Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 202. Sally McRae, Ultra Runner

Transcript

202. Sally McRae, Ultra Runner · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: When we have to make hard decisions, whether it's in
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: your relationships, in your career, your interactions with the world
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: around you, when you are gone at the end of
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: your life, what is going to be the best part
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: of your story? What story do you want to tell?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily Body here, coming to you from the
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: AG studio.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: You are listening to episode two hundred and.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Two of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I connect
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: with everyone from your favorite athletes to top experts and
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: industry CEOs about their highest highs, toughest moments, and everything
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: in between. We all go through hurdles in life, and
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: my goal through these discussions is to empower you to
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: better navigate yours and move with intention so that you
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: can stride towards your own big potential.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: And of course have some fun along the way.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Today's conversation with Sally McRae is honestly, I'm trying to
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: find the words.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: It's inspiring.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: It is really heartfelt and vulnerable, and I could have
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: spent goodness like, the better part of three hours talking
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: to Sally. This conversation is about one hour, but even
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: at the end of it, I just was sitting there
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: in amazement. Thinking that there were so many more topics
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: that we could have touched on. We don't even get
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: into the why behind her nickname the Yellow Runner, which
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: is actually because growing up, her nickname was Sunshine, So,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: as you can imagine, hence comes Yellow Runner.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: I digress.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Sally and I talk about so much in episode two two.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: We talk about her upbringing and the difficulties that she
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: faced living in a household with abuse from her father,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: both emotional and physical. She talks about the love she
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: had for her mother and how difficult it was to
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: lose her to cancer, and also, you know, the massive
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: impactful role that her mother had on her life, so
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: much grace, so much wisdom that Sally undoubtedly carries with
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: her through her every single day. Sally talks about how
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: her relationship with God helped her to forgive her father
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: and move forward, and what that looked like for their relationship,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: and we do have a really special discussion about boundaries
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: and about how at times the quote unquote right thing
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: for you may not be totally understood by the people
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: around you. She also talks to me about getting into
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: ultra running and how the sport has completely transformed her
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: life and about her proudest accomplishments, which although she has
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: done some gnarly stuff in her career as an athlete,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: one of them is being able to succeed in her
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: sport as a mother of two. We talk about goal setting,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: we talk about what excites Sally right now. We talk
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: about so much goodness in this episode, and I am
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: just elated that Sally found the time for hurdle and
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: that she is standing on her own two feet, proud
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: of the woman that she's become, and sharing her beautiful
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: story and self with the world. You know, I stumbled
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: upon one of those posts on Facebook where it shows
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: you what you were doing thirteen years ago, and thirteen
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: years ago I was sharing with my followers at the
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: time that I landed in internship at Fitness Magazine. And
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: when I think about that young Emily two thousand and nine, Emily,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: she would be so damn proud of what I am
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: doing in my career right now and probably wouldn't even
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: believe the unbelievable people that I've had the opportunity to
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: interview and talk to and this career path, and so lately,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I'm personally just feeling a whole lot of gratitude for Hurdle,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: for all of you hurdlers for empowering me to literally
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: live out my dreams of connecting through community and having
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: important discussions and really making my passions for wellness and
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: fitness and conversation into a career. It's truly, it's truly,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: really special. Make sure you're following along over with Hurdle
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: on Socialists at Hurdle Podcast. I am over at Emily
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: a Body and with that, I'm gonna get to it
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: Let's get to hurdling today.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I am sitting down with Sally mcray. She is an
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: ultrarunner also host of the Choo Strong podcast.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: Sally, how you doing?
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: I'm doing great?
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: Really, what's going on?
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: Well?
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: You know, I just got back from a run and
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I'm having a little bit of watering coffee right now
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: and was so excited to talk to you. I just
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I want to say thank you for inviting me on
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: in the first place. I love I love doing this,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I love talking.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you for giving me your time and absolute Now, Brainer,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: not only are you such an accomplished athlete, but I
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: could listen to you talk forever.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: That's a huge compliment coming from you because You're amazing
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: at what you do.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: So I really appreciate that.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: I really, again, I do, I really appreciate your time. Well,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: stop just like telling everyone how much we love each other. Now,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: you know, people like, get on with it. People are like, okay,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: we get it. You guys like each other. I will
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: say this. You know, I have listened to you on
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: a fair share of other podcasts now, and we'll get
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: into your backstory and you know kind of the building
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: blocks of the question that I'm about to ask here.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: But you have spoken so openly about the difficulties that
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: you have been through in your life and the pain.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: That you have experienced.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: But what I find so interesting about it is how
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: humble you are in expressing your journey. But more specifically,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: and this is what I'd love to unpack a little bit.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: You talking about how, yes, you know pain, but that
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: you continually meet and see individuals that are going through
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: things that in your lens, which is quote unquote even
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: more difficult than the things that you have been through.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: And I think that sometimes that can be a little
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: bit dangerous is a big word, but a little bit dangerous.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: When we get to this place where we're comparing like
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I went through something hard, but they are also going
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: through something hard, Like, wouldn't you say that everyone is
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: almost entitled to their struggle?
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely. You know.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: I love that you asked this question because I gave
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: a talk back in Texas in November and it was
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: this event was made up of high level athletes, entrepreneurs, businessmen.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: It was like a yeah, kind of like an encouraging weekend,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: and so I shared my story in somebody in the
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: audience actually raised their hand and they were like, Dude,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: I mentor people I coach people like life coaching and stuff.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: He's like, I personally really struggle when somebody is complaining
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: about something so small and they see it as like
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: such a big pain and such a big challenge or
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: in their life, and he's like, how do you tolerate that?
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: He's like, I listen to your story and he's like,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: mine is you know, I didn't go I didn't have
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: the path that you did. And he's like, but then
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: there's other people that you know are stagnant in that
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: complain so much about something so small, like how do
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: you talk to all people?
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: And that way?
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: And so you know, I think that I really believe
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: that our journeys and our stories are so specific to us.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: They are all valuable, they are all precious, but many
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: times what helps us get through some of the most
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: challenging things in our life is understanding that it's a
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: part of all of our lives. And it is sad
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: when when you meet people that since the time you
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: know they were born, they grew up in a house
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: of pain, or that they were forgotten or abandoned or
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: orphaned or you know, and have had to work their
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: way through understanding that there is good in life and
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: that there is good things for them and that the
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: best is yet to come. It's really difficult to encourage people.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: That live every day in pain.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, you meet people
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: that maybe their lives started out great, like grew up
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: in a great family, like they kind of had, you know,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: lots of opportunities and weren't really at one, and then
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden in their forties they're hit with
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: catashe and tragedy, and so I I the messaging I
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: like to give it is like that is always talking
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: about the journey. And when I say you don't know
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: what's around the corner, you don't know what's ahead. It's
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: there's two sides of that, Like you could be at
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: a point in your life you are just flying high.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: It's amazing, like sky's the limit, Like you're reaching all
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: your goals you have, you got money, you got a
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: great family, but you don't know what's ahead. But so
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: when you keep that in mind, it makes you appreciate
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: life and be more gracious and compassionate to other people
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: because at any moment, your life can change, and it
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: can be it can change for good or it can
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: change for bad. But the goal is to keep on going.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: So I don't like to use it. As you know,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I actually wrote a post about this a while back.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I said, the ultra running is not pain and suffering.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: You know, we hear this so much that people talk
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: about running hundred miles, so like, oh, it's so much suffering,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: so much pain. And I'm like, that's a gift that
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you get to do that, Like you signed up for that.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: You paid hundreds of dollars to get to that start line,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: for the opportunity to push yourself and see what you
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: are made of, for an opportunity to have people come
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: around you. You have crew that are like following you
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: around for twenty four thirty hours just to support you
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to get the finish line. That's a massive gift. That
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: is not pain and suffering. Yeah, you're gonna have some
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: physical ache, some physical challenges. You're gonna be thrown up,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: having diarrhea, all the things, getting dizzy out there. I've
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: experienced that all. But if you do not take what
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: you learn on the trail, if you don't take what
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: you learn in your sport and apply it to real life,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: then you've lost You've lost out on so much. And
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: we see that a lot, I think, not just in running,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: but in all sport. Like we can be so tough
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: and so gritty in sport, but if we can't be
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: tough to endure with people, if we can't be tough
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: to support other people in our real life, we've wasted
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the gift that we've been given.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Wow, the power of first ave too long, didn't listen. Basically,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: what Sally's trying to tell you is that perspective, perspective
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: is everything. And I mean you mentioned in that all
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: different types of people coming from you know, really great
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: upbringings to maybe not so great upbringings, and I know
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: from following along with your story that you certainly had
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: a fair share of hurdles within yours, So why don't
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: you shed a little bit of light on that for
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: those that may be unfamiliar.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I you know, I'm writing a memoir that
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping to come out in the next few months.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: And I grew up in a family of seven in
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: we lived in southern California, I'd say that. And I
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: always try to be really careful about how I talk
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: about what I have and I didn't have, because starting
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: at seventeen, I started traveling the world and I realized, oh,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I've always had a lot more than most than most people.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: But I started working pretty young. I started going to
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: work with my dad when I was seven. I had
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: two jobs by the time I was fifteen, and I've
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: never not had two jobs. So I've always always worked,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: you know. There, I just we never had dental insurance,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: we never had medical insurance. You know, I always had
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: holes in my shoes, and we had, you know, we
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: got government lunch. Grown up at school, we kind of
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: were from the other side of town, so you know,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: where I lived, the lower income side of town was
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: also it was very much more multicultural, so I grew
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: up speaking Spanish. Most of my friends spoke Spanish, which
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: has served me very well today. But I think that
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: in all of that struggle with five kids, but my
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: parents were always struggling with money. There was a lot
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: of stress in our home too. So my personality was
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: pretty different from my siblings, and I was a little
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: bit more outgoing, outspoken. I was a really happy, naturally
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: happy kid. But my dad for whatever reason, was extremely
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: displeased with me, just didn't like me. And I know
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to understand, especially for anyone that's
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: a parent that's listening, but there was nothing that I
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: could do to please him.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: And so because I kind of.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Grew up as a overachiever, constantly being a people pleaser,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to be perfect and everything I did,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: you name the award, I had it. Whether it was
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: a physical education award or an academic award, I had
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: it all. And so also because of that, I was
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: really close to my mom. And then my mom got
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: really sick when we were fourteen. Like I said, we
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: didn't have healthcare, and so when we finally qualified for
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: the government Medicare, we discovered that she had already terminal cancer,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: and when I was seventeen, we watched her pass away
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: in our living room, and my struggle for the really
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: the turning point in my life was the twelve months
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: from the time that she passed away until I was
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: like like eighteen and a half. I guess like eighteen months,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: but so much in my life changed that I went
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: through seasons where I didn't really believe that there was
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: good or hope or anything left for me. I had
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: grown up wanting to be a professional soccer player, and
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I kind of threw all that down the toilet. My
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: dad went to jail, my sisters were taken away and
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: putting foster care. You know, I just I was pretty
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: miserable from the inside. But I'd say that most people
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: didn't know that on the outside because I was still
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: trying to hide a lot of what I was going through.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: So I think that when I became adult and a
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: parent myself, I had to work through so many different
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: traumas that I never had gotten help with. I mean,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: my mom died in my living room, but I don't
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: even remember like hugging anyone after she passed away. I
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: never went to therapy or counseling. I mean, I like
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: went back to work. I went back to my two
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: jobs and playing soccer and really and then it was
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: like months. A few weeks later, my dad was diagnosed
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: with the brain tumor. My grandpa died, my sisters were
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: taken out of the home. So I think I grew
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: up really fast, and every step of the way was
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: me all always trying to find a way to move forward.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: It was constantly wondering if things were going to get better,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: and they didn't get better for you know, that year
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: and a half. So I'll pause there because there's a
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: lot inside that, and I could probably keep talking totally totally.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, thank you so much for sharing all that,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: talking about the anger that you felt. There's some value
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: in that and how you were able to let go
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: of some of that. We haven't necessarily touched on this yet.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: You mentioned feeling as though you were never enough for
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: your father. Your father also was emotionally and physically abusive.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: So how do you get to a point where you
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: let go of some of that anger so that you
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: can move forward after your mom's passing.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I grew up, as ironic as it sounds,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I did grow up in the church.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: You know I love Jesus with all my heart.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: That's got has really been the thing that has gotten
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: me through every season in my life.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: And my mom.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Had a very strong faith, like even in our final days,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: that was all that she clung to. And I, as
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: a very impressionable teenager, that impacted me so greatly. I
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: couldn't believe that someone who was in such torture as pain.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: She was in a lot of pain at the end
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: of her life because this cancer spread all over her body,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: but she spoke with so much peace and was so
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: sure of her faith and was so sure that there
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: would be hope for She would say that there's a
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: verse in the Bible that says, you know, I know
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the thoughts I think towards you, thoughts are good and
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: And she would say that to me all the time,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: and it was very ironic because like when things got
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: worse and worse and worse, I just remember thinking that
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: I was like, there's no future and a hope for me,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Like there is no future to hope.
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: And when my.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Dad had surgery just six weeks or a couple months
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: after my mom died, and his brain humor was so
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: rare that from one ear to the next, they cut
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: his head open and they inserted these giant bolts into
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: his head, but the bolts had to stay exposed, and
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: so no one else was there to pick him up
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: from the hospital except me, and I just turned eighteen,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: and I remember thinking in my mind like as I
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: drove to the hospital, and I still to this day
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: have a hard time going to hospitals. I went to
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: hospitals a lot growing up as a kid. I just
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: get a lot of anxiety and a lot of stress.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: But I remember pulling into the parking spot and just
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: punching my steering while I was so angry, and I'm
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: just screaming at God, saying, you took the wrong one,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: like you took the most loving, encouraging mom who encouraged
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: me in all my dreams. She was always there for me.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: She spoke kindness and loved me my whole life. And
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: you know, she couldn't do a great job protecting me
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: from my dad because he was oppressive towards her too.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: But man, I had a lot of hate for my dad.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: And I remember sitting in the car and praying, I
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: have to go and pick him up in the recovery
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: room right now. I have no idea what he's going
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: to look like. I don't want to take care of him.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: But I knew having grown up reading the Bible, I
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: knew that anger and bitterness what it does inside of you.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: It spills out into every relationship and every part of
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: your life and who you are, Like, you can't compartmentalize that.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Like if you're an angry person because somebody hurt you,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: you're going to be angry towards those that you even love.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: And this is you know, textbook psychology, and you know
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: whatnot Like people who have been hurt, they're going to
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: respond in anger, and they're going to respond by pushing
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: people away. And at the core of who I was like,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to be that person. So I sat
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: there and I just prayed, and I said, God, I
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: can't love him without you. You have to help me
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: forgive him because I can't do it by myself. And
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I distinctly remember walking into the hospital when I was
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: directed to go through this room and there was a
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: little window, you know, a little peaky window into the
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: room first, and I get it was like I'm underwater.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Things that were moving so slowly at this point because
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I could not believe what I saw. But it was
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: the back of my dad in a wheelchair, and he
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: slumped over to the side, his hands hanging off, and
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: the kind of brain treman he had, his acromegaly, so
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: his body it's like giganticism, so his whole body like
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: was huge, and there's blood just pouring out of this
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: bandage that supposed to be covering these bolts in his head,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: and it's the back of the minute. It was like I,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: for a split second, got this picture of great need,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: and I realized in that moment, never had my dad
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: ever felt like he needed me or wanted me.
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: Or even wanted me around.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: And I realized that as humans, because I grew up
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: really fast, so I was I was around adults a lot.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: But I realized, as humans, we all have great need,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: and we all have the ability to hurt people deeply.
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: We all do whether we mean to or not.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: My dad was very intentional in it, and I looked
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: at him and I thought, he he needs me.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: God helped me to love.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Him, help me to forgive him, because if I don't
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: release how much I hate him, I'm gonna end up
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: just like him, this broken man. And that's what I'm thinking,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: This man is so broken who used to hurt me
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: so bad and he used to oppress me, and now
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: he needs me, and I don't want to be in
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: that same position. So yeah, taking him home, and you
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: know the I remember the nurse tell me you can't
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: let his.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: Head heel up over the bolts.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: You got to pull the skin away, you know, she
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: tell me all this stuff and like this is how
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: you give shots.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh my god.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I'm just like terrified of blood and needles. And but
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: you know that at one point, it's just realizing like
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: you either are gonna run away or you're just gonna
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: get right in it, no matter how uncomfortable it is,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: you have to face it if you're gonna get through it.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: So I'll positive too, just like keeping the cadence of
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: this podcast for me. Two things to ask here, First,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: a comment. I guess The first thing is that beautiful
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: lesson that you profoundly knew so early on, which is
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: that forgiveness isn't for the other person. Forgiveness happens and
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: needs to happen for the person that is feeling so
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: many of the feelings that you experience, that anger, that frustration,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: that deep sadness, knowing that if you don't forgive, if
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: you don't allow yourself the space to move forward, then
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: you are the only one that is suffering as this
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: other person who at some point or another has inflicted
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: such sort of a pain upon you, all by intentionally
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: or not intentionally, or.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: What have you.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: If you don't let go of this, then they're just
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: living their life and you're the one that's struggling with
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: all of these frustration. So what a beautiful lesson that
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: you learned so early on the importance of forgiveness. This
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: begs the question, did you ever feel as though he
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: appreciated your forgiveness or your sacrifice for his condition?
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, and I should be very straightforward. I
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: don't have a relationship with him at all. You know,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: forgiveness is a journey too, you know. That was the beginning,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: and I talked about this in my book How That Is.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: That was the first time that I acknowledged that I
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: needed to forgive him because I knew he would never
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: be sorry. My dad is never admitted to anything that
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: he has done.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: He was never in the wrong.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: He made it very clear that I always deserved everything
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: I got. He made it clear that I was a spoiled,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: rotten brat who's never worked a day in my life,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: that I've never known what it feels like to hurt,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: to suffer, to have challenged my life. He was extremely
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: emotionally damaging pretty much my whole life. But because of
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: my faith, I had a very strong conviction that, well,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: he's my dad. I need to do everything I can
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: to fix this, because I believe that you forgive people
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: until the day that you die, no matter the offense.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: And that's extremely difficult, I think for most of us
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: to swallow and to comprehend, because we tend to rate things.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: We tend to say, well, this isn't that bad, and
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: this is worse. But the fact that I mean, we
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: even see it in the news all the time for
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: parents to forgive a rapist or a murder. You see
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: it in courtrooms all the time. Like you said, they're
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: doing it so they can keep living, so they can
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: move on, because you cannot change what has been done,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: but you can heal, and you will heal with scars
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: that will remind you from where you came from. But
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: those scars are powerful. They're not meant to remind you
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: of what a terrible week, you know, no good, nothing are.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: They remind you that you're strong. They remind you that
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: you can heal. And I knew that. I wanted that,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: like maybe we could heal these scars. Like we can't undo,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: like I can't undo the way he beat me, and
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I can't undo the way he would humiliate me and
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: hurt me with his words. But but there's also forward.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: If we wake up each day, there's a new opportunity
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: and a new chance. And you know, I actually speak
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: about this all the time. I always some every now
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: and then I'll say when I posted on Instagram, like
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: everyone thinks I'm talking about running, I'm never talking about running.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: It is always about life.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: It is one hundred percent I'm talking about life because
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: running is just the fun part. That's a gift and
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the opportunity. That's where I find my voice to send
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: a message. But it's I'm always referring to life and
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: that a lot of times when I talk about forgiveness
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: and failure and moving forward, a lot of it is
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: from my interaction with my dad. But when I was
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: pregnant with my son, my daughter was one years old,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: and I kind of had like this last final tempt
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: where I was like trying to make amends with him,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and we had conversations on the phone for a couple
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: of days straight. I had my husband sit in the
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: living room with me, and I said, if if I
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: am being unfair, if I in any way am being
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: you know, if I'm just like blasting him and being
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: mean and I'm not listening, like call me out as
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I talked to him, because I want to do this right.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Because what had happened over the course of like from
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: that time until now I'm married with kids, was anytime
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: I was around him, I would get like extreme anxiety
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: and stress, and I would come home whenever I'd see
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: him and I wouldn't be able to eat for a
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: couple of days. Like it was literally like starting to
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: corrode my family. It was starting to corrode my relationship
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: with my husband and my kids. Like I was really suffering.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: And I knew. I knew personally because I just had
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: done some of it's research and after going to college
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I was a communication studies major.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: I knew that.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: If there is a extremely toxic person in your life,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: that is literally changing the soul of who you are.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: You know, you are a fearful and you're afraid and
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: you can't even function normally, that that person should probably
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: not be a part of your life. But I had
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: a hard time with that because I was like, no,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: I have to endure like I'm enduring, like I persevere
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: with people. I forgive like I'm going to keep going.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: But at this point I realized you can forgive and
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: still love somebody and let go all at once, and
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: there is power in that, and sometimes that is what
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: needs to happen. And I know there's many people listening,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: because anytime I speak on this, I get hundreds of
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: messages from people like I am having a hard time forgiving.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: And there's two ways that go. There is where there's
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: reconciliation on both sides and you're both working to heal
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: and move forward. But then there is still like there's
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: one that wants to heal and the other one that
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: is refusing to see you, is re using to acknowledge
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: your pain and you're hurt and to move forward with
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: you and to see you as your own individual. And
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: you know, and if it is causing you that deep
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: you know, stress and anxiety and hurt all the time,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: you can still love that person and forgive them from afar.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: And that is what happened.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: In those two days of conversations. What I realized was
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: that my dad just he did not see me. He
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: didn't and he literally said on the phone. And this
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: is after I at this point had had fifteen jobs
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: in my life, I'm pregnant with my second child. And
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: he says to me, you don't know what it's like
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: to have pain in your life. You don't know what
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: it is to work a hard day, not one single
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: day you don't need. He's like, one day, when you're
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: a parent, you'll understand, like, you don't see me. And
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I think for all humans, that is what we want.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: We want to be seen. We want to be known.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: We want to know that we matter. We want to
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: know that our pain like that it's valid, no matter
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: how big or small. It is like if you are
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: hurt like that, that there's something there in there that
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: needs to be unpacked. So, sadly, I do not have
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: relationship with my dad. You know, my mom's been gone,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: but my husband's family is great.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: So what you're explaining here is something that is a
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: lesson that takes so long to really execute on, and
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: that is the lesson of having boundaries. So I think
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: that's someone listening to this who really hears you and
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: probably can think right now exactly of who that person
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: is in their life that maybe reminds them of the
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: difficulties that you had in your relationship with your father.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: For that person, what advice do you have for them
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: about letting go?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really hard.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: There's a few things I want to say, and my
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: heart is just like beaten so hard because I do
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: empathize so deeply with people in this area, because there
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: is this struggle and even the shame that other people
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: will put on you spe like unfortunately, like especially my
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: friends that have come from like amazing homes, they do
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: not get it on any level. Like they're like best
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: friends with dad, like mom, and I'm like, dude, I
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: never knew that, Like even when my daughter was born,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Like I remember the first couple of years, like just
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: watching Eddie interact with Mackenzie, Like I would just go
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: in my room and I cry, I like sob because
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: like just the way he looked at her was so
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: foreign to me, And I was like oh, Like that's
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that's how daddy's and daughters like interact when they love
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: each other. Like that's amazing, Like I never knew that,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and even now, like she's going to be sixteen next week,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: she's I mean, she truly is the light of his
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: life and and she adores him and still it sits
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: on his lap and just all those things, and I'm
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: like I didn't have that. So I just first want
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: to say that, yes, it does take time to create
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: boundaries and let go of something that you wanted so
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: long to fix, that you wanted so long to be different.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: And I think that was the most difficult thing for me.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: It was like I just want him to love me,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: like he's my dad, Like why doesn't he love me?
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Like what am I doing wrong? Like I don't know
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: what else I can do in my power. And then
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: it's understanding like it's not your job to control people.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: It is not your job to make their choices, and
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: you have to be okay that the greatest love is love,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: that it's free love that is free. It chooses to
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: love you unconditionally no matter what. It chooses to be
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: kind and enduring and persevering no matter what season, you're in.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: That's the greatest kind of love, and that's what you
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: want in your life because that is ultimately what gets
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: you to the best version of yourself. And forgiveness is power.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Forgiveness is freedom, and you have the freedom to let
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: go and to forgive and continue on. And there is
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: nothing greater that you can do in your life to
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: then continue and surround yourself with people that are loving.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: But it is okay to continue in life with an ache.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: And I've spoken about this before that sometimes we believe
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: that the healing and the moving forward means that we
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: don't feel it anymore. No, I still have moments where
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh man, it just sucks, like having never
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: had that dad, or especially writing my book, I've had
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: some really horrible weeks. I've had to apologize to my family.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm sorry, I've been so grumpy. I had
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: to write like some really horrible stories, you know, in
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: this book. And when you remember things, or or you
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: smell something, or you see a street corner that reminds
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: you of something, and there's just ache that comes with that.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: It's okay. You're human, and humans, you're you're gonna feel,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: you know, and and if anything that makes you know
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: that you're still alive and that you care, you have
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: the capacity to care. But take what all that caring
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: and those feelings and transfer it on to what is
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: good in your life because you can. You can't change
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: what happened, but you can change your story moving forward,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: and you can make it great. And you can use
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: that pain or whatever that person did you that hurt
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: you so badly, and you can help other people. I
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: mean genuinely be there on a level that most people
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: don't understand.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: to my friends at Gooder. Can I tell you we
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: hosted the Hurdler Huddle out in Los Angeles at the
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Gooder Cabana Space on Abbot Kinney and it was a vibe.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I cannot get enough of my Gooder sunglasses. They are affordable,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: they're stylish, and they're good for all performance, no bounce polarize,
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  Speaker 2: sprinting to catch the subway, running to brunch.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: You get the gist. Plus, they have so.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Many different styles, I mean I can't even count them.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: There's a zillion of them on their website for every
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: single taste. They've got bright colors, they've got more classic looks.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: I myself am a huge.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Fan of two of their newer styles, the pH g's
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: and the vrgs.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: I love these these nicknames here.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: The phgs specifically really looks super sleek. I get compliments
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: on these glasses, which I just wear like wanting to
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: get coffee in the morning, all the time, endlessly from
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: people waiting in line with me. They have them in
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: so many different colors, again, something for every different taste,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: and I think it's about time that you get in
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: on the Gooder train if you haven't done so just yet.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Of course, they are already super affordable starting at just
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: twenty five dollars, but because you are a hurdler, I
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: have an additional discount for you. Head on over to
• 33:38
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• 33:42
  Speaker 2: slash hurdle and get fifteen percent off using hurdle one
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• 33:47
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• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Use hurdle one five at checkout to get fifteen percent
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: off your Gooder sunglasses today, And you can step out
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: of that moment, right. It's like when we're so present
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: in the pain, and we're so thick in the hurt,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: it's hard to imagine what life could feel like without
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: that hurt because it's almost become familiar. And it's also
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: hard to acknowledge that there can be so much joy
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: on the other side of getting uncomfortable and setting the
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: boundary and getting out of your own way. But getting
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: to that place where you're like, I need to take
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: this step for myself. It can feel selfish, It can
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: certainly feel daunting. It's so intimidating again because of the unknown, right,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: but when you recognize that there can be joy in
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: the unknown, like there can be so much happiness that
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: you're not dealing with in this moment because you're so
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: stuck right that happiness is that's that's what's up.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: And I think that you bring up, you know, a
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: good point, just even the unknown and realizing that so
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: much of everything that we do in life it comes
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: down to our mental game. We can parallel that with sports,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: but it's how you approach it. And if you know
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: who you are and you believe that your life is
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: valuable despite even if the whole world says it's not,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: you have to believe that it is. If you're here,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: there's a purpose for it, and so I think moving
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: forward when you hit those storms, it's just courage. And
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: courage isn't being the most badass, toughest person on the
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: start line. Isn't being someone that, Okay, I can endure
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: pain because I don't feel it. No, it isn't about
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: being so numb that you don't feel anything. It's being
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: courageous enough to feel all of it and know that
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: what you're walking into is still going to be uncomfortable,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: it's still going to hurt, but yet you're choosing to
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: go because you understand that getting on to the other
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: side is so important and it is going to be better.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: And that isn't always the that's the hardest route, you know,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: And this is floating around in social media all the
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: time where it's like you just need to toughen up
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: and you know you need to just push through it
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: and don't think about it, and you know, push away
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: anyone that's going to hamper you or put you down.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: But it's like, no, sometimes getting through stuff is literally
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: being shoulder to shoulder around people and things that are uncomfortable,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: but staying true to who you are and still moving forward.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Courageously. It's the opportunity to become calloused.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Knowing that even the thickest, most well developed callouses still
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: rip when put under an up stress like you have
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to build that up. But also you need
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: to have the self awareness to remember that you're still human.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: So it's not like once you go through something, then
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: if you go through something that's similar to that, again,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: it won't hurt. But what that does mean is that
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: now you have some of the know how and the
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: tools to understand how to get over that next hurdle
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: moment as it comes. You know, there's so much relatability
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: in your story and your struggle, and again, I'm so
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: grateful for you for sharing that. Another huge relatable point
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: when it comes to you, Sally, is that you started
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: to thrive in your athletic pursuits when your kids, you know,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: we're four or five, six seven, and so for you
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: talk to us a little bit about what that's been
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: like for you finding sport and finding your stride in
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: sport in your thirties.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: That was challenging.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm not gonna lie, and I'll say this specifically.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: To moms and young moms. You're not.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: You're not going to be the popular mom when you
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: are not joining the mommy circles.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: And I didn't.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I think I had to make a choice when my
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: kids were young. I was going to pursue a dream
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: that I'd had since I was a little girl, to
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: become a professional athlete, and I was going I also
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: wanted to be a good mom. I was so close
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: to my mom. I loved being a mom, So I
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: literally flipped my whole life upside down and created a
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: life that allowed me to be there for my kids
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: while pursuing a dream. So that was really difficult, I'd
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: say it was. I had a lot of It was
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: lonely at times too, And you know, and back then,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I feel like even just ten years ago, women weren't
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: so supported in sport. So I think when people even
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: understood what I was doing, they're like, you're weird, or
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: that's crazy, or like no, seriously, like that psycho, and
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you know, and women were very blunt saying, how can
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: you be a good mom and then still take care
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: of your kids and your house and pursue these things.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't see your kids are being neglected,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: And so I had to deal with both outside criticism
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: from actually people that were my friends, not just strangers,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: and people on social media. It was like people that
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I thought that you know, that I got along with
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: and still move forward in what I knew to be
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: true of my journey. I really believe that all of us,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: every single person that is put on this planet, is
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: given a gift and a light, and it isn't necessarily
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: supposed to be used just to parade ourselves. It's not
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: about our glory. It's supposed to be used to impact
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: the world around us and to reach people and to
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: courage and love, like we're given things to love on people.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: I think that's a great way to view life. If
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: you don't feel like you have purpose in your life,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: then just go and start loving people and your life
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: will be greatly fulfilled. So I knew that as an athlete,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: that was where my voice was loudest in both in
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: writing and sport, and I had never deterred from those
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: two things from the time I was in kindergarten, and
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: I always told my mom that I would write a
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: book one day and that I would be a professional athlete.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: And so when she died, it was like this hiatus
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: you know, it's many years of not doing either, but
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: I'd never ever stopped training. So I loved getting in
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: the gym, I loved going out on runs, and I
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: just eventually found a way to do that with babies.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: And so I would look at training plans that I
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: would download off the internet, and I thought, Okay, this
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: says I have to do an eight mile track workout
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: on Tuesday, and then on Wednesday, I need to do
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: like a seventy five minute run. And then when you know,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: you download these generic things and you try to follow them,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, like I cannot do this, Like this
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: is not going to work.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: So I just started writing my own plans.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: And what I realized was like, Okay, I can run
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: for thirty minutes in the morning with the kids in
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: the jogging store, because that's about how long they can
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: last in there. And then I have like forty five
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: minutes when they're both down for a nap, I can
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: get on the treadmill. And then in the evening, right
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: before dinner at it comes home from work and I
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: get like an, okay, I can probably get something in.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: At that time.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: So every day I was piecing together when I could
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: get a workout in and sometimes it would take me
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: three workouts to do eight miles, but I did it,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: and I just believed that regardless of what it looks like,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: if you show up every single day and you put
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: the work in, it's it's going to make a difference.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: And so I did that for a few years, and
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: then I ran my first Ultra in twenty ten. My
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: kids were two and four when I did that, and
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: then it was a few more years of racing, and
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: then in twenty fourteen is when I was signed by Nike.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Casual, Like I'm just going to start in twenty ten,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: and then like by twenty fourteen, I'm just pro.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: I do remember when it first happened, a lot of
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: moms had messaged me. They're like, oh my gosh, it's amazing,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Like I run with my son in the jogging stroller
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: all the time, like you know, you've inspired me to
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: do this, And I remember thinking my mind, it's like
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I literally started training when I was sixteen, Like I
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: never did from that, Like I I started doing two
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: a days at sixteen, and I never stopped, like even
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: when I had kids and I didn't have this goal
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: of Ultra marathoning I knew I was supposed to be
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: an athlete, and I didn't really know how to do
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: life any other way, and so I was always very fit.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't like I did this couch to ultra
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: couch to pro over the course of three years. I
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: mean at this time, it took me sixteen years to
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: realize that dream. So it was sixteen years in the making.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: And so I never want to downplay the work, like
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: you have to put that work in. And I even
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: think sometimes when even now when we see young you know,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: kids that are up and coming and they you know,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: they they turned pro or whatever, you have to remember
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: there there was a massive support team and a lot
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: of years of building up that you know, that college kid.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: It wasn't just they had a couple of good years
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: in college and that's it. It's and it could even
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: be that they were cross training in different sports. But
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: when you set your mind on a goal, you have
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: to be prepared to put in the work for many years.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: And I was raised to work very hard.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: So beyond the criticism that you said that you experienced
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: from the mom community, you also have received some criticism
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: over the years when it comes to individuals feeling as
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: though they get to comment on your body. I know
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: you recorded a few episodes about this and talking about
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: body on Too Strong, but I'd love to talk a
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: little bit about that with you. I loved a post
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: that you put up on Instagram. It said body want
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: to run a race, then do it. Leave your appearance
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: out of it. Want to learn ballet, then do it.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Stop wondering if you look like a dancer. Want to swim,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: then do it. There's no right or wrong way to
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: look in your bathing suit. Let's talk about what you
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: do with your body instead of how it looks. Give
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: me some insight about your journey to body acceptance.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I starting at a really young age. I was
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: really aware of my body. Like by the time I
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: was probably five or six, my siblings would tease me,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: which siblings do. And you get teased on the schoolyard,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: you know, for whatever it is you're wearing, your hair
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: or whatever it's And this is an important note because
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: we must understand that that is just a part of
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: human interaction. Like we have eyes for a reason. We
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: notice a beautiful sunset, beautiful flower, the dress in the window.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Like we're constantly saying that things are cute or ugly
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: or you know, pleasing to the eye or glorious or whatever.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: That's it's a conversation starter. What pulls us in, it's
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: what repels us. So when I was little, you know,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: my siblings made fun of me that I was fat.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: So I had this. I definitely had like a little belly.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: I was like, I was very short when as a kid,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: like I was really small, and I was just like
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: chunky and to full on like baby fat. So I
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: was really concerned about that because they would draw pictures
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: of me with you know, as a fat kid, and
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: they'd put them on my bed and I would cry,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: and so I started doing like push ups and sit
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: ups in my room. I don't think that lasted very long,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: but that's probably like the first time that I was like, oh,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: like I'm you know, I'm fat. But then by the
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: time I was i'd say like nine or ten, like
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: I was just then really petite, like I lost all
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: my baby fat, was really lean, and then up until
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I was sixteen, I was always really small like I was.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: I was actually criticized in soccer for being too small,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: and girls would come up to me and say, you
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: could never be a professional soccer player. You're too small,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: you're not strong enough, you can't push girls off the ball.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: So I love to speak on both sides because I
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: think that it's important that people understand it isn't about
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: that being really thin or even being really strong, because
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: I know that's kind of a trend now too, is
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: like the muscles and the weightlifting and stuff like there's
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: some we all build muscle in different ways, like our
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: body types are all different. And for me, I thought
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: I was gonna be petite for the rest of my life.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: And then at sixteen is when I actually grew, and
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: then I became and now I do build muscle a
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: little bit easier, like always had even in high school.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: So so then things change. And then as I got bigger,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: even in college, people made note of that and talked
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: a lot about my lower body. I'd say, since the
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: time I was in middle school, people have always made
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: comments about my button, my legs. I didn't it wasn't
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: always a negative thing to me, Like I think that
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: the way that I understood it was just like, oh,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: I guess it's a good thing, because like the guys
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: are saying, it's like a good thing. You know, like
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: you don't know how to. Like as a twelve thirteen
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: year old, you're like, oh, like I'm getting attention from
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: guys like I guess my legs are great, you know.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: But then in high school you're like, oh, my gosh,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: like this is it looks like the trend is to
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: be really thin and to be in like these like
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: these nice tight genes that I can't fit into unless
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: they're super stretchy.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: So I think.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Growing up, I always went back and forth, But the
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: thing that remained true was that it didn't matter if
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: I was at work, at school, on the soccer field,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: it was about ninety percent of the time someone's going
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: to come up to me and say something about my body.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: So I'll tell you what.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: When Nike reached out to me to sign me, I
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: was extremely insecure about it and I didn't believe that
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: it was actually them. So I sent the email to
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: my buddies, my training buddies, Billy, Dave and Colin, and
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: I asked them. I was like, dude, do you guys
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: think this is like a legit email? They're like yeah,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: I respond, and my immediate thought was like, man, I
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: just don't think I want to be with a company
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: that is so big, like there's big, they're flashy, like
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: everyone knows them, and I'm just picturing the ridicule that
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get when I'm signed, because one, I
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: do not look like a typical endurance pro athlete, like
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: at all. I look like I should be, you know,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: like a crossfitter or something like that. So I was
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: really insecure and I kind of hesitated, and a buddy
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: was just like, you know what, Sally, Like, you need
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: to understand that clearly your body doesn't have anything to
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: do with you being signed. They're reaching out to sign
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: you because of your performance, so maybe you should take
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: a hold of that. So it was, you know, a
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: couple of days of working through that, but I'll tell
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: you what, like within the first month, we did a
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: photo shoot and they posted those pictures on the Nike
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Running account and I cried. You know, it was I'm
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: still human, like I consider myself like I am pretty
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: thick skin for the most part. I do believe that
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: you have the power to receive or bad away the
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: comments that people say. And for me, it was just
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: so much you know, she's so big, that's not a runner,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: and just she's fat. And tons of comments coming in.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: So I did struggle my first two years with Nike,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: being with a brand that was so big and realizing
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: that I do not look like any other runner that
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: they had ever signed in the history of women's runnings.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: But then I realized too. I was like, no, like,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: I need to own this. And I had gone to
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: great measure to meet with nutritionists and I had gone
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: to two different clinics to get body fat tested because
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: I was you know, what I actually want to see,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: like what I actually am made of? If I were
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: to try to lose weight, what would I look like.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: So the first person I went to, she did a
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: dunk one of the dunking fat testing on me. And
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't tell her what I did for a living.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: I just came in like, hey, I'm you know, I
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: just want to get a fat test. And so she
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: sat me down. She's like, what do you do for
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: a living? And I was like, I run. She's like,
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: do you run.
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: Like a lot?
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Or and I was like, yeah, I run a lot.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm just wondering if you can
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: help me get rid of this muscle. She's like, well,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: you you're eleven percent body fat if you there's not
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: really much fat we can get rid of, and then
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: we'd start getting rid of muscle. I go, yeah, can
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: you do that? Can you help me get rid of muscle,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: like maybe in my legs? And she looks at me
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: sideways and she's like, yeah, I don't work with people
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: like that. Like she was like pretty much dismissed me.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: She's like, you will ruin your performance, you will ruin
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: what you do. You're going to be weak. And I
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: was like I didn't believe her, so I went somewhere else.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't tell the guy what I did. I did
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: a Dexa scan. This is where they like lay you
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: on a bed, same thing, like, I'm yeah, I work
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: out every now and then. And then he scans me.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: He gets the test back. He's like oh, He's like
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: what do you do for a living? He's like the
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: only people that have ever had these numbers are my
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: professional wrestlers. And I was like, yeah, I don't wrestle.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: I run and so kind of.
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: The same thing. He's like, you know you can't.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: I've never had anybody ask me to reduce muscle. He's like,
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: that's kind of like, why do you want to do that,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: and I started explaining it to him and he's like, no,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: He's like, you can do what you do because of
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: your muscle. And for me, like, that's a very humbling
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: story to share because I'm in the middle of my
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: pro career at this point, trying to figure things out,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out like, can I be better? You know,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: there is there is a bit of science, and yeah,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: the lighter thing is going to get faster up the mountain, right,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: But there's also the other side of you can be
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: very efficient and strong in the body that's been given
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: to you. And so I had to just own it.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: At that point, I thought, I'm just gonna I'm just
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: gonna keep on doing what I do. I'm going to
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: keep on being strong. And I had always lifted weights.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: I'd run a fitness and strength company. That's how I
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: was able to stay home with my kids. I started
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: that back in two thousand and seven. So I was
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: always sharing my workouts online and posting videos and things
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: like that. And even when people are like, wait, how
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: much do you lift and run? That doesn't make sense.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: That's probably why you're so big as a runner, and
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: you lift too much. And I just thought, yeah, but
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: I'm like not injured, like this is this is just
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: kind of.
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: What you know, what I love and what I do.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think that I'll always deal with the comments.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: I'll always deal with people coming up to me no
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: matter where I go. And I used to be cynical
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: about it, and even ashamed. I used to wear really
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: long jackets everywhere I went. I was always hiding my
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: body when I would go to events or races or
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: anything whenever I did media, just so that I wouldn't
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: get comments or people staring. But that was not a
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: way to live life. And I knew that. I knew
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: I needed to just embrace me.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: People are always going to have an opinion, right, And
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: even you said, like both sides of the coin. It
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: was like when you were playing soccer, you weren't big enough,
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: and now that you're running, you're too big, And it's
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: just like that word should It really gets in your
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: head sometimes. I mean I recently myself shared a post
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: kind of coming clean that before the New York Marathon
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: last year, coming off of a pandemic, only seeing you know,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: a certain amount of people in my circle over the
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: past couple of years that I felt really insecure about
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: this idea that I was about to quote unquote be
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: on display running through my city for people to have
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: an opinion about my body. And as a result, and
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: this is what I had mentioned, I certainly I mean,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: I was eating the weeks leading up to the race,
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: but I was not fueling my body like the strong
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: machine that had carried me for sixteen weeks through grueling training,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: through one of the best training cycles that I had
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: ever had. And as a result of that, I felt
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: like by mile eight at the New York Marathon in
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty one that I was completely bonked. And you
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: have to go through these hurdles or these quote unquote
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: failures to get to a point sometimes where you find
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: that appreciation that for one reason or another, whether it
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: be a mean comment on the Internet, or something else
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: that's going on in your personal life, or maybe just
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: where your head is at at the moment, that gets
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: you to have that greater understanding and appreciation for what
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: you do have instead of focusing on the things that
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: you are without or what could be or quote unquote
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: should be different. And so for me to go through
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: that lesson at the twenty twenty one New York marathon.
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: I now know better, and because I know better, I
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: do better.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: I recently ran the New York City half marathon, and
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: that entire week I was so much more focused. And
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: I know you nerd out about fueling and nutrition. Now
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: I'm totally there with you. I was really thinking, like
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: very highly about what I was putting into my body
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: and how I could fuel myself for the performance that
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: I knew that I had worked so hard to achieve.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: And so I'm right there with you.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: It's hard as hell to not let other people who
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: you actually know nothing about have an opinion on you
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: and your body and what you've got going on, and
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: not about that impact you. But as Trent Shelton, he's
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: a motivational speaker. I had him on the show once
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: and he always says this, and I am like, yes, sir,
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: are the people that have something to say about you
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: and your body? Are those people going to be at
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: your funeral? Yeah?
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: No, probably not, probably not. So you gotta let it go,
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: you know. But again, easier said than done.
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: Totally.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: I actually, now that my kids are older, we have
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: conversations about that because social media isn't something that we
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: had to deal with in our formative years.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: And I can't even imagine being sixteen and dealing with
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: social media right now, because it's such a hard time
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: at sixteen without it. But then also like for you
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: being a parent and helping them navigate that, my mind
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: is blown.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: My mind is blown, right.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, we have kids that you know, their brains
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: aren't even fully formed, and you see adults struggling with
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: social media all the time, and so we were pretty
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: strict with it in my home. We're strict with their
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: phone screen time, all of that. I'm totally that mom,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: and I'm not ashamed of it because I just I
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: see how it can change a kid's whole day by
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: the swipe of a screen or a comment that comes
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: in or something that's so hurtful. And remember when I'm
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: not sure which of my kids they had gotten, like
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: a mean comment was said to them, and I told them,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: who are the people that you look up to and
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: that you want to be like? You know, who are
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: your heroes? It doesn't even have to be like a
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: famous athlete or musician or anything like that. When you
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: think of your heroes, are those heroes also taking time
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: to tear people down? Do heroes tear people down. Are
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: people that you are inspired by that you hope to
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: be like one day. People that are that are always
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: putting into hard work and working toward their goals is.
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: Part of their life.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: Just randomly putting other people down. And do people that
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: care about you and love you do they say these
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: things to you. And so we had we proceeded to
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: add this like long conversation about that, and they said,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: that's how you're going to know what to receive and
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: what to reject. You know, sometimes your close family and
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: friends are going to have hard conversations with you. There
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: is going to be some constructive and truth should be spoken.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Some that needs to happen. We don't need flattery and
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: all the good things said to us all the time
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: if we're going to grow, but be careful about who
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: those people are. And you know, I think it's important
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: that you choose who gets to speak into your life.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: For me, it's a very small circle. And the people
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: who get to speak into my life also call me
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: on the carpet on things too, like Hey, was that
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: the best decision? Or should you have said that? Because
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: I know they've loved me from day one, they've loved
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: me in all seasons, Sally.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: Who are your heroes?
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: You know? Growing up, I definitely had sports heroes that
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: I looked up to. I loved Michael Jordan, I loved
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: Kim zamescal Brandy Chastain, and Mia Hamm. These are all athletes.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: But my mom really was my greatest hero. There are
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: moments in her life where she exhibited such incredible strength
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: that I still recall on those moments in my life
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: today and where I think about probably my my and
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: maybe I think this goes for a lot of people.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: Sometimes the people were most inspired by they're not well known,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: famous people. It's people who live real lives, who are
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: both vulnerable in their failures and their weaknesses, but they
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: don't give up. And so you know, my husband is
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: one of them too. I've always told him, like, no
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: one is more persevering and enduring than you are. I
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: met him when I was eighteen. We've been best friends
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: since we were eighteen, so and he's never stopped loving me.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: And I know that I haven't always been an easy
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: person to be around, especially just the way that my
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: life is and all the different things that I'm doing
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: all the time. Like he's so supportive. So you know,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: the ones that I look up to are they're real people.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: So I'd say my husband and my mom.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Vulnerability is relatable finding someone who seems to have no
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: problems at all, that like level of perfection is completely not.
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: Completely not.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: When someone goes to your Instagram page, they see this
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: outstanding tramerathon her she's got almost one hundred thousand followers,
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: A proud mom.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: A devoted wife.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: When you look in the mirror, what is it that
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: you see a looking back at you.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Well, the most consistent thing that I see, and I
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: tell myself, is someone that's growing. And that's truly what
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: I desire. I want to know that there's still room
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: left for me to grow. I think when I look
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: at myself and I think that too, it allows me
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: to give myself a little bit more grace because I
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: know that with growth, like you know, it's like any plant,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: like you got to push through some dirt to bloom.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: And I feel like that in my life, Like I
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: feel like I'll grow and then I think I have
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: it figured out, and then it's like, no, you still
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: got some more grown to go. There's still things that
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: we can improve on or things that we can do better.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: But I think too with growth in my life, it
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: just means that I'm also aware of how important it
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: is to be a student, and whether that's like mentally, physically,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: in my relationships. If ever, I come to a point
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: in my life where I think I've learned everything there
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: is to learn, or that I'm a master expert, Like
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: even as a professional ultra runner, I know there's there's
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: so many mistakes I still make and things that I
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: need to learn. And so yeah, that's that's probably the
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: biggest thing. And I'm a woman who is who's growing.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: It's funny we're kind of winding down here and I'm
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: realizing that we've hardly talked about ultra running. And I
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: think that that is a testament to what you were
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: saying before about the fact that running is such a
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: small part of it. Like, yes, it is your career
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: and it is an act that you've partaken, but the
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: lessons that you've learned on the run and interwoven with
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: the run are the things that your life is actually
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: built upon. They're the building blocks for who you've become
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: when you reflect on your career thus far, And you
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: did say that.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: You're just in the middle of it right now.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: What would you say has been one of your proudest
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: accomplishments as an ultrarunner.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: Gosh, I have two.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: I think is being able to do it as a mom.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: I think when I got when I got signed, having
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: two young kids and knowing what I came from, like
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: that was huge for me.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: It's very personal to me. It's it's not popular, you know.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: When I first came on, I didn't really know any
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: other moms that we're doing it, and it went back
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: and forth like sometimes I was like, oh, maybe I
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be here, but then I was like, no, it's
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: so great. I know I can still be a great
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: mom and show my kids this pathway and still pursue things.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: That I love.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: And so there's that.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: And then winning Badwater last year was really personal to
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: me too.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: I think on a on a.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: Career level, that's something I love, That's something I will
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: never be taken away from me. Being a bad Water
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: champion is something I dreamed about for a long time,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: and I really loved, loved being able to accomplish that dream.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: But a small piece of it, which it actually took
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: me a while to digest, was and I've actually only
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: talked about this like one other time was I wasn't
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: really excited about the performance I had. That wasn't the
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: performance that I had trained for and what I knew
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: I was capable of. Like I was pretty sad about
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: my time, Like I was like, oh my gosh, I
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: wanted like four hours faster. But as I went through
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: like the motions post race thinking about that, I realized
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: that so much of what happened in that race is
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: so just it's so true to the journey of my
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: life and what I've the path that I've always been on,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: and I have to be okay with that. I have
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: to be okay that for me, it might be that
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: I always get to the finish line with a limp,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: and that very much defies my life and who I am.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: And I think that being able to share that with
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: people allows them to be okay with Like, just because
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: you overcome something or you work through a challenge in
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: your life, it's okay if you still feel it's okay
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: if you still have visible scars from it, Like you
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: don't have to then become like a perfect person. And
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: I've had a couple races where I've won but like
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: the struggle to get there, or like the finishing time
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: wasn't what I personally wanted, and that was hard for me.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: But then I realized, I'm like, oh my gosh, like
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: this is such a beautiful parallel.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: To my life.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: Like I went out and I trained on that bad
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: water course like so hard, Like I was running the
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: last twelve miles of that race is a five thousand
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: foot climbup to Mount Whitney, and I ran hundreds of
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: miles in my training and that and I made sure
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: that I would be the fastest person running up that
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: mountain and I loved it. I was my favorite part.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: And in the race, like I was struggling to take
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: a step, like I dragged myself up that mountain. And
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: I was in fear a lot too, because I knew
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: I was. I lost so much time, and I kept
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: on asking crew, like do you see a headlamp behind us?
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Like is someone coming up? Like I don't know how
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: much longer I can push. And the one picture that
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: my husband had posted on his Instagram, it was a
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: mile before the finish line. I'm on my knees, I'm
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: bent over on my knees. I've been throwing up and
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: and it's him talking to me saying, you're gonna be okay,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: like you're so close. And I remember at that point
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: crying because I was like, I can't believe, Like I've
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: wanted to win this for so long, but in my mind,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: I envision myself winning triumphantly. I envisioned myself getting to
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: the finish line like so strong and just like breaking
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: that tape like a tiger, and I'm literally like limping
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: into my into my champion finish and so that was
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: that was hard for me, I think on and it's
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: hard to talk about too, because I think that a
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: lot of runners would be like whatever, man, Like I'd
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: do anything to win that race.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: You're so lucky to do it.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: But it's like when you have a goal for yourself
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: you've worked so hard for and you've devoted your whole
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: life and you sacrifice, it's precious and it's personal to you.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: It's not your goal, it's mine, and when you don't
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: meet it, it hurts a little bit. And so I
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: had to work through all of that for the couple
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: weeks after the race, But then I just realized, I
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: was like, you know, I'm actually grateful for that, because
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: the power of that finish is just a reminder of
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: so many of the things that I've overcome in my life.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Like I haven't been great. I have a lot of regrets,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of pain, but I'm still here
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: and I'm still moving forward.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: To provide a little bit of context or anyone who
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: doesn't exactly know all of the things about the Bad
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Water one thirty five, it is quote the world's toughest
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: foot race, a near mythical status.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: In the world of extreme running. So I just want
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: to make sure that we lay that down real quick.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: And I also do want to say that when it
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: comes to that finish, you're talking about being on your
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: knees a mile from the end, being in such a dark,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: frustrating place for anyone who may experience negative self talk
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: or find themselves in a similar position of being in
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: the lowest of lows. Maybe not necessarily on the side
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: of a mountain, but you get what I'm saying, What
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: advice do you have to offer them when it comes
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: to channeling that in our resilience.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: One of the most powerful things that I do in
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: those moments is I ask myself, what story do you
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: want to tell tomorrow. And when you ask yourself that
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: you take full responsibility. You can't blame anyone or anything.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: I could have been like, hey, i've and I did.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: I had diarrhea from mile fourteen, like I had a
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: horrible time keeping down my fuel, I was cramping, like
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: I was dizzy, like I had to put so much
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: physical discomfort, And I could have blamed that. I thought, Well,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: if I didn't have this, and if I wasn't vomiting,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: and if I But no, it's what story are you
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: going to tell? And now are you going to be
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: proud of that story? Is what's going to be the
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: best part? What's the turning point, what's the climax, How
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: is it going to finish?
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: Who's going to listen?
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: And I think that we can do that at every
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: point of our life when we have to make hard decisions,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: whether it's in your relationships and your career, your interactions
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: with the world around you, when you are gone at
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: the end of your life.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: What is going to be the best.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: Part of your story? What story do you want to tell?
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: What excites you right now?
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: My kids, I mean they're at this age. I mean
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: my kids always excite me. But like both of them
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: are really starting to be laser focused on their own
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: goals in sport, and I love I mean, I get
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: so excited. I love being on the sidelines watching them
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: because I still see them as like four and six
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: years old and they're not. But they they keep me
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: motivated and moving through not only like my training, but
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: they keep me excited for the future and my kids
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: because they've grown up with a mom that's always trained.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: Like they are constantly like, what was your mileage today,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: how'd your run go, where'd you run? What race do
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: you have coming up? Like, they're so just they keep
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: me on my toes and they bring so much joy
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: into my life. So I'd say that the other side,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to finish my book and I'm excited about
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: you know what that what hopefully the good that will
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: come from that, you know, the story that I want
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: to share is is hopefully to encourage people. So those
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: are probably the two biggest things that keep me enthusiastic
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: my running always will. I never grow tired of running.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: And I have a lot of exciting races on the calendar.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: I'll be hitting up a handful of countries this year.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: I love to travel and see the world. It's been
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: one of the greatest gifts of my career is being
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: able to interact with people all over the world while
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: running up gorgeous peaks. But yeah, those are those are
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: at the forefront of every day of my life.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: I'm also excited for you to finish your book. I
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: cannot cannot cannot.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: Wait for it. Thank you, all right, Sally, final question?
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: Right now, you have an opportunity to offer yourself looking
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: back on the hurdle moment in the eighteen months after
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: your mom's passing, taking care of your father, dealing with
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of tough shit. You have an opportunity to
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: offer that young woman a piece of advice looking back
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: on that hurdle moment.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: What do you tell her?
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: I tell her you can't see it now, but it's
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: going to be better than you could ever imagine.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: So grateful for you.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: I feel like that's like the biggest understatement I have
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: said in the last like five years. I am truly
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: just one of many people that gain so much from
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: keeping up with you, or at least attempting to on
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: social media.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: Not IRL, and I'm so happy that we can make
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: this happen.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: How do the hurdlers follow along with you. How do
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: they keep up with you as well? Give us a details.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram. That's probably where
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: my most active daily is on Instagram. I do have
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: a couple Facebook pages. One is a private community to
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: run in strength community, so you can join that, and
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: then I'm yellow Runner on there. My website Salamurka dot com.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: And then I have an app which you can find
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: in the link of my bio on Instagram.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: Thank you again, I'm so appreciative.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: I'm over at Emily a Body and at Hurdle Podcast
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: Another Hurdle Conquered.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.