Latest / Coffee and Bible Time Podcast / Nurturing Faith and Family with the Enneagram | Beth McCord

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Nurturing Faith and Family with the Enneagram | Beth McCord · Coffee and Bible Time Podcast

• 1:01
  Speaker 1: At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Our goal is to help you delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Each week we talk to subject matter experts who broaden your biblical understanding, encourage you in hard times and provide life-building tips to enhance your Christian walk.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: We are so glad you have joined us.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: This is Ellen, your host.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: You know many parents feel overwhelmed by parenting challenges and the pressure to just not mess up their kids, and this stress can lead to feelings of guilt, shame and insecurity.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: And, let's face it, we all want to be the most effective parents that we can be.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: We want to instill deep connections with God and with our families.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Well, our guest today, beth McCord, widely known as your Enneagram coach and author of the Enneagram for Moms, offers a transformative approach to motherhood.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: By blending Enneagram wisdom with practical insights, she helps moms cultivate resilience, self-awareness and deep connections with their families and God.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: So stay with us as we discuss how to use the Enneagram in accordance with our Christian faith to be more effective parents.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Beth McCord is an accomplished Enneagram speaker, author, coach and teacher.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Her passion lies in helping individuals rewrite their life stories, empowering them to realize that lasting change and meaningful relationships are possible.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Beth's mission led to creating the your Enneagram Coach community, which is a nurturing space where individuals safely explore the Enneagram.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: As a recognized Enneagram leader, beth has honed her expertise through extensive training and certifications under renowned experts.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Today, she simplifies Enneagram insights from a faith-based perspective, making it accessible to people from all walks of life.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Please welcome Beth.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Hey, thank you for having me.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: You are so welcome, beth.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited to talk to you about this topic today because I am a huge fan of the Enneagram, because I've seen firsthand how it improved my life and really helped me better understand my family members' motivations and just all my interactions with them as well.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: So this is a, I think, can be a real life-changing topic for people.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I absolutely agree, because it did the same for me.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, we're going to hear more about that For our listeners.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Let's just start out with maybe they don't know what the Enneagram is.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Could you just briefly describe it, what it is and how it can be an effective parenting tool?
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so when you look at the Enneagram symbol, it looks like a nine pointed star, and each of those points represent a basic personality type, and these personalities are describing why you think, feel and behave in your particular way.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: So it's getting to those core motivations.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: The why is the big thing, and that's really helpful because so many personalities show you what you do.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: But why do you do it?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: And that is also really helpful in our Christian faith because God is looking at the heart and the motives, not the outward behaviors.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: So this helps us to have astonishing clarity of what's going on on the inside, but we do it in a way that doesn't.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: We don't want to bring shame and criticism and self-condemnation.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: All of that has been taken care of by Christ.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: What we are wanting is for people to leave the shame, the judgment, the self-condemnation and, as they experience the love of Christ, they're going to be set free to be who he created them to be in a way that is most honoring to Christ.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: And so you can do that very thing without the Enneagram, or you can use the Enneagram to kind of bring this clarity of your internal world.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Think of the Enneagram as your internal GPS.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: You have your current location, which is your main Enneagram type, but you have a healthiest destination.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: You know what it would look like when you are aligned with the gospel, and so the Enneagram can help you to understand when you're kind of heading down that path towards health and growth and transformation.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: But it also is going to let you know when you're misaligned with the gospel and you're struggling.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: But again, we don't use it to bring shame.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: We use it as think of it like a rumble strip on the highway, a warning system like oh you know what these attributes that may feel normal to you are actually the same attributes that are going to get you hung up and maybe fall into a common pitfall.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: So why not use this kind of alert system so that we can come back to the gospel, back to the truth, back to Christ and allow him to help us to be the best, healthiest version of who he made us to be, not somebody else who he made us to be.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: And so the Enneagram brings that astonishing clarity that so many of us have been looking for, and now you can have it.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: So true, well, sort of the beginning process of this is the assessment tool, which is the online quiz that you have, and I've taken other ones, and I took yours as well which I thought it was great.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Tell me, though, about you, beth what's your Enneagram number and how did learning it change your life?
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I started actually learning about the Enneagram back in 2001, when I was 26 years old.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: I'd already been married six years.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: We got married really young and we had at this time both of our kids.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: So we really started life young and kids young.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: But with that kind of comes some turbulence, because we didn't really know ourselves very well, let alone each other.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: We were trying, but it's hard when you're so young, and so we had some friends that were seeing a counselor and the counselor recommended the Enneagram.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: So our friend said hey, you might be interested in this.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: And so I looked at this book and, man, I just dove headlong into it and found my type right away.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: I am the type nine, the peaceful accommodator, and it really helped me to understand why I was having a hard time explaining myself to my husband, who really wanted to know me so that you know he could improve his side of the marriage.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: But I just didn't have a lot to offer.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what to tell him, and so the Enneagram helped me to understand.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, as type nines, we hate conflict and tension of any kind and I would rather just go along to get along, which means I don't really focus on myself or my internal world, because I'm just trying to appease everyone else.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: That's why I couldn't explain myself to him because there was this internal fog.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: But the Enneagram helped me to understand what was actually going on in the inside.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: But I also gave vocabulary to what I knew was true but didn't know how to say it, and so with that I was able to talk to Jeff a lot more authentically because it was right there before me and that really helped us then to understand one another.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Think of each of the Enneagram types, like having glasses on in each type being a different shade of lenses.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: So like I'm a purple shade, he's a type six and orange shade, let's say.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: And one we get to recognize how we see the world and why we react the way we do, based on our core motivations.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: But what if we can actually take off our lens for just a second and put on their lens and see the world in a whole new way, like, oh wow, you really do see the world differently, you think differently, you react differently, which gives us the ability to have compassion, to have understanding, forgiveness and love on a whole deeper level, because we're actually seeing them for who they really are, not who we kind of want to make them into be.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: And so, for Jeff and I, the Enneagram just helped us two things Helped us to see ourselves with clarity Actually, three things.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: The Enneagram just helped us two things.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Helped us to see ourselves with clarity Actually three things.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Helped us to see each other with clarity, but also helped us to see how God created us in such a beautiful and unique way.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Hmm, I love hearing your story and just recognizing that as a young couple it's okay like to get help and to that this Enneagram book was there and you were able to use it and just how God kind of orchestrated that in your life and what it turned into now, helping so many people use theirs as well.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: I find it so interesting as well that you're a nine on the Enneagram.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: My daughter, taylor, is, and she's the one that introduced the book to me.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay, she's like Mama.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I think you might want to read this, and what amazed me was just how perceptive she is, and I'm sure you are.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: You can pick up on so many of these things that, to be quite frank, I'm a three and I was just completely clueless as far as just not being self-aware.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Right, and that's what's so beautiful about the Enneagram.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: So the type nines we see through all nine types lenses because we really want to keep the peace, and so it's advantageous for us to understand all the perspectives the best we can.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: The Enneagram just makes it a quick cheat sheet and so, yeah, you know, your daughter probably had the ability to see aspects in you and others that maybe they weren't aware of, that she could pick up on, and we pick up on energy.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Is someone okay, is someone off?
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Is there tension in the room and conflict, or is everyone okay?
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: And we feel it within our body.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: So that's probably what she was picking up on.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Definitely Well.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: You described the Enneagram as being like an onion with many additional layers.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Can you help explain?
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: that there's so many layers, even just to the symbol, and the symbol really helps us to understand why it's so dynamic.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: But also it's a map of our internal world and what I mean by that is.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: So, as a type nine, I'm at the very top of the Enneagram, so like a star, the very pointed top of this nine pointed star.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: But right next to my type are the type one and the type eight, and those are called wings.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: So the numbers on either side of your main types number are your wings, just like a bird has wings right next to it, right attached to it, and we use those wings in various ways.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: We don't become those Enneagram types.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: We remain our main Enneagram type but we use their attributes, um, and we will use them according to our health, whether we're healthy, average or unhealthy.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: We'll do the same with the wings and um.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: So we kind of bring in these attributes and I tell people, think of it like salt and pepper.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Your main type is a filet mignon and you're cooking this beautiful filet mignon.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: When you're healthy, you're going to season it just right, bringing out the best aspects of it.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: But when you're not doing so well, you can over season and, as we all know that's not as pleasurable, and so we can use these two types to bring out and enhance the things that we have going on, or it can be a problematic plus on the symbol, your main type is connected to two other types through the lines, and it's the same type of idea.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: We will use attributes from those two numbers as well, in healthy to unhealthy ways, depending on where our heart condition is.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: In healthy to unhealthy ways, depending on where our heart condition is, and that's what's so amazing about the Enneagram is that it's helping you to understand your heart condition.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Are you aligned, misaligned or out of alignment with the truth of the gospel?
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Do you know who you are and whose you are so often now, the greatest thing about the gospel is your relationship status doesn't change, but as we're going through our day to day things, our heart and our mind can wander from the truth, even though our relationship status is intact, and so there's times where we're wandering off, thinking I got to control life here and there.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: God's doing great work over there, but I'm not sure about this thing.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: But then there's seasons of life where we might feel like we're an orphan all alone and we got to just go about it ourselves when actually that's not true at all, because we are his beloved.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: So the Enneagram is going to help give you a map of understanding of what it looks like when your type is healthy and aligned with the gospel, averaged, starting to struggle, misaligned.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: And then when you're really unhealthy and you feel like you're an orphan, all alone in life, not again to bring the shame and the self-condemnation.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Remember Romans 8, 1,.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: There's now no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: So we can look at it and be able to rightly assess and own our frailties, our sins, weaknesses, but give it right back to Christ.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: And one thank him for taking care of it on the cross, but also thank him that he will work in us a new spirit and a new way to become healthier.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: And that's when we surrender and depend on him.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: And the Enneagram is going to give you that map to say hey for your personality type.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Here's the healthier route for you.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: And it's not like you're just pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and you just do it.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: It's like you're praying and asking God for my personality type.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I can see that these would be really healthy aspects and that's really hard for me to do right, because growth is hard.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Would you enable that within me?
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Would you show me how to live that out on a day-to-day basis?
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I know it's going to be hard.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of pruning that needs to be done, but I know that that's what you want from me.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Would you enable my heart to go there?
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: And what you want from me, would you enable my heart to go there?
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: And of course he will.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: And so that's where the Enneagram can be so dynamic and there's so many layers and I've only touched on just a few of the layers, but again, it just brings so much clarity and, when used rightly with the gospel, you have this sense of grace and wholeness embracing you through Christ, this sense of grace and wholeness embracing you through Christ, Absolutely.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking back to when I first learned about it and just really understanding both what my weaknesses are and my strengths, and just to see how God made me in that way.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: But in particular, you know, one of my weaknesses is like putting on masks and maybe you know not being who I really am, but who I think people think that I should be.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great way of saying it, yeah.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: That's a great way of saying it, yeah, and I think what learning this did for me was almost like give me permission to just know this is who I am.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly Well, and that's where it's so beautiful, because, like as a type three, we call them the admirable achievers.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: The type three is going to fear being exposed, being a failure, unsuccessful, not being admired or have worth, and so what they desire is to have value, to accomplish, to achieve, to be successful and admired.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: They're going to struggle with a core weakness of deceit.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Now here's what deceit, in the Enneagram, means that you're deceiving yourself into believing that you're only the image that you present to others and that you can only gain love through the recognition of your successes and accomplishments or pleasing other people in some form or fashion, especially with a certain image or status, and that is really burdensome.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: All the nine types have their own fears, desires, weakness and I'm going to get to the core longing here in a second and they all have their struggles, and so and they're all just as hard, they just look different, no-transcript Whereas the core longing that they so this is the message their heart longs to hear is to hear you are loved for simply being you.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: So, then, what's great is that the opening door for transformation is that the gospel says.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Well, basically, christ says, but through what he has done is he looks at you and he says I love you for simply being you.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: You don't have to accomplish and achieve.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: In fact, he accomplished and achieved everything that you need and he gave it to you.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: So you have the best status in the world, you have the best accomplishments and all these things.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: And so when the three is able to fully embrace that and go, wow, my image is his image, my status is his status and I am loved for just being me, even in my weaknesses and frailties, because he knows it all.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: It allows the three to relax and not be a human doing, but be a human being.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Does that sound right?
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: for you.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I love that.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: A human doing, or a human being instead of a human doing yeah, that pretty much describes it.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: All of this is just so fascinating to me too, even just looking at how my childhood impacted that and looking and seeing like I know I was like trying to get my parents' attention and when I learned that good grades was one way to do it, so then I like achieve right, it's achieving, achieving.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: So it is interesting how all of the family dynamics come into play, and I know we specifically want to talk and encourage parents here and tell us how important it is for the parent to sort of understand this for themselves first, before they can then focus on their kids.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a great question.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: In fact I wrote the book that they need, not what they want, and I know because I wanted the book written when my kids were little.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: I just wanted the Nathan instruction manual and the Libby instruction manual.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Those are my kids Like just just tell me their Enneagram, type, tell me what to do, done, you know.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: But God just doesn't do it that way.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: You actually can't type anyone because it's all about the core motivations and none of us know anyone else's internal world.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: And so the kid is going to have to find their type, and the earliest they're going to be able to do that is in the teenage years, if they're kind of an old soul and have done some own like kind of just self observation.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: But it's probably going to be older than that, and so that means that the parent really needs to use the tool of the Enneagram to understand themselves.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: And when you can understand yourselves from a gospel centered perspective, it enables you to, like I said earlier, to understand yourself, to own and recognize your shortcomings or how you're not in your healthiest place, but from a viewpoint of compassion towards yourself, a viewpoint of understanding, so that you can move towards your real status, which is being Christ's beloved, and then allowing the truth of the gospel to actually help you to become more self-regulated, to be able to have this non-anxious, connected presence with your kids, because, as we all know, our kids can activate us really quickly.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: But what the Enneagram is going to do is it's going to tell you and show you why you're getting activated, and why you're getting activated is unique to your personality type.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: It's not universal.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, some of it looks like it's universal.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: But, for instance, for you as a type three versus me as a type nine, you want your kids and this is just a generalization, not necessarily in this very moment, but threes in general want their kids to put on a persona, you know, an image that they're, they've got it all put together, that they're succeeding in life, that they're appropriately, let's say, dressed for their community, and so they're kind of putting their best foot forward.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Well, for me as a nine, if my, so, if your kids were to like, let's say, dress up in you know something that was the complete opposite, that could really activate something inside you like, wait, something's wrong.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: This isn't okay, you know, and and a three is going to maybe try to help the kid to become what they want them to become.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: But a nine does the same thing, but for different reasons.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: For me, I want to make everyone happy so that there's no conflict and tension.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: It's not about the image, it's about I don't want to upset anyone, um, and so I might want to have my kids dress or do a certain thing so that I don't upset the people around me, but then it's what struggles for the nine is.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: But I also don't want to upset my kids.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I don't want to have conflict.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Do I even want to enter into this battle once again, or am I going to be passive?
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: And so you can see that for us parents, if we can know what activates us and why, then we can work through those dynamics and issues so that when it does happen, we are better equipped to self-regulate ourselves and explain ourselves instead of just being reactive around our kids.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: And then we can model this for our kids and encourage them to have a deeper, more honest relationship with us, because we're doing that with them.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: So this is just such a resource, a good resource to bring depth and clarity into our relationships.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: It's not about making our kids be a certain way.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: It is really to help us parents to be self-regulated, to enter their worlds in a way that allows them to blossom, to who God created them to be.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, when I first started learning about it, not only was I interested in learning about my number, but I really wanted to learn about all the numbers so that, just like you've described my relationship with my husband, I could better understand what his core motivations were, and each of my children as well, and it really opened my eyes to becoming maybe more understanding, asking more questions, or if I knew of a specific characteristic.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Let's say, if they're normally skeptical, then I can help provide some reassurance or more information that, more fully, will make them feel comfortable.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: So it is really helpful to kind of understand all of them, even though you want to know which one yours is.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: What would you say would be the best place for someone who's just starting this journey of becoming more self-aware?
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Where would they start?
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we've got lots of things at your Enneagram coachcom.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: We have some free resources on there to learn about the types.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: You can also take some courses.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: We also have coaches that have been certified through us and gone through a training that if you actually want a coach to help you find your type because some people get a little confused and that's totally normal they can take you there and then they can even take you further.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Um, but if they're like you know what, I just want something just to kind of ease myself into.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Of course, any of our books would be great, but I would go to our YouTube channel, so it's just your Enneagram coach.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: And in the playlist there's a playlist called Ennea basics and that is going to be me walking you through a brief overview of what the Enneagram is and then a description of all nine types and how to find your type, and they're all really short and very doable, and so that could be an excellent way for them to get a grasp not just of what the Enneagram is but what each type is really about not just of what the Enneagram is, but what each type is really about.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's great.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: We will make sure we put a link to that in our show notes.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: So in your book you have this framework called Awaken.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Tell us what that is and how we can use it effectively.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: How we can use it effectively.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so awaken is a great starting point, which actually is goes with the, the acronym aware.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: So aware is.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: This acronym that we use in the first letter is awaken.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: So awaken is basically we don't even realize that we're, we've fallen asleep to ourselves, even though personalities out there that think they know themselves really well, you'd be so surprised at how little you actually do know yourself, or at least with the clarity and the precision that's going to really help you.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So we want parents and people in general just to awaken to their thoughts, feelings, body sensations and inclinations.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: So, for instance, when, let's say, my husband starts to get a little passionate and this could be passionate, happy, passionate, upset, that's energy, and it feels like tension to my body my body starts to get like a little alarm signals and I just kind of want to tamp it all down, like okay, like just calm down, like let's not go there, but it could be the best situation ever.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: But my body is reacting to the energy around me and so by awakening to how my personality reacts to these situations, it will help me to then better assess the situation and deal with it.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: So then the second is W, which is welcome.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: So once.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: I know that this is happening a lot of times.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: What we do is we shame ourselves or we put ourselves down when we're aware of something.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: But let's not do that, because that only actually makes us spiral out into unhealthy patterns quicker.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Since we know Christ has taken care of everything and the judgment has already been taken care of, then we can welcome these observations without self-condemnation and shame.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Little energetic, even if it's a good thing.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I can recognize that my body wants to stop this energy, this tension in the room, and that's okay.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, I see that that's happening.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: It's making me want to do something and I can assess this, so I welcome.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: But then I want to ask that's the second A ask what is true, and that might be asking just my internal self.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, like what is actually true here?
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: I'll give you a great example.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: When my husband would wrestle with our kids, you know, and tickle them on the floor when they were really little, that's a wonderful thing, right, because your husband, the father, is playing with their kids.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: But everything in me was like, please stop, you know, because it's loud, there's lots of energy and it just feels very chaotic.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: But my eyes are looking at this going.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: This is good.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: So I can ask myself, okay, is this a good situation or a bad situation?
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Obviously, this is a good situation, okay, so that's what's true here.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Now I want to receive that truth, and sometimes receiving truth can be really challenging because it's not always something that we want to know.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: So the truth here for me was my personality, for one reason or another and I kind of know what the reasons are want to shut this down.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I welcome that.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I understand that the situation is good.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: I want to receive this awareness and now, with E, which is engage engage in a new way.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: So I have now several options.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: In the past, when I didn't know, I didn't have any options.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: I just reacted like guys stop, you know, this is like too loud, too, whatever, you know.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Well, now I can go, huh, okay, so everything's fine.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: I can either go into the bedroom and let them play and just kind of calm my internal world down.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I can put in earbuds, you know, and kind of noise canceling, you know.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: So you kind of still hear it, but it's not so intense.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Or, if I can't do those things, for you know, whatever's going on, maybe you're like one time this happened at a restaurant and they were kind of having this fun little spa debate thing.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: They're fine, they're happy.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: But I was really activated inside and I did all these things and I could tell everything's okay, they're saying they're having fun, but I wasn't okay, like I couldn't get out of feeling disrupted inside and so, because I couldn't leave and I couldn't put in earbuds, I simply just said hey guys, I totally know everything's fine.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you for you know, for clarifying that.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: But for whatever reason, I'm really just feeling dysregulated and I just kind of can't seem to get a grasp.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Is it okay if we change the topic, you know?
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: But because we've had these kinds of conversations before and I'm not blaming them, I'm not targeting them, I'm not.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: You know, you don't want to use the Enneagram as a sword or as a shield.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I'm not going.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, you guys are always blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, or your type is always this way, or I'm not using it as a shield going.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Well, guys, I'm a nine, you're just going to have to put up with this.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: No, I have tried to calm myself down with the truth but for whatever reason, I'm still feeling pretty dysregulated and activated and I'm simply asking for what I need in a respectful way that doesn't blame them.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: So this is where the AWARE acronym can really be helpful, because it enables us to stay more present and fully engaged in our relationships, but without the anxiety and the reactions that get us all spun out, but without the anxiety and the reactions that get us all spun out.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Hmm, that is such a great tool that is simple enough that anyone can do it and certainly effective.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: That's so helpful.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: One thing that I recognized from your book was that we get into cycles of conflicts and things that you called it the dance.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Tell us how, parents, if we recognize this, we can use it as a tool to help us between Enneagram types.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: So the dance is a way of seeing the relationship between two people, two Enneagram types, and so what we use is the infinity loop, and so one loop is one person, the other loop is the other person and their Enneagram types.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Inside the loop are your core motivations, your Enneagram types.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Core motivations, the core fear, desire, weakness and longing.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: And again, everything hinges off of that your thoughts, your feelings, your behaviors.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: And so when you look at the infinity loop, you draw a horizontal line, um, down the middle, and then underneath that horizontal line is your heart condition.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's kind of under the water, so to speak, like that iceberg.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: It's not what you can typically see or recognize quickly, and others definitely can't see and recognize it because it's your internal world.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Above this line is your behavior, your thought, like how you come across to others.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: So if you look at the left infinity loop in your mind for a second, when you are interacting with someone and I'll use my husband as an example, and but you can use this with your kids, um, when you know their type, and I'll get to how to use it when you don't know their type.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: But my husband is a type six and so he is the faithful guardian.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: One of his biggest core fears is being um is being abandoned or, like me, withdrawing completely.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: So kind of that abandonment thought and it makes him feel very insecure and alone, energetic.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: You know, if there's some like actual tension there, my personality hates conflict and tension of all kind and I would just rather shut down emotionally, shut down the relationship in the moment and actually go away.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: And so what happens?
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: So my infinity loop, so my heart condition, when I'm feeling that tension around, I'm being activated by the tension and the conflict and discord.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: What goes at the top of my infinity loop is the behavior which is me starting to check out, numb out, disassociate or maybe even physically withdrawing my presence.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Well, that then lands at the bottom of his infinity loop.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Right, so we're going down the infinity loop and it activates his core fear of abandonment.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: And when he's activated his behaviors to actually pursue harder cause, he's so afraid, like his thoughts when we were younger, is like, is this the beginning of the end?
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: And I mean that the fear, the terror was like I've got to fix this, we've got to figure this out.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Well, his pursuit only again then come down to my side of the infinity loop only made me want to run harder Like this is too much.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: There's too much tension, and so you can see how our core motivations that got activated in a particular way whether it was based off a truth or my assumptions we got activated and our dance started to spin in a way that's actually not aligned.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: But here's the cool thing when we use the gospel, we can align our hearts and allow him to take care of our needs.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: And so, for me, I want peace and harmony.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: I want to know that my presence matters, and when I let myself know, guess what, with Christ, I have all the peace that I need.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Maybe I won't always feel it here on earth, but I actually have it, and so I can rest in him.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: And so when I feel the tension around the room, I can reorient my heart to what actually is true, so that I can actually enter in a conversation with my husband, letting him know like, hey, I'm starting to feel some tension and I actually want to leave.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: So that's what my whole body is telling me to is is this actually what's going on, or am I misreading the situation?
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: And so that enables him to not be activated of me actually leaving, because I'm engaging in the situation, and it gives him the option to respond, hopefully in a healthy way like, oh no, I was just kind of getting excited, thanks for sharing, I didn't, I didn't, I don't want you to check out, I don't want you to like leave, because that will definitely affect me.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: So no, we're totally fine.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: And so then I can make the decision to believe and trust that or not.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: So we all have these options and choices.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: But the Enneagram gives us that clarity of myself.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: But it also enables me to at least know a little bit about him, like, oh right, he fears abandonment.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: So my natural reaction of disassociating and disengaging is only going to stir up him.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: And so it allows us to meet each other and work together.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Now, if you don't know your husband, your spouse, your coworker, your child's type, you can still use it, because at least you know that you're getting activated based off of your core motivations, and that is then moving into those behaviors.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: And that's when you can assess have I done this in a healthy, average or unhealthy way?
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Because that's going to dramatically affect the next person, no matter what Enneagram type they are.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: And so, with our kids, if you don't know their type, you can still at least assess what's going on internally, so that you can show up more self-regulated and enter into that relationship from a whole different perspective.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: So it really is worth the investment in time.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: I just want to tell our listeners to like your book is just phenomenal.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: There's just so much information and I have adult children and I am already familiar with the Enneagram.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: But the way that your book has it laid out relating to parenting styles and perspectives, I think that I really want to put this into practice, even with my adult children.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Right, it's never too late to try to make things better.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, my mom is 81 years old and she doesn't know the Enneagram really that well.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: She kind of knows about her type a little bit and she kind of knows my dad, but you know they're 81.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: That's kind of hard to learn a whole new thing.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: But if she were to pick up this book and read about my personality and ask me curious questions and try to engage with me on my heart level, man, that would just mean the world to me.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: And I'm almost 50.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: And so my 81 year old mom could really bring a whole new level to our own relationship.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: So it's never too old to use this tool.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Well, the onus is on us to get to work and learn more.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Where can audiences go to find more about your work?
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so everything's at your Enneagram coachcom.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: We've got a podcast, your Enneagram coach.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: The podcast, the YouTube channel I mentioned earlier, and you know our social media is your Enneagram coach.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: There's lots of really great free stuff out there and then we train coaches.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: So if people want to actually work with a coach, that to nuance their situations and what they're going through, man, that is the way to go, and so all of that, like I said, is at your Enneagram coachcom.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: If you're looking for just the book, you can go to Enneagram for momscom.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: We've got different retailers there that you can choose from and some free goodies for you to access.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: So that is another place to get the book.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: And even dads Even though it says Enneagram for Moms, all people can use it.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, amazing, all right, well, we will make sure we include all of those links in our show notes.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Beth, before we go, I want to ask you some of our favorite Bible study tool questions.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what Bible is your go-to Bible and what translation is it?
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if it has a specific name.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: I don't really pay attention to that, but the ESV is the one that we usually use.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's the one we use.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Awesome, okay, that's a great translation.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Do you have any favorite journaling supplies or anything that you like to use to enhance your Bible study?
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: experience.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, I use.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what are they?
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Flexion, I think, is what they're called.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: But there are these pens that have all different colors but it has an eraser on it.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Love, it is literally life changing and I yep, yeah, yeah, I have them all.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, did you know?
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: They come in two different types of colors.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Now Like a bold color pack and then a different one.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: Ooh, I got to look into that.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's my favorite because I always I was using pencils and one that can smudge and and then over time it fades, and I just wanted color and I make mistakes.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: In fact, I give them as gifts now.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Like if I have somebody and I don't know what to get, but I know they like to do and they write so well too.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, amazing, okay.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Lastly, what is your favorite app or website for Bible study tools?
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just use YouVersion so that you know, to me has just always been a tried and true.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Just, I don't use it a lot, you know.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: I just kind of use paper a lot more.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: But if I, you know, need a quick, you know reference, that's the one I'm going to go to.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, awesome.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: And Coffee and Bible Time has a devotional or a couple devotionals on there now.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys do too.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, awesome, all right.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Well, beth, thank you so much for joining us today and just sharing these invaluable insights into how the Enneagram can help us have a more positive impact on our parenting and family dynamics.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Absolutely Thank you for having me.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: You are welcome and for our listeners, I really encourage you to get a copy of Beth's book, the Enneagram for Moms.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: We will have the link in the show notes.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: We love you all.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: We appreciate you listening.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Have a blessed day.