Latest / Women Disrupting Tech / The Anatomy of a Female Founder Story That Drives Action with Jennifer Cloer | Ep 147

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The Anatomy of a Female Founder Story That Drives Action with Jennifer Cloer | Ep 147 · Women Disrupting Tech

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But so often, particularly women who are often or have been in
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the past, this is increasingly better all the time, but have
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been sidelined in their communities or in their
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workplaces often don't think they have a story.
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And when they work with someone, whether it's someone like me or
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a mentor or boss or a peer or a community where stories are
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being shared and they they do the work to identify, oh, that's
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an interesting story and I want to share that story.
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And then when that story is heard, I think there's often
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just a transformative experience from being seen, right?
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That's a human need by all of us to be seen, to be understood.
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In order to be seen and to be understood, we have to actually
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share our stories. Hey, welcome back to Women
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Disrupting Tech, and thank you for tuning in to episode 147.
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I'm your host, Eric Klonukas, and this is the podcast that
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closes the funding gap in venture capital by amplifying
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the stories of female founders and their investors.
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Now, many founders think their story isn't that interesting,
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and that assumption can hold them back more than their
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products, metrics, or traction ever will.
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So in this episode, I'm joined by Jennifer Clover, the founder
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of Story Changes Culture, to help founders move past that
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idea and build stories that people actually respond to.
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We talk about why storytelling is not just marketing, but part
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of leadership, why tension and emotion are key to attract
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people's attention, and why your perspective makes your story
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actually work. We also dive into the Chasing
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Grace project, where women saw their own experiences reflected
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and started asking for raises, pushing for promotions, and
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moving to environments where they were actually valued.
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So when you're ready to discover the anatomy of a female founder
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story that Tribes action, here's my conversation with Jennifer
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Clover. Jennifer Clover, welcome to
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women disrupting Tech. It's an honor to have you.
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I would like to start with some background on you.
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What prompted you to build Story Changes Culture?
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Well, thank you for having me DJ.
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It's so nice to be here and to talk to you about these topics,
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story changes, culture. You know, I started it 10 years
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ago this year. I had helped to start and found
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the Linux Foundation, and prior to that, I'd worked with
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startups and entrepreneurs and inventors for most of my career.
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And I always knew I wanted to design and build my own
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business. And so in 2016, it felt like the
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right time. I'd been at Linux Foundation for
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a decade, and like I said, I'd help build the communications
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function there, for example, from me 230 social media, PR and
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content folks. And so the time felt right to go
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start my own business. It was also during a time when I
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was seeing women in my communities and in my workplaces
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being overlooked, dismissed, their ideas not really being
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taken as seriously or as a priority as their male
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counterparts. This was also during a time when
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Ellen Pao had sued Kleiner Perkins, the the venture capital
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firm in the Valley, in the Silicon Valley, for sexual
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discrimination. And she lost.
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And so I was really fired up and wanted to start my own business
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where I could work with clients and provide services that
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mattered to me, that that made me feel like I could have an
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impact of some sort. So that's kind of how I started.
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Story changes culture. OK and story changes culture
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revolves around storytelling if. That's correct.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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So we work with startups. We work mostly in the technology
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space, although not exclusively, but most of our clients are in
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the technology space. We work with a lot of startups
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from Angel through C through Series A to B and and beyond.
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We've also worked with a number of the really, really big tech
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companies, usually with departments within those
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companies that are either led by women or are developer focused.
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I have obviously with my Linux Foundation background, I have
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deep experience with developer communities and it is really
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revolved around surfacing story and we can talk more about that
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and why the focus therapist story.
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But we also offer traditional public relations and
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communication services as well like media relations and analyst
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relations, influencer engagement, stuff like that.
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Yeah, so just want to double click on the Linux Foundation.
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You build it from one communication person yourself to
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30 people doing all kinds of communication to up to social
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media. So what?
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How did that help you in your journey?
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Building story changes culture. Well, I think, you know, the
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Lennox story has all of the ingredients of a really good
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story, right? It has interesting characters.
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It has tension and disruption. It has overcoming the incumbent
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player. So it has this idea of or this,
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this, this essence of victory and winning and overcoming the
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odds. And so that really gave me a
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really good opportunity to to dig into a really good story and
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tell it over the course of a decade in many different ways.
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And so when I was started Story Changes Culture, I kind of had
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that foundation for how to approach client work and how to
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approach working with women to tell their stories in a way that
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didn't shy away from tension, didn't shy away from disruption,
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that really actually embraced all of those things.
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Just going back, what was the first moment you actually
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figured out, hey, I want to tell stories?
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Oh gosh, it goes back to when I was really young.
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I can remember in high school, I wasn't in the drama club, but I
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was in leadership, and I partnered with the drama club to
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produce this whole show at our high school that told the
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stories about teenagers, some of the difficult stories about what
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it's like to be a teenager while I was a teenager.
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And so I've always had this desire to to surface and to tell
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and to breathe air to stories that maybe aren't as often told.
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And so I think, you know, I've had an appreciation for that and
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an interest in that from from a pretty young age.
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And then over the years, I saw, particularly with the Chasing
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Grace Project, which is a docu series that I produced and
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directed once I started my own business about women in tech, I
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saw the power of telling your story.
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What could happen to women in particular when they embraced
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their story, when they told their story, when they
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experienced that response of people hearing their story.
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And that was like rocket fuel. I was off and running.
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Yes. So tell us a bit more about the
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Chasing Grace project. What was it?
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Sure. So when I started my business 10
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years ago, like I said in the tech industry, Ellen Pao had
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lost her case against Minor Perkins, which was a really big
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deal in the tech industry because I think we all assumed
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she would win. And when she didn't win, it just
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put a fine point on how ingrained the kind of culture
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was in tech around the status quo.
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And also it was in the United States, an election year, a very
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difficult election year. And there were protests around
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the country of which I was a part.
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And I wanted to do something. I wanted to do something.
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And I felt like storytelling was what I did for a living.
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And so, and I'd always wanted to work with with film.
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And so I embarked on this journey where I put a call out
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for stories online and I was inundated with responses right
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away. And I spent every Friday for oh,
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the first six months and then throughout the course of the
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project, which lasted 3 years, I spent most Fridays on
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back-to-back calls with women listening to their stories.
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And then I started to travel and film stories.
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And we, we produced 3 episodes. We screened those all over the
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world. And the women who who
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participated seemed to me and they would tell me, so I know it
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by their, their first hand accounts that it changed them,
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that they, by telling the story and being elevated in these
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screens that we hosted all over the world, that they, you know,
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left jobs where they weren't being appreciated.
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They asked for raises when they were due and they connected with
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other women in their communities.
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You know, I've been in tech and in my career a long time.
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Early in my career, women didn't really have community,
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particularly in the tech space, right?
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You were usually the only one at the table.
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And and if there were other women, they were competition,
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frankly. And now that's not the case.
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And it hasn't been the case for for a long time.
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I think at least for a decade, we've really created a sense of
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community in our tech space among women, and it's helping us
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grow and flourish and accomplish so much more.
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What was the moment for you, but also maybe for others, that
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realization set in that, hey, we have to do this together and not
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us, not in competition. I think a lot of things started
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happening and this was probably about 10 years ago.
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At one time you had, I mentioned Ellen Pao now a couple times,
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but you also had Susan Fowler, who was the whistleblower at
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Uber about her experiences there.
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And that's just a couple examples off the top of my head.
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There was also the Me Too movement, right?
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That was that was emerging at that time and women were
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starting to talk publicly. And so, you know, DJ, to come
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back to like, part of what we're talking about today's
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storytelling, right? When people tell their stories
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and share their experiences, it usually will connect with others
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because they've had the same experiences and they haven't
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been telling those stories. And that, you know, me too, is a
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great example of that. But all of that was kind of
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happening. There was a rush of that
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happening at once. And I think it just, there was a
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collective epiphany, which is so beautiful and rare.
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It doesn't happen that often, but there was a collective
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epiphany at that time that, oh, we're in this together.
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And when we come together in community and celebrate each
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other and lift each other up, we can accomplish so much more,
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both together and in our individual lives.
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Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. Especially if it comes, indeed,
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if it comes together as an epiphany.
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Like it. Oh, wait a minute, This works.
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So. So you talked about embracing
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your story. Maybe double click on what you
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mean by that because it's sort of intriguing to me.
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Yeah, yeah. You know, we all have stories
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inside of us. We all have a story.
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We all have multiple stories, right?
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But so often, particularly women who are are often or have been
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in the past, this is increasingly better all the
11:15
time, but have been sidelined in their communities or in their
11:18
workplaces often don't think they have a story.
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And when they work with someone, whether it's someone like me or
11:26
a mentor or boss or a peer or a community where stories are
11:29
being shared and they they do the work to identify, oh, that's
11:34
an interesting story and I want to share that story.
11:37
And then when that story is heard, I think there's often
11:40
just a transformative experience from being seen, right?
11:44
That's a human need by all of us to be seen, to be understood.
11:49
And in order to be seen and to be understood, we have to
11:52
actually share our stories. And by the way, I mean, in the
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context of business and the technology space, this is
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extremely empowering and powerful when you're talking
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about female leaders, right? Because when they embrace their
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human story, that translates into what they're doing in
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business, what they're building, how they're building, and it can
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translate into real business growth and success too.
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Yeah. Do you think purpose, having a
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good purpose, good purpose, maybe not the right word, but
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having a purpose that is, is important, more important for
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women in their storytelling than for men?
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I think it's important for everyone equally.
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I think why I focus a lot on women, and by the way, I don't,
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I don't work exclusively with women, but I work mostly with
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women is because narrative power is cultural power.
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So whoever has the mic or the pulpit or whatever you know, the
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forum may be and is telling the story has power to influence
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power to make meaning. And most of the time throughout
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our history, it's been men who have that power.
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And so men should absolutely embrace their stories and tell
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their stories, but we need to balance out who is telling those
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stories, who has the mic. And so I'm over indexing on
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women so that we can bring more balance into the stories that we
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hear. Yeah, I think in a sense I'm
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doing the same with for, for the for the funding, of course over
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over indexing on, on female founders.
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So what I was wondering about how important is telling stories
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for leadership, especially if you if you are a woman?
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Well, there's a couple reasons it's really important.
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One is storytelling is all about meaning making.
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I just mentioned that it's about making meaning out of something,
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right At an emotional level. Humans, there's a lot of
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scientific evidence that supports those.
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Humans don't actually change behavior.
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Take action unless they're emotionally triggered, whether
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that's positively or negatively, they don't actually take action
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unless there's an emotional connection.
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So storytelling is the way in which we can embrace and, and,
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and celebrate emotion on some level.
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And so, and that's in order to make meaning out of a situation.
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So when women do that, they can influence and engage with folks.
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And that's also what leadership is about to influence people, I
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would suppose. Exactly.
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To influence people, to rally them behind your vision or your
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cause, and to rally them to go do the work that you need to do
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to build your business. Yeah, so why don't we teach
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women this from the start, while while men are encouraged to get
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up on the stage or on the chair even to to spread the word?
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I think that's changing. And you know, women are also
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this, this is kind of a generalization, but women are, I
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think, recognized as being good communicators overall.
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And so I think that we just need to create more space for them.
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So I think women know how to generally have a good sense for
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how to share their stories. They just don't always feel like
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they're in a position or a space to tell them or to share those
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stories. So I think creating those spaces
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and empowering women with the tools to tell their stories in
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effective ways, in ways that do influence, that do move the
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needle on their business or their organization or their art.
15:30
Yeah. So how can, let's say there are
15:33
founders listening to this startup founders, how can how
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can they do that? How can they encourage the women
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in their crew, in their on their teams to to take that space?
15:46
Or how can they create the space where it's safe for them to open
15:51
up? Right, right.
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I think at a leadership level, inviting those stories, right,
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whether that's in forums, maybe first it's internally, right, in
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forums internally to share their stories with each other, share
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with like a weekly story time, you know, frankly where you
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know, the internal team gets together and and listens to each
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other's stories and experiences from that week, whether they are
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the personal that impacted the professional or the professional
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that maybe impacted the personal.
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That's really interesting, right?
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And then as leaders kind of create more and more space for
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that and hear more and more stories, they can then start to
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identify where their team stories could be shared
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externally. Oh, that's an interesting story
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that might be really helpful for our customers to hear that
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story, come to this customer engagement with us and tell that
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story and just giving women more and more opportunities to take
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up space and to share those stories.
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Yeah. And then also indeed take them
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outside. Absolutely, yeah.
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Yeah, Yeah. How do you ensure that you, you
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balance this as as a communications leader?
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Because it's, it's, as you said, it's all about creating space,
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but then also balancing out, let's say, the women's, women's
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voices against men's voices. Well, I think there's room for
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both, right? There's room for both and I
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think I think it's just being intentional about because we
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know from science and, and and research that men will speak up
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usually quickly and 1st and share their stories and and
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that's fantastic. Again, we need men's stories.
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We need to understand and hear their experiences.
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They're incredibly valuable. But I think as a leader, being
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intentional about creating space for women's stories, whether
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that's, you know, asking women to come forward and share their
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stories and sometimes not doing that in a, in a pub, you know,
17:46
not in the town hall meeting, maybe, but like one-on-one.
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Hey, I know you've, you had this experience.
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I'd love for you to share this and encouraging women and and
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and and helping to make them feel like their story is of
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interest and ballot. Yeah, it's it's relevant also to
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other people. Right.
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Yeah. Yeah, because I remember an
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episode I taped a while ago with the people from Muse.
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It's a Dutch startup and they have this culture where that is
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like really inclusive. So it doesn't matter what your
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background is, it doesn't matter who you are as long as you
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perform. Of course, within the realm of
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the company, everyone can get a space and can create a space for
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themselves. And I that's also encouraged
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from even from ACEO level down. Like, OK, hey, listen, I think
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it's important for you to tell the story because you're a role.
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You could be a role model to many other women in the company.
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Yeah, exactly. That intentional.
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That intentional action by leadership.
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So important. Yeah.
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So one, one of the things that I hear a lot is OK, is the
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question, OK, how do I stay authentic as a woman?
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How? And maybe because you worked at
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where you work actually at the intersection of PR and
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storytelling, maybe also double click on on how you do that for,
19:20
for company. How do you create a storyline
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that's sort of, on the one hand, authentic to who you are, but
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also give space to the promotion that is needed to build a
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business? Yeah, I think that as founders,
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anyways, I'll speak in the context of founders building
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companies. I think that it's absolutely
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possible to do both, right. And when you're a founder,
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you're creating a business based on a market opportunity, but
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also an internal interest in pursuing that.
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And so there's a there's going to be a natural place where
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those two things intersect. And so I think it can be both.
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And frankly, for story to connect and work, it has to be
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both. There has to be a human
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authentic elements and then also, yeah, a market.
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Connection, right, that personal interest connected with the
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market need and like how is that coming together and what is that
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story? I think I will say DJ, one of
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the things I'm always counseling women and, and my clients on is
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not being afraid of the tension within ourselves, within the
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industry, within our companies. And how do we kind of harness
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that tension to create an interesting story?
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In business, we're often taught to be stoic, to be non
20:37
emotional, but that's exactly the opposite of how we connect
20:41
as human beings, right? We connect on the emotional
20:43
level and by telling stories that don't shy away from
20:47
tension, we can really connect. Yeah, yeah.
20:51
Interesting that you mentioned this stoic way of communicating
20:56
that we're we're told because indeed that and that's very
21:01
male. So it's very rational almost you
21:04
thou shall not show emotions at all.
21:08
And I've yeah, I so I appreciate you saying that.
21:13
It's also in it's in fact productive to use emotions and
21:18
feelings and and indeed call out attention.
21:22
Make it feasible, maybe even make it bigger to to increase
21:27
the impact of the story. Yes.
21:30
So, so, so on on tension. How do how do you make sure you
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don't? Can you overdo that?
21:37
So yes, you can overdo tension. You don't want to.
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It's just like, you know, soap operas, we or whatever, I don't
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know if these are exist in all cultures, but in the United
21:46
States we have these soap operas, these overly.
21:48
Yeah, we have them too. OK, television shows, right?
21:52
That, you know, if it's overly dramatic, it's not authentic,
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it's not sincere. We don't believe it.
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It needs to come from a sincere place.
22:00
And tension and conflict are not difficult to identify and to
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harness with startups, right, because they're disrupting,
22:09
they're starting a business in order to disrupt a status quo or
22:12
something. It's a little bit harder in
22:14
large companies that are a little more risk adverse, right,
22:17
to work with leaders there to find the tension.
22:20
And so we will often it's, we don't usually have a problem of
22:23
overdoing tension in those environments.
22:25
Our challenge is usually, OK, where is the tension really?
22:28
Where is the tension? And what can we, what can we tap
22:32
into there to create a human connection with folks?
22:37
And so my, you know, you don't have to over index to use that
22:40
word. Again, you don't have to over
22:41
index on it. We're not looking to create
22:44
drama. We're just looking to create.
22:46
I mean, interest change doesn't happen without tension.
22:49
Transformation doesn't without tension.
22:50
Whether we're people or businesses, it's required.
22:53
And so I think if we can be less fearful of that, we can do so
22:57
much more. Yeah.
23:00
So I want to switch gears a bit because you're building
23:04
something which I think is amazing.
23:07
It's a story changes culture master class.
23:12
When you started building this, what was the core gap you are
23:17
trying to fill? The core gap is what I was
23:20
talking about earlier. It's surround narrative power
23:23
being cultural power. So again, whoever has the space
23:27
and the means to tell their story, whether it's the personal
23:31
story, the business story or a combination of both, has power.
23:34
And that power is to influence, to engage.
23:37
So that from a business perspective, that's to drive
23:39
revenue and opportunities. From a personal perspective,
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it's to be seen. I work with, you know, founders
23:45
and executives as well as artists.
23:47
For artists, it's the ability to have their work seen and
23:50
potentially have their work shared and or purchased, right.
23:54
So it's, it's that and I and again, I see that gap because so
23:58
many of our spaces are taken up by men's stories.
24:03
And so, you know, creating more space for women's stories.
24:06
And when I say that, what I mean is helping women learn how to
24:09
harness their story and then elevate that story.
24:11
So architecting it like, what is the story and how do we tell it?
24:15
You know, what are the characters, what's the tension?
24:17
What's the what's the overcoming the odds part of these stories?
24:22
And not every story has all of those elements.
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And that's OK. But like those are some of the
24:25
key elements. And then how do we elevate that?
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How do we get that out there in a world of chaotic media, right?
24:33
Social media and traditional media and all of the ways that
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we can tell story? So that was the gap and also a
24:41
financial gap, right? If, unless you own a company and
24:45
have the means to partner with a communications or storytelling
24:49
firm, you may not think you have access to learn how to tell your
24:53
story. But the master class is priced
24:56
for the individual. So, you know, if you're inside
25:00
of a company and want to do this and maybe you have a training
25:02
budget or maybe you don't, it should still be somewhat
25:05
affordable. So there is a cost gap that I
25:07
was trying to fill as well. Oh, oh, that's so it's actually
25:11
in that sense also very inclusive because it includes
25:14
people who wouldn't ordinarily have access to this.
25:18
A big budget, right? Exactly.
25:20
Yeah, Yeah. So, so maybe good to to pick
25:24
apart all of the elements of a good story then, because you
25:28
hinted upon a number like the odds, like the tension, like a
25:32
good character is, is there a sort of minimum set that you
25:37
really have to have to include word?
25:41
Well, I would say that we all embody all of these things.
25:44
So, so they're all of us have all of this inside of us and our
25:48
stories. And so it's not a matter of
25:50
whether or not you have the elements of a story or not.
25:53
You do. It's just a matter of working
25:56
with yourself or with someone else to really pull those things
25:58
out and then construct them in a way that's going to engage with
26:02
people. And all of the things we've been
26:04
talking about, right? Emotion, tension.
26:06
But yeah, you know, there's the, there's, I think we're all
26:09
really familiar with the founder origin story, right?
26:11
Who are we? What makes us tick?
26:13
Why are we doing this? Why now?
26:17
So kind of really getting into the character of you and the
26:20
character of your company. And then, you know, what is the
26:23
industry landscape? What is the technology or
26:25
innovation landscape? What's at stake if we don't
26:29
correct this problem or solve this problem in our industry?
26:32
What's at stake? What's, what do we have to lose?
26:35
So stakes are really important tension and then how are we
26:39
going to overcome this? I mean, in human literature and
26:44
pop culture, across cultures, you know, across the world, we
26:48
are very comfortable with resolution, resilience.
26:51
OK, there's all this tension now.
26:53
How is that being solved and wrapped up in a nice little bow?
26:57
I mean, as we know, life doesn't always work that way.
26:59
But in the stories we tell and consume, we often like that,
27:03
overcoming the odds and finding a way to move forward.
27:06
And I find that, frankly in women's stories in particular,
27:11
because there is a lot of adversity, there is a lot of
27:13
overcoming the odds and then rising above that.
27:16
So a lot of inspiration. Yeah, for sure.
27:21
I just want to double click because on one thing, because
27:25
you talk to artists and I work with artists too as a as a sort
27:32
of side job. And my experience with them,
27:39
whether that's men or women, by the way, doesn't really matter.
27:43
But they're they're like of the opinion, like, OK, my work
27:47
should solve should sell itself. So if they're people are not
27:52
convinced about the quality of my work, then don't buy it.
28:02
So how, how can artists and and by extension also women who are
28:09
also maybe thinking like, OK, I do a lot of work, I do a lot of
28:14
things to get at the same time or, or sort of in in the same
28:19
time space. How can they sort of, I wouldn't
28:25
say overcome, but how can they turn this in their favour?
28:31
How can they use or avoid the trap or use actually the the
28:38
fuel it gives them to really sell their story?
28:42
Effectively, OK, I think let me summarize that question.
28:47
So you're asking how they can overcome the skepticism that
28:54
people. And that they self have also
28:57
towards themselves. OK, Yeah.
29:01
Well, there's a lot of work to be done there, right?
29:03
And it's different for everybody, I think.
29:06
I will say, you know, you mentioned, you know, artists, I
29:09
think art is subjective, right? And I, but I also think all art,
29:15
whether it's books, painting, digital art, there's an audience
29:21
for it, right? If you are inspired to create
29:24
it, then there are other humans who are probably inspired to
29:28
engage with it. And I think remembering that and
29:32
knowing that at a fundamental level can help.
29:37
When you go to tell that story externally, your story is going
29:40
to connect with other people. And so I think just knowing that
29:45
and being confident in that. And also when it comes to art,
29:49
something I think about because I, I am a writer and I am
29:52
working on a number of writing projects at least.
29:56
And I think staying focused too on the creation and the flow
30:00
that comes with creating art and worrying about how you're going
30:04
to tell the story about the art and getting it out there.
30:08
Wait until you're through the process of the flow of that
30:10
particular piece of art. Don't let that that part, you
30:14
know, get in the way. I think there's a time and a
30:16
place with the creation of art for the story to thence, and the
30:21
story is going to start to emerge through the process of
30:23
creating the art, right? Yeah.
30:27
Anyways, I don't know if I answered your question DJ, but
30:29
there are some thoughts. But there are, I, I definitely
30:32
think that's important to, to remember that you, that there is
30:36
an audience for you and to some extent that the argument that if
30:41
you don't like it, you don't buy it actually does hold.
30:45
Absolutely from the other side, I can tell you that it is
30:48
frustrating when people, a lot of people come in and don't buy
30:53
your piece of art or don't buy your song or don't buy your
30:57
book. That's and I I think on the back
31:02
of what you said, people should not be discouraged if they fail
31:06
once because life is all about failure and learning from it.
31:11
That's absolutely right. And I think, you know, your art
31:14
will find its audience and creating art how it's, it's,
31:18
it's interesting, right, because it's emotional, right?
31:21
And when it connects on an emotional level, just like
31:24
story, you know, that's when people want to engage with it.
31:28
Yeah. So we talked about the
31:31
importance of storytelling in leadership.
31:33
We talked about the importance of storytelling for women
31:37
particular we talked about tension, how not to overdo and
31:41
how not to under do it or so I was wondering what is role of
31:47
agency in in building a good story and how do you think it's
31:52
missing? I love this question because
31:56
it's critical. It's, it's absolutely necessary.
31:59
And when you don't have agency in telling your story, it falls
32:03
flat. That's how you know that you're
32:05
not, you know, you're not using your agency to tell the story is
32:09
when it falls flat because agency is passion and drive and
32:14
intention and confidence in knowing that your story is
32:18
worthy and needs to be told. And that's some of the work that
32:21
I do with our clients. So it's absolutely important.
32:25
And you know when it's not working because it falls flat,
32:27
it doesn't connect. Yeah.
32:29
Is that also in part psychological work?
32:34
I think so. I think so.
32:35
We've kind of been dancing around that and I do a lot of
32:38
that type of work with clients. But certainly like professional
32:42
coaches, really good professional coaches I think can
32:45
help in this regard. I'm not a professional coach.
32:48
Usually folks come to me when they've either done that work or
32:51
they're starting to want to tell their story.
32:52
And then they've they've got some professional coach work to
32:55
do and I'll introduce them to folks and they'll work with us
32:57
in parallel. But yeah, I think that's
32:59
absolutely right, DJ. Yeah.
33:02
So last topic I want to double click on is, is how to take the
33:08
right perspective because the story matter in the story.
33:13
It matters from whose perspective you're telling it.
33:17
How do you How do you choose the right perspective to strengthen
33:23
your story? Yeah.
33:26
So the perspective of the story that you're telling needs to be
33:31
your perspective, needs to be genuinely, sincerely,
33:36
authentically your perspective and really embracing that.
33:41
You know, no one else has your brain or your perspective except
33:46
for you. And so even if you're talking or
33:48
telling a story that you feel like has been told before, maybe
33:51
in a different way and hasn't been told by you, right?
33:54
And that's what makes it different.
33:56
And so your individual unique perspective on the story is
34:01
what's most important. Yeah, so I actually use the fact
34:08
that you're a unique human being.
34:10
Right. To take your to to.
34:13
Yeah, to pick your perspective. I mean, your unique human
34:17
experience has LED you to this point in time where you're doing
34:22
this thing, building this business, creating this art,
34:24
whatever it might be. And like, how do we tap into
34:28
that lived experience to tell your unique story?
34:31
Again, even if it's about something that is, you know,
34:34
people talk about all the time. What is your perspective?
34:37
What do you bring to it? Yeah.
34:40
And then trust on that there is an audience for you as well.
34:45
Yes, that's. Where the audience trust in the
34:52
audience that artists need to have also applies to to
34:56
storytellers. Like actually, storytellers are
34:59
artists. Yes, indeed.
35:01
Yes, indeed. Yes, I agree.
35:04
So it's actually about waking up the an artist.
35:08
Oh, I love that. Yeah.
35:09
I want to move towards the end because a bit like what you do
35:15
with story changes culture and with the master class, this
35:20
podcast and and also the app that I'm developing is about
35:25
elevating the stories over indexing on the stories of women
35:30
founders and to to also help them get funding for, for their
35:36
startup. So I was wondering, in your
35:40
expert opinion, what's the storytelling element do you see
35:45
currently underused that you would like to see overused or at
35:54
least get appropriate attention? Well, we've touched on them
35:59
during the course of our conversation, but I'll just put
36:01
a fine point on them. I think character not being
36:04
scared to tell your personal story, the personal is the
36:10
professional and the professional is the personal.
36:12
And so you as a character in the story is really, really
36:16
critical. And then we've talked a lot
36:18
about tension. But I'll say it again, because
36:20
no matter how much I talk about it, businesses continue to be
36:23
adversed to it, which is just, you know, which is I, I
36:26
understand why, but you know, finding that tension and define,
36:30
you can define what that tension is, right?
36:32
But finding that tension, whether it's an industry tension
36:35
and you're going to help overcome it, or it's a tension
36:38
within yourself that you are using to harness to go attack
36:41
this problem and solve it. There's all kinds of ways to
36:44
look at that. But I'd say the character, who
36:46
are you? What's your origin story?
36:47
What's your lived experience? How is that?
36:50
You know, how are you bringing that to bear?
36:52
And then how are you creating tension to connect on a human
36:54
level? That sounds like great advice to
36:58
close on. So Jennifer Klower, thank you
37:01
very much for this amazing interview.
37:03
Really enjoyed it. If people would like to connect
37:06
with you and learn more about you and about your story changes
37:10
Culture Master Class. Where would you like to send
37:13
them? Our website
37:14
storychangesculture.com so very easy and subscribe to our
37:18
newsletter. It goes out on the last Tuesday
37:20
of every month and has all kinds of good stories, women's stories
37:24
as well as information. Cool, and you can probably use
37:28
those stories as input for your own.
37:31
Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much, DJ.
37:34
Yeah, thank you very much, listeners.
37:36
Thank you very much for listening.
37:38
And until the next episode, as always, keep being awesome.
37:53
Well, that's it. Thank you for listening to
37:55
episode 147 of Women Disrupting Tech titled The Anatomy of a
38:01
Female Founder Story That Drives Action with Jennifer Clover.
38:05
Jennifer and I hope that you found our conversation as
38:08
instructive and insightful as we intended it to be.
38:11
And if you have any questions for Jennifer, please leave them
38:14
in the comments section on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple
38:18
Podcasts. I do read all the comments and
38:20
I'll make sure you get an answer.
38:23
If you want to connect with Jennifer or learn more about
38:26
Story Changes Culture and the Story Changes Culture Master
38:29
class, you can do so via the links in the show notes.
38:33
As usual, you can find the show notes at Women Disrupting Tech
38:37
Talk blog and on my Subtech find the links in the caption.
38:41
If you found the episode useful, please take a moment to rate and
38:44
review the show on Spotify, Apple Podcast for YouTube.
38:47
And if you don't follow us yet, hit the follow or subscribe
38:51
button so you'll never miss a future episode.
38:54
Once again, thank you for listening.
38:56
I hope to see you in the next episode.
38:58
And until then, as always, keep being awesome.