Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / NEW ENGLAND SERIAL KILLER? GRIM DISCOVERIES FUEL SERIAL KILLER FEARS AFTER 8 BODIES FOUND IN WITHIN WEEKS

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NEW ENGLAND SERIAL KILLER? GRIM DISCOVERIES FUEL SERIAL KILLER FEARS AFTER 8 BODIES FOUND IN WITHIN WEEKS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: Is there a New England serial killer? In the last
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Speaker 2: days grim discoveries fueling serial killer fears, the body count
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Speaker 2: rising eight bodies found in New England within just weeks.
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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
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Speaker 2: thank you for.
0:27
Speaker 1: Being with us.
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Speaker 3: Darre in New England. As towns across Connecticut, Rhode Island,
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Speaker 3: and Massachusetts are rocked by the gruesome discovery of several
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Speaker 3: sets of remains in various stages of decomposition, residents fear
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Speaker 3: a serial killer is on the loose living amongst them.
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Speaker 2: Joining us an all star panel, but straight out to
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Speaker 2: the scenes. Standing by Brian Fitzgibbons, Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security,
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Speaker 2: leading a team of investigator specializing and locating missing people
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Speaker 2: at USPA Security dot Com. Brian, thank you for being
0:59
Speaker 2: with us. Explain where you are in a significance.
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Speaker 4: I'm right now in Plymouth, Massachusetts, just adjacent to a
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Speaker 4: patch of woods where just about a month ago, a
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Speaker 4: human skull was discovered by a hunter who was walking
1:18
Speaker 4: a couple of deer paths looking for antlers. Less than
1:23
Speaker 4: three weeks ago, Massachusetts State Police and the Plymouth Police
1:26
Speaker 4: searched the woods after the skull was found. Notably, just
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Speaker 4: the skull was found. Police have not identified the skull
1:35
Speaker 4: or any other remains in the area right now.
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Speaker 2: Well, rav Is Gibbons, curious, You and I have investigated
1:44
Speaker 2: and covered, and I prosecuted a lot of cases where
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Speaker 2: only portions of the body were found here the skull now.
1:55
Speaker 2: Very often, when there is a densely area like where
2:01
Speaker 2: you are right now in Plymouth, animal activity, in other words,
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Speaker 2: animals tearing apart the body will be responsible for a
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Speaker 2: certain amount of disbursement. But Bravus Gibbons, if the disbursement
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Speaker 2: was due to animal activity, you would expect to find
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Speaker 2: other bones, maybe not all of them, maybe never all
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Speaker 2: of them, but some of them within dragging distance. You
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Speaker 2: would find a femur, a tibia, that something, an arm
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Speaker 2: leg bone nearby within thirty forty yards where the animal
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Speaker 2: has dragged it off to eat it.
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Speaker 1: So this tells me maybe.
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Speaker 2: Human hands were involved in disposing of this body.
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Speaker 4: Brian, Absolutely, Nancy, And to paint a better picture for
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Speaker 4: the audience, this patch of woods is relatively small. It's
2:58
Speaker 4: contained by a major highway and a couple of large
3:03
Speaker 4: residential neighborhoods, So access to this patch of woods is
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Speaker 4: very limited. There's really only one secluded access point to it.
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Speaker 4: The terrain is very difficult, so when you look at
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Speaker 4: the map, it's up and downhill. It's not in there
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Speaker 4: full of briers as you can see on the screen
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Speaker 4: right now. So carrying a body into this area unseen
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Speaker 4: would be very difficult.
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Speaker 2: Okay, you just said something very very important, Bryan fitzgib
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Speaker 2: is Brian on the Saine near Plymouth. That means to
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Speaker 2: me that someone that knew the area or had regular
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Speaker 2: access to it is responsible for putting the skull there,
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Speaker 2: if not the rest of the body. Why Because it is,
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Speaker 2: as you said, cornered on all sides residential highway.
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Speaker 1: Okay, what were you saying?
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Speaker 4: You're exactly right, Nancy. You would have to know where
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Speaker 4: this access point. It's by the underpass on Root three.
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Speaker 4: That's the one spot that you can get into the
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Speaker 4: woods without having to go through a neighborhood that has
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Speaker 4: seven hundred thousand dollars homes ring cameras everywhere. You know,
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Speaker 4: it would be very difficult to get in there unseen.
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Speaker 2: Hold on, hold on, it's Gibbons. You just said it
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Speaker 2: borders on Route three. There's an overpass. What is Root three?
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Speaker 2: Is it heavily traveled? Does it go from where to where?
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Speaker 4: Rout three? In that photo that went viral of the
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Speaker 4: state police doing the search, Rout three is a main
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Speaker 4: thoroughfare between Boston and Cape Cod, so it's very heavily
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Speaker 4: traveled all hours of the day. That's the main highway
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Speaker 4: going through Plymouth.
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Speaker 2: Well, okay, Brevi, it's Gibbons. You just opened up the
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Speaker 2: pool of suspects. I mean it's like a volcano. What
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Speaker 2: just speed out of your mouth.
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Speaker 1: Ruth three guys. From Boston to Cape Cod.
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Speaker 2: It's very heavily traveled, which means anybody driving by can
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Speaker 2: look down and see that patch of woods and think, wow,
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Speaker 2: that's a great spot to hide a body.
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Speaker 1: Very very similar to the case of.
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Speaker 2: Shasta and Dylan Gronie where a truck driver drove by
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Speaker 2: in Crudelane. If you saw the aeriel Brian it's all green, okay,
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Speaker 2: so very rural.
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Speaker 1: And he happens to see at a distance Shasta.
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Speaker 2: On an above ground pool. He lies and waits, kills
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Speaker 2: the whole family and takes the two children. That's what
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Speaker 2: happens the purpose sees something and suddenly they get an
5:40
Speaker 2: evil plan hatched in their head. Guys, tonight, fears of
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Speaker 2: the New England serial killer as he and it's typically
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Speaker 2: a man is called, have been sparked eight bodies found
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Speaker 2: in recent weeks.
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Speaker 5: Listen, the public is terrified there's a serial killer on
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Speaker 5: the loose in New England. In just two months, eight
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Speaker 5: sets of remains have been discovered in Connecticut, Rhode Island
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Speaker 5: and Massachusetts. Only half of those victims have been identified.
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Speaker 5: All of the bodies are in various stages of decomposition.
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Speaker 5: One woman only deceased a few hours, while another discovery
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Speaker 5: only included a jawless human skull.
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Speaker 1: Okay, Brian has gibbons.
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Speaker 2: That's the skull to which you are referring, the jawless
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Speaker 2: human skull. And we're just showing video of that neighborhood.
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Speaker 2: Let's see that again. You don't usually find a human
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Speaker 2: skull behind a million dollar house. Okay, so this is
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Speaker 2: what we're talking about. Brian, back to you, this is significant.
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Speaker 2: Rarely and a neighborhood like this, do you find a
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Speaker 2: dismembered body in your backyard?
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Speaker 6: Yeah?
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Speaker 4: So that woods is direct maybe one hundred and fifty
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Speaker 4: two hundred yards behind these houses that you're seeing here,
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Speaker 4: and then it butts on the other side of the
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Speaker 4: woods that major Route three. Okay, so that's what you're
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Speaker 4: dealing with now. When I searched the area yesterday and today,
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Speaker 4: there were a few campsites that looked like abandoned maybe
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Speaker 4: homeless campsites or small party sites that teenagers had been at.
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Speaker 4: There's also a bike path that clearly had been ridden,
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Speaker 4: maybe by local area teams or kids, so that that
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Speaker 4: patch of woods is accessible. The terrain is difficult, but
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Speaker 4: there has been some traffic through there.
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Speaker 2: You know, there's another issues. I'm looking at that interstate footage.
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Speaker 2: Jason osen is joining me veteran trial lawyer joining us
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Speaker 2: out of New York, but also practices in these jurisdictions. Jason,
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Speaker 2: if I mean you and I both taken the Peter
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Speaker 2: Pan bus from New York to Boston back and forth,
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Speaker 2: or the train, So if someone's driving along, I'm trying
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Speaker 2: to get my head around where this particular body, one.
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Speaker 1: Of eight was disposed.
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Speaker 2: When you're driving along, you can't just park on the
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Speaker 2: interstate that you and I have traveled many many times,
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Speaker 2: get out of your car, and drag a big plastic
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Speaker 2: trash bag out to the woods. You have to look
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Speaker 2: at a place where you can access it off the
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Speaker 2: road and hide it without being caught, or go there
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Speaker 2: by foot. And that is what is interesting about what
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Speaker 2: Fits Gibbons is saying. So somebody didn't just they may
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Speaker 2: have seen it from the interstate the spot to hide
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Speaker 2: a body, but they did not go to the spot
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Speaker 2: leaving the interstate on foot. You have to get out
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Speaker 2: and go around and possibly even part in this neighborhood.
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Speaker 2: But I guarantee you one of these millionaires didn't throw
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Speaker 2: a dead body or a skull practically in their own backyard.
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Speaker 1: That did not happen.
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Speaker 7: Now, when it seems why description limited as to the
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Speaker 7: type of animals that would be able to access across
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Speaker 7: the road and grab that. So you know, the theory
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Speaker 7: that it was done by human hands is quite plausible.
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Speaker 7: And as you point out, someone must have surveyed this
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Speaker 7: land because of its inaccessibility, because of the houses as
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Speaker 7: we've seen, bordered and the highway. So someone took the
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Speaker 7: time to purposely decide that this was a location for
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Speaker 7: a depositing.
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Speaker 1: That's called you're right, You're right. Oceans guys.
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Speaker 2: Eight bodies discovered in the same region in a matter
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Speaker 2: of weeks. Let's just start with thirty five year old
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Speaker 2: Page Fannin.
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Speaker 3: Page Fannin thirty five, is reported missing March fourth, after
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Speaker 3: failing to open her West Islip Long Island hair salon
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Speaker 3: and not returning calls from family members. The next day,
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Speaker 3: police get a tip that Page may have been seen
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Speaker 3: in Wilton, Connecticut, near Schneck's Island. March six, Wilton PD
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Speaker 3: teams up with Norwalk PD to search the area with drones.
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Speaker 3: An officer spots closed on the bank of the Norwalk River.
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Speaker 3: Family members confirmed the items belonged to Page.
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Speaker 2: And then Page's body found despite fast moving water from
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Speaker 2: heavy rainfalls.
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Speaker 8: Police and fire person now search along the banks of
10:01
Speaker 8: the Norfolk River, while a dive team searches the water
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Speaker 8: at Main Avenue and Gristmill Road. The scuba team discovers
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Speaker 8: human remains. They belonged to Paige fan and reported missing
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Speaker 8: two days earlier. Law enforcement has not released Page's cause
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Speaker 8: of death.
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Speaker 2: In addition to Brian Fitzgibbons joining us from the saying
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Speaker 2: their employment and veteran trial lawyer Jason Ocean is joining
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Speaker 2: me now. Harmonia Rodriguez chfus reporter with dailymail dot Com, Harmonia,
10:26
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Also host of Welcome
10:30
Speaker 2: to Magalan podcast Harmonia. The skull to which fitz Gibbons
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Speaker 2: is referring it was green in color?
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Speaker 1: Is that correct?
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Speaker 9: That's right and clearly, as you said, all of these
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Speaker 9: remains were being found in the same area and there
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Speaker 9: seems to be details that tie them. But one of
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Speaker 9: the strange things, it's all the composition levels were different.
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Speaker 9: Page that we just mentioned. Her body had only gone
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Speaker 9: missing a few days prior to it being found, so
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Speaker 9: she was not as decompose some of the other remains
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Speaker 9: that police have found. As you mentioned, this skull was
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Speaker 9: beyond any point of recognition.
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Speaker 1: Green in color.
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Speaker 2: Joining me now or a now expert Doctor Kendall Crown's
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Speaker 2: chief medical Examiner, Arrett County.
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Speaker 1: That'sport Worth and.
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Speaker 2: Has just launched a brand new podcast, Mayhem and the Morgue.
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Speaker 2: A stame lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,
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Speaker 2: Doctor Keindl Crowns, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: What does that tell you that the skull was green
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Speaker 1: in color?
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Speaker 6: It can be a number of things that could be.
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Speaker 6: It's been out in those woods long enough that moss
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Speaker 6: or mold is starting to grow on it, which will
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Speaker 6: discolor the skull. Also, the dirt composition in the area,
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Speaker 6: if it has a high copper content, can cause a
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Speaker 6: green discoloration as well. And then finally, it could be
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Speaker 6: something associated with the individual's death or chemical being used
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Speaker 6: to try and bleach the skull or get flesh off
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Speaker 6: the skull, or something along those lines.
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Speaker 2: It's okay, well you're telling me something and I've never
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Speaker 2: heard before. Stop right there, Dodtor Crowns, people actually bleach
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Speaker 2: a skull.
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Speaker 1: What did you just say?
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Speaker 6: Well, so, what I was saying was they may have
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Speaker 6: tried to use chemicals to try and get rid of
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Speaker 6: the tissue off the the skull. I miss misspoke by
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Speaker 6: saying bleach, but by using the chemicals it could have
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Speaker 6: discolored the bones in a way.
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Speaker 2: Okay, you know, doctor Kendall Crowns, every time I talk
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Speaker 2: to you, I learned something completely neat. So a skull
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Speaker 2: can be discolored, possibly turning green, if the killer has
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Speaker 2: tried to remove all the flesh so as to hide
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Speaker 2: the identity of the victim. And that okay, so the
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Speaker 2: skull could be discolored because of that. A possibility is
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Speaker 2: I'm going to circle back to the age of the skull,
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Speaker 2: but we've got seven more victims to add.
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Speaker 1: That's in Plymouth, what about Greton?
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Speaker 10: With a very vague call where it was that determine
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Speaker 10: where the item was at and during the initial investigation
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Speaker 10: home we located human.
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Speaker 1: Remains Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 10: A groutin Connecticut. Resident visiting a loved one at the
13:29
Speaker 10: Colonel Ludyard Cemetery calls police to report a suspicious item
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Speaker 10: just outside the cemetery entrance. Responding officers make a grizzly
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Speaker 10: discovery a woman's remains in a suitcase. Police save a
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Speaker 10: woman has lightly pigmented skin and may suffer from Turner syndrome,
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Speaker 10: which causes a very wide neck and broad chest, among
13:49
Speaker 10: several other physical differences. Investigators believe her remains were dumped
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Speaker 10: there in mid February.
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Speaker 2: Now, I don't want to be misleading in any way.
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Speaker 2: I do not believe that they so military victim is
14:01
Speaker 2: connected to all the other bodies, and this is why the.
14:04
Speaker 11: Victim is identified as Suzanne Wormser, aged fifty eight, who's
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Speaker 11: a resident of the city of Grotton, The suspect is
14:12
Speaker 11: identified as Donald Koffel, aged sixty eight, who's also a
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Speaker 11: resident of the city of Grotton. The suspect was interviewed
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Speaker 11: for a third time and at that time confessed to
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Speaker 11: the murder, providing details that matched the scene documentation as
14:29
Speaker 11: well as evidence collected by the investigators today. The suspect
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Speaker 11: was arrested and transferred to the state of Department corrections.
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Speaker 2: That still leaves me seven dead bodies and counting.
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Speaker 3: Page Fanning is a thirty five year old hairdresser from
14:46
Speaker 3: West Islip, New York. All seems well until the young
14:49
Speaker 3: woman is reported missing after failing to return calls from
14:52
Speaker 3: concerned family members. An intense investigation leads authorities to the
14:56
Speaker 3: bank of the Norwalk River, where pages closed and remains
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Speaker 3: are av located. That same day, just one state away,
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Speaker 3: a weathered skull with a missing jaw is discovered in Massachusetts.
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Speaker 2: Page fan of one of eight dead people their bodies
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Speaker 2: turning up scattered across the same region.
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Speaker 1: Eight bodies.
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Speaker 2: I think we can exclude one of them from any
15:17
Speaker 2: suggestion that a serial killer was involved. That leaves me
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Speaker 2: with seven dead bodies, connected or not. Now, this is
15:25
Speaker 2: what authorities want us to believe.
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Speaker 12: Listen, there have been many rumors and unsassociated fear mongering
15:33
Speaker 12: taking place in the social media, making the city and
15:36
Speaker 12: surrounding communities seem like unsafe places to live. I am
15:42
Speaker 12: here to assure you that the city of Grindon is
15:44
Speaker 12: among the safest communities in the Northeast.
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Speaker 2: Okay, the same exact thing was said about so many
15:52
Speaker 2: serial killers telling people you're safe, You're fine. There's no
15:56
Speaker 2: such thing as a serial killer walking amongst us. What
16:00
Speaker 2: does the name Portland serial killer ring a bell.
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Speaker 4: They're aware that there seems to be some similarities there,
16:05
Speaker 4: but it's too soon for them to say that there's
16:07
Speaker 4: anything directly linked between These.
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Speaker 13: Rumors of a serial killer in Portland, Oregon begin with
16:12
Speaker 13: twenty two year old Kristen Smith's remains in February. Six
16:16
Speaker 13: weeks later, Joanna Speaks is found on an abandoned property dead.
16:20
Speaker 13: Weeks later, Charity Lynn Perry and an unidentified woman are
16:24
Speaker 13: found dead. The same day, thirty one year old Bridget
16:27
Speaker 13: Webster is discovered on a rural road, and just one
16:30
Speaker 13: week later, twenty two year old Ashley Reel is found
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Speaker 13: dead in a heavily wooded area.
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Speaker 14: A grand jury has indicted Jesse Calhoun on murder and
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Speaker 14: abuse of a corpse charges in connection to the death
16:42
Speaker 14: of Charity Perry Bridget Webster and Joanna speaks that.
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Speaker 2: From our friends a ko I N six authorities reiterated
16:51
Speaker 2: over and over, it was like a mantra second verse,
16:54
Speaker 2: same as the first. There's not a serial killer, there's
16:57
Speaker 2: not a serial killer. There was a serial killer. And
17:01
Speaker 2: then with egg on their face, they say this.
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Speaker 15: We recognize that until today there have been many questions
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Speaker 15: and that their desks have caused fear and anxiety across
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Speaker 15: our area and for the families who have been waiting
17:14
Speaker 15: for answers.
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Speaker 2: Now from our fans at KPTV Fox twelve, back to
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Speaker 2: Brian Fitzgibbons joining us on the same Plymouth mass I
17:21
Speaker 2: want to circle back to the significance of the skull
17:26
Speaker 2: missing a jawbone being weathered. We believe till it was
17:32
Speaker 2: green in color. The likelihood is that that was from
17:37
Speaker 2: age out in the woods, and it may not take
17:40
Speaker 2: that long. It could be weeks, it could be months.
17:43
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily believe it has to be years, depending
17:46
Speaker 2: on the weather, but that said that significant. Brian Fitzgibbons,
17:51
Speaker 2: because if these end up being connected, that shows the
17:55
Speaker 2: sk serial killer has been working at work in this area,
18:00
Speaker 2: this region for some time.
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Speaker 4: Absolutely. Nancy and Massachusetts State Police have released very limited information,
18:08
Speaker 4: but that was one of the points that they did release,
18:11
Speaker 4: that this skull had been there for quite some time now.
18:14
Speaker 4: That has caused some concern of two local families of
18:18
Speaker 4: missing women, Sandra Crispo, missing since twenty nineteen, and Brittany McCormick,
18:24
Speaker 4: who's been missing since the summer of twenty twenty one.
18:26
Speaker 2: Back to doctor Kendall Crown's joining US Chief Medical Examiner
18:29
Speaker 2: Terren County, star of a brand new hit podcast, Mayhem
18:34
Speaker 2: in the Morgue, a couple of quick questions, Doctor Kendall Crowns, again,
18:39
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. How do you look
18:41
Speaker 2: at a skull and determine if it's male or female? Specifically, now,
18:46
Speaker 2: we don't have a jawbone.
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Speaker 1: If you don't have a jawbone, can you have the
18:51
Speaker 1: upper teeth?
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Speaker 6: Yes, The upper teeth are part of the maxilla which
18:55
Speaker 6: is attached to the skull, so you will still see
18:58
Speaker 6: the upper teeth stayed in place. Because when the guns
19:02
Speaker 6: disappear often the teeth will also fall out as well.
19:07
Speaker 6: One of the things that anthropologists will look at for
19:10
Speaker 6: variating in males and females. There is a little subtle
19:13
Speaker 6: shapes and changes to the skull bones that the anthropologists
19:17
Speaker 6: can use to figure out if it's a female or
19:19
Speaker 6: a male. What subtle differences There can be some changes,
19:22
Speaker 6: and particularly the eye sockets can look a little different
19:26
Speaker 6: from males to females, and then the overall structure and shape.
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Speaker 6: Often the male's skulls will be larger, but occasionally do
19:34
Speaker 6: get these smaller males that can look like female skulls
19:37
Speaker 6: as well.
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Speaker 2: And I believe there are differences in the size of
19:40
Speaker 2: the forehead. Can you, based on the teeth determine the
19:45
Speaker 2: age of the victim if we have if there are
19:48
Speaker 2: teeth left, Doctor Kendall Crowns.
19:51
Speaker 6: Yes, you can tell age on an individual bite based
19:55
Speaker 6: on teeth because with children, of course, the teeth aren't
19:58
Speaker 6: all erupted, and so the teeth I'm in a varying
20:01
Speaker 6: time throughout your life, so you can get an idea
20:04
Speaker 6: up to when your wisdom teeth come out of age range.
20:08
Speaker 6: But once the wisdom teeth are out, it is difficult
20:10
Speaker 6: to age someone based on teeth, although you can look
20:12
Speaker 6: at how the wear patterns and things like that and
20:15
Speaker 6: get an idea that they are older.
20:16
Speaker 2: And of course you can possibly even make an id
20:20
Speaker 2: through dental records. But the problem with that is, Brian Fitzgibbons,
20:23
Speaker 2: you've got to have somebody to compare it too. Just
20:27
Speaker 2: for instance, if I were to find your skull okay
20:31
Speaker 2: out in the woods behind you there near Plymouth, mass
20:35
Speaker 2: and I suspect it's you, and I don't have any
20:39
Speaker 2: tissue left, I can't get any DNA. If I think
20:43
Speaker 2: it's you, I can compare the teeth to your dental records,
20:47
Speaker 2: because nobody else is going to show that you had
20:50
Speaker 2: braces not once but twice, that you had one wisdom
20:55
Speaker 2: tooth removed, but not the others, that you had a
20:57
Speaker 2: cavity here, here, and here. No body else is going
21:00
Speaker 2: to have the same pattern dental or orthodontia work.
21:05
Speaker 1: That you do.
21:07
Speaker 2: The odds are millions to one, that's one way. But
21:12
Speaker 2: you got to have something to compare the unknown teeth too,
21:16
Speaker 2: and here we got nothing.
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Speaker 1: Brian, I think you're right.
21:19
Speaker 4: At this point, we haven't heard that any teeth have
21:22
Speaker 4: been located and I can tell you, Nancy, the number
21:25
Speaker 4: of state police and local police vehicles and agents that
21:29
Speaker 4: were in that woods was high. It's a very dense
21:34
Speaker 4: forest with thick underbrush, so it would have been very
21:37
Speaker 4: hard to locate any teeth that it may have fallen
21:41
Speaker 4: out of that skull.
21:42
Speaker 2: What about the possibility, doctor Kendle Crowns, of getting DNA.
21:45
Speaker 6: Yes, you can get DNA from the skull, especially if
21:47
Speaker 6: the teeth are still there, because the teeth are actually
21:50
Speaker 6: something will removed to get DNA from the pulp structure
21:54
Speaker 6: in the teeth have a nice amount of kind of
21:57
Speaker 6: blood bloody pulp that we can use for doing DNA from.
22:01
Speaker 6: So there's teeth.
22:02
Speaker 1: What if we don't have teeth, Kendle, it.
22:04
Speaker 6: Becomes a little more difficult. If there isn't any bone
22:07
Speaker 6: marrow left in that skull, it it's almost impossible to
22:09
Speaker 6: get DNA from it. But if there's a two you
22:11
Speaker 6: can definitely do DNA tested.
22:13
Speaker 2: Next question, Doctor Kendall Crowns, how long does it take
22:16
Speaker 2: for the bone marrow to dissipate or disappear?
22:19
Speaker 6: It depends on the temperature outside, how long they've been
22:22
Speaker 6: out there, the weather conditions, the heat all that can
22:27
Speaker 6: dry up the bone marrow quite quickly. But again, if
22:31
Speaker 6: there's anything left, you can get DNA from it. But
22:36
Speaker 6: I would say once you get into weeks or months,
22:39
Speaker 6: it'd be days versus weeks in the summer months, in
22:43
Speaker 6: the fall and winter.
22:44
Speaker 3: A series of bone chilling discoveries in New England continues
22:48
Speaker 3: when Suzanne Wormser's remains are found stuffed in a suitcase
22:51
Speaker 3: in a Connecticut cemetery. This at the heels of two
22:54
Speaker 3: other sets of remains located earlier in the month across
22:57
Speaker 3: Massachusetts and Connecticut. But it doesn't stop there. Just a
23:01
Speaker 3: day later, Connecticut Mom Denny's Leary's remains are found in
23:04
Speaker 3: New Haven.
23:05
Speaker 2: Is a serial killer stalking in the New England region?
23:09
Speaker 2: So far, all we hear is no, no, no no
23:12
Speaker 2: from authorities, But that's what authorities always say when they
23:17
Speaker 2: are confronted with evidence that there is a serial killer.
23:21
Speaker 2: Eight bodies turning up within weeks, I believe killed over
23:26
Speaker 2: a period of time. One of those murders has been solved,
23:30
Speaker 2: so we're.
23:31
Speaker 1: Subtracting that out.
23:32
Speaker 2: We still have seven bodies and County joining me right
23:36
Speaker 2: now is a very special guest joining us. Jane Barowski
23:42
Speaker 2: at seven months pregnant.
23:44
Speaker 1: Let that sink in. She was stabbed twenty seven times.
23:49
Speaker 2: She is the lone survivor of the Connecticut River Valley
23:54
Speaker 2: serial killer and host of podcast Invisible Tier.
24:00
Speaker 1: Jane, thank you so much for being with us. Oh,
24:03
Speaker 1: thank you Nancy for having me. Ms Barrowsky.
24:06
Speaker 2: When you heard the news that a serial killer could
24:10
Speaker 2: be stalking New England again, what went through your mind?
24:15
Speaker 1: I was.
24:17
Speaker 16: I was quite frustrated when I was listening to law
24:20
Speaker 16: enforcement talk talk about all these cases, saying they're not suspicious,
24:27
Speaker 16: they don't believe there's a serial killer, and that that
24:33
Speaker 16: that really concerned me because, as far as I'm concerned,
24:38
Speaker 16: if they don't be honest, then people put their guard
24:44
Speaker 16: down and just disregard all this. So to me, I
24:50
Speaker 16: wanted to start talking about it more so that people
24:54
Speaker 16: could start being more aware of their surroundings.
24:57
Speaker 1: And we're showing a sketch right now now, Jane.
25:01
Speaker 2: Hold on, Jane, I'm sorry to interrupt, but we're suddenly
25:03
Speaker 2: showing a sketch of the Connecticut River Valley serial killer.
25:07
Speaker 16: That sketch right there is the composite that I did
25:10
Speaker 16: of the person that or the monster that attacked me.
25:14
Speaker 2: Jane, Why are you so concerned about what LA law
25:17
Speaker 2: enforcement is saying now about the possibility of the New
25:21
Speaker 2: England serial killer?
25:22
Speaker 16: Because I think that they should be letting people know
25:24
Speaker 16: that they need to be more vigilant about what they're
25:26
Speaker 16: doing on a day to day basis. They need to,
25:31
Speaker 16: you know, start thinking about their safety and be more
25:36
Speaker 16: aware of their surroundings and you know the buddy system and.
25:42
Speaker 1: You know, carry protection.
25:46
Speaker 16: They say that all these cases are not suspicious, but
25:52
Speaker 16: they're not actually telling anybody what the manner of death
25:56
Speaker 16: is like if it's.
25:57
Speaker 2: A suicide, Oh my goodness, Jane, to know, Jane, that's
26:01
Speaker 2: what I've got written in big letters with a magic marker.
26:05
Speaker 2: If you don't even know the cod cause of death
26:09
Speaker 2: with these seven remaining that we know of seven dead bodies.
26:14
Speaker 1: Then how can you say they're not connected?
26:17
Speaker 2: I mean, I agree with you, that is unfounded and
26:21
Speaker 2: that's suspicious.
26:22
Speaker 1: That's very suspicious.
26:24
Speaker 16: Like if you can't share that or you don't know
26:28
Speaker 16: I mean some of these bodies or remains, they've already
26:32
Speaker 16: said that it's not suspicious before they even sent them
26:37
Speaker 16: out to be examined. How can they even determine.
26:40
Speaker 2: That it's frustrating problem, don't move. Jane Browski. Another problem
26:48
Speaker 2: to Brian Fitzgibbons joining us at the sea where one
26:51
Speaker 2: of the sets of remains were found.
26:53
Speaker 1: Brian usp a nationwide.
26:56
Speaker 2: Security leading a team of investigators finding missing people and
27:00
Speaker 2: helping to solve unsolved homicides.
27:02
Speaker 1: Brian the prompt one of the mini problems.
27:05
Speaker 2: Here is and this is not peculiar to New England,
27:08
Speaker 2: this is everywhere. This is why Bundy took so long
27:11
Speaker 2: to solve, and israel Keys took so long to solve,
27:14
Speaker 2: and so many others took so long to solve. You
27:17
Speaker 2: basically have to take out an ad on Third Avenue.
27:20
Speaker 1: I did it.
27:21
Speaker 2: I'm the serial killer because the law enforcement aren't stupid,
27:26
Speaker 2: They're not dumb. Is that jurisdictions are not in the
27:31
Speaker 2: same system. You could have two dead bodies with different
27:35
Speaker 2: inmos of disposal in let's just say Massachusetts, and then
27:39
Speaker 2: another dead body in Connecticut with a different method of disposal,
27:44
Speaker 2: and on and on and nobody. It's not that they
27:48
Speaker 2: hate each other or they're intentionally ignoring each other. It's
27:52
Speaker 2: they don't have the ability the structural possibilities of that
27:58
Speaker 2: being in the same database. What I mean, they're not
28:01
Speaker 2: talking to each other about these dead bodies.
28:05
Speaker 4: Certainly, Nancy. And that's where you know, law enforcement would
28:09
Speaker 4: consider and should consider the creation of a task force
28:13
Speaker 4: where there's one of these, where these agenceencies can openly
28:17
Speaker 4: collaborate and communicate on evidence, the victimology of the victims
28:22
Speaker 4: that have been found here and in any new data
28:25
Speaker 4: that comes up along their investigations.
28:27
Speaker 2: Joining us from New Hampshire, Jamee Browski, the lone survivor,
28:32
Speaker 2: the only one that we know survive the Connecticut River
28:35
Speaker 2: Valley serial killer. I don't blame them Ellie for not
28:40
Speaker 2: knowing what's going on, for instance, and Bundy, how would
28:42
Speaker 2: somebody that's uh And I had a fellow prosecutor that
28:46
Speaker 2: was one of the first cops on the scene at
28:48
Speaker 2: the cay Omega massacre, and he was a rookie. He
28:54
Speaker 2: said he told one day that he said something like,
28:58
Speaker 2: stay calm, your friends have been brutally murdered upstairs, and
29:02
Speaker 2: of course they all started screaming. He was a rookie
29:05
Speaker 2: that was sent to the scene. So you know, why
29:08
Speaker 2: would law enforcement answering that call investigating that case? Thing hey,
29:13
Speaker 2: I should look at Colorado murders. They shouldn't. It is
29:17
Speaker 2: not in the same database. So Bundy went on a
29:21
Speaker 2: nationwide spree. And I submit, there are still unsolved murders
29:27
Speaker 2: of Bundy's victims. But what I do blame them with,
29:30
Speaker 2: along with Jane Barowski, who live to tell the tale,
29:33
Speaker 2: is telling people don't look at the man behind the curtain,
29:38
Speaker 2: don't look over here, look over here. There's not a
29:40
Speaker 2: serial killer. But they won't say why Jane exactly.
29:44
Speaker 1: I agree with you, Nancy. It's frustrating.
29:48
Speaker 16: You know, I get that there's different states involved and
29:54
Speaker 16: all that, but I mean, come on, let's be honest.
29:57
Speaker 1: This is suspicious.
29:59
Speaker 16: And I don't see a reason why they can't elaborate
30:03
Speaker 16: that that these cases are suspicious. They don't know if
30:08
Speaker 16: any of them are connected. There could be a possibility.
30:11
Speaker 16: They don't know, But I mean, they need to be
30:14
Speaker 16: more honest with the public. You know, they don't want
30:17
Speaker 16: to raise red flags and they don't want to raise
30:19
Speaker 16: fear and all that. But with them saying nothing that
30:23
Speaker 16: raises fear, that's suspicious.
30:26
Speaker 1: What happened in your case, Jane?
30:29
Speaker 16: With me, I had left a fair I lived in
30:34
Speaker 16: a very small community in New Hampshire, and I left
30:38
Speaker 16: a fair and I was driving home that night. This
30:44
Speaker 16: was in a very small town that in nineteen eighty
30:48
Speaker 16: eight virtually had no major crime. And I stopped at
30:53
Speaker 16: a closed door to get a soda out of a
30:56
Speaker 16: soda machine, and Munster came and parked next to me,
31:03
Speaker 16: and he got out and came over to my car
31:07
Speaker 16: and tried to get me out of my car and
31:10
Speaker 16: get me to go with him. I fought, I refused
31:13
Speaker 16: to go with him, and as I was trying to
31:17
Speaker 16: get away from him, he ultimately tackled me down and
31:22
Speaker 16: stabbed me twenty seven times.
31:24
Speaker 1: Tell me about drawing this sketch of him, Well, I
31:30
Speaker 1: was in ICU.
31:31
Speaker 16: This was drawn approximately two or three days after my attack.
31:37
Speaker 16: I was in ICU. I was on an incubator. I
31:41
Speaker 16: had two collapse lungs. He sliced my juggler, he sliced
31:49
Speaker 16: my tenin in my thumb, sliced the ten in in
31:52
Speaker 16: my knee. And the detectives came in with this box
31:57
Speaker 16: of slides. Different eyes, different faces, face shapes, different mouths,
32:04
Speaker 16: different noses, different hair, And so they showed me a slide,
32:10
Speaker 16: and that whole composite was done by me blinking once
32:14
Speaker 16: for yes and two for no, and that's how that
32:18
Speaker 16: composite was created. I wish that they had set me
32:23
Speaker 16: up with an artist after I got out of the
32:25
Speaker 16: hospital so I could have had a more detailed sketch
32:30
Speaker 16: of him, but unfortunately they never did that. So that's
32:35
Speaker 16: the only composite that we have out there.
32:44
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
32:49
Speaker 2: The on identified Connecticut River Valley serial killer is responsible
32:56
Speaker 2: for the murders of seven young women, all within the
33:02
Speaker 2: Connecticut River Valley region of New England. And he is
33:09
Speaker 2: still walking free, still unsolved. And you said your daughter
33:18
Speaker 2: is a miracle. Why did you say that.
33:20
Speaker 16: I was seven months pregnant, ear, and you know she survived.
33:24
Speaker 16: I ended up carrying her for another two months after
33:27
Speaker 16: my attack and she survives.
33:29
Speaker 1: So she is a miracle.
33:31
Speaker 16: I believe that it's because of her that I survived.
33:34
Speaker 16: Because she wanted to survive and live, it gave me
33:38
Speaker 16: the strength to survive.
33:40
Speaker 5: Residents of Rock Creek Road in New Haven, Connecticut, are
33:43
Speaker 5: spending time cleaning up their gardens as spring arrives. When
33:47
Speaker 5: one homeowner makes a grizzly discovery as the homeowner clears
33:51
Speaker 5: dead overgrowth from their fence line. They discover human remains
33:55
Speaker 5: and call nine one one. Investigators say the remains are
34:00
Speaker 5: in an advanced state of decomposition. Four days later, the
34:03
Speaker 5: Chief Medical Examiner says the remains belonged to Denise Leary,
34:08
Speaker 5: reported missing nearly six months ago. Leary's cause of death
34:12
Speaker 5: is undetermined.
34:13
Speaker 1: Social media can speculate. We have to deal in facts.
34:16
Speaker 1: There's no facts of support that this woman was murdered.
34:18
Speaker 2: That from our friends at WFSB, and that was Officer
34:22
Speaker 2: Christian Brooke Hart from New Haven PD. Okay, Ryan Fitzgibbons,
34:27
Speaker 2: same thing, second verse, same as the first. You've got
34:31
Speaker 2: a dead female in advanced state of decomp it's Denise
34:36
Speaker 2: Leary and she's found in dead overgrowth behind a fence line.
34:43
Speaker 2: What she just went out there and had a stroke.
34:46
Speaker 1: That's not what happened, absolutely, Nancy.
34:48
Speaker 4: There seems to be a lot of unanswered questions, and
34:51
Speaker 4: we know that law enforcement is going to protect information
34:56
Speaker 4: about ongoing cases, but it is particularly frustrating when they
35:01
Speaker 4: drone on with the same, the same old story that
35:04
Speaker 4: there's nothing to be worried about here. You know, this
35:07
Speaker 4: case seems like there had to be follow play.
35:11
Speaker 1: So that's denayse Leary. Now there's Michelle Romano. Listen.
35:15
Speaker 3: Michelle Romano was born and raised in Rhode Island with
35:17
Speaker 3: three siblings. Graduating from Coventry High School, Michelle goes into
35:21
Speaker 3: social work and when her two children, Jaden and Fallon,
35:23
Speaker 3: are in high school, she lands her dream job at
35:26
Speaker 3: the Trudeau Center in Warwick for individuals with disabilities. Neighbors
35:30
Speaker 3: say it's like Michelle Romano just vanished. The friendly loving
35:34
Speaker 3: mother walks her dog every night, but in late July
35:37
Speaker 3: the walks suddenly stop and no one can get a
35:40
Speaker 3: hold of her. Warwick Police also asked the public for
35:42
Speaker 3: any information on Michelle, saying she was last seen July
35:45
Speaker 3: twenty second in the Oakland Beach area. Michelle is five
35:48
Speaker 3: feet tall with black hair.
35:50
Speaker 1: I know something was wrong immediately because she wouldn't like Johnson.
35:53
Speaker 1: She wouldn't never ever leave her kids behind.
35:56
Speaker 2: From our friend's WPR, I back to Harmonia Rodrigue as
36:00
Speaker 2: joining us Chapus reporter Daily Mail, what about Michelle Romano.
36:06
Speaker 9: Let's right. Michelle was lasting last summer and wasn't found
36:10
Speaker 9: until early April, also in a wooded area, but as
36:13
Speaker 9: you have been mentioning Nancy. The police have not told
36:16
Speaker 9: us how she died. They have only said that they
36:18
Speaker 9: are looking into the suspicious circumstances around her death. So
36:24
Speaker 9: again no information about the manner or cause of death,
36:27
Speaker 9: just that they're looking into it. But the similarity is,
36:29
Speaker 9: of course the way it was found, and Michelle was
36:32
Speaker 9: one of the victims that had been missing the longest.
36:35
Speaker 2: Then of course there is another dead body that is
36:39
Speaker 2: found in Killingly, Connecticut, and then of course there's a
36:45
Speaker 2: Framingham body.
36:46
Speaker 8: Listen at nine forty five pm, Whalent and Framingham, Massachusetts
36:51
Speaker 8: firefighters put out a brush fire near the Massachusetts Turnpike
36:54
Speaker 8: when they stumble on a human skeleton. Police search the
36:57
Speaker 8: area once the blaze is controlled, finding nothing to help
37:00
Speaker 8: identify the remains or what happened.
37:02
Speaker 9: To the victim.
37:03
Speaker 8: It appears the remains had been there for months. A
37:06
Speaker 8: forensic anthropologist is working to identify the remains.
37:09
Speaker 2: So it seems to me, there Harmonia Rodriguez, that the
37:14
Speaker 2: remains tried to be obscured.
37:16
Speaker 1: We're obscured by a brush fire, right.
37:19
Speaker 9: That's a new aspect of this particular body that was found.
37:24
Speaker 9: That there was also a fire that happened at the
37:26
Speaker 9: same time of the discovery, making the remains really hard
37:30
Speaker 9: to identify. As many as half of these bodies have
37:34
Speaker 9: not been identified because of how decomposed or destroyed they were.
37:39
Speaker 2: Now just one hour away, correct me if I'm wrong,
37:42
Speaker 2: because there's a lot of dead bodies we're juggling here,
37:45
Speaker 2: and a lot of fact scenarios. Harmonia Rodriguez, you've got
37:48
Speaker 2: the body found in a brushfire. I guess cops are
37:54
Speaker 2: going to say what she had a heart attack, fell
37:56
Speaker 2: over and died, and then someone happened to throw a
37:58
Speaker 2: lit match near Okay, but then one hour away in Springfield,
38:04
Speaker 2: mass This.
38:05
Speaker 5: Happens eight am Tuesday morning, Springfield, Massachusetts. First responders rushed
38:10
Speaker 5: to a bike trail along the Connecticut River. A nine
38:13
Speaker 5: to one one caller reported and unconscious woman. When help arrives,
38:17
Speaker 5: the woman is declared deceased. Police have not released Megan
38:21
Speaker 5: Meredith's cause of death, but it is being investigated as
38:25
Speaker 5: a homicide.
38:26
Speaker 2: So you've got Hermionia Rodriguez, You've got one woman, dad.
38:32
Speaker 2: The body is set on fire in Whyland, the Farmingham,
38:35
Speaker 2: mass area, and then an hour away another dead female
38:40
Speaker 2: that being Megan Meredith and police are not releasing a
38:44
Speaker 2: COEOD cause of death, is that right?
38:45
Speaker 1: That's right.
38:46
Speaker 9: This was the last body or the most recent remains
38:49
Speaker 9: that were found in the area, and police did say
38:52
Speaker 9: that it appears to be a homicide. However, they are
38:55
Speaker 9: still once again not giving it doesn't appear because this
39:01
Speaker 9: remains of the victim. It was reported at someone as
39:04
Speaker 9: someone being on responsive, so the suggestion is that these
39:08
Speaker 9: remains were not as decomposed as others, but that's all
39:12
Speaker 9: we know.
39:12
Speaker 2: Again, authorities insisting there's not a serial killer at but
39:18
Speaker 2: a Facebook group now telling nearly seventy thousand members disagree.
39:23
Speaker 13: District Attorney Anthony Gallini tells the public Springfield is safe,
39:27
Speaker 13: despite the seven other sets of remains found in the
39:30
Speaker 13: last two months and another woman's murder in Springfield's Forest
39:34
Speaker 13: Park in January. Speculation about a serial killer in New
39:37
Speaker 13: England is gaining significant traction online. The New England serial
39:42
Speaker 13: Killer Facebook groups sixty seven thousand members and users on
39:46
Speaker 13: other platforms like TikTok and x are pointing to several
39:49
Speaker 13: recent discoveries of human remains in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Rhode
39:53
Speaker 13: Island between March and April, Google shows a huge spike
39:57
Speaker 13: in searches for New England serial killer. While police say
40:01
Speaker 13: the rumors are unfounded, they are having a hard time
40:04
Speaker 13: convincing the public otherwise.
40:06
Speaker 2: To Jane Barowski joining us, the lone survivor of the
40:09
Speaker 2: Connecticut River Valley serial killer, there's not even a tip
40:13
Speaker 2: line set up for the alleged New England serial killer.
40:18
Speaker 2: There's not We tried to find one. There's not one.
40:20
Speaker 2: Isn't that suspicious?
40:22
Speaker 11: Like?
40:22
Speaker 1: Do they want to solve these cases? Exactly? So?
40:27
Speaker 2: The best number we can give if you know or
40:30
Speaker 2: think you know about any of these seven dead bodies,
40:37
Speaker 2: please call spring Fold PD four three seven, eight, seven,
40:42
Speaker 2: six three five five repeat four one three, seven, eight, seven,
40:47
Speaker 2: six y three five y five. Nancy Gray signing off,
40:53
Speaker 2: goodbye friend,