Latest / Pod Save America / "Fighting Back Post-Roe."

Transcript

"Fighting Back Post-Roe." · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: I'm Erin Ryan.
• 0:24
  Speaker 4: Hey, Erin.
• 0:25
  Speaker 5: Hi.
• 0:25
  Speaker 4: I'm Tommy Vitor. I'm back from vacations.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: And then Aaron's with us.
• 0:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm here.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: The host of Hysteria.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I'm here.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Wish it could be under better circumstances.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Is it ever under good circumstances?
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: No, it's not.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: I think, does good.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Now you get next piece of good news. You're coming on.
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, you and I got to host when they
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: were sick. That was a good time.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Oh, that was fun. That was really, thank you for
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: getting sick.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: You and I hosted together when I had COVID.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was fun too.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Not together, but virtually.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Together separately. But yeah, no, it's never great. I remember
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: the Kavanaugh hearings.
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: Were going on.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you and Dan and I did the Kavanaugh hearings together.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: That was another one.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we've had fun on the road.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: We had a good time in Wisconsin. That was early
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: on in our time together.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: That was. Remember when we ate that pile of fried
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: foods in San Francisco? Yeah.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I remember that episode was about Rex Tillerson joining the resistance.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: Rex Tillerson.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Fired on the toilet.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: What a name.
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: On today's show, the Supreme Court's radical right-wing majority strikes
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: down the constitutional right to an abortion in America. The
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: fight to protect reproductive rights moves to the states. And
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: the founder of Whole Woman's Health, Amy Hagstrom Miller, will
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: talk about how her organization intends to provide abortion care
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: in a post-Roe America. But first, a few housekeeping notes.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Crooked Media's editor-in-chief and host of Rubicon, Brian Boitler, is
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: back with a new podcast, Positively Dreadful, that takes listeners
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: below the headlines of the stories stirring anxiety in today's
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: news landscape. In the first episode, Brian is joined by U.S.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Representative Jamie Raskin to talk about how personal loss and
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: the insurrection changed him and how we can still balance
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: realism with hope today.
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: Very well-timed.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Very well-timed. Emotional and This is a great series for Brian.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: A great title for Brian, Positively Dreadful. It fits. You
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: should go listen to it.
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: You should.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: And the first episode is fantastic. You can listen on Apple, Spotify,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: or wherever. Also, on Strict Scrutiny this week, Leah, Melissa,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: and Kate continue their analysis on last week's Dobbs decision. Plus,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: they break down the consequential opinions getting overlooked as we
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: speed toward the end of June. Listen to new episodes
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: of Strict Scrutiny wherever you get your podcasts.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Let's get to the awful news. On Friday, the Supreme
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Court overturned Roe v. Wade, ending the constitutional right to
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: an abortion and jeopardizing the health and lives of millions.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Justice Sam Alito wrote the 6-3 decision, which was mostly
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: unchanged from the leaked draft that we saw in May,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: ruling that, quote, it is time to heed the Constitution
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and return the issue of abortion to the people's elected representatives.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: The three liberal justices' dissent called it, quote, a catastrophic
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: decision that, quote, undermines the legitimacy of the court consigns
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: women to second-class citizenship, and means that young women will
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: come of age with fewer rights than their mothers and
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: grandmothers had. Lots to talk about. Let's start with the
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: decision itself. Erin, as someone who has been warning about
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: this for years now, what was your reaction to the ruling?
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: You know, I was actually kind of numb. I think
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: that the soft launch that they did of the leaked
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: opinion kind of took off some of the sting. I
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: knew it was coming. It was really dismaying that it
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: was pretty much exactly what was leaked. Which was crazy,
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: like objectively insane. But I also thought, you know, after
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: I went and ate a donut slowly and methodically, I
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: thought about all the people that I'm disappointed in. Like
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: Sam Alito has always been nuts. You know, all of those.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: Clarence Thomas has always been nuts. the three Trump-appointed justices
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: were appointed due to being nuts. And so I didn't
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: really expect anything from them. But the thing that I
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: felt was very taken advantage of as a young woman
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: who has been outspoken in support of Democrats and Democratic candidates,
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: I felt very much like every election cycle there is
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: this urgency in getting us to show up and vote
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: and mobilize and phone bank and, you know, put cute
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: stickers on our tote bags and all that. And, you know,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: and for the most part in the last few elections,
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: young women have. And then once Democrats have control of,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: you know, the Senate, the House and the White House,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: our objectives are moved down to the very bottom of
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: the list. You know, the abortion thing should have been
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: codified into law under President Biden. The fact that it
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: wasn't is ridiculous. The fact that we have enough Democrats
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: who care more about the filibuster than they do about
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: female bodily autonomy or women's bodily autonomy or abortion rights
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: is egregious. And every day or every, every email I
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: got that day that was like, you gotta keep me
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: in the Senate. Can you chip in $ 15? It was like,
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: fuck you. I fucked you to every single email that
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: I got harder and harder throughout the day. And I
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: couldn't even look at my inbox by the end of
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: the day. I felt, um, like I expected this to happen,
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: but I didn't expect Democrats to fail as hard as
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: they did.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Can I ask, because my rage is towards specifically Joe
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, because I feel like we had,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: if we had two more Democratic senators who were anti-filibuster
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: and pro-choice, basically we need 50 Democratic senators who are
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: anti-filibuster and pro-choice. We have 50 who are pro-choice. We
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: have 50 who were, we have 48 who were anti-filibuster
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: on the Voting Rights Act. We haven't canvassed the rest
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: of them on getting rid of the filibuster to codify Roe,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: though someone should. Then we would have, then every Democrat,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: then we'd have every Democrat in the House or a
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: majority of Democrats in the House and Joe Biden would
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: have signed it into law and we would have it.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: So I feel like my specific rage is directed towards
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: those two, but I don't know if, like, could, what
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: could other Democrats do you think elected Democrats have done,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: should have done?
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, that's a really loaded question. And it
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: goes back to Monday morning quarterbacking several Mondays ago. You know,
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: how were campaigns run in 2020? You know, what seats
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: did we take for granted as being wins? Like Susan
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: Collins' seat. When she was up for reelection, it was like, oh, yeah,
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: we're going to win Susan Collins' seat. All this money
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: poured into it. And, you know, she won bigly. There's
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: a bunch of ways that I feel like 2020 was
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: mismanaged and didn't go as well for Democrats as it
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: should have gone. So, I mean, yeah, you play with
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: the team you have and the team we have has
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: like two real stinkers on it.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Real stinkers.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: But also, you know, I wish that we would have
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: done a better job in the draft. That's a sports.
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: I like that. Yeah.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: I wish we would have drafted better.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: That's all.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: I wish we had a better draft, a better bench.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: I wish that we had planned better. for the fact
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: that this is something that they've been gunning for for
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: 40 years, and this is something that was eventually going
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: to happen.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they played the long game.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: So the dissenting justices also wrote that, quote, no one
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: should be confident that this majority is done with its work,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: and warned that additional constitutional rights are under threat, such
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: as the right to contraception, same-sex marriage, even same-sex intercourse. Lovett,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: what's their reasoning there?
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Intercourse, John.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Same-sex sex is a weird thing to say, so I
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: couldn't know what else to say there.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: So there have already a set of, I have some
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: options for you. There's already been a set of the
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: same kind of people that told everyone not to worry
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: about Roe or are hard at work telling people not
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: to worry about contraception, not to worry about marriage equality,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: not to worry about Lawrence. And they point to the
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: majority ruling itself, which says the exercise of the rights
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: at issue in Griswold et cetera, et cetera, does not
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: destroy a potential life, but an abortion has that effect.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: And then they go on to say, nothing in this
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: do not concern abortion. But then Clarence Thomas, who doesn't.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: Give a shit. Wait a minute, wait a minute, me.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Clarence Thomas, who is just, because he's the most radical,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: is five years ahead of them, says the court's abortion
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: cases are unique and no party has asked us to
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: decide whether our entire 14th amendment jurisprudence must be preserved
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: or revised. Thus, I agree that nothing in the court's
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents, etc.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: But he then says explicitly, in future cases, we should
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: reconsider Griswold, Lawrence, or Bergefeld, because any substantive due process
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: decision is demonstrably erroneous. They have a duty to correct
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: the error established in those precedents. So what he is
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: saying is that the overruling of Roe cast doubt on
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: a host of freedoms about how we live, how we
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: form families, who we sleep with, who we love, how
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: we raise our children. And I've seen a lot of
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: coverage of that has focused that on marriage equality or
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: referred to it in an anodyne way as gay rights
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: in the same way that there were trigger laws on
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: the books waiting for this moment. Currently, in more than
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: a dozen states, there are laws on the books that
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: ban gay sex, that ban sodomy, which actually goes on
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: to include a lot of what you people do. That
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: doesn't reproduce, is all I'll say.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: Non-reproductive.
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: Intercourse. How about that? Hands up? Sure. I don't know
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: how specific it gets. What are we talking about?
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: If hand stuff starts.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Hand stuff.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: Somebody should pose this very question.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: Listen, it's strict scrutiny for the legal debates. This is
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: what you get here.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: This is what you get here is hand stuff.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: According to the Republican Party, there's only one thing you
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: can do with your hand, and.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: It's pull a trigger.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, man.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: I started this. I apologize.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: But the point is, it is true that many of
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: these laws target straight people. They just broadly target what
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: they're calling, what they used to call sodomy.
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: But it would be used to target gay people.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: The Republicans are already getting more and more aggressive in
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: their anti-gay, anti-trans rhetoric. We will absolutely be back in
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: the days where cops and right-wing politicians would basically threaten
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: and harass and arrest gay people. It will happen again.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: That is where they want us to go. Remind everybody
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: that the Stonewall riots happened because cops were harassing gay
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: people for the sin of gathering in public. And it
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: was the harassment by cops that led famously to a
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: very hot white twink. To throwing the first brick at Stonewall.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: I'm glad to know that he was hot.
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: That's the history.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: I feel like that's a reference. Like a movie or something?
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: What are you talking about?
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was not thrown. Well, according to... It was
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: a hot white twink. There was no hot white twink.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: It was a made up character.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: Like Jesus. Oh, right.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Jesus was not a hot white twink.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I'm bringing this back here now.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: What do we got here?
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Marsha P.
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: Johnson.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: So we should be... Your point is.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: I was like, am I... have I lost my mind?
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: No.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: Marsha P. Johnson was like a formidable black drag queen.
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Right on. Movie version.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: The point is.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: So your point is.
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: Like the passion of the Christ.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: They're coming. They're coming for these rights. And anyone who
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: says otherwise is not paying attention. Yeah.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: I thought the dissenter, the dissent was very powerful. I
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: wish I could read it. You know, they also mentioned
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: that the argument from Alito and the majority there is like, well,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: we don't want the court to be deciding these issues.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Let's send it to the states. But the dissenters also said, look,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: the ruling is now going to force the court to
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: weigh in on issues like whether states must allow exceptions
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: for women's life and health, on whether they must allow
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: IVF or care for miscarriages, and whether states could stop
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: women from traveling out of state or receiving abortion medication
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: by mail. So this whole thing where they're like, oh, yeah,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: we've settled on this issue now. Keep it out of
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: the courts. Bring it back to the states. That's not
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the case at all.
• 12:10
  Speaker 6: Here's Aaron, your version of like being mad at Democrats
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: the day the ruling came out. My version was being
• 12:15
  Speaker 6: really mad at the D.C. civility police because they expect
• 12:18
  Speaker 6: us to believe that these judges are nonpartisan, that they're
• 12:21
  Speaker 6: calling balls and strikes, that their legitimacy is based on
• 12:25
  Speaker 6: our agreeing to these terms that they put forward. When
• 12:27
  Speaker 6: these people are liars, they lie at confirmation hearings. One
• 12:30
  Speaker 6: of the seats was stolen by Mitch McConnell and they
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: release opinions that are wholly inconsistent legally with each other.
• 12:38
  Speaker 6: And they treat originalism as this tactic they use just
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: to cherry pick laws that make the right wing happy.
• 12:44
  Speaker 6: And the only thing protecting this chorus of people and
• 12:46
  Speaker 6: their bullshit is the people in D.C. who dine at
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: Cafe Milano and expect us to believe this little fiction,
• 12:53
  Speaker 6: this little tale they tell each other.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it seemed to me like Alito's reasoning that, oh, well,
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: women can simply vote. You know, like, look, if you want,
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: it was such, and it also was like, it was
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: like a fucked up, Nathan for you sketch, you know,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: where it's like, well, what we want is for people
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: to be able to make decisions about what happens in
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: their bodies. And then it's just like way overly complicated
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: and cruel and evil rather than like funny and cool.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they want women to vote in the gerrymandered districts
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: that they allow. So they've also I did think to
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: your point, Tommy, to the one notable line from the
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: dissent is when they they argue that, quote, The majority
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: overruled Roe and Casey for one and only one reason,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: because it has always despised them. And now it has
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: the votes to discard them. And the only thing that
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: changed is the composition of this court.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: I thought that that was a pretty big sign that
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: the liberal justices are basically saying this court is fucking politicized.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: So all the institutionalists, all the civility police, everyone who's
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: like worried about, you know, the institution of the court.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Here you have three justices on the Supreme Court that
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: are basically like this is an entirely politicized decision.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: In a joint statement, which is rare.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Right. The court's decision had immediate consequences for reproductive health
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: care in states all across the country. Tommy, what do
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: we know about those consequences? Which states have been most affected?
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: What's happening in some of those states?
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: The short answer is it's kind of like legal chaos
• 14:18
  Speaker 6: out there. I mean, there's all kinds of laws taking
• 14:20
  Speaker 6: effect at different times in different states, coupled by a
• 14:23
  Speaker 6: race to the bottom from Republican legislators or lawmakers. to
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: restrict abortion rights even further. And so, you know, the
• 14:30
  Speaker 6: immediate impact was in the 13 states that have trigger
• 14:33
  Speaker 6: bans in place. Immediate means different things in different places
• 14:35
  Speaker 6: like Kentucky, Louisiana, South Dakota. I think those bans go
• 14:38
  Speaker 6: into immediate effect. Other states require certification from somebody like
• 14:42
  Speaker 6: an attorney general. Some states have like a 30-day delay,
• 14:46
  Speaker 6: but I think they're trying to speed that up. A
• 14:47
  Speaker 6: bunch more states, Iowa, Indiana, Georgia, others will likely ban
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: abortion in the near future. A bunch of states have
• 14:55
  Speaker 6: pre-Roe laws on the, like West Virginia, I think is
• 14:57
  Speaker 6: a law from 1800 banning abortion that will now, I guess,
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: have to be applied in some way. Florida has passed
• 15:04
  Speaker 6: a 15 week abortion ban. Republicans are calling on Ron
• 15:07
  Speaker 6: DeSantis to come back to do a special session to
• 15:09
  Speaker 6: pass a six week ban. So it's a disaster out there.
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: And like, you know, we try to follow these events
• 15:15
  Speaker 6: and laws for a living and it's incredibly complicated and
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: hard to keep a handle on. I can't imagine being
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: a woman in an incredibly dire situation trying to get healthcare,
• 15:26
  Speaker 6: trying to get an abortion and trying to figure out
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: where to go. The flip side, the only good news
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: is that 16 states and I think the District of
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: Columbia have passed laws codifying the right to an abortion.
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: California passed a law today that will then create a
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: referendum that we can vote on to create a constitutional
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: amendment enshrining the right. But it's very bad in an
• 15:47
  Speaker 6: immediate impact.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Aaron, what are some of the challenges facing states where
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: abortion is still legal?
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: Well, Tommy mentioned California. And just this year, I think
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: there's been more than 10,000 extra people coming from different
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: states in the country to try to get abortion care
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: here because it's more difficult where they came from. Texas,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: a lot of people are coming from Texas. People who
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: live in California who need abortion care are going to
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: face longer times. They're going to have a more difficult
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: time accessing like a later term abortion. But, you know,
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: it's It's basically the number of providers is not like
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: magically increasing in these places that now are going to
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: see an influx of people coming to receive abortion care.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: And so that's a big issue. I did want to
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: point out something. Do you guys remember back in early
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: COVID when California, Washington, and Oregon were like, we are
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: the West? Yeah. Yeah. They're doing it again with abortion stuff.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: So I believe that it's not going to be as
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: chaotic now. So it has been a little bit chaotic
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: with people from Texas and people from other states trying
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: to come to California, for example. But it seems now
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: that governors Inslee Brown and Newsom are going to work
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: together to try to coordinate and make it a place
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: where people can come and get abortions on the West Coast.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I do think we're going to get an EPA ruling
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: in the next day or two, probably. And whatever they do, similarly,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: the question about how to protect the environment is going
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: to fall to the states. And as the federal government
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: abandons its basic responsibilities to protect people, protect their rights,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: it's going to be up to democratic governments, to governors
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: to work together and represent the majority. They represent the
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: majority of this country. They represent the majority of our GDP.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: They represent the majority of the people to figure out
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: new legal regimes to protect people in a coordinated way.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, you talk about legal chaos also in
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: these places where abortion has trigger laws. It's causing confusion
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: among patients. So like Louisiana had a trigger law that
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: was supposed to go in the books, but it has
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: been paused because a suit was filed, I believe, by
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: the Center for Reproductive Rights. And they basically said, you
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: have to wait. Abortion care needs to resume in Louisiana.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: I think in Idaho, they're doing the same thing. Utah,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: they're doing the same thing. It's become a total nightmare,
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: like patchwork quilt of state constitutional clauses and laws that
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: are archaic that might be now outdated and and went
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: do these things expire and it's it is such a
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: morass i don't envy people trying to wade through all
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: of it no.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah and i think that and the dissent made that
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: point too that um Just because the court averts its
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: eyes from the suffering that will follow doesn't mean the
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: suffering does not exist right now.
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: Even John Roberts tried to make this point, which is
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: there was a narrower path they could have taken. They
• 18:44
  Speaker 6: leave up the 15 week ban and not throw the
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: country into chaos. He's, of course, the chief justice in
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: name only at this point. He couldn't get anyone to
• 18:51
  Speaker 6: follow his path forward.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: But yeah.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sam Alito took a shot at him, too, in
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: his opinion.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: What an asshole.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: He is such an asshole.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: What a vicious prick.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Just absolute dick.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: All right. Let's talk about where we go from here.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: And maybe we can break this into short term, medium term,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: long term solutions. Erin, in the short term, what can
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: President Biden and the federal government do without Congress? And
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: do we think anything can get done with Congress?
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: That's a good question. I think that things are more
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: likely to get done with Congress now. When it comes
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: to codifying Roe, then it was three months ago before
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: we saw this lunatic draft. I still don't think it's
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: going to happen. And I hate the notion that I
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: just need to wait for one more election for this
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: to actually get pulled off because I feel like I've
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: been waiting for one more election for several election cycles.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: And it's getting to be really tiresome. The president can
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: urge the FDA to make medication abortion available to people
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: who need it. So like telemedicine, it's a safer medicine
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: than aspirin, for example. It's a very safe thing. You
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: can be prescribed it over remotely in a lot of places.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: There are some states that have laws against it, but
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: the Biden administration is trying to make sure that people
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: are able to access medication abortion to the extent that
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: they can. Now, here's the thing about medication abortion, though.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: It's something that is taken privately, and a lot of
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: people who need an abortion prefer it because you get
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: to just take it in your house, handle yourself from there.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: But it doesn't always 100% work. So there is a
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: possibility that you'd have to go in for follow-up care
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: And it's not clear, you know, what states are allowed
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: to do. So in some cases it could provide very rare. Again,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: it's a super safe, super safe medicine. But it's, you know,
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: in some cases people might need follow up care. And
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: that's a little bit murkier when it comes to the law.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: So right now the president is just doing like investigating
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: what he can do, which I'm a little disappointed in.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: I kind of wish he was coming out a little
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: bit more strongly about this. One thing that I thought
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: was interesting, Kamala Harris had an interview today on CNN
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: And she mentioned Build Back Better, some provisions from Build
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: Back Better that won't unfuck what has been fucked, but
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: will make life easier for parents. Like right now, Democrats
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: should strike on paid leave. Paid leave. OK, Republicans, let's
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: call your bluff. Like you want to make it so
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: that people who get pregnant must go through the process
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: of pregnancy and birth. Why not make life easier for parents?
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: You just want to force them to have birth, but
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: you're not going to do anything for them.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. It is one of the
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: most outrageous parts of the debate where you see these
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: now that they've banned this fundamental human right. Will Republicans
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: finally step up and help people to make having a
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: child easier? As if for the last four decades, if
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: they really gave a shit about preventing about about helping
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: people who had unwanted pregnancies, have a better chance to
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: have a better life for that child. They couldn't have
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: done that this whole fucking time. You have to wait
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: for there to be a gun at people's heads to
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: potentially provide child care. It is so ludicrous. It is
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: so disgusting. And it is so exposing of how not
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: true anything that they're saying are. Like, if they cared
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: about the unborn at all, they're not going to do
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: it now. They wouldn't do it then. It is just
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: not real.
• 22:20
  Speaker 6: This is what Peggy Noonan was trying to peddle on
• 22:22
  Speaker 6: Meet the Press over the weekend, which rightly was just mocked.
• 22:26
  Speaker 6: It's like, okay, you worked for Reagan who gutted the
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: social safety net. You cannot come out and say these
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: things with any credibility.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: Well, and then let's talk about the EPA also. Environmental
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: pollutants are so harmful to pregnant people and children. There
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: have been poisonings or chemicals that have been in the
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: environment that affect people like generations forward. It's not just like, oh,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: my mom was by some pesticides and so I was
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: born with a birth defect. It's like her grandchildren were born. Like,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: it's so crazy to me that you would be about
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: protecting the unborn, but actually not protecting the unborn at all.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: It's not about saving them from any sort of environmental
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: factor that could make their lives worse. It's not about
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: giving them a chance to bond with their parent after
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: they're born. It's not about anything but forcing people who
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: can get pregnant, mostly women, back into this second-class citizen status.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: And like, it I don't know that I've fully absorbed
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: what that means, that like I am now, you know,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: there are certain states in this country where there are
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: no exceptions to rape or incest. If I were, you know,
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: in Texas visiting and I got raped and I got pregnant,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: I would be obligated to have that person's, that is insane.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: That is insane. And that is insane that Alito's smug
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: fucking face is, is able to support this. I mean,
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: go vote. Yeah.
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: Well, the daily did a series of interviews today with
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: abortion care providers about what that first day after the
• 23:59
  Speaker 6: ruling was like. And one woman recounted a conversation she
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: had with a woman whose 14 year old granddaughter was
• 24:06
  Speaker 6: seeking an abortion care after a sexual assault. And she
• 24:10
  Speaker 6: basically had to tell this woman to find a way
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: to travel out of state. I mean, it's a, it's a,
• 24:13
  Speaker 6: it's literal nightmares.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So not though. So you mentioned the, uh, President Biden,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: the FDA, Garland announced this, I think, over the weekend
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: that they're going to try to make abortion medication more accessible.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: There's been talk that perhaps you can use the power
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: of the federal government to set up abortion clinics on
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: federal lands. That's a possibility. That obviously is not something
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: that happens immediately because it takes a long time to
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: do that and set them up. And of course, they
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: said that they're concerned that potentially those abortion providers could
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: be prosecuted if the federal lands are in states. This
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: goes back to the legal morass.
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: I do think, though, on all of these sort of
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: executive actions, I'm sure that the Biden White House has
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: all their DOJ lawyers and White House lawyers and everyone
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: looking at them. It's like, just try it.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Like, I know you're worried it's going to get struck down.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: But like and with this court. Yeah, probably. But like,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: try it. Try everything you can.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: That's what conservatives in the anti-abortion movement have been doing
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: for 40 years. They've been just throwing shit at the wall.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: When I first started covering reproductive rights 10 years ago,
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: there were always, you know, Ohio introduces a heartbeat bill.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: I remember that was nuts. They had a fetus testify.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: And then the fetus, like, turned away so they couldn't
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: really see the fetus during the testimony.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: It was bizarre.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: It was pretty funny.
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: I'll send you info about that offline. It was crazy
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: that a fetus testify. And at the time, a six-week
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: abortion ban was like, this is nuts. There was Mississippi
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: trying to establish legal personhood for zygotes. And at the time,
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: we were all like, this is nuts. This is even
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: too crazy for Mississippi. But now it's actually a real
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: possibility that personhood status could be granted to fertilized eggs.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: And it's just... The other side tries it and tries
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: it and tries it and tries it and tries it.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: And I agree with you that we should just start
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: trying shit.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, the reason Texas has a bounty law is
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: it's part of this great experimentation they've been doing for
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: years to test the boundaries, to test the fences, to
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: find their ways towards banning abortion.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: The other thing that is limiting the power of the
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: federal government here to act without Congress is the Hyde Amendment,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: which says that the federal government cannot spend money on
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: abortion care. So some proposals like, you know, can the
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Biden administration help pay for travel for women to go
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: out of state who need abortions? Like the Hyde Amendment
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: is preventing that. Now, memorably during the 2020 race, Biden
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: finally changed his position on that and said he's against
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: the Hyde Amendment. The issue there, again, is say Democrats
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: pass a budget, which you still only need 50 votes for.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you have Manchin's vote on repealing
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: the Hyde Amendment. So that's a problem. So all the
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: legislative solutions in this Congress, all the Congress solutions, go
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: back to, can you get Joe Manchin or Kyrsten Sinema
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: to be willing to eliminate the filibuster? And if you can't,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Democrats don't have a majority in the Senate, which is
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the problem.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: It doesn't do anything to talk about it. It's very frustrating.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: But does.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Kyrsten Sinema think that if the Republicans have a 51-seat
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: majority in the Senate and they have the trifecta, they
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: wouldn't eliminate the filibuster on day one to ban abortion nationwide?
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Does she really believe that they wouldn't do that?
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Of course they're going to do that.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: The other action in the short term that we're seeing
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: too is district attorneys in cities like Austin and places
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: like that who are pledging not to prosecute people who
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: get abortions. Some cities also like Austin are trying to
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: deter police from investigating abortion seekers or providers. So there
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: is some action in the short term on a local level.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: And it's also why these DA races are will be
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: fairly important also in November because who your DA is
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: is going to make a difference on prosecutions.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Are we going to I Am Spartacus this? Are we
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: going to all act real sketchy like we all might
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: be getting abortions and like just flood, flood, flood?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: So they can't fight? Yeah, if we're like.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: In a jurisdiction where, you know, you have an activist
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: DA who's going to charge people for seeking out abortion care,
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: are we going to– I think we.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: Should just all pretend– That's a good idea.
• 28:24
  Speaker 6: Like when BTS fans flooded the tip line for election fraud?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: Shit like that.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That's the path forward.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: Can we somehow get BTS in? I mean, they did
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: just take a break, but maybe we can get their
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: fans involved.
• 28:36
  Speaker 6: Olivia Rodrigo could maybe step in there, too. What is
• 28:38
  Speaker 6: this going to mean when you have some fucking crazy
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: DA or crazy sheriff that starts going after women who
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: had miscarriages?
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: That's already happened.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: It's already happened. It's already happened, and I think what
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: is going to happen is they're going to keep going after...
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Right now they're just going after the most marginalized people
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: that are the least empowered. And what is going to
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: happen is they're going to keep trying people that have
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: a little bit more power, a little bit more power,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: a little bit more power to normalize it. And eventually
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: they'll hit a live wire and there'll be a case
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: that breaks nationally, I think, that people will start to
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: draw lines.
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: Radicalize, yeah.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think it's already happening. It's Ohio, Texas, Oklahoma.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: It's awful.
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: It's awful.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Let's talk medium term. We have a midterm election in
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: November that will decide control of Congress, governorships, state houses,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: all kinds of state and local offices.
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: Love it.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: What's at stake here? And which states will this midterm
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: determine whether or not access to abortion is protected?
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: So first of all, Kansas has a vote on August
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: 2nd on a ballot measure that would reverse a ruling
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: that says abortion access is protected by the state constitution.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: And so that's coming fast. And that would be the
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: first vote in the country on the first vote on
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: the country on this. In Pennsylvania, it's Josh Shapiro versus Mastriano.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: The Pennsylvania legislature is Republican. They will outlaw abortion. The
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Republican wins. The Democrat wins. They will not. Wisconsin, Michigan,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: those races too. Democrats are bulwark against Republican anti-choice legislatures.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Organizers in Michigan are also trying to get an initiative
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: on the ballot because they have an old law on
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: the books that Whitmer and the Democratic officials in that
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: state are saying they're not going to enforce, but they're
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: trying to get a ballot measure passed so they can
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: amend the Constitution so that they don't have to deal
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: with this And if we lose that governorship, though, they will,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: of course, ban abortion there, too.
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: So those are pretty important elections. So AOC tweeted over
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: the weekend that Democratic leaders must give voters a specific
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: plan because honesty and details motivate. Our old boss, David Plouffe,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: tweeted something similar, saying that the message from the administration
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: needs to be clear, consistent, and true. Tell me, what
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: should Joe Biden and Democratic candidates be saying about abortion
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: between now and November, knowing that there is a lot
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of frustration out there.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, look, I agree with Puff.
• 30:55
  Speaker 6: AOC had several different Instagram stories, tweet storms that I
• 30:59
  Speaker 6: think were spot on on the specificity. Obviously, I think
• 31:02
  Speaker 6: elections matter, voting matters, but I totally get, Aaron, why
• 31:06
  Speaker 6: anyone would feel outraged if the first communication they got
• 31:08
  Speaker 6: from a elected official was, hey, give me 10 bucks. Hey,
• 31:12
  Speaker 6: this devastating thing happened. Give me 10 bucks. That's just
• 31:14
  Speaker 6: so fucking toned up.
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: It's crazy.
• 31:16
  Speaker 6: I do think Biden needs to say, I am committed
• 31:18
  Speaker 6: to passing the Women's Health Protection Act. This is the
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: law that would codify Roe into law and then say,
• 31:24
  Speaker 6: here's how we can do that, right? We need to
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: keep the House and we need to get 50 pro-choice
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: Democrats in the Senate who are willing to get rid
• 31:31
  Speaker 6: of the filibuster.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: We talked about this earlier. We don't have the whip count.
• 31:34
  Speaker 6: Hopefully the White House Legislative Affairs Office is working on
• 31:37
  Speaker 6: this right now and they can figure out what that
• 31:38
  Speaker 6: looks like. And then I also think, though, like, Biden
• 31:42
  Speaker 6: should talk about what can be done at the state level,
• 31:45
  Speaker 6: maybe travel to some of these places, go to Michigan,
• 31:47
  Speaker 6: help them get these 400,000 some odd signatures. I'm not
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: sure about the feasibility of like clinics on federal land,
• 31:53
  Speaker 6: but I agree with you, like get caught trying. But
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: I think the broader point is I would like to
• 31:58
  Speaker 6: hear Biden also press the case a little bit that
• 32:00
  Speaker 6: we heard in this dissent and call out the court's bullshit. Again,
• 32:05
  Speaker 6: they are liars. They lied about overturning Roe. They lied
• 32:08
  Speaker 6: about their respect for precedent. One of them is in
• 32:10
  Speaker 6: a stolen seat. We should not let the D.C. civility
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: police protect this narrative, you know, that this is it's bullshit.
• 32:18
  Speaker 6: And I think it's also a bigger point he needs
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: to make about the way Republicans are locking in minority
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: rule by refusing to deal with gerrymandering and allowing voter suppression.
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: He should lift up Clarence Thomas's insane dissent. I mean,
• 32:32
  Speaker 6: I think we should make clearly we should be talking
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: about abortion access and how critical it is and how
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: important health care for human beings, human rights. but also
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: I think make this coalition as wide as possible by
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: talking about these other laws that are at risk now.
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: And I think, well, that's not like, I do think,
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: you know, politicians should be specific about their plans. I
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: think we should also be specific about our criticisms. I agree,
• 32:57
  Speaker 6: like I get the frustration people feel about like the
• 32:59
  Speaker 6: just vote, but I do see like a lot of
• 33:02
  Speaker 6: sort of There's some folks that are painting with a
• 33:05
  Speaker 6: broad brush. There's like all Democrats suck at the circular
• 33:08
  Speaker 6: firing squad. And I think that we end up suppressing
• 33:10
  Speaker 6: our own voters. And I think if you want to
• 33:11
  Speaker 6: call it Nancy Pelosi for supporting Henry Cuellar in a
• 33:16
  Speaker 6: primary against a pro-choice candidate, that's totally reasonable. I've seen
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: a lot of people criticizing Obama for not codifying Roe
• 33:25
  Speaker 6: in 2009. I mean, look, there were 52 Democrats in
• 33:28
  Speaker 6: the Senate at the time. who supported abortion rights, maybe,
• 33:32
  Speaker 6: so that it wasn't going to pass without someone getting
• 33:34
  Speaker 6: rid of the filibuster. There were something like a quarter
• 33:36
  Speaker 6: of the House Democrats opposed to abortion rights at the time.
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: I'm not saying this to, like, defend Obama. I'm just saying, like, again,
• 33:44
  Speaker 6: this is sort of why elections matter. We have to
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: win in primaries. We have to make sure that the
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: Democrats in our caucus support abortion rights and that we
• 33:51
  Speaker 6: win these seats.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Against Republicans, too.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, I wanted to add real quick that I
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: think Biden might not be the messenger for some of this.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: But I think that it is really important for people
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: who need reproductive care, women, anybody who can get pregnant.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: I really hope that blue state women understand that this
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: affects them. You know, I've heard so much talk as
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: though this is happening to women and people who can
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: get pregnant in red states. And it is, and they're
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: getting the worst of it, for sure. The more marginalized
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: you are, the more difficult it's been always to get
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: reproductive care. But also, we all are going to be impacted.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: This isn't just like a horrible human rights violation that's
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: happening somewhere else, and we're all safe in California, New York,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: or Illinois, whatever. It's going to affect you. And like
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: we talked about with these other rulings, it's going to
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: affect everyone.
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: And Republicans are going to push for a federal abortion ban.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: They're already talking about it.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: And it doesn't really matter then where you live.
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: Unless you have a mayor or governor who's willing to
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: openly defy the federal government. And it doesn't matter where
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: you live. And I think that that's really important to
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: get messengers out there, maybe female Democrats who remember a
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: time before Roe and are willing to talk about it
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: and willing to talk about what that actually looks like,
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: even though back then there were states where it was legal.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: And again, though, like, To avoid this, to avoid the
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: national ban, like the only route to do this in
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: the system that we have is to elect a pro-choice majority,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: a real pro-choice majority. And, you know, Tommy, talking about
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: the White House, like legislative office has a whip count.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: They might. We should make it, you know, public, right?
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of Democrats running right now, again,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: for Senate. They're up in tough races. Ask them if
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: they're willing to get rid of the filibuster to pass legislation.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: to codify Roe into law.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: You're doing them a favor. It's a popular position.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Is it time for another whip count? They're going to
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: get asked. They're not going to be able to avoid
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: this question. Reporters are going to ask them, as they should.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: So they're all going to be on record. I mean,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: right now, we have, you know, John Fetterman is the
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: nominee in Pennsylvania. Tough state. Biden only won it by
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: a little bit. He's out there saying, yeah, if you
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: elect me Democratic senator, I will get rid of the
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: filibuster to codify Roe into law. That's one. That gets
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: rid of Sinema. In Wisconsin, we don't have a nominee yet,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: but all the leading potential nominees for the Senate race
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, Mandela Barnes, all of them, they've also said, yeah,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: I will get rid of the filibuster to codify Roe.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: That would get rid of Joe Manchin if we keep
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: the rest of the Senate and if we elected the House.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: But you do have to get, like, you don't have
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: to fall in love with politicians or fall out of
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: love with politicians. Just get them on the fucking record
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: of what they're going to do when you elect them
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: into the Senate. And if you have a pro-choice majority
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: that's also an anti-filibuster majority, you're going to codify Roe.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Will the Supreme Court then overturn the fucking national law
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: that codifies Roe, perhaps then we can figure out what
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: to do next. But like these are this is the process.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: And the other piece of this, I would say, too,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: is it's it's about making sure that the Democrats we
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: put up are Democrats that will help us get this done.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: But it's also about what we do between now and
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: November to make that case. I think that involves Democratic
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: leadership keeping us on this topic day after day, week
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: after week with hard vote after hard vote for Republicans
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: on contraception. on gay rights, on marriage equality, on access
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: to abortion, on access to abortion in case of rape
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: and incest, on action abortion for children who have been
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: abused by their family members. We need to get them
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: on the record over and over again. This should be
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: on everyone's mind as much as possible between now and November.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: And then that means nationally, we need to be getting
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Republicans on the record everywhere we can. Anyone up for Congress,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: anyone up for Senate, do you support a national ban?
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Some of them will say yes, some of them avoid
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: the question, but either answer is useful to us. And
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: we have to keep on this. And there's going to
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: be this pull about what Joe Biden is focused on.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: He has to talk about inflation. Obviously, he has to
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: talk about a bunch of different issues. But this is
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: now part of a broad attack on basic human freedom
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: in this country. And it is not necessarily... Joe Biden,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: he's the leader that we have. And he has to
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: take on this moment and understand that these are enormous
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: stakes for people. He is a candidate that was elected
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: for a country that was in a state of mourning
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: after a pandemic, I, in the past couple of days,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I don't think I've, it has felt like a country
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: in mourning. And he is, he is, he understands how
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: to speak to people's pain in moments like this. And
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: he has to, he has to do that. And he
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: has to make that central to his case and just
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: keep the country on this for the next couple of months.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: It's our only hope.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's, there's a lot of, will Republicans pay a
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: price for this? Because, you know, the polling shows that
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: most Americans support abortion. It's like, Republicans will pay a
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: price if we make them pay a price. Yeah.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Although Mike Pence kind of own gold that one. I
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: just to end on maybe our end this portion of
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: the conversation on a higher note is Pence. Like a
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: lot of Republicans are sort of been hanging back, not
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: really crowing about it, just doing it in there, maybe
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: like crazy channels. But Pence immediately came out and was like,
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: hell yeah, federal ban, federal ban. It's so funny to
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: watch that guy just step on a rake every time
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: he's got an opportunity to do something like, he could
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: have looked brave and cool during the January 6th hearings. Nope,
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: missed that opportunity. Did not look brave or cool. He
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: could have just said nothing and just kind of quietly
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: celebrated this victory and quietly voiced his insane views to
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: other people that share those views. but instead he made
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: them super public, and now Democrats... have rightfully seized on
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: them and been like.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: His top eight. Mark Short said about his comments. yeah,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: he said this because this is the man he's always been.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: He's always been for it. And he's like, yeah, no,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: we know, man. We know this is the guy you've
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: always been.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: Ask him about Mulan.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget the Mulan story.
• 39:49
  Speaker 6: Well, also, Trump is reportedly, you know, worried about the
• 39:53
  Speaker 6: political impact and thinks that some of the six-week bans
• 39:55
  Speaker 6: and other things that are being put in place in
• 39:57
  Speaker 6: states are crazy. I mean, of course, we learned this
• 39:59
  Speaker 6: because he's, like, saying it to people who then background
• 40:01
  Speaker 6: Maggie Haberman and ends up in Washington. Trump is directly
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: responsible for, for this ruling because he put in place
• 40:06
  Speaker 6: three Supreme court justices who led to this outcome. But yeah,
• 40:11
  Speaker 6: I mean, there is, there is some political hope that,
• 40:15
  Speaker 6: you know, this is going to pull some Republicans to
• 40:17
  Speaker 6: a place that is wildly unpopular. Like if Ron DeSantis
• 40:20
  Speaker 6: votes for a six week abortion ban, that is psychotic.
• 40:23
  Speaker 6: That is fucking crazy. And also I do think we
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: just need to remind these Republicans like, Hey, remember when
• 40:28
  Speaker 6: you guys used to say you didn't want activist judges
• 40:31
  Speaker 6: or like legislating from the bench?
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: Remember when that was your thing?
• 40:34
  Speaker 6: Now you've got Clarence Thomas coming this close to trying
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: to break up his own marriage. He's advocating for legal
• 40:41
  Speaker 6: theories that would.
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: Ban interracial marriage.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't mention loving.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: No, no, he didn't. He left that one.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Off the list.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: I bet Jenny snuck onto his computer and just deleted
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: that in his draft files.
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: They never talk about it. Yeah, they never talk about it.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, just to end on the court, Erin, the
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: recent rulings on abortion, guns, probably climate, a bunch of
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: other issues have rightfully renewed calls for fundamental reform, whether
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: it's expanding the court or instituting term limits for justices
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: or limiting the court's jurisdiction. What's it going to take
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: to get any of these reforms done?
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, I think that a lot of people
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: will have to be hurting all at exactly the same
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: time and be reminded over and over again that the
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: reason that they are hurting is a direct result of
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: things that the Supreme Court did. You know, if, for example,
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: if Obergefell was overturned, and not that I want that
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: to happen in any way, shape, or form, but the
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: chaos of everybody having to figure out alternative legal arrangements
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: that mimic a marriage but aren't a marriage when they
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: have children, you know, like, and, you know, anything that
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: dials back women's rights this far, I think also will
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: put us in a position where you know, six, seven
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: months from now, there's going to be a lot of
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: people that are in a really, really bad spot. And it's,
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I hate that it's just like widespread pain.
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: Women are going to die. People are going to die.
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: There's going to be increased mortality rates.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: People are going to die who don't, who aren't even
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: seeking elective abortions.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: You know, like it's, it's ectopic pregnancy care. It's miscarriage care. It's,
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: it's all kinds of reproductive care. And yeah, I think
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: maybe when, I don't know, I, that's, it's a really cynical, sad, conclusion,
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: but it's like everything that people have been warned about
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: for years and years by advocates, by activists, by people
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: working on the ground when it comes to reproductive rights,
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: reproductive justice, all of the Cassandra-ing was just ignored for
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: so long.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: The thing I would say is what I hope people
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: take away from what we're seeing right now is there's
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: no point at which the Republicans are going to wake up.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: There's no bottom for them. There's no limit for them.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: We have to take the power back from them. And
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I think in terms of reforming the court, they set
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: about doing this for 40 years. We have to start
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: now talking about the importance of reforming and changing a
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court to fit a modern, pluralistic, diverse America.
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: Democracy.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: So if this court continues to hand down more and
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: more aggressive, abusive, despicable rulings, we are getting closer and
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: closer to the political coalition we need to make those
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: changes or that the court feels threatened enough to understand
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: that those changes will come if they don't respect the
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: vast majority of this country that does not want to
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: be ruled.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: You know, Politico did a poll right after the decision
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: about the court. They asked people, would you be in
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: favor of expanding the number of justices on the court?
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: 45% approved, 38% disapproved. That's a plus seven there. And
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: these numbers can move fast, especially on process questions. These
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: aren't like issues like the economy and healthcare that people
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: have had, you know, strong opinions on forever. This is
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: as much as an inside game as it is an
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: outside game too. This is about pressuring elected Democrats to
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: start coming out in favor of court reform. We started
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: this podcast a couple of years ago. We started talking
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: about the filibuster and A small percentage of the Democratic
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: caucus was in favor of getting rid of the filibuster.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: And then five years later, it's everyone but Joe Manchin
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: and Kyrsten Sinema. And it moved really fast. And the
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: same thing could happen with court reform if we start
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: making that argument now.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: Go ahead.
• 44:37
  Speaker 6: We're in a Democratic doom loop. You know, we have
• 44:40
  Speaker 6: gerrymandered districts leading to right wing reactionary members of Congress
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: and state legislators and senators putting forward, you know, the
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: president who won without the popular vote. putting forward right-wing
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: judges who are reducing human rights and making it harder
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: to vote. I mean, this is a dire, dire place
• 45:00
  Speaker 6: to be at the moment. And I do think a
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: sense of urgency starting at the White House is going
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: to be really important when talking about the stakes here.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Pundit knows to go to a person who needs a
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: dog the most in a group of people. She does.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: Very sweet. I wanted to add that it has been Um,
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: it's been really revealing how few people know very much
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: about the Supreme court. Cause it's very opaque and weird.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: It's a super weird, super weird institution. And there's so
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: many little intricacies to know about the way that things run,
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: but watching a, an entire generation, I would say there's
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: a lot of people under 40 who are learning. just
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: now that Supreme Court justices have like no binding code
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: of ethics. Like there's absolutely no checks on them. The
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: Supreme Court kind of sucks as it's set up right now.
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: And I think that's something that we, I say we,
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about voters who are, you know, 45 or
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: under so that everyone in here is included.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Especially Tommy.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Elder statesman Tommy Vittorio. I mean, honest grease. Tommy Vittorio.
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: Make the joke good if you're going to interrupt us.
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: Come on. Anyway, Erin.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: No, I was just going to say, you know, I
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: think a lot of Americans were not familiar with just
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: how stupid the Supreme Court is. And I think that
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: a more widespread knowledge of that will help institute common
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: sense reforms like term limits. A 10-year term limit, I think,
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: would make sense to a lot of people. Binding justices
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: to a code of ethics, 69% of people polled supported that. Nice.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: Only 15% opposed. binding justices to a code of ethics.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: So if you have, like, a Clarence Thomas, like, leaving
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: his laptop open so that Ginny can, like, take it.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Crazy Ginny.
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: Share email account.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: There she is again.
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: Right, exactly. ThomasFam at AOL.com or whatever.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: They definitely share an email address.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: 100%. Yeah.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: But I think that a code of ethics is something
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: that seems very simple. Every other job in the country
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: requires you to behave.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: The term limits that you just mentioned, that same poll,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: 62% strongly or somewhat support term limits for justices, only
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: 23% oppose. That's a pretty big margin.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: One other thing else I would add is I was
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: thinking about the hearings that we had, both the hearings
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: we've had in the past couple of years for Kavanaugh,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: for Gorsuch, and then for Katonji Brown-Jackson. And Republicans in
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: those hearings, they help articulate and enforce a ridiculous judicial philosophy,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: but nonetheless, when they've all aligned themselves around that that
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: gets them to their logical conclusion that they want. Because
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: in part, because we've been sort of living on these
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: rulings that have been so central to the kind of
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: liberal order that we all believe in, we've talked less
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: about what our undergirding political philosophy is as a movement
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: and more about the outcomes, right? We want to keep Roe.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: We like Lawrence. We like Obergefell. We're glad that they
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: ruled that way. But I don't hear Democrats or like
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Democratic even scholars kind of articulating a pushback against originalism
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: that defends the freedoms that have been enshrined by this
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: court through the 14th Amendment. Like, I just don't hear it.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: I don't hear them making a case for our worldview
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: outside of the outcomes. And I think we need to
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: start doing that and doing that more.
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: When we come back, we'll have Aaron's interview with Amy
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Hags from Miller of Whole Woman's Health.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: When the Supreme Court's decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: Health dropped on Friday morning, abortion facilities across the country
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: were forced to shut their doors immediately, leaving women who
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: had appointments scheduled that very day in a lurch. Now
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: in this new post-Roe era, abortion care providers are working
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: vigorously to fight for an America where everyone who needs
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: reproductive health care has access to safe and legal abortions
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: no matter where they live. One woman at the forefront
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: of these efforts is President and CEO of Whole Women's Health,
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: Amy Hagstrom Miller.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Amy, welcome.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: You are very welcome. It's nice to be here.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: So, Amy, can you walk us through what you were
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: doing when you found out officially that the Supreme Court
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: had taken away the constitutional right? to an abortion?
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I was actually with my family. You know, we've
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: kind of started this like, it's almost 10 o'clock on
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: a decision day kind of ritual, the last few decision days.
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: And Ironically, today actually is the sixth anniversary of our
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: win in the Supreme Court in Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstad.
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: And so I've come to sort of look at the
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: last couple of weeks of June as this time when
• 49:46
  Speaker 5: life changes. Used to be maybe for the better, now
• 49:50
  Speaker 5: it's for the worse. So we were all kind of,
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: you know, watching and gathered around, just sort of waiting.
• 49:57
  Speaker 5: And we did have patients on site in all of
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: our clinics. We have nine clinics in five different states.
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: kind of in two different Americas. So we have clinics
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: in Texas and Indiana, and then we have clinics in Minnesota, Maryland,
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: and Virginia. And so while half of those clinics were
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: worried about needing to cease operations, the other half are
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: expecting to see more patients and trying to get ready
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: for what that might look like. And so that day
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: was a little of both for us as we talked
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: to the staff.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: So what actions did you need to take immediately?
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: So when we got the Dobbs decision, uh, we had
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: already spoken with our council, um, before that. Um, and
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: if Roe was overturned completely, we knew, uh, we needed
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: to stop seeing patients for abortions in Texas because we predicted,
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: which was true, um, that Ken Paxton would start tweeting
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: right away and try to make the argument that, uh,
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: the abortion ban, um, was enforced that the trigger ban
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: and the criminal abortion ban and all the things, um,
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: were now at play in Texas, even though legally we
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: don't agree with his interpretation, we knew that the environment
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: was going to be hostile and we needed to make
• 51:17
  Speaker 5: sure to protect our staff and patients in the short
• 51:19
  Speaker 5: run and had been advised to stop doing abortions. So
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: we had to do that in all four sites. Um,
• 51:26
  Speaker 5: we had to turn patients away, um, Most of our
• 51:29
  Speaker 5: patients begged us to be put on a waiting list,
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: hoping that we might be able to get an injunction
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: or something in the interim. And then some folks, you know,
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: had us help them figure out how to travel outside
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: the state, which unfortunately we've been doing for almost 10
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: months now since SBA has been in effect in Texas.
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: We have built a program called the Wayfinder Program, and
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: we have been helping people find their way basically from
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: being denied an abortion in Texas to another state where
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: they could get help. And so that kind of kicked
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: in just in the present tense and, you know, real
• 52:04
  Speaker 5: life with patients right in front of us at that moment.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: The Wayfinder program. Can you go a little bit more
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: into detail about how that works?
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: Sure. So we started helping people find their way out
• 52:18
  Speaker 5: of Texas during the COVID EO. So like in 2020,
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: April of 2020, Governor Abbott issued an executive order basically
• 52:30
  Speaker 5: banning abortion and saying that abortion was not essential health
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: care and it used too much PPE, et cetera. And
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: so he used basically COVID, the pandemic as an excuse
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: to ban abortion. And that worked for about three weeks, actually,
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: until we challenged it and won. But in that three-week
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: time period, hundreds of people were denied abortion care services.
• 52:54
  Speaker 5: And so we started to help people migrate from Texas
• 52:57
  Speaker 5: to other places, to our clinics most specifically, because we
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: were able to just get them in as quickly as
• 53:03
  Speaker 5: possible and they didn't have to like fill out paperwork again,
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: et cetera. So that's when it started. And then we
• 53:11
  Speaker 5: kind of had to pick it up again when SB8
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: went into force in Texas last September, which basically denies
• 53:18
  Speaker 5: people abortions if they're over six weeks into the pregnancy,
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: which is about 80% of the people who come for abortion,
• 53:25
  Speaker 5: especially in Texas where there's a 24-hour waiting period and
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: all these barriers to even get an appointment for an
• 53:31
  Speaker 5: abortion in the first place. The vast majority of our
• 53:33
  Speaker 5: patients are over six weeks. And so initially we started
• 53:37
  Speaker 5: to refer them to the surrounding states which I think
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: is really poignant right now after the fall of Rome, right?
• 53:45
  Speaker 5: So we were like, go to Oklahoma, go to New Mexico,
• 53:48
  Speaker 5: go to Louisiana, they're closer. And within a week of
• 53:51
  Speaker 5: SBA passing, the surrounding states all had either four to
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: six week wait for an abortion. It was just like,
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: it crumbled the whole infrastructure. And I was getting phone
• 54:01
  Speaker 5: calls from people, my friends in the field in Florida
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: and New York and Michigan, all over the country who
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: were seeing Texas patients. And they had all these questions about,
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: you know, is this aiding and abetting? Can we help
• 54:15
  Speaker 5: people from Texas? Can we not? And I realized we
• 54:18
  Speaker 5: got to see these people. We got to figure out
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: a way to get them seen because we are experts
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: in Texas law. And we kind of know that Texas's
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: law doesn't extend beyond Texas's borders.
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: And so we don't want folks from Texas to be
• 54:31
  Speaker 5: discriminated against when they go and get an abortion in
• 54:33
  Speaker 5: another community. And so we used our abortion fund, the
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: Stigma Really Fund, to help people financially. And then we
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: had staff, and we still have those staff, helping with
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: all of the sort of logistics, which we think of
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: as part of the Wayfinder program. So we've got this
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: whole database of like what airlines fly from what airports
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: to what airports nonstop, which airplanes tend to cancel the least,
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: what the best time of day to fly is. We
• 55:03
  Speaker 5: had to build a whole database for folks who've never,
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: ever traveled out of the state, you know, so they
• 55:07
  Speaker 5: didn't know all the stuff that Many of us may
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: know already about how to fly, what you can carry on,
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: what you can't, what you need for ID, how early
• 55:14
  Speaker 5: to show up. So it's really a wraparound service. And
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: even if we pay for someone's hotel, folks that are
• 55:22
  Speaker 5: economically disadvantaged don't have credit cards and they can't check
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: into the hotel without presenting a card at the time
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: of check-in, which is nuts. And so we would book
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: folks' hotel and then we would end up needing to
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: meet them there to help them check in, try to
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: facilitate transportation from the airport to the clinic and to
• 55:41
  Speaker 5: the hotel. And then we also did a lot of
• 55:44
  Speaker 5: supportive folks who needed to drive. Almost 70% of the
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: patients we see in Texas are parenting already. They're navigating
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: multiple jobs in a pandemic, just like the rest of us.
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: And so childcare is really challenging. Getting time off work
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: was really challenging. So many people just like piled their
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: family into the car and drove all night to get
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: their abortion. And we had folks driving from South Texas
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: to Virginia, driving from Texas to Minnesota. Keep in mind,
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: these are like two, three day drives. Um, they would
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: get the abortion and their kids would be there with
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: them in the car. Um, and then they would just
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: turn around and drive right back so they could get
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: back to work. Um, these are the things we've been
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: doing with this program, trying to help people with gas
• 56:28
  Speaker 5: cards and food and hotels, and also just get them
• 56:32
  Speaker 5: an appointment. Um, as soon as possible, because that's really
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: their primary concern. Once they're turned away for an abortion,
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: they want to know where they can be seen the
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: soonest and how we can help them get there.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: So Whole Women's Health has also been assisting in providing
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: abortion pills by mail. Can you talk us through how
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: that works?
• 56:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So we've also in the same time period launched
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: our virtual care program. Thanks to the Biden administration, which
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: relaxed some of the restrictions, which were like, not evidence-based
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: restrictions in the first place around abortion pills. They're just
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: like political in nature in the first place. So it's
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: one of the bright spots, I guess, from the pandemic
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: is that people finally saw that medication abortion is very
• 57:18
  Speaker 5: safe and that pregnant folks can figure out how to
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: manage that with the support from providers like us. And
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: we were able to provide that for them via telemedicine.
• 57:30
  Speaker 5: And so we have a visit with the patient and
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: kind of go over how everything works, make sure they understand,
• 57:35
  Speaker 5: you know, have their questions answered, they feel supported. And
• 57:38
  Speaker 5: then our provider can call the prescription into an online
• 57:41
  Speaker 5: pharmacy and that pharmacy can mail it to the patient.
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: Now the patient needs to be in a state where
• 57:48
  Speaker 5: medication abortion by mail and telemedicine is allowed. So of
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: course that's not allowed in Texas or Louisiana or Mississippi or,
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: you know, Indiana, a lot of the places that really,
• 57:59
  Speaker 5: need this access, but it is allowed in many other states,
• 58:03
  Speaker 5: about 20. And so we have launched virtual abortion care
• 58:08
  Speaker 5: services in New Mexico and Minnesota and Illinois and Maryland
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: and Virginia. And we have people coming from those states
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: and also surrounding states. They need to be in the
• 58:22
  Speaker 5: state where telemedicine is allowed for the virtual visit, and
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: they need to receive the pills at an address. in
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: that state um and the doctor who's working with them
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: is obviously licensed in that state as well um but
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: it's advanced medicine in lots of areas you know access
• 58:40
  Speaker 5: to for folks who live in rural communities in lots
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: of different specialties and so it's perfectly applicable right for
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: for abortion and it's allowed us to help folks um
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: not only from Texas but from lots of other places
• 58:53
  Speaker 5: um We're even seeing people in Alexandria and Virginia Beach
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: and Richmond who have a clinic right there in their
• 58:59
  Speaker 5: community choose medication abortion by mail because it's convenient. It's
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: what they prefer. And so I'm glad to see us
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: able to advance something and know that this is going
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: to be a huge option for people in the years
• 59:13
  Speaker 5: and days to come.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: So Amy, over the last few days, I've seen a
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: lot of viral content on social media, outraged content about
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: the Dobbs decision. And I think a lot of it
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: is really well-intentioned, but it seems that some of it
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: isn't quite factually accurate. Have you seen anything being shared
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: widely on social media that while it might be well-intentioned
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: actually makes what you're trying to do harder? And is
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: there anything you want to kind of like correct?
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: That's a great question. I really appreciate being asked that question. Um,
• 59:47
  Speaker 5: You know, I see a lot of people getting frustrated
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: at folks who just now woke up or just now realized, right,
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: that this was at issue and people who are surprised.
• 59:58
  Speaker 5: I'll just say I don't find myself mad at those folks.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 5: Then I think our movement needs to be welcoming as
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 5: possible and just like let folks get mad when they
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: get mad and chime in to do something. And now
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 5: is better than never. And so I'm trying to just
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: have that approach of being welcoming to folks. I do
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 5: think people need to respect the expertise of the abortion
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: providers who are already providing and who are already trained.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: So one thing that's been irritating is, you know, providers
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 5: who never even cared about abortion before now saying, oh,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 5: I want to get trained to do abortions and I
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 5: want to travel. You know, I think we need to
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 5: be able to focus on a huge percent of the
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 5: abortion care workforce that's being left behind right now. There's
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 5: Countless clinics in the states where abortion is banned that
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: are staffed with incredibly talented and dedicated staff and physicians
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 5: who need support to relocate or need to figure out
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: how to move those clinics or be able to maintain
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 5: employment in this postural landscape. And so I know some
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 5: providers have been a little frustrated that, you know, all
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: of a sudden, you know, ER doc and You know,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 5: New York is like, oh, maybe I'll start doing abortions now.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: You know, and I think, you know, there's that kind
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 5: of feeling of like, hey, you know, we've been here
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 5: all the time and, you know, we need your support
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: to be able to continue to do this work. Same
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 5: with this sort of networks with abortion funds and networks
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: with independent clinics. Like we know how to get people
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 5: accurate information. We know how to provide practical support and
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 5: support for the actual abortions. we've sort of got a
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: lot of these systems built already about how to help
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: people who can't afford abortion or how to help people travel.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 5: And so I think, you know, just saying to the
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 5: folks who are right now offering, you know, their own
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: couches or to give people rides or to start new organizations,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: I think they need to just look to some of
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: the existing organizations and ask, Hey, how could I help?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 5: Like you have this expertise, where can I plug in,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: you know, give me some direction. I think those are
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 5: a couple of things I would just, you know, say,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: and I think it's important not to get mad at
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 5: folks for not, you know, for being naive or coming
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: with an honest, I would really like to help. I
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: would just caution people to move from sort of saviorism
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: or this kind of rescue ism to a place of
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 5: like allyship and, you know, trying to support the infrastructure
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: and the expertise that's already here.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: And on that note, what do you need right now
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: to keep your doors open? Like what is happening on
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: the ground to keep your doors open?
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: Great question. So we could use support for the Wayfinder program,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 5: which people can donate to if they go to Whole
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: Woman's Health Alliance. And whole woman is singular. People sometimes
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: mess that up. So it's wholewomanshealthalliance.org. Also, we are doing
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 5: our best to relocate some of our clinics. We're going
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: to have to cease operations at some point, probably in Texas.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 5: We announced a lawsuit today. It was actually just like
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 5: half an hour ago. So you guys are like the
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 5: first people I've talked to since we announced it. We're
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 5: challenging Paxton's interpretation of the criminal abortion ban in Texas.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: Our hope is to at least get 60 more days
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: before the trigger ban goes into effect where people in
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 5: Texas can get some care. But we need to basically
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 5: pack up the clinics and move elsewhere. And we could
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 5: use help for those kinds of purposes. We're looking at
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 5: New Mexico, looking at Illinois, we already have clinics in
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 5: Minnesota and Virginia and Maryland, but really, um, kind of
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 5: clinic in a box, right. And then like packing it
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 5: up into a pod and trying to reopen in a
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: state where we know, um, abortion will be supported and
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 5: where we can help the people who are going to
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 5: be displaced from other places. And so, um, that's part
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: of it. And just welcoming, you know, knowing that there'll
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: be clinics. If you live in a Haven state, um,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 5: there will be people traveling into your state who are
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: only there for abortion services. And so just trying to
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 5: welcome those folks, you know, help people who may be
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: coming from very different parts of the country with the resources,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 5: whether it's gas cards or, you know, the cafes that
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 5: are pro-choice and progressive and the hotels that are going
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 5: to be safe for them to stay in. And, you know,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: we've got, we need more info on those, those kinds
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 5: of things to add to our database so that we
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 5: can build good relationships that will be safe and supportive
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 5: places for our patients.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: And one more question before I let you go. And
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: this is something I've genuinely been wondering since Friday. It's
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: like a second tier concern, but what do you think
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: that the losers who spend all day harassing abortion patients
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: outside of your clinic are going to do now? Like
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: what are they going to do all day?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 5: You know, that's another great question. I was saying to
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: somebody the other day that I think for a bit,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 5: they're going to take this victory lap, you know, But
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 5: pretty soon after, there are going to be 50 states
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 5: worth of anti-abortion protesters that are focused on the remaining 24,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 5: 25 states. So I am concerned that the clinics that
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 5: are remaining open are going to have increased harassment. I'm
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 5: concerned that these folks won't be satisfied with this giant
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 5: win that they've just had and that they're going to
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: move next to further restricting, right? And they'll use it
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: they'll have a policy approach right through the legislature, but
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 5: I think they'll also be just crummy to people in
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: the streets. I'm concerned about people being followed and people
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 5: being harassed or threats being made, et cetera. And so
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 5: I think here again, it's so important for the majority
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 5: of people in this country who support access to safe abortion,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 5: like the vast majority, right? Over 70% need to just
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 5: let folks know that those folks don't represent them and
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 5: that they are a community problem. You know, a lot
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 5: of times people, in abortion care take possession of their protesters,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 5: they'll say like the clinic's protesters, right? They're not mine.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 5: I'm not owning those protesters. They belong to the community, right?
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 5: And the community somehow is allowing that dynamic to happen.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 5: And I think many of us could stop allowing that, right?
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 5: Could make it less sort of, oh, of course that
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 5: clinic over there has those protesters because that's expected. Why
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 5: is it expected? It shouldn't be, right? And so just
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 5: sort of calling on people to make those anti-abortion protesters
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 5: feel very uncomfortable.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen some colorful counter protests outside of a
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: clinic in Duluth, Minnesota, which I follow on TikTok. And
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: it is greatly amusing, greatly amusing. And our signs are
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: better than their signs regardless.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: Well, Amy Higstrom Miller, thank you so much for the
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: work you do, the work you continue to do. And
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: thank you for joining me today.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 5: You are welcome. Thanks so much for having me.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: All right, before we go, you're scared, you're outraged, you
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: want to take action, you want to do something. Vote
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: Save America has put together a great set of resources.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: If you go to votesaveamerica.com slash row, you can take
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: action to protect patients, protect abortion access. There are abortion
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: funds you can donate to. You can also support efforts
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: in the states where abortion is on the ballot in
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: 2022 and help elect pro-choice majorities that we need. in Congress,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: in the states, in local level, all over the place. Also,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: on Tuesday, June 28th, join Aaron and Strict Scrutiny's Leah
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: Littman and our own Shaniqua McClendon and our friends at
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: Sister District for a live virtual event after Roe Reproductive
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: and Civil Rights move to states where everyone will discuss
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: what this means, what comes next, and how you can
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: help fight back. You can RSVP for that at votesaveamerica.com
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: slash state power. Erin, thanks for joining us on.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: A tough day.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: I hope something good happens at some point.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 6: Speaking of good, there's a secret special January 6th committee
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 6: hearing tomorrow. Anyone want to wildly speculate on who the
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 6: secret guest is?
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: I heard it's Rudy Giuliani in the Masked Singer. Did
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: you see that, Rudy?
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: It's Mike Pence.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: I just want to just, the person who gave Rudy
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: Giuliani a very, very soft pat on the back and said,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: what's up, scumbag?
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: And got arrested. You're a patriot. Is that what he said? Yeah.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: I missed that clip.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: That's a funny quote.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 6: And then, did you see Rudy was like, if I
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 6: wasn't in such great shape, I would have fallen over?
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: Like, okay. You're in great shape? Drinking shape? What kind
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: of shape are we talking about here?
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: Shape like Droopy the dog.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: Well, we'll see you at the hearing.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: Our producer is Haley Muse, and Olivia Martinez is our
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: associate producer. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerrard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montuth. Our
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.