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The Return Episode 3 · Coach Speak The Return

• Matt Seidl: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the pod. I'm Matt Seidel, he's Josh Trope, and this is Coach Beak. My man Josh, how are we doing, man? Josh: Great. just got back from up north playing a little golf and chance to have kind of a high school reunion of sorts. seven guys on the trip grew up together since fourth grade, so really cool experience. Matt Seidl: Surprised you don't have an ice pack on your head this morning, but it it's a little it's a little a little cold up there and rainy, or was it not that way up north? Josh: We really lucked out with the rain. It was cold yesterday morning, but we did not get wet on the golf course, which was great. A few guys lost some balls in the water, but no one got wet from rain. So Matt Seidl: Well I'm gonna give you your props. We're not doing football picks this week, but you you went I think you went five and one last week. I was a very pedestrian three and three. so you now lead. You have a nine and four record over two weeks. I am seven and six and clinging above the five hundred mark. But that L S U old miss game was exciting. That was the turning point in our in our competition, but You you you called that one right on top of a few others 'cause we had four different picks this week. So and you got three of those four right, so but Josh: All right, I like that. Too bad that wasn't in Vegas, but okay. Matt Seidl: Speaking of Vegas, we've we've had some time together in Vegas, but we'll and we're gonna get to that in a second. But we figured this week we're gonna talk a little bit about I guess the professional development that goes along with coaching and that the the timing of it all is kind of try to coincide with the BCAM clinic, which is close to our hearts over the years. we've both been members, currently are members. I actually I probably still have to re-up for this year. But the BCAM Clinic, the annual clinic, is this coming weekend when When this podcast comes out on Thursday, the two days from then, the pot the B Camp Clinic will be going on. It is moving to Battle Creek this year, which is after after being at Oakland U for a long time. But we sometime we were talking about this the other day, trying to discuss how the clinics have changed over the years. But that's one way that you know obviously coaches can I guess develop professionally within within their field. But have you looked at the field for the B Cam Clinic? I first of all are you going this year? Josh: I am not going. this will be the fourth year in a row that I have not attended. I love the B Cam Clinic. it they've done a great job. And I know we're gonna talk about w what they used to do and what they're doing now, but really for the last eight to ten years it's been incredible. it's just I for the last four years I've had a son playing high school tennis and they play every Saturday, and so I'm never gonna pick a B Cam clinic over my own kids' sports. So no, I will not be attending this year. but with Zach being a senior, I look forward to going back again in the future. Matt Seidl: Understood. I saw, you know, it seemed like the there's a rotation either to have the Michigan head coach one year and then the Michigan State staff the next and they'd kinda go back and forth. If I'm not mistaken, this year they have them both. Boynton, the new coach at Michigan, as well as Izzo are both speaking. I think that's the exciting for BKM and it's gonna help with the draw. I saw that they have Shrewsbury from Notre Dame. Notre Dame is gonna be there. That's that's probably exciting for you. EMU's coach, Don. Josh: Yeah, I mean th they always get great coaches. That you know, Sam Purcell from Mississippi State, the women's coach, is Matt Seidl: Mm-hmm. Yep. Josh: good. And you know, it Shrewsbury, I believe, before he was at Notre Dame was at Penn State, isn't that correct? Yeah, and it Matt Seidl: believe so. I'm not totally a a a guru in that history thing, but go ahead. Josh: Yeah, and then well, I just thought it was ironic. Penn State's coach, Mike Rhodes, is also gonna be there. So yeah, I mean, it's probably good. you as you know, I'm a huge well, the listeners know as well, I'm a huge Notre Dame fan. It's probably good that Shrewsbury, for his sake, that I'm not gonna be there. They have been so bad. I probably would boo him when he took the court, so that would not be not be a good Matt Seidl: Mm. Mm. Josh: thing. But he does have The Sanderson kid, John John Sanderson is gonna be a freshman this year at Notre Dame. So I am excited to see how he plays. Jonathan played at Celine High School before he transferred to a school outside the Nashville area and then transferred again. and I believe he ended up at a prep academy the last time. Matt Seidl: Yeah, I actually had the the pleasure of coaching against John John. I I didn't call him John John. I should have called him Mr. Sanderson that night. He didn't even he didn't even play well and Selene beat my undefeated Olivet team at the time, by twenty that night. So but yeah, he's he's special, I think. I'm curious how his college career rolls and be his coach may talk about him or may not, especially being in Michigan. But I mean Sanderson, he wasn't there that long. So yeah, I mean again, so now I it looks like Northwood Men and women are practicing and and the Alabet men are practicing. And that right there is the different you know, they're just talking about clinics from yesteryear, and you and I were both, that's how you and I met. you were Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: on Rex Stanzak staff. I was my head coach at the time, and we went that Rex and I used to go to clinics one or two every year. Every spring we would go, we'd pick one, usually Chicago, but it was Toronto and different areas, and we would go, and that's how you and I met. And the way clinics were back then, when I first got into coaching, when you got into coaching, compared to now. Now again everything is on court demonstration. Back in the day, if you recall, we were in hotel ballrooms with pr with projectors and the little Josh: Yes. Matt Seidl: the little sheets of plastic that they would rotate and usually they would get stuck and some guy from Nike would have to come running out of the back and try to straighten it out. Dude, it was a crap show. But you think about how things have evolved. Josh: They didn't even Yeah, they didn't even have like a court drawn on the sheet. The coach had to draw the court. I mean it was Yeah. Matt Seidl: No. Yeah. And then and and some of some of look look up phallic symbol and you know what I'm talking about. But there's some there was some like really poorly drawn courts. Everyone Nike was cutting edge. They finally went Josh: Yes. Matt Seidl: to the court diagrams on the on the projector. But it was, you know, when they were trying to demonstrate stuff, they had to like bring people in out the audience and just, you know, they're moving cups around. It was just really an antiquated way of going about things. Now at least for most time we get on court demonstrations by coaches that are mic'd up with either a college team team used as demonstrating or they run their own practices. But I mean you some of the some of the early clinics, I mean I just I don't know. Usually I mean when's the last time you took your entire staff to a clinic? Josh: that's a great call. I would say my last year at Chelsea. So that would have been six years ago is when I took my whole staff. Those those the last time I did. But again, you know, it's it's tough. People they're busy, they they got kids, they got different things like that. It was a lot easier. When you and I met, that was, I don't know, thir maybe twenty five years ago or something like that. And it also ages us. But you know, I mean, your kids were very little. I did not have kids yet. You know, Rex didn't have kids yet and and really we didn't always take our staffs. It was usually a collection of head coaches, maybe one assistant that would make those road trips. Matt Seidl: Yeah, those were some interesting road trips, which it wasn't it wasn't it Josh: Well what the first Matt Seidl: wasn't always basketball, but my goodness, yeah. So Josh: Well that was the first time I met you was in Chicago and we all piled into a car and went and and you seen on the way there you seemed like a really good guy. Little did I know that during the clinic that you would criticize every college speaker, like their their poor drawing, their poor schemes, their inability to carry a conversation. I mean I'll never forget when Bill Musselman Sr. who has now passed away spoke, when he when he got Done with his part of the clinic. And by the way, he did not draw one thing. He stood in front of us and talked for an hour and a half, which, you know, we're scribbling notes down. And after about ten minutes, you stopped scribbling because you had decided he was horrible and he knew nothing and you were done. Is I believe how it went. Matt Seidl: I think Re Rex stopped talking to me for about three months after I walked out on Bill Musselman. I couldn't take he was he was He was close to senile at that point. I'm sure people think I'm senile right now. It was he couldn't keep train of thought. He was all over the place and his diagrams were I mean, they they didn't make any sense. What he was talking about was he and it was late in the n it was late in the day. We'd already listened to ten speakers already and we're sitting in these ballroom chairs. Yeah, he was he he he really ranks as the worst speaker that particular night that I'd ever seen. And I know you guys gave me a hard time about that. But yeah. I mean w that's what we used to do. We used to take our staff that was the time one, d to get some knowledge, and pick it up the the best way we could. just kind of becoming popular Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: back in the nineties. It wasn't even a big thing yet. Now you can you know, of course now you just go on YouTube and but you know, we would it was a staff bonding weekend too. And and I'm I'm not even a drinker, but it was a great time with your your staff. And then when we go with a collection of head coaches, Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: I mean I usually didn't drive, I tried to pawn that off on someone else. I should have been the designated driver for a lot of these trips, but anyway I I just I think I usually did, Josh: Well, you ended up being the designated driver a lot of nights. I mean yeah. Matt Seidl: unbelievable but yeah, it was A lot of fun. yeah, I it was Josh: Well and and they had a lot of breakout if you remember they had a the to try to get some movement and things like that. after they bring in kind of you know the heavy hitters, the big names, they'd always try in the afternoon after lunch to do a bunch of breakout groups because they were smart. What happened was everybody was locked in for those first three speakers or two speakers in the morning. And we're there, we're excited, coffee's flowing, we're we're engaged, and you're sitting there and after you sit there three hours, you know, they give you a break to go to lunch. Well, everybody goes to lunch. Then a different drink starts flowing, some Matt Seidl: Right. Josh: different things happen like that. And they were smart. They knew people were not coming back in the early afternoon. So what they do is they do a lot of small breakout rooms, lesser known coaches. I mean very knowledgeable, but lesser known coaches, or that's where they bring in the the skills trainer or the weightlifting coach. And and then some of us would make it back in the afternoon, and some most of us wouldn't make it back till after dinner. But I mean that's just kind of how it worked. So Matt Seidl: It w it it was. And you know, you you you made the comment about me laughing at at some of these college coaches and i course that that's when winning was coming really easy for me as a coach. I of course I sometimes thought that was me. That was the reason we were winning, not necessarily realize that it it all was about the Jimmies and Joes or whatever you want to call it. But Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: yeah, I was a little arrogant. I think you know, young coaches who who who get some wins under their belt early in their in their life, they get that way. But it was I I Josh: Well th hold on that was not that was not the only clinic you walked out of. Can we we need to talk about another clinic you walked out of when we decided that Chicago wasn't just that wasn't good enough, that we're gonna take a trip to Las Vegas in the spring. because and we did that obviously just because we wanted to learn basketball. No other reasons there at all. But we went to Las Vegas and I'll never forget I you know, I introduced you to the roulette wheel, gambling on sports, some different Matt Seidl: Let it ri let it ride, yeah. Josh: Let it ride. Great game. I I you know I haven't seen that in the casinos in years, but I remember Matt Seidl: I know. Josh: that great game. And I'll never forget we we we had our afternoon lunch break and and I forget who it was, but I think it was might have been Coach K who was speeching speaking next. He's either Coach K or Huggins, and I'm excited, I'm amped up, I'm gonna go back in, and and that was all on court demonstrations. That's the other thing that made Vegas different. They always did on court demonstrations. Matt Seidl: They were they they were the first ones to really go to it on a regular and th that's why that's why people went to Vegas, 'cause you you got away from a ballroom and you actually Josh: Right. Matt Seidl: got to watch on court stuff, yeah. Josh: Yeah, and it was great. So I'm heading in and we're walking side by side and we had a few other coaches with us. And I'll never forget you stop and you turn and you just hand me your notepad and I look at you and you're like, Hey, I'm going back to the roulette wheel, take some notes for me. And I never saw you again that day. Matt Seidl: Mm. I did not watch another speaker the entire time we were there and I I was a I got caught up like you got me going on Let It Ride and then it was Roulette and I went to the roulette table and listen I did pretty well that day. I was just betting red and black back and forth and I said I'm either gonna I'm either gonna lose this three hundred dollars or I'm gonna double it and I didn't I not only doubled it, it got a little bit better. So that was a good weekend on top of the Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Matt Seidl: par the baseball parlay we hit later that weekend. But yeah, I I used to be in gamblers anonymous after Josh: Yeah, of course. But you're right though. I I'm glad we I mean right there you're talking about the evolution like with the encore. You're right. That is why Matt Seidl: Yeah. Josh: we went out there. And I'm curious to ask you this too, because you you go back a little bit farther than me. I, you know, the fall clinics, B Camp always had the fall clinic, but to us, I mean, we always went to B Camp, but the spring clinic was huge. Like we never Matt Seidl: Spring. Yeah. Josh: missed a spring clinic, but that that slowly died out. And I think that I think it was more because our kids started playing baseball, different spring sports. Yeah. Matt Seidl: Yep. They also again they they became more popular, in in terms of people, but the information that's out there now, you know, it's just it changed everything. I mean, it got to the point. My biggest I'm I'm telling you, my biggest impact as a young coach was a guy by the name of Don Meyer. Josh: Yeah, everybody, yeah, legend. Yeah. Yeah. Matt Seidl: And the f and and and I bought it was on during one of those those magazines, you know, that have the coaching tapes. The coaching tapes were becoming big. And I bought I didn't buy one or two, I bought his like entire set of sixteen and it became my Bible. And he Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: look the knowledge I got from those tapes was greater than anything I probably collectively could have got at going to ten clinics. And nothing against clinics. But then Josh: Yeah, I believe it. Yeah. Matt Seidl: you really got to isolate your professional development in a certain area, so that was huge. Don also may have been the First on court clinic. He ran one out at Rochester College. He was a Garth Garth Garth Pleasant. Josh: Okay, I remember that. Yes. With Garth, yeah. Matt Seidl: Yeah, and he and they had a relationship. It's when he was at David Lipscomb, and he did an encore and had to sit in those wooden bleachers over there. But man, was that good. And that's when you're just getting bit by the bug. And I think that's, you know, those experiences are what kind of led us to probably the next phase of how you and I started to, I guess, improve our professional. development and that's actually going to you know not necessarily clinics but actually now starting to isolate and go to actual practices and Josh: Yes. Matt Seidl: then or even go visit a particular university and try to meet with a coaching staff about a particular topic. And that's that's that that was a game changer for all of us as well. So but Josh: Yeah, absolutely. Matt Seidl: I mean y you have a favorite you have a favorite trip that Josh: What Matt Seidl: w in terms of a practice or a or a Josh: I definitely have a favorite, but I think it's important to talk about our first. So our first trip that we ever that we ever decided to put together with all this, because to me, and and again, I will always support BCAM, love the clinics, was the start of my career was going to clinics, but as as where I'm at right now I want to target schools that there are certain things I want from and I want to go spend weekends with those schools or multiple colleges. And I feel like we get more out of that now where we're at in our stage instead of just kind of a plethora of coaches and information. Plus, let's be honest, we are way too old to sit in bleachers for eight to ten hours now. And that's the other thing. I want to sit at a two hour practice and then I want to go stretch my legs and go to eat. Matt Seidl: Right. Right. Josh: But our first trip, we were both at Ypsilanti and we it was A brilliant trip. We we went to Kenisha's College, if you remember, that's where we started. Matt Seidl: Adiós. Josh: Yep. And then we went to the University of Buffalo. This was pre-NATO's. so we saw a college practice on Friday, a college practice on Sunday, and then on I'm sorry, on Saturday, Matt Seidl: Saturday. Josh: and then on Sunday, we went to the Bills Lions game. I mean, we built a weekend around it. We got two great practices, got a chance to know the staff, and For our listeners, John Beeline, I believe, was the coach at Kenesha at the time when we went to that practice. Was that him that was there? Was it McDonald? Okay, was it? Matt Seidl: I think it was Mike McDonald. I I think Beeline I think Beeline I think Beeline had already just left or something. Yeah. And and Josh: To go to West Virginia maybe? Okay. Matt Seidl: McDonald maybe took over in ninety seven 'cause this was a Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: probably about two thousand one, two thousand two when we did it. It's close, Josh: Okay. So we missed them. Okay. Matt Seidl: yeah, 'cause I remember talking about Beeline, but we really didn't know him as the guru that he is. But yeah, and Josh: No. No. That was before Pitznogle at West Virginia. We didn't know who he was. Yeah. Matt Seidl: And and and yeah, and Kenisha's was a interesting experience. Like th their facilities were terrible and Josh: Yep. Yeah. Matt Seidl: we actually got to sit through a film session after their practice. The coaches let us in Josh: I remember that. Matt Seidl: and it was in this little like closet almost. It was a real small place. But I remember being at that practice and we were all a little bit 'cause we had never really done that, you know, like trying not to try not to get in the way and then there I I look over and you're gone. And you're over there walking around at drills, you're talking to coaches, you're you're taking notes, you're like you're right on the almost on the court with the player. Look at This guy. He's pretty ballsy little guy. And and I little did I know we got a Hall of Fame coach on our hands right there. But that that was a great trip. And of course, Jason, Josh: It was. Matt Seidl: J Jason Bird was our connection at Buffalo because Red Josh: Yes, the buffalo. Yeah. Matt Seidl: Reggie Witherspoon had had had recruited him, and Jason was there early in his career, and he did play all four years, one of our Ipsy kids. But yeah, that that was you're right. That that was probably that was probably trip number one of getting a hold of a college coach and asking to come in and getting access to. to what they did Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: and getting to talk to them. Yeah, that was great. and then I mean we've done some other ones too, obviously. So. Josh: So I I mean my favorite though, I mean I mean people don't realize how lucky we're we went down and had a weekend with Nate Oates, his staff at Alabama. We saw the game again, we build things around events that we want to see too. Matt Seidl: Mm-hmm. Josh: we went down and spent a weekend in Alabama. This is my favorite. we saw the game of the century. We saw Joe Burrow go into Alabama and beat Tua. We're at that game. we see Terrell Owens at basketball practice, which was wild. And Matt Seidl: On Saturday morning, right, yeah. Josh: Yeah, got a picture with him. had a chance to watch two well, two practices. We had a chance to sit down with their film guy, and he he took us through like all these packages of sets and drills. And then the best thing was we got him to email all that stuff to us so we Matt Seidl: Yep. Josh: had access to it forever, you know, on our computers. and then and then the highlight Matt Seidl: Yeah. Josh: of the trip, with I I well they actually this might not be there's some lowlights too, but the highlight of the trip though is Get a phone call, my cell phone from Nate, and this is on Friday night, and we're coming to practice the next morning. But he wants to invite us to sit in on their coaches pre-practice Matt Seidl: Mm-hmm. Josh: session. So what Nate does, he meets with all his coaches. And when I say all his coaches, there's like 16 people in the room. There's managers, coaches, assistants to coaches, strength coach. I mean, it I mean, am I lying? There had to be 15, 16 people in that room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Matt Seidl: You y you and I had to sit off to the side. We couldn't even get in at the table because there were so many people there. It was a huge table too. So yeah. Josh: Yeah. So so Nate calls. He's like, Hey Josh, how you doing? Cause we didn't Nate on Friday. He was busy. He was had some recruits on campus, different things. and we went to the volleyball game Friday night, and Matt Seidl: We did. Josh: Nate was there with his team, but even then we didn't get a chance to catch up yet. So he gives me a call and he's just confirming the details, telling us where to go. But that is not the real reason he called. The real reason he called was like, Hey, listen, I need a favor. I'm like, sure, anything, Nate. And he goes, Tell Seidel he cannot open his mouth during the coaches meeting and nobody cares about the flex offense. And I I mean I fell out of my bed. I was laughing so hard. But he he was worried about you opening your mouth and and saying something in front of the staff. Matt Seidl: When I coached with Nate that one year at Oramulus I I did have a hard time. I mean, I was that former head coach and again probably thought I knew it all. I I never I was always, you know, taking Nate on with his thought. I I probably made him a better coach 'cause it it made him argue what he was convicting and what he was a strong belief in. But yeah, so that was hilarious. I remember and I did keep my mouth shut for the most part. I did I think I told his staff that the only reason he beat me the year before was when I was at F C he was at Romus 'cause the officials screwed me over. But that's he He didn't take that very well, but that was a that was great, and that is a very true story. We did not run the we did not run the flex at Ipsy or at Rhymulus. So I don't even know where he got that from, but I I know, I know, I know it was. Josh: No, that was just a dig at you, I think. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt Seidl: That was great. And how about the we got to go to their tailgate? They they they Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: drove they drove us over on the golf carts from the basketball arena to the football field. We felt like we were VIPs. We got to be part of the football tailgate. Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: We got to see the big party across the street at the fraternity house, including the tr the Trump flag. among other things we got to see. Dude that that that that was one of the greatest that was a great trip. That was great. So Josh: Yeah. The atmosphere was unbelievable. It really was. It it was. If if and if there was a low light on that, also a memorable story, we flew in on Thursday night, very late Thursday night, to Birmingham, Alabama, which Matt Seidl: Yes, we did. Josh: I will never fly into again after this experience. And when we got off the plane to go get our rental car, it was closing within ten minutes, and they informed us because LSU was in town, they ran out of rental cars. Matt Seidl: Remind of s i it was like a Seinfeld episode where they didn't have the car available. Yeah, it was terrible, man. Josh: And Yeah. Yeah, and and I think that was the first time I'd ever taken an Uber in my life. And we took an o Yeah, from Birmingham to Alabama, which I think cost more than my plane ticket, by the way, but Matt Seidl: An hour, an hour Uber ride. Yeah. Yeah. Although those tickets were pretty expensive. Every ticket was expensive that weekend. Josh: That's true. Matt Seidl: Yeah, we and we had a great ride. He took us to the wrong hotel, but we eventually got there. Yeah, that the bill for the Uber ride. I think we got reimbursed though. I think we somehow got the the car rental place to take care of it. Yeah. We didn't we didn't take a shot. Josh: We did. yes, I believe we went on social media and took a shot at Enterprise and I think they reimbursed us our money. Yeah, they did. Matt Seidl: Yeah, I mean that that was great. Yeah. Josh: So I got a question for you. Who who's the worst speaker you've ever seen? Is it really Muslim? Matt Seidl: It's muscleman or man, there was there was one other guy. I'm trying to think of his It'd be a tie. Dean Smith And Bill Frieder. Dean Smith and Bill Josh: Real Dean Smith? Matt Seidl: Dean Smith would come into clinics in those ballrooms, Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: and Dino would say, What would you like me to talk about? They had an assigned topic for him, but he would always Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: ask the crowd what they wanted to hear because he had so many, you know, great topics, right? And he would get, he'd offer four ideas and he would be it would be split right down the middle. So he would never get anywhere with that. And then he would usually change the topic from the assigned topic. He cannot draw on a board or a diagram sheet. He was awful. You'd like what is he drawing? And he he was not a great storyteller. He's a fabulous coach. He's one of the best ever. Unbelievable, Josh: Yeah, yeah. Matt Seidl: iconic guy. Was not a great clinic speaker. And I guess the expectations were so high when he was in front of you. And I s Josh: Right. Matt Seidl: I I saw him two or three times. And it was the same debacle every time. The other one, maybe probably worse than Dean, was Bill Frieder. At Josh: Okay, okay. That doesn't surprise me. Yeah. Great recruiter though. Great recruiter. Matt Seidl: at the Vegas clinic. At the Vegas clinic, he was probably there counting cards, but he he spoke it was it was after he may have been at Arizona s state at the time Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: or maybe he was already done, it was after his Michigan stint. But he was he was talking about stuff that he didn't even do anymore and barely even he didn't even know what he was talking about. Like he was tr he he had a topic and was explaining it I don't know whether it was a secondary break or something, that he didn't even run anymore. Like it was something he had run like five or six years before and he wasn't even really in tune with it. He was just buying time and he was not very dynamic, looked like he didn't want to be there, probably wanted to get back to the casino, if you know Bill. and and I like Bill as a head coach in Michigan. I thought he did some great things, but those two guys were never w were not really Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: good clinic speakers. How about you? Josh: I won't say worst clinic speaker, but the worst practice I ever went to. and I remember I still have the text, and I just told you about my golf trip. I and it kind of ties in. year one, Juwan Howard at Michigan, and it it was early in the year, maybe third week of practice. And I reached out to Jay Smith, who's always been a good friend, and yeah, of course, we'll get you into practice. And we go in, and I watched the worst practice I've ever seen in my life. I mean They were now they were struggling with the drill. They were. And it's early in the year, that's to be expected. But they stayed on this rebounding drill, and I am not joking for almost 30 minutes. I mean, that is like coaching 101. At some point, you got Matt Seidl: Right. Josh: you've got to move on. And then it there was no good transitions, no flow. and again, it it was year one for Juwan. He wasn't probably the coach he was at the end. Even then, I don't know how good he was, but it was a really bad practice. And and I knew it, the people I were That I went with were there, knew it. And I remember texting my friend group, the guys that I golf with, because they're all Michigan slappies like you. And I texted him and said, Michigan is in trouble. This is the worst practice I've ever seen. And as we're walking out that day, just to confirm it, Jay walked over to me, shook my hand, and said, Matt Seidl: Ha ha ha. Josh: Hey Josh, come back. It'll be better. And he knew he knew. Matt Seidl: Sorry about that. Josh: And we all knew it was it was bad. So yeah, it was rough. Yeah. Matt Seidl: We're a s along the same lines and this is my beloved Michigan basketball program, were you with me when we watched Brian Ellerby's practice? Josh: No, I I I went and saw Hubie Brown speak, I believe, when he when he was the coach, but I did not go see Brian Eller be coach. Matt Seidl: Brian Ellerby, I went to a practice and I was with somebody. I can't remember who it was. Brian actually came up and saw us and during like a water break, came over and sat down and talked to us a little bit and kind of complained a little bit about his team. And I, you know, I was Brian actually had success, kind of like Juwan, he had success a very first year, kind of with someone else's players, and then just couldn't keep the train on the tracks. It was a brutal practice. It was poorly designed, the players were not engaged, it seemed disorganized, they were at living a little bit from. the practice schedule. Just and again, we all can have bad practices, but I I it's the Josh: of course. Yeah. Matt Seidl: only practice I ever saw. But that was one of the worst ones. It actually makes you feel good as a high school coach. Like, you know, these guys aren't these guys aren't that much removed from us. You know, obviously have better players and they're in a high profile situation, but they can have crappy practices and you know it's like being Josh: yeah. Matt Seidl: it's like being in the classroom. Sometimes you know you got a lesson plan and it just goes south and you just got to deal with it and tomorrow's another day. And I think you got that with Juan and I definitely got that Josh: Yep. Yeah. Matt Seidl: with with Ellerby but Josh: Yep. Matt Seidl: You mentioned Hubie, by the way. We can't move out of this segment without I thought he, we talked about bad speakers. I thought he was one of the best speakers I'd ever watched. He was a great storyteller. And he would always he'd he he'd give you something and you think and you're writing it down, you know, you're trying to copy it, and you think he got it, he goes, but that's not what we want. And then he would go he would go to the next option, and then he goes, and then you you think he got it, and he goes, but that's not really what we're looking for. And then he would go to the next it was unbelievable. He he was Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: hilarious. He was a great speaker. Josh: I mean, I I would argue that he's Matt Seidl: Yeah. Josh: maybe the greatest basketball mind that I've ever heard in person. And and and and w what Matt Seidl: I would I wouldn't argue with him. Yeah. Josh: I loved about his and and for anybody that listens to this, and there's a lot of people putting these clinics on now, like Hillsdale had a coaching clinic a couple weeks ago. I was unable to go. the New Spring Arbor coach is talking about having a clinic this fall. I know Ken George does one in the Grand Rapids area that's picking up you know, some steam. Matt Seidl: Yeah. Yeah. Coach Coach Speak Podcast should do a clinic by the way. Anyway, yeah. No. Yeah, exactly. Josh: We we you know what we need to have a that is a great now we won't speak at it because everybody's tired of listening to us anyways, but we should do one. That's a great idea. but but for those th listening, though those guys that speak, one of the best things Hubie did was at the his like last 10 minutes, and every time I heard him speak, he did this. He would give you like five situations that you should practice daily Matt Seidl: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Josh: or weekly, and then he'd give you one triangle and two beater, one box and one beater. and one out of timeout baseline out of bounds play. And he'd be like, you and he'd he'd tell you, if you don't do this stuff at practice and you don't have this stuff as a coach, you're not any good. I mean, he would just tell you that. And but it was great stuff. yeah, he would he was wonderful. Matt Seidl: No, he was yeah he very entertaining. You ne I never would walk a walk out on him. You know the other we were talking about good practices, bad practices. The other guy that runs a really good practice and I don't know, he wasn't that popular around here, I don't think, for some reason. Jim Boone Josh: I knew you were gonna say that. Matt Seidl: at Easter Mid I and I know some people are very critical of him. He was the most efficient coach during a n a two hour practice of any guy I've ever seen. Dude, they they practiced and it was organized and it was tempo and they just were never any good. Like he couldn't get Josh: Gonna say, can I can I say why nobody liked them? Because they were horrible in India, and and I'll tell you what, he no. Matt Seidl: I he could he couldn't get he couldn't get D one players to eastern Michigan, yeah. Josh: He w but yes, I agree with you because you I went to some of those practices with you. He's a in and later on I I followed him on social media and and I even bought some of his DVDs and stuff. Great, Matt Seidl: Yeah, agree. Josh: no, he grip great basketball mind. but either he couldn't get the buy-in, definitely couldn't get the players, but I mean at the end of the day, I mean, like we like you said earlier, it's it's not about the X's and the O's, it's about the Jimmies Matt Seidl: Mm. Josh: and the Joes, and he did not have any Jimmies or Joes. Yeah. Yep. Matt Seidl: No, he didn't, unfortunately. Yeah. My my my my last point before we move on, like just to to other coaches who haven't thought about this route. It's funny 'cause I I I think I I I take credit for talking Nate into this a little bit and that's what sent him out to California and he started networking and next thing you know he look where he is right now. But this is when I was coached with Nate because he wasn't really I said, dude, just call up people and go ask if you can watch them practice or even meet with them. I did it when I was at a wedding in Nebraska a couple years when I my last year at Olivet coaching, I was going to A wedding in Lincoln, Nebraska, and I ended up calling the the Adobo at the University of Nebraska and just said, I'm gonna be around that Saturday morning. Are you guys happening to be practicing? I tried Creighton too, and they weren't practicing, but Nebraska was. So I got into Heuberg's practice like at 10 a.m. or 9 a.m. that morning. It was a Saturday. And he I didn't talk to Fred that day, but a couple of his assistants were really nice. I got to sit there. I was the only high school coach there. Got to watch them practice. It's really it's that easy. These guys love Josh: It is. Matt Seidl: They love people to come into their practices. You just gotta reach out to And it's it's it's it's great it's the greatest professional development you can do. I and I'm not bashing on clinics. it's that's for some people, but Josh: yeah. Right. Matt Seidl: at a cer certain point in your career I think you change it a little bit. So All right, well hey, cool, man. That's that was that's our first and second quarter. That was great though. I I'm glad we got a chance to talk about that. I I hope hopefully people got some some entertainment out of that, but also maybe some it it provoked some thought as well. So but before we move into our our our our interview today, let's our our third quarter. We're not again we're not gonna do football picks, but we are gonna continue our our what we're watching, at least for this week. So I'm gonna let you go first. I like to let you Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: go first, and then I I might have a couple myself, but What wha what are you watching right now, Coach? Josh: Well, it before I do a what you're watching, so I'm gonna spin it a little bit. You know, we're allowed to, you know, do what we want on here. It's our podcast. So instead Matt Seidl: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Josh: of what we're watching, it's a story I have from the weekend. So get off the co the golf course. And yes, I know the podcast PG thirteen, it's appropriate, don't worry. So I get off the the golf course yesterday at noon and we're going to have lunch. And we go into West Ranch to have lunch yesterday. And I'm wearing my Lumen Christie sweatshirt because it's it's cold on the course and the kid at the door that's seating us right away goes, Lumen Christie football. It kind of gives me a dirty look. And I'm like, Well, actually, it's a basketball sweatshirt. And and and this is so this is like an 18, 19-year-old kid, and he goes, You coach basketball? And I'm Yeah, he goes, Yeah, I could tell from your height. And I'm like, Wow, I'm like, you better hope you're not like waiting on us because you just lost your tip. I mean, there's no doubt about that. But no, he was funny, so he sits us down. And I go, so why'd you make the comment? And he goes, Well, I I play football here at Algama Heights. And I know they have a really good football program. I go, How'd you do last year last night? And he goes, it was an awful game. And I'm like, Well, what Matt Seidl: Mm. Josh: happened what happened? And now at this point, all my buddies were all buying into the kids' story. We all have sons and daughters that play sports, so we're listening. And he goes, We won 35 to nothing. And I look at him, I'm like, Well, what was awful about that? He goes, game didn't end till 1030. There was 46 flies. flags in the game. And I'm like, I'm like, what it's it's a blowout. Why are we calling anything? And and Matt Seidl: Right. Josh: so he was he was complaining about that. And I said, Hey, how'd you guys do last year? And he goes, Well, we lost in the semis to West Catholic. He goes, We always lose to a Catholic school. And I go, I go, who did they play Matt Seidl: Mm. Mm. Josh: in the finals? He goes, Well, they blew out Divine Child. And I'm like, you know, it's funny. I go, I have a podcast you should listen to. I go, you know, it kind of talks a little bit about this, even though he didn't feel cheated like you know, sometimes you do by losing to Catholic schools, but he did say they always lose to a Catholic school. And they're gonna be very good again this year. And from what I've seen, they are based on the record because I looked it up after he walked away. but later before as we were walking out, I did have to kind of take a shot at some of the public schools that, you know, cry woe is me, especially Dexter. after their shenanigans last year. So I told him, I said, hey, you know, based on what you told me, you lost a West Catholic and they they blew out Divine Child. So you were probably the best public school team last year. And he goes, Yeah, we probably were. I'm like, you know, I hear in Dexter they make t-shirts for that. You should think about reaching out and getting one of those. And he had a blank story, didn't quite understand the joke, but maybe if he follows the podcast, he'll get it. Matt Seidl: I'm not laughing. Although my again, my I I reference this week one, my ninety six will o' run team. I think I could we could get those shirts for them. I a lot of those guys, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. man. Yeah, we gotta find somebody to create that. All Josh: You should. And especially because it'd be vintage. Because the fly that school's not even open, like a flyer t-shirt. That'd be vintage. Yeah. Yeah. Matt Seidl: right. Well so one of the things I'm watching or having a great time with this weekend and you and I've already talked about this this morning were some of the social media comments about about you know obviously you took a jab at at the Cascades conference, maybe in jest, maybe truthfully, I don't know. but Josh: Hold on, I took a shot at their scheduling. That's what I took a shot. Yeah. Matt Seidl: Yeah, there's scheduling. Yeah, there's scheduling. And there's some people on Facebook especially, which it got a lot of traffic, that particular clip that we ran. they wanted to point out they wanted to point out to you more than one, and I got some private ones too, that you know, he might want to pump the brakes a little bit, being you, because some of the guys that you are having success with success with actually should be playing or could be playing for these cascades conference teams, and maybe that's why they're not as successful, because they're all choosing to go to the local club team. So I was I can't get enough of that, by the way. So I I don't know. And I know you've got thick skin, but you you had to see Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: some of that. So Josh: Yeah, I did. And you know the thing is is and I truly mean this, I think it's important, is it it was a dig at the the scheduling and and I stick by that. I I would like to see some of those schools pick up their non league schedule, like by playing Lumen Christie or or other people. Matt Seidl: Not at Josh: but but that being said, there are still some really really good basketball teams in that league and there have been over the years. Like this year, the the Jonesville team in that league, they could make a run to the Breslin. And that is legitimate when I say that for people that don't know basketball in the area. That Jonesville team is good enough and they have the path to get to the Breslin. Derek, your your son who's coming on the podcast soon and and our you know the third leg of our tripod, you know, like he he had some teams the last few years that were top 10 teams in the state. And we all gotta remember, obviously Coach Gaddy at Michigan Center had that thing rolling for years. And obviously Chad Mortimer had some great teams in the past. Cascades has good basketball. I I just wish, like I said, I I wish we'd get a chance to play some of those schools. And I and I get why they don't want to. I I'm being selfish because I don't want to travel so much. but I I will say Travis Gaddy reached out to me. he was the person that reached out to me. And I will say when Travis was there, they played anybody Anywhere, anytime. I and and again a lot of respect for Travis, great coach, and and he'd take on all comers. Matt Seidl: Gotcha. You're you you're starting to break up a little bit by the way. I don't know. You y you can edit this out. You're actually frozen right now. Are there? there you are. You're back. Yeah. It's been it's been a little choppy. Hop hope rem remember to clip this part when we're talking about the Josh: No. Am I here? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, of course. Matt Seidl: t technical stuff. But you got in you got an I got one more. Do you have another one or you're good? Josh: No, fire away. Matt Seidl: I my last one, it had nothing to do with you this time. But you know, I I like to take some shots at you, but the Celine, Chelsea, and University of Catholic Central football teams. Holy crap. Celine beats Dexter something like 58 to nothing in a game that wasn't even that close. Chelsea beats a undefeated Tecumseh team sixty-three to six or something. And I don't even know what the Catholic Central D LaSalle final score was, but I saw on X in the second quarter, Catholic Central was beating D LaSalle 43 to nothing. I mean these three teams are just putting it on people. I they you know obviously Celine and Catholic Central could meet up at some point. I think that I wish they'd play next week, but that is that is something. Those teams for four weeks into the season are, man, they are they are raising some eyebrows for sure. So hard hard not to notice. Josh: No, I and I'm glad you brought that up. It it brings me to two questions here to end our third quarter. One, I mean, wouldn't you agree though that high school football right now and the and to talk about your scores is incredibly watered down. It is, it is the have and have nots. There's I mean, it I just feel like the top is just elite and there's not many gu I mean, you know, like I feel like you know what the top six to eight teams are in every division and they nobody else has a chance. and then I'd also ask this, but let's talk about this score since we're talking about blowouts. This one shocked me. Didn't handover Horton like twenty-six to nothing over Napoleon. Like I I did not see that coming. Matt Seidl: Yeah, but It ended up being forty something to something in the teens. But it was Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: yeah, Napoleon looked like an unstoppable force offensively their first three weeks. Like someone might catch him, but it it probably gonna end up being Loom and Christie in a regional game. And then they j this was at home too, and they just got boat raced by Hanover. So yeah, I I Josh: Okay. I was shocked by that score. Yeah. Matt Seidl: think a lot I think a lot of people were. Hudson went down this week too, which I think any any time Hudson gets beat in the regular season shocks people as well. So the weird thing about football is as the season goes on, the gap just gets bigger and bigger because the the teams that are I consider I I hate to say it, I consider our Pinckney program a little fragile because personnel and numbers so as the injuries start to mount, it the gap just gets bigger for these teams that have great numbers and they're able to stay healthy 'cause they're able to play more kids and they're winning games easily, so they are able to sub out. It's just the yeah, and it's it's just part of the part of the deal because injuries are such a big part of football. So All right, well, hey, that ends our third quarter. We are going to move into our fourth and final quarter. And our we got an interview this week. a very familiar face and voice. We'll see if we can pull him away from his newborn son and fantasy football in just a moment. All right, well welcome back to the pod. You can I think you if you're watching, you can see our familiar face that we just referenced, and that would be the one of the original members of the of the Coach Speak podcast, Derek Seidel, stepping in this week to kind of complement our professional development angle. Dee, how you doing? Derek Seidl: Doing well, doing well. You I I I was I was banished, you know, from the the the re the reboot, but I I've I guess I've been welcomed back temporarily, so we'll take it. Matt Seidl: my God. Well we we may have to Josh: Well well, based on all the hate that your dad and I get, we thought we would leave you out of that 'cause you're so loved. We wan wanna just keep you on that pedestal. Yeah. Yep. Derek Seidl: No, that yeah. That's true. Matt Seidl: Well we're t we're taking you away from a couple things. We're taking you away from fantasy football this week. I know you have a tough match in your fantasy football league this week since you're playing the the the treacherous Duncan dogs that would be my team and I I'm off to a decent start after Thursday. and we're also you know taking you away from maybe the real reason you're not on this podcast consistently. i he does he happen to be within reaching distance right now, the little man, or is he up back upstairs? we Derek Seidl: He he he is not he is got been taken upstairs to his playpen, so but yeah, d Matt Seidl: We got Josh: Ha ha ha. Derek Seidl: he we got done with his bottle, so he's he's now ready for playtime. But but yeah Josh: It's it's Matt Seidl: He Josh: funny. It's funny because the last time I saw your mom, she told me that she still has to put your dad away in his playpen when he misbehaves too. So I I that's it's funny. Matt Seidl: Yeah, that it's that that's where I do my time out for sure, man. Dunc Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: Duncan is doing well. I got to spend a little time with him yesterday. He he's he's having good days. More good days than bad days. That's great. Derek Seidl: Absolutely, yes. Matt Seidl: Yeah, that's cool. so Josh: Wait, wait, hold on. I I thought the real reason he wasn't on the podcast is because he's filming YouTube videos of himself with with baseball cards and going to baseball card shows. I thought that's why you weren't on. I heard you're like traveling and trading and selling and buying and I Derek Seidl: I I have I have definitely too deep into the as you can see behind me. I got all my some of my cards up above me. But yeah, I've I've got maybe you could probably say a little bit of an addiction going on with sports cards, but no, that that's not the reason why I'm not on. But it it keeps me busy for sure. Josh: Do you w do you wanna advertise your you wanna advertise your YouTube channel right now? Go for it. Free. Okay. Okay okay. Derek Seidl: No, no, no, no. That's that's secret. That's secret. Matt Seidl: He he he he keeps that on the down low and that he his fate his his his little pretty face never never shows up on that. Derek Seidl: I'm not worried about it but I don't need I don't feel like advertising it out. It's all good. It's it's not it's not anything t professional enough for that, you know. I gotta work on it more before Josh: Okay. Derek Seidl: I go go public. Matt Seidl: my god Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: Well before we get into our topic a little bit, since I got you here, do you wanna take thirty seconds and respond to Coach Tropez's jab at the Cascades Conference? That's another motif for this particular podcast. You got anything to say about that or are you just gonna take the high road? Derek Seidl: I mean that it it it definitely was a quite the fun topic of conversation around Jackson County the the last few days here for sure. I know texting with some coaches and different people in the area. you know, I I I think my my thing that obviously I don't agree with with any of the the Cascades takes there. I mean, you know, I think in general it's it I think it's actually one of the the coolest leagues that I've been around just because it it really are so many likes like sized and schools that all kind of have the same same type of of dynamic going on. So it it it works out really well. And the non-conference piece, and everyone's taking offense to that obviously. And but you know I I don't think you know we're we're all we're all small schools. It's not like we're gonna go you know play play a bunch of teams that are are totally over our head and and when we are good, you know we went and played Jackson High and Western every year when we were gonna be good. And you know I know Columbia has done that on a regular basis, center's done that on a regular basis and stuff. and you know, the the part that I find the most ridiculous is that, you know, Matt Seidl: Mm. Derek Seidl: apparently all we gotta do like, hey, if we can just go play, you know, a college team, apparently that makes us as good as anybody. So, you if we that that's what that's the trick to becoming good, is just go get your butt beat by fifty by by the NBA's team and then all of a sudden you're good enough to to to be that good. I I didn't know that that's how it worked. I'll have to try that out. But no. Matt Seidl: Yeah. Josh: No, I I we did and I know you just got on, but we did reference some of those years that when you had really good teams you went out and did that and and Travis Gaddy always did that. I mean heck Travis would do it even if he didn't have a good team. He he'd always do those things. There's no question about it. Yeah. Derek Seidl: I I just think j Josh, he's just you gotta lean into it. You gotta you know, you're you're like Darth Vader. You're like the the face of the evil empire over there. You just gotta s just s lean into the the personality or the that kind of role within Jackson County. That's what that's what we gotta go with here. Josh: Well, I can't I can't d well I tell you what, I could do it, but I I struggle to do it because I like so many of the coaches in the league as people. Like as far you know, like the Jeff Turners and the Matt Johns, yourself. I mean, Travis and I used to golf together. I mean th there's a lot of really good guy Jason O'Neal, a good friend of mine who's the Grass League coach now. There's a lot of really good guys and and people in that league that coach basketball. so I that's the only reason I can't lean into it. But you know, if you're viewed as the Darth Vader, that means you're hated because you're successful and things like that. So I I'll accept that. And and let's be honest, nobody hated Lumen un you know, until I got there a few years ago. So Derek Seidl: hated Lumen. That was like the first thing that was the first Matt Seidl: I was gonna say Derek Seidl: thing I was told when I got to Napoleon. It was like this everybody in Jackson County doesn't like Lumen. I didn't get that at first, but you you learn quickly out in this area, yeah. It happens quickly, yeah, for sure. Josh: Now you get it? Yeah, now you get it, yeah. Matt Seidl: a Josh: What what's the saying? They hate us because they ain't us. Is that is that a saying? Okay, okay. Okay, all right. All right. Matt Seidl: They ain't us it's it's a mish it's a Michigan thing, for sure, so Hey w Derek Seidl: goodness. Matt Seidl: another side note, you if I'm not mistaken, you're gonna be on a a committee this winter, which Josh and I have probably always wanted to be on and they're they're taking taking the the less controversial guy of the three here. And what that that's gonna be the basketball rules committee this winter, right? Derek Seidl: yeah, yeah. I I I applied for it in our our A D. when when the like application process came out he sent out a c a message to all the coaches asking if it would be interested in being on sort of on a committee. So I said, Well if they'll let me on either the basketball ones I've got rules or and then basketball site committee and they I got invited to be on the basketball rules committee, so I'm I'm really interested to see how that goes and you know what the process looks like. So Matt Seidl: We'll be sharing your phone number and email address to all of our listeners so they can get Josh: Ha ha. Matt Seidl: you so there there's some feedback prior to the meeting, so you can go in there with a a booklet of notes for for the committee. But no, that's I again I I I I've volunteered to be on that one so many years in a row and I get n I get cricket. So I only I get put on the baseball committee every year, which is which is great. But I'd I'd love to serve on the basketball rules committee. Never, never had the chance. So good luck with that. Keep keep us informed on how that goes. Josh: But in all seriousness, I'm excited that you're on there because we share a lot of the views about the rule changes and and things like that. And hopefully they'll listen to you or you'll have a voice. I hope that works out. Derek Seidl: Yeah, I'm excited to see I kinda how the process goes. And yeah, I I definitely have my opinions on certain things. I I don't know what the topics or conversation will be and kind of where they're at with everything. But yeah, I I definitely have my thoughts on it. I'm not afraid to to voice But I think like Matt Seidl: Mm-hmm. Derek Seidl: I said, I'm just excited to see for being on it for the first time, how they even go about it. 'cause sometimes, you know, on the outside you feel like you don't really you feel like you don't have a voice. So and I guess I I kind of get an inside look at at how it really goes. So Matt Seidl: That's great. So our our main our main topic this in this podcast was kinda like professional development and coaching clinics and we're you we we're kinda tying it in with the B Cam which is coming up this coming weekend and you know it made us think of of you a little bit and and you Josh was talking off off air with you about how you used man used to take in the B Cam clinic. You'd be out there with notes and you were videotaping and I mean you'd be one of the guys that would come for the first speaker and leave with the last speaker and y y you weren't many guys there at Sunday afternoon. But it's It's also kind of interesting, and this is where we wanted to go today. We want you you're you've evolved as a basketball coach, and I know this because I I you know, I've coached I've coached you, I've watched you coach, I saw you play, I know who you played for in high school and college. you've really evolved. I know the you know the the system you were in as a as a player and even coached probably with or used as a coach was kind of more of a let's say sets based and motion offense or continuity offense. and you've really kind of evolved into more of a conceptual basketball coach, especially on the offensive end. I'm kind of curious, like, how did that evolution of you as a basketball coach come about? Derek Seidl: Yeah, you know, it it's it's interesting. I it was I I I've I've always been big on like you're talking about the professional development side. I mean, I I just like to listen and I constantly be learning and trying to find out what the the next best thing is. And I thought, you know, B Cam was was great at serving that purpose. when I first got into coaching, like you said, I I loved listening to every single speaker that was there and Matt Seidl: Yeah. Derek Seidl: you know, I started there were certain guys I liked and I really like vibed with what they were talking about and it was really useful and helpful. And there's certain guys that, you know, not that they were giving out bad stuff, but it's like that doesn't really fit where where I'm at. And you know, really it it kind of became to the point where in that setting I didn't feel like I was getting enough out of it. just because it wasn't like once you start to get your own style, it doesn't always fit what speakers they have on on a given on a given clinic. So I started looking kind of more online for some guys that had had stuff available and I realized like man there's there's so much available out there and I think it just it's just constantly adding to that. so being a being a a guy that kind of moved towards a dribble drive motion a few years ago, when I when I first got to Napoleon, that I think that kind of lended towards you know, kind of a a more of a conceptual style, which is different than than what I played in again more much more of a rigid Matt Seidl: Mm-hmm. Derek Seidl: style, you know, which was fine. I think that you there's a lot of teams that are successful with that running, you know, the even the flex back when I was playing or even, you know, four out one in motion or or being really set heavy, right? You've got all all different ways to go about it. And what I think as a coach it's you know, and I felt this way too. It's like I used to think that you know the the best part about coaching was you get you know, you you have some play that you're run that results in an open three or a layup and you're like, Yes, like there we go. That was because we drew this up and we drilled it at practice and we did all these things and you know, some of the guys I've that I've found and been listening to that I thought were, you know, really I guess influential on me now recently have been talking about how, you know, it's it's more so about setting your players up in a in a system and where they can they can make the plays and and you're kind of almost like trying to make yourself less important where like they don't need to rely on the coach or the system or the play call not as much and and it kind of leans more towards you're trying to to create a situation where they have the the tools to to deal with the situation at hand and that's kind of where I've landed and more on the conceptual conceptual offense type of stuff and and you know there's there's definitely been a ton of stuff online that I've been able to to to to kind of start to pull pieces from different parts and I think it's really helped us kinda land on something that's similar to the dribble drive motion and it takes a lot of those elements that we had with with the teams that were really good at Napoleon my first four years and and we're also layering in some new things to make it just a a little bit more advanced, a little bit hopefully harder to guard and allows to be a little bit more successful. So Josh: Well, I'll follow that up, Matt, if you don't mind. You know, somebody that's played you quite a few times the last few years, Matt Seidl: Mm-hmm. Josh: or at least had prepare to play you, even if we didn't end up playing each other. You know, I've seen the evolution, you know, just in my time at Lumen Christie, where, you know, you had some really good teams those first couple of years that I was at Lumen. And that first year we weren't in your district, but the second year we were. And and I'll tell you, I I would watch a ton of film on you, kind of anticipating playing you if we were lucky enough to get by center, which we were. And I was stealing so many of your sets. You ran so many great sets with that team. but outside of those, you know, handful sets that were outstanding, and your your blob series was incredible back then. and I but outside of those things, you were easier to guard back then than you were last year. You know, so and so I wanted you to take us where you went with some of your concepts. I thought last year's team, obviously not as talented as as the the other group that I'm referring to with Grant and all those guys. But your concepts that you ran, or I would call them actions. You ran so many good actions out of the dribble drive motion. you know, where y you got that the big popping up, you're rubbing off the high post, doing different things. And and I don't know if it was a read or a call, but you guys had different you know, a lot of different actions you did off that. and from a scouting report, that was tougher to prepare for I know it didn't look like it when we were up sixteen to two, but it was tougher to prepare for conceptually than when you had those talented teams. So I I had I had to get that in there. I mean Matt Seidl: Nice dig. Nice n nice shot there, Josh. Yeah, go ahead. Derek Seidl: Yeah, we And and no, and and we obviously we couldn't stop you guys and it wouldn't have mattered what we did offensively in that game. But yeah, yeah. And and and but you know, and if you Josh: It was a talent thing. It had nothing to do with Yeah, yeah, yeah. Derek Seidl: if you compare two years ago to last year, we were able to score more on you guys last year. I think it was really the same Josh: Yeah. Derek Seidl: personnel the s both years, but I think we we were like you said, we were running more stuff. And two years ago we really actually after when we knew we were resetting with some younger guys, we actually kinda went really set heavy and when we played you guys that that year at Hanover, you know, we we had a very successful season with considering the circumstances Josh: Yeah. Derek Seidl: we were in and and we were we were really like rigid. We were very every possession was a set. And if we got a rebound, we're walking it up and trying to and that was you know, by design, we we felt that that was the what gave us the best chance to win. Honestly, if I had to go if I could go back, I probably wouldn't do that again. I we would have just tried doing what we did last year early, and it would have been probably pretty bumpy. But it could you know, the what that what we found, and you guys were the perfect example, what when we played you guys in the district game, every time we make a call, you guys your players are all communicating what's about to happen and we're just eventually bogged down into one on one or or whatever. So like that was one of the big things that last year we we tried to start using triggers. so it doesn't necessarily have to be a call. Like we have things that that that we're looking for if some if something happens on the floor, I don't want to necessarily give them away. But if something were to happen, Matt Seidl: Mm-hmm. Josh: Right. Derek Seidl: it triggers us to do the next thing without even saying anything. So that way we're not relying on me yelling something out from the bench that you or the or the players on the floor can pick up. and also it allows the guys to have a little more freedom. They can they can get to what they want, what they feel is is an advantage that we have at a given time. we also try to play a lot faster. I think one of the big things that that I wish I would have come across across earlier is just that and it's really not even a difference in how you're playing, but just the framing of things. like the idea of dominoes and like playing in advantage. is a is a concept that that was newer to me the last couple of years. I think that's been like revolutionary for me where, you know, it you're the the goal of offense isn't just to run a play. It's to you know, we try to frame the goal of offense as trying to get to dominoes, meaning we're creating some kind of advantage that we can then build into a bigger advantage over time. So you know, as opposed to trying to map something out that's gonna get us a wide open layup, you know, let's create a situation where we can get a downhill drive that's gonna force the defense to help. And then we can move the ball one more. And the next thing you know, we got hopefully a an open an open three or an open layup, which is again obviously the what everybody's looking for nowadays. So just framing it that way with our guys where it's like, hey, if we if we get into dominoes, then we're no longer in an offense. We're not trying to run anything anymore. We're just trying to keep the advantage, keep moving the ball. And I think it's been a really fun way for our guys to play. and we've found some ways that I was again able to pick up from some of the the guys I'd found online. I think savvy the system that is is the one that the the best one I think that I found with it. They They really kind of influenced me on that. Like, you know, it it gave us the ability with a bunch of drills to work on it, but like the ability to just recognize those advantages when you're into dominoes. And like I said, then you're no longer running offense. You're just trying to to move the ball quickly, share the ball, and then find find that that open three or that open layup. And and that's been successful for us. And like said, it's everybody's involved in the offense that way. so and I think the other nice thing about it is it it really feeds into skill development. So You know, the your ceiling is is is really dictated by your skill your skill work. It's more tied in than that. So you're spending more time in practice just trying to work on the reads, the decisions, and your skill as opposed to trying to memorize a a pattern. And I think that's you know something that I think across the board, you watch the college game, the NBA game. I mean, like it it's all conceptual. Part of it's 'cause with the short shot clock, it has to be. Matt Seidl: Mm-hmm. Derek Seidl: but I think it it it translates much more and and the nice part too is I think it's really flexible. Like if if you if your personnel changes year over year, you can change the triggers, you can change the concepts that you're looking to get to and still keep the framework of what you're doing. you know, i it is one of those things where I think it has a really low floor. Like if as a coach, if you don't if if you're you know say, Hey, we're just gonna go play conceptually, Matt Seidl: Mm-hmm. Derek Seidl: like it can just turn into freelance, you know, it's like open gym out there, you might look terrible. But if you're able to to set it up in a in a in a in a nice way, I think you can you can have a really high ceiling. I mean, I I I you know if you watch Michigan, again obviously I'm a big Michigan guy, like I I would say that the way they play is very conceptual. you know, I know Josh Schurtz, from St. Louis is a guy that they play conceptually. Josh: Yes, yes, yeah. Derek Seidl: He openly talks about that all the time. And like I think that that's a perfect example. Like when they have Robbie Avala as their five, you know, they do a bunch of things for him. And then when they bring in their backup five, who's a rim running post threat, you know, they they can adjust their concepts but play the same way. Josh: Wait a minute, I I don't think it's Robbie Abbott. Isn't it like white careem or cre what what is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I forget what it is. But they yeah, they Derek Seidl: Street Kreim Abdul Jabbar or whatever, yeah, yeah, all that stuff, yeah. He's got a bunch of nicknames, yeah. Josh: Yeah, they got a d a bunch of nicknames for But yeah. No, I like I said, your your actions last year, I I there were no calls. Like we we just tried to practice actions and hope we could guard in the moment. It was it was much tougher to defend than sets for sure. Matt Seidl: You're you mentioned some influences already, like some of the college coaches, some of the programs, Marc Cassio and the savvy program, obviously. D are you see are you seeing this trend at the at the high school level? Are you seeing other high school teams doing it more? or is it really more of a college pro thing right now? Derek Seidl: From from my perspective, I think like I think it's definitely like the best college teams, in my opinion, are are all leaning this way. I mean, like I say that and I like if you Yukon doesn't play conceptually, I would I would say. I mean, they there is very patterned in my opinion. Now, there may be some, you know, there's obviously still reads and things occurring, but it's like watching like a science experiment out there with them with all the different movement and stuff. But I think I think you're seeing more and more of that at the upper levels. I I don't I mean, the one nice thing about it is it it's sometimes it You can disguise it in different ways, right? Like it it but I think you could argue that a lot of the teams that just play very loose structured, you like kind of like I said, it kind of looks conceptual. I've I've noticed a ton of teams that are running like the the version of a conceptual offense that we run, like which really kind of comes heavily from the savvy stuff with Tyler Coston and Mark Cassio. I we've seen a couple of teams that are running it. like Southgate Anderson actually we played this summer. They were running like the same exact concepts as us. And like having been a part of that program for a year, like they have all the people that are in it, you know, it's th there's a lot of high school and and even like youth coaches that are, you know, clearly interested in it, but I don't think it's like fully taken off. It's very much like the trendy thing though. you you hear even like the the SSGs and CLA, the you know, short small sided games and constraints led approach, you see those all over the place on social media. Like it's the popular it's the popular like thing to talk about. Like you wanna sound like the the hip, you know, up with the new type of stuff type of coach, like that That tends that seems to be where it's at. But I don't necessarily see it a lot at the high school level yet. At least me. You guys watch as much as I do. Maybe I'm missing it. But I think that's you're gonna see more and more of it over time is my gut feeling, because I think that it's the it's the best way to play. I do think that one unique thing about high school is that there is a bigger talent gap. And I think the one thing about this style is it probably does really lend towards better players equal you, you know. It it's not a way that if you had a a team that's under skilled or under talented that you're gonna be able to beat a you know, a way a much more talented team. You're really more so trying to use it as a way to improve your talent and your skill over time, rather than, you know, trying to slow the game down and beat a team that's way better than you. You know, it it doesn't necessarily lend to that, especially the style we're playing where we're really trying to play fast, which obviously typically doesn't work when you're the you're playing against a team way, way better than you. So that's my take. Matt Seidl: The yeah, the It's interesting because I think you're right, it's a trendy conversation piece. A lot of you always they've heard this for years. Don't don't teach your teams plays, teach them how to play. And and ninety percent of the people who say that have no idea how to teach their kids how to play, so they might as well just teach them plays. That's my observation from afar. I used to love when people would talk about, yeah, my offensive system is the read and react. Well, I've seen your team play and I'm not sure what you're reading and you're definitely not reacting properly. So I would I I suggest You go back to some set life. Again, that's me being critical, as Josh pointed out. I have a tendency to do sometimes. This seems to be the response to all of that. If if you know it'll be interesting in 10 or 15 years, that this is going to become the thing. And then what's next to? I guess I always think of that. You mentioned playing you know style. I was I I chuckle. I know Derek and I have chuckled. Coaches they get so excited when their team takes a charge and you see the the coach with the fist pump and jumping off the ground. And Derek mentioned that sometimes back when he was a set heavy coach, when you run a great set and it works, you got it that great feeling. Wha what gets you excited now, Derek? You mentioned this last night during the Michigan game. Derek Seidl: My my favorite thing in the world now is the you give up a basket and you score before the other team's back. Like we get it out of the net, kick it Matt Seidl: Yeah. Derek Seidl: ahead and you s like, you know, the the the the quick score back. We we we got a handful Josh: Yeah. Derek Seidl: of those last year and that was my that's like the best feeling ever, you know, like they're celebrating going down the floor, you're laying it in. Well Josh: Yeah. And it's the worst feeling as a coach that it happens to because that Matt Seidl: Right. Josh: is exactly how our district game started last year. We scored, ball went out, and it was already in the bucket the other way. It's two to two. And I was ready to use a timeout. I mean, it was Derek Seidl: I think yeah, Tr Tr Tristan Russell was laying one in and then fourteen more points later we're down sixteen to two. But yeah. Josh: But you but it but it but you did. It was like you answered right away. And and we saw that in the film you know that we watched of you. You were playing so fast. You guys did a great job that I'm assuming you're only gonna get better at that. You know, with with the returning players and things like that. Derek Seidl: Yeah. That then again I think like the kids like it too. You know, it's a fun way to Josh: Yeah. Derek Seidl: fun way to play. And we're we're we chart possessions a lot, like so that's part of it too. Like we try to our goal is to get over sixty possessions a game. so we're really trying to feed the pace and our guys have leaned into that and they really like that, so Matt Seidl: All right, well hey man, that's that's that's a great that that like I said, that builds right into professional development and just watching you evolve because I I'm not sure Dexter, Dexter basketball alum that you are would be thrilled with this, you getting excited about, you know, g doing a fast break after giving up a basket 'cause the old Dexter style was to be really pissed off that you gave up a basket and we're probably gonna walk it up and get into a set. So that's how you were brought up playing basketball. I've actually enjoyed watching you evolve. When you guys first went to this two years ago and you'd really did you had a very inexperienced team. I was like, man, I don't know. You know, like I this is interesting and it's growing on me and watching you guys play now. It's it's fun. I've seen you practice. It's a lot of fun watching. I can see how your players are buying into it as well. So Derek Seidl: Yeah, it's fun. And I the other nice thing I think we didn't really touch on, I the nice part about playing this style too is I think it actually lends well to like changing personnel. That's the other reason I think why at the college game you see it a lot. Like when you're teaching in concepts, you know, you you can you don't have to know the whole part necessarily. You can like just piece it together and you can play without the without the full end in mind. you maybe don't have everything that you wanna have in, but you know, with the college game, guys changing teams all the time, I think it does lend well to that too. And even in high school, you get some guys moving from spot to spot, I guess, at times. So Matt Seidl: All right. All right, man. Well thanks thanks for coming on. I hope your fantasy s team stinks today. I I need a big dub by coming off a a bad first week. Is the is the little guy around to say goodbye or are we gonna have to wait till next time? That's all right. Derek Seidl: We'll have to wait till next time. He's still upstairs. He's I I hear his piano going upstairs, so he's having fun. Matt Seidl: if i if i if he's playing and he's on his stomach right now, we're not gonna mess with Josh: So Matt Seidl: him though. Josh: Duncan takes more naps than grandpa is what you're saying. Okay, all right, just check. Okay. Well Derek Seidl: absolutely. Yeah. He's like four a day. It's crazy. Matt Seidl: He took he took four yesterday. You would eat, play, nap, eat, play, nap. It was just a routine all throughout the day, over and over and over. Yeah, it's perfect, yeah. Derek Seidl: Yeah. Yeah, mom's got him on a strict schedule. Very strict schedule, so Josh: Sounds great. That sounds great. Yeah. Okay. Matt Seidl: That's good. All right, man. Thanks a lot. Take care. listeners, appreciate you guys, and we will we'll see you next time.