.
21:19
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:20
Speaker 1: It just wasn't set up correctly because even, yeah, either
21:23
Speaker 1: it wasn't level or the arm just wasn't set up
21:26
Speaker 1: correctly because even an old turntable, you know, it's very,
21:29
Speaker 1: you can find all these old setup records from like
21:32
Speaker 1: the 60s and 70s. and channel balance and all this stuff, anti-skate.
21:37
Speaker 1: But that was just set up incorrectly. And that kind
21:40
Speaker 1: of goes along with the myth of, oh, I love
21:42
Speaker 1: that crackly sound of the vinyl. It shouldn't sound crackly
21:45
Speaker 1: at all. There's no crackle. The romance shouldn't be cracks
21:52
Speaker 1: and popples and pops and noise. It should be just
21:54
Speaker 1: the beauty of the sound. And that's why record cleaning
21:57
Speaker 1: machines have become so popular.
21:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where proper cleaning comes in. I was going
22:01
Speaker 2: to ask you about that. How much of the the
22:03
Speaker 2: noise can actually be eliminated through proper cleaning. In my
22:06
Speaker 2: radio days, when we'd have a lot of scratches and crackles,
22:09
Speaker 2: we would spray water on it.
22:11
Speaker 1: That's a place to start. I mean, people get really fanatical,
22:14
Speaker 1: far more fanatical than I get about cleaning records. I mean,
22:18
Speaker 1: I have a vacuum machine, which you can get from
22:20
Speaker 1: Project or VPI. And then I have the Humming Goober Ultrasonic,
22:24
Speaker 1: which is like 400 bucks. But it makes a huge difference. Especially,
22:30
Speaker 1: I mean, you sort of have to get both because...
22:34
Speaker 1: the vacuum machine will get off fingerprints and oil and
22:37
Speaker 1: like surface grime as where the ultrasonic, which came from
22:41
Speaker 1: cleaning jewelry, goes much deeper in the grooves. It even gets,
22:46
Speaker 1: it even gets rid of things that were there when
22:48
Speaker 1: they pressed it. Cause I was in Kansas a couple
22:51
Speaker 1: of weeks ago at the, at the analog production pressing plant.
22:53
Speaker 1: Pressing plants are filthy places. It's like a, it's like
22:57
Speaker 1: a car garage. There's noise and dirt everywhere. And so, yeah,
23:01
Speaker 1: the more you can clean your record, uh, I don't
23:04
Speaker 1: know if you can clean it too much. I mean,
23:06
Speaker 1: you don't want to go crazy. You want to be
23:08
Speaker 1: careful what you use to clean it with. But I've
23:10
Speaker 1: heard people running records through ultrasonic machines up to three times.
23:14
Speaker 1: But you have to be careful because if you look
23:16
Speaker 1: and as you clean records in an ultrasonic machine, little
23:20
Speaker 1: pieces of the record are coming off in the water.
23:23
Speaker 1: You know, it becomes cloudy and dark. So you have
23:26
Speaker 1: to be really careful with that. But to answer your question, yeah,
23:28
Speaker 1: cleaning makes a huge difference.
23:29
Speaker 2: But cleaning it incorrectly can cause damage. What are the
23:32
Speaker 2: most common mistakes people make when they're caring for their collections?
23:36
Speaker 1: Not storing their records vertically. They've got to be vertical,
23:40
Speaker 1: not horizontal. It's really basic. You have to keep them
23:43
Speaker 1: out of the sunlight. Older record jackets, I mean really older,
23:47
Speaker 1: like the 60s going back, as they get older, they shrink.
23:50
Speaker 1: So you can't force the record in there. It's best
23:54
Speaker 1: to put the jacket in a plastic sleeve and the
23:57
Speaker 1: record in its own sleeve behind the jacket. You have
24:01
Speaker 1: to clean the dust off every time you use it.
24:03
Speaker 1: I mean, it requires a lot of care. I mean,
24:06
Speaker 1: it's second nature to me. There's a lot of cleaning
24:10
Speaker 1: fluids out there. You don't want to use tap water
24:12
Speaker 1: because it's full of impurities and crap. You can drink it,
24:15
Speaker 1: but don't put it on your record. Most people use
24:19
Speaker 1: distilled water. I work at the Jazz Record Center, this
24:24
Speaker 1: amazing store on Saturdays here in the city. And the
24:28
Speaker 1: owner uses a combination of 95% distilled water, 2.5% alcohol,
24:35
Speaker 1: and 2.5% photo flow, which is a surfactant that helps
24:38
Speaker 1: it to spread. Now, some people who are alcohol, they
24:40
Speaker 1: just flip out. But this guy has set the mark
24:44
Speaker 1: for a lot of really expensive records in the world, really.
24:47
Speaker 1: So I think he knows what he's doing. You just
24:49
Speaker 1: have to be very careful with whatever you put on
24:51
Speaker 1: the record.
24:51
Speaker 2: If we used to mix water in rubbing alcohol, I think.
24:55
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.
24:55
Speaker 2: Those are the two we mixed. And then we put
24:57
Speaker 2: it in a little thing to just spray to clean
24:59
Speaker 2: your eyeglasses with.
25:00
Speaker 1: Right. Just a really small amount, you know, like 0.2%
25:04
Speaker 1: versus 100% of distilled water because the alcohol will evaporate.
25:12
Speaker 1: You know, people, you know, people like the cheapest way
25:16
Speaker 1: to get into cleaning your records is probably the spin
25:18
Speaker 1: clean machine. I reviewed the Humming Guru manual cleaner, which
25:22
Speaker 1: is a little bit more, but I thought it was
25:24
Speaker 1: really superior and not as sloppy and messy. And you
25:29
Speaker 1: get the satisfaction of rotating the record through the solution.
25:32
Speaker 1: And then they provide like a dryer where you can
25:35
Speaker 1: slot in all the records. But I think the SpinClean
25:39
Speaker 1: is about $ 80. The Humming Guru manual cleaner is around $ 100,
25:44
Speaker 1: I think.
25:44
Speaker 2: Ken McAuliffe, the author of Small Luxuries Vinyl. By the way,
25:47
Speaker 2: what was the first vinyl record? you ever bought?
25:51
Speaker 1: That's a really good question.
25:54
Speaker 2: Like I said, I remember the police synchronicity saved up
25:57
Speaker 2: with my paper route money.
26:00
Speaker 1: I think for me, I think it was something new
26:02
Speaker 1: by the Beatles before I even had a record player.
26:07
Speaker 1: I can tell you the first jazz record I bought,
26:10
Speaker 1: and it's related to a story. My sister lived in
26:14
Speaker 1: New York for a long time before I did, so
26:15
Speaker 1: I visited her in 1979, and we walked down the block,
26:18
Speaker 1: and she says, Miles Davis lives down that street. I've
26:21
Speaker 1: told this story a lot. And I walked on the
26:23
Speaker 1: block and he was out front. He had kind of
26:26
Speaker 1: a Spanish looking apartment talking to some lady. And this
26:29
Speaker 1: is when he was in isolation around 78, 79. And
26:32
Speaker 1: I said, do you mind if I take a photo?
26:35
Speaker 1: And he kind of did that like a king. I
26:37
Speaker 1: took a photo of him, a couple. I still have them.
26:39
Speaker 1: And I've written about that a couple of times. So
26:41
Speaker 1: I came back to North Carolina and bought Miles Davis Nefertiti,
26:46
Speaker 1: which is a pretty avant-garde record. And I'd drink a
26:49
Speaker 1: lot of red wine and make chicken and listen to that.
26:52
Speaker 1: That got me into Miles and kind of opened up
26:54
Speaker 1: that whole world for me. But the first rock record
26:57
Speaker 1: was probably something new. But before I got into jazz,
27:01
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I grew up in the South.
27:02
Speaker 1: So I was in the Allman Brothers and Jethro Tull
27:04
Speaker 1: and Brooklyn Hammer and all that stuff. Nice.
27:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of blue. Miles Davis, that's the go-to. That's
27:09
Speaker 2: the one my dad always told me and my brothers about.
27:12
Speaker 2: That's the one you got to get. That has been
27:15
Speaker 2: reissued hundreds of times. You point down the book Led
27:18
Speaker 2: Zeppelin III is more than 450 different vinyl versions. How
27:23
Speaker 2: does a collector decide which pressing to buy?
27:25
Speaker 1: I guess it's a matter of what you want. I mean,
27:29
Speaker 1: there are some camps that believe the original pressing or
27:33
Speaker 1: as close to the original will sound better than a
27:37
Speaker 1: brand new reissue. Because new reissues is a new mastering
27:40
Speaker 1: engineer and he's making decisions that he wants generally remastered
27:46
Speaker 1: records have more bass because back then they couldn't cut
27:48
Speaker 1: them with bass because it would just record systems couldn't
27:52
Speaker 1: contract them um i mean for the average consumer you
27:57
Speaker 1: know some of these modern reissues sound great you know
28:00
Speaker 1: but for someone like me who's kind of hardcore uh
28:04
Speaker 1: i mean i can't afford original pressings because those are
28:06
Speaker 1: thousand dollar records but i get as close as possible
28:08
Speaker 1: to the originals like a second or third reissue and
28:12
Speaker 1: that still has that sound of the original recording that
28:16
Speaker 1: I want to hear. It doesn't have as much bass
28:18
Speaker 1: as a modern reissue, and it might not be as silky,
28:21
Speaker 1: but those records in the jazz world cut by contemporary
28:26
Speaker 1: or Rudy Van Gelder at Blue Note or Rudy at
28:30
Speaker 1: Prestige or Impulse or Mode or Rudy at Savoy, those
28:35
Speaker 1: records have a certain sense of life force and presence
28:38
Speaker 1: that just jumps out of a system. And some people say, oh,
28:41
Speaker 1: they were engineered to jump out of you know, crummy hi-fis,
28:45
Speaker 1: but it's more than that. You can hear it. I've
28:47
Speaker 1: had people here, and I've compared Music Matters pressings, which
28:50
Speaker 1: are highly regarded jazz reissues, with my early second or
28:54
Speaker 1: third pressings, and they can hear the difference right away.
28:57
Speaker 1: But most modern listeners want to hear bass. I mean,
29:00
Speaker 1: most modern reissues are cut for modern hi-fi systems, just
29:04
Speaker 1: like back in the day, the original engineers were cutting
29:06
Speaker 1: them for the hi-fi systems of their period. So it's
29:11
Speaker 1: really just a matter of taste and what you want
29:12
Speaker 1: to hear.
29:15
Speaker 2: You talked about records that are expensive. There's a rare
29:18
Speaker 2: 1963 stereo pressing of the Beatles, Please, Please Me, sold
29:23
Speaker 2: for nearly $ 20, 000. What makes that particular version so valuable?
29:28
Speaker 1: I only realized this after I wrote the book. I
29:31
Speaker 1: interviewed a collector who's from Short Hills named Adam Shanker,
29:35
Speaker 1: who I talked to for the collectible blues and rock records.
29:38
Speaker 1: and he made the point that that black and gold
29:41
Speaker 1: Parlophone label, they had something to do with Dick James,
29:46
Speaker 1: the Beatles publisher, and something about the language change, so
29:51
Speaker 1: that record went out of print in like two months,
29:53
Speaker 1: or that version, and it went to the more familiar
29:56
Speaker 1: Parlophone label, which is what they still use in most
29:59
Speaker 1: of the reissues. So it's just a matter of it
30:01
Speaker 1: wasn't out there very long. You know, some records are
30:04
Speaker 1: really collectible because there aren't, not many of them came out.
30:07
Speaker 1: On Blue No, there's Hank Mobley, 1568, they call it.
30:11
Speaker 1: They're only about, from what Fred Cohen told me, the
30:13
Speaker 1: Jazz Record Center, only 1,500 of those were pressed. So
30:17
Speaker 1: that makes that extremely valuable because they're just, you know,
30:20
Speaker 1: scarcity like anything else. And if you're a Beatles collector
30:26
Speaker 1: and you have the money, you know, you want the
30:28
Speaker 1: earliest thing you can get, I suppose.
30:30
Speaker 2: You also highlight rare original pressings by Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Hendrix,
30:34
Speaker 2: and the Velvet Underground in the book. Of all the
30:36
Speaker 2: classic rock records that you discuss, which would be your
30:39
Speaker 2: ultimate holy grail and why?
30:41
Speaker 1: It'd be a Beatles record for me. Some first pressing
30:44
Speaker 1: Beatles record. I mean, like Ringo sold his copy of
30:48
Speaker 1: the first white album, like 0001. I forgot how much
30:51
Speaker 1: stupid money. You know, in the book, I interview another
30:55
Speaker 1: person He was supposed to be my jazz collector, but
30:58
Speaker 1: he had so many amazing rock records. Like he had
31:00
Speaker 1: three sealed copies of the Beatles Butcher cover. This is
31:05
Speaker 1: an extremely wealthy individual from a family that's built some
31:10
Speaker 1: of the major complexes in the city. And he had
31:13
Speaker 1: all these amazing collectible Blue Nut records, but his pride
31:17
Speaker 1: and joy were those Beatles records. He had a copy
31:19
Speaker 1: of that Quandrupel 01 White Album.
31:22
Speaker 2: For those not familiar with that story, The Butcher, that
31:25
Speaker 2: was a limited, a limited release because it was deemed
31:30
Speaker 2: offensive or. Yeah.
31:31
Speaker 1: I mean, it's still pretty offensive, I guess, you know,
31:33
Speaker 1: it's them with a bunch of cut up baby dolls
31:36
Speaker 1: hanging over their bodies and, and that's still pretty foul now.
31:39
Speaker 1: So they, I mean, I think I've seen one of
31:42
Speaker 1: the stories and like I said, he had three of
31:44
Speaker 1: them sealed. I couldn't believe it. I mean, so those
31:47
Speaker 1: were really, really early examples because eventually they just covered
31:53
Speaker 1: those with another cover and you had to, I don't
31:56
Speaker 1: know how people decided or knew how to peel it
31:58
Speaker 1: off or whatever, how to steam it off. Yeah, but
32:01
Speaker 1: that's particularly strange here. But for me, it would just be,
32:06
Speaker 1: I mean, I have a bunch of early, like I
32:08
Speaker 1: have a Beatles German Magical Mystery Tour, which is the
32:11
Speaker 1: first true stereo. And that really sounds wonderful. And you
32:14
Speaker 1: can find Beatles records for not so much money because
32:17
Speaker 1: there are so many of them. But I'd love to
32:20
Speaker 1: get a copy of that first. Please, please me. That
32:22
Speaker 1: would be incredible to hear a clean version. Because that
32:25
Speaker 1: is actually an incredibly well-recorded album. It just jumps out
32:29
Speaker 1: of a good hi-fi. It has so much energy.
32:31
Speaker 2: What about albums that were overlooked or sold poorly when
32:34
Speaker 2: they were first released, but then they went on to
32:36
Speaker 2: become incredibly valuable decades later? What transforms a forgotten record
32:41
Speaker 2: into a collector's holy grail?
32:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get into that a little bit. Nick Drake,
32:46
Speaker 1: I guess, is the most obvious example of someone who
32:49
Speaker 1: is just not appreciated. And there seemed to be a
32:52
Speaker 1: lot of those folk artists who were not appreciated. Judy Sill.
32:55
Speaker 2: Well, it's usually somebody that sadly passed before their time
33:00
Speaker 2: and suddenly.
33:00
Speaker 1: It becomes valuable. There were so many records being cut
33:06
Speaker 1: and made in the 70s. There's an amazing store out
33:09
Speaker 1: in New Jersey called Ravila Grooves and Gear, and I
33:12
Speaker 1: was there last week, and he had all these crazy British...
33:17
Speaker 1: prog rock records and Belgian prog rock records I'd never
33:21
Speaker 1: seen before. And they were just wild because studios used
33:25
Speaker 1: to be everywhere. And it was cheap to make a record.
33:30
Speaker 1: And even now, when I go to that store, that's
33:32
Speaker 1: an amazing store. It's in Milltown, New Jersey. They have
33:35
Speaker 1: so much stuff. I always find records that I've never
33:39
Speaker 1: seen before. You know, in New York, all the stores
33:41
Speaker 1: are picked over. You almost never see something like that.
33:44
Speaker 1: But that's the great thing about record stores, and they're
33:46
Speaker 1: all over the country now. You'll find stuff that they
33:49
Speaker 1: bought out of some guy's attic. But to answer your question,
33:53
Speaker 1: I think Nick Drake is probably the best example of that.
34:00
Speaker 1: Or like Fred at the store, he has these eBay
34:04
Speaker 1: auctions that are really crazy, and he sold an absolute
34:06
Speaker 1: mint first copy of the first John Coltrane blue crane.
34:10
Speaker 1: That brought $ 12, 000, which is huge for a Jasmine. I mean,
34:15
Speaker 1: Beatles records go for a lot more than that. And
34:17
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's the famous Led Zeppelin record that
34:19
Speaker 1: was cut by, I'm going to screw up this information,
34:23
Speaker 1: by George Ludwig, is that his name? The engineer who
34:27
Speaker 1: cut it super, super hot. And they didn't go with
34:30
Speaker 1: it because it was so hot. And if you hear
34:32
Speaker 1: it now, it just like has tons of bass and
34:35
Speaker 1: it's just a really incredible, propulsive recording. So if you
34:39
Speaker 1: find one of those, it's a really big deal. So
34:41
Speaker 1: I think the Zeppelin records aren't known to sound good.
34:44
Speaker 2: Oh, is this it here? I just quickly looked it up.
34:46
Speaker 2: Mastering engineer Robert Ludwig created the legendary hot mix or
34:50
Speaker 2: RL cut for Led Zeppelin II in 1969.
34:53
Speaker 1: That's it. That's the one. It never got released commercially.
34:56
Speaker 1: Maybe it's been reissued. I don't know. But that's a
35:00
Speaker 1: holy grail.
35:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, it features an explosive high energy dynamic range with
35:05
Speaker 2: deep bass and clear highs.
35:07
Speaker 1: Right.
35:08
Speaker 2: Wow.
35:08
Speaker 1: They didn't release that. I don't know. Maybe they thought
35:10
Speaker 1: systems couldn't track it at the time. I mean, I
35:13
Speaker 1: remember sitting in a friend's bedroom listening to Black Dog
35:18
Speaker 1: on his little hi-fi, and I thought that was pretty powerful,
35:21
Speaker 1: you know? Sure.
35:23
Speaker 2: But there is that enduring appeal of independent record stores.
35:26
Speaker 2: Even with online marketplaces, like you point out, Discogs, they
35:29
Speaker 2: offer virtually unlimited choices. What makes digging through records in
35:33
Speaker 2: a physical store an experience that the internet can't replace?
35:37
Speaker 2: We have something like that here in Connecticut, Red Scroll Records.
35:42
Speaker 2: It's a huge warehouse. You can spend a whole day there.
35:46
Speaker 1: Red Scroll?
35:47
Speaker 2: Red Scroll in Wallingford, Connecticut. I'm giving them a free plug.
35:52
Speaker 1: Oh, I've never heard of that. I know there's a
35:54
Speaker 1: store near one of the Great Lakes in New York
35:57
Speaker 1: called Bop Shop that I've never been to that apparently
36:00
Speaker 1: has great jazz records. But yeah, just like what I
36:02
Speaker 1: was saying, it's the thrill of finding a record you've
36:05
Speaker 1: never seen before, like I did with these records. I
36:07
Speaker 1: wish I would have pulled one from a villa. These bizarre...
36:11
Speaker 1: You know, their idea of album cover art was so crazy.
36:14
Speaker 1: One of them has like a giant sandwich on the
36:18
Speaker 1: cover and you can see all the ingredients. You know,
36:22
Speaker 1: the art directors had so much leeway. There was so
36:26
Speaker 1: much money in the record industry, which lasted right up
36:29
Speaker 1: through the 90s. Because when I was, before I really
36:32
Speaker 1: started writing my rock hi-fi, I wrote about rock music
36:35
Speaker 1: a lot. In the 90s, they would send journalists to
36:37
Speaker 1: the UK all the time to cover electronic music, and Britpop,
36:44
Speaker 1: and I remember getting off the plane and going straight
36:46
Speaker 1: to Virgin Megastore because they had all these CDs I
36:48
Speaker 1: couldn't get here. I never really went record shopping over there,
36:55
Speaker 1: but I'm getting off the point, but yeah, just the
36:58
Speaker 1: thrill of finding something you haven't seen before, and little
37:02
Speaker 1: record stores in the middle of nowhere are where you'll
37:04
Speaker 1: find those sort of records.
37:08
Speaker 2: There was a place in Waterbury, Connecticut. It's not there anymore.
37:11
Speaker 2: Brass City Records. You'd spend a whole day there. And
37:15
Speaker 2: it was just so cool. It was up on the
37:16
Speaker 2: second floor of this building right in the middle of Waterbury.
37:22
Speaker 2: And you'd go up there and there'd be some local
37:25
Speaker 2: artist jamming on his guitar in one of the back rooms.
37:28
Speaker 2: And you'd spend a whole day there. And the people
37:31
Speaker 2: that work at these places, they know their stuff so
37:34
Speaker 2: they can recommend things to you. So I was always
37:36
Speaker 2: looking for I mean, I was looking for Van Halen
37:38
Speaker 2: bootlegs all the time, and I found their show at
37:41
Speaker 2: the Pasadena Civic from 1976 there.
37:44
Speaker 1: On cassette or something?
37:45
Speaker 2: It was on vinyl.
37:46
Speaker 1: Really?
37:47
Speaker 2: Still have it. Still have it, yeah. Wow. It's still
37:51
Speaker 2: got the bite marks and the plastic from my cat.
37:53
Speaker 1: How's the sound quality?
37:56
Speaker 2: Oh, it's really good.
37:58
Speaker 1: In fact, now it's- Off the board or something?
38:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's off the board. And it was their last
38:03
Speaker 2: show at the Pasadena Civic, and they were they had
38:06
Speaker 2: just signed with Warner brothers.
38:08
Speaker 1: Wow.
38:09
Speaker 2: Those are those fines, you know, that, that that's it.
38:11
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the experience you don't get online. When
38:16
Speaker 2: you find something you're not expecting, you don't even know
38:18
Speaker 2: what you're going to find. You just head straight for
38:21
Speaker 2: certain letter in the alphabet and say, okay, let's see
38:24
Speaker 2: what's in there. It's just a great.
38:25
Speaker 1: And it's, it's the record stores who are to credit
38:28
Speaker 1: for all of this and record store day. And like
38:31
Speaker 1: I said, in New York, I can't keep up with
38:33
Speaker 1: all the stores. They, Each one has their own little niche.
38:37
Speaker 1: They're very creative. And they just keep going. I mean,
38:41
Speaker 1: I worked at the store on Saturday. I just worked
38:44
Speaker 1: on Saturday. I started there in 2011. I used to
38:47
Speaker 1: get there and just go to sleep, literally. Now we
38:50
Speaker 1: get customers of all different stripes, every age demographic.
38:54
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
38:54
Speaker 1: It's astonishing. All the different customers we get.
38:58
Speaker 2: And what about there's these dedicated vinyl listening rooms, which
39:01
Speaker 2: were inspired by... partly by Japan's listening cafes. Those are
39:06
Speaker 2: popping up around here in the States?
39:08
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, Japan, I went there the first time
39:12
Speaker 1: earlier in the year and there are these little jazz
39:14
Speaker 1: bars and people, they sit there and listen. They don't talk.
39:18
Speaker 1: I went with my friend, Jeremy Elkin, who lives there
39:20
Speaker 1: and we were talking and the owner came up and
39:22
Speaker 1: said to him in Japanese, be quiet, respect the music.
39:25
Speaker 1: And I mean, they're serious. I mean, in New York,
39:27
Speaker 1: nobody's going to shut up, but there is a club
39:29
Speaker 1: called Stylist where people pay just to listen. There's no talking.
39:35
Speaker 1: Devin Turnbull, the speaker designer, has a room in Soho
39:40
Speaker 1: where you go in and there's this beautiful system and
39:43
Speaker 1: people actually listen. You go there to listen. And he
39:47
Speaker 1: had a show at Lissan Gallery a few years ago.
39:49
Speaker 1: He's kind of a real shapeshifter in this world. And
39:51
Speaker 1: I was stunned to go in there and young people
39:54
Speaker 1: were listening and reading lighter notes and their phones were
39:58
Speaker 1: nowhere to be seen.
39:59
Speaker 2: Small Luxuries Vinyl out right now. Find it wherever books
40:03
Speaker 2: are sold and find it at your nearest bookstore. If
40:06
Speaker 2: you want to look for your nearest independent bookstore, speaking
40:09
Speaker 2: of a great experience, you go to an independent bookstore
40:13
Speaker 2: and ask for a copy there. If they don't have it,
40:15
Speaker 2: tell them to get one. BookedOnRock.com. You can find your
40:18
Speaker 2: nearest store there. And where can people find you online?
40:21
Speaker 2: You have a YouTube channel, which I was just checking out,
40:23
Speaker 2: which I love.
40:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, my YouTube channel is just Jazz Vinyl Audiophile. I
40:32
Speaker 1: run what used to be the biggest jazz collecting group
40:34
Speaker 1: on Facebook, Jazz Vinyl Lovers, but there's a lot of
40:36
Speaker 1: people doing it now. And I write for Stereophile Magazine. Cool, cool.
40:41
Speaker 2: The best place would be to go to your YouTube channel.
40:43
Speaker 2: People can contact you through there if they want to
40:45
Speaker 2: reach out.
40:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have an email on there, sure.
40:47
Speaker 2: Cool. Kevin Califf, thank you so much. Excellent book and
40:52
Speaker 2: looking forward to getting that physical copy in my hands.
40:54
Speaker 2: That's going to be, I'm going to impress my friends
40:57
Speaker 2: when they come over.
40:58
Speaker 1: Thank you, Eric. Thanks for the great interview. I appreciate it.
41:08
Speaker 2: That's it.
41:08
Speaker 1: It's in the books.