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White Feminism vs. Intersectional Feminism: Who Gets Left Behind? · Queer 101 with Peppermint

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_06: White feminism has this habit of talking about how white women struggle under patriarchy, but rarely how they have been dominant over all people of color, especially black and indigenous women.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_06: So let's talk about it.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: They thought that if black women spoke about their experiences with forced hysterectomies, like the one Fannie Lou Hamer had, that it would be harmful and distract from the message of the larger pro-choice movement.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like really sucky to live in a world where you people rely on you so much and you just don't have rights.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Women deserve to be treated better.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes! Thank you.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, it sucks when you are being bogged down by both the patriarchy and the white supremacist values that built this country.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Did I ask you to talk?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I should hey everybody, welcome back to Queer 101, the podcast, where we talk about any and everything under the sun, including queer art, queer culture, queer literature, and whatever I want.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now I am Peppermint, and we are back for our second season, second episode, newly released season two, and I am so excited.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and a quick word for anyone who didn't watch last week or listen to last week's show, uh, I'm changing things up a bit for season two.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm gonna be focused more on topics and guests that are really, really meaningful to me as opposed to some more literary um focuses.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I know I know it sounds so very serious.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and some of it definitely is, okay, because we are in the times that we are in.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to have a fun, I want to have fun along the way too.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one of the things that I love about having a podcast is that it gives me the opportunity and the platform to combine all of the aspects of me, actress, entertainer, activist, and and I can promise you this this show will never be boring, darling.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So today is something that has been on my mind for quite a while.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen it bubbling up, and actually, it may have never gone away.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've just been noticing it maybe more and more recently.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I something that we'll call white feminism, white liberal feminism.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, can I please have all the white women to the front?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Immediately.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh because we're about to go in.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what is white liberal feminism?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I don't know if that is like, you know, I'm I'm not that storied on this.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is something that I'm suspicious of.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is something that I'm noticing in a uh uh an aspect of feminism and an aspect of culture and politics that I think is worthy of being talked about, something that I'm understanding uh in more clear ways, sort of for the first time.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't necessarily mean I'm a scholar on it, and I haven't brought you a whole lot.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: As we go, well, in today's episode, and you might see some titty, in today's episode, I am definitely going to explain my take on this and the impacts and sort of what my observations are.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll also share some videos um along the way, some things that we'll put up that I think will be um helpful.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I you know what?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't we just start right off the bat?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a video uh from social media.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: This demonstrates what I'm talking about exactly.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_06: White feminism has this habit of talking about how white women struggle under patriarchy, but rarely how they have been dominant over all people of color, especially black and indigenous women.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_06: So let's talk about it.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_06: So Dr.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_06: Jones Rogers is one historian who showed that white women were not just like passive bystanders to slavery.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_06: In some southern markets, they were like 40% of all slave owners.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_06: Even after emancipation, white women were constantly exploiting the labor of the domestic labor, especially of black women, and this extended throughout Jim Crow, which we know lasted until 1965.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_06: And even when the 19th Amendment passed in 1920, which allowed women to vote, it excluded black women, and the suffragettes were notorious for denying black women um inclusion and their advocacy and activism.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_06: I don't even need to remind you of all the horrific images we have seared into our minds of white women protesting Ruby Bridges, for example, who's still alive.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_06: She's young, she's like in her 60s.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_06: She was one of the first black girls to integrate an all-white school in the South, and there are pictures of white women carrying baby dolls and coffins threatening her for integrating their schools.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_06: Now, this isn't to cause um division, but I think that if we truly want unity, then we have to like be honest about some things.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_06: And one of those tensions that we have to name is white women, naming how they suffer under patriarchy, but never their whiteness, their white privilege, white supremacy, and how they have been able to benefit from both patriarchy and white supremacy to the detriment of black, indigenous, and other people of color within and beyond the United States.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_06: Only talking about patriarchy, but never your whiteness, is inevitably going to reproduce the system of patriarchy, but just with white women on the top.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_06: And this is why I can relay Crenshaw's um intersectionality framework is so important, because without it we inevitably sort of reproduce the systems that we say that we want to abolish.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_06: And white women's liberation is not a promotion within the system of white supremacy.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_06: If we actually care about everybody's ability to get free, including men of color, who, again, y'all used to own, um, you have to be able to address the ways that you have benefited from the system too.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so there you have it.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: That in a nutshell can sum up white liberal feminism to an extent.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: It like now you can see like how it plays out in the real world.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but let me, I guess, in my own words, explain what I mean.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: White liberal feminism basically it focuses on the generalities of uh how can I put this?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: The style of it is to focus and fight for women in general, without understanding.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let me back it up.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Feminism is the belief that women should have equal rights, essentially.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And fighting for for those rights is included in the feminist movement.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in order to do that, you can't just say give equal rights for women, equal rights for women, that's it.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: You have to understand what do you mean by that?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Pay inequity, uh, pay inequality, uh, you know, violence uh from you know, sexual violence, uh sexual intimidation in the workplace, uh, power differential dynamic, um, you know, uh reproductive access and care, you know, uh parenting rights, paid leave, you know, all these different things.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh fighting for, you know, um free childcare is, I believe, as much a part of feminism as it as it is and should be a part of liberalism.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm you might see me roll my eyes more than once when I mention the word liberal.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so uh so yeah, so those are that's general.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people who understand feminism and even support feminism would agree with that very loose sort of description of feminism.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: But in that description, as it's important to understand what impacts women in order to fight for what women need in that environment, in this patriarchal environment, like saying equal rights for women is if that's all you say, and you don't say women deserve fair pay in the workplace, then we are ignoring a patriarchal system that usually pays men by default more than women, earning a fraction of what men earn on the dollar.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: You could just say, I believe in equal rights for women, but if you're not, if you're not willing to make sure that women have equal pay, then you're then what then it's not addressing some of the things, some of the reasons why we need feminism to begin with, right?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's about reversing the inequality.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's and it's about noticing what it is about the structure, in this case, the structure of patriarchy, that disproportionately harms women in general.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: But we need to have that same view on different frameworks.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: So feminism, white feminism, is the type of feminism that stops there, but it doesn't acknowledge or examine other frameworks or systems of oppression or systems of control that disproportionately affect certain types of women.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: So for instance, you know, I mean the one that comes up right away is um is black women, and when we're talking about like white liberal feminism, a feminism that doesn't understand or fight for the needs of black women, is it really feminism?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: We can ask that question.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And in order, what does it mean to fight for the needs of black women?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, black women like white women and all women like women have essentially the same basic needs, but the way that they are um impacted by the systems of power and control are sometimes identical and a lot of times they're different.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, black women deal with you know misogyny and racism, uh both of those things all the usually at the same time.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, since they are, since these women are black, 100% always at the same time.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that we call misogynoir, massage, massage noir.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is it going this way?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that yeah, so it's um massage noir, or maybe it's going this way.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Massage noir.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: There we go, we'll spell it for you.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but white liberal feminism doesn't acknowledge, can't see, doesn't see color.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: White liberal feminism doesn't see race.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's that version that we all heard in the 90s, right?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see color.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a problem there.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we so that's where I am now is just sort of understanding that white liberal feminism, um if it's white liberal feminism, then it's not true truly feminist.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't truly have it's not truly humanist and populist.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh white liberal feminism, uh, we've seen a pattern that it favors capital, it favors rich white men.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um white liberal feminism is the feminism that's like you have to hire why is this board all men?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: You need you can't have all men on the board.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Just hire one woman, just hire me.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then now you have ten white men and one white woman, and the company still pays women less, but she got her bonus, that's white liberal feminism.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that couldn't be demonstrated in any more clear way than um well, I'll give some examples as we go, but essentially uh a type of feminism, the dictionary version, a type of act uh type of feminism that you know really caters to white, cisgender, middle and upper class women, uh you know, giving them equal access to existing systems of power without necessarily changing or challenging the systems of racism, capitalism, colonialism, transphobia, ableism, or class inequity built into those systems.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's the definition.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and how it can show up, I just demonstrated one way.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: You watch that one video, but it basically treats women as one universal group while ignoring how race, class, gender, identity, sexuality, disability, immigration status, poverty uh shape women's lives every single day.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if if if you work for a big multi-million dollar company and you're the CEO of the boardroom and you have to take care of your child and bring your child to work, if you get paid 100 and it and the child care costs 100, then you can afford to bring your child to the work and put the your child in the daycare that's at your office.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: That is a type of feminism.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: But if the employees, the women who work there, don't get paid 100, they get paid 50, but the daycare in the workplace costs 100, then you are not understanding you ain't doing it.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: It ain't doing it for those women.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: We can't leave those women out.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that those women are still dealing with the inability to earn a livable wage and also take care of their have childcare and take care of their um children with that wage.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the feminism that happened and to get that C that female CEO in place isn't doing anything for the female employees or the women employees that are still unable to pay their bills or have their child care or fee afford the daycare at the job.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's you know, that's one way that it does.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it focuses on this notion of representation over redistribution.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: What do we mean by that?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that the I'm I got some we got a version of this coming from my beautiful black women coming up soon.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: But this is something, this is a system, uh representation over redistribution.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it wants inclusion in existing institutions rather than transforming those institutions.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you know, if you think of a system that's really harmful, the best example of this, and and and I don't I don't mean that this would be a good example because I think I this is really a tragic story, but um a very clear example of this was one that I gave with the pay and the women employees not being able to afford the childcare, but the boss could.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Another example of this would be if the um if the this is hypothetical, I won't even be specific.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I will.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: If the president of the of Cornell University had been a woman, which they weren't, but let's just say, but they have, so like their women have headed universities, so let's suspend our disbelief and for this argument, if the president of the University of Corn Cornell University had been a woman, but also at the same time those horrible rapes had happened under her watch and still reacted in the same way that they did.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't know a lot about that case, so I'm using that as an example, a hypothetical example.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's still more to come out, and we need to advocate for the victims in the situation, the victim in this situation.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: My point is that if the university turned a blind eye and still never changed its behavior with regards to violence against women, even uh if it didn't change its its stance on those things while being run by a man as compared to being run by a woman, and nothing changed, then that is an example of transforming or um sorry, of of having representation within those institutions without really doing anything to change the difference.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's no difference, it's just a different per a face on it.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's a a saying um uh amongst the community, um, black faces in high places will not save you.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, that's uh a key.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I'll be saying that again on another episode.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is uh um it's a quote from Rua Benjamin, sociologist and professor, um during the uh during her address at Spelman Founders Day in April 2024.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like it it came um I something I mean it oh yeah I feel like it is before that.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's Rua Benjamin, so we're we're gonna give her her credit.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um anyway, uh so not transfer uh a real institutional transformation would be making sure that that college, that that in that educational institution, that institution of higher learning, really did change its stances on gender uh, you know, sex violence and sexual violence, gender uh, you know, um discrimination and things like that.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: But if it never changes any of its stances or policies, then then what has really changed other than the face on the poster?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um using languages like girl boss and lean in or breaking the glass ceiling without asking who's cleaning the glass, darling.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's a real one.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a chance to go, I talked about this in a recent video, I had a chance to go to um be invited to Gloria Steinem, who is the very notable um woman who recently passed uh this past year, uh, who was at the forefront of second wave feminism uh in the 70s and through throughout the 80s, uh late 60s through the 70s and 80s, and and beyond, obviously.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and but is an iconic figure and someone who was really instrumental in um providing the type of uh talking points and and and uh positions that were even useful for men who wanted who wanted to adopt feminism and and incorporate feminism and feminist practices and policies and thought into their daily lives and into their sort of um political outlook and to their worldview.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so she was she is a figure undeniable.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: She was also a CIA agent, a CIA asset andor agent, um, and fought very hard and worked very hard to dismantle dis um and contribute to the continued McCarthyism that turned against uh the Black Panthers um in the 60s and 70s and using her connection as a CIA asset and operative to really come hard against people who were anti who were communists and anti-capitalists and anti-war.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so, you know, there's a little bit of a conversation to be had.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't know a whole lot about Gloria Steinem, but my point is that I was invited to her house.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought it was really, really interesting.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: I got a chance to sit in on a conversation circle, which is something that she had a lot, um, at her house.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: They were her home would be, she would offer up her home to be used as a sort of community space for people, women, um, and also some men, especially CIA agents, to come in and talk about the issues of the day and sort of make a plan for like what they were gonna do.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was invited in 2026 or 25, whatever, 2020, whatever recently, invited to be sit with her at her house.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it was something that I'll never forget because I got a chance to talk with uh several other women um as we talked about reproductive justice and access.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the primary person impacted and the primary people impacted are obviously people who who can't who who can reproduce within their own bodies, you know, and give birth.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh mostly women.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I do believe trans men are also in in involved in that and included in that conversation in that group.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Trans men, if they're able to give birth and get pregnant and then they are involved in reproduction as well.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but even beyond that, trans women are also involved in reproduction.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: There are many trans women who decide to, you know, freeze their DNA or store their DNA or utilize the natural systems um to participate in reproduction um and become parents, whether they biologically are parents or not.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: That it's all in the world of parenting, right?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this was focused mostly on cis women who the cis women that were there who were excellent.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And those cis women were able to, in that regard, open up the the iris and invite me in as a woman who doesn't experience the same journey, uh reproductive journey that that these women experience at all.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't I could never understand it.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: However, um, well I can't say I can't understand it, but I would never understand what it feels like to have those experiences.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but by the same token, they understood that my fight for gender-affirming care is a fight for bodily autonomy.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And a fight for bodily autonomy is exactly what the fight for reproductive justice and access and care and rights are.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is where those two things intersect or converge, and that is a more inclusive version of feminism.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Feminism by disgraced, scandalistic children's books writers from England.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of feminism that, you know, she's up tweeting all hours of the night about trans people, talking about how she's here to protect women, but has nothing to say about the sexual violence that happens to women uh, you know, at the hands of men in her country or our country.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Has nothing to say about the fact that women are being disenfranchised at the voting booth, has nothing to say about the fact I don't even think she's had much to say about Roe v.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wade and uh the overturning of uh, you know, uh Dobbs decision.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I, you know, that what kind of feminism is that what good is that, you know, and so that is essentially where that's essentially where I am.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the the fight for um you know Gloria Steinem really comes on the heels of the women's suffrage movement, voting.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and women wouldn't have not the the the ability to vote, gaining and exercising and utilizing their rights to vote um was hard fought, and there was a lot of resistance, and it took a lot of people to participate.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Even men participated in assisting.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: But women were at the forefront, obviously, and there were all types of women.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: There were women from, you know, who were newly immigrated, there were women who were, you know, of all shapes, sizes, ages, colors, races, um, who were involved in the fight for equality, for uh suffrage, the right to vote.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of women were at the forefront.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And to be very clear, according to many men, according to the lore, there were several philosophies on how to achieve that.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: One way, and this is the age-old conversation when it comes to political change, one philosophy was let's just be polite and write some letters, and eventually they will come around and see that that we are right and they should give us our rights.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other one is bitch, let's go fucking burn it down.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let's fucking rally, let's beat it, let's get violent.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let what do we got to do?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: What do we do have to do it?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I would argue that for myself, if I were constantly, and I do believe that both of those strategies are important to be ready to use, if not use all the time with regards to activism.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: But one of those strategies is centers the fear of losing what they have and not wanting to rock the boat or lose what they have.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the other one has nothing to lose, so it will go all the way.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what we saw with women's suffrage.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: There were black women at the very front of that fight who fought and fought and even provided the strategy that was also simultaneously part of the strategy that had been used amongst the black community throughout uh slavery, throughout uh Jim Crow and Reconstruction.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, well, Reconstruction, obviously, this was like they were simultaneous with Jim Crow um voting.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but anyway, uh, you know, black people obviously were at the forefront of that.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then also the black women were instrumental in coming up with the strategies and the plans and all the different things, and even the the physical body to to fight for the right for women to be able to exercise their vote.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, when it happened, that vote, they said women can vote, but they there's also a second portion that said black people, male or female, can't vote.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: So white women were able to, you know, benefit from the um white women were able to benefit from the from the work, the labor that the black women had also put in, had contributed to the women's suffrage movement, but did not get any of the benefits.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: The black women didn't.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the white women got all of the benefits and did a portion of that work, a great deal, but like didn't do all of the work.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: They did they shared that work with other people.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: So they did a portion of that work and they got all of the gains for it.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that is what ends up happening under white liberal feminism.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to show you this video here.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this is from Lonnie Lenz Chapel.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let's take a look and then we'll be back to discuss.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: The world is changing so rapidly, and I want to be part of the generation that changes things for good because we need it.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is not lip service, this is not virtue signaling.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Six months later.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: How can these girls tour, write, perform, interview, sleep, eat, and eat, and work out, and like how how can they do it all and lead a team and be a boss and pay people and like and be like so politically educated.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's exhausting.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it's also impossible.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: Also, why the f are you looking to me for some political answer?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: You think I have the f answer?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: Or you're like, listen to my song, bitch, and turn it up.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm a pop star.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I had the answers.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: I wish the president was a pop star, but she's not.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_05: No one is expecting Chapel Roan to be the leader at the next Stonewall riot or to be the leader of the free world.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like when people don't know what stonewall is.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_04: Why don't you tell why don't you tell everybody what that is?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_04: That was fighting for gay rights, and people were killed.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_04: They were killed at Stonewall.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody was killed.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_05: But is it too much to ask that someone stay up to date on the causes they claim to care about and use their platform to bring awareness?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_05: She literally said that working out, eating, and doing her job makes it impossible for her to stay up to date on politics when the average person has to do all these things and they don't have wealth to shield them from real life consequences.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_05: For a lot of white women, activism is a trend and a phase.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_05: Not a long-term commitment to learning, growth, and making lasting change for those who need it.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_05: If they aren't being centered, praised, and coddled for doing the bare minimum, it's not worth their time.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_05: It seems like no matter what these women do, they just can't win.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_05: But that's the problem.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_05: There is no winning.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_05: There shouldn't be a victory or any personal gain besides knowing that you fought for what you believe is right, right?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so there you have um, you know, I think I think I laid out a good case for for the um at least the recognition of white liberal feminism.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, the future is female.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is important to believe all women and listen to women's, you know, stories, especially around sexual violence.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is important to uh dismantle the patriarchy.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is important to acknowledge um, you know, or at least get um invest in diversity uh and bringing women into positions of power.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: But having a woman in a position of power is not alone what it's not the per having a woman in a position of power just for symbolism's sake is not really what's going to save and change everyone's minds.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: It will provide an example, but I'm more interested in having someone in power who will use that power to change the system to benefit the women who are impact disproportionately impacted by that power currently, whether that's a man or a woman.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying I don't want a woman to be in charge, but I would much rather have a man who says, I want all women to have paid family leave.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want all women to have this right and that right and this right, and we're gonna do it and we're gonna change it.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm putting money here.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the money for that, we're doing it, we're gonna change that law, get rid of this thing, we're gonna put women in position of power everywhere here, and we're gonna change it and make it happen.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: That is a plan.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: But just having a woman, I'd rather vote put that person in rather than just putting a woman in who's gonna keep everything the same.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's that gonna do?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: That being said, I have something to say.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I have something to say.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, y'all know I have fought and will fight, and the I whether you know it or not, it doesn't matter.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: I am so dedicated, maybe to a vault, for uh to advocating for queer rights, trans rights, black people's rights, and beyond.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: And part of that's because I'm a part of those groups.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't, I know that it doesn't just stop at me.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I am a hundred percent I think representation, I have advocated for representation, and I still do.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: I celebrate representation every single time because I think it's really important.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: But we have got to stop falling for the trick that the trap that only asks us for we have needs, especially the more futuristic our world gets and the older we get as human beings, the more needs we have.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: We have needs that are have have to do with our health, with the atmosphere, with the this, with the that, with work, with desires, with all we got needs.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: We got lots of humans are complex.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: So when we have the opportunity to put in place something that's going to help us serve our needs, then it really needs to do that.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: We cannot keep falling for the trick that asks us or convinces us to stop advocating for our needs just because there was representation.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Representation alone is not going to be the thing that saves us.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: If it were, having Clarence Thomas on the on the bench as the Supreme Court would have meant black people would have never had to worry about having any fighting for any rights in the future ever again.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Having Barack Obama would have meant the same thing.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, just because uh female justice got on the Supreme Court, that would have meant women never had to then abortion access is going to be safe forever.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: One of them voted it down.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so we we we know that there are people like John Fetterman's and the you know John Joe Manchin's and the Kirsten Cinemas in terms of politically in Congress, people who have been painted as moderate Democrats but vote vote with the Republicans seemingly a majority of the time.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly when it counts.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to stop relying for that.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: We have to stop relying on that and falling for that.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really important that the version of ourselves that um gets what we want, gets our human rights met, you know, understands that we have more in common with people who are who we don't think are like us.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: As long as they're human beings, unless they're come from another planet literally, I don't mean acting like another planet, but actually are from another planet, unless it's some alien that comes down from Mars, they're a person, a human being, and they have the same needs that we want.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And they the Martians might have the same needs too, maybe.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: The point is that yes, I want to fight for gender-affirming care.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Though gender-affirming care and the ability to have an accurate identification are two of the deal breakers that could send me into a spiral tail spiral tailspin of despair, losing access to those things.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: But the the only thing that would get me back up from that is fighting for equal access to housing and Medicare for all and basically those two things, essentially.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: There are others, but like those, those two, I would if I would probably vote for someone who said, and that I know I'm gonna catch flag for this, but I would probably vote for a politician who said, Listen, I want my politician to be very pro-trans, but I would much I would probably sooner vote in this day and age, I would probably sooner vote for a politician that says, I hate trans people.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I want all of you to have every single ounce of healthcare, and I think that your healthcare should cover every single thing that you need.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I all want you to have housing and I want you to be safe from discrimination.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna put laws in place that keep you safe.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want all trans people to be able to express themselves the way that they want, to legally have their passports the way that they want.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want them to be able to travel without discrimination.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: I want them to be able to, you know, like I want the institutions to recognize who they are.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: I can't stand trans people, but I want them to have those rights and equal, equal access that everybody else has.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would vote for that person over the person who's like, I love trans people.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're so much fun at the Pride Parade.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: But that's it.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, darn it, you lost your lost your passport.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen way too many of those, and you have too.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get with it.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Let's stop la allowing politicians to tell us that the only thing that matters is identity.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: When identity is incredibly important, but it only matters if you have the basic human rights needs met.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't, then you're just playing politics.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, pep talk this week, y'all.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's have it down.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, do y'all have y'all experienced white liberal feminism in your lives?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know I kind of rambled in this one, but I'm really curious if you if you have.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm noticing that, and I think if I'd had a better understanding of, I'll say it this way.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: If I'd had a better understanding of white liberal feminism over the past 10 years, my outlook and my positioning and my strategy around Hillary Clinton may look a little different.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just saying.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I would like for you all to find in this week's pep talk one organization, one writer, one activist, one scholar, creator, or community leader working from an intersectional feminist lens and support them.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: And what do I mean by that?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: An intersectional feminist lens is getting a woman into power that also understands the needs of all types of women and understands to a wider scope that the needs of women are human rights.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so focusing on human rights that also impacts women, and that also may impact people who aren't women, that's important too.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but an inclusive intersectional woman is one who fights for women's rights, fights for trans women's rights, fights for black women's rights, fights for immigrant women's rights, fights for disabled women's rights, fights for all the different types of women, right?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: And supports them.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so that could mean finding these creators, supporting them, donating to them, subscribing to their pages, buying their book or their t-shirt, giving them some love in their uh in their comment section, share their work with credit, uh, invite them to speak, pay them, bring their analysis into your workplace, your school, your campaign, your community, whatever, uh for the sake of the greater good.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, white liberal feminism is, I think, a real was a really useful tool in getting us from the last chapter into the current chapter, but I'm not sure that white liberal feminism has the tools that it needs to get us into the next.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is not an attack on white women or white people, this is not an attack on anyone.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't an examination that we are asking to hold to account the people who we're putting in positions of power who have been saying that they were there to fight for all of us, and now we're asking for an exact, we're asking how.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we're saying prove it.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's all we're saying.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we say to white liberal feminists everywhere.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, thank you so much for watching this episode.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is a very spicy version of this podcast.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh way, and it's gonna get spicy.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can't wait to have some guests on because I'll be able to talk with the guests about this type of situation.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, please like, share, subscribe, comment, all those different things.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and make sure you listen to this wherever you get your podcast and out.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you, white liberal feminists, next week.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining us today on Clear History 101.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is part of Pridehouse Media, produced and edited by Josh Rosenbach.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Original music composed by Nell Balbon.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And while you're there, leave a rating and review.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: It really helps others to discover the chat.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Stay connected and join the conversation by following us on PepperMat247 on all socials at Pridehouse Media or email us at 3101.gmail.com.