Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / More Trouble for Alex Murdaugh, Teen Stephen Smith Body Exhume

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More Trouble for Alex Murdaugh, Teen Stephen Smith Body Exhume · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Alex Murdog. Yes, it's not over.
0:16
Speaker 1: His lawyers are vowing to appeal, giving press conferences. But
0:22
Speaker 1: he may have more trouble ahead of him because now
0:26
Speaker 1: we learn that the body of Stephen Smith, the young teen,
0:31
Speaker 1: found dead in the middle of the road. It was
0:33
Speaker 1: kind of like assumed it was a hit and run.
0:37
Speaker 1: Not so fast, Murdog. He is set to be exhumed.
0:43
Speaker 1: And we also finally learned the answer whose hair was
0:47
Speaker 1: in Maggie Murdog's hand at the time of the murder.
0:52
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being
0:55
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation in series m one eleven.
0:58
Speaker 1: But just for old time's sake, let's start with this.
1:11
Speaker 1: Murdoch tell me one forty seven Mozelle Roads. I need
1:15
Speaker 1: to believe me. My wife and Tom Scott bad. Okay,
1:21
Speaker 1: you said forty one forty seven Mobile road in Alton, Sir.
1:27
Speaker 1: He said forty one forty seven Mozelle Road in Alton. Yeah, sir,
1:30
Speaker 1: forty one Mozelle Road. Okay. Yeah, Thursday on the line
1:36
Speaker 1: with me, Okay, Okay, Collis, I have an Alex Murdock
1:41
Speaker 1: on the line. Caller from forty one forty seven Moza Road.
1:45
Speaker 1: He's advising that his wife and child was shot. Okay
1:50
Speaker 1: again forty one forty seven Mozelle Road. I've been up
1:55
Speaker 1: to it now it's bad, Okay are they breathing? No,
2:02
Speaker 1: ma'am and your son, my wife and my thorn. No
2:11
Speaker 1: man there owned ground out at my kennel. I will
2:16
Speaker 1: never be able to listen to that nine one one
2:18
Speaker 1: call the same way again. After seeing Murdog on the
2:24
Speaker 1: stand day after day after day, his direct examination went
2:29
Speaker 1: great than ever, Like the wicked Witch of the West.
2:33
Speaker 1: It all thought it to melt when he got on
2:36
Speaker 1: cross examination. Sitting right behind me in the courtroom. Sometimes, guy,
2:41
Speaker 1: actually feel you breathing. Eric Bland. Eric Bland with me,
2:45
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer throughout the Southeast and beyond and coincidentally
2:51
Speaker 1: representing the family of Gloria Saderfield, another dead body related
2:57
Speaker 1: to the Murdogs. You know, Eric, I kind of had
2:59
Speaker 1: a hard time picking which nine one one call to
3:02
Speaker 1: play first, because when it comes to the Murdocks, there
3:05
Speaker 1: are so many to pick from. You've got the nine
3:08
Speaker 1: one calls and the body cam the night that Maggie
3:11
Speaker 1: and Paul god Rest their souls were found dead at
3:15
Speaker 1: his third home, the Hunting Lodge, as it is called.
3:19
Speaker 1: You've got him getting himself shot in the head as
3:24
Speaker 1: an attempt to make it look like he wasn't the killer,
3:27
Speaker 1: that the killer is still out there wandering around. Then
3:29
Speaker 1: you've got the Gloria Satterfield nine on one call, You've
3:32
Speaker 1: got the Stephen Smith nine on one call. It just goes,
3:35
Speaker 1: oh yeah, in the Mallory Beach nine one one call.
3:38
Speaker 1: I don't know if there are anymore, but there maybe.
3:41
Speaker 1: But when I listened to him, Eric, you are right there.
3:44
Speaker 1: And guys, let me tell you. Eric Bland has tried
3:48
Speaker 1: a lot of cases and he is with bland Richter
3:52
Speaker 1: dot com. Eric, thank you for making time for us
3:57
Speaker 1: in the midst of all of your trials that you've
3:59
Speaker 1: got went on. But after seeing him snodding on a
4:05
Speaker 1: stand and giving evil eyes to people that he didn't
4:08
Speaker 1: agree with, it's I can't really listen to the nine
4:12
Speaker 1: one one call the same way as I did before,
4:15
Speaker 1: after seeing him lie through his teeth, you can't. And
4:17
Speaker 1: you forgot another nine one one call, which is the
4:20
Speaker 1: one with Paul and Morgan as depicted in Netflix, when
4:25
Speaker 1: he drove off the road drinking in twenty seventeen, and
4:29
Speaker 1: let me just add that runoff road nine on one. Yeah, yeah,
4:33
Speaker 1: Morgan called nine one one, and then Maggie and Alex
4:36
Speaker 1: showed up and got mad at her for calling nine
4:38
Speaker 1: one one with a flipped over truck, and they took
4:42
Speaker 1: guns and alcohol away from the truck. So you know,
4:45
Speaker 1: they should start charging him for these nine one one calls.
4:48
Speaker 1: Because okay, just could you just slow down a second
4:51
Speaker 1: right there? Hold on, because I want to analyze something
4:53
Speaker 1: you said. I've got some of us to go through
4:55
Speaker 1: all this evidence, but I just want to touch on that.
4:57
Speaker 1: Alexas terrest joining me crime online dot com to get
5:00
Speaker 1: a reporter. Alexis, you have a young boy that you
5:04
Speaker 1: were raising. I'm proud to say I was there. I
5:07
Speaker 1: was there, Alexis. Can you believe it or not? Alexis,
5:14
Speaker 1: He's at the point, as are my twins. I have
5:17
Speaker 1: to ask him every day. Are any of your friends vaping?
5:19
Speaker 1: Who's vaping? Who's doing e? Siggs? Is? Anybody's smoking? Is
5:23
Speaker 1: anybody smoking pot? Is anybody's drinking? Who? And guess what
5:26
Speaker 1: they are? And they have been since the seventh grade,
5:29
Speaker 1: not the twins praise the lord, but many of their
5:33
Speaker 1: friends from really nice, loving families. Now my point is,
5:37
Speaker 1: alexis you've got this young boy who is adorable, thank you,
5:42
Speaker 1: and what would you do? Because here you hear Eric
5:46
Speaker 1: Blandon he's right. The Murdoch show up and instead of
5:49
Speaker 1: going what in the hey, you're grounded, give me those
5:53
Speaker 1: car keys, they start clearing out guns and alcohol from
5:56
Speaker 1: the car and are angry at the girlfriend for calling
5:59
Speaker 1: nine one one. It is the exact emma of this family.
6:04
Speaker 1: Every single time someone in their family does something wrong,
6:06
Speaker 1: they cover it up, they hide, and then they try
6:09
Speaker 1: to bully the other people into thinking that they are
6:12
Speaker 1: not the ones that are responsible. They did it over
6:14
Speaker 1: and over and over again, and in fact, people the victims,
6:18
Speaker 1: the other victims their family were saying was so strange,
6:21
Speaker 1: like my child was killed in what I thought was
6:24
Speaker 1: a christ and on the street, and Alec Murdle immediately says,
6:28
Speaker 1: you know, why don't you talk to me and I'll
6:29
Speaker 1: defend you. I'll be your lawyers, thinking why on earth
6:32
Speaker 1: would I need a lawyer? But it was him plotting
6:35
Speaker 1: ahead to steal from them. He has a crime mentality
6:39
Speaker 1: from the first second that his own family, anyone in
6:42
Speaker 1: his family come at the crime. I mean, Eric Bland.
6:44
Speaker 1: Back to Eric Bland, Guys, you should have seen this
6:46
Speaker 1: guy at the courthouse. We were all camped out in front. Jackie.
6:49
Speaker 1: I wish you had been there with me, because we
6:52
Speaker 1: were all out there be you know, hundreds of journalists
6:54
Speaker 1: and court watchers, league legals. Bland would come from somewhere.
6:59
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's kind of like he just descended
7:01
Speaker 1: into the area. It was always dressed perfectly to the
7:05
Speaker 1: nines and he would way through the crowd like it's
7:07
Speaker 1: the new Johnny Cochrane. Everybody wants to talk to him.
7:10
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to find out about the sadder Field case.
7:13
Speaker 1: So Eric Bland back to that nine one one call
7:15
Speaker 1: we just heard. Now that I've seen him on the stand,
7:20
Speaker 1: caught in his lies, before there was you know, there
7:24
Speaker 1: was doubt, is it real? What really happened? But now
7:27
Speaker 1: that I've seen him and his lies, now that I
7:31
Speaker 1: know he's lying, to listen to the nine one one call,
7:36
Speaker 1: it just makes me even more angry at what he
7:39
Speaker 1: did and us cover up. Yeah, he played law enforcement,
7:44
Speaker 1: he played his family, he played his friends right there
7:47
Speaker 1: on that nine one one call. Nance you heard him
7:50
Speaker 1: say that he had already touched the bodies, but when
7:52
Speaker 1: he testified at the trial, he said, I didn't touch
7:56
Speaker 1: them until after I made the nine one one call
7:59
Speaker 1: because the nineteen seconds just didn't work out. It. It
8:02
Speaker 1: just goes too quickly for him, and so for him,
8:06
Speaker 1: it's constantly changing the story. As to his children, you know,
8:12
Speaker 1: they overindulged these children. They didn't put correct guard rails
8:16
Speaker 1: and barriers, They didn't properly discipline these children when they
8:21
Speaker 1: acted out. They had a free flow of alcohol at
8:24
Speaker 1: the family. All these things lead to exactly what happened
8:30
Speaker 1: on the night of June seventh. I mean, you don't
8:33
Speaker 1: have to be fleeing to figure out that this is
8:36
Speaker 1: this is the type of family they are. It's not
8:38
Speaker 1: normal time stories with Nancy Grace. What is Mardoch's life now?
9:02
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember doctor Bethany Marshall joining me,
9:06
Speaker 1: high profile psychoanalyst joining us out of la actually Beverly
9:10
Speaker 1: Hills at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. But doctor Bethany,
9:13
Speaker 1: I want you to hear this this next report, because
9:17
Speaker 1: one night my coworker Illie, and I went walking well,
9:24
Speaker 1: after all the programs had ended. It was dark, and
9:28
Speaker 1: we went walking because we had been sitting in the
9:30
Speaker 1: courtroom all day long. And we walked past the jail,
9:34
Speaker 1: the local county jail where he was, you know, awaiting
9:38
Speaker 1: the verdict, awaiting the rest of the trial. And it
9:41
Speaker 1: was the razor wire, just big circles of it all
9:45
Speaker 1: around the top, were like glistening in the night. And
9:49
Speaker 1: we walked down and we're looking, and of course they
9:53
Speaker 1: all the personnel came to see what was happening, because
9:56
Speaker 1: I of course took a video of it, and we're
9:59
Speaker 1: I think, trying to shoot us off. I've been thrown
10:02
Speaker 1: out of so many places in pursuit of justice. But
10:05
Speaker 1: that said, I thought a long time about Alex Murdog
10:09
Speaker 1: and the life he had. I mean, I can't really
10:12
Speaker 1: explain it. You know, when you go to the beach
10:14
Speaker 1: and the air feels so good and you can breathe
10:16
Speaker 1: it so easily. In Collaton County, I guess it's coming
10:20
Speaker 1: in off the ocean from somewhere. But the air is
10:25
Speaker 1: sweet smelling, and unless it's raining or really cold, it's
10:32
Speaker 1: very mild. There's thousands and thousands of acres of Farmland
10:38
Speaker 1: and Woodland. The people there were I mean, overwhelmingly friendly
10:44
Speaker 1: and nice, whether they minute or not. The court personnel
10:49
Speaker 1: just could not have been nicer, And I keep thinking
10:52
Speaker 1: he gave all that up for this. Take a listen
10:56
Speaker 1: to our friends at crime Online. Alex Murdai has been
11:00
Speaker 1: the first days of the rest of his lifetime sentence
11:02
Speaker 1: and a single cell at Kirkland Correctional Institution in Columbia,
11:06
Speaker 1: South Carolina. During his first forty five days of incarceration
11:09
Speaker 1: at Kirkland, Murdah will go through an evaluation process. At
11:13
Speaker 1: the end of the forty five days, he will be
11:15
Speaker 1: assigned permanently to a maximum security prison. During his time
11:19
Speaker 1: at Kirkland, he's being kept away from the general population
11:22
Speaker 1: and is only leaving his cell cell when he is
11:24
Speaker 1: taken for another assessment exam. Now. Prior to this trial, conviction,
11:28
Speaker 1: and sentencing, Murdaugh had been able to develop a certain
11:31
Speaker 1: lifestyle behind bars at the county level. In his jailhouse
11:35
Speaker 1: phone calls to family, he often remarked about inmates wanting
11:38
Speaker 1: to trade their canteen for his shoes. Well, what he
11:41
Speaker 1: was able to get used to before does not exist
11:44
Speaker 1: for him now at Kirkland Correctional Institution. What's happening at
11:48
Speaker 1: Kirkland CI. Take a listen to Dave mack Alec. Murdah's
11:55
Speaker 1: single cell unit is made of concrete with a steel bed,
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Speaker 1: toilet and sink. He is under twenty four hour surveillance.
12:02
Speaker 1: He's being kept away from the general population because prison
12:05
Speaker 1: officials are concerned he might be a target for other
12:08
Speaker 1: inmates considering how prominent his legal family has been. Because
12:12
Speaker 1: of this, his time has spent all alone in his
12:15
Speaker 1: cell unless he's being taken for tests or assessment. He's
12:19
Speaker 1: in the most secure area of the maximum security unit
12:22
Speaker 1: that is used for the most dangerous or most at
12:26
Speaker 1: risk in me. We asked a prison consultant from Wall
12:30
Speaker 1: Street Prison Consultants, Larry Levine, who joined our friends at
12:36
Speaker 1: New's Nation. Take a listen to what he says. They
12:41
Speaker 1: locked the prison down at different points twenty four hours
12:44
Speaker 1: a day, so if they really want to, they can
12:46
Speaker 1: grab him from his cell, take him out of the
12:48
Speaker 1: housing unit, and take him over to Cycher Medical or something.
12:52
Speaker 1: So I don't think that he's in there all day long,
12:56
Speaker 1: but he'll have maybe an hour a day of free
12:58
Speaker 1: time that he can get out of him to sell.
13:00
Speaker 1: The only difference is the guy's not in GP, he's
13:04
Speaker 1: not in general population, he's in protective custody. So I
13:08
Speaker 1: guess his new best friend is whatever cop happens to
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Speaker 1: be on shift who's watching him. To doctor Bethany Marshall
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Speaker 1: at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com, doctor Bethany, I don't
13:20
Speaker 1: know in LA and Beverly Hills if they ever watch
13:24
Speaker 1: Andy Mayberry, but we grew up on it. Think about
13:28
Speaker 1: OTIS and the Mayberry County Jail, and it's not just Mayberry.
13:34
Speaker 1: It's not just Carlton County. It's not just a lot
13:40
Speaker 1: of county where Brian Coberger is being held, or the
13:45
Speaker 1: county jail where cult mom Laurie Valo is being held.
13:49
Speaker 1: All county jails that are in small jurisdictions are very
13:55
Speaker 1: My experience has been very let's just say warm, compared
14:02
Speaker 1: to a CI correctional institute. First, when you're in holding
14:08
Speaker 1: waiting for trial, you stay at the county jail. Your friends,
14:12
Speaker 1: your family can come visit. You may even know people there,
14:16
Speaker 1: you may even know the wardens. You're all from the
14:18
Speaker 1: same county, Especially if it's a small jurisdiction where Coburger
14:23
Speaker 1: is who's charged with murdering four Idaho University students. They
14:28
Speaker 1: wake them up with soft music in the morning. I'm
14:31
Speaker 1: not kidding. They have pizza night on Friday night. He
14:35
Speaker 1: can meet to have mass whenever he wants. He has
14:40
Speaker 1: his own cable TV in his cell. Yes. Now, when
14:47
Speaker 1: you go to a CI correctional institute, you're not in
14:52
Speaker 1: Kansas anymore. It's much more bleak. But what I want
14:56
Speaker 1: to ask you, doctor Bethany, and then I'm going to
14:58
Speaker 1: go back to Eric and Crispin doctor doctor Kendel. Crown's
15:01
Speaker 1: not you yet, but Crisp and jump in whenever you
15:04
Speaker 1: want the dichotomy of that beautiful life he had. They're
15:10
Speaker 1: in Colleton County, I mean Mozelle, the hunting lodge, sitting
15:15
Speaker 1: on nearly two thousand square acres. It's beautiful, that's right.
15:20
Speaker 1: Then he's got the beach house in Islington and then
15:24
Speaker 1: the other residents. Has got a thriving law practice. I
15:29
Speaker 1: mean Bland can tell you a law practice takes generations
15:33
Speaker 1: to build, at least a law practice like that one.
15:36
Speaker 1: He gave it all up for this to sit at
15:40
Speaker 1: Kirkland Diagnostic that's right, Nancy. I've given so much thought
15:44
Speaker 1: to this. What is his like going to be like
15:47
Speaker 1: in prison as opposed to the life he had. What
15:50
Speaker 1: are the psychological stressors for him going to be And
15:53
Speaker 1: as you said, his life as an attorney, it was limitless.
15:58
Speaker 1: He had absolutely no boundaries. He conned everyone around him.
16:04
Speaker 1: He was an addict. And I don't know if you
16:06
Speaker 1: caught in the Netflix special that Paul's friends said that
16:10
Speaker 1: at the watermelon parade, he would pull all the high
16:14
Speaker 1: school kids into his office and offer them alcohol. He
16:17
Speaker 1: had handles, they said, I'd never heard that term before,
16:20
Speaker 1: handles of alcohol like hard liquor in his office, and
16:24
Speaker 1: he would supply that to all the kids. And now
16:28
Speaker 1: he said, Paul, are you saying Paul or Alex? Pauliti? Okay?
16:32
Speaker 1: Alex would get Paul's friends to come into his office
16:38
Speaker 1: and then he would mix drinks for them. He had
16:42
Speaker 1: handles of liquor in his office. And that is just
16:46
Speaker 1: but one example of the limitless life. Alex Murdoch lived
16:51
Speaker 1: where he thought he could do whatever he wanted to
16:53
Speaker 1: do without consequences, even addicting miners in his community. So
17:00
Speaker 1: think about the sensory overload he's going to face. He's
17:03
Speaker 1: had a housekeeper taking care of his every need. He
17:07
Speaker 1: has a wife who didn't work, who arranged everything socially
17:11
Speaker 1: for him. He conned everyone he meant met. There were
17:15
Speaker 1: no limits and boundaries, and now he's not going to
17:18
Speaker 1: be able to con a prison guard. He's not going
17:22
Speaker 1: to have that beautiful gourmet food. He's not going to
17:26
Speaker 1: have luxury linens on his bed. So I think there's
17:30
Speaker 1: going to be a certain trauma involved in this as
17:33
Speaker 1: his whole being, his whole Psyche reorients itself to a
17:38
Speaker 1: different kind of life. You know, Nancy, how we live
17:40
Speaker 1: our lives becomes so normalized, it gets baked into our DNA.
17:45
Speaker 1: In fact, there's a term called hedonic adaptation, and that
17:49
Speaker 1: means that as our lives get better and better, we
17:52
Speaker 1: have increased hedonism, which means a desire for pleasure. We
17:57
Speaker 1: adapt to the pleasure in our lives and the pleasure
18:00
Speaker 1: becomes normal. Well, what happens when every pleasure in life
18:04
Speaker 1: is ripped away and it's replaced with the steel cot
18:07
Speaker 1: and people who don't believe you anymore. He's going to
18:10
Speaker 1: have to really adapt to a whole different environment. This
18:14
Speaker 1: is going to take years. He's going to be in
18:15
Speaker 1: an adaptation process for the rest of his life. Guys,
18:18
Speaker 1: hold on, Eric Bland, I'm coming right back to you.
18:21
Speaker 1: But Sydney, thank you, Sydney. You know how I love
18:25
Speaker 1: jail menus is Sydney in here there she is? Thank you. Okay,
18:28
Speaker 1: let's know this, guys. Breakfast, apple drink, hard boiled eggs,
18:32
Speaker 1: pancake with grits with margarine, biscuits, coffee and milk. That
18:37
Speaker 1: doesn't sound too bad with me to me. Lunch chili
18:40
Speaker 1: with beings, steamed rye, salad, bar, cornbread, iced tea, apple drink. Again,
18:46
Speaker 1: I would love somebody to give me that dinner. Bray's
18:50
Speaker 1: turkey with noodles, lima beans, biscuits, cake, murdog is having
18:55
Speaker 1: cake and pancakes and salad, bar, iced tea and milk. Okay,
19:01
Speaker 1: that doesn't sound that bad to me, Eric Bland. No,
19:04
Speaker 1: but I'm just so you know, the jail that he
19:07
Speaker 1: was in for the last year and a half, the
19:10
Speaker 1: Alvin s Glen the County prison, is a very dangerous prison.
19:16
Speaker 1: Dangerous jail, Nancy, There's been a lot of talk about
19:19
Speaker 1: Colinton County jail. No, I'm talking about the one he
19:22
Speaker 1: was in. So he's used to some very harsh conditions.
19:25
Speaker 1: A lot of people have died in the last year
19:27
Speaker 1: and a half. It's understaffed, there's gangs in there, and
19:30
Speaker 1: now it may come under federal supervision. So he hold
19:33
Speaker 1: on just a moment. Wait, Wait, what's the name of
19:36
Speaker 1: the facility? Alvin s Glen. That's what he was in
19:39
Speaker 1: up until the trial. Now he was in Colinton County,
19:43
Speaker 1: which is a better jail, during the trial. But now
19:46
Speaker 1: he's in Kirkland and getting assessed. And this assessment is
19:50
Speaker 1: so important for him, but also the state. Remember the
19:54
Speaker 1: state does not want to have him injured in prison
19:57
Speaker 1: within the first ninety eight No, that's gonna really bad
20:00
Speaker 1: for them. Correct. And when you say diagnostic, guys, this
20:03
Speaker 1: is what that means. You're in the county jail typically
20:06
Speaker 1: while you wait for trial. Then after you're convicted, you
20:10
Speaker 1: go to a diagnostic center, which sounds nice, right. One
20:14
Speaker 1: of them I saw is called the reception center, like
20:17
Speaker 1: you're going to have cookies and punch when you get there. No,
20:20
Speaker 1: it's basically where you go while they figure out what
20:24
Speaker 1: penitentiary you're going to serve the rest of your life
20:26
Speaker 1: in So that's the diagnosis. It means where they're going
20:30
Speaker 1: to send you Go ahead, Eric, Yeah. They have to
20:32
Speaker 1: figure out nance how many people in that prison that
20:37
Speaker 1: he's going through were convicted in the fourteenth Judicial Circuit,
20:41
Speaker 1: how many people were convicted by his father that are
20:46
Speaker 1: serving out life sentences. They also have to worry about
20:49
Speaker 1: his own psychological safety. You know, is he as suicide risk?
20:53
Speaker 1: Own psychological safety. Look, look, we already saw fail at
20:57
Speaker 1: his claimed attempt at suicide. That is going to happen, Okay,
21:01
Speaker 1: his life, right, he loves he loves himself too much
21:06
Speaker 1: to kill himself. That was Bland. I agree with you
21:11
Speaker 1: and Bethany go ahead, Bland. Yeah, that was an attempt
21:14
Speaker 1: to divert law enforcement away from UM thinking that he
21:18
Speaker 1: was the suspect for the murders on June seventh, and
21:21
Speaker 1: that there was you know, cartel people or somebody out there.
21:25
Speaker 1: But this sixty day assessment is so vitally important because
21:30
Speaker 1: they have to determine where to put him so that
21:33
Speaker 1: he is safe and also other prisoners are safe, because
21:37
Speaker 1: it could create a serious situation if people want to
21:40
Speaker 1: get retribution against him UM and the state doesn't want
21:45
Speaker 1: that kind of liability. Obviously they don't want to not
21:47
Speaker 1: a right. I got it, I got it, I got
21:49
Speaker 1: I've got to get to Stephen Smith. But Robert Crispin
21:52
Speaker 1: joining me, private investigator, former Federal Task Force officer usd
21:56
Speaker 1: oj d EA in Miami, never lack a business there.
22:00
Speaker 1: You've seen your share of homicide investigations and your share
22:05
Speaker 1: of finding and rousing people out of the jail. You
22:07
Speaker 1: can find him at Crispin's Investigations dot com. Crispin, just
22:13
Speaker 1: give me a thumbnail about what life in the penitentiary,
22:17
Speaker 1: not the College County jail is going to be like
22:19
Speaker 1: for murdog Oh Nancy, this is about to get so
22:23
Speaker 1: bad for him that the general public will probably never
22:27
Speaker 1: really understand how bad it's about to give for him.
22:30
Speaker 1: And I have been in so many prisons to interview people,
22:34
Speaker 1: and going in, even as a Federal Asian, to go
22:37
Speaker 1: to talk to somebody. It is the most eerie, uncomfortable
22:41
Speaker 1: and unsettling experiences. I hate it. Wait until I get out,
22:45
Speaker 1: I'll tell you. I remember one feeling when I came
22:47
Speaker 1: out of the Fulton County jail, which in itself is
22:51
Speaker 1: not that bad compared to other jails. I was never
22:54
Speaker 1: so happy to see an ugly pothole parking lot in
22:58
Speaker 1: my life because I was out of that jail. It's
23:02
Speaker 1: just when they clang those doors shut. It's a feeling
23:05
Speaker 1: that I will never forget Crispin, especially for somebody of
23:10
Speaker 1: his magnitude in society. And once you forgot when you
23:13
Speaker 1: were talking blah blah his magnitude in society, Well wait
23:18
Speaker 1: until his menu changes, because all your chili and all
23:22
Speaker 1: your apple sauces in everything. If you want to know
23:25
Speaker 1: the reality of what really happens in jail, his chili
23:29
Speaker 1: is coming with a side of cockroaches. Trust me. Somewhere
23:33
Speaker 1: along the line, someone is going to go after him,
23:36
Speaker 1: and that's reality. His grilled cheese sandwich is going to
23:39
Speaker 1: have a bite out of it. Wow, I wonder what.
23:42
Speaker 1: I wonder what Maggie and Paul are having for lunch?
23:44
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, nothing, they're dead. Sorry, don't care. And this
23:49
Speaker 1: is going to be the best sentence for him, for
23:55
Speaker 1: his life to deteriorate and crumble before his very eyes
23:59
Speaker 1: on the way he's about to be treated. Unfortunately, he
24:02
Speaker 1: didn't get the duck penalty, And I agree with Bland.
24:05
Speaker 1: It was never an attempt to suicide. It was an
24:07
Speaker 1: attempt to make it look like he was trying to
24:12
Speaker 1: act like the real killer of Maggie and Paul were
24:14
Speaker 1: still out there and finally coming after him. Time stories
24:33
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, I've gotten to get into Steven Smith,
24:37
Speaker 1: but very quickly Maggie and Paul alexis terres Chuck Crime
24:42
Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter. Much was made about the
24:46
Speaker 1: hair in Maggie's hand. It was a few strands of hair.
24:51
Speaker 1: Can you explain we have now learned from first responders
24:55
Speaker 1: what that hair was, and that's why the defense didn't
24:58
Speaker 1: make that big of a deal about out it go ahead. Well,
25:01
Speaker 1: we all thought obviously that it was a clump of
25:05
Speaker 1: Alex hair because he had a full head of hair
25:06
Speaker 1: back then. We thought it was something she grabbed him
25:08
Speaker 1: and fought off. It ends up, But according to the
25:12
Speaker 1: forensics of it, when Maggie was shot and she shot
25:15
Speaker 1: in the head, tufts of her hair blew off of
25:18
Speaker 1: her head. She had a full, very long blonde hair
25:21
Speaker 1: looked very thick from all the pictures, and tufts of
25:24
Speaker 1: her hair actually flew and were in her hand, So
25:27
Speaker 1: it was not a defensive thing where she ripped the
25:30
Speaker 1: hair out of her husband's head as he was trying
25:32
Speaker 1: to murder her. But it was just a result of
25:35
Speaker 1: the way that he fired the gun at her head.
25:37
Speaker 1: It blew her head a heart and if I blew
25:39
Speaker 1: her hair off into her hand. Doctor Kendall Crowns joining
25:42
Speaker 1: US Chief Medical Examiner at Tarrant County in Fort Worth
25:46
Speaker 1: Lectures University, Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School,
25:52
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us. Doctor
25:54
Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, I really have you on today to talk
25:57
Speaker 1: about eximations. But I noticed at trial the defense didn't
26:02
Speaker 1: make a very big deal out of the hair in
26:04
Speaker 1: Maggie's hand, and I was wondering why, and the state
26:08
Speaker 1: never really even responded what they said about it in
26:12
Speaker 1: closing statements something alike, they never tested the hair. Well,
26:16
Speaker 1: of course, we all know the defense can also test
26:18
Speaker 1: whatever they want to test as well. They didn't test
26:21
Speaker 1: it either because we all knew it was Maggie's here,
26:23
Speaker 1: or they did anyway. But the defense was right in
26:27
Speaker 1: arguing they didn't test it because they were trying to
26:30
Speaker 1: attack the state's investigation doctor Kendel Crown's have you ever
26:35
Speaker 1: seen when someone is shot in the head that their
26:37
Speaker 1: hair blows in different directions at the crime scene. Yes,
26:41
Speaker 1: I have. So the wife was shot with a rifle,
26:46
Speaker 1: and usually rifles they carry a lot of energy. When
26:50
Speaker 1: the bullet hits the head, you have to think about
26:54
Speaker 1: the head as the skull is kind of this hard
26:57
Speaker 1: circular trap that cannot deal with much expansion, And when
27:04
Speaker 1: the rifle bullet enters the skull, it puts all this
27:08
Speaker 1: energy into the skull and then the skull rapidly expands
27:12
Speaker 1: and explodes. And when it explodes, it rips your scalp
27:15
Speaker 1: apart and can send portions of your scalp and your
27:18
Speaker 1: hair all over the place. So usually with high powered
27:21
Speaker 1: rifles shotguns, we see a fair amount of scalp disruption
27:27
Speaker 1: in the hair getting in different areas. You know, when
27:30
Speaker 1: Alexis Treshchuk was talking about mag you have a picture
27:33
Speaker 1: of their family. It's the one where she has on
27:35
Speaker 1: the mink coat and they're all dressed in Texas to
27:39
Speaker 1: go somewhere, and Alexis to talking about her thick head,
27:44
Speaker 1: thick blonde hair, and I was just thinking about how
27:47
Speaker 1: she lost her life. And then I listen to him
27:51
Speaker 1: lying on that nine one one call. It actually makes
27:55
Speaker 1: my chest just clinch up hearing him lie about them. Okay, guys,
27:59
Speaker 1: he's got more problems headed his way. In the name
28:03
Speaker 1: of Stephen Smith and Gloria Satterfield. It ain't over yet.
28:09
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut ten te. Oh my gosh,
28:12
Speaker 1: We've been waiting on this forever. Sandy Smith wakes up
28:16
Speaker 1: every morning thinking about her son Stephen and her years
28:19
Speaker 1: long search for answers. And they said he was shot
28:23
Speaker 1: in a hedge, and then it turned out it was
28:27
Speaker 1: a hit and run, and then he was beat up
28:29
Speaker 1: and showed. The story just kept changing. Stephen Smith's body
28:32
Speaker 1: was found along Sandy Run Road in Hampton County in
28:35
Speaker 1: July of twenty fifteen. The official cause of death at
28:39
Speaker 1: the time was that Smith died of a hit and run.
28:42
Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe it, but he when they told
28:46
Speaker 1: me hit and run, I said, that's impossible, because Stephen
28:48
Speaker 1: Wolton have been walking in the road to start with.
28:51
Speaker 1: He would have cut through the woods, he would not
28:53
Speaker 1: have been in the highway. And listen to more from
28:56
Speaker 1: our friends at WYF With no arrest made that search
29:00
Speaker 1: for answers continues and the case is reopened. In June
29:04
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division announced
29:08
Speaker 1: that they were reopening the investigation into Stephen Smith's death.
29:12
Speaker 1: In a statement, then they set the decision to look
29:15
Speaker 1: into the death was based on information gathered during the
29:19
Speaker 1: murder investigation into the deaths of Paul and Maggie Murdoch.
29:24
Speaker 1: For Sandy Smith, it could be another step closer to
29:27
Speaker 1: justice or more unanswered questions. It's like he's a nobody
29:33
Speaker 1: because we're poor people. That was until the murders of
29:36
Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul Murdoch in June of twenty twenty one.
29:39
Speaker 1: That same month, the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division reopened
29:43
Speaker 1: Smith's case based on information they had gathered during that
29:46
Speaker 1: initial murder investigation. What that information is, though, still has
29:51
Speaker 1: yet to be revealed. SLED reports they have made progress
29:55
Speaker 1: in the last year and a half, but to this day,
29:57
Speaker 1: no suspects have been formally named in real to Smith's death.
30:01
Speaker 1: No interviews with anyone from the Murdoch family are ever
30:04
Speaker 1: noted in highway patrols documents. Alexis Terrestschuk has been following
30:09
Speaker 1: the Stephen Smith investigation very closely. She's joining us from
30:13
Speaker 1: crime online dot Com. Alexis terrest shuck. Please refresh everyone's
30:18
Speaker 1: recollection regarding the death of this young man, Stephen Smith. So,
30:24
Speaker 1: Stephen Smith was found in the middle of the road
30:27
Speaker 1: with his clothes on, but like one shoe missing, and
30:32
Speaker 1: but it was right next to the Murdoch property. So
30:37
Speaker 1: someone from the Murdoch family found him. Alex called, they
30:40
Speaker 1: called the police, they came. Everybody said, oh it was
30:44
Speaker 1: you know, it was a hit and run. This is
30:46
Speaker 1: a terrible thing. Before in the middle of the road,
30:48
Speaker 1: killed in a hit and run accident. The mother, she
30:51
Speaker 1: was called to the scene and Alec even says to her,
30:53
Speaker 1: you know what, why don't why don't you try to
30:55
Speaker 1: hire me as an attorney. I'll try to get chief
30:57
Speaker 1: some money for this best For a couple of years later,
31:01
Speaker 1: people start talking. Everybody says, wait a minute, wait a minute,
31:03
Speaker 1: wait a minute, this wasn't a murder. This is not
31:06
Speaker 1: I mean, this wasn't an accident. This was a murder.
31:08
Speaker 1: People are saying. There are rumors that Paul but Buster
31:13
Speaker 1: Murdo and Stephen were in a relationship and Stephen was
31:18
Speaker 1: openly day and his mom that he had told her
31:20
Speaker 1: that he was in a relationship with somebody, but he
31:22
Speaker 1: couldn't say who it was because it was a prominent
31:24
Speaker 1: family and he didn't want anybody and that person didn't
31:27
Speaker 1: want anybody to know. She has thought for all of
31:31
Speaker 1: these years that he was murdered. Everybody in the town
31:34
Speaker 1: thought that the murder has had something to do with
31:36
Speaker 1: this murder, and she has finally, after this case is done,
31:39
Speaker 1: after Alex has been convicted of killing his wife and
31:41
Speaker 1: his son, she has raised enough money to have his
31:44
Speaker 1: body exhumed and have an independent new autopsy done. And
31:49
Speaker 1: this is not something actually that the state is paying for.
31:51
Speaker 1: They're not doing it. They're not saying, well, our investigation
31:54
Speaker 1: is going so well that we need to do this
31:56
Speaker 1: for evidence. So it's very very very slowly moving along.
32:00
Speaker 1: But thanks to this case, thanks to the generosity of
32:03
Speaker 1: so many people, almost a thousand people donated to just
32:07
Speaker 1: go fund made that they she has enough money to
32:10
Speaker 1: have his body brought up and to determine how he
32:12
Speaker 1: was killed. And it's probably not going to be just
32:15
Speaker 1: from a car coming in. Man and listen to Blayer
32:18
Speaker 1: sayba wcsc somebody out there knows something. It's July eighth,
32:23
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. A driver on his way to work calls
32:26
Speaker 1: nine to one one to report a body lying in
32:29
Speaker 1: the middle of the street on Sandy Run Road. The
32:32
Speaker 1: victim turns out to be nineteen year old Stephen Smith,
32:35
Speaker 1: a shy teen, but a funny and outgoing one to
32:38
Speaker 1: his inner circle. Smith was openly gay in the small rule,
32:42
Speaker 1: South Carolina town he grew up in. The blunt force
32:45
Speaker 1: trauma to his head appears as a possible gunshot wound
32:48
Speaker 1: to the first responders on the scene, but the coroner's
32:51
Speaker 1: office later rules his death a hit and run. He
32:54
Speaker 1: also has injuries to his left arm and left hand,
32:57
Speaker 1: and there are some more details Before I go to
33:00
Speaker 1: you Eric Bland and Robert Crispin regarding the hit and run.
33:04
Speaker 1: Take a listen to more from Blair Sayball. Smith's carr
33:08
Speaker 1: was found about three miles away on Bamberg Highway. It
33:11
Speaker 1: won't start, but investigators find his wallet inside the gas cap,
33:16
Speaker 1: also unscrewed. His family reports he would have never left
33:19
Speaker 1: the car, calling him skittish, and his twin sister, Stephanie,
33:23
Speaker 1: also tells authorities that her brother had become very secretive
33:26
Speaker 1: about two weeks prior to the incident and last take
33:30
Speaker 1: a listen to Blair Sayball. Documents show investigators fielding tips
33:34
Speaker 1: about the Murdoch family in the days and months following
33:37
Speaker 1: his death. The first tip comes in early August, suggesting
33:41
Speaker 1: swirling rumors of a relationship between Smith and Buster Murdoch
33:45
Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch's eldest and now only surviving son. An investigator
33:49
Speaker 1: also feels a tip about another possible suspect, but that
33:52
Speaker 1: tipster tells them he passed along the information at the
33:55
Speaker 1: request of a well known family patriarch. Former solicitor Randy Murdoch.
34:00
Speaker 1: Andrew says in the record she has the Murdoch name
34:03
Speaker 1: is mentioned forty times. Where there's smoke, there's fire, there
34:07
Speaker 1: has to be something to it. Eventually, the leads dried
34:11
Speaker 1: up and the case went cold, joining me from the
34:14
Speaker 1: jurisdiction as high profile lawyer Eric Bland, attorney for the
34:19
Speaker 1: housekeeper Gloria Satterfield, who also died at the Murdoch property.
34:24
Speaker 1: What is happening with Steven Smith's case? Since when did
34:28
Speaker 1: a mother of little means have to go on go
34:34
Speaker 1: fund me to raise money for an eximation of her son. Well,
34:38
Speaker 1: let me let me just correct some misperceptions. Okay. One,
34:42
Speaker 1: you just can't exoom a body. You have to get
34:44
Speaker 1: a court order to do it. So I'm going to
34:48
Speaker 1: assist with us. I think some other attorneys in making
34:51
Speaker 1: that petition to Alex was not at the scene. It
34:55
Speaker 1: was Randy Murdle, the brother, and Randy Murdoll called Sandy
34:58
Speaker 1: Smith and and offered his services, and she was a
35:02
Speaker 1: little perplexed as to why she would need his services. Three,
35:08
Speaker 1: he was supposed to go to Key West that weekend
35:12
Speaker 1: to go fishing, and he didn't tell his mother who
35:15
Speaker 1: he was going with. But what he said is it
35:17
Speaker 1: was a very prominent person. So something was discovered by
35:23
Speaker 1: SLED when they began investigating Maggie and Paul. We don't
35:26
Speaker 1: know whether it was phone evidence, either on Paul's phone
35:31
Speaker 1: that may have postdated to death, or Alex's phone or
35:35
Speaker 1: someone's phone. There may have been a statement or something.
35:39
Speaker 1: And we certainly learned a lot about phones in this trial.
35:42
Speaker 1: Nancy and SLED could issue warrants for people's phones because
35:47
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a lot of post depth chatter. It's
35:51
Speaker 1: clear that he wouldn't have left his wallet in his
35:53
Speaker 1: car if he was going to get gas. His mother
35:55
Speaker 1: also has talked publicly that he was aware that it
36:01
Speaker 1: was risky where he lived, being a gay young man,
36:04
Speaker 1: and so he would not have walked in the middle
36:06
Speaker 1: of the road. He wouldn't have taken the route that
36:10
Speaker 1: the police think that he took where he was ultimately dropped.
36:14
Speaker 1: And it's obvious to everybody, Nancy, that he wasn't hit
36:17
Speaker 1: by a car that had happened somewhere else. So I
36:21
Speaker 1: think if we exhumed the body and then we start
36:24
Speaker 1: doing some phone searching, I believe there's going to be
36:27
Speaker 1: chattered on people's phones that posty his death. I mean,
36:32
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm in an echo chamber. We're at
36:36
Speaker 1: very close to a Murdoch property on a route that
36:41
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have taken, just like when Alex Murdog cat
36:44
Speaker 1: himself shot in the head connected to reportedly someone in
36:50
Speaker 1: the Murdoc family leading up to an event that weekend
36:55
Speaker 1: away leading up to the Malory Beach case and the
36:59
Speaker 1: potential force as in the Maggie and Paul murders. I
37:04
Speaker 1: mean shot, we believe, possibly shot in the head, I mean,
37:10
Speaker 1: and then a Murdog showing up like in Mallory Beach
37:15
Speaker 1: and in Saderfield offering to take care of the case.
37:19
Speaker 1: I mean, I think and I make a call. It's
37:23
Speaker 1: like an echo chamber. Yes, just like an offending pattern. Okay,
37:28
Speaker 1: we see offending patterns with um sex, predators, with peace
37:32
Speaker 1: with robbers, but this is an offending pattern that the
37:35
Speaker 1: entire family was engaged in. It's like every human being
37:39
Speaker 1: in that town was a potential mark, a potential person
37:42
Speaker 1: who could die and then they could file, you know,
37:45
Speaker 1: some kind of a lawsuit, some kind of acclaim and
37:48
Speaker 1: then take money from the trust account. It's like a
37:50
Speaker 1: simple pattern that comes up again and again. Robert Crispin,
37:54
Speaker 1: private investigator. You can find him at Crispin Investigations dot com. Robert,
38:00
Speaker 1: what should have been done at the Stephen Smith scene? Well,
38:04
Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, to kind of understand on all this,
38:06
Speaker 1: you kind of got to go back to when he
38:08
Speaker 1: was hit on that road those years ago. You know,
38:13
Speaker 1: back then when nobody suspected anything with the Murdoch family.
38:18
Speaker 1: You know, his death could kind of be explained. To
38:22
Speaker 1: be honest with you, that head injury could be consistent
38:24
Speaker 1: to a passing truck mirror and I don't know how
38:28
Speaker 1: tall he was, but clearly I mean, I've I've seen
38:31
Speaker 1: things where people have pedestrians on the road and get
38:34
Speaker 1: hit by a rear view mirror and go fly and
38:36
Speaker 1: they got a head injury. And then you compound something
38:41
Speaker 1: like that with the shoes off. Sure, your shoes come
38:43
Speaker 1: off when you get hit by a car, of course,
38:46
Speaker 1: but what's different in this case is the car, the shoe.
38:52
Speaker 1: The pattern looks like he was dumped there, and I
38:57
Speaker 1: think that's probably now looking back, they'd probably say he
39:01
Speaker 1: was dumped there, But as an investigator back in twenty fifteen,
39:05
Speaker 1: they probably thought he was hit by a car. And
39:06
Speaker 1: then you have a high profile person showing up and
39:09
Speaker 1: being part of the scene. Nobody suspects anything. Yeah, why
39:12
Speaker 1: did he suddenly show up? Doctor Kennel Crowns joining me,
39:15
Speaker 1: Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth. What do
39:19
Speaker 1: you make of this scene where Stephen Smith was found dead?
39:23
Speaker 1: I mean, I find it hard to believe that he'd
39:25
Speaker 1: leave his wad in his car to go get gas
39:27
Speaker 1: and be walking in the middle of the road near
39:30
Speaker 1: a Murdock property. I mean, what do you expect an
39:33
Speaker 1: exhimation can show, let me narrow the question, Doctor Crowns,
39:37
Speaker 1: when exhimations can still show injuries on the body, specifically
39:41
Speaker 1: injuries to the skeletal system. So if his head is
39:45
Speaker 1: injured and it's hit by a sideview mirror from a passing,
39:50
Speaker 1: that would have to be like a pickup truck or suv,
39:52
Speaker 1: because I'm sure it wasn't a semi truck. You would
39:56
Speaker 1: see fractures of the skulls. Still, that would be con
40:00
Speaker 1: system was being struck in the head by a hard object.
40:03
Speaker 1: I mean, the area that he was found doesn't sound
40:06
Speaker 1: like it was a highway, so you're not dealing with
40:08
Speaker 1: highway speed. It's odd that he's in the middle of
40:13
Speaker 1: the road. It's odd that if he's hit, you know,
40:16
Speaker 1: by a very fast moving car, that there wasn't more
40:20
Speaker 1: a tearing of the clothes. It's odd that he's in
40:23
Speaker 1: the middle of the road and not ran over by
40:26
Speaker 1: another automobile. Youre ryan Is clothes were intact, Doctor Crowns,
40:30
Speaker 1: His shoes were on, he had clearhead trauma injury. There
40:35
Speaker 1: was no broken glass from a car, no car part, nothing,
40:39
Speaker 1: And he has like blue plaint chips or something on him,
40:44
Speaker 1: which doesn't fit for being hit by a side view mirror.
40:46
Speaker 1: It's there's a lot of inconsistencies for being hit by
40:50
Speaker 1: a car, but an exhimation can still the skeletal system
40:55
Speaker 1: will still be intact, and they can still look at
40:57
Speaker 1: the fracture patterns on the skull was put in. There
41:00
Speaker 1: wasn't the injury. Wasn't the injury at the back that
41:03
Speaker 1: they had, which means that there was maybe an element
41:06
Speaker 1: of surprise if somebody murdered him, you know, Eric Bland.
41:09
Speaker 1: Another good point made by doctor Bethany Marshall and doctor
41:12
Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns. Of course, Eric, did you say a group
41:15
Speaker 1: of lawyers are going to help in getting a court
41:18
Speaker 1: order for the exlimation now that there's enough money to
41:20
Speaker 1: pay for it. Correct, We're gonna make them a motion,
41:23
Speaker 1: and we're also going to put public pressure on Sled
41:27
Speaker 1: to actually stay where they are in the investigation. I
41:31
Speaker 1: got to ask you something else before we run out
41:33
Speaker 1: of time, Eric Bland, When is Gloria Satterfield going to
41:37
Speaker 1: be exhumed? Don't know? You know, I've had why Well,
41:41
Speaker 1: they've asked, They've asked us twice. We've agreed, I don't
41:45
Speaker 1: always asked who twice? What Led has asked the family
41:49
Speaker 1: through me, would we consent for an actimation, and we
41:52
Speaker 1: said yes because obviously they would go to court and
41:55
Speaker 1: get that. The difference is he did fault. She fell
41:59
Speaker 1: down this stairs. Now, whether she was pushed or she tripped,
42:03
Speaker 1: the injuries are going to be basically the same. They're
42:07
Speaker 1: gonna be these closed and open head injuries with broken ribs.
42:11
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure what it's going to show. The
42:14
Speaker 1: two witnesses, Paul Maggie are dead, Alex isn't going to talk,
42:19
Speaker 1: and the farm hand came up fifteen minutes later, so
42:23
Speaker 1: Lester was post death discussions. I'm not sure what an
42:28
Speaker 1: exlimation of glory is going to show. Now. I do
42:30
Speaker 1: think an exlimation is Stephen is gonna be more telling.
42:34
Speaker 1: So we'll have to wait and see where what Sled
42:37
Speaker 1: decides to focus on it as justice un false. Goodbye
42:42
Speaker 1: son