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Failure to Flourishing with Siobhan O'Riordan · Success Matters

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I'm the same person and so why is it I'm either absolutely
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flourishing or I'm absolutely failing?
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A colleague of mine had mentioned she goes, have you
0:09
ever heard of this term generalist because that's kind
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of what you are. It was this idea that there are
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people out there, and there's a lot of people out there who
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don't specialize in a role, but really are people who tend to
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fill in the gaps or connect the dots or see patterns.
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How HR and how talent and performance and everything
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around work is actually set up for specialists and not for
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generalists. I'm a big believer in the
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strengths world that we all have something of benefit to bring,
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and when we do and we're aligned around that, it's just it's very
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powerful. So, Sean, thank you very much
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for joining me on Success Matters Podcasts.
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You were introduced to me by one of my previous guests and former
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colleagues, Charlotte Blair. Let's start with something we
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talked about when we we did the prep call, which is your, your
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Irish Irish, which is a term that OK, we some people might
1:09
get, but you also they reference last time was kind of very
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American thing to do to talk about being Irish Irish.
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It is. It is a very American thing to
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do. And in the States, people will
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often refer to, you know, everything that's in their
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background. So people will often answer, you
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know, someone says, you know, where are your people from?
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What's your ethnicity or something?
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And people be like, well, I'm a quarter Scotch, 1/4 French,
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etcetera. And, and my parents came to the
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States and right before I was born.
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And so when people ask me, I say Irish and then they say and, and
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I say Irish, Irish, which is that's all I am being a first
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generation American. But coming from 2 parents who
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grew up and got married. So, you know, came to adulthood
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in Ireland and then came to the States, which which did
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influence me at a young age. Being, you know, sounding
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American and being very much sort of American presenting, I
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guess you could say, at school and in life.
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And then, you know, having a much more sort of Irish culture
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at home, you know, which is subtle.
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But I think the experience a lot of people have in a lot of
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countries, you know that when their families move, yeah.
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Yeah, maybe not strong in moving from Ireland to to America, but
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certainly, well, you say that I'm moving, I'm Asian, right.
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And living in Britain at home, there's an Asian culture which
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is very distinct from the European culture and and you do
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kind of notice that difference. Yeah, yeah.
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And you notice that even though it's more subtle for sure, you
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know, going from a European culture to a Irish to an
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American culture, it would be more subtle than than what you
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experienced and and somehow harder to describe those.
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Subtleties you. Know them as a kid well, I would
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say, you know, parents are a little bit more strict perhaps
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you know, like you wouldn't, you know, kind of there's certain
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things you wouldn't dare to do. You might get in trouble and,
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and, and some of the like colloquial terms.
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And then I think also we're all like very verbal people, which I
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think it's a really Irish characteristic.
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And, and I would also say open minded.
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And I think that's often the experience of moving from one
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culture to another and being of two cultures.
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It is I find for me and and and I think there's probably people
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who wouldn't say opposite kind of an openness to people all
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different cultures because I I already live in too.
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Right. Yeah, yeah.
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And and talking, subtle as it is, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah. So talking of cultures, you also
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spent some time in a poll teaching I did.
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So tell us about that and and the cultural differences you
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noticed in that experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I often call it the happiest time.
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Yeah. In my life, Yeah.
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Why was it the happiest time? It was, you know, first of all,
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I felt incredibly lucky to get the role and job that I had,
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which was teaching history at an International School.
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And I was the history teacher or the social studies teacher.
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And it was a very small school and a very small student
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population. And the, the school community
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was just a really beautiful place for kids and for teachers
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and families because we really only had each other.
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So people really figured out. And I was really inspired by the
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students there coming from all these different cultures and all
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these different backgrounds and really finding a deep friendship
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and a lot of connection. And this idea of being kind of a
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global citizen was just, it was very, you know, gave me a lot of
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energy. And Nepal is a very beautiful
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place and with a lot of different, different types of
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people with different ethnic backgrounds and, but unified by
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this really incredible landscape and, and this incredible history
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of, of never having been invaded, which was like a
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really. Now, of course, there's giant
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mountains, which explains. There might be.
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A reason for that. There might be a reason, but,
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you know, but the culture itself was a just had, you know, the
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just parts of Buddhism and Hinduism and all these different
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languages and different people, but with a really strong sense
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as, and I've been in India and, and other parts of Asia, that
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real strong sense of hospitality and community that was, it felt
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very welcoming and wonderful and, and, and every day there
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was something new and wonderful to learn.
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So, but, you know, so I had the benefit of always being able to
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explore something wonderful, but also be in a community of
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people, you know, that I had deep friendships with.
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And, and, and everyone sort of shared this love of place.
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Also, I would say among the expat community, people were
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felt lucky to be there. Yeah.
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How long were you teaching there?
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I was teaching for four years. OK.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. For four years.
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And I knew if I didn't leave after four years, I probably
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wouldn't. Right.
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Yeah, it was that strong a pull. Yeah, Yeah.
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And then, of course, it's hard to be in a culture that can
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never be your home, you know? So I, I thought, yeah, yeah.
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So I made a hard decision. It was a hard decision, but.
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You had to tear yourself away from it.
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I did I. Did were the many tears at that
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time? Yeah, I it, it was a many tears
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over many months, both leaving and coming back.
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People were like, wow, you're really emotional about this.
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I said, yeah, it was pretty spectacular.
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So I was lucky to have some family members and friends come
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and visit. So they, they had a sense of it.
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And I'm still connected with students and teachers and other
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people from that time in my life.
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But it, you know. Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah. So.
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So when you went back, I'm assuming you went back to the US
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after Nepal? I did, you did, I did.
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So I had this really interesting and it's how I moved from being
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a teacher into the nonprofit sector and more specifically
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around philanthropy. And my college roommate at the
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time came over to my apartment and she was really, she was
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late. She was two hours late.
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And I was making dinner. And she said, you know, I know I
8:16
shouldn't ask you this, but could you, would you work with
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me? And I thought, you know, not so
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great. We might put our friendship, you
8:25
know, at risk. But we made this funny agreement
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that either one of us could leave by just leaving a note.
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You know, she couldn't, she couldn't say see you later.
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I could say see you later through a note.
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We. Never need to do that.
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Pretty much on. The desk, I'm gone, you know, to
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preserve the friendship. We never needed to do that.
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And instead, I ended up kind of coming into, you know, what we
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call in the States, the nonprofit sector or the social
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sector or third sector, and working both in foundations and
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nonprofits, which in many ways got me to the point of where I
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am now as a coach and consultant.
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Right. OK.
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And now you talk about being a generalist, which is kind of
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counter intuitive to what advice you get, which is specialized,
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you know, find your niche, find find that.
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So how did you land on being a generalist?
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And what is a generalist? Yeah, I, well, I think it's a
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really good question. One of the things that I
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realized looking back that while I love teaching for many reasons
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why, you know, that turned out to be a generalist.
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When I came back, I was having a career that that I would call
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spiky and it was either I was really doing incredibly well in
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an organization or in a role. I was, you know, getting
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fellowships or awards and recognition and I and I was
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thriving and happy great. Or I was in roles where I was
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absolutely crashing out, not doing terribly and and I was
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getting fired a couple of times and or I would quit.
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I just and I thought, what is this?
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I'm the same person. And so why is it I'm either
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absolutely flourishing or I'm absolutely failing and I can't?
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And I don't understand. And there was nothing in the
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middle, nothing. And I thought, this is really
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frustrating. And then a colleague of mine had
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mentioned she goes, have you ever heard of this term
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generalist? Because that's kind of what you
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are. And not soon after David Epstein
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published a book called Range and it was really around
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generalist versus specialists and, and and why they matter.
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And in in learning about the term generalist, which is which
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is really the default term for Jack of all trades or someone
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who might be a multi hyphenate or other terms, a utility player
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or a multipotentialate, I think is 1.
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I think it's too difficult to say some.
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I never say it, but it was this idea that there are people out
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there and there's a lot of people out there who don't
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specialize in a role, but really are people who tend to fill in
11:34
the gaps or connect the dots or see patterns and they are in
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lots of different roles within organizations.
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But how HR and how talent and performance and everything
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around work is actually set up for specialists and not for for
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generalists. And so this was like a big aha
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for me understanding that I was a generalist and that and that
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when I was in the right environment and I was able to do
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what I do really well, I was really doing great quality work
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and really on behalf and for others.
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When I wasn't, I was, you know, frustrated and, you know,
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probably became my own worst enemy, but wasn't getting the
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management or leadership or mentorship that I needed either.
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And so I came across a statistic in 2023 by a talent firm called
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OC Tanner and they do talent strategy for big corporations
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and they do an annual trend survey of 36,000 employees.
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And in that 2023, of those 36,000, just slightly over 50%
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identified as generalists. OK.
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Within their organization and frustrations around that.
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So they didn't feel like they had full access to promotion.
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They didn't feel like people had clarity or understanding of like
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what they were really good at or kind of what they were bringing.
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And so they felt, you know, there was there's there, there.
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It was ambiguous enough that I, I wrote a, a post on LinkedIn
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about what a generalist was and kind of what they bring.
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And it got, it's went viral for me, you know, and got, you know,
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from attention and post from people who I'm like, how did
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they even find this? And I had clearly hit a nerve.
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And that's what prompted me to write the book because I don't
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want people to have to suffer what I just suffered.
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So if I can, if I can help offer a framework and an approach and
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a clarity so that people who see themselves as generalists can
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actually understand themselves a little bit better so that they
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can communicate more effectively both what they bring and what
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they need. I think that serves us all in
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every organization and I think it serves us particularly at
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this time of pretty significant change.
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Yeah. So you touched on it that you
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know, HR departments, corporations as a whole, they
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like to put you into a particular role, write a
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particular box also. So how as a generalist, do you
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find the right role that fits you when all that you see
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advertised is we want a finance person, we want a salesperson,
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we want a operations lead, we want yeah, it's, it's always got
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that kind of title to it. And then the job description is
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usually very within that kind of sphere and that silo.
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So what's the advice to someone who sees themselves as a
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journalist or is around finding a role or, or do you have to
14:53
make your own role? Do you have to start your own
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business, as it were, to have that freedom?
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Probably both kind of it's a yes.
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And to take, let me take the first part of that.
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I would say it is hard to find a role if you're looking for
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something that's as generalist. However, there are roles where
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generalist particularly thrive and they tend to be roles that
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that that cut across an organization.
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So the classic is a chief of staff role.
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It's highly individualized to the person that it reports to
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and and, but that is often a role that works across.
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There are generalist versions of lots of roles like marketing and
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HR, especially in smaller organizations or teams that have
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a number of functions. And then there's, you know, many
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entrepreneurs and CE OS also identify as as generalist and
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also a lot of people who are consultants and coaches also.
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I the thing that is because there is no definition of what a
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generalist is. It is really and it's the
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responsibility of generalist at this time.
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It's, it's changing like the our operating context is changing
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where where I'm starting to see more job descriptions and more
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companies starting to understand the value of generalist and
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starting to incorporate that into job descriptions.
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They still have distance to go on performance etcetera and
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promotion. But what you do see is, is
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generalist increasingly coming, defining themselves by the types
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of problems they solve and how they solve them.
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OK. So, so in some ways they are
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presenting a solution to a problem that a role might be
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trying to solve that they solve a little bit differently.
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The other thing that companies looking for more adaptive talent
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and generalists looking to be in roles where they can kind of
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bring their ability to adapt is, is in even if it's a traditional
17:27
role and they've done something like that is again,
17:30
demonstrating, you know, are they a dot connector?
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Are they someone who fills in the blanks?
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Do they think about things that are more kind of systems level
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strategy, right? And also what does their
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curiosity look like? And does that show up in how
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they manage people? Does it show up in terms of how
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they look at process or does it show up in terms of how they
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think about product? I think the probably the most
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important, whether you're an individual contributor or a
18:00
consultant or someone looking for a role, is that you get very
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clear on the kind of, I call it the operating environment or
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context that you're working in or that you work best in.
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Because I think that is going to be more of a determinant, even
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more so than what the role is described as.
18:22
Right, OK. And you, you, you touched on
18:25
this earlier saying, you know, the, the change that's
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happening. So AI is definitely a big, big
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change. How do you see the role of a
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generalist within the AI world? I think I'm starting to see a
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role advertised called an AI generalist.
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So I'm seeing that pop up, but I think more importantly, it's
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what a generalist can bring. So generalists are have have
18:55
have three sort of defining characteristics that I just
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briefly touched on, but it's worth just a little bit more of
19:00
a description because how it really relates to to the value
19:04
that they bring. So a generalist is going to
19:07
bring a lateral curiosity. So as a specialist really wants
19:10
to go deep and become an expertise and we need them,
19:13
right? And generalist need experts, you
19:15
know, they don't just function by themselves, they function in
19:18
relation to expertise. And so, but jealous will be
19:22
looking across. They have a lateral approach to
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curiosity as opposed to a linear kind of deep orientation to
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curiosity that a specialist would have.
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The second thing they have is they make creative connections.
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They're a little bit out-of-the-box thinkers or
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they're, they're people who see the gaps.
19:43
So they're, again, not thinking in a linear or logical way, but
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often will make connections that, that seem, that are
19:52
creative or, you know, unlikely or, or, or experimental or let's
19:57
try it. And so, and, and, and these are
20:00
preferences of, of, of how generalists think and operate.
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And the third is they need an environment in which they can do
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both of those things. And so.
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Very entrepreneurial environments are very conducive
20:13
at an early stage, but also any kind of R&D function or anything
20:20
that's adaptive that needs sort of the, the abilities of or, or
20:25
what adaptation brings is a great place for a generalist to
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be, which of course is where we are now with AI.
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So AI has, has, has two really big asks of us, I think as, as
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people, as as workers, as, as you know, for me, thinking about
20:47
the future is how are we going to adapt to AI and use AI to
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meet the demands that we have and the needs that we have at
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work and elsewhere. But, and I think this is
21:04
particularly where generalists can can discern both.
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How do we keep people and the discernment that AI is effective
21:12
and useful in the center of what we do?
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So generalists can, because they're adaptive by nature, can
21:21
bring that kind of experimental approach forward.
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Let's test this, let's try this. But when they are really capable
21:30
generalist, they really understand their ability to
21:32
discern what's working and not working.
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And where AI fails is really around a lot of the stuff that
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is human. You know, it's you know, it's
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it's, it's we were joking before about some of the answers we get
21:49
from AI. And I recently asked it about
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who were people doing great generalist work, etcetera.
21:55
And, and David Epstein, whom I'm a big fan of, was mentioned, but
22:00
I wasn't, I was like, wait a minute, how dare you?
22:05
Yeah. And, and I wouldn't, you know, I
22:07
didn't really expect it, but I was really, you know, feeding it
22:10
pretty clear language from from my book and things I put out
22:14
there to see what was going on. And then of course, when I
22:18
corrected, you know, and I put that in air quotes, AI, it came
22:23
back with, you know, this big apology.
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And of course they would never make this mistake going forward.
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And I was like, you know, that that is also not human.
22:30
But anyway, so leading that adaptive function, really
22:35
letting curiosity and, and and and, and almost a playful
22:40
approach to different I, you know, solutions is, is something
22:45
that generalists have, have a lot of comfort with and can, can
22:49
carry that risk and help mitigate that risk a little bit
22:52
more readily within organizations.
22:55
OK. If you you're a Clifton
22:58
strengths coach as well, right. So is there any particular of
23:03
that 34 strengths that that are there, are there any particular
23:07
ones that make that stand out within the generalist population
23:10
for we're putting in? This is this is like my dream is
23:16
to get, you know, people who self identify as generalist to
23:19
take the the assessment and, and, and see where it goes.
23:23
And I know there's a great community and newsletter called
23:28
Generalist World and they did a kind of an informal study and
23:32
they said, you know, if these are the strengths, which ones
23:35
would you pick? Which is a little bit different
23:37
than taking the assessment and then getting the results.
23:41
And and they identified some, I think there are some that will
23:47
could more easily lend themselves to being a
23:50
generalist. But it's more and any strengths
23:54
coach would tell you this, it's less to do with what the talents
23:57
are per SE and more with how what you do with your talents.
24:02
But some of them ideation is 1 perhaps where it's people who
24:08
love to come up with ideas that can be quite generative.
24:12
You know, there's a number of talents that think about the
24:15
future. You know, strategic in the
24:17
Clifton strengths world is really about pattern detection.
24:21
So it's not really about strengths, but that could be a
24:24
good one. But there's also ones that
24:26
relate to people. So a lot of generalists are very
24:30
good people managers because their curiosity is about people.
24:35
And and so a lot of their solutions and how they're
24:38
thinking about that have to do with people.
24:40
And but any talent that helps to, you know, you know, and I,
24:48
and I talk about this in the book, but it's, it's also how I
24:53
came to my own understanding of where I succeed as a generalist
24:58
is through my strengths. And I think, but I think it's
25:02
even more vital for a generalist because they don't have the
25:05
language that you were talking about before around specialist
25:08
roles. So a specialist is going to be
25:11
assessed for their expertise. And if a generalist is an expert
25:16
at anything, it's the art of practice.
25:20
You know, it's, it's practicing things as you know, it's, it's,
25:23
it's the practice of learning. It's the practice of problem
25:25
solving. It's the practice of adapting.
25:27
You know those are all practices that iterate and, you know,
25:31
improve or you have to restart or reboot.
25:35
Yeah. Well, well, I mean, as you were
25:37
describing some roles that are, yeah, particularly suited for
25:42
generous, Yeah. You, you open my mind to
25:45
potentially roles that you might not consider because it's not
25:49
got a sort of firm type job title for a little better way of
25:53
putting it. It's, you know, it's because
25:55
we're we're conditioned to look for roles that we fit in, right.
25:59
Square playground hole type of thing is comes to mind.
26:02
Whereas that's that the genre isn't in that space.
26:05
They're in a broader, as you say, a more curious space,
26:08
right? One where they ideate and more
26:11
able to ask questions and come up with answers and solutions.
26:14
And yeah, really, really make a difference in that regard,
26:18
rather than being down a particular narrow path.
26:23
Yes, and I think it, it's and yet because there's so many,
26:29
it's clear we're needed and, and I think generalists can bring,
26:36
you know, a little bit of that. Do you know, managing the risk a
26:39
little bit of resilience a little bit and, you know,
26:42
through being adaptive, you know, and, and being able to
26:45
help organizations and specialists experiment with,
26:50
with how AI can help improve either workflow or whatever it
26:54
is they're thinking about using AI for.
26:59
And I think that's a perfect role for generalists because
27:03
it's, it's, it's the type of problem we like to solve and
27:07
it's very much in collaboration and partnership with specialists
27:13
and we need their expertise, right?
27:15
So it's not, it's never an either or, you know, do you hire
27:19
the specialist or, or the generalist?
27:23
But it's more, I think, for leaders and managers to realize
27:27
that they have generalists within their organization who
27:30
needs support, and that that they can be a model of what sort
27:35
of practice looks like and what being adaptive looks like during
27:40
these times of change. And I have, I have a feeling
27:43
that a journalist would probably be able to articulate a message
27:47
better than a specialist because often times specialists are very
27:50
deep in the weeds of what they do and what they know and they
27:53
can't articulate that that well. Whereas A generalist takes this
27:56
sort of high level view and connects those dots on behalf of
27:59
the specialist is what what I'm sort of thinking as you're
28:02
talking there. They definitely can.
28:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's, you know,
28:07
and some would be better at at communicating that, whereas
28:11
another generalist might be better at creating the
28:13
collaboration around it, you know, or another or, you know, a
28:17
classic is there are generalists who see who solve near term
28:21
problems, you know, so they see where the gap is and they fill
28:25
it and they can jump in and do a good enough job to meet the
28:30
needs so that the whatever the team is can move forward, you
28:33
know. That utility payer type in in
28:36
that kind of. Role.
28:38
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:40
So Shawn, as you know, this podcast called Success Matters
28:43
and I always ask my guests, what does success mean to you?
28:46
So what does success mean to you?
28:50
You know, I, I've been thinking about that a lot in and in the
28:55
current context. And I think I was also thinking
28:57
about it sort of over my own career.
29:03
And I think early on it was this idea of knowing enough that I
29:07
could share or, or or be respected around, you know, work
29:15
that I did, etcetera. I think for me, success is
29:22
having a sense of, of your work really being to the benefit of
29:27
others. So it's not about me.
29:30
It's really what it enables others to do.
29:33
And really feeling really leaning into that for me has has
29:40
been great because I don't I have no attachment.
29:43
And I don't know if that's, you know, that I don't care anymore
29:47
or that I'm old enough to to claim some level of wisdom,
29:52
which you know, which is, you know, also laughable.
29:56
But but I do think I am very, you know, looking at the
30:02
challenges that we're facing, you know, and it's, you know,
30:05
it's AI, it's an opportunity. But also we have big changes in
30:08
climate and the environment, which is, you know, presents
30:10
other kinds of challenges, this intergenerational workforce,
30:15
different economic systems and political systems.
30:17
There's a lot of challenges out there.
30:19
And I see a lot of talent on the sidelines that can help us all
30:25
solve problems by helping us be adaptive, by helping us to be be
30:30
more practitioner minded. And so for me, my success is
30:34
really just helping that conversation to happen and
30:37
helping those people come off the sidelines to, to, to bring,
30:41
you know, their intelligence and, and their promise to bear.
30:46
Because I, you know, I'm a big believer and the strengths world
30:50
that we all have something of benefit to bring.
30:53
And when we do and we're aligned around that, it's just, it's
30:56
very powerful. And, you know, seeing.
30:59
So that's, you know, that's for me, my definition, definition of
31:04
success is other people being successful.
31:07
Right, OK, yeah, then that's that's cool.
31:09
It's that piece around being hits of others is often how I
31:13
kind of, you know, interpret that it's if if you're in
31:16
service of others, it's often very fulfilling and that is
31:19
often the success, right. That's for me one of the success
31:22
metrics. So I have a tradition in my
31:25
podcast that I've borrowed from a, a very famous podcast to ask
31:29
a previous guest for a question for my next guest.
31:32
My previous guest asked this question.
31:33
I'll just read it out. It's what forms your identity
31:38
and how does success relate to it.
31:43
Wow. Yeah, it is a quite a big
31:45
question and and it was actually very quite a young person who
31:49
asked it as well, which I thought that's very interesting.
31:52
You know, I wanted to dig deeper.
31:54
Where did that actually come from for you, you know?
31:57
Yeah, what forms my identity and and how does that impact my
32:04
definition of? Success.
32:05
How does your? Yeah.
32:06
How does your success relate to it?
32:09
Yeah, it's an interesting question because I think what
32:17
impacts my identity is, is actually goes back to the
32:21
beginning of this conversation and there were a couple of
32:26
different aspects. So one was being Irish, Irish in
32:30
the state. So I felt a little bit different
32:33
already. I also had a speech impediment
32:36
and, and that made me feel a little bit outside the norm.
32:40
But I was, you know, very social and, and, and very enthusiastic
32:45
that, you know, which probably doesn't come as a surprise to
32:48
you or people listening to this. And I think the what sort of
32:54
formed my identity was because I sometimes felt a little bit on
32:58
the outside, but was a strong personality.
33:02
And, and I think there were, you know, I was born that way.
33:04
And I think there were other conditions around that.
33:07
It was this idea of speaking out.
33:12
And, and it took me a long time to learn actually how to do that
33:16
effectively. And, and I would say that
33:22
ultimately for me, the, this definition of success and, and
33:27
where it aligns with identity is that is feeling really aligned
33:33
that I am doing work that feels very aligned with who I am and,
33:43
and I bring it in service to others.
33:45
And I think for me, that is a definition of that.
33:48
That to me is my, my preferred definition of success or where I
33:51
feel, maybe it's where I feel most successful, but I think it
33:55
also, there is no break between who I am and what I'm trying to
34:01
do on behalf of others. So I'm not faking it.
34:04
I'm not pretending otherwise. I'm not trying to.
34:09
And it, you know, I've, I've tried on different roles before
34:15
where I didn't feel fully aligned and, and wasn't
34:20
successful. So I feel, I think I, I think
34:25
that sort of answers the question, but I think that's an
34:26
amazing question. It is.
34:29
It is an amazing question and I'm going to bank that for
34:32
future questions as well because I think it's a really good one.
34:36
And to your point about having had the spiky career, I'm making
34:39
an assumption here that when your identity was not congruent
34:43
with the role that you're in, that's when you had those tips
34:46
in your career versus when you were in line with your identity,
34:50
you had a spike in your career. Yes.
34:53
And I, and I think because I was really trying to do what I do
34:58
well. And, and, and when you're doing
35:02
what you do well, and this is the strength space argument that
35:05
I think the strength space coaches are really almost
35:08
fanatical about is, is it's not just rewarding for you, but it's
35:14
better for everyone because you're bringing what's needed
35:17
and what you can bring in a way that others can't.
35:21
So I, yeah, I think, I think that is a good observation based
35:25
on the, on, on the spiky career. And I, you know, the, the, and
35:33
the idea of success ultimately is, is individually defined.
35:36
And I think it's when you're most aligned.
35:40
And it doesn't mean that I don't think people need to be paid
35:42
fairly. And everything else, you know,
35:43
that's, you know, I think there's lots of different
35:46
metrics that matter. Yeah.
35:50
Do you? Do you have a question for my
35:52
next guest? I If they weren't doing, if they
36:03
could do anything else other than what they're doing, what
36:06
would it be? OK, they could do anything else
36:09
other than what they're doing. What would it be?
36:11
Right. Yeah.
36:12
That's yeah. That's always an interesting
36:15
question when you ask that and see what what people say because
36:19
the follow on then is why aren't you doing it now?
36:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's AI think I'm always
36:26
curious because sometimes people say the most incredible things,
36:29
you know, like, and it's usually because they don't have.
36:33
Well, actually we won't say that unless unless it's part is not
36:40
going to be recorded so. OK, we'll we'll park that 1
36:45
then. Yeah, yeah.
36:46
Yeah, we are approaching the top of our time now.
36:48
Sure. And it's been a really great
36:49
conversation. What's the title of your book?
36:53
The title is Reframe how Generals Thrive in a Changing
36:57
World and it's available at the usual online places and there's
37:05
a really great workbook that goes with it that is accessible
37:09
with AQR code inside the book. So OK.
37:13
Yeah. So buy the book, get the QR
37:14
code, get your workbook is yeah, that's part of.
37:17
It and people can find me on LinkedIn or my website, which is
37:21
big strategies, Big C strategies.com.
37:25
OK. Well, thank you very much for
37:26
the conversation. It's been really, really great
37:28
to speak to you today on Success Matters and we'll certainly put
37:31
the links and details in the show notes.
37:35
Awesome. Thank you so much.
37:36
And it's been really fun chatting and you ask such good
37:39
questions, so thank you for that.
37:41
To find your success, contact me at
37:43
info@successmatterscoaching.com. That's
37:46
info@successmatterscoaching.com.