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Episode 03 - The Mental Load Nobody Prepared Us For · Messy Minded Mama

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Messy Minded Mama, a podcast for moms who look managed but might feel a bit messy on the inside.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Kate.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Jen.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we are here creating space for real talk about motherhood, mental health, and the invisible load so many women carry.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Messy Minded Mama.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Last episode, we talked about what we thought we'd be good at as moms and the expectations that we experienced and where those came from.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're gonna talk about that part between expectation and reality of the mental load that we carry that can sometimes feel crushing.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about complaining, although that can be easy to do sometimes with the mental load, but it's about telling the truth so that it's normalized the weight that we feel as moms.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think anyone prepared me for just how loud my brain would get after becoming a mom.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't really the baby cries, but just the thoughts that I was carrying.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: The constant running list, the worry, even guilt.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the thought of maybe I'm just doing this all wrong.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Even on the good days.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I remember thinking, is this just me?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or does no one talk about this part out loud?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's the part I really thought something was wrong with me because nobody warned me how heavy motherhood feels and how loud it is, right?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's the mental, the emotional.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Even when I love my kids so much, it still was loud and felt so hard.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Same.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it's really like the invisible stuff that I'm carrying in the middle of the night.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Waking up with like this list of worries or these questions I had about this experience.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was feeling it all so deeply.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the part at the end of the day that was really depleting and just kind of knocked me out at times.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the never being able to turn it off.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's the 47 browser tabs open in your brain that you're cycling through.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it is exhausting.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: It leads to sleep deprivation and that feeling of being exhausted, and then the guilt because you feel exhausted.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jen, when did you when did you realize that the mental load existed, that it was a thing?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think for me, I was carrying the mental load for probably way longer than I realized.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I have really distinct memories, like eight months in after, you know, my son, he was doing like so great at that point in time, so many things were going right.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then he started having the breath holding spells, which it can be a whole nother episode to kind of yeah, so terrifying.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And when that started, I started noticing this worry that I was carrying all the time.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that was something that nobody saw.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: That was something that I didn't probably talk enough about, and that was something that just weighed on me heavily all the time.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I had all these reassurances that he is fine, everything's okay, but internally I was thinking about how can I control this, how can I change this, how can I stop these from happening?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's all these thoughts that I just couldn't shut off.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so thinking back, the mental load really started way earlier than that for me.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: There were so many things in those early days, so many things that I was carrying that I didn't necessarily name or realize was like a heavy mental load on me, maybe until that point.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that just opened up this whole new thing of like, okay, I have to talk about this, I have to get it out, and I can't just carry this on my own.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: So was it a good moment for some realizations, but a tough moment in wow, I've probably been carrying a lot more than I even realized.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this was just kind of like icing on the cake at that point in time, like it was just too much overtime that I needed to kind of sort through.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that Olympic level logistics that you carry, especially when you're carrying your own anxiety of balancing what needs to be coordinated, my own feelings about the situation, how can I minimize this for my kids, what needs to be done, and how does that actually happen?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Not just the knowing it needs to happen, but the behind the scenes of how it happened.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think that adds so much of that weight to all of the things that we're carrying.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when things feel a little out of control, right?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think it just gets even worse in those moments of okay, I have an idea of what I need to be doing.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have an idea of like how to manage this, but when it's something like that that is out of control, then you feel a little helpless in those moments, right?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that can just like add on to the weight I think that we carry.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that weight part can feel so crushing and overwhelming at times when you're trying to figure out how to navigate those browser tabs that are sitting open and the behind the scenes part.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the browser tabs.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Someday we'll find a solution on like how to close those.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: I have my fingers, my toes, eyes, everything I can cross-cross it because it is so much.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: How about for you?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's a moment where you kind of realize that mental load was there?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think it really started for me when my oldest girl started preschool.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: The mental load was before it existed.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I had great supports in our nana that watched her, and my family, and my partner.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then when she went to preschool, a whole new layer was added.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: The spirit days, the picture days, the class parties.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized just how much I was actually navigating and responsible for.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And not that my husband doesn't participate, but we balance things very differently.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wrote a blog about it's called I'm the plot twist, I'm the messy one.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because I am.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it talks about the mental load for us and how we balance that in our family.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the plot twist, I'm the messy one all started because I saw a video on TikTok where a girl was meeting with her girlfriends and they were saying, Oh my gosh, he doesn't do this, or he doesn't do the laundry, he doesn't do the cooking.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the woman in the TikTok video was saying, Oh girl, that's terrible.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, girl, how could he?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then she walks away and she goes, Oh my god, I'm the husband.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I have never resonated with something more in my life because I am the messy one.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: My husband does the dishes, my husband does the laundry, he does a lot of the cleaning.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes I sit there and I'm like, What am I actually doing?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't do a lot of the household stuff.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: But when I think about all the things I mentally have to manage, the birthday parties, the preschool or elementary school, spirit days, no school days, the shoes, right?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: When what fits, what doesn't fit, the clothes, the doctor's appointments, um, who's gonna actually eat what?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: How many berries do we have in the house?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you have a toddler, the amount of berries you go through is insanity.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: The variety of berries, right?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: There has to be a variety.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: There has to be a variety or apples.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sawyer, my youngest, she's very into apples right now, which I love.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's a nice change from berries, a little cheaper than berries, right?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: But it's all of those pieces that I'm constantly having to do mental math.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I became a social worker, so I didn't have to do math.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: But then to do the mental math, do we have this, do we not have this?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's the noticing, the remembering, the anticipating that just feels so heavy for me.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what an exhaustive list you just went through of the things, again, that you're carrying that you're not even saying out loud, right?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're not necessarily going to Taylor and saying, Well, did you, you know, think about all those things that I was just planning on?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the things that you're carrying internally and trying to figure out to keep your household going for the responsibilities that, you know, right or wrong that you have taken on and that you are managing every day.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's so much to this.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think in both of our stories of like we're we're carrying this weight, we kind of we feel it obviously internally, but I also go back to like nobody warned me about this.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: No one told you about the berries.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: No one told me about all the things that would keep me up at night, the things that would cross my mind when I'm trying to multitask during the day and and get everything accomplished that I need to.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think a lot of this does go back to me too to how are we not talking about this more?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: How did nobody warn me that this would be something that would exist, whether I learned it and realized it eight months in or not?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: It felt heavy and it was there.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And everything you're talking about, it really is just an exhaustive list.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: It is, and I think looking at that list, those are all pieces of motherhood, but we're whole people outside of being a mom to you.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: We are you and I both are working moms and we have other responsibilities outside of just our jobs and motherhood, but also a responsibility to ourselves as a human.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is one portion of the mental load that is carried.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And for moms that aren't working, the stay-at-home moms, they have a whole separate list of things that they have to carry for just the bulk of the household.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: For me, that's like sacred work.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to say it.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Moms do that.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's amazing to me.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And working moms have to balance the work, the motherhood, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a balancing action no matter what style of motherhood or season of motherhood you're in, but the amount of things we have to balance as a human as its whole, and then you add the motherhood piece in.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't know how we do it.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful that we are able to do it.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we talk about like the space.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think the being able to focus on the things that we really want to can be so freeing at times, but it is just one more thing, right?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's one more thing we're adding on.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I I do think there's like this miracle that's happening when we're really able to sit down and say, okay, I can manage all these things and I'm I'm doing it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't have to understand necessarily how, but I think sitting back and realizing, and I think like a pat on the back sometimes for like everything that we are able to carry because it is a lot.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're listening, mamas, you are strong and you've got this.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, and you deserve your own pat on the back today.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we just talked about all the things that we're carrying and the weight that that puts on us, the responsibility.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: How does that actually show up for you in real life?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: For me, the mental load really just shows up as never really fully being shut off.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like even on my calm days, I am it, there's just all this activity that's still going on.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it just doesn't shut off.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm constantly kind of scanning the room around me.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm constantly thinking about is everyone around me okay?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Am I forgetting something?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: What do I have on my to-do list next?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm always kind of jumping ahead or being worried about something.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think even for me, when I'm resting, I'm still working.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: My brain is still on.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And even when I'm at sleep at night, I feel like my kids, they are sleeping through the night, mostly every night right now.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so jealous, Jen.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so jealous.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Not every night, but most nights.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that a lot of people aren't in that boat, but I am, but I still wake up tired.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I know I've touched slightly on the anxiety I carry in this space before, but this coupled with the mental load can really feel awe-consuming at times.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's really trying to get my thoughts and my feelings of my anxiety in check.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that for me looks like asking very simple questions.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is everyone around me okay?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Am I forgetting anything?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And just being able to go through that little bit allows me to feel somewhat lighter, which is nice.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been this learning experience of what amps me up, what mental load am I carrying?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: What anxiety am I carrying with that?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then how do I pay attention to it and kind of move past it?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hearing a lot of hyper-vigilance, right?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like always being aware of what is happening and people's needs, which is a real thing and something you really take on when you become responsible for the lives of other tiny humans.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really think the things that you just named of asking the simple questions, reframing, telling yourself that you're safe, are all good ways to try to help turn down that volume that can be so loud.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love this phrase, let it be, and then let it go.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, it is kind of that noticing, right?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's acknowledging that something exists.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's letting myself sit with that, even like very simply and not taking too much time.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then the let it go part isn't always move past it forever, but it's at least setting it aside.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Embrace your inner Elsa.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, totally.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let it go.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think that it's just kind of getting in the practice of noticing.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: I am for me, it's like I can be on my way to Trader Joe's.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Trader Joe's girl, like that.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's my era right now.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll be thinking, I need to be somewhere else, or something else is going on.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do I even have time for this?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when I start to notice that, then I can pause, right?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: The noticing is the hardest part.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I've gotten into really good practice of noticing what's happening, giving myself that little bit of time to sit with it.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it really does calm me.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: So Trader Joe's parking lot, I'm sitting there by myself saying, Hey Jen, what's going on for you?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is everyone okay?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have anywhere else you need to be?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And most of the time, nothing is urgent, no one really needs me in that second, and I can calm down, feel lighter just by noticing.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what helps me lessen all that noise, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like make it quieter and not feel like I'm carrying so much with mental health and anxiety at the same time.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if you see Jen in Trader Joe's parking lot, say mind your business or say hi.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: But she might be having a moment.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Having a moment until I get out of the car and then say hi.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's the safest bet.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: What about for you?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: What emotions kind of came up for you, whether expected or unexpected?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think for me, the mental load goes to overwhelm, which then comes out in snappiness uh with my kids, with the overstimulation.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think the sounds, I talked about this before, the sounds, the sign, the lights, all of those things lead to overstimulation for me.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: But then when you add in all of the mental load, the thoughts that are cycling through my head, I need to do this, I need to do that, this needs to be done, can lead to some resentment.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes in my relationship.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure I even said last episode that if he wasn't there to cook, I would starve.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because he does so much.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes when I'm thinking about all of the pieces that I'm trying to navigate and hold together this family of the clothes, the schools, the logistics, I can start to be snappy with him because I lose sight of the things that he is doing.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have tried to build a system for us where it's not 50-50.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I there's a lot of talk about you know marriage and and division of labor and partnerships being 50-50.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh for me that creates a tit for tat a keeping score.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay when it's well, I do this, I I monitor the spirit days, and he says, Well, I did the dishes.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Those two things aren't actually equal tasks, yeah, right?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's having that space to have the conversation of this is where I'm at and struggling and I need some help.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And for him to say, I'm tired of doing the dishes, could you I won't ever wash dishes, those are my wedding vows, I don't have to, but I'll help put away laundry or something.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but to have those those open conversations, those dialogues help reduce those feelings of resentment and the snappiness, and sometimes even the guilt, because I do feel guilty that I'm not the one cooking or doing the laundry or the dishes, whatever.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm so exhausted.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I'm so exhausted because I'm carrying all these other pieces.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm trying to navigate the guilt, the snappiness, the resentment that builds, and finding a way to have those check-ins.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we have really open conversations, which took a while to build the comfortability to do that.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I will we'll just say, like, hey, how are you feeling about how things are going?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Or is there an area that you need some support in?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or hey, I really appreciated that you did this.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I noticed this.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Prime example this morning, my husband almost always asks me to look at our bank account or check the weather, even if his phone is in his hand.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: It drives just your job.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: It just drives me insane.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll even talk about like, haha, I'm like the secretary or whatever.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And this morning he actually said, Can you check the weather?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wait, my phone's right here.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Which would have never been a thing had I not voiced at some point, hey, when you ask, I'm already trying to navigate these things and your phone's in your hand.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something so small that he did, but I made sure to say, like, hey, I appreciate that.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So those really honest check-ins, I'm pretty sure Taylor wishes I was less honest sometimes.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't sugarcoat super well, but that has helped us reduce those feelings of snappiness or resentment when that mental load starts to build and then the overwhelm builds with it.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, those check-ins are so crucial.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about going into parenthood, and after you've been with your partner for it doesn't really matter how much time, you just have this different dynamic and this different way of living, and maybe don't need to do the check-ins on all the things you were describing, right?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't have to tell him that you're not the secretary and you don't have to have those conversations, probably pre-kids.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: But after you do have kids and and your brain is getting pulled in multiple different directions every single moment of the day, the mental load is heavy that you're carrying.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think the only way to really get on the same page and truly survive in these moments is to be checking in with your partner and also to say out loud, like our dynamic has changed a little bit.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: We are just now having to ask each other who's cleaning the bottles, or did you do this, or did you do that?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're having to just like have these exchanges that we never once had to have.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was very just like conversational and fun.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's like, well, now you're having to check in on all these to-dos.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't feel fun at times.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So checking in and being able to maybe like share that load in a different way and then not have to have those conversations all the time because you did it once a week and now you're on the same page, right?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: It can be so impactful.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely resonate with just like the check-ins, the ones we've created in our life look way different than they did when we were first together, first dating, first married.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't have to navigate school spirit days over not have to children's birthday parties that require a gift and a card and uh transportation.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: All of those pieces are now extra weight that both partners take on.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I feel like uh motherhood, you in motherhood you you have a sense of ownership to it a bit more.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I should be the one that carries this.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So let's try to remove some of the shoulds, right?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So Jen, you just said, let's remove the shoulds.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, like once you see the shoulds, you can't unsee them.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're sneaky and they create so much extra pressure.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: But then the question becomes, now what?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: How do we actually loosen some of this mental load we just talked about, all the things that we should be doing or the things we're carrying without adding another thing we should, and for those of you that can't see me, I'm doing air quotes, that we should be doing.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just trying to be honest with ourselves and name those shoulds out loud.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me, I think that I should be attending every birthday party with my kids instead of like sharing that load.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think that every meal should be planned out ahead of time, like at least a day or two in advance.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think about screen time in my house and that I should be limiting it better or at least being more present and more engaged with my kids, and why am I leaning on the screens at times?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the laundry.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the laundry.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I should keep up with the laundry better, and it shouldn't live out of a tote half the time.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: It should actually be folded and put away.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Those are my shoulds, and I think trying to just really get rid of these loud thoughts, and just because a thought sounds authoritative, it does not.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Not mean that it's true.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: That is so strong and so true.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally want to write that down and put it on a sticky note so that I have it because it really highlights that internal battle that we feel.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Those shoulds are loud.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: The inner critic is loud.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: The shoulds are loud.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times they go hand in hand, and those shoulds are exhausting and they make everything feel heavier than it already is.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you just said that.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: So let's pivot a moment.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take a step into how do we actually turn the volume down on the shoulds and all of the things that we're carrying without giving us one more thing we have to do.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: So what are some things that you either do with your clients or what are some things that you practice yourself that help you turn that volume down?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think one thing that can be super helpful is trying just to swap out those I shoulds for what's really true right now.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't mean you have to think about that in the forever changing moment or what ideally you need to be doing, but it's really putting you in the moment of what's going on for me right now, and how can I then gently give permission to remove some of those shoulds.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: So thinking it even back for some of my examples, it's like, well, the laundry is sitting there in a tote because I'm focused on what is a priority for me now.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: The truth for me is that the laundry does not matter.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: The guilt of having it unfolded might still sit, but and the I should get it done might sit there.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: But if I can really say what I'm doing right now is more important, it helps uh alleviate some of that pressure that you might be carrying in that moment.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, one example for me of kind of how I can really sit with what truly is going on that I think is helpful, does that bring up anything for you?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: What would what would be helpful for you in those moments?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love what you said about what's true right now and what you need.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think about that reframe from I should be doing this to what's true is I'm tired, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm tired right now.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm gonna give myself that space.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I love what you said about deciding what actually matters.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's the big one for me, is that I have to get really, really honest about what I'm carrying and what I need to carry and what I could either delegate or get rid of.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes for me, writing it out, all the things I'm carrying in that moment of brain dump, if you will.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: But then looking at, okay, this is something I have to carry.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is something maybe my partner could do, and letting go of that control a little bit, which is really hard as someone that likes to have control, but giving that up and realizing not everything has to be done by me, and then maybe even a third column of things that I could just get rid of.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so really tying it back to I'm really big on values, okay, but tying it back to what are my values, what is important, and maybe it is letting my desk stay messy because it always is messy anyway, but letting my desk stay messy or letting my husband take something over and dropping this idea that I have to be perfect or have the perfectly aesthetic home and really focusing on the things that I carry as so important.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm slowly learning that not everything can be important because when I make everything a priority, when I make everything so important, everything becomes exhausting.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, and not fun anymore.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're stripping joy out of our days when we are truly caring so much.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you brought up values.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Values work is something that's near and dear to me as well.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And when I think about a personal value to me of connection, right, any time that I am letting these shoulds kind of take over and distract me from what's really important, it doesn't feel good.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's the opposite of really being connected into what is bringing that joy and what is meaningful in those moments.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I love values as well.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think sticking with that and having maybe a few takeaways for our listeners today, I think as an invitation to name your truth to actually remove those shoulds by saying what is true for you right now, what values maybe do you have that you want to feel more rooted in that can allow you to feel maybe more at peace with yeah, what you're having to let go of on a day-to-day basis or what you want to let go of, and maybe that permission just to be able to again let go of some of those shoulds and reframe it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that permission slip part is so important to be kind to ourselves and so stop asking what what should right?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: We want to get rid of that should.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: What should a good mom do versus what's the kindest option to myself right now when I'm feeling overwhelmed, when I'm feeling exhausted?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And this is your permission slip to ask yourself that and to rest.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to earn rest, you get to just rest if that's what you need, to ask for help and to just sit in the part of not being perfect, and that and that is okay.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I love all of those takeaways and use this as your permission slip.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can say, Jen and Kate said, Yeah, I have to be kind to myself.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one more reminder with that is being okay with recognizing that this isn't maybe an ongoing solution, right?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: That this is something that you're gonna probably need to come back to.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: There, we all know that we have kind of what we'll consider the hard seasons, maybe throughout parenting and this journey.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so being okay with saying this is the fix that I need today, this is something I'm gonna put in my toolbox, if you will, and I'm gonna carry with me going forward.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Come back to it as you need it, reassess as needed, make changes to it if you need to.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think just recognizing that it's a fix that can work today and something that you can always come back to or change in the future if you need to.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Loosen the shoulds, make space for ourselves.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And loosening the shoulds shouldn't really be about lowering the bar, it's just about taking your foot off a pressure that was just never meant to be there in the first place.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: So before we go, we want to say this out loud because this is kind of a heavy topic sometimes.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if motherhood feels heavier than you expected, we want you to hear this loud and clear.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: You are not doing it wrong.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: You are just carrying a lot, and some of what you're carrying isn't even visible.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's that invisible part that lives in your head and the noticing, the remembering, and the anticipating.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And all of that work counts even if no one sees it or you're talking about it.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you do not have to fix yourself, you do not have to be more grateful, and you don't have to handle it better.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're allowed to loosen the shoulds and carry only what is actually yours.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: So if this episode hit something for you, we would love to hear it.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: What did nobody prepare you for?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can DM us, you can send us a voice note, or you can simply just sit with it.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: All of that works for us.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: We would love to get some messages for people.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: How does this sit with you?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: So next week, episodes, which we're actually gonna start calling sessions, because saying episodes is really hard for us.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: But next week on Thursdays, we're talking about the m's or the rage and the emotions that come up for us when we are trying to balance all of these things, when we are overstimulated, because that deserves its own space.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: So as we sign off for our session today, um, our affirmation or quote that we're going to leave you with is kindness towards yourself lightens the load faster than discipline ever will.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here today.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here with us today.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: If something in this episode resonated, we're really glad you listened.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Messy minded or not, you're not alone in this, and you don't have to have it all figured out.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to stay connected, you can follow Messy Minded Mama wherever you listen to podcasts.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: And follow us on Instagram at messy.minded.mama.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be back to connect again soon.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here.