Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Journey to Bethlehem | Nikki Anders

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Journey to Bethlehem | Nikki Anders · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Friend, oh boy, do I have a good one for you today.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now, before I share the conversation with you, I want to tell you a little behind-the-scenes story because I want you to understand how much I truly value your listening time and your investment in this wholehearted community.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now, many books and things come across my desk to promote or to share with you, and they're wonderful invitations.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I, in the end, just want to share the things that I can wholeheartedly endorse and that I really like and enjoy myself.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be authentic with you.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: So when I got an email about a new Christmas musical coming to theaters with big names like Antonio Banderas, I knew I needed to do some investigation, right?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like that totally caught my eye.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: While it's a little strange for me, a Midwesterner, to watch a Christmas movie when it is 90 degrees outside, I did it.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I am delighted to say that this was a preview I will never forget.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I truly got tears and chills as I pushed up the volume on my computer screen to the max and let myself get immersed in the story.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: The Journey to Bethlehem Score and Production is truly a work of art and a film I plan on adding to my rotation every holiday season.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was also thrilled when I got word that I was matched to interview the co-writer of this film, Nikki Anders.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if I share with you the entire resume that I was sent, we'd be here an extra five minutes because her stunning career spans the gamut from recording artists to a songwriter to producer to a recording company and to even a music publishing company owner.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, just wait till you hear some of the highlights of her career.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: She has written and performed or produced for so many major motion pictures and television shows, including Glee, yes, the Fox television hit Glee, The Glee Project, High School Musical 3, Evan Almighty, Back to You, The Wedding Planner, Dawson's Creek.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, the Liz goes on and on, but I'm gonna stop because I want you to listen to our full conversation that truly captures Nikki's heart and passion for the Lord.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, I think her stories capture her work in a way that I don't think I can properly convey.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean it when I say that I was so delighted to have an incredible down-to-earth connection with this sister in Christ.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so impressed by how authentically Nikki shared with you.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: She's the real deal, and we've could have talked for hours.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: But for now, I'm grateful to share this holiday kickoff episode with you.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Amy Wicks, a wife, mom, author, certified coach, and host of this Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the 7th Annual Advent Series, where you'll hear about the practical rhythms for cultivating gratitude and celebration this holiday season.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's usher in this time of year with a ton of excitement because pride's birth is something that has changed everything for you and for me.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to share the powerful conversations with you about new Christmas musicals, finding peace in the chaos, sharing favorite holiday traditions, and even how to have healthier expectations this holiday season.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: I pray this wholehearted take on the Avon season blesses you richly, sweet friend.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Merry Christmas.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in a family who's loved theater and musicals, and I've attempted.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not ever going to go down any sort of vein that direction, but I have family who's very talented.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been fun for them to see the rise again of the musical.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I grew up watching all the old, you know, classics and musicals.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that was that was my family culture.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: I married a guy who it was not at all.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, what is this?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it can be so different if that wasn't part of your experience.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that it's the thing.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's definitely, um, especially these last, I don't know, has it been eight years or something?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the musicals are really on the rise.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And just love, love that musical is touching the spiritual and the biblical.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it just was so well done.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited that you're catching all the things that excite us.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to, I'm curious to know.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know you were going to be maybe asked ahead of time by Nicole, but if you knew anything about Enneagram, have you has it caught onto your circle of friends?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me what.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Enneagram.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the personality tests in general have definitely made their rounds, um, not only through my friend group, but my kids actually are interested in.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So fun.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, they my kids were both into the MBTI.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I, of course, the Enneagram has now has made their way, made its way into their lives.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, it's a great dinner conversation.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is a starter, like, okay, where do you land?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just diving into personality is such a fascinating topic.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's definitely something we're all interested in.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: For you, where have you landed, if you will, to use that same terminology, which I love.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's I'm always like, what are you trying on right now?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: What is your leading type?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I'm of the thought that I really think that we hold all nine types because we are made in the image of our creator who is all of those and more, right?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, but there's one that tends to lead the charge, lead the motivations, lead the desires.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's and and I do think that at any given point in time, I feel like there are stages to our lives.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always go back to one thing that my kids and I discuss a lot.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, before kids, I was this person.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And after kids, I'm this person.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and of course, you don't really, I'm sure it doesn't happen for everybody, but for I'm sure a lot of people that like big life-changing events can form different parts of your personality and really bring that to the forefront.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a number, is it number four?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Tends to be the individualist, yes, exactly.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I that's I think my lead horse.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I forget what my second, my my wing was.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think my I I'm not really sure.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: You have to do like a three or a five, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's the Yeah, good job.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's right.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: The number on either side.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: You got it.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it might have, I can't remember actually.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I do know my four though.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: I it makes a lot of sense.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think to your point, because I've coached so many women who have gone through the the motherhood years, but the career years and all the things before and after.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we've really discovered that there's this element and it's um, it's a kind of a fancy word, but called subtypes of each type.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that has really helped explain that passage when we felt like we've lost ourselves and and then at the same time rediscovered ourselves.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something about that that gives us a little bit more insight on what's going on because becoming a mom is amazing and wonderful, but it's also slightly traumatic.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so, right.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So there's there's all of that.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think while we have our dominant type, we have two other dominant in the um intelligence centers that kind of give explanation back to our history of family of origin, or maybe or even our career experience if it was really influential that helps give a more holistic picture of our life story because it's right, it's not linear, we're not one-dimensional.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's so many facets to who we are.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so fun.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh true.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's really fascinating.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you could just, well, there's so much time you can spend diving down into it and just swimming in it for a long time.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, I've loved having this resource as I'm raising teenagers.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Had the tool for a long time, but in particular, in these, um, as we're beginning to launch, I'm like, okay, this is really helpful because how I um kind of let out that rope or let out the, you know, the their boundaries are getting bigger, how that looks is so different and individualized.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's helping me not perfectly, but it's helping me get a little bit why there's a unique experience with each kid that ultimately keeps me in my knees.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's to me what's been helpful.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel like I am better at seeing those things in my kids than I am in my own self because you know, you have an objective.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can look upon them and see, okay, these are this is how you're made, and you know, what you may struggle with, what you are natural uh proclivities and things like that.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a good parenting tool, I think.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: I also think it's a great screenwriting and book writing tool for any sort of fiction work in particular, or even if we're doing historical and we want to try to help form a solid, like what would they do type of thing if we don't have information.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm all about it.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I like to dabble in um writing fiction here and there, and I definitely sneak it in.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's you know, it's been fun.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's such a great tool for all sorts of things, right?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's perfect character development.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what it is.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Especially if you wanting, if you're wanting to make sure you're not writing about yourself, or you know, you can't insert what you would do, right?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: You have to do a deep dive on the motivations of each character.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then even when you're trying to um digest a book fully, I know that my my older son enjoys going to you know whatever he reads, he likes to try to find out their personality types of each main character.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it helps kind of internalize more deeply what you're reading for if it's a you know fiction.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've done my fair share of Enneagram to the movies episodes, inviting my friends to analyze the characters because you know, you gotta have some fun.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So fun.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's been great.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like a fun book club situation, yes, we night club situation.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to talk to you specifically about your gift of music because I've shared here at the beginning of the conversation your incredible resume.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and it is paragraphs long.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: When you read it on paper, it's I abbreviated it.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing, it's amazing.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be ashamed.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like tricky.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: My um my dad just texted me and said, Hey, do you have a um a bio that somebody could look and see your resume, your your history basically?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Yeah, it's really outdated, but it just shows that we've been doing this a long time.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, it's partly just the nature of a life.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, very few people now hold the same position in life for their the length of their adulthood, right?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so um our my career has taken so many, even though it's been in entertainment, it's taken so many versions.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, you try everything, you do a lot of stuff because you have to you have to to make a living.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And thankfully, because it's always a challenge and you're self um self-employed, you have to become a skilled at a variety of things and just keep trying to keep creating.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um I have this my main skill, I say, is just uh perseverance.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's really like at the base of all things.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Say I have the my biggest talent is in not giving up.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nikki, I am so glad you brought this up because that was the same exact takeaway I had with looking at your resume was going, this girl has been in this in the long haul.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I have conversations with entrepreneurs all the time.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I coach coaches, and and that's a lot of my focus.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I have said, you know, like a realtor is all about location, location, location.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Entrepreneurship is about perseverance, perseverance, perseverance.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's never linear.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is a squiggly line, it is all over the place.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, to your point, like look at what you've been able to do.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure where you went in is not where you thought you were going to um end up, but here you are with such incredible projects.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I it's so um fascinating to always look back and okay, where did I think I would end up as an adult, like as a real adult.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I I my trajectory started as as a teenager when I thought I was gonna sing for, you know, be a recording artist.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I did achieve that goal um early on, but based on personality types, right?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: That plus, you know, different events, you realize this is actually not a good fit.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I just um I do obviously I still use my voice, I still sing, yeah, but being more in the background is definitely more my my comfort zone.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, as you are um, you know, exposed to the the industry, you just like I said, you keep creating and trying.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And my um passion for songwriting really started to take um front seat.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my passion for um at any given time, I know there was a point at which my passion was for young girls who were starting out in the industry, who are exposed to a studio recording studio environment with lots of darkness and men and you know, weird situations.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uncomfortable.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uncomfortable.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it was our my husband and and our my focus to really shepherd these young girls and make sure that they with a married couple were safe.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna, you know, do um make their life scary.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was something that led us to write a lot of songs for these, you know, like high school musical and all those things back in the day.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that opened the door to um the next thing, glee being a big thing.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was really something because that was the time of life where I was a young mom.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was pregnant during the first um season of glee, and yet I could still sing in the background and be as fat and pregnant as I wanted to be, and just you know, sit on a chair with my feet propped up and still sing.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't have to um put my makeup on and be in front of the camera.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that had to have been a relief.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but um just the experience of doing that and working on a show for that many years um gave us a lot of insight as to what works, what doesn't work, and a passion for our own musicals, you know.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: I also I'm very much I feel like our stories are similar in that I grew up watching the classics, you know, the Rogers and Hammerstein musicals are still like the top to me.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, that was always a passion of of mine.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm glad that I just can't believe that we get to do our own.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I hope that this stands the test of time.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: I hope the song stands the test of time, but I just am feeling fortunate that we got to do it at all.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's a massive undertaking.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and I I really hope that our friends, some of the takeaway here is that it really is about not hustle, but the perseverance and the staying with it and being willing to pivot and create a little bit differently or outside of the box.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I bet we could talk for hours about all of the stories and write the different steps of your journey to where you are.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: But um just beautiful, beautiful to hear a snippet of it.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm so curious and I'm like, oh, like where can I learn more?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Where can I find out more?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's this is so, so good.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I because I know that ultimately, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is just another one of those steps.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like this experience is is maybe a culmination at some level, but also just part of the bigger picture.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So what was it for you that led you to go, okay, this project here, this journey to Bethlehem, I think this has our name on it, or it's calling my name, if you will.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, being a lover of musicals, and when we started writing for Disney musicals and things like that back in the day, once we started getting a taste of what that was like, um, we definitely had a desire to do our own, right?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then Christmas came, I don't even remember.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a long time ago now, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe 15 years ago.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um we were at my parents' house in Iowa and we were discovering all these Christmas movies.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: But Christmas and music go hand in hand to me.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're singing all these great songs.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: When you want to get in the Christmas spirit, you put on a Christmas playlist, right?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so um that that came to mind.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then also looking at the Christmas movies that were available, I'm like, there's a lot of great Christmas movies, but none that are telling the traditional Christmas story, right?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: That was the the moment that Christmas where we decided we should write this.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: We actually had a different name for it at the time.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: But um, my husband worked on the treatment for the the film in general, and we started working on like little snippets of songs just in a living room, and I have the original little snippets, and only one of the 15 has made it to the final to the final movie.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, but isn't that the case?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, just hey, just having one is pretty cool because that's a long mess.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, that is what a journey, my goodness.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so when it's journey, the fact that it became journey to Bethlehem is almost um a metaphor for the journey that it took just to get to this point.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I bet.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: You bring up an important piece too, because to the creatives, to the fellow creator, you you may like walk away from having created something and it didn't have the outcome or didn't go where you thought it would, and you think, what a waste of time, or it could be tempted.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let this be that point right now.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it all builds onto something, it's all for something, right?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you just never know.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: That is so true, and that is such a piece of wisdom that I, you know, I wish could you you could impart to a lot of people is that when you're creating, I know there's a tendency to, well, if that didn't work, rip it up, throw it away.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: But there's you know, there's something that you learn from that experience, and sometimes there's even a portion of it that will make the final product, but you keep coming back to it, you keep tweaking, you keep building, you keep um giving that time and the distance of perspective too.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: You can look at it with fresh eyes and realize, oh, that's good, that maybe not so good.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all part of the process.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've only been in this specific field for seven years, and but already there are some things that have come full circle that, you know, years went by and I hung on to it for for whatever reason.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm also I'm a seven, I tend to like save all the pieces of paper and all the Google Docs.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I have like three different drives, you know, like it's it's a little bit out of control.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but to that point, there's been enough times already in just this short window regarding this specific um at stage of my career, whatever we're gonna call it, but it's it's going, oh, that that thread ended up developing and weaving into other things.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And but I needed life experience or I needed this this message to have gone before me, or whatever it is, or lived it out to to really make sure I believed it um before I spoke it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, so I again we could be talking about this for a while because there's so much there.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually you talked about doing music in your living room.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I gotta ask, any of your kids pick up the the musical desire or skills, or is this kind of it's your thing?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's that's really a tricky question.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: They both my boys love music and they're so moved and driven by it.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: They are musically talented, but the passion for them is more in listening.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they love movie scores, they love movie scores, they love classical music, and they use that a lot in their daily lives, just in their just walk, you know, they wear their AirPods and too many soldiers, but they wear them.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um but they um I think that you know, music, you have to have that passion, you have to practice all the time.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we're still on that element.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's called discipline, and I am yeah one of those like didn't have the discipline, but I'll tell you what, there's nothing like a good film score to keep me writing and creating content for my community.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I I like there's nothing better to me.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's the perfect day.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: You need to write and listen to my favorite scores.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's incredible.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it really is motivating, it can put you in a mood and it it does affect your your flow for sure.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, most all of it I think ultimately comes from the creator himself, but there are certain ones in particular that I'm like, you know, that just touches your spirit in a different way.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Which, and I'm not just saying this.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I the as my girls and I watched the the film and the listened, took in the score and the words.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we were getting goosebumps, like as in a good like mood, and already my oldest who were very similar.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, okay, where can I get this album?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to listen to that and listen to it, and she totally will.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I, you know, I just how do you, I mean, there's so much I want to ask about it, but maybe the some of the inspiration or some of the story behind and the creating of it again, going back to your living room many years ago, but there's so much in between that leads into it.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know that, you know, obviously we have the inspiration of this, the this Bible story itself, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: What actually is in the word.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we have, we know there are certain things that we need to um write about based on that story.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then this the screenplay that my husband wrote, um, you know, we then mapped out where should where are the emotional pinpoints, right?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Where does um the character feels a certain something?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: What needs to be conveyed emotionally?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's really like at the heart of music is this emotion.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it um I know it's it's a an element to musicals that I think is so important, just to have a song for a song's sake or just to have a song to move the story forward, is um, I think it's frivolous in you know, really quality musicals, but in the best ones, I think they use it to pinpoint an emotion and to highlight what that character is experiencing.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that was something that we would, you know, break down kind of the the main points in in the screenplay.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I know one in particular for me personally is the Mary's Mary's big ballad, which is Mother to a Savior and King, because that was something that is, you know, first of all, really tricky territory because you're trying to put yourself in the shoes of this young girl, and she happens to be the mother of God.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're already in like kind of walking on eggshells, but you have to really try and um get in in that place.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was a moment of honestly, just a lot of prayer for me.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um that I would feel, you know, get her story told through the song and what she was feeling at the moment.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just but part of it's creative, you know, what would I how would I have been feeling based on what we know about Mary and what's been written in the Bible and about Mary?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: How would I feel?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And given the context of the time in in history, you know, at zero BC, um the culture of the time, it's a you know, she was going through some scary territory and um test of faith and fear of shaming her family and um fear of believing herself, fear of believing in God, a lot of fear, right?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And she needed the only thing that could help her was to just like a cry out to God.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that particular song, um, it was a lot of divine inspiration, quite honestly.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that one really was um special.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I did tear up because I felt it.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I love Mary's song in Luke, and I think it's in chapter two, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Luke chapter two in the account.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you you went there.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that was bold and daring, but it captured you, it's incredible.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I felt transported to that um, the emotion of what she would have.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I was crying over to think, oh yeah, the mother of our savior.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like it, it just made it so much more real.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I I grew up as a pastor's kid.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: How many times have I heard it?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: How many times have I read the story?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: This was a whole new experience.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been so privileged to get to see other renditions, if you will, of some performed element of this story.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: But this this was like next level where that transportation did happen, where you're you're feeling what the character is feeling.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: So beautifully bad.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's like that's the best compliment I could get because that's what you want.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: You want people to really feel.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many reasons to make the movie, right?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you want people to feel things that maybe they've heard the story forever and ever.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's never really hit deeply.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, I don't know.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's um it's really good to hear that you experienced what we hope other people experience too.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you've done a good job.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I'm glad I can affirm it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I have no doubt you'll be hearing it a lot.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, I well, I hope so.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I can't wait.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait for my friends to get to experience what I've experienced.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um, okay, well, there's two more questions that I want to ask.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: One, just talk a minute about working with your husband on a project like this, because that can be like really terrible or really wonderful.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And yet it seems like God put you all together.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, perfect gift set, pretty great.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's funny because we met uh while we were touring on the road.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: So he was a bass player and I was in a band.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so we started our whole journey as a couple working together.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we've kind of done that, and that's something that works for us.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: But we do attend to it's because you're so comfortable with one another, you do fight more.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just something that we've learned that the more we're fighting, the better product we're getting.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, who else can you be that honest with if you don't like something?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you're, you know, because for us it's a collaborative experience.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: We are writing the song together.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um, if somebody says something and I don't like it, or I come up with a melody and nobody the other person doesn't like it, you're gonna be like hemming and hauling, oh you know, it was good, but and then there's all this wasted time.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Just dive in and say, I don't like it.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what ends up happening with us.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I bet it's like there's no holding back, no people pleasing.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's exactly what you think.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly it.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's tricky, it's tricky territory.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the older we get and the more we do it, we might be maybe a little harsher than we were at the beginning.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: But um I think it's it's getting good, it's getting good results.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the key, like once we're done, can we just go to the kitchen and and have dinner and put it to the side?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're just normal husband wife.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that would take some intentionality and discipline for sure to to table it.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's bad enough.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about work on date night and I have to, and my husband has nothing to do with uh most of the terms I use.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like he's a tree guy, he's a for, you know, he's in forestry.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's we're not, you know, talking the same language.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I can imagine that's exactly right.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a language, like each, you know, slice of life has its own little language.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's right.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, obviously, this energy of you all working together, the momentum has been a good thing and it's growing and getting better.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: So um just like in this last couple of I actually have a one other question too.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I lied.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I said two.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go for three.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: But um, what is maybe either a special behind the scene uh situation or just about the movie itself that you just you you want to talk about because hey, this is that that opportunity.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Behind the scenes, something interesting um is that this movie, for some reason, we were, I mean, here it is.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a Bible musical, right?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a hard sell for it was it has been and was a hard sell for a lot for people to grasp and think that it was worthy of doing it all.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we've gone through a lot of really close calls through the last 10 years.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's been with one, you know, go up to the line and and and then back again.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: But this time, um, what we recognized is that it's it's not a big budget movie, although, but what happened is that so many people came onto the film um and it was almost like out of our control.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a lot of things that happened that made the movie amazing that were not um typical for a first-time director like my husband, um, and a smaller budget.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: All these things were very um unique that we would able to be able to get Antonio Banderas, that we were able to get um the mix engineer, that we were able to get um certain production company and locations in Spain, um, beautiful locations where like uh Lawrence of Arabia was shot.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's some like unique, miraculous things that we recognize would not have happened just by our little tiny hands here.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we I think that that's been fun to see and kind of fun to watch.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: We feel like we're um we're just the hands and feet, right?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then when the movie was being shot in Spain, I think the biggest takeaway that was the biggest blessing to my husband was that um they, you know, people hadn't had an experience like that on set before.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was so enjoyable, it was warm, it was comfortable, and nobody was fighting, it was um uh safe.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: So all these things that people walked away saying this is the best film experience I've ever had.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we just felt like it was in the right spirit that it was done.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's incredible, Nikki.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: That is it's a but God kind of story.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then you had alluded to creating that safe place, if you will, for young girls in early in their career.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you've obviously you and your husband have carried that mantle to have that transported on set in a foreign country, right?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, out of element and um and obviously to create a different experience than what others had gone through before.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: That is that is just so cool.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's that's worth celebrating.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm yeah, celebrate the the other, the different victories.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: This once nobody sees, yeah.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that's a a seven, it feels like always gets labeled as the party or really easy to celebrate.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I I kind of am the like, hey, no, actually, sometimes it's really hard because when our outcome, and this partly is culture thing, right?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: If the outcome doesn't match our expectations, we tend to avoid celebration or skip over it or feel undeserving.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been really had this message on my heart with the community is to say, no, celebration is actually a discipline and celebration is an invitation that there isn't an outcome that actually is connected to it.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's just doing the thing and then seeing what happens with it and celebrating doing the thing, or to your point, right?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: All the little miracles along the way that you can go back.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, at least how it works for me is going, I at least did what the Lord asked me to do and he was in it.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever happens, happens, because that's the most important thing.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Huge wisdom and advice there.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Celebration is a is a discipline.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we're, I think we're supposed to do that, even like when it's not the expectation.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't meet the expectation.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's fake.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: And take that for myself if you don't mind.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, please.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think about how that has to be in the the culture and the industry you're in.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that that'd be not typical at all to be able to lean into that.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: So take it, run with it.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can, you know, let that be coming on this weekend, in fact.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, awesome, awesome.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, my last little question is at when I do, I do an advent season every year.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And this is, I think, so it'll be seven years.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is this, I think this is my seventh advent season of the podcast.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: So fun.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I like to always ask similar questions of each person who gets to guest during that.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the question this year is what is your favorite ornament or Christmas decoration that you have to have it out.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it's just not Christmas.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell you, it's not one exactly, but it's a collection of ornaments that my mom made when we were little kids growing up.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And she made them, you know, she is a great seamstress and she would make these cute little ornaments and they were on a car tree when I was a little girl, all through the time I was growing up.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I moved out, she gave me a little shoebox full of these ornaments.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they're, I mean, that to me, it's just that's Christmas because Christmas is so nostalgic in it in itself, and it just brings back all the Christmases past, you know, and the feels of when you were little.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's Christmas to me.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Nikki, what a great answer.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm visualizing whatever it is, like very similar to all those.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they're just simple and cute.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, precious.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: There, those kind of things even smell like something that you know is just it takes us right back.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's right.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Nikki, this has been an honor and a joy and so much fun.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that you've had fun as well.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing with my friends and thank you for doing the work because I believe it's gonna bring a lot of joy and uh like depth of joy and inspiration to so many.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I appreciate you having me today.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: And also just I love that you just said that the depth of joy, because that's something I keep saying, and people are like, what does that mean?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm glad that you get it because you just said it.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because it is a different kind of joy.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Wasn't that wonderful?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was so surprised and delighted.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, goodness, we could have talked about so many things.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: I really had to bite my tongue a few times to not go off on this rabbit trail and that rapid trail.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think you can understand.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: But Journey to Bethlehem is the movie to go see and support in theater starting November 10th.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're listening to this the day it comes out, it's this Friday.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Please go get your tickets and get this holiday season kicked off in style and support such a beautiful work of art.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: I promise you're not gonna regret it.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: And while I know Nikki is probably not a major social media fan, if you go say hi and thank her for coming on this podcast, it would mean a lot to me and I believe it would mean a lot to her.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, as we dive into this advent season, I'm wondering if you thought of someone who would like this movie and this conversation.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you did, would you please pass this episode along?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: I truly am praying for these episodes to reach as many friends as possible.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate you sharing.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're truly the best.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now, next week we're continuing these Advent series conversations with an episode called Wholehearted Advent.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna give the scoop on the history of Advent just a little bit of details about it if you're unfamiliar with that term or what that is.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then I've invited Jen Ludwig, who has written a beautiful devotional all about embracing the chaos of the season and maybe rediscovering Christmas in any way.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was a delightful time, a delightful conversation, and perfect as we continue to prepare our hearts for this amazing season.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: All right, until next time, friend, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for your simply whole hearted vibe.