Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to James Lark about his choice of Daleks Invasion Earth 2150AD

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Talks to James Lark about his choice of Daleks Invasion Earth 2150AD · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  This is Invasion Hamster, 2024 AD.
• 0:04
  The Internet has been bombarded by commentaries, subjected to
• 0:08
  blatant innuendos, savagely impraded by men with opinions.
• 0:13
  This is 2024 AD, the year where human beings are turned into
• 0:18
  living men, podcasters, the underground slaves of the
• 0:22
  listeners who keep demanding more. 2024 ADA year that will
• 0:27
  thrill you and terrify you. Joe Ford, the boy with the knack
• 0:32
  who doesn't find life. So IN2024AD, aided by James
• 0:37
  Lark, a reluctant traveller into the world of commentary
• 0:40
  podcasts, is a hamster with a blunt penknife.
• 0:45
  A shattering look into the future.
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  Bravo, you win the best. Sorry, Fraser, Gregory, you're
• 0:52
  out. That's the best intro I've had
• 0:54
  yet in 750 episodes and fire however long it's been of this
• 1:00
  podcast. Thank you very much.
• 1:03
  I set out really, I think at the start of my career to be better
• 1:08
  at one thing than Fraser Gregory, so today is a dream
• 1:11
  fulfilled to. Be honest with you, I don't want
• 1:13
  to disappoint you in life, but this may be the apotheosis of
• 1:16
  your career now and everything is downhill from this point on.
• 1:19
  Hi, let me, I think I'm happy with that.
• 1:22
  If this is if this is as good as it gets, then then let's make it
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  a good one. Good evening, James, and how are
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  you today? I'm very well.
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  How are you? Well I've been spending the last
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  two days watching and researching Daleks invasion of
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  2150 AD. Can I let you know a little
• 1:39
  secret? You can.
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  This is how important you are to me OK, because many moons ago,
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  probably about a year ago, I put out on Twitter.
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  I really want to do Daleks invasion of 2150 AD and I'm
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  looking you. I had over 100 responses from
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  people I thought like, no one's going to talk about I'll get
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  maybe one or two people. I'll I'll do a group thing.
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  And there was 100 people came at me wanted to do this bloody
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  movie so bad. I.
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  Feel like I need to apologise to 99 people because I think I was
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  one of the 100. Oh, wish you.
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  Oh, OK. Well, bugger those people.
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  We're here and we're doing it. Can I ask you First off, when
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  did you first see this? I asked you for a specific
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  reason because when I first saw this kind of means I cannot be
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  critical about this movie. Oh same.
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  Well, this was my first Doctor Who.
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  Ever. Ever.
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  No wonder you were hooked. I went to my best friend's house
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  for the first ever sleepover I'd ever been on, so it was already
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  the best day of my life. OK, I was nine years old and he
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  put on this film. Now we, I wasn't a Doctor Who
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  family. My, I think possibly because I
• 2:58
  had a younger brother, my parents thought that it would be
• 3:02
  too scary for us. And as far as I was the very
• 3:05
  limited awareness of Doctor Who. But he was a, a slightly scary
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  man in a really bright coat who'd been on an episode of
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  Roland Rat. That was my knowledge of Doctor
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  Who. And so when my friend Matthew
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  put this video on and said we're going to watch Doctor Who,
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  that's kind of what I was expecting.
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  And instead I was whisked off to incredible world of well, of
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  Daleks and more Daleks and chases and explosions and
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  Daleks, and I was absolutely in heaven.
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  And then to seal the deal, he stuck on episodes 2-3 and four
• 3:41
  of Remembrance of the Daleks. Oh.
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  Boy, I can see what we're still talking about it all these years
• 3:47
  later then if that. If that was your one and two.
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  Start after 10 with Doctor Who. This and Remembrance of the
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  Daleks. Remembrance of the Daleks 2
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  doesn't that? Isn't that the one that ends
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  with Ace being surrounded by all the Daleks?
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  So more Daleks and and I, I was thinking about this.
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  This film delivers absolutely everything a child could want
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  from Daleks. There are very few television
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  stories that match it in that the sense of kind of the
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  spectacle and Daleks actually on the streets.
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  Remembrance is one of the, is one of the ones that does that.
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  So I was, I went from one story with Daleks on the streets of
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  London to, you know, a slightly different London, although
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  they're both basically the 1960s, aren't they?
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  So you know both. Were spectacular explosions that
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  caused a lot of trouble for the people making the movie.
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  So this was my introduction, this was my way in and and the
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  film, this film, I was obsessed with it.
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  So I had to watch it every time I went round to his house.
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  And I remember I presented him with a couple of 90 minute
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  cassettes because in my head it was a kind of three hour epic
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  film. I was a bit surprised when he
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  managed to fit it all in one. But he recorded it for me with
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  his own narration. So I although I only watched it
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  a handful of times, I listened again and again and again to
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  this very badly recorded version with his narration over the top.
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  So when I hit, when I watch the film, I can still hear him
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  narrating the scenes, you know, spontaneous.
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  You throw some of his narration in there while we're watching.
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  Yeah, just always accurate. James, you have a a very close
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  relationship with music, don't you?
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  I do. I'm not suggesting that the
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  score for this movie had anything.
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  No, actually, maybe I am. I mean, it's a very memorable
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  score, This. It is a memorable score.
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  I think the so I remember this was released on VHS in the 90s
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  and the first Dalek film got kind of a glowing review.
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  It was released, do you remember?
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  It had quite a nice photo montage cover and it was elegant
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  grey kind of slip case and and Doctor Who magazine raved over
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  it and I remember being really surprised when the 2nd movie was
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  released. That Doctor Who magazine was
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  quite sniffy about it and particularly about the score,
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  which it said, you know, in spite of the vogue for jazz,
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  it's hardly going to be a success with with the casual
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  viewer or something like that. And it was basically kind of
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  saying this is not an effective score because it's just sort of
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  like jazz. I think it's much more than
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  that. I mean, I'm sorry, anyone with a
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  sane critical mind comparing this movie to the first one?
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  And I think the first one is a wonderful family film and
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  colourful and does exactly what it sets out to do.
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  This is clearly a bare movie. It's a better, it's a better
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  made movie. I know that there are people who
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  would argue the first film is a more kind of complete story, but
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  the first film's got to deal with all the introducing Doctor
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  Who and his family, and you don't get any dialects for quite
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  a long time. And even then it's as interested
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  in the Thales, so you don't get that many dialects.
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  I think as a child I would have been quite disappointed if I'd
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  gone to see that film expecting to see to feel the fire and to
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  to see dialects in colour. And actually, I would have felt
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  a bit cheated. I always feel like the
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  director's more obsessed with the sets in the first film.
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  There's all those sort of widescreen sets that you've got
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  in there, rather than the dialects itself where it's this
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  film. I'm sorry, I'll send you a
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  message in the week, didn't I? Or with fabulous moonlit Daleks
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  tearing down the back lot of Shepton or wherever they are
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  spurting out fire extinguisher for.
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  Oh, I just don't think they've ever looked better.
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  I agree. I I I I thought I was again, is
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  this just nostalgia speaking? I was I.
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  Don't think so. Not.
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  Not with that. Recent episodes I think you
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  have. Have the Daleks ever looked as
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  good as this? And I don't think they have.
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  There are better Dalek stories than this.
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  There are certainly better. I think in many ways a Dalek,
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  Dalek Invasion of Earth is a better story because it has more
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  time to sort of do it. There's better character moments
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  in it. There's sort of little arts.
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  There's a story for film as well.
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  For an 80 minute film, it's a better story because it doesn't
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  actually have to do that much. It's a very simple three act
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  structure. The first act is that you know
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  they they discover themselves on a horrible twisted version of
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  future version of Earth. The second act is all
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  journeying. The third act is they destroy
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  the Daleks. It's really simple.
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  But we've loads of brilliant action set pieces away.
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  But going back to the music, so the first film has a score by
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  Malcolm Lockyer and it's absolutely beautiful.
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  I think it's a good score. Yeah, absolutely.
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  It's matches the kind of the colour palette of the film in
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  that the film is doing something that Doctor Who itself, the
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  program wasn't doing at all, which is a kind of magical
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  landscape. It's almost fairy tale like when
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  they first get out of the TARDIS.
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  It's beautifully lit and the the TARDIS all lit up from the
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  inside and the music is doing this kind of impressionistic
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  thing. It's got lovely kind of metallic
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  percussion in there. And how?
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  About the bit where it goes, that's when they open the door
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  and go out into the front. I can hear it.
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  I've I've heard these movies so many times.
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  I know all the. Music could have come from a
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  from a Disney animation. It's got that kind of quality of
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  of fairy tale about it now. Apparently Gordon Fleming didn't
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  like the score for the first film.
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  I think, I think it stands up really well.
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  I think it's a beautiful score, but it's quite a conventional
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  score. So when I say it's it's magical,
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  it's doing what you would expect a kind of mad fantasy or science
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  fiction film of the time to do. And if you think to the the
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  theme that they give Doctor Who, which is not at all Doctor Who
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  isn't, you know, completely different approach to the to the
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  television series doing something unnatural.
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  It's, I'm going to see if I can give you an actual audio
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  illustration. Now that's a theme that could
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  come from any kind of spy series, basically from the from
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  the early 60s. It's got that kind of, it's
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  slightly jazzy and it's got a few blue notes and it's very
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  regular. The second film has a theme
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  that's absolutely unhinged and I don't imagine it in any other
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  context. So it's got these dissonant
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  intervals. It's a statement of intent.
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  We've sort of something going. It's crazy.
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  Now, it's not a beautiful score. I think it's a deliberately ugly
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  score. But to write it off as just jazz
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  is really reductive because actually I think that some of
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  the under score is really dissonant in a way.
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  And, you know, and yes, it takes, it's basically, you know,
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  it's harmonic language from jazz, but it absolutely pushes
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  the boat out. Some of it is more like
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  Stravinsky doing jazz than than, you know, a big band sound that
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  I think is sometimes reductively assumed to be.
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  Two things then, was the score approved for the 2nd movie?
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  Not by you. I mean by was it the director or
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  the? Yeah, the director?
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  I don't know. I don't know.
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  I don't know how the director thought felt about it.
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  I don't know how the producers felt about it.
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  And you used 2 words that I need to ask you deliberately ugly.
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  Yeah, I think this, this, this film is a bleak film if you if
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  you reduce it down. This is a, it's a film of
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  survivors. I mean, tapping into something
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  that Terry Nation's going to do much more than his career.
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  It's a film of it's a, a proper kind of apocalypse film.
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  And some of the imagery is really disturbing.
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  The dark, you know, some of the exterminations are really
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  disturbing. The action is violent and I
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  think the score is violent in response.
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  And I think that theme with the kind of the punctuation is not
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  there's not a lot of harmony there.
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  It's it's one group of instruments playing in octaves
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  against this, this rhythm section going it's just kind of
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  running away and then the, you know, the high brass going Bah
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  Bah Bah Bah like it's like being hit in the face by a brass
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  section. It's so when I say it's ugly, I
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  mean I think it's deliberately being confrontational.
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  It's setting up something quite terrifying.
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  So are you suggesting that perhaps sort of the reviewer of
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  Doctor Who magazine missed the point?
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  The point for me is if it had been scored entirely with the
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  the most dissonant stuff in this score, I think it might not be a
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  an appropriate score for a film that is a that's still
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  essentially aimed at children. Because the subject matter is so
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  bleak. If you don't give it that kind
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  of bold, brassy, confident swagger, you're kind of you're
• 13:01
  basically saying the Daleks are the same as Nazis, because we
• 13:05
  know. The the TB story has that sort
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  of what's it it's, they call it music, Tristan Carey music,
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  isn't it? And the TB story is isn't is
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  colder than this? I think the reason I say the
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  Daleks aren't the same as Nazis, it's not that the Daleks don't
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  stand in for Nazis. And you know, in a cinematic
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  sense here they absolutely do. But they're more fun.
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  And no, I mean, it would be a dereliction of duty to make a a
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  film about Nazis where everyone in the playground wants to be
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  the Nazis the next day. Whereas it's absolutely fine to
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  make a film about Daleks where everyone in the playground wants
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  to be Daleks, as indeed I did, because the Daleks look really
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  cool. And I think to have the Daleks
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  looking as brilliant as they do here and going around killing
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  people, gleefully killing people, to under score that
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  entirely serious would be missing the point.
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  The fact that it's got this jazzy swagger, I think makes it
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  palatal. It it, it's telling the audience
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  still OK to enjoy this. It's still OK.
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  This is fun. This is not truth.
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  This is not real. This is a, a, a science fiction
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  adventure. It's escapism the way that when
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  the dialect comes out of the tent Thames and it comes out
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  accompanied in a way that is bizarre.
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  I would never do it this way myself.
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  By a solo saxophone. And the saxophone goes, you
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  know, but then it's for a single Dalek kind of emerging to
• 14:28
  basically kind of go, hello, it's the Daleks again.
• 14:31
  And then the orchestra picks up that refrain and it and you get
• 14:34
  that, but by the full orchestra. It's bold.
• 14:39
  I think it's a really interesting approach.
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  My only complaint would be that at no point could you call this
• 14:44
  incidental music. I am very aware of the music
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  playing for and I don't know if it's just because it's put in
• 14:51
  very loud. I think it's part of the the
• 14:55
  whole, I mean the sound effects are pretty high in the mix as
• 14:58
  well. It's constantly battling with
• 15:01
  all of these weird sounds and. To be fair, the actors don't
• 15:04
  have much of a chance today. Though how how much dialogue is
• 15:08
  really kind of work worth, I say worth listening to how how
• 15:14
  important is the dialogue here? This is a a good old traditional
• 15:17
  cinematic production. It's that all.
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  It's a visual medium. And I feel like part of the
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  adrenaline hit you get from watching this bangy, crashy,
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  noisy piece of cinema is that there's a big jazz band.
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  Because I know David Whittaker had a lot to do with the 1st and
• 15:34
  the 2nd movie. And I think probably what he did
• 15:36
  here was he looked at that 6th parter and he went, you know
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  what? There's some brilliant, exciting
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  set pieces in this Dalek invasion of Earth, followed up
• 15:46
  by loads of slow character scenes.
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  Let's get rid of all of those. Let's just take out all of
• 15:51
  those, throw it in this 80 minute movie.
• 15:54
  You know, I mean, is there a character in this?
• 15:56
  Maybe Ashton, the black market here, that's about it, I think.
• 16:00
  I mean, Philip Maddock absolutely kind of uses his
• 16:05
  limited screen time to create very unpleasant character there.
• 16:07
  I think Bernard Cribbins is probably what you take away from
• 16:12
  this more than Peter Cushing, who wasn't very well when he was
• 16:14
  making this and I think who is. Really fun, Bernie.
• 16:16
  Christmas is really fun in this. But, like, how much Can you
• 16:19
  believe someone who just wanders into the TARDIS with a knock on
• 16:22
  the head and goes, all right, yeah, OK, we're in the future.
• 16:24
  Let's get on with the adventure then.
• 16:26
  You know, like there's, there's no attempt at realism, is there?
• 16:29
  Maybe I just want to believe in the character because it's Uncle
• 16:32
  Bernard, but. I mean, he's great.
• 16:33
  He's charming as hell. Can't be Sunday and play
• 16:36
  football Sunday. You know, I think, you know, I
• 16:40
  can identify with that, where they step out of the TARDIS and
• 16:43
  it's clearly an apocalyptic landscape and they're like, oh,
• 16:47
  maybe it's Sunday. Well, you mentioned something
• 16:49
  really important there, and that is that Peter Cushing was quite
• 16:52
  I'll. During the making of the film, I
• 16:54
  was reading an interview with Reverse Toby, who said she had
• 16:57
  no clue, absolutely no clue. So he hid it well, but I.
• 17:01
  He also restructured the filming around his available.
• 17:05
  He had to take some time off and they obviously there's a lot of
• 17:08
  scenes that don't involve. Him well, especially in the
• 17:10
  middle of the field where they're all moving across to
• 17:12
  Bedfordshire. Yeah, I'm sure the stuff could
• 17:14
  be written as I'm sure he was written out of scenes, but
• 17:16
  there's. One scene, in fact, where he
• 17:18
  doesn't voice over. You just see his gloves on the
• 17:20
  map and Ray Brooks is in the scene but Peter Cushing isn't
• 17:24
  and it's clearly just a double doing that scene for.
• 17:26
  Him, that's one of the locations.
• 17:27
  See, I think, I think probably it's the location stuff in
• 17:29
  particular that he wasn't really available for as much as he
• 17:32
  should have been. But my point there is that
• 17:34
  really, there's a reason why they took Doctor Who out of the
• 17:37
  title of this because this film ain't really about the Doctor.
• 17:40
  It's about the Daleks. And I feel a bit sad that, you
• 17:43
  know, young me didn't go away from this like Peter Cushing
• 17:47
  fan. I'm now Absolutely a fan of his
• 17:51
  his stuff, but when I watched it the first time it was all about
• 17:56
  the Daleks. And then I walked away.
• 17:58
  And my favorite Doctor was Sylvester McCoy because I got
• 18:01
  shown episodes 2 before. So Peter Cushing's absence from
• 18:06
  the the from the story didn't bother me.
• 18:08
  But but I think it's telling that I didn't go away kind of
• 18:12
  really with a sense of who, you know, of even how his doctor was
• 18:15
  characterized. Oh, I think there is a subtle
• 18:17
  difference to how he's playing it in this movie, though, from
• 18:19
  the first one. The first one, he's sort of that
• 18:22
  comedy professor royal figure, isn't he?
• 18:25
  Sort of. That's family, Granddad, man.
• 18:29
  Whereas in this one, he. I love the bit where Ashton
• 18:31
  betrays him and he goes no, no, don't worry.
• 18:34
  I expected it. Yeah, he's a bit more savvy in
• 18:36
  this movie. That's lovely.
• 18:38
  And there's there's another funny bit where they escape from
• 18:41
  their cell and the Daleks swoop in on them and he goes back in
• 18:45
  the Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:47
  I do wonder if had they made the chase, which they were talking
• 18:49
  about doing, if it would have been even better still.
• 18:54
  One last thing then I wanted to bring up before we go in and
• 18:57
  watch this thing because, you know, we've got 85 minutes to
• 19:00
  talk about this movie, is I think people underestimate how
• 19:07
  they got the Daleks right in this movie, sort of big, bold
• 19:12
  and colourful. Because an attempt was made to
• 19:15
  make the Daleks big, bold and colourful in the new series.
• 19:20
  And I'm not sure we could say that the Paradigm dialects were
• 19:23
  a spectacular success. Certainly not critically,
• 19:26
  anyway. Various people have gone on
• 19:30
  record and just said how influential this film was on
• 19:35
  them. You know, the Mark Gates of this
• 19:37
  world have have all spoken, you know, very fondly of these
• 19:40
  movies and I'm sure Stephen Moffatt.
• 19:41
  This is the same thing. They're bigger, they're multi
• 19:44
  coloured. You know, the voices are
• 19:45
  scarier. Less multi coloured in this film
• 19:48
  than in the first film. What I like about this film is
• 19:51
  the drones are all silver and when they've got colours, and I
• 19:56
  do remember loving the colours, there's nothing cooler than a
• 19:59
  black Dalek or possibly a red Dalek.
• 20:01
  I mean I wasn't sure. It definitely wasn't the gold
• 20:03
  Dalek, but the black one and the red one.
• 20:05
  They were vying for my my affections.
• 20:08
  But they are, they have positions.
• 20:10
  The gold one is flying the saucer and the black one is
• 20:14
  clearly the guy in charge. The red one is directing the the
• 20:18
  bomb or something. Along those lines you imagine so
• 20:21
  they they they're not colour colourful for no reason.
• 20:25
  Don't you love it as well that the director, you know, they've
• 20:28
  built that bloody interior salsa set with those enormous ramps
• 20:32
  going around. So you are damn well going to
• 20:34
  watch those Daleks going all the way down those ramps a couple of
• 20:37
  times and. Sometimes you're going to watch
• 20:39
  the cameraman trying to do it as well.
• 20:42
  Well I'll tell you what, I cannot wait to get going with
• 20:46
  this. Should we watch Daleks invasion?
• 20:48
  Earth turning 150 AD. OK, well why do you count as
• 20:52
  him? Child count as him and I'm going
• 20:54
  to do it in my voice over voice because that's the kind of mood
• 20:57
  I'm in. OK, we're going to play in
• 21:00
  54321. Will James Lark escape this
• 21:09
  time? Oh no, that's a wolf Sky ray
• 21:12
  rocket. Oh no, it's almost went
• 21:14
  Thunderbirds there as well. So fraught with danger, this
• 21:18
  voice over business. Canal Studio.
• 21:21
  Canal, OK. But I do.
• 21:23
  Do you think that the Big Daleks thing ever worked on television
• 21:28
  as well? Because I feel like one of the
• 21:29
  reasons they work so well here is they're outdoors.
• 21:32
  Yes, well, when else did they do it?
• 21:35
  Well, the supreme Dalek in planet.
• 21:37
  The Daleks do you mean as well? Yeah, well, that that's
• 21:41
  obviously that's a a Dalek of rank.
• 21:44
  So that works. I'm thinking more in in you who
• 21:46
  they they they tried to they tried to do the big Daleks thing
• 21:51
  and I don't think it ever somehow read in the same way.
• 21:54
  They look like tank. They look like tanks, not like
• 21:57
  preachers. They're troubling shock and
• 21:59
  nervous. Sorry, going to have to talk
• 22:00
  about the the film straight away.
• 22:03
  The camera work is more adventurous than it was in the
• 22:05
  first film that shot out of the car and back in and the way it
• 22:08
  pulls focus and then he dips down and we're on Cribbins.
• 22:12
  It's straight away. And what what a great idea to do
• 22:16
  a sort of a pre credits thing. The whole a thing that could
• 22:22
  never have happened on TVI think.
• 22:25
  Oh, rarely, at least. I love the fact that he looks
• 22:27
  into the windows like he wants to travel.
• 22:29
  You know, he's a bit bold with his life.
• 22:31
  I don't think this thing where they change time at the end
• 22:35
  could ever have worked on ATV episode though, because it was
• 22:37
  always following the TARDIS crew to start outside and to start
• 22:41
  with this, No, already it's got an explosion.
• 22:44
  It's exciting. Someone's been beaten up.
• 22:46
  And I don't know why James, but film work in the 60s looks more
• 22:51
  gorgeous than film work anywhere else.
• 22:53
  The picture just pops. And this of course, is the
• 22:57
  street that they later, you know, they later kind of
• 23:00
  covering rubble and use as a future St. as well.
• 23:04
  They're using a very small number of sets, really.
• 23:06
  Oh, don't you love us? What?
• 23:07
  There's no explanation at all. The piano's going crazy.
• 23:11
  He sees the TARDIS, he walks in, he sees them, he faints.
• 23:14
  You kind of just have to keep up.
• 23:17
  And of course we've got this. I mean, this would be the first
• 23:19
  time I ever knowingly listened to Boss Carter and Fugue and D
• 23:22
  Minor or a version of it. So it's a bit kind of camp and
• 23:25
  silly straight away, but it does exactly what it needs to.
• 23:28
  It sets this kind of very dramatic tone.
• 23:30
  It's a beautiful piano part. It's a little bit jazzy and
• 23:32
  it's, it's, it's melodrama. I'm I'm going to fight you on
• 23:39
  your suggestion of the lack of sophistication in the dialogue
• 23:42
  by quoting a piece that comes up now.
• 23:44
  I am Doctor Who. This is my niece Louise, this is
• 23:46
  my granddaughter Susan, and this is my time machine TARDIS.
• 23:50
  What's going on here? Then smash and grab core.
• 23:52
  What? Another one.
• 23:53
  It's always happened. I'm here how many smash and
• 23:56
  grabs to the how many explosion exploding shop fronts do they
• 23:58
  have in the area when we get this comedy glance What?
• 24:03
  Is this all about? I love it.
• 24:06
  I love that opening. It's it hits the ground running.
• 24:09
  And then this title sequence was another of the things I was sort
• 24:12
  of obsessed with. I know it's just paint being
• 24:15
  washed down a sink or something along those lines, but it's got
• 24:19
  somehow they've given it scale. And for all that on television,
• 24:23
  they have * scapes and you know, whizzy banging new digital
• 24:27
  effects. Somehow I found this more kind
• 24:30
  of tangible, like like like it's a, a literal storm of some sort.
• 24:36
  And the idea of time travel being quite a scary physical
• 24:39
  thing. What do you think?
• 24:41
  This is supposed to be a manifestation of the vortex
• 24:43
  here. Say So what else is it do?
• 24:46
  You know what it reminds me of? Have you ever seen the opening
• 24:48
  titles of The Neverending Story? That's a load of swirly stuff
• 24:51
  going around in in circles as well in the 80s, and that was
• 24:55
  another favorite when I was younger as well.
• 24:57
  I feel like so we're watching this.
• 24:59
  It's all been beautifully cleaned up since the version.
• 25:03
  It almost doesn't do this sequence any favours because
• 25:06
  it's quite clear what it is. Whereas when I first saw it, it,
• 25:10
  it could have been a kind of just this huge storm in space.
• 25:13
  There was something very kind of massive about the suggestion
• 25:17
  that this this was what time travel was like.
• 25:20
  But like H6 or wherever I was, this insane music over this
• 25:24
  thing, it like you said, it was like an assault.
• 25:27
  I was just knew I was This film was going to be exciting, you
• 25:30
  know? And imagine this in in, you
• 25:32
  know, in a cinema as well, in widescreen, looking at these,
• 25:35
  these colours fill the screen. Apparently he's quoted as saying
• 25:38
  he took a lot of his inspiration from John Barry.
• 25:42
  Oh yeah? Well, you can.
• 25:43
  Yeah, you can. You can see that, but it's, it's
• 25:48
  more aggressive than any anything Barry wrote for, for
• 25:51
  James Bond. You know, it's, it's, it's got a
• 25:54
  more modernist approach, I would say than than a lot of Barry's
• 25:58
  sort of mainstream what? The effects were in the in the
• 26:01
  original movie. What was?
• 26:02
  He sort of shimmery lights, not very good at all.
• 26:05
  A bit like what we opened this film with the Studio Canal
• 26:07
  thing. Studio Canal thing.
• 26:09
  That's right. OK, So very quick exposition now
• 26:12
  as to who everybody is. Very quick, isn't it?
• 26:17
  But never mind, I want a POV shot.
• 26:19
  Very nice. Like interior doors, that's
• 26:21
  something that's carried over. Into you've noticed how much
• 26:23
  they've cleaned up the TARDIS. We've lost all those crazy wires
• 26:26
  all over the place. Yeah, the.
• 26:27
  TARDIS is not very successful in the first film, but I'm I don't
• 26:30
  think it's that great here either.
• 26:32
  But then it doesn't need to be. It's you don't, you don't really
• 26:35
  get a sense of whereas the, the the first film gives you a full
• 26:39
  long shot of the, the, the entire interior.
• 26:42
  This is all close-ups, so it does what it needs to.
• 26:44
  What part of that artist interior do Rusty Davis loves so
• 26:47
  much that he included in the new series?
• 26:49
  I don't know what the original 1.
• 26:52
  In the Yeah 2005 and ever since. Is it the the livery thing that
• 26:56
  you started with? No, it's the doors being visible
• 26:59
  on the inside. Oh yes, well, the the same the
• 27:02
  white doors here, but they're not white in the original film.
• 27:05
  They're more visible in this in this one than than the 1st.
• 27:09
  Yeah, that is given what the Dalek technology looks like
• 27:13
  later, you know, those lovely buttons and flashing lights and
• 27:15
  things. It is a little basic.
• 27:19
  Great glass shop there of of of a power station.
• 27:22
  This, I mean, look at this set and it doesn't look like a set.
• 27:26
  It's it's so well lit and if you look at the photos of this set,
• 27:31
  it's absolutely enormous. And I confess something to you.
• 27:33
  Up until, until I bought the book, the coffee table book, I
• 27:40
  thought this was all shot outside.
• 27:42
  I was perfectly convinced to this year.
• 27:46
  Easy mistake to make because it's so well, it's so well
• 27:48
  filmed, it's so well lit and it matches the exterior stuff that
• 27:52
  they cut to occasionally perfectly.
• 27:54
  It, it is that lighting, I think what?
• 27:56
  And just all the rubble and everything.
• 27:57
  I was like, you can never sort of make that convincingly in a
• 28:00
  set. Maybe the Sugar Puffs posters
• 28:02
  are a bit blatant. Convincing rubble, though, isn't
• 28:05
  it? And again, it's something we
• 28:06
  never would would have gone in television in these days, the
• 28:10
  the ability to kind of cover the the the studio floor in that
• 28:12
  way. But now, sort of when I see the
• 28:14
  long shots, I'm very aware of the the cyclorama of London.
• 28:20
  Yeah, you can see it landmarks. This is fantastic.
• 28:25
  Compare that to the TV show version, where just one gird of
• 28:29
  falls. Yeah, they could have.
• 28:32
  They could have got back into the tarts and they see that they
• 28:33
  would bit of a bit of an effort. I'm not sure Crowbar's really
• 28:37
  going to help shift this lot. I mean, am I still 5 or does
• 28:42
  this still look expensive now? Still looks great.
• 28:46
  Tell you what though, if his TARDIS doors open inwards like
• 28:48
  the like the proper TARDIS, they would have a problem.
• 28:50
  They could crawl with that. James, come on now.
• 28:53
  Stop being an adult. Honestly, Bernard Cribbins, his
• 28:58
  character, told me. He has taken to all this like a
• 29:00
  duck to water. But he's wearing the look of of
• 29:04
  someone who's been knocked on the head.
• 29:05
  But you know, he's probably concussed still.
• 29:09
  Maybe this whole film is just a fever dream.
• 29:12
  I could believe it was oh, do you know what I absolutely love?
• 29:15
  Who? I can't believe we haven't
• 29:16
  mentioned yet for Bertha Tovia. Suzie who?
• 29:19
  She's great and she's got a real character, unlike Louise who is,
• 29:23
  you know, the the best dressed non character in a film ever.
• 29:27
  Look, she looked amazing in a bra and she advertised the film
• 29:30
  very well, OK? Even more amazing in that kind
• 29:32
  of Sherlock Holmesley thing that she's wearing.
• 29:34
  It's a lovely costume. They've seen a a foot, a shoe.
• 29:38
  It's a shoe factory. Don't we do bark again now in a
• 29:42
  second. That's.
• 29:45
  His way of going Yep, it's a shoe.
• 29:48
  Robo men don't quite work in this film.
• 29:51
  If there's one thing that kind of as an as an adult look, look,
• 29:55
  just to interject, there's the yeah, yeah, we were on location.
• 29:59
  Suddenly it matches, doesn't it? It's totally.
• 30:02
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:04
  But yeah, the the robo men are a bit of a misfire I think.
• 30:08
  Well, I I only think the the helmet doesn't work.
• 30:11
  I think the rest of it's fine. I.
• 30:13
  Think that getting your slaves to dress in PVC it might be up
• 30:20
  some people's street, but I I don't.
• 30:23
  Say sorry, don't you speak for me, all right?
• 30:26
  I don't think it's a very dialect thing to do.
• 30:27
  I think the thing went in in the television episodes where they
• 30:32
  have their old clothes on sort of hanging off them and they're
• 30:35
  like zombies. Is is a deeply disturbing image,
• 30:40
  but then maybe would have been too disturbing for this film,
• 30:43
  which like I said, is is aiming to be something quite different.
• 30:45
  It's a lot more fun than the than the TV episodes.
• 30:49
  Maybe choosing sort of post apocalyptic Britain then might
• 30:52
  not be the sort of area that you want to go into.
• 30:56
  But the, but the TV episodes revel in the fact that it's
• 30:59
  London. They, they have all the London
• 31:01
  landmarks in and you know, it's, it's like ATV version of that,
• 31:05
  that film. What's it called?
• 31:06
  Where the, where the Nazis have taken over and they're all
• 31:09
  riding around on London buses. It's called it happened here.
• 31:11
  And I believe it was actually made in or released in 1964, so
• 31:14
  the same year as the the Daleks invaded London on television.
• 31:18
  And the kind of iconography is, is absolutely deliberate.
• 31:21
  It's saying this is your country, this is your
• 31:24
  civilization that's been invaded, whereas in this film
• 31:26
  doesn't doesn't really linger on the London imagery.
• 31:29
  We never go to a London landmark, do we?
• 31:31
  Not once. Don't need to because it's not
• 31:33
  about that. It's, it's not about the, the
• 31:36
  living reality of, of some of, of, of being in an occupied
• 31:40
  country. It's the, it's about the, the,
• 31:42
  the fight back. It's about the apocalypse has
• 31:44
  already happened. One thing that really impressed
• 31:46
  me watching it this time was how Fleming had hired all of his
• 31:50
  guest actors that could absolutely wear those characters
• 31:54
  instantly. I mean, none of them have got
• 31:56
  any back story at all, have they?
• 31:57
  But you know who all of them are straight away.
• 32:00
  Little archetypes. This is memorable as well.
• 32:03
  Lovely kind of we're we're we're still in the the preamble.
• 32:06
  What? We're 10 minutes into the film
• 32:08
  and and Bernard Cribbings hanging out of a door.
• 32:11
  It's, it's such a horrific sound.
• 32:13
  Isn't it? Yeah.
• 32:15
  It just feels huge. See, I mean, no wonder I thought
• 32:18
  this was outside and nowhere in my brain would I ever think
• 32:21
  they'd have a set this big. It's.
• 32:23
  A big set if you look at the pictures and this is all build
• 32:26
  up and it and it builds to one thing and yeah, it builds to the
• 32:29
  the warehouse and the door and then it builds to the reveal of
• 32:31
  the flying saucer look at. It oh boy, the best piece of
• 32:37
  model work in Doctor Whoever. Love the counter rotating.
• 32:44
  I like the hum of it. You know, the sort of, it's sort
• 32:46
  of like a side. Screen.
• 32:47
  Yeah, really. That's cool.
• 32:48
  And then this, this composite shot where you see it flying
• 32:51
  over London, that if you could, if there's one image that summed
• 32:54
  up this film for me, it's that it's it's them standing, looking
• 32:57
  up at this flying sauce or flying over the ruins of London.
• 33:00
  Gorgeous. Now that is another problem of
• 33:02
  cleaning this thing up because I can't see the strings there but
• 33:05
  I choose to ignore them. We, we, we, we can squint.
• 33:09
  Look at that with it flying over London.
• 33:11
  I know you can see the cyclorama.
• 33:13
  Who cares? It's a great shot though, isn't
• 33:16
  it? And it's got a sense of scale
• 33:18
  and and and that thing, as you say, the sound is doing actually
• 33:23
  quite a lot of the the heavy lifting.
• 33:24
  You can tell it's a model, but somehow when when you've got
• 33:27
  that shriek, which is sort of half drone, half airplane, it's
• 33:31
  a. It's a beautiful model though.
• 33:33
  And have you got that same coffee table book that I've got?
• 33:36
  I have. Black and white pictures of it
• 33:38
  that they shot in the studio are just stunning and it again just
• 33:42
  reminds me how I just would prefer model work over CGI any
• 33:47
  day of the week. It's got, yeah, it's, it's
• 33:50
  solid, it's got perspective. It feels real.
• 33:54
  And, and they said the fact that they've built the kind of the
• 33:57
  underground stations as well, again, it just, it, it has a
• 34:00
  kind of authenticity, authenticity to it.
• 34:03
  And it's dirty. Look, posters are sort of torn.
• 34:07
  I also think geographically this all makes sense, that they've
• 34:10
  just gone down into Embankment, which totally makes sense from
• 34:15
  being near the river and just about where you can see the what
• 34:20
  would have been the post office tower and supports Cathedral
• 34:24
  very much in the distance. I think it all kind of matches
• 34:27
  up just about. I'm not sure it's deliberate,
• 34:29
  but in my head I can make that this all work geographically.
• 34:32
  All these advertising was Del Monte putting money into this as
• 34:35
  well. I know, Sugar puffs, definitely.
• 34:38
  Probably, yeah. No, they they surely wouldn't.
• 34:40
  They wouldn't have put up a Del Monte poster for free.
• 34:45
  You know how in the Strictly Cum Hamster episode that we did
• 34:49
  where you questioned my taste in sexy people?
• 34:54
  Did I? You did, Yes, when I was talking
• 34:56
  about David Tennant and Lady Christina D'souza.
• 34:58
  Oh, but no, not sexy people. You said that they had
• 35:01
  chemistry. Well I have to say I think Ray
• 35:05
  Brooks is a very handsome man and does not spoil my enjoyment
• 35:08
  Earth movie at all. Comes that Dalek out of the
• 35:11
  water again. Image that straight away popped
• 35:15
  into my memory and said yeah, I'm going to take up residence
• 35:17
  here for the rest of your life. It's a shame they didn't put
• 35:20
  someone inside that dialect because now of course I'm
• 35:22
  looking at going, yet it's clearly empty because no one's
• 35:24
  flashing the lights and it's wobbling about a bit.
• 35:27
  The first time round I was I. Think this must have been the
• 35:30
  first article I ever saw as well because I saw this young and way
• 35:33
  before I saw the TV series. And they get the voices right.
• 35:39
  That's another thing that. Well, who's doing the voices?
• 35:42
  Is it? It's, well, they're not
• 35:44
  credited, but it's, I believe Peter Hawkins and David Graham
• 35:49
  are doing the voices. But it's got some like like some
• 35:51
  gravity to it. I think the voice is heavy.
• 35:54
  Hell of a lot of reverb on it. But then it makes me wonder why
• 35:58
  in the TV series they didn't go oh, actually that worked really
• 36:01
  well in the movies. You never seem to write anything
• 36:04
  down in the TV series. You know, one story you get
• 36:06
  great Dalek voices and the next you don't.
• 36:08
  And special effects and et cetera, et cetera.
• 36:13
  And this is this is an exact copy of a scene that's in the TV
• 36:17
  episode, which takes about 5 minutes, and they just get
• 36:20
  through the same shot in 15 seconds.
• 36:22
  But it's the juxtaposition of Daleks in domestic settings will
• 36:27
  never get boring for me. I just love it, you know?
• 36:31
  Stick of Dalek in a Victorian manner, I love it.
• 36:34
  Stick of Dalek on war-torn streets.
• 36:36
  I love it. Another thing we've not had
• 36:38
  recently and and this, this film pushes some buttons.
• 36:43
  It's just, it's the ultimate yes, you know, you're Lou and
• 36:46
  Tuten Beck isn't. It the music in this scene where
• 36:49
  the, you know, munition centre is, it's very loud.
• 36:52
  Very dissonant, very dissonant, very loud.
• 36:55
  And it's and. And it could have come straight
• 36:58
  out of a a war film. Yeah, poor Louise.
• 37:02
  I think she only gets 5 lines of dialogue in the whole film.
• 37:05
  A lovely costume though. What?
• 37:07
  Misses Sherlock Holmes. I I would wear that.
• 37:11
  And you'd look very affectionate in it too.
• 37:14
  Great boots. This is word for word the TV
• 37:18
  show this speech attention. Attention motorized dustbins is.
• 37:24
  Great. But that is the kind of line
• 37:27
  that as a child you want to hear someone say because they clearly
• 37:29
  are motorized dustbins. And to have a character saying
• 37:32
  it, you're like, yeah, they've seen it.
• 37:35
  To swing back around to Rebirth's Toby for a second, who
• 37:37
  is very young here, I just think she gives a very mature
• 37:42
  performance. There's there's no sense that
• 37:43
  she's playing a kid. It's.
• 37:45
  Very assured. I think she was very good at
• 37:49
  watching and learning because she spent a lot of time in the
• 37:51
  first film with Barry Ingham, who was a real pro, and and
• 37:57
  obviously with Peter Cushing she was.
• 37:59
  And Andrew Keir, she spends a lot of this.
• 38:01
  Exactly. Now Andrew Keir, I think he's
• 38:03
  beautifully cast here. He's got just that, that perfect
• 38:06
  kind of gravelly you can believe.
• 38:10
  You look at his face and you think the horrors that man must
• 38:13
  have seen. That's not to to criticize
• 38:16
  Burner Kay, who I think is brilliant in the original.
• 38:19
  He is, but he's a he's required to do something quite different.
• 38:22
  In the original it's more of a slow burn performance.
• 38:25
  And he just, he's tired about the whole thing, doesn't he?
• 38:29
  Andrew Kerr, we have to kind of believe is going to leap into a
• 38:32
  a van and drive through a a road full of Daleks.
• 38:34
  I love the unspoken chemistry between him and Susan.
• 38:38
  And then later on when they're in the shuttle and him and the
• 38:41
  Doctor, they both grab her at the same time and they're
• 38:44
  tugging her this way and that. It's great.
• 38:49
  So we're getting sort of the potted history of Dalek invasion
• 38:51
  of Earth now, meteorites down. Here's another brilliant shot
• 38:54
  and it's kind of half map painting and and half the
• 38:58
  massive set again. Or another bit of the massive
• 39:00
  set. Look at the way those Daleks are
• 39:02
  just gliding around through the the rubble.
• 39:05
  What did I say the red Dalek was?
• 39:06
  What's the Red Dalek? Doing here, I'm not sure you
• 39:08
  were just deciding you know what their ranks were.
• 39:11
  Maybe the Red Dalek is in charge of robotising.
• 39:13
  I don't know. And then we get, you know,
• 39:15
  Potter's history of the first film, which this was thrilling
• 39:19
  as a child because my friend was there going, Oh yeah, there's
• 39:21
  another film and it's on a different planet.
• 39:23
  And I was like. Wow, can you get that one
• 39:26
  please? This.
• 39:30
  Always pointing out the differences between the Daleks
• 39:32
  in the two. I think what they haven't got,
• 39:34
  the satellite dish isn't it. They don't need them.
• 39:38
  They've got the slats in this. Look at that red Dalek.
• 39:42
  Gorgeous, sexy now. Here's Eddie Powell, and this is
• 39:46
  a phenomenal piece of action shooting.
• 39:48
  Oh, are you talking? About when it where he runs up
• 39:50
  into the building and then falls down on the bricks.
• 39:52
  How to injure himself? I think this is the best stunt
• 39:54
  in the movie. In a single shot falls through
• 39:59
  it, camera still rolling, Daleks close in.
• 40:03
  This is maybe the best extermination ever committed.
• 40:07
  Bills. Look at that now.
• 40:09
  I think the fire extinguishers are absolutely inspired.
• 40:12
  I think they're much scarier than a laser ray.
• 40:15
  Well, it's, it's a more of a physical effect, isn't it?
• 40:18
  It just engulfs him. What happened to him there?
• 40:21
  He his arms just sort of disappeared.
• 40:23
  It was horrible. Do you know what happened in the
• 40:26
  shoe? The the he, he through the thing
• 40:32
  at the wrong angle. Yeah, so.
• 40:33
  Apparently there was supposed to be a trip thing there.
• 40:34
  You know where he falls down? That was supposed to go at a
• 40:36
  certain time. You can actually see it quite
• 40:39
  clearly that that the explosion goes off before he reaches it
• 40:41
  and so he he goes down completely the wrong and.
• 40:44
  Got I can just remember he's. Exterminated that that flailing
• 40:47
  around is him actually just not able to stop moving.
• 40:50
  Watching that as a kid and watching an adult fall down into
• 40:53
  those bricks and just physically recoiling from how graphic it
• 40:57
  was. I couldn't believe when this
• 41:00
  finally was released on VHSI would look so I was like they've
• 41:04
  given it a you certificate of. All that murder people being
• 41:10
  stabbed and whipped, well. Well, it's, well, yeah, there's
• 41:16
  a certain amount of there's no blood.
• 41:18
  And there is a jazz score on it, you know, Sorry, I know we're
• 41:20
  not using that word, but. There are a few moments of of
• 41:26
  unadulterated jazz that is true. Oh, I love this.
• 41:29
  Right. What they do is they take a 15
• 41:31
  minute sequence from Dalek Invasion of Earth where the
• 41:34
  Doctor prats around in a cell for ages and because he just
• 41:38
  gets his comb out and goes put it under there, there we go.
• 41:42
  Yes, the Earth's Doctor Who is rather more sophisticated when
• 41:46
  when it comes to jailbreaking than Gallifrey's The Doctor.
• 41:50
  And you're right, it's delivery of back in the cell is great.
• 41:55
  And then now this is the first of many examples of a bit of
• 41:59
  handheld camera work, a bit daring and sexy, like someone's
• 42:05
  on the floor there, I think kind of filming the whole thing.
• 42:07
  These sets look really small. It looks genuine.
• 42:10
  I think that's why he's shooting up if.
• 42:12
  I'm I think it's the only way he's able to get in there.
• 42:14
  But it's dramatic. Yeah, absolutely.
• 42:17
  You can see that it's on a ceiling, which, you know, sets
• 42:20
  it apart from its television counterpart.
• 42:21
  Again, all we have to do is put a comb in it's.
• 42:25
  Great. Do you remember what he does in
• 42:27
  diet? He's got his ring and he's going
• 42:29
  along all these bits of. Glass and that's me and my magic
• 42:32
  ring and then I have to sing the right note with AI need to play
• 42:36
  a wine glass and. Look, they already had enough
• 42:38
  money for one set piece, all right?
• 42:40
  They had to fill the time somehow.
• 42:43
  Back in the cell. But it's a very easy way to
• 42:46
  escape. They've passed an intelligence
• 42:49
  test qualifies them to have their minds wiped.
• 42:55
  I don't get why that requires an intelligence test.
• 42:58
  No. Well, given they're not going to
• 43:00
  have an intelligence afterwards, but also.
• 43:02
  Maybe they only but the ones that are a threat.
• 43:04
  I'm not that smart, but I think even I could figure that one
• 43:08
  out, you know? Oh, I just drink in these Darlex
• 43:12
  Jones. And the rat.
• 43:15
  And this again. Straight out of a war film,
• 43:17
  isn't it? Try and explain it to me.
• 43:19
  What is it about the Bloody Daleks?
• 43:23
  Is it just because they're they're brutal tanks that go
• 43:25
  around killing people? Is it because they look like
• 43:27
  nothing else? But don't think they are.
• 43:30
  I don't think they are tanks. I think that we're excited by
• 43:32
  the fact that there's something inside them, though that's
• 43:35
  barely mentioned in this film. But I think that they are.
• 43:39
  I think it's Terry Nation's thing of they've got no legs.
• 43:42
  They were a a robot, which is which glides around.
• 43:46
  There's something unnerving about that.
• 43:48
  What I what I love about them in the movies, both movies
• 43:51
  actually, that you can't really do in the TV show, is they're
• 43:55
  fast. So when they're going along the
• 43:56
  streets, they zoom down those streets.
• 43:59
  Yeah. Were they in tricycles in these
• 44:02
  ones? Is that, am I remembering that
• 44:04
  correctly, that for the films they were big enough that they
• 44:06
  could actually do the the pedals?
• 44:10
  I don't. You just can't see them waddling
• 44:11
  like you can in. Well, I think no, but I think
• 44:14
  they've actually kind of been built to.
• 44:16
  But also then they're not outside, are they?
• 44:18
  They're in a studio. So it's all been set up.
• 44:20
  So there's, there's one bit on the back lot where they, they,
• 44:23
  they're all kind of trundling through the street and they're
• 44:25
  slightly more wobbly. It's like we said, this is all
• 44:29
  told in very broad strokes, but it's really easy to follow,
• 44:32
  isn't? It easy and very visual.
• 44:34
  You know, we we don't need the dialogue watching the sound
• 44:37
  down. It doesn't matter at all.
• 44:38
  He. Looks a bit kinky with that mask
• 44:39
  on. Red Dalek is is the the kink
• 44:42
  Meister, isn't he? The Red Dalek is the one in
• 44:44
  charge of the the PVC suits. Yeah, he's the boss.
• 44:51
  It on this PVC suit and collect your whip.
• 44:55
  I do. I do like the the sort of non
• 45:00
  verbal exchanges now Peter Cushing and Bernard Cribbins
• 45:03
  give each other whilst they're going through this process.
• 45:06
  The other person who's very good in this scene is Kenneth Watson,
• 45:08
  who is plays Craddock, though I don't know that he's even named
• 45:12
  in these scenes. It's only later on, but he's got
• 45:15
  a a great line in a sort of shifty, defeated look and a lot
• 45:22
  of stuff with the eyes. Oh, Peter Cushing.
• 45:27
  The end one? No, Kenneth.
• 45:28
  If you go in that one, you won't be rescued.
• 45:30
  I don't think PVC is Peter Cushing's look, is it?
• 45:34
  It's not, It's not, but the Cribians don't look too bad.
• 45:41
  We're back to to to your idea of sexy people.
• 45:44
  Yeah, no, I think they're darling, sexier, honest in a
• 45:49
  big. Finish box set with Lady
• 45:50
  Christina. There's just so something so
• 45:52
  wonderful about darling technology with his massive
• 45:55
  bloody buttons that they need. Do you remember in Remembrance
• 45:59
  where they've got the he's got the plunger and there's a
• 46:01
  plunger shape? Take take socket.
• 46:07
  It's great. And we get the we get the luxury
• 46:11
  of night scenes, which we sort of get on television.
• 46:13
  But Oh yes. Doesn't read like this and the
• 46:16
  way the moonlight glints off the Daleks look.
• 46:19
  Beautiful and I just love that it it's what's the instrument
• 46:23
  there that's playing the I. Don't know I've got the sound to
• 46:29
  it. It's mostly just strings at this
• 46:32
  point though, isn't it? It's just kind.
• 46:33
  Of well, it's like a drum or something.
• 46:35
  Like, Oh yeah, the the the, IT basically kind of side drum.
• 46:41
  It just, I don't know, it just adds a bit of drama.
• 46:44
  And now you, you compare this like for like with the attack on
• 46:48
  the sorcerer and Dalek evasion of Earth and how the two
• 46:52
  directors approach it. And I know there's a shit more
• 46:54
  ton of money in this, but Richard Martin shoots above the
• 46:57
  action. Most of the time you haven't got
• 46:59
  a clue what's going on. Whereas here, just all the
• 47:01
  editing and all of that, it just is so dynamic.
• 47:05
  You've got a giant ramp. What any kid wants is to see a
• 47:08
  Dalek push down that ramp. And I was thinking about this as
• 47:12
  well. One of the mistakes, I think
• 47:13
  that that has happened with the dialects more recently is that
• 47:16
  they've become indestructible. I don't think the dialects
• 47:18
  should be indestructible. I think they should be harder to
• 47:21
  destroy than a human being. They're not flesh and blood.
• 47:24
  So, you know, that's part of the, the, the point of them.
• 47:27
  But I don't think what makes them scary is that you can't
• 47:29
  destroy them. And I actually think early
• 47:31
  Daleks stories, you know, capitalising that the idea that
• 47:34
  you can destroy them, but it just takes many people to
• 47:36
  destroy one of them. Here it's more because a lot of
• 47:39
  them get blown up in this for the spectacle, but it's like no
• 47:42
  matter how many you blow up, more keep coming.
• 47:44
  When they go through all those Daleks on the road, there's a
• 47:46
  ship to mall weigh in. I think maybe for the first time
• 47:52
  pre CGI it feels like an army. It feels like there's a lot of
• 47:56
  them definitely. And there's a lot of of fast
• 47:59
  cuts here. So we get the impression of
• 48:01
  Daleks everywhere. And this is a great, I mean,
• 48:04
  look again, the fire extinguisher in in a enclosed
• 48:08
  space, that's a scary thing because it because it hits
• 48:11
  anyone. Jenny Linden says in the first
• 48:14
  movie that originally it was going to be flames and they
• 48:16
  changed it to fire extinguishers to make it more sort of child
• 48:19
  friendly, that you really couldn't be doing this in the
• 48:22
  studio with flames. I think so.
• 48:24
  I think there were, there might have been a few accidents.
• 48:27
  I mean, there were, I think one of the dialects in in this one
• 48:30
  did catch fire. I think one of the explosions
• 48:32
  went off and they had to quickly kind of hold the dialect
• 48:35
  operator out. So yeah, Kenneth, Kenneth
• 48:37
  Watson's, he's. Sort of been abandoned.
• 48:39
  You don't get your radio until later as a robot man and.
• 48:43
  Then is it right we don't see him then until the mine later?
• 48:46
  On SO presumably he stays on on the flying sauce.
• 48:50
  Whereas that is, to its credit, that is what Dalek Invasion of
• 48:53
  Earth gets to do. And that is sort of longer
• 48:55
  scenes. Him and his brother, you know,
• 48:58
  fleshy. And all of that of an emotion.
• 49:00
  And that's where the Rover men in the in the TV episodes really
• 49:03
  work in, in, in its favour. The the horrificness of there's,
• 49:08
  I guess there's not really time in this film for that kind of
• 49:10
  horror, that kind of visceral. Horror.
• 49:12
  You know, Louise Main. I mean, she does a lot of
• 49:14
  running in this movie. She may not get a lot of
• 49:16
  dialogue, but she certainly turns up at a lot of Phantom
• 49:18
  conventions. Does she?
• 49:20
  Yes, I've met her a couple of times.
• 49:21
  Does. She still have the costume I.
• 49:24
  Don't think she does, no. I think she looks amazing.
• 49:28
  I think if you were to just watch images of her, you'd
• 49:30
  think, well, that she looks like Diana Riggs I.
• 49:32
  Think that's sort of the idea though, right?
• 49:35
  Pretty much not. Not that we should approve of
• 49:38
  this sort of thing, but it's all sort of it's action here, James,
• 49:44
  isn't it? It's very action-packed and
• 49:47
  there's something truthful about the the the choreography of the
• 49:50
  violence. It's it doesn't feel hammy
• 49:52
  actually. Maybe the knife bit tiny bit,
• 49:56
  but there's something kind of desperate about the way the
• 49:58
  rebels were attacking. You know, throwing a brick at a
• 50:00
  Rover, man, that's, that's an act of desperation.
• 50:02
  I like the way that man comes down the ramp and then just
• 50:04
  dives on top of a load of Rover man That's great.
• 50:08
  Now some one of my favourite shots coming up here as well.
• 50:11
  And again, it's just in in the darkness, the way the The thing
• 50:15
  is lit, this silver light coming off the Daleks, the fact that
• 50:19
  Daleks in the background of every shot as well out of focus,
• 50:21
  you get a sense absolutely surrounded.
• 50:23
  Look at that shot of the Daleks advancing.
• 50:28
  Isn't that the? It's not the picture, I sent you
• 50:29
  it. Is it is.
• 50:31
  And then from a high angle, they, they, they've got the
• 50:33
  space to bring the camera right up to a high angle.
• 50:36
  This is them discovering the bombs don't work.
• 50:37
  So this is the level of indestructibleness that works
• 50:40
  for me because it's, you know, you think you can't kill them
• 50:42
  with ordinary bombs. Oh my God, look at all the bombs
• 50:45
  going off in front of them and they just come through them.
• 50:47
  Then they all would have smoked the way the.
• 50:49
  Screen fills with their fire extinguisher smoke.
• 50:52
  You couldn't have done. And then we're now we're now on
• 50:55
  the back of one of the studio sets.
• 50:58
  They've just taken the dialects outside and they've just got
• 51:00
  kind of an old car parked there. But it's it tells the story and,
• 51:04
  and look at the water on the ground.
• 51:05
  I don't. I don't know whether they hosed
• 51:07
  it down or whether it had been raining.
• 51:09
  You are right though, it is seamless, I think the way the
• 51:12
  way they're lighting it from studio to to location.
• 51:16
  Oh, look at them all down the end of that alley.
• 51:19
  I mean, we were hopeless to resist this when we were
• 51:23
  younger, weren't we? And they're so like every scene
• 51:27
  gives you plenty of Dalek action.
• 51:29
  Oh, I. Remember what I remember
• 51:30
  screaming at the telly as the Daleks are advancing on that
• 51:33
  manhole? I'm just spurting their phone.
• 51:35
  Down there and this and this is talking again about why the
• 51:40
  Daleks appeal, the way they're sort of gliding around
• 51:43
  soullessly while, you know, around dead bodies and, and, and
• 51:47
  flickering flames. That's that's what makes them
• 51:49
  unnerving. And it is a set like packed with
• 51:54
  interest, isn't it, as well, the flames everywhere, debris,
• 51:58
  bodies. Are we back on location now?
• 52:04
  He's very good at putting things in the foreground as well, so
• 52:06
  you've got a real sense of depth in these in these wide shots.
• 52:11
  Which is good because I mean in dock of Asian Earth, the the
• 52:14
  backdrop there, it's as apparent, but there's just so
• 52:17
  many interesting things in the foreground that you're not
• 52:20
  looking at the backdrop. Yeah, I mean, in this in this
• 52:25
  lighting as well, the backdrop's perfectly adequate for for this
• 52:29
  for this shot. I wonder if This is why so many
• 52:35
  dialect TV stories were a bit of a disappointment to me.
• 52:40
  It's not something that the TV series has been interested in
• 52:42
  doing, You know, sticking dialects on actual streets, let,
• 52:47
  let alone streets of rubble. It's not something we've had
• 52:51
  really well. Do you remember at?
• 52:52
  The end of the day of the Daleks when they start pushing their
• 52:54
  way through the French windows into that house.
• 52:58
  Yeah, I certainly remember how I felt about that as a child.
• 53:01
  What? There's only three of them.
• 53:03
  I know you, you talked about Day of the Daleks with Gary Russell,
• 53:07
  didn't you? And he was, that's all you need.
• 53:09
  And I was like, I'm, I'm afraid that young James needed a little
• 53:13
  bit more than that. Well, you know, if you go and
• 53:14
  watch the new CGI enhanced version, there's at least eight
• 53:17
  now. Yeah, I quite, I, I think it, I
• 53:23
  think it manages those scenes quite successfully.
• 53:25
  There are other things about that version that that don't.
• 53:28
  Fit into the CG James OH. Don't want it but but the fact
• 53:32
  they went out and they they filmed new bits and with, you
• 53:34
  know, with the same camera. Now look, we've had too much
• 53:37
  depth in this movie now, so we're about to get a comedy
• 53:39
  sequence featuring Bernard Cribbins in what were they
• 53:43
  called the Rainbow Drops? Oh yeah, rainbow drops or the
• 53:47
  vitamin pills. One or the other.
• 53:49
  I think this scene sucks. So do I.
• 53:55
  But. It's so pointless.
• 53:58
  But you can. The first film is much more
• 54:03
  overtly comic, and Roy Castle is there as the comic foil.
• 54:06
  And I think that comedy works rather well.
• 54:08
  I think it's quite charming. I think Roy Castle plays,
• 54:10
  pitches it just right, and it run.
• 54:12
  It's a running gag. Soft centres, James.
• 54:15
  Soft centres. This comes out of nowhere now.
• 54:20
  Well we got Bernard Cribbin, so we better give him a comic
• 54:22
  scene. And we had some comedy in the
• 54:23
  first film, so we better give it a comic scene.
• 54:25
  The the problem is it's a completely different sort of
• 54:27
  film and coming in the middle of what is a thinly veiled kind of
• 54:32
  resistance, Second World War resistance movie, it feels
• 54:35
  utterly inappropriate that the robo men who were meant to be
• 54:38
  this threat are suddenly reduced.
• 54:40
  And why have you not got your hat on straight?
• 54:42
  And, and you know, people will complain that Murray Gold can
• 54:45
  score comedy music, obviously, obviously.
• 54:47
  But the music in this scene? Positively restrained.
• 54:51
  It's practically going. Boing Boing, boing first.
• 54:55
  From the left, did he not realize that his eyes didn't
• 54:58
  line up his eye? It's so distracting, isn't it?
• 55:01
  What is? It a character's choice.
• 55:03
  I'm going to be the rebel man who can't quite put a helmet on.
• 55:05
  I'm going to be really mean and suggest he looks like a Robin
• 55:08
  man having a stroke. I mean it just looks wrong.
• 55:12
  But counterpoint to all of my criticisms of that scene when I
• 55:17
  was a child, I totally loved it. I loved that this film had done,
• 55:23
  you know, action and drama and the the most horrifying death
• 55:29
  I'd ever seen on screen at that age.
• 55:31
  And then I was like, oh, and now we get some comedy.
• 55:33
  How much better can this film get?
• 55:35
  So for the audience it's aimed at, it is actually a perfectly
• 55:41
  valid judgement. I would be sitting there trying
• 55:44
  to do the movements in time with him.
• 55:47
  So I can't talk with my with my rainbow drops or whatever I had,
• 55:53
  Yeah. Are you eating rainbow?
• 55:57
  Are you eating rainbow drops? Now I'm.
• 55:59
  Currently in strawberry laces. Another favorite of mine when I
• 56:01
  was younger. Honestly, I feel like I'm five
• 56:05
  years old tonight. It's wonderful.
• 56:07
  The Roman men have strawberry lace sundaes or something.
• 56:11
  Like that. Oh God, there is it?
• 56:15
  No, not. What's the name of the guy in
• 56:16
  the wheelchair? Dortmund.
• 56:18
  He gets a horrible death in a minute.
• 56:20
  Doesn't. He he is Wyler, isn't he?
• 56:23
  Oh, is it Wyler? I thought Wyler was.
• 56:26
  Oh, no, that's care. No.
• 56:27
  Care. OK, so Dortmund.
• 56:32
  And I remember the thing that really frightened me as a kid,
• 56:34
  weirdly, was him dying spinning the wheel of his.
• 56:39
  You, you see his last movement, don't you?
• 56:41
  And it's, yeah, it's very, it's very but.
• 56:43
  Again, he's just surrounded by jets, you know, there's no
• 56:46
  escape. Oh, she leaves this message in a
• 56:51
  very clear place. But the door slides.
• 56:54
  She leaves it on a door that slides.
• 56:56
  But it does slide shut again while they're in there.
• 56:59
  But their backs are turned to it.
• 57:01
  We really have with this conversation.
• 57:04
  Would you have seen it? You put your hand on your heart
• 57:07
  and say you would have seen that message.
• 57:09
  No, but I would have had this conversation when I was five.
• 57:11
  Do you know? Oh, here we are again, outside.
• 57:16
  The comedy is finished. Nearly.
• 57:20
  He still hasn't put his helmet on properly, though.
• 57:22
  You'd have thought that. You'd have thought the director
• 57:24
  would have thought. Can you just tell that guy to?
• 57:26
  Every time the Daleks appear right, do you notice?
• 57:34
  It's like proper sort of dramatic stings.
• 57:38
  This is what I mean, this is we're now very much into the
• 57:40
  second act of the film and this is where the music does kind of
• 57:43
  step back a bit and go, OK, we're it's a slightly different
• 57:47
  pace. We've established this is a very
• 57:49
  dramatic setting. Oh dear.
• 57:53
  But the Crepencies were falling asleep.
• 57:54
  I don't think people really do fall asleep like, you know,
• 57:57
  sitting up. Sitting up.
• 57:58
  Have you ever tried to sleep on a plane?
• 58:00
  Yeah, well. I've usually got a chair behind
• 58:02
  me. Yeah, Even so.
• 58:07
  See, I can. I can just about by that.
• 58:09
  He's a character who might March backwards like that.
• 58:12
  You know, I think that the comedy could have been better.
• 58:16
  The problem is it's such a plodding and not very funny
• 58:19
  comic set piece. Yeah, Where's all of this?
• 58:24
  And suddenly this is, I mean, this is the only moment Louise
• 58:27
  gets to shine. She actually has some lines
• 58:29
  here. I think they have quite a nice
• 58:32
  rapport. It's just that it's about kind
• 58:34
  of two minutes of screen time in total, so.
• 58:37
  The trouble is, it's not a movie for long dialogue.
• 58:39
  Seems like you said, isn't it? It's.
• 58:41
  And also, it's not a, it's not a, it's no place to be with
• 58:45
  those sleeves. It's a gorgeous costume, but
• 58:47
  you're going to set off all kinds of machinery.
• 58:50
  I love the simplicity of them escaping out of that shoot
• 58:52
  though and they just fall but onto the landscape.
• 58:56
  Simple. Is it that thing?
• 58:57
  Is there is suction coming from that?
• 58:59
  Does that seem like it would be a sensible thing to get down?
• 59:03
  That's like testing your vacuum cleaner and going well, better
• 59:06
  be always. Puts James, I love this as a
• 59:08
  kid, this conveyor belt with all of the sugar puffs going
• 59:11
  everywhere. OK, Cushing's had enough of the
• 59:16
  PVC. Get Me Out of this.
• 59:20
  You are. I mean, Ray Brooks probably
• 59:23
  should have seen the message. Susan hasn't written a small
• 59:28
  message there. She's got.
• 59:29
  Marvellous handwriting. She's got the thing that I've
• 59:34
  got when I try and write on a on a whiteboard, which is that
• 59:37
  letters get slightly higher and slightly smaller as they go
• 59:40
  along. OK, so now we've got to figure
• 59:46
  out where we're going. So initially we're heading to
• 59:49
  Watford, aren't we? Yeah, so the the only thing
• 59:51
  about this writing that they don't see and it's a big
• 59:55
  dramatic moment when they walk out in a moment the the the
• 59:57
  score says no, it's a. It's never really followed
• 1:00:04
  through because narratively they just sort of changed their mind
• 1:00:07
  a bit later. Oh, no, actually, I think we'll
• 1:00:09
  go to Bedford. That is the scene where Peter
• 1:00:12
  Cushion doesn't appear, but you hear his voice.
• 1:00:15
  Yeah. And but there's also it's Susan
• 1:00:17
  who arbitrarily, arbitrarily reversed.
• 1:00:20
  OK, we'd have some more. Strawberry arbitrarily decides
• 1:00:24
  that she's going to go to Bedford instead.
• 1:00:28
  So we've set up this kind of jeopardy and it's a little bit
• 1:00:31
  kind of OK, we need to end this scene on a cliffhanger, but
• 1:00:35
  we're not really going. To well, it's weird he decides
• 1:00:37
  to go because he figures out there's lots of Daleks there.
• 1:00:39
  And then she just says in a location saying well grandfather
• 1:00:41
  would never go there, there's far too many Daleks there, we'll
• 1:00:44
  go to Bedfordshire instead. Oh, but then we get those
• 1:00:48
  wonderful scenes in the cottage. Oh no wait, I'm pre empting.
• 1:00:50
  Myself, well, the newspapers fluttering in the wind that, you
• 1:00:53
  know, it feels like a real tube station, but I don't think it
• 1:00:58
  is. That's all studio still.
• 1:01:00
  Is it? No, that's not studio, is it?
• 1:01:05
  I think I think if you go to your big coffee table book and
• 1:01:08
  look at the studio pictures, that underground entrance is
• 1:01:11
  part of the studio set. That is impressive.
• 1:01:14
  Just possibly. I mean, I don't know the the TV
• 1:01:20
  show just can't lie like that, can't it?
• 1:01:22
  No, you always know when they're inside, Outside.
• 1:01:27
  Oh, I love those shots of the the sorcerer on film.
• 1:01:34
  But there's plenty of films from this era shot in studios that
• 1:01:37
  don't achieve the the look of an outdoor scene.
• 1:01:39
  I mean, this had a pretty healthy budget, didn't it?
• 1:01:42
  It was what, 385,000? Oh.
• 1:01:45
  Yeah. And that was what, three times
• 1:01:47
  the amount of the first film? That's why, and I think I was
• 1:01:50
  reading, they said that it was all eaten up by either action
• 1:01:53
  sequences, effects or location filming.
• 1:01:56
  That's where what extra money went.
• 1:01:58
  Now that's clever because I think I think we are on location
• 1:02:02
  now in in this garage and just cutting from the the low angle
• 1:02:06
  shot of the flying saucer to Susan looking out of the window.
• 1:02:09
  It sells it as as both part of the same reality, even though
• 1:02:12
  one's an effect shot. And then this is a we're back on
• 1:02:15
  the street that the that the pre credits was shot in.
• 1:02:18
  They've just search it up a bit. There's a sort of doubt.
• 1:02:22
  I'm going to say the word jazzy. It's very jazzy.
• 1:02:29
  But what about? How else do you want to score a
• 1:02:31
  A? Fan Are you enjoying this kids?
• 1:02:36
  You know this poor cripple that's about to be murdered?
• 1:02:42
  And that's a very atmospheric street corner, this sort of
• 1:02:44
  little bit of Dickensie in London.
• 1:02:46
  I think even even the van is well chosen, it just looks like
• 1:02:50
  a bad old van, didn't it? This is horrible.
• 1:02:55
  It's the futile nature of it that he has to prove to himself
• 1:02:59
  that the bombs don't work. And it's like, well, they don't
• 1:03:01
  work, but I can maybe take out the Daleks if I take out myself
• 1:03:04
  as well. And their reactions are really
• 1:03:07
  good to this as well. That's a horrible death.
• 1:03:10
  And he watched Tovey, who's just sort of widening her eyes in
• 1:03:13
  horror and looking away. Now imagine Caroline for playing
• 1:03:16
  that scene there. Would have been a lot more.
• 1:03:21
  All of that going on. Now there, now look, and you get
• 1:03:24
  this. Just the biggest crowd of Daleks
• 1:03:28
  you've ever seen trundling down the street, I mean.
• 1:03:30
  It's bad enough right that they murder him, but the whole wall
• 1:03:32
  falls on him as well. Yeah, it's really nasty.
• 1:03:35
  It's nasty. Oh man, oh I might have to shut
• 1:03:39
  up and watch this now as they go through the Daleks on the street
• 1:03:41
  in the car. Really really well mounted
• 1:03:44
  action sequence. And the music is like.
• 1:03:50
  What it actually spells it as a much longer bit of Rd. than it
• 1:03:53
  is because they they managed to sustain that crashing moment for
• 1:03:57
  for a fair bit the. The the zoom around on the
• 1:04:01
  Daleks and then the Dalek head moves, it's just so dynamic,
• 1:04:05
  isn't it? Dynamic.
• 1:04:07
  It's a that's a very clever way of coming out of that shot as
• 1:04:09
  well. And then we've got the Gold
• 1:04:11
  Dalek. Oh, here we go.
• 1:04:12
  We're going to do a little bit of zooming around these sets
• 1:04:14
  now. We're not quite into that set
• 1:04:18
  yet. We're this is still in fact, I I
• 1:04:20
  think those sets are on Earth, aren't they?
• 1:04:22
  They're the they're the mine workings with the ramps.
• 1:04:26
  Oh, Jones, can I say sight? Really inappropriate.
• 1:04:30
  You can. Well, you've never missioned
• 1:04:32
  before. I don't know how, I just feel
• 1:04:35
  like this is this turns me on more than porn.
• 1:04:37
  Watching these Daleks in this set, it really gets me going.
• 1:04:43
  Oh dear, it's wonderful. Sorry about that.
• 1:04:48
  Now there's a weird bit where they go.
• 1:04:49
  They drive through a farmyard that looks like it's, again, it
• 1:04:52
  must be on the back lot. It looks like a set from a, you
• 1:04:54
  know, a French Revolution film or something.
• 1:04:56
  It's got a little fountain. But even going through the
• 1:04:58
  chickens is dynamic, isn't it, you know?
• 1:05:01
  Be dynamic and then this muddy track that they're driving along
• 1:05:04
  is properly scary and that's of them looking at the flying
• 1:05:07
  saucer through the trees. It's so realistically done.
• 1:05:11
  They've made it look exactly as it would if you were if you were
• 1:05:14
  looking at the thing through trees in the foreground.
• 1:05:16
  It's a really. Successful.
• 1:05:17
  There's a lot of that, though, and there's a lot of perspective
• 1:05:20
  shots. And that's getting around.
• 1:05:22
  It genuinely looks like a scary drive.
• 1:05:25
  I believe Reberto Toby was actually in there as well-being
• 1:05:28
  quite scared about the whole thing.
• 1:05:29
  What's really great is the editing in a minute where the
• 1:05:33
  bolt comes down, it's a special effects shot, and then it just
• 1:05:35
  cuts instantly to that thing bursting into flames.
• 1:05:39
  It's a huge explosion. It's wonderful.
• 1:05:41
  That's another thing we love as Doctor Who fans.
• 1:05:43
  Oh yeah. This is another point where the
• 1:05:45
  where Mcguffey, Bill Mcguffey decides to score it.
• 1:05:49
  Seriously, there's nothing jazzy about this music here.
• 1:05:52
  It's properly kind of apocalyptic.
• 1:05:55
  Your van's just been blown up. But.
• 1:05:57
  As well, I think this is one of the points where the sound
• 1:05:59
  effects are especially good. Oh, the noise it makes when it
• 1:06:03
  fires that bolt. Well and the ship coming down,
• 1:06:05
  it just gets louder and louder are more oppressive.
• 1:06:09
  It's a very tense they obviously, you know that they
• 1:06:13
  get their money's worth from that.
• 1:06:14
  Explosion and then look just didn't cut into them on the
• 1:06:16
  ground. A wind machine blowing up the
• 1:06:18
  leaves. It just sells the whole thing.
• 1:06:23
  I want all Doctor Who to be like this.
• 1:06:26
  Yeah, OK. Well, that's an online petition,
• 1:06:28
  OK. I didn't feel I was going to get
• 1:06:31
  this excited. So anyone to Watford is is the
• 1:06:38
  story they're telling us. It's like a travel log now,
• 1:06:41
  isn't it? Just with explosions and like.
• 1:06:43
  This, I mean, I, I sort of, and I, we've had this conversation
• 1:06:46
  when we talked about Delta, how there is something about being
• 1:06:48
  in the countryside in Doctor Who as a child that was dragged on a
• 1:06:53
  lot of walks through the countryside.
• 1:06:55
  It made it all right. You unleashed the imagination.
• 1:06:59
  Never had to drag me to the countryside because every time I
• 1:07:01
  was in the countryside I was in pyramids and Mars or the Android
• 1:07:04
  invasion or or. Dalek's Invasion at 20. 150AD.
• 1:07:09
  London to Bedford. Silver Nemesis, name it.
• 1:07:12
  I was there. In fact, you know what I can
• 1:07:15
  remember? This is very sad.
• 1:07:16
  I used to, you know, long car journeys down motorways and we
• 1:07:19
  go past all this countryside. Oh, I love that road man,
• 1:07:24
  falling in the water. And that's a very efficient bit
• 1:07:26
  of storytelling because they've they've, they've done the long
• 1:07:28
  walk in about two minutes of screen time.
• 1:07:31
  And I would always imagine halls of Suntaras or something like
• 1:07:34
  that coming over their hills in the countryside.
• 1:07:37
  I think my imagination was rife when I was a kid.
• 1:07:39
  I'm not sure why I ever grew up. Two my when I was nine.
• 1:07:44
  I honestly would have bought that as a full-sized flying
• 1:07:49
  saucer. I did buy it as a full size
• 1:07:52
  flying saucer. Even at the end, you know, the
• 1:07:57
  end where it's sort of coming up and wobbling about and crashing.
• 1:08:01
  I remember well, my friend pointed to it and going can you
• 1:08:03
  see that's a model? I was like.
• 1:08:05
  Is it? But that flame, that flame on
• 1:08:08
  the set is, it's a small flame and I couldn't see it.
• 1:08:12
  That's kind of wonderful, though.
• 1:08:15
  Oh well, down the disposal shoot, James.
• 1:08:18
  Sensible idea. There's going to be nothing
• 1:08:19
  nasty. No, but I have seen Louise looks
• 1:08:22
  marvellous with the wind whipping at her hair like that.
• 1:08:25
  That matches the model shot, doesn't it?
• 1:08:27
  The hillside they land on. Great boots, Louise.
• 1:08:30
  Yeah, she does look great, but we really, that shouldn't be the
• 1:08:33
  the only good thing about her. Oh, this now as they go over the
• 1:08:39
  hill into the mine as well. And it yeah, that's again Daleks
• 1:08:46
  everywhere. And you you totally buy that as
• 1:08:50
  the mine workings from. Hell, there's actually only 5 in
• 1:08:52
  that long shot, but it's full of people.
• 1:08:55
  Enough to populate it though, isn't it?
• 1:08:57
  You need to see them glinting on the skyline.
• 1:09:00
  Well, I think you only see one in the original, so you know.
• 1:09:03
  And. Yeah, I like all these bits.
• 1:09:08
  Now it all gets a bit a bit nasty and a bit.
• 1:09:12
  This is what's happening on the earth.
• 1:09:13
  So the desperation of the workers here, Ashton coming in
• 1:09:17
  the black markets here, I like all this stuff.
• 1:09:20
  None of these were. I mean, there's no niceties
• 1:09:22
  here. The, the films that I'd seen
• 1:09:26
  aimed at kids to this point always had a kind of a
• 1:09:28
  reassuring kind of wink at the, you know, the adult characters
• 1:09:31
  would always be like, it's all right, really kids.
• 1:09:33
  We're, we're all friendly deep down.
• 1:09:35
  These people just look exhausted and and depressed.
• 1:09:40
  What sort of films were you watching?
• 1:09:44
  Height and ho, probably. I mean, I'm thinking about the
• 1:09:48
  Children's Film Foundation stuff and the, and the, you know.
• 1:09:52
  Mary Poppins, that sort of thing.
• 1:09:54
  I mean, I still watch Mary Poppins B.
• 1:09:56
  Two, yeah, like, I know every beat of the incidental score to
• 1:10:03
  this film. I know every single line of
• 1:10:05
  every song. You like Poppins?
• 1:10:08
  Stick him under the tarpaulin. What a grubby way show.
• 1:10:11
  Mary Poppins commentary, maybe? Oh please.
• 1:10:14
  Hamster Extra coming next. There's two things we love.
• 1:10:23
  No, actually, there's three things we love.
• 1:10:26
  As those who fans. It's running explosions and
• 1:10:28
  Daleks, and this film has an abundance of them.
• 1:10:31
  Oh, to the next to the shed. There's a bit of machinery that
• 1:10:34
  looks like it came off a Star Wars set, which chronologically
• 1:10:38
  it can't have done. But I do wonder whether it's the
• 1:10:40
  kind of thing that would have been later sold onto a Star Wars
• 1:10:44
  set. Maybe.
• 1:10:47
  There were things from dogs who that ended up in Star Wars,
• 1:10:49
  Kerry Nation, Army have done many videos about that.
• 1:10:53
  I like Susan jumping out and saying boom.
• 1:10:56
  Yeah, I do. Oh mature, she handles this
• 1:10:59
  horror so well, but she is a 12 year old at heart still.
• 1:11:04
  They've got a shorthand of father and son, even though
• 1:11:06
  they're nothing of the kind. London to Bedford, Watford.
• 1:11:10
  You would think I'd you know, I'm going to lighten the
• 1:11:12
  atmosphere by jumping out and shouting Boo.
• 1:11:15
  Yeah, there's a cottage over there, James.
• 1:11:20
  Maybe they'll have some food. And in the cottage.
• 1:11:26
  Is Irene? And where have we seen Eileen
• 1:11:33
  Wei before? Eileen Wei is in she's She's a
• 1:11:39
  prominent member of the Tribe of Gum, isn't she?
• 1:11:41
  And where will we see her again? Oh.
• 1:11:46
  Is she in? Is she in the time meddler?
• 1:11:52
  Am I getting that wrong? No, that's yeah.
• 1:11:53
  So Althea Carlton is. In Oh yes.
• 1:11:57
  Eileen Way is Lady Adastra's second in.
• 1:12:00
  Of course she is. Yes, yes, yes, she is the pit.
• 1:12:03
  And fabulous in that, May I say she's.
• 1:12:05
  Fabulous in all of these. Yeah, and in fact, it it this
• 1:12:09
  does again, it's 15 minutes in Dalek Invasion of Her.
• 1:12:13
  It's about 5 minutes in the movie.
• 1:12:15
  Yeah. Now Eileen Way is obviously a,
• 1:12:17
  a, a, a, a, an experienced Crone.
• 1:12:21
  The young woman in this, who's that?
• 1:12:26
  Sheila Stifel. I think I looked her up because
• 1:12:30
  I was like, what else has she done?
• 1:12:32
  She's really, I think she's really chilling in this.
• 1:12:35
  There's something about her smile.
• 1:12:37
  No, it's the giggle that she gives the.
• 1:12:39
  Giggle, but that that funny half smile that she gives them
• 1:12:42
  whenever you know, when she goes out, she's like, I'll take care
• 1:12:46
  of whatever is it she says, but she gives a small, you know,
• 1:12:49
  even there that little smirk. She, I think she's really
• 1:12:52
  chilling in this. It's like she's been broken in a
• 1:12:54
  different sort of way. But she didn't do much else.
• 1:12:58
  Few of a handful of small roles. I assume you were being entirely
• 1:13:01
  complimentary when you said that Eileen Way was an experienced
• 1:13:04
  crime. Oh, totally.
• 1:13:05
  Yeah, No, I think she's. I think she minute she comes on
• 1:13:09
  screen, she inhabits that character.
• 1:13:12
  And you don't know whether you trust her or not.
• 1:13:14
  You know, this is the thing. It's like, have we finally found
• 1:13:16
  some strangers who are going to be, you know, kind and.
• 1:13:20
  This, all this, this with them making the uniforms for the
• 1:13:24
  slaves and and selling them out. The black marketer, it just adds
• 1:13:29
  a few layers. There's not many, but it just
• 1:13:31
  has a bit of shade. I mean, they're all kind of
• 1:13:34
  resistance tropes really, aren't they?
• 1:13:36
  But there's enough of them. And it feels like a populated
• 1:13:40
  world, you know, a properly oppressed world.
• 1:13:44
  And we're about to, we're about to.
• 1:13:47
  I mean, that's. That's a map painting, isn't it?
• 1:13:50
  Gorgeous, but you know it. It totally sells it to to 9 year
• 1:13:55
  old me. There's another map, I don't
• 1:13:57
  know if we've seen it or if it's still to come, where the ships
• 1:13:59
  right at the front by the camera, but there's a map
• 1:14:02
  painting of the ship and that looks great as well.
• 1:14:08
  I don't even remember in the first film.
• 1:14:10
  Do you remember when they're going up the pipes up the
• 1:14:12
  mountain and you come back to the Max shot of the moon in the
• 1:14:15
  sky? Get a real sense of scale there.
• 1:14:18
  That's cool. And that sort of swelling music
• 1:14:21
  as they're going up. Look Peter cushions back.
• 1:14:25
  Peter Cushions had his, had his rest, and I learned there's
• 1:14:29
  enough kind of character here and he's not got a lot of a lot.
• 1:14:33
  He's it's all exposition, but the way he puts his, there's
• 1:14:36
  little spectacles on. It's a It's a typically thought
• 1:14:40
  about performance. And I he really doesn't get much
• 1:14:46
  to do, but oh God, I've forgotten his name.
• 1:14:50
  How terrible. Philip Maddox.
• 1:14:52
  Sorry, coming in in a minute. He basically acting wise steals
• 1:14:55
  the movie. There's something about his
• 1:15:03
  delivery of the lines and part of it is just his that slightly
• 1:15:09
  Welsh overtone to everything he says.
• 1:15:14
  But it it, it gives it a kind of a, every line he delivers has a
• 1:15:20
  bit of a leer to it or a, a subtext.
• 1:15:24
  It just it, it's, I'm not saying all Welsh people have a, a
• 1:15:29
  sinister subtext to their life, but there's something about the,
• 1:15:31
  you know, the, it's the way he delivers the lines.
• 1:15:34
  But but there is something really idiomatic about the way
• 1:15:37
  he says them. That's.
• 1:15:39
  I think Michael Mills is probably listening to this and
• 1:15:41
  thinking about how he talks right now.
• 1:15:44
  Michael Mills is, you know, a Phillip Maddock for the 21st
• 1:15:48
  century. Well, you talk about he's lost
• 1:15:49
  his Welsh accent anyway. He's dropped that.
• 1:15:53
  I don't know, just everything that comes out of his mouth just
• 1:15:55
  sounds like a threat, doesn't it?
• 1:15:56
  He has a a stillness about him as well that I find a bit edgy.
• 1:16:01
  We are talking about Phillip Maddock.
• 1:16:02
  Yes, yes. Not Michael Mills.
• 1:16:04
  Well, I mean, especially you remember his turn in the war
• 1:16:07
  games as the war chief. I mean, he doesn't have to move,
• 1:16:11
  he doesn't have to talk, and he's terrifying.
• 1:16:14
  He's got a calmness to it even like he slightly lose it there.
• 1:16:18
  Have you got a death wisher or something?
• 1:16:19
  But but but but it's all quite quiet and in a very noisy film
• 1:16:28
  he makes a huge impression by just being still and calm.
• 1:16:33
  But do you know, when I first watched this movie, one of the
• 1:16:37
  moments that really frightened me because, you know, when he's
• 1:16:41
  outside the heart and he goes, oh, I told you they'd come.
• 1:16:44
  I told you he was here. And then the dialects turn on
• 1:16:46
  him and he runs in there. I think it's the first time I'd
• 1:16:49
  ever considered knowing you're about to die.
• 1:16:53
  And it really frightened me, that scene.
• 1:16:56
  On his face that that fleeting shot of him back inside the
• 1:17:00
  shed. He's explosion.
• 1:17:03
  It's a that that's a high point of this film.
• 1:17:05
  Yeah, well, it comes right out, doesn't it?
• 1:17:07
  So you can see that explosion. I feel like that these scenes in
• 1:17:13
  the in the cottage, they, they almost feel like they come from
• 1:17:16
  a different film. They've stumbled into a kind of
• 1:17:18
  a a fairy tale nightmare for just a just one sequence.
• 1:17:25
  I work though I think. Absolutely.
• 1:17:28
  It's it it, it adds colour to this world.
• 1:17:30
  And it's so great, there's no dialogue there.
• 1:17:32
  He just realises straight away, OK, we're in trouble, let's go.
• 1:17:36
  I was always impressed by how she doesn't make a noise when
• 1:17:40
  she wakes up. Just, you know.
• 1:17:41
  She feels his hand over her mouth and she's like, OK, we're
• 1:17:44
  getting out of here. And the Dalek looks wonderful
• 1:17:46
  framed in the doorway. Wonderful.
• 1:17:52
  Just lighting up the ice talk like that gives it a real
• 1:17:57
  potency as an image, doesn't it? I mean, they know, don't they?
• 1:18:00
  They know that basically the key to Doctor Who's success is the
• 1:18:04
  Daleks at this point. And and, and lighting the Daleks
• 1:18:09
  well, you know, lighting them well, framing them well.
• 1:18:11
  They've watched Richard Martin do it and they've gone.
• 1:18:13
  I like that. It's why when you get to stuff
• 1:18:16
  like Destiny and the Daleks, you know, and they're so shoddy
• 1:18:19
  looking and you're like, what are you doing?
• 1:18:23
  These are the most formidable creations you could be working
• 1:18:26
  with. Why do they look so, so
• 1:18:28
  terrible? So now we're virtually in a kind
• 1:18:30
  of a prison of war camp film territory.
• 1:18:33
  We've got searchlights and a sort of escape attempt being
• 1:18:39
  plotted. Have you known this burner
• 1:18:41
  Cripples is still getting all the lines in these scenes?
• 1:18:43
  Louise is not saying a word. She's got a great costume
• 1:18:48
  though, she just doesn't need to speak.
• 1:18:51
  Her clothes do, the talking do. You want me to get you a replica
• 1:18:54
  or back costume? I found a picture of Croton.
• 1:19:00
  I could do it, you know. Most unpleasant thing in this
• 1:19:03
  film? In this film about an earth
• 1:19:05
  conquest and what the worst thing that someone does is offer
• 1:19:09
  them a tin of soup and then kick it over.
• 1:19:11
  What a bastard. So sadistic, and that's just a
• 1:19:15
  little moment. But actually I do think that the
• 1:19:18
  the point is well made that the Daleks are awful, but at least
• 1:19:22
  they're consistent. And you and you know what they
• 1:19:25
  stand for there. There are worse things than
• 1:19:27
  Daleks. With a bit more time, and if
• 1:19:30
  this was for an older audience, you could absolutely lean into
• 1:19:33
  that far more, couldn't you? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:36
  Do that whole 28 days later thing, even the way he walks in
• 1:19:45
  that room. Then she'll watch him.
• 1:19:46
  That's so smooth, the way he walks in with that shotgun.
• 1:19:50
  It's quite a reunion. I mean, what's he going to do
• 1:19:54
  with all this jewellery? Do you think he just goes home
• 1:19:56
  and wears it? It's not, it's not for payment,
• 1:19:59
  it's just. Who does he sell it to?
• 1:20:02
  Exactly. In this war-torn London, very
• 1:20:08
  bling. But again, it's a trope, isn't
• 1:20:11
  it? He doesn't get a lot of food for
• 1:20:15
  all that jewellery though. Yeah, I was quite surprised.
• 1:20:22
  I just forgotten that actually they they kept going with the
• 1:20:25
  pilot in the planet thing because it's sort sort of comes
• 1:20:28
  out of nowhere, doesn't it? And how he works it out from
• 1:20:32
  looking at a map of Bedford, I've no idea.
• 1:20:35
  Maybe. Maybe a scene got cut.
• 1:20:37
  When he was, he's Doctor Who. Yeah, he's a very clever man.
• 1:20:43
  Oh no, wait, he's not actually a target.
• 1:20:44
  Law from the planet gallop right here.
• 1:20:46
  He's just a eccentric inventor. His surname is Who and he's a
• 1:20:49
  doctor. Fair enough.
• 1:20:53
  Oh, that smile when he tells the drag of the cigarette.
• 1:20:57
  Yeah. He set his mother out, I swear.
• 1:21:03
  Now we're into the the into the, thus the mine working set, and
• 1:21:09
  we're going to have some more groovy handheld stuff.
• 1:21:12
  Oh, I love all of this handheld stuff with the Daleks now, yeah.
• 1:21:16
  Either it's handheld or I'm not sure whether or or it's.
• 1:21:24
  It is no, no, it is because in the in the coffee table book
• 1:21:28
  which we keep alluding to, they do mention about the handheld
• 1:21:31
  camera work there and how those sort of corridors were tie and
• 1:21:34
  in some ways it was the only way to shoot moving.
• 1:21:40
  And this looks like it's going to be a really interesting shot
• 1:21:43
  because it goes, the camera goes up and you think, oh, it's going
• 1:21:48
  to go through one of the holes and then it doesn't really.
• 1:21:53
  Although at least we don't wait for them to go all the way down
• 1:21:55
  to the bottom. We then go round to another
• 1:21:57
  Dalek. So there is movement this
• 1:21:59
  movement. And it's been thought out and
• 1:22:01
  it's going to end up in the centre so that we can look at
• 1:22:03
  the bottom. It's not a particularly
• 1:22:04
  successful shot and it's, you know, it's, it's too wobbly.
• 1:22:09
  If, if that had been achieved completely smoothly, maybe we
• 1:22:12
  wouldn't be talking about. It I wonder if the set design is
• 1:22:14
  hindering the shot. Though I think that is
• 1:22:16
  absolutely hindering the shot. Hey, leading straight down to
• 1:22:22
  the fracture. How to get a map of the Earth's
• 1:22:25
  magnetic? What is that?
• 1:22:28
  The magnetic? I can't read what the map says.
• 1:22:29
  The magnetic crack, I can't see what it says.
• 1:22:35
  The Linguan strata I can see disuse old mind workings.
• 1:22:39
  It's a very specific map. I mean, we're just now quickly
• 1:22:44
  going to explain how the film ends.
• 1:22:47
  Can I ask you, when you watched this as a child, were you
• 1:22:50
  wondering where they got the map from?
• 1:22:52
  Little bit no. And why not?
• 1:22:54
  Why? Are you wondering now, then?
• 1:22:56
  Not really. Oh, he's off.
• 1:23:00
  He's off to sell them out. Oh yes, so Cribbins now is going
• 1:23:07
  to spend the rest of the movie down in the mine workings trying
• 1:23:11
  to put a few boards He's. Been dispatched.
• 1:23:14
  You've played your part Louise. You've done a very good thing
• 1:23:18
  and your 3 lines very nicely. Please take her away to safety.
• 1:23:24
  I take her away in case she gets involved in the story anymore.
• 1:23:27
  I think we see her running like when he goes, you know, all
• 1:23:30
  Rover men attack the Daleks. We see her running through the
• 1:23:34
  mine workers, but that's about it.
• 1:23:36
  I mean, Ray Brooks is sort of out of it from from now on,
• 1:23:38
  isn't he? He's, he's done his bit.
• 1:23:41
  It's, it's, it's Cribbins's film from now on.
• 1:23:43
  The Doctor has has one last hurrah coming up as well.
• 1:23:46
  I do love his scene with the dialect so.
• 1:23:49
  It's great, yeah. And that's, that's where you see
• 1:23:51
  his, you know, the full extent of his, his characterisation
• 1:23:54
  and. Blatant sexism, though James
• 1:23:56
  Barbara had that role in the original.
• 1:24:00
  Yeah. She's going on about Hannibal
• 1:24:05
  and that coming over the rise. Do you remember?
• 1:24:09
  It's a that's a, that's an excellent scene, actually.
• 1:24:12
  And I but I guess we don't. The thing is that that scene is
• 1:24:14
  written to capitalize on what has been built up about
• 1:24:16
  Barbara's character, which is that she's a history expert.
• 1:24:18
  So we use the skills of the TARDIS members in the in the
• 1:24:22
  same way that Ian's skill is to be a bit of a a a man of action.
• 1:24:27
  I did notice that in the mine workings, whether we're outside
• 1:24:31
  and they're carrying pails or down in the mines carrying
• 1:24:34
  pails, it's the same line of actors every time because it's
• 1:24:40
  the same person at the front each time.
• 1:24:44
  When you were six, did you sit watching?
• 1:24:46
  That no, really, no, no. So I'll let it slide.
• 1:24:55
  The lighting here is also really nice.
• 1:24:59
  They've, I mean, I think these, these mine sets are, are pretty
• 1:25:03
  claustrophobic and they've lit it so beautifully by, you know,
• 1:25:07
  just with this throbbing blue light that actually they can get
• 1:25:10
  it totally dark in this side of the shot that they can cut
• 1:25:13
  between angles without you quite realising that they're they're
• 1:25:17
  cutting. Is there any part of this
• 1:25:18
  production you would fault? No, not really.
• 1:25:23
  I. Can't think of anything either.
• 1:25:28
  Oh, I even love this throbbing light because it goes completely
• 1:25:31
  dark. Yeah, and, and the, and the way
• 1:25:33
  that the light goes up and he moves the you know, it doesn't
• 1:25:36
  make any sense. Why has why has he got his
• 1:25:38
  helmet up? Or maybe he saw the other over
• 1:25:41
  man with his wonky helmet and he was like, I, I better adjust
• 1:25:44
  this. Just just kind of adjust my
• 1:25:46
  helmet. So we just caught him mid
• 1:25:49
  adjustment. That's so great though.
• 1:25:50
  The light went out and then when the lights came on, it was the
• 1:25:52
  cut to his face right in the camera.
• 1:25:58
  Oh, this is this is going to be the first of all dramatic deaths
• 1:26:02
  going down the shaft. First of many.
• 1:26:06
  Some of them are great. Sorry about that.
• 1:26:15
  Strawberry lakes were done the wrong way.
• 1:26:17
  See, so look, it's you know, you know that he sold him out and
• 1:26:21
  Cushing nose and he's played you know he you know that he's sold
• 1:26:26
  him out because he's playing innocent for once.
• 1:26:29
  Look at the dialect surrounding that shed.
• 1:26:31
  That is iconic. I think this might be my
• 1:26:35
  favorite part of the movie. Did you have the Doctor Who A
• 1:26:43
  Celebration? The Peter Hayne book.
• 1:26:46
  Weird enough, no I didn't, but I've recently acquired it for my
• 1:26:49
  auction. Right.
• 1:26:51
  So when I got I, I, there was a copy in WH Smith's, a battered
• 1:26:55
  old copy. And I got it for Christmas 1991.
• 1:27:00
  And I like everyone who got that book pored over the pictures.
• 1:27:04
  And there's a still of that explosion of the Daleks going
• 1:27:09
  up. And we're talking by that stage
• 1:27:13
  91. No, seven years after I'd seen
• 1:27:16
  last seen the film. And one of the things people
• 1:27:19
  talk about this film, they say, you know, growing up, this was
• 1:27:21
  the Doctor Who that you could get like in the in the 70s, they
• 1:27:25
  didn't really repeat Doctor Who very much, but this was
• 1:27:27
  constantly on television. I sort of had the opposite
• 1:27:29
  experience. I watched this film, I had the
• 1:27:31
  my cassette, learned it off my heart just by listening to this
• 1:27:35
  very chunky recording. But it was never on television
• 1:27:39
  and years passed before they repeated it.
• 1:27:42
  Finally, they repeated it on Channel 4 and the weight of
• 1:27:46
  expectation, because I'd only had the soundtrack and the and
• 1:27:49
  the memories, the pictures in my head, which sometimes, you know,
• 1:27:53
  is, is an absolute. And the picture in that book.
• 1:27:57
  And the picture in that book and a couple of others, that book's
• 1:28:00
  got a picture of the Dalek coming out of the Thames as
• 1:28:01
  well. But I I wasn't sure this film
• 1:28:04
  was going to quite live up to because I think it would have
• 1:28:07
  been 94, probably 94. How old then?
• 1:28:13
  Well, 1415. So I I.
• 1:28:16
  Cynical. You're in that sort of mid teen
• 1:28:18
  period. Was this film going to I was, I
• 1:28:21
  mean, I remember reading that it was going to be on Radio Times
• 1:28:23
  and I almost wept, but so, so kind of affectionate.
• 1:28:27
  I was this film and it just it, it absolutely lived up to my
• 1:28:31
  memories. Wonderful.
• 1:28:34
  I mean, I was hoping you were going to say that.
• 1:28:35
  I hope you. I was hoping you were going to
• 1:28:37
  say no. It was a great disappointment
• 1:28:38
  and I've learned to love it again as an adult because that
• 1:28:41
  can happen. Well, and because I'd been
• 1:28:43
  burned because as, as all Doctor Who fans are you, you, you, you
• 1:28:47
  realise that the memory cheats and you, you see things that you
• 1:28:50
  remember being brilliant. You're like, Oh no, actually
• 1:28:52
  that doesn't really look as good as I remember.
• 1:28:54
  It so it's I read a load of target novels for the late
• 1:28:57
  Williams stories. Oh well.
• 1:28:59
  In my head they were spectacular.
• 1:29:03
  I mean, I still loved them when I watched them, but yeah, well,
• 1:29:08
  you'd seen them. This is all you want when you're
• 1:29:12
  I was going to say when you're a child.
• 1:29:14
  This is all I want from a film, full stop.
• 1:29:16
  Now that I'm 44 years old, a massive bomb and a shaft and.
• 1:29:22
  Excuse me? A shaft that things can fall
• 1:29:26
  down. What more can you want from the
• 1:29:28
  the final act of a film? I mean, that might be the
• 1:29:30
  biggest bomb I've ever seen in any movie.
• 1:29:35
  It's pretty huge, isn't? It it's massive, it's.
• 1:29:38
  I love about these scenes is that they've they've dubbed
• 1:29:41
  footsteps. They've they've clearly had a
• 1:29:43
  whole session with metallic floors and and footsteps.
• 1:29:47
  And when they walk down the corridors, it feels properly
• 1:29:49
  like they're in an alien environment because it's feet on
• 1:29:53
  metal, which you don't normally get in films.
• 1:29:58
  And it's nice we're back in those claustrophobic, sort of
• 1:30:00
  Dalecky corridors now, aren't? We it all works, doesn't it?
• 1:30:03
  I mean, I, it's got something of that slightly kind of beigey
• 1:30:09
  color that that, that, that, that very present in the in the
• 1:30:13
  first film. I love the body language here as
• 1:30:15
  well. Where?
• 1:30:16
  He shook Wyler's hand. Thank you very much for looking
• 1:30:19
  after immediately. Then he's the one holdinger.
• 1:30:23
  I love that the doctor has mittens.
• 1:30:25
  It's very strange that he insisted, didn't he, that he
• 1:30:28
  would only do the 2nd movie if Robert Tovey did it as well, and
• 1:30:32
  that they're barely in it together.
• 1:30:34
  But when they are on, you see why you get a genuine sense of
• 1:30:38
  he is grandfatherly towards her, isn't he?
• 1:30:41
  Oh, very much so, yeah, very much.
• 1:30:43
  And like, I don't know if you've seen or read any of her
• 1:30:46
  interviews, but she's got nothing but affection for.
• 1:30:50
  Doing Oh yeah, yeah, she clearly had a ball making them, yeah.
• 1:30:53
  Did you not hear the story of her being called One Take Tovey?
• 1:30:56
  By golf and 2nd. Film I will give you a shilling
• 1:31:00
  for every take you get the first time and then she got a bag of
• 1:31:03
  shillings at the end of the movie.
• 1:31:05
  I love the the gold Dalek has a plunger.
• 1:31:08
  I preferred the claw to the plunger because as a child just
• 1:31:15
  seems so much more. Practical.
• 1:31:16
  It feels more functional, doesn't it?
• 1:31:18
  But I also liked that there was a Dalek that had a plunger, as
• 1:31:22
  if it's all part of the same mythos.
• 1:31:24
  Daleks don't have to have plunges or claws.
• 1:31:26
  They can, you know, a variety of attachments.
• 1:31:29
  This is his hero moment now, isn't it, Cushing?
• 1:31:31
  And I think he sells it. Now, and it's the moment that
• 1:31:35
  was on Daleks, the early years. Don't know if you ever had that
• 1:31:39
  on VHSI. Loved that all of those years
• 1:31:43
  tapes. And this was in the in in the
• 1:31:45
  wilderness when I hadn't seen this film for quite some time.
• 1:31:48
  And so this one scene was, it was like mana.
• 1:31:55
  I was a bit disappointed that that we didn't actually get to
• 1:31:57
  follow through and see some fire extinguisher action.
• 1:32:01
  It's very funny though, that, you know, after his big sort of,
• 1:32:04
  I know exactly what your plan is, he just goes look up there
• 1:32:07
  and then just runs over to the microphone.
• 1:32:11
  I like that they all, he says. This order cannot be
• 1:32:13
  countermanded. They all take their helmets off.
• 1:32:16
  Oh, they're all. I feel as if they've been
• 1:32:17
  waiting for this moment, you know, to revolt.
• 1:32:22
  The Dalek looks straight up at the bomb.
• 1:32:26
  Attention all rubber men. People falling down the shaft.
• 1:32:31
  Wonderful. There's a brilliant still in
• 1:32:35
  that coffee table book of the fella literally just about to
• 1:32:38
  fall down it but in the middle of the air.
• 1:32:40
  When that falls off, not down the shaft, just falls onto the
• 1:32:44
  floor, that there's a really nasty sound effect when he hits
• 1:32:46
  the floor, like like a body actually breaking.
• 1:32:49
  Yeah, they just kept that in. He didn't make it out of the
• 1:32:52
  movie. That's right, yeah.
• 1:32:55
  That Dalek just pushed somebody off the set there.
• 1:32:59
  And again, of course, they can't be defeated by the Roman men.
• 1:33:01
  They're, they're Daleks. They're, they're better than
• 1:33:03
  that. So again, we get a great scene
• 1:33:04
  where they're just gliding around dead bodies.
• 1:33:06
  Oh my bit's coming up where they're wrestling Susan either
• 1:33:10
  side of the corridor. And look, the camera pans
• 1:33:15
  through the outside of the mine ears and there's lots going on,
• 1:33:17
  isn't there for it? Yeah, it's very busy.
• 1:33:22
  So you presumably you followed the journey of this rail
• 1:33:25
  counter. Absolutely.
• 1:33:27
  I've been counting in Rails ever since.
• 1:33:29
  I mean, it's the biggest blood. In another story in which that
• 1:33:31
  clock has appeared, look. At the site is there.
• 1:33:34
  Oh yes. Excuse me?
• 1:33:37
  Oh hang on, Darlis master plan. No I, I, no I.
• 1:33:44
  I said that with the confidence of one who was.
• 1:33:47
  Your confidence is slipping, James.
• 1:33:50
  It's in the underwater menace. Oh, OK.
• 1:33:54
  They write in if. If it's not because because
• 1:33:57
  you'll be writing to Joe and it's.
• 1:33:59
  It's fault and you can only see it animated now anyway.
• 1:34:02
  Or yeah, most of it. I think there is a YouTube video
• 1:34:05
  following the journey of this rail counter through the various
• 1:34:08
  productions it appeared. I'm absolutely certain there
• 1:34:10
  probably is, yes. We don't waste our lives.
• 1:34:17
  Oh, it all seems quite calm now. What's going on?
• 1:34:19
  Oh yeah, Because we're just waiting for the bomb to.
• 1:34:21
  Down. Yeah, it's a big bomb.
• 1:34:25
  And I'm not sure those planks are being enough.
• 1:34:27
  Will they have? You noticed how that clock says
• 1:34:29
  rails, but it's in metallic tape?
• 1:34:32
  Yes, and. It's not quite strange.
• 1:34:35
  There was a because they had to give it to a different
• 1:34:36
  production a week later to to be a different kind of counter.
• 1:34:39
  So a rail was a second. That seems to be the case.
• 1:34:43
  No, that seems like a very reductive statement.
• 1:34:46
  Who would know what how long a rail lasts for?
• 1:34:49
  Gavin Rymal would know how long a rail lasts for.
• 1:34:54
  Jodie Whittaker didn't even know how long a rail was for, did
• 1:34:56
  she? In resolution.
• 1:35:00
  I've got a friend called Rail. What as a first name?
• 1:35:04
  Well, it's short for Rachel. That's not your.
• 1:35:08
  That's not your friend that you forced to watch Planet of Zed
• 1:35:11
  and Wolves and Mars. OK, it's just suddenly occurred
• 1:35:17
  to me that a rel counter would be a perfect birthday present
• 1:35:19
  for rel. That is, oh, look at the bomb
• 1:35:23
  going now and I just love how simple it is.
• 1:35:28
  He just put a few planks there and it's going in the other
• 1:35:30
  direction now down the March and.
• 1:35:31
  You, you sort of the, the way the reason this finale works is
• 1:35:35
  because we're in on it. We know what he's done.
• 1:35:37
  We know that the bombs going in the wrong direction.
• 1:35:39
  So the Daleks are there kind of complacently gliding around,
• 1:35:43
  checking their machinery. Can I ask why is the bomb not
• 1:35:46
  still going off though? I think the bomb is going off,
• 1:35:50
  isn't it? What?
• 1:35:52
  Does it? Yeah, it's still right.
• 1:35:55
  It's sliding down. So the rail counter is counting
• 1:35:57
  down to it there. Yeah, the bomb explodes.
• 1:36:05
  It just explodes in the wrong place.
• 1:36:06
  Hold on, maybe I've been sort of zoning out towards the end of
• 1:36:09
  the movie each time there's. Definitely an explosion.
• 1:36:13
  All I know is is Oh yeah, here we go.
• 1:36:15
  Now I think the clock stops, doesn't it?
• 1:36:20
  All the magnetic force has been revealed.
• 1:36:24
  Yeah, by the bomb going off. Oh, I don't remember it.
• 1:36:28
  I'm sure that was a bomb going off and now.
• 1:36:30
  So there are two things that darts do and one of them is
• 1:36:36
  exterminate and the other is cannot control.
• 1:36:38
  And the therein lies the magic of them.
• 1:36:42
  They they, they kill people and then they they, they self
• 1:36:45
  destruct in the most entertaining way.
• 1:36:48
  That run that goes super fast through the wall and then
• 1:36:51
  Cushing goes, oh good, it's working.
• 1:36:55
  But he speaks for all of us. It's joyous, isn't it?
• 1:36:58
  It's wonderful. Daleks going down the shaft.
• 1:37:02
  I beg your pardon, James Lock. I want more of this doctor.
• 1:37:06
  Who? Why doesn't?
• 1:37:07
  Why hasn't Doctor Who given us just Daleks being shut down a
• 1:37:10
  big hole? Albany wanted to be shafted by
• 1:37:14
  Dalek for years. Oh, look at that all the way to
• 1:37:19
  the bottom. Oh, the console blows up.
• 1:37:24
  It's wonderful. Oh no, Did you see that model
• 1:37:26
  Dalek there? Yeah, that's a little bit
• 1:37:29
  unconvincing. There are quite a few model
• 1:37:30
  Daleks, some of the ones going down the shaft of models and
• 1:37:33
  they get away with it because they're falling at speed.
• 1:37:35
  But the one that sort of melts on screen?
• 1:37:37
  And now it's like, look, every extra we could find in London
• 1:37:42
  coming over the hills, oh man, the ship's got to crash it.
• 1:37:49
  Me and my friend used to sit here going why are they
• 1:37:52
  screaming as they run out of that mine?
• 1:37:55
  Like we wouldn't scream, we'd be like, we'd just be putting all
• 1:38:01
  our energy into running. Yeah, it's it's more dramatic
• 1:38:04
  though. Maybe.
• 1:38:06
  Maybe. What's the flame that you was
• 1:38:07
  talking about that meant that you did not think this was model
• 1:38:11
  work? So we watched the the flying
• 1:38:14
  saucer begins to tilt. It's the sound design is
• 1:38:19
  fantastic. It's all over the place, isn't
• 1:38:22
  it? It's wonderful.
• 1:38:23
  And this unfortunately, it's not a terribly well focused model
• 1:38:28
  shot. They're not sure whether to
• 1:38:29
  focus on the flying saucer or the tower.
• 1:38:31
  And it, and it does it's I'm afraid it actually isn't a very
• 1:38:34
  convincing model shot, but I was completely convinced by it.
• 1:38:40
  And when it finally goes up, it's clearly a pretty small set.
• 1:38:44
  Yeah, I can, yeah. But I couldn't see it.
• 1:38:48
  I couldn't. See it even?
• 1:38:49
  Oh, that flame there? You mean in the mountain side,
• 1:38:51
  No? No, no, no, not the one on the
• 1:38:53
  mountain side. The the actual when when the
• 1:38:55
  mine itself goes up. Oh, I.
• 1:38:58
  See where you've been. Oh.
• 1:39:02
  Actually, there's a bit of an attempt to do a a volcanic
• 1:39:05
  eruption here is they don't actually draw attention to it as
• 1:39:08
  they do in in the final episode of the the TV version.
• 1:39:11
  But they they have lava rolling down that hill, don't they?
• 1:39:15
  Yeah, and you know, it is nice. And when you cut to the location
• 1:39:18
  where where there are explosions going off.
• 1:39:22
  They it just about matches it. It's not as successfully matched
• 1:39:26
  as the as the London studio sets with the London exteriors.
• 1:39:29
  I've forgotten how much sort of lava you could see.
• 1:39:32
  Actually, yeah. There's a lot, oh, now that
• 1:39:35
  this, this film has been cleaned up.
• 1:39:38
  It does help as well that we kept cutting back to them, sort
• 1:39:41
  of head down, wind going crazy. Very efficiently that and, you
• 1:39:48
  know, again, something that Doctor Who often doesn't do
• 1:39:53
  terribly well these days is the story's over.
• 1:39:55
  So that's the final scene. And we don't need a kind of a
• 1:39:59
  final scene with, with Wyler and, and the rebels and, you
• 1:40:04
  know, So what are you going to do with your life?
• 1:40:06
  And would you like to marry my granddaughter Susie?
• 1:40:08
  Because we've got the, the the we can go back to.
• 1:40:12
  The present day and finish off the story that was started the
• 1:40:15
  start. One one thing I miss, and that
• 1:40:17
  is the bit where Big Ben sounds in the original and the Doctor
• 1:40:21
  goes only the beginning or something like that.
• 1:40:24
  It's wonderful. It's just not time for reflect.
• 1:40:28
  And I think this is lovely. And we go and we go back and we
• 1:40:31
  get bark again and we're back to where we started.
• 1:40:35
  And it just, there's something about this.
• 1:40:37
  You you look at the kind of the streets that are not covered in
• 1:40:40
  rubble and you think we've been on a hell of a journey, haven't
• 1:40:43
  we? And so far, so I don't think
• 1:40:47
  we've really had much time to think about any of it.
• 1:40:51
  I I hope you noticed that Louise had her first line there for 30
• 1:40:55
  minutes. I didn't, actually, yeah.
• 1:40:58
  She said goodbye, Tom. Yeah, he gives a lovely moment,
• 1:41:05
  doesn't he, where he's monologue into camera.
• 1:41:08
  Detective Inspector Tom Campbell.
• 1:41:10
  I yeah, I love it. And it's, he's the character
• 1:41:14
  we've been following. You know if if any of the
• 1:41:17
  regulars has a fully developed character in this, there's.
• 1:41:20
  Almost something a little bit muffy about this, isn't it?
• 1:41:23
  Coming back before the crime and solving it.
• 1:41:28
  Like I say, I you wonder when they didn't do that more often,
• 1:41:31
  why they didn't think of that. But I think it's just because it
• 1:41:34
  doesn't lend itself to a televisual structure.
• 1:41:37
  Whereas for a film, it's the perfect way to end a time travel
• 1:41:39
  film. And it gives you a sort of it
• 1:41:42
  gives you your your dramatic opening and your happy ending.
• 1:41:47
  Well, see you later guys. Everyone's waving TA rah that.
• 1:41:52
  Shot of them standing in the, you know, backlit by the TARDIS.
• 1:41:54
  It's lovely as well, isn't it, you know.
• 1:41:56
  What's a shame, James, is I want more adventures with Doctor Who
• 1:41:59
  and TARDIS. I do 2.
• 1:42:06
  I know it's I know it's a sort of a, a, a fantasy to go, oh,
• 1:42:11
  what if they had done the chase? Do you think it would have been
• 1:42:15
  any good? I certainly think I would like
• 1:42:18
  to see the set pieces that they dismally realise in the chase,
• 1:42:24
  attacked with money and skill. Yeah, I mean, the point that
• 1:42:30
  someone makes in the in the documentary that's on the the
• 1:42:33
  the Blu-ray of this is that actually at least Rob Scheerman
• 1:42:36
  says they wouldn't have had to do the same set pieces as the
• 1:42:40
  chase. They could have taken that
• 1:42:41
  structure and gone OK, but we've got the opportunity to go to
• 1:42:44
  this location or we can actually go build this in a studio and it
• 1:42:48
  wouldn't have had to follow the script quite so rigidly well.
• 1:42:50
  I just imagine, you know on location having the Daleks
• 1:42:55
  attacking the Marie Celeste or they could realise that Hammer
• 1:42:59
  House of Horrors setting like a Hammer movie.
• 1:43:03
  Had Christopher Lee in it. Oh it.
• 1:43:04
  Would be real fast. Struckley Yeah, Wonderful.
• 1:43:07
  I think it would have worked. I think it's so out there that
• 1:43:10
  it probably would have finished off this lot of movies.
• 1:43:13
  Yes, I think so. Have you seen the trailer that
• 1:43:14
  someone made? It's quite old now, you know.
• 1:43:16
  Good. 15 years ago that someone faked up a trailer for the the
• 1:43:21
  third. Oh, I.
• 1:43:22
  Did. Yeah, I did.
• 1:43:24
  Yeah. It was wonderful.
• 1:43:25
  There are some very creative people out there, aren't there?
• 1:43:29
  And that's right. And and I remember watching the
• 1:43:30
  Australian going well, that would have been every bank
• 1:43:32
  holiday sorted for the rest of my life.
• 1:43:35
  But I do wonder whether I'm not sure how successful because it's
• 1:43:42
  basically the chase is a road movie.
• 1:43:45
  I'm not sure on the whole how successful kind of Rd. movie
• 1:43:51
  films of a science, science fiction in nature are.
• 1:43:55
  I think it would have been very bitty.
• 1:43:56
  I think it would have been very sectional, and it would have
• 1:43:58
  been moving from one style to another, much as as the chase
• 1:44:02
  does. But the chase has the decency to
• 1:44:05
  do it in episodes. So OK, OK.
• 1:44:08
  In this episode we're in horror, sort of horror.
• 1:44:11
  In this episode, we're in a comedy.
• 1:44:14
  In this episode, we're in a science fiction the.
• 1:44:16
  Biggest mistake I think the chase makes is it tries to
• 1:44:18
  squeeze two locations, 2 set pieces in one episode in the
• 1:44:22
  middle two. And if they just did one per
• 1:44:25
  episode, they might have had a bit of time and a bit of money.
• 1:44:29
  No, Richard Martin, we're still directing it.
• 1:44:31
  What am I talking about? It's.
• 1:44:33
  Part, part. Possibly the biggest mistake.
• 1:44:35
  I mean, I want to know what the hell Terry Nation was thinking
• 1:44:38
  it. Wasn't wasn't he at that point?
• 1:44:40
  He's a Mariners and seeing what happens when you say to
• 1:44:44
  production, you've got to build a whole new load of sets every
• 1:44:48
  week and he does it again. I mean, to be fair to him, he
• 1:44:52
  doesn't care about that. He just has to write the script
• 1:44:54
  and get paid, and then he's off to America.
• 1:44:58
  Do you remember when The Chase was released on VHS with
• 1:45:01
  Remembrance of the Daleks and. I don't want to talk about this
• 1:45:05
  because is. This a bad story for you?
• 1:45:09
  It's a bad story for you and me because you may no longer
• 1:45:12
  respect me. Oh no, I.
• 1:45:15
  Fucking love to Chase when it came out on VHS and it has
• 1:45:20
  remained one of my most watched guilty pleasure Doctor Who
• 1:45:23
  stories and I actually preferred it to Remembrance of the Daleks.
• 1:45:28
  There was something very home spun family feel about the Chase
• 1:45:34
  that just latched onto me when it came out.
• 1:45:37
  I loved it. I loved Remembrance in very
• 1:45:40
  different ways. My story is not dissimilar
• 1:45:43
  actually. That tin set, the the Dalek tin
• 1:45:47
  set, it was 2199. It was a hell of a lot of money
• 1:45:51
  and I went busking in Cheltenham High Street.
• 1:45:54
  I took my case. I said I so wanted that and the
• 1:45:58
  reason I wanted it. Of course I've told you that my,
• 1:46:01
  my Tale of woah about how this film changed my life.
• 1:46:04
  And then it wasn't on telly for years and years and years.
• 1:46:06
  Ditto Remembrance of the Daleks. And they kept releasing other
• 1:46:09
  Mccoys, they released Curse of Fenrik and then they released
• 1:46:11
  Silver Nemesis. And I, I bought Silver Nemesis
• 1:46:14
  and it was all very good and well, but the one I really
• 1:46:16
  desperately wanted was Remembrance and it came out and
• 1:46:18
  it was in this bloody £21.99 tin set, you know, a cost of
• 1:46:23
  absolute fortune. So entrepreneur that I was, I
• 1:46:28
  was like, how can I make £21.99? And in those days it was
• 1:46:34
  perfectly legal to take your musical instrument out onto
• 1:46:37
  Cheltenham High Street and play it for money.
• 1:46:41
  It wasn't quite the money spinner.
• 1:46:43
  Right In my head I thought I'm going to, I'm going to rake in
• 1:46:47
  pounds and pounds and pounds and I'll be able to buy the tin set
• 1:46:50
  and maybe some other Doctor Who videos like.
• 1:46:52
  And I went busking for one weekend and I made about £15 and
• 1:46:55
  it was really hard work. And I and I took all this money
• 1:47:00
  home and then I went out the next weekend.
• 1:47:02
  And you've got to remember, I mean, I was probably 1415 and
• 1:47:07
  I'm busking in my hometown in a place where I was seen by people
• 1:47:11
  I was at school with. This was not a, a glamorous
• 1:47:14
  thing to do. And I was much ridiculed for it.
• 1:47:17
  And I remember it was even harder the second week or
• 1:47:20
  whether people had seen me the first week and given me some
• 1:47:22
  pity money. And then the second week they
• 1:47:24
  were like, what? We'd better not give them any
• 1:47:26
  more because we're in Korea. We back them.
• 1:47:28
  Anyway. It was sort of coming trickling
• 1:47:30
  in, 20 pence here, 10 pence here.
• 1:47:33
  So the point where I was kind of like I'd done an hour and a half
• 1:47:35
  and I was starting to count. I was like, well, I'm I'm now 3
• 1:47:38
  lbs away from the from the target.
• 1:47:41
  And I literally went into WH Smith's with a violin case full
• 1:47:45
  of pennies and two very unimpressed ladies at the
• 1:47:51
  counter counted out £21.99. I mean down to the last few
• 1:47:58
  pounds were in coppers and handed over this tin set.
• 1:48:03
  So I was, it was just. And of course remembrance was
• 1:48:09
  every bit as brilliant as I remembered it.
• 1:48:11
  And then I do remember putting on the chase and it was quite
• 1:48:15
  late at night. I think I'd been, I'd had
• 1:48:17
  revision to do all maths homework or something and I'd
• 1:48:21
  sort of had enough of my parents were out to party and I was
• 1:48:23
  like, well, I'm going to watch The Chase.
• 1:48:26
  And there was, I'd not seen much Hartnell.
• 1:48:29
  I think I'd seen Part 4 of the Time Meddler when it was
• 1:48:34
  broadcast and nothing else. So I had no bar by which to
• 1:48:40
  measure it. And that first episode is the
• 1:48:43
  tireless crew being conversational and chatty and
• 1:48:46
  bubbly and Hartnell's kind of hooting and giggling.
• 1:48:49
  And then they're on an alien planet with two Suns and it's
• 1:48:53
  Sandy and there are Iridians. I absolutely loved it.
• 1:48:59
  This was just, well, this is one of the best of two stories ever.
• 1:49:03
  So pride of ownership has something to do with that.
• 1:49:06
  But I love the chase. And it would have been it would
• 1:49:13
  have been maybe kind of 4th or 5th viewing that I started to
• 1:49:17
  go, OK, this is there are a few bits of this that are are not
• 1:49:22
  terribly well put together. And and I was at an age where,
• 1:49:27
  you know, now I I watch the chase and I'm like, can I want
• 1:49:31
  what the version I saw back? I want the version with the with
• 1:49:33
  the effects that don't work. Some someone's had to temerity
• 1:49:37
  it up and make it look better. But at the time, I wanted it to
• 1:49:40
  look beautiful. And yeah, young Doctor Who fan
• 1:49:44
  trying to cope with a thing that clearly wasn't as great as I
• 1:49:46
  thought it was first time around.
• 1:49:47
  But yeah, I love the chase. Oh my God, if I didn't love you
• 1:49:50
  enough before that story, the graph that went into getting
• 1:49:53
  those two stories back in your life again.
• 1:49:56
  Weirdly enough, when the discontinuity guy came out.
• 1:50:00
  And I remember a glorious, glorious Saturday.
• 1:50:04
  You know those Saturdays where the sun is golden and you're out
• 1:50:07
  in the garden all day. And me and my friend Hazel, we
• 1:50:11
  were going through the discontinuity God, laughing at
• 1:50:13
  all the the goof sections, all the the production errors.
• 1:50:16
  And then I realised the chase. It was a really long, I said,
• 1:50:19
  oh, let's watch it and let's find all the goofs.
• 1:50:22
  So we did. And I think that was the day I
• 1:50:25
  realised I don't care. Like.
• 1:50:28
  I just don't care that this is tatty.
• 1:50:30
  I still love it, you know. It can.
• 1:50:33
  I remember taking the Chase around to some friends.
• 1:50:36
  I'm watching it with them because we we'd sort of watched
• 1:50:38
  all the, all the colour ones, we'd watched all the Mccoys and
• 1:50:42
  I remember them laughing it and they laughed at the Stupid Dalek
• 1:50:45
  and stuff. And I was there kind of gamely
• 1:50:47
  laughing with them and dying inside and thinking no, no,
• 1:50:50
  you're not taking it seriously. It's meant to be serious.
• 1:50:52
  And of course now I realise that even the the Stupid Dalek is a
• 1:50:55
  deliberate joke. It's not a very sensible 1 to,
• 1:50:59
  but no, it was intended to be funny.
• 1:51:01
  You remember when you gave your very incisive comment, This is
• 1:51:05
  how well I remember things about the Horns of Nimon for Strictly
• 1:51:10
  Come Hamster. And you said very, very
• 1:51:13
  brilliantly. It's like the sort of panto
• 1:51:16
  where the director just lets everybody get away with whatever
• 1:51:20
  they want and they're having a great laugh and nobody else is.
• 1:51:24
  I thought that could apply to the chase a little bit as well.
• 1:51:27
  Yeah. I mean, that sort of abandoned.
• 1:51:30
  Just give the actors free reign to go woo Archie.
• 1:51:36
  And of course, we are having fun when we watch the Chase because
• 1:51:38
  we don't, because we accept it for what it is now.
• 1:51:42
  But I can see you. I can sort of also see because
• 1:51:45
  Hartnell was upset, I think, but by the Chase where that it
• 1:51:48
  wasn't very good. And you can see him going, well,
• 1:51:51
  this is they're going to cancel the show.
• 1:51:53
  Well, no. The story is that Sidney Newman
• 1:51:57
  came down, watched it and actually called them in and said
• 1:52:02
  this is getting very shoddy. Be be careful with what you're
• 1:52:06
  doing. And then Hartnell went back to
• 1:52:08
  the set and, you know, bared his teeth and was going, I don't
• 1:52:12
  care what you think. Oh, I need a career.
• 1:52:14
  I need to act, you know, and lost his shit.
• 1:52:18
  But he's got a A Newman is right.
• 1:52:20
  And of course that, you know, it's it's fodder for any of the
• 1:52:23
  contemporary reviewers going Doctor Who isn't as good as it
• 1:52:25
  was a year ago or two years ago, which is what reviewers have
• 1:52:28
  been doing since Doctor Who started.
• 1:52:31
  Well, I'll tell you what, It might have been a really bad
• 1:52:34
  movie. The third, Is it Amicus?
• 1:52:37
  Is that what the company's called?
• 1:52:39
  Yeah. That, you know, had they done
• 1:52:40
  the chase, but I think it would have been a thrill ride and.
• 1:52:45
  Absolutely, yeah. They would have had fun with it
• 1:52:47
  and they could have called. I mean, it's a shame that this,
• 1:52:53
  the second film, didn't do as well.
• 1:52:56
  And it and really it kind of shows you how brief that kind of
• 1:52:59
  darling period was. And the first film came out at
• 1:53:02
  just. The right time, that wave just
• 1:53:05
  when they needed to, didn't they?
• 1:53:06
  I think it was in the top ten films of that year.
• 1:53:09
  Doctor Daleks. And it's a shame also that they
• 1:53:13
  that they, I, I feel like from what people have said, that it
• 1:53:16
  never quite got the promotion that it could have done.
• 1:53:19
  They could have put a lot more weight behind the second film,
• 1:53:21
  particularly in America. And I think it would have
• 1:53:23
  translated well. I think there's an off.
• 1:53:25
  It's a very highly appealing film for for a family audience.
• 1:53:29
  I'd show this film to kids any day because I know that, you
• 1:53:32
  know all the stuff in ruin. London would go down a storm.
• 1:53:35
  I certainly think Sugar Puffs put a bit of weight behind
• 1:53:38
  advertising the film. Certainly 3,000,000 packets went
• 1:53:42
  out with Daleks in them. All right, I.
• 1:53:44
  Mean as soon as we finish this I want to go and eat a bowl of
• 1:53:47
  sugar puffs and a plate of rainbow drops.
• 1:53:51
  Can I tell you something very cute?
• 1:53:53
  When Mark used to work at a very small theatre up in Cardiff
• 1:53:58
  called The Gate, and he was the one that sort of run the thing
• 1:54:01
  and he used to do movie nights, right?
• 1:54:03
  And one night he thought, I'm going to chance it, I'm going to
• 1:54:06
  do a movie night of Daleks invasion Earth 2150 AD.
• 1:54:09
  And he dressed it up a bit like that, you know, that crazy
• 1:54:12
  TARDIS in the room, put it on. He said that there was something
• 1:54:16
  about eight people that came to it, but he put out bowls of
• 1:54:19
  sugar puffs for people to wait and nobody had a fucking clue
• 1:54:23
  why they're with these boxes. Sugar puffs everywhere.
• 1:54:26
  Bless his heart. You can't blame him for trying.
• 1:54:30
  Well, look. Jack But I mean, look at look at
• 1:54:34
  what the Daleks look like in that film.
• 1:54:38
  They are in in every kind of frame that they are in, which is
• 1:54:43
  an awful lot of the film. They they jar with the
• 1:54:47
  surroundings. There's something about the
• 1:54:49
  placing them in the a setting that in all other ways could
• 1:54:54
  have come out of, you know, any film about the resistance or,
• 1:54:58
  you know, many, many war-torn city, apocalyptic, dystopian,
• 1:55:06
  whatever. You know, it's a lot of this
• 1:55:08
  film, like, like we've been saying all the way through is is
• 1:55:10
  built on tropes, but you stick the Daleks in there and this and
• 1:55:13
  they just work. They ping in a way that, as we
• 1:55:17
  keep saying, I, I don't think has been attempted often enough
• 1:55:21
  by the the TV series that that brought them to us do.
• 1:55:24
  You know, I think, I think maybe the one time where they got
• 1:55:28
  close was the Stolen Earth, where you have Daleks on the
• 1:55:32
  streets there at night and Burner Cribbins, to be fair.
• 1:55:36
  Yeah, But yeah. But in terms of realising the
• 1:55:40
  Daleks in pure like 60s glory colour and, you know, on film in
• 1:55:48
  beautiful, beautifully like directed scenes, Oh my God, it's
• 1:55:51
  just gorgeous. I don't know that in the style
• 1:55:54
  on Earth, you get quite the same sense of struggle against them.
• 1:56:00
  They're they're almost too too impassive, too indestructible.
• 1:56:07
  Whereas when you see these these rebels fighting back in this
• 1:56:10
  film and, and chucking, you know, bricks at them and mostly
• 1:56:13
  a futile, I think. Yeah.
• 1:56:14
  And you see the ground littered with bodies.
• 1:56:16
  I, I I'm not sure they can do that now.
• 1:56:18
  I'm not sure they were dead. Many dead bodies in an episode
• 1:56:22
  of Doctor. Who certainly wouldn't have all
• 1:56:23
  the knives and whips and things out on BBC and all the TV now?
• 1:56:28
  And I think as well Rusty Davis is doing something very
• 1:56:30
  different there, obviously mashing together all the shows
• 1:56:32
  he created and going for a far more characterful tale.
• 1:56:36
  I think it's there. It's more effective when you see
• 1:56:39
  the impact on the characters in the pre title sequence, Sarah
• 1:56:42
  Jane, Jack and everybody else, just when they hear the Dalek
• 1:56:45
  voice far more than actually the visuals of seeing them.
• 1:56:50
  Well, look James, even though we have talked after the movie now,
• 1:56:55
  we still do have to choose our three fabulous things to
• 1:56:58
  recommend this movie. Let's start with you.
• 1:57:00
  Oh well. I'm going to have this one
• 1:57:02
  before you do I my one of my reasons is that the Daleks have
• 1:57:07
  never looked better. Well then I'm going to nick this
• 1:57:12
  one before you do. And that is the score, which I'm
• 1:57:17
  never ever convinced it's a good score, but it is so ingrained in
• 1:57:21
  my head as exciting music. I could imagine watching this
• 1:57:26
  with somebody now and then just going, what is this so jarring?
• 1:57:30
  What is going on? The action and and the jazz
• 1:57:33
  music. But I love it.
• 1:57:35
  Like you said, it is a little discordant.
• 1:57:38
  It is very in your face, but it's exciting.
• 1:57:42
  It's so exciting and pacey it. Is a good.
• 1:57:47
  It's not a good score because it's not an it's not really a
• 1:57:50
  very consistent score, but I do think it's a good score for this
• 1:57:54
  film. I struggle to imagine this film
• 1:57:58
  with the score taking it much more seriously than this because
• 1:58:01
  as I say, it's it's so dissonant in places.
• 1:58:06
  It's a really aggressive score and I think it needs to be.
• 1:58:08
  But I sort of thank goodness that it's also, it knows not to
• 1:58:12
  take it seriously all the way through.
• 1:58:14
  It knows to give the Daleks that sense of swagger, but I also
• 1:58:19
  can't imagine this film with a, a more generic score like the
• 1:58:22
  first dialect film has. And certainly I mean, I, I, I
• 1:58:27
  now own these scores on on vinyl.
• 1:58:29
  It's the the, the first one that I play frequently.
• 1:58:34
  The second one is not on my turntable very often because
• 1:58:38
  it's not really very easy to listen to, but I like it for
• 1:58:43
  that. I like it for actually being
• 1:58:45
  more daring and for making some decisions that I think a lot of
• 1:58:49
  composers wouldn't make, but which which actually do
• 1:58:52
  strangely work. What I will say is every time I
• 1:58:56
  see people marching in the back of my head, all I can hear is
• 1:59:05
  this stuff. It is etched into my mind.
• 1:59:09
  And then when you get a bowl of sugar puffs, does it go yes?
• 1:59:17
  And every time I see a Dalek on the street I hear doodle.
• 1:59:19
  Learn learn, learn. Anyway, sorry, back to you.
• 1:59:25
  I would like my second point to be the set design.
• 1:59:30
  Mostly thinking about the exterior sets, the the ruins,
• 1:59:35
  but there's something really interesting about the interiors,
• 1:59:40
  cramps and and claustrophobic though they are.
• 1:59:43
  I think that this the the film has a real visual style and it's
• 1:59:47
  hugely appealing and very, like we've said throughout, very
• 1:59:52
  effectively realised, beautifully lit and and so
• 1:59:56
  evocative of AI mean. This was one of the things that
• 2:00:00
  I thought in my head, I thought couldn't possibly live up to my
• 2:00:03
  memory when I hadn't seen this film for years in my head.
• 2:00:05
  It was this dusty. Apocalyptic future London in
• 2:00:10
  ruins. I thought, you know, probably
• 2:00:12
  it's going to look a little bit crap, but it absolutely doesn't.
• 2:00:17
  As I said, I was convinced until very recently that those, you
• 2:00:22
  know, destroyed London exteriors were exteriors.
• 2:00:25
  So color me impressed. I think there is a huge danger
• 2:00:31
  with having young actors in any production and I think it's
• 2:00:37
  something that Dogs Who frequently comes a cropper with.
• 2:00:40
  I mean, I know Caroline Ford was older, but she's dismal with
• 2:00:43
  Susan. You go look at the Sleep of
• 2:00:45
  Moffett era. The brood of the damned are all
• 2:00:47
  the excuse you need to never work with children in Doctor
• 2:00:50
  Who. Roberta Toby acquits herself so,
• 2:00:53
  so well in this. She holds her own playing Susan.
• 2:00:57
  She has lovely rapport with Peter Cushing.
• 2:00:59
  She has a lovely rapport with Andrew Kerr.
• 2:01:02
  I kind of wish she was playing Susan in the TV show.
• 2:01:07
  Yeah, she's great. And as I say, I think she's a
• 2:01:12
  was a very bright child looking at, you know, she gifted the
• 2:01:17
  opportunity to work with some brilliant actors and taking it
• 2:01:20
  all in. Because I also think the
• 2:01:21
  performance in this film is a step up from the one in the
• 2:01:23
  first film, which is a little bit more mannered and a little
• 2:01:26
  bit more stage school. It's a Lily in Philadelphia,
• 2:01:29
  James. Oh, it's a Lillian Philadelphia
• 2:01:32
  vision. Yeah, great choice.
• 2:01:36
  I I like Susan. I tempted to choose Louise's
• 2:01:41
  costume for. No, I won't.
• 2:01:45
  I do like it. Or Jill Curzon.
• 2:01:48
  My third thing is Philip Maddock, who is on screen for a
• 2:01:54
  very short amount of time and is the most unpleasant thing in the
• 2:01:58
  film. And it's a it's a superb
• 2:02:02
  performance and it's the first of many Doctor Who performances
• 2:02:06
  and he's always brilliant. But in this he, he kind of shows
• 2:02:11
  all of that potential and, and actually kind of gives, I would
• 2:02:14
  say weirdly, one of his most memorable performances.
• 2:02:17
  Even though, you know, even though he's absolutely front and
• 2:02:22
  centre of the brain of Morbius, he manages to make that much of
• 2:02:27
  an impression on screen for a a matter of minutes.
• 2:02:30
  Yeah, he's you Never, you can never take your eyes off him,
• 2:02:33
  can you? Whatever role he's playing, even
• 2:02:37
  when he turned up in Dad's Army, I'm watching him rather than the
• 2:02:40
  regulars. Then my last choice is going to
• 2:02:43
  be the director, Gordon Fleming, who I think, like you said with
• 2:02:49
  Roberts Tovey, I think the direction of the first movie is
• 2:02:52
  good, but this is a step up in every single respect in, in how
• 2:02:58
  the film is paced, how the set pieces are realised, how the
• 2:03:02
  Daleks are short. It's just the sort of the the
• 2:03:05
  movement of the movie, the sense of place, all the locations, all
• 2:03:11
  of it. Yeah, I just, I think he's put
• 2:03:12
  together a very stylish, really impressive bit of work that if
• 2:03:18
  some of the effects don't hold up today, I'm not sure you can
• 2:03:21
  really fault the direction. No, I don't think you can.
• 2:03:25
  I, I think it's a really confident bit of action
• 2:03:29
  direction, direction as well, which you, you wouldn't
• 2:03:31
  necessarily watching the first film think that he'd be capable
• 2:03:34
  of because there's not a huge amount of action in the first
• 2:03:36
  film. And the way he, the confidence
• 2:03:40
  with which he moves the camera as you, as you kept pointing
• 2:03:42
  out, it's got a a fluidity to it that is really impressive and
• 2:03:47
  stands up to this day. Well, I think that's a a good
• 2:03:51
  place to leave Daleks Invasion 2150 AD What I am going to say
• 2:03:56
  to you is how much of A joy it is to talk about Doctor Who with
• 2:04:00
  you, whether it's a movie, a television show or a book.
• 2:04:04
  And I'm going to ask you, unfortunately, to choose now
• 2:04:09
  what television escapade you would like to discuss next.
• 2:04:12
  Oh, we're going to have really fun.
• 2:04:14
  Oh. Where are we going?
• 2:04:16
  Oh well, I'll tell you what Joe, next time I will not be so
• 2:04:20
  lenient when we go and watch the Androids of Tara.
• 2:04:27
  Oh wonderful choice. Have you been to Leeds Castle?
• 2:04:31
  I have, yes. Have you?
• 2:04:32
  Played the Androids of Tara while you were there.
• 2:04:34
  Oh. Yeah, I haven't.
• 2:04:37
  I have pretended to be canine in the ball rushes.
• 2:04:39
  Oh, did you? I stormed the castle.
• 2:04:42
  There's a wonderful behind the scenes tail the the Fed the head
• 2:04:45
  of the guards tails because the family were in residence while
• 2:04:48
  they were shooting and they said, look, we can't give you
• 2:04:51
  any extras. So you've got to look as if
• 2:04:53
  there's a whole army of you storming the castle and you've
• 2:04:57
  got to do it very quietly because they're asleep just over
• 2:05:01
  there. The family that owns the
• 2:05:02
  property, It's like, Gee, how am I going to act this?
• 2:05:07
  They tested these people to their limit.
• 2:05:09
  What an amazing choice. I don't even remember we agreed
• 2:05:11
  on that, but let's do it. Ones on my list.
• 2:05:14
  I, I, yes, I, I, I did mention it many moons ago.
• 2:05:18
  I hope it's still free. I mean, I'm, I'm not treading on
• 2:05:20
  another 99 people's time. Don't worry.
• 2:05:23
  I mean, I covered it a long, long time ago, but I'm sort of
• 2:05:26
  doing the rounds again now and doing duplicates of lots of
• 2:05:28
  stories because, well, I just like doing this.
• 2:05:31
  Yeah, great choice. Key to time as well.
• 2:05:33
  So much to talk about. It's kind of that that whole
• 2:05:36
  season. Well, wonderful.
• 2:05:38
  And you and I, we're doing our book club soon as well, aren't
• 2:05:42
  we? Yeah, of a very unusual choice
• 2:05:46
  that you've chosen. I'm halfway through the book now
• 2:05:47
  and spoiler alert, I'm loving it.
• 2:05:50
  OK, well, you're, you're further than I am.
• 2:05:52
  Oh. OK, well I'll shut my mouth
• 2:05:53
  then. Well then, instead of being very
• 2:05:56
  indulgent and doing the diary, I suppose I should just say thank
• 2:06:00
  you very much for your time today.
• 2:06:02
  It has been an absolute pleasure.
• 2:06:04
  Always a pleasure and and not only to talk to you, but to
• 2:06:07
  revisit that film, which holds a very special place in my heart.
• 2:06:11
  I do wonder if we both did regress there to five year olds
• 2:06:14
  for a little while. Possibly.
• 2:06:16
  I'm going to go and hold myself some sugar puffs now.
• 2:06:18
  And I'm going to read some more strawberry laces.
• 2:06:28
  The the,
• 2:08:01
  the the the
• 2:08:59
  the, the, the,
• 2:10:05
  the the.